[DeTomaso] Aviaid 351C oil pan / true capacity?

John Taphorn jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
Sun Aug 10 16:26:08 EDT 2008


Dan

I'd hypothesize that you are blessed with a longer dip stick!

I would add two more quarts and remark your dipstick at that level.  Then 
add one more and etch it again.  Then a 10th quart and mark it full.  I use 
small numeric punches to denote the new marks on the dip stick.

That is the approach I have taken.

JT
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dan Courtney" <dfcex at pacbell.net>
To: "John Taphorn" <jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com>; <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
Cc: <detomaso at realbig.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 3:14 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aviaid 351C oil pan / true capacity?


> John,
>
> Thank for the input.
> One question, why can I only get 6 quarts of new oil into the engine 
> before the dipstick shows full, after doing my best to properly drain all 
> the old oil?
>
> Dan
> Dan F. Courtney
>
>
> Excalibur Commercial Real Estate Services
> La Jolla, CA
>
> Phone (858) 551-5455
> Fax (858) 551-5456
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "John Taphorn" <jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com>
> To: "Dan Courtney" <dfcex at excaliburre.com>; <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
> Cc: <detomaso at realbig.com>
> Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 12:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aviaid 351C oil pan / true capacity?
>
>
>> I'll offer another opinion and methodology.  11 quarts!!!!
>>
>> With both the Hall and Aviad "advertised 10 quart pans, I measured the 
>> oil pan capacity with the pans off the engine.  I felt the critical 
>> measurement was how much oil capacity exists to the bottom of the windage 
>> tray.  In my mind, this was the critical point of separation of fluid 
>> from the rotating crank assembly.  I just do not see the relevance of the 
>> stock measurements on the dip stick in light of the stock oil pan not 
>> having a windage tray to minimize sloshing of oil into the crank.  I'll 
>> admit it is a guide if you haven't done your homework - but one can do 
>> better.
>>
>> On the Hall Pan, the oil fill measurement is a little more work as the 
>> windage tray mounts to the main caps (or somewhere in that vicinity - it 
>> has been a while).  So I measured the distance from the oil pan rail on 
>> the block to the windage tray and transferred that measurement to a depth 
>> in the pan measured from the oil pan's rail toward the pan's bottom.  You 
>> could subtract an 1/8" for the pan gasket.
>>
>> The Aviad is a bit more straight forward as the windage tray mounts in 
>> the pan and you merely need fill it to see when it fluid meets the bottom 
>> of the windage tray.
>>
>> My recollection was that both trays took at least 11 to 12 quarts to 
>> cover the windage tray.
>>
>> Of course, we recognize that when an engine is operating there is a least 
>> two quarts in the filter lines and assorted collection points like heads 
>> (probably more if an HV pump) providing an even greater reduction of risk 
>> that aggressive acceleration and braking would spill over the windage 
>> tray.
>>
>> Thus, my research supports the 10 quart capacities of both the Aviad and 
>> Hall 10 quart pans.  I nominate the persistently championed 8 quart 
>> capacity limit as Pantera Myth.
>>
>> J, feeling righteous today, T
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Dan Courtney" <dfcex at pacbell.net>
>> To: <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
>> Cc: <detomaso at realbig.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 2:03 PM
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aviaid 351C oil pan / true capacity?
>>
>>
>>> Thanks, Mike, I'll follow these steps (and order the Summit dipstick as 
>>> well).
>>> It seems like this "ten quart" Aviad only holds about 6 or 7 quarts, but 
>>> it's hard to tell as I may not be getting all the old oil out of the 
>>> system during these oil changes (even though I drain it hot, jack the P 
>>> up in front, then back, etc).
>>> Now I can tell for sure.
>>>
>>> Dan
>>> Dan F. Courtney
>>>
>>>
>>> Excalibur Commercial Real Estate Services
>>> La Jolla, CA
>>>
>>> Phone (858) 551-5455
>>> Fax (858) 551-5456
>>>
>>>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>  From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
>>>  To: dfcex at pacbell.net ; detomaso at realbig.com
>>>  Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 11:41 AM
>>>  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aviaid 351C oil pan / true capacity?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  In a message dated 8/10/08 11 13 23, dfcex at pacbell.net writes:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    I've been using an Aviad for several years and I've never been able 
>>> to tell the true capacity, but I'm sure it's nowhere near the advertised 
>>> 10 gallons.
>>>
>>>
>>>  >>>If you've been putting 10 *gallons* of oil in your motors, I think 
>>> we may have found a clue as to why your motors don't hold together. :>)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    I've also had questions about the accuracy of my dip-stick fill mark.
>>>    I saw some Shelby guys at the track filling their pan with water 
>>> quart by quart so they could determine their capacity.
>>>    Since my pan is off I'm going to try this. Does anyone know what 
>>> height to measure to?
>>>
>>>
>>>  >>>Simple to determine.  With the pan removed, insert the dipstick 
>>> (ensuring that it's the proper length to begin with, 38 inches for a 
>>> stock dipstick with stock tube) into the tube and see how far the 'full' 
>>> line protrudes below the level of the bottom of the block.  It should be 
>>> below the rotating assembly.
>>>
>>>  If you want to perform a sanity check, buy a cheap 351C dipstick 
>>> assembly from Summit:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=PRO%2D66618&N=700+115&autoview=sku
>>>
>>>  $14.95
>>>
>>>  then remove the De Tomaso unit, and install the standard one to use as 
>>> a measuring gauge.  Hopefully the 'full' marks would be at the same 
>>> distance from the bottom of the block.
>>>
>>>  Then measure a corresponding distance down from the top of the pan 
>>> (accounting for the thickness of the gasket), and that should be the 
>>> 'full' level in the pan.
>>>
>>>
>>>    >I'll then fill the engine with this amount, add a quart for the 
>>> filter, and re-mark my dipstick.
>>>
>>>
>>>  >>>If your dipstick is the proper length, there's no reason to re-mark 
>>> it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    Actually, I doubt if this would work because an empty pan does not 
>>> account for the displacement of the mains, crank, etc, right?
>>>
>>>
>>>  >>>The rotating assembly is supposed to be above the level of the oil 
>>> in the pan when the engine is running.  Remember that there is at least 
>>> two quarts of oil circulating around the filter and the engine when the 
>>> engine is running, so the static level is probably an inch or two higher 
>>> than the level when the engine is running.  If you overfill the pan, the 
>>> rotating assembly will whip the oil into a froth, and the oil will 
>>> create drag and cost power; being 'worked' by the rotating assembly 
>>> might also increase oil temperatures.
>>>
>>>  Mike
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  **************
>>>  Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read 
>>> reviews on AOL Autos.
>>>
>>> (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 
>>>  )
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>>
>>
>>
> 




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