[DeTomaso] Aviaid 351C oil pan / true capacity?
John Taphorn
jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
Sun Aug 10 16:26:08 EDT 2008
Dan
I'd hypothesize that you are blessed with a longer dip stick!
I would add two more quarts and remark your dipstick at that level. Then
add one more and etch it again. Then a 10th quart and mark it full. I use
small numeric punches to denote the new marks on the dip stick.
That is the approach I have taken.
JT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Courtney" <dfcex at pacbell.net>
To: "John Taphorn" <jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com>; <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
Cc: <detomaso at realbig.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 3:14 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aviaid 351C oil pan / true capacity?
> John,
>
> Thank for the input.
> One question, why can I only get 6 quarts of new oil into the engine
> before the dipstick shows full, after doing my best to properly drain all
> the old oil?
>
> Dan
> Dan F. Courtney
>
>
> Excalibur Commercial Real Estate Services
> La Jolla, CA
>
> Phone (858) 551-5455
> Fax (858) 551-5456
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Taphorn" <jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com>
> To: "Dan Courtney" <dfcex at excaliburre.com>; <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
> Cc: <detomaso at realbig.com>
> Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 12:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aviaid 351C oil pan / true capacity?
>
>
>> I'll offer another opinion and methodology. 11 quarts!!!!
>>
>> With both the Hall and Aviad "advertised 10 quart pans, I measured the
>> oil pan capacity with the pans off the engine. I felt the critical
>> measurement was how much oil capacity exists to the bottom of the windage
>> tray. In my mind, this was the critical point of separation of fluid
>> from the rotating crank assembly. I just do not see the relevance of the
>> stock measurements on the dip stick in light of the stock oil pan not
>> having a windage tray to minimize sloshing of oil into the crank. I'll
>> admit it is a guide if you haven't done your homework - but one can do
>> better.
>>
>> On the Hall Pan, the oil fill measurement is a little more work as the
>> windage tray mounts to the main caps (or somewhere in that vicinity - it
>> has been a while). So I measured the distance from the oil pan rail on
>> the block to the windage tray and transferred that measurement to a depth
>> in the pan measured from the oil pan's rail toward the pan's bottom. You
>> could subtract an 1/8" for the pan gasket.
>>
>> The Aviad is a bit more straight forward as the windage tray mounts in
>> the pan and you merely need fill it to see when it fluid meets the bottom
>> of the windage tray.
>>
>> My recollection was that both trays took at least 11 to 12 quarts to
>> cover the windage tray.
>>
>> Of course, we recognize that when an engine is operating there is a least
>> two quarts in the filter lines and assorted collection points like heads
>> (probably more if an HV pump) providing an even greater reduction of risk
>> that aggressive acceleration and braking would spill over the windage
>> tray.
>>
>> Thus, my research supports the 10 quart capacities of both the Aviad and
>> Hall 10 quart pans. I nominate the persistently championed 8 quart
>> capacity limit as Pantera Myth.
>>
>> J, feeling righteous today, T
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Dan Courtney" <dfcex at pacbell.net>
>> To: <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
>> Cc: <detomaso at realbig.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 2:03 PM
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aviaid 351C oil pan / true capacity?
>>
>>
>>> Thanks, Mike, I'll follow these steps (and order the Summit dipstick as
>>> well).
>>> It seems like this "ten quart" Aviad only holds about 6 or 7 quarts, but
>>> it's hard to tell as I may not be getting all the old oil out of the
>>> system during these oil changes (even though I drain it hot, jack the P
>>> up in front, then back, etc).
>>> Now I can tell for sure.
>>>
>>> Dan
>>> Dan F. Courtney
>>>
>>>
>>> Excalibur Commercial Real Estate Services
>>> La Jolla, CA
>>>
>>> Phone (858) 551-5455
>>> Fax (858) 551-5456
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
>>> To: dfcex at pacbell.net ; detomaso at realbig.com
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 11:41 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aviaid 351C oil pan / true capacity?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In a message dated 8/10/08 11 13 23, dfcex at pacbell.net writes:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I've been using an Aviad for several years and I've never been able
>>> to tell the true capacity, but I'm sure it's nowhere near the advertised
>>> 10 gallons.
>>>
>>>
>>> >>>If you've been putting 10 *gallons* of oil in your motors, I think
>>> we may have found a clue as to why your motors don't hold together. :>)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I've also had questions about the accuracy of my dip-stick fill mark.
>>> I saw some Shelby guys at the track filling their pan with water
>>> quart by quart so they could determine their capacity.
>>> Since my pan is off I'm going to try this. Does anyone know what
>>> height to measure to?
>>>
>>>
>>> >>>Simple to determine. With the pan removed, insert the dipstick
>>> (ensuring that it's the proper length to begin with, 38 inches for a
>>> stock dipstick with stock tube) into the tube and see how far the 'full'
>>> line protrudes below the level of the bottom of the block. It should be
>>> below the rotating assembly.
>>>
>>> If you want to perform a sanity check, buy a cheap 351C dipstick
>>> assembly from Summit:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=PRO%2D66618&N=700+115&autoview=sku
>>>
>>> $14.95
>>>
>>> then remove the De Tomaso unit, and install the standard one to use as
>>> a measuring gauge. Hopefully the 'full' marks would be at the same
>>> distance from the bottom of the block.
>>>
>>> Then measure a corresponding distance down from the top of the pan
>>> (accounting for the thickness of the gasket), and that should be the
>>> 'full' level in the pan.
>>>
>>>
>>> >I'll then fill the engine with this amount, add a quart for the
>>> filter, and re-mark my dipstick.
>>>
>>>
>>> >>>If your dipstick is the proper length, there's no reason to re-mark
>>> it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Actually, I doubt if this would work because an empty pan does not
>>> account for the displacement of the mains, crank, etc, right?
>>>
>>>
>>> >>>The rotating assembly is supposed to be above the level of the oil
>>> in the pan when the engine is running. Remember that there is at least
>>> two quarts of oil circulating around the filter and the engine when the
>>> engine is running, so the static level is probably an inch or two higher
>>> than the level when the engine is running. If you overfill the pan, the
>>> rotating assembly will whip the oil into a froth, and the oil will
>>> create drag and cost power; being 'worked' by the rotating assembly
>>> might also increase oil temperatures.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> **************
>>> Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read
>>> reviews on AOL Autos.
>>>
>>> (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017
>>> )
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>>
>>
>>
>
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