[DeTomaso] Aviaid 351C oil pan / true capacity?

Sun Aug 10 17:33:26 EDT 2008

Yeah, that's what the womenfolk say.
This is my second dipstick, though (first one broke where it inserts into 
the block).
Both were overlong?

Well, with everything apart I should be able to follow these instructions 
and start from scratch.

Dan F. Courtney

Excalibur Commercial Real Estate Services
La Jolla, CA

Phone (858) 551-5455
Fax (858) 551-5456

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Taphorn" <jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com>
To: "Dan Courtney" <dfcex at excaliburre.com>; <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
Cc: <detomaso at realbig.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aviaid 351C oil pan / true capacity?

> Dan
>
> I'd hypothesize that you are blessed with a longer dip stick!
>
> I would add two more quarts and remark your dipstick at that level.  Then 
> add one more and etch it again.  Then a 10th quart and mark it full.  I 
> use small numeric punches to denote the new marks on the dip stick.
>
> That is the approach I have taken.
>
> JT
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Dan Courtney" <dfcex at pacbell.net>
> To: "John Taphorn" <jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com>; <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
> Cc: <detomaso at realbig.com>
> Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 3:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aviaid 351C oil pan / true capacity?
>
>
>> John,
>>
>> Thank for the input.
>> One question, why can I only get 6 quarts of new oil into the engine 
>> before the dipstick shows full, after doing my best to properly drain all 
>> the old oil?
>>
>> Dan
>> Dan F. Courtney
>>
>>
>> Excalibur Commercial Real Estate Services
>> La Jolla, CA
>>
>> Phone (858) 551-5455
>> Fax (858) 551-5456
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "John Taphorn" <jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com>
>> To: "Dan Courtney" <dfcex at excaliburre.com>; <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
>> Cc: <detomaso at realbig.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 12:47 PM
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aviaid 351C oil pan / true capacity?
>>
>>
>>> I'll offer another opinion and methodology.  11 quarts!!!!
>>>
>>> With both the Hall and Aviad "advertised 10 quart pans, I measured the 
>>> oil pan capacity with the pans off the engine.  I felt the critical 
>>> measurement was how much oil capacity exists to the bottom of the 
>>> windage tray.  In my mind, this was the critical point of separation of 
>>> fluid from the rotating crank assembly.  I just do not see the relevance 
>>> of the stock measurements on the dip stick in light of the stock oil pan 
>>> not having a windage tray to minimize sloshing of oil into the crank. 
>>> I'll admit it is a guide if you haven't done your homework - but one can 
>>> do better.
>>>
>>> On the Hall Pan, the oil fill measurement is a little more work as the 
>>> windage tray mounts to the main caps (or somewhere in that vicinity - it 
>>> has been a while).  So I measured the distance from the oil pan rail on 
>>> the block to the windage tray and transferred that measurement to a 
>>> depth in the pan measured from the oil pan's rail toward the pan's 
>>> bottom.  You could subtract an 1/8" for the pan gasket.
>>>
>>> The Aviad is a bit more straight forward as the windage tray mounts in 
>>> the pan and you merely need fill it to see when it fluid meets the 
>>> bottom of the windage tray.
>>>
>>> My recollection was that both trays took at least 11 to 12 quarts to 
>>> cover the windage tray.
>>>
>>> Of course, we recognize that when an engine is operating there is a 
>>> least two quarts in the filter lines and assorted collection points like 
>>> heads (probably more if an HV pump) providing an even greater reduction 
>>> of risk that aggressive acceleration and braking would spill over the 
>>> windage tray.
>>>
>>> Thus, my research supports the 10 quart capacities of both the Aviad and 
>>> Hall 10 quart pans.  I nominate the persistently championed 8 quart 
>>> capacity limit as Pantera Myth.
>>>
>>> J, feeling righteous today, T
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Dan Courtney" <dfcex at pacbell.net>
>>> To: <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
>>> Cc: <detomaso at realbig.com>
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 2:03 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aviaid 351C oil pan / true capacity?
>>>
>>>
>>>> Thanks, Mike, I'll follow these steps (and order the Summit dipstick as 
>>>> well).
>>>> It seems like this "ten quart" Aviad only holds about 6 or 7 quarts, 
>>>> but it's hard to tell as I may not be getting all the old oil out of 
>>>> the system during these oil changes (even though I drain it hot, jack 
>>>> the P up in front, then back, etc).
>>>> Now I can tell for sure.
>>>>
>>>> Dan
>>>> Dan F. Courtney
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Excalibur Commercial Real Estate Services
>>>> La Jolla, CA
>>>>
>>>> Phone (858) 551-5455
>>>> Fax (858) 551-5456
>>>>
>>>>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>  From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
>>>>  To: dfcex at pacbell.net ; detomaso at realbig.com
>>>>  Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 11:41 AM
>>>>  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aviaid 351C oil pan / true capacity?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  In a message dated 8/10/08 11 13 23, dfcex at pacbell.net writes:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    I've been using an Aviad for several years and I've never been able 
>>>> to tell the true capacity, but I'm sure it's nowhere near the 
>>>> advertised 10 gallons.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  >>>If you've been putting 10 *gallons* of oil in your motors, I think 
>>>> we may have found a clue as to why your motors don't hold together. :>)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    I've also had questions about the accuracy of my dip-stick fill 
>>>> mark.
>>>>    I saw some Shelby guys at the track filling their pan with water 
>>>> quart by quart so they could determine their capacity.
>>>>    Since my pan is off I'm going to try this. Does anyone know what 
>>>> height to measure to?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  >>>Simple to determine.  With the pan removed, insert the dipstick 
>>>> (ensuring that it's the proper length to begin with, 38 inches for a 
>>>> stock dipstick with stock tube) into the tube and see how far the 
>>>> 'full' line protrudes below the level of the bottom of the block.  It 
>>>> should be below the rotating assembly.
>>>>
>>>>  If you want to perform a sanity check, buy a cheap 351C dipstick 
>>>> assembly from Summit:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=PRO%2D66618&N=700+115&autoview=sku
>>>>
>>>>  $14.95
>>>>
>>>>  then remove the De Tomaso unit, and install the standard one to use as 
>>>> a measuring gauge.  Hopefully the 'full' marks would be at the same 
>>>> distance from the bottom of the block.
>>>>
>>>>  Then measure a corresponding distance down from the top of the pan 
>>>> (accounting for the thickness of the gasket), and that should be the 
>>>> 'full' level in the pan.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    >I'll then fill the engine with this amount, add a quart for the 
>>>> filter, and re-mark my dipstick.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  >>>If your dipstick is the proper length, there's no reason to re-mark 
>>>> it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    Actually, I doubt if this would work because an empty pan does not 
>>>> account for the displacement of the mains, crank, etc, right?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  >>>The rotating assembly is supposed to be above the level of the oil 
>>>> in the pan when the engine is running.  Remember that there is at least 
>>>> two quarts of oil circulating around the filter and the engine when the 
>>>> engine is running, so the static level is probably an inch or two 
>>>> higher than the level when the engine is running.  If you overfill the 
>>>> pan, the rotating assembly will whip the oil into a froth, and the oil 
>>>> will create drag and cost power; being 'worked' by the rotating 
>>>> assembly might also increase oil temperatures.
>>>>
>>>>  Mike
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  **************
>>>>  Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read 
>>>> reviews on AOL Autos.
>>>>
>>>> (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 
>>>>  )
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>>
>
>
> 