[DeTomaso] Third fan / cooling problems at idle.

Sun Aug 10 20:12:43 EDT 2008

This is a new brass radiator I got from one of the vendors for about $600 a year or so ago.  I'm afraid I don't know what type it is.

Chris

> From: hemipanter at hemipanter.se
> To: chrisvkimball at msn.com; asajay at asajay.com; detomaso at realbig.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Third fan / cooling problems at idle.
> Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 11:50:08 +0200
> 
> Hi Chris, you are talking original radiator? In that case the top tube is 
> the outlet of the radiator.
> This is a doubble pass radiator to speed up the water within the radiator by 
> deviding it in to
> two sections creating twice the length and half the flow area.  I you look 
> at he lower half ,
> which is the inlet section, as beeing the  inlet section of a single 
> crossflow radiator, the inlet is on
> TOP of this section. The water is then passed to the other section via the 
> other side thank and
> has its oulet on the BOTTOM of this section. In other word, the same as a 
> regular crossflow
> radiator, the inlet at the top  and outlet on bottom.
> Reversing the connection hoses will therefore work against the "cooler 
> warter is heavier" princip.
> The fact that they are close together is not the point here.
> 
> When speaking higher waterspeed is good, this is exactly what the factory 
> did with this radiator.
> Goran
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Christopher Kimball" <chrisvkimball at msn.com>
> To: "Asa Jay Laughton" <asajay at asajay.com>; "Pantera List Serve" 
> <detomaso at realbig.com>
> Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 12:34 AM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Third fan / cooling problems at idle.
> 
> 
> >
> > Well, I crawled under the car today, and guess what--it appears the inlet 
> > on the water pump (on the driver's side) goes to the top inlet on the 
> > radiator.  The two, inlet and outlet, on the radiator are very close 
> > together, however, and I'm wondering how a few inches could make a big 
> > difference.  One is literally less than an inch or so above the other.
> >
> > In other words, do I have to drain all the coolant, switch the hoses and 
> > go through the entire burping routine again?  That would mean I'd also 
> > have to turn on the shut-off valves I inserted in the heater hoses.
> >
> > Tell me it ain't so!  But if it is, tell me that, too.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> >
> > Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 08:52:19 -0700
> > From: asajay at asajay.com
> > To: chrisvkimball at msn.com
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Third fan / cooling problems at idle.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > The water pump outlets are on the back, mated directly to the engine
> > block.  It's hard to see in this photo:
> >
> > http://www.351c.info/gallery2/v/asajay/351C_Build_2001/blockandheads.jpg.html
> >
> > but the two square openings on either side of the light area (timing
> > cover area), are where the coolant exits the water pump and goes
> > directly  into the block.  Then, it all comes out the large hole at the
> > top, near the front of the engine, near the passenger side head, which
> > you can see in the same photo.
> >
> >
> >
> > The small tube on the water pump is strictly for the heater.  One hose
> > connects there, the other to the tube you can see in the photo on the
> > left near the passenger head again.
> >
> >
> >
> > Asa Jay
> >
> > Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
> >
> > & Shelley Marie
> > Spokane, WA
> >
> > 1973 Pantera L 5533
> > [ASASCAT]
> >
> > ******************************
> > http://www.asajay.com
> > http://www.351c.info
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Christopher Kimball wrote:
> >
> >  Perfect!  It's interesting I can't see the outflow of the
> > water pump--unless it's that much smaller pipe I see on top of the
> > water pump.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks again,
> >
> >
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 22:16:51 -0700
> >
> > From: asajay at asajay.com
> >
> > To: chrisvkimball at msn.com
> >
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Third fan / cooling problems at idle.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Here are two photos of the 351C and you can clearly see the aluminum
> > water pump mounted on the front:
> >
> > 
> > http://www.351c.info/gallery2/v/asajay/351C_Build_2001/water_pump.jpg.html
> >
> > 
> > http://www.351c.info/gallery2/v/asajay/351C_Build_2001/enginedone.jpg.html
> >
> >
> >
> > Note the large pipe-like opening on the drivers side of the engine, on
> > the water pump pointing down about 45 degrees.  That is where the water
> > goes INTO the pump and the pump then circulates it through the engine
> > and heads.  The water flow EXITS the -block- at the very top, next to
> > the distributor.  On a Pantera, this is attached to a large pipe that
> > wraps around the front of the engine and connects to the pressure tank.
> >
> >
> >
> > You want the bottom connection on the radiator, to go to the water pump.
> >
> >
> >
> > Hope that's clear.
> >
> > Asa Jay
> >
> > :)
> >
> >  Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
> >
> > & Shelley Marie
> > Spokane, WA
> >
> > 1973 Pantera L 5533
> > [ASASCAT]
> >
> > ******************************
> > http://www.asajay.com
> > http://www.351c.info
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Christopher Kimball wrote:
> >
> >    Finally going to check this tomorrow (before another car
> > show)--did you say the inlet to the water pump is the lower one,
> > closest to the ground?  Where is the outlet, so I don't get them
> > confused?  And I assume there's just one outlet on the  bottom of the
> > radiator.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> >
> >
> > Chris (still a neophyte!)
> >
> >
> >
> >    Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 07:19:16 -0700
> >
> > From: asajay at asajay.com
> >
> > To: chrisvkimball at msn.com
> >
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Third fan / cooling problems at idle.
> >
> >
> >
> > Make sure the bottom fitting goes to the inlet on the water pump.
> >
> >
> >
> > Asa Jay
> >
> >    Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
> >
> > & Shelley Marie
> > Spokane, WA
> >
> > 1973 Pantera L 5533
> > [ASASCAT]
> >
> > ******************************
> > http://www.asajay.com
> > http://www.351c.info
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Christopher Kimball wrote:
> >
> >      The radiator I replaced was stock, as far as I know, and
> > when
> > I replaced it I simply hooked up the hoses the way they were when I
> > replaced them.  If I'm checking it out, what should I look for?
> >
> >
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> >
> >> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 19:45:04 -0700
> >
> >> From: asajay at asajay.com
> >
> >> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> >
> >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Third fan / cooling problems at idle.
> >
> >>
> >
> >> Which might actually beg the question, are your radiator hoses
> > hooked to
> >
> >> the correct locations on the radiator? After all, if you pump hot
> > fluid
> >
> >> in on the bottom and are trying to take it back off from the top,
> > it
> >
> >> might make a huge difference in cooling. This is something I keep
> >
> >> meaning to check on my Pantera as well.
> >
> >>
> >
> >> Asa Jay
> >
> >>
> >
> >> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
> >
> >>
> >
> >> & Shelley Marie
> >
> >> Spokane, WA
> >
> >>
> >
> >> 1973 Pantera L 5533
> >
> >> [ASASCAT]
> >
> >>
> >
> >> ******************************
> >
> >> http://www.asajay.com
> >
> >> http://www.351c.info
> >
> >>
> >
> >>
> >
> >>
> >
> >>
> >
> >> Christopher Kimball wrote:
> >
> >> > Did you see some of the fans available on the forum? Anywhere
> > from $20 to free! Get 'em while they're hot...er, cool...
> >
> >> >
> >
> >> > An interesting thing happened to me on the way to the Forum,
> >
> >> >
> >
> >> > Actually, it was on the way to Centralia, about an hour's
> > drive. I noticed my little fan LEDs weren't on, and usually at least
> > the first fan runs all the time, after a few minutes of the engine
> > turning. The first LED flickered a bit, then went off. I was concerned,
> > but at 70 on the freeway, the temp never got over 190. I had a feeling
> > when I slowed, this might change!
> >
> >> >
> >
> >> > Sure enough, as soon as I got off the freeway, the gauge
> > started climbing, even though I was averaging about 20 mph in town. The
> > temp got quickly to about 240, so I pulled over. It turned out I had
> > accidentally knocked one of the wires off the fuse-box tab while
> > changing another fuse last night. Once I hooked it back on, all three
> > fans immediately turned on and began cooling the radiator again. I
> > started the car and within 5 minutes both my gauges (the stock one and
> > the new one I ran from the block) went back down to 190 and stayed
> > there.
> >
> >> >
> >
> >> > Remember, my car has a new radiator, all new hoses AND new
> > cooling tubes.
> >
> >> >
> >
> >> > So much for the idea that Panteras can run cool without any
> > fans...(let's see, who was it that postulated that ugly rumor??? You
> > know who you are...!)
> >
> >> >
> >
> >> > Chris
> >
> >> > #3846
> >
> >> >
> >
> >> >
> >
> >> >
> >
> >> >
> >
> >> >> From: erpike at cs.com
> >
> >> >> To: chrisvkimball at msn.com
> >
> >> >> CC: detomaso at realbig.com
> >
> >> >> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Third fan / cooling problems at
> > idle.
> >
> >> >> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 13:31:09 -0400
> >
> >> >>
> >
> >> >> Chris:
> >
> >> >>
> >
> >> >> Thanks. That is good insight for my issue which is more
> > piece of mind than a
> >
> >> >> real concern. I probably over react when the temp gage
> > goes up just because
> >
> >> >> it's a Pantera. My thoughts were to up grade the two
> > original(?) fans on my
> >
> >> >> 74 or go to a third. I am leaning toward the third fan. I
> > have to sit still
> >
> >> >> for a good 15 to 20 min for the temp to go up. Thanks
> > again.
> >
> >> >>
> >
> >> >>
> >
> >> >> Thanks,
> >
> >> >> Ed
> >
> >> >> Ed....-----Original Message-----
> >
> >> >> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
> > [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]
> > On
> >
> >> >> Behalf Of Christopher Kimball
> >
> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 1:14 PM
> >
> >> >> To: Kjetil Finne; erpike at cs.com;
> >      detomaso at realbig.com
> >
> >> >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Third fan / cooling problems at
> > idle.
> >
> >> >>
> >
> >> >>
> >
> >> >> My guess would be the amount of air curculation being
> > forced through the
> >
> >> >> radiator at higher speeds would more than compensate for
> > the higher engine
> >
> >> >> heat, plus the coolant would be pumped faster through the
> > engine, too.
> >
> >> >>
> >
> >> >> I had replace all my hoses and cooling tubes before
> > replacing the radiator
> >
> >> >> and adding the fan, and it still overheated at idle, but
> > never while
> >
> >> >> traveling faster than about 40.
> >
> >> >>
> >
> >> >> The increased flow solution would relate to the new
> > radiator, which, as I
> >
> >> >> mentioned, was added at the same time as the fan. I guess
> > I could
> >
> >> >> disconnect the third fan to see if only the new radiator
> > solved the problem.
> >
> >> >> I'll probably get to that after I replace the speedometer
> > calbe, fix the
> >
> >> >> cruise control replace the bushings, replace the left
> > axle, rebuild the
> >
> >> >> motor and upgrade the fuse box...
> >
> >> >>
> >
> >> >> Chris
> >
> >> >> #3846> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 18:58:35 +0200> From:
> >      kjetfinn at online.no> To:
> >
> >> >> ERPIKE at cs.com;
> >      detomaso at realbig.com>
> > Subject: Re:
> > [DeTomaso] Third fan /
> >
> >> >> cooling problems at idle.> > What I have found is
> > that if you have cooling
> >
> >> >> problems at idle it is > most likely caused by
> > insufficient coolant
> >
> >> >> circulation, not by not > having enough air over the
> > radiator.> The heat
> >
> >> >> generated by the engine should be less at idle than at
> > higher > speeds. (I
> >
> >> >> guess?)> > Kjetil> > ERPIKE at cs.com wrote:>
> >> Chris:> > I noticed you have 3
> >
> >> >> fans. Did the 3rd fan help with cooling when you have to
> > sit and ilde alot?
> >
> >> >>
> >
> >> >>>>>> Ed...> >> > Christopher
> > Kimball <chrisvkimball at msn.com>
> > wrote:> >> >
> >
> >> >>>>>>
> >
> >> >>>>> What I did was to tap into the wires at each
> > fan motor (I have
> >
> >> >>>>>
> >
> >> >> three--much to Mad Dawg's chagrin!) using the positive
> > and negative leads
> >
> >> >> right before they went into the fan motors and ran the
> > thee pairs of wire to
> >
> >> >> the dash. I drilled three little holes above the
> > headlight switch and
> >
> >> >> mounted three different colored LEDs (which I bought at
> > Radio Shack--made
> >
> >> >> especially for 12 volts) so now I know exactly when each
> > fan is operating.>
> >
> >> >>
> >
> >> >>>>>>> The LEDs must be hooked up correctly
> > with the positive side to the
> >
> >> >>>>>>>
> >
> >> >> positive wire and negative to negative.> >>>
> >>> Chris> >>> >> #3846> >>> >>
> >
> >> >>
> >
> >> >>>>>> From: MikeLDrew at aol.com>
> >>>>
> > Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 00:36:38 -0400>
> >
> >> >>>>>>
> >
> >> >>>>> To: adin at frontier.net;
> >      detomaso at realbig.com>
> >>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso]
> >
> >> >>>>>
> >
> >> >> indicator light> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> In a message dated 7/19/08 17 37 44,
> >
> >> >> adin at frontier.net
> > writes:> >>>>
> >>>>> >>> > >>>> I need to have a
> > little
> >
> >> >> light to let me know when the cooling fans >
> >>>>> come on (ford, but not
> >
> >> >> pantera) . . . it seems one could just take 12v >
> >>>>> off the fan to a
> >
> >> >> light. It also seems this is a fire waiting to >
> >>>>> happen - do I need to
> >
> >> >> take the power off the relay???> >>>>>
> >>>>> Help please . . .> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >
> >> >> electronically challenged I remain,>
> >>>>>> >>>> > >>> Dave,>
> >>>>> >>> De
> >
> >> >> Tomaso was way ahead of you--there is a fan indicator
> > light sitting right >
> >
> >> >>
> >
> >> >>>>> there at the bottom of your speedometer!>
> >>>>> >>>
> >
> >> >>>>>
> >
> >> >> That light is amber in color, and moron Lincoln Mercury
> > customers
> >
> >> >> interpreted > >>> that as a WARNING light and
> > this drew complaints. So after
> >
> >> >> early 1972, it > >>> was left
> > unconnected.> >>>> >>> It is a very simple
> >
> >> >> matter to string a wire from the output side of your #2
> >> >>> fan relay back
> >
> >> >> to this light. Voila! :>)> >>>>
> >>>> Actually, if you string it from the
> >
> >> >> output side, where 12V flows to the fan > >>>
> > motor, then the spinning fan
> >
> >> >> might cause the light to glow when it is spinning, >
> >>>> but not powered.
> >
> >> >> Come to think of it, it's probably better to string the
> >> >>> wire from the
> >
> >> >> input to the fan relay, where the relay gets its "turn on
> > the fan" > >>>
> >
> >> >> signal from the thermoswitch in the radiator.>
> >>>>> >>> Mike> >>>>
> >>>>> >>>
> >
> >> >> **************> >>> Get fantasy football with
> > free live scoring. Sign up for
> >
> >> >>
> >
> >> >>>>>> FanHouse Fantasy Football today.>
> >>>> > >>>
> >
> >> >>>>>>
> >
> >> >>
> > (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020)>
> >>>>
> >
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