[DeTomaso] Aviaid 351C oil pan / true capacity?

Sun Aug 10 15:47:18 EDT 2008

I'll offer another opinion and methodology.  11 quarts!!!!

With both the Hall and Aviad "advertised 10 quart pans, I measured the oil 
pan capacity with the pans off the engine.  I felt the critical measurement 
was how much oil capacity exists to the bottom of the windage tray.  In my 
mind, this was the critical point of separation of fluid from the rotating 
crank assembly.  I just do not see the relevance of the stock measurements 
on the dip stick in light of the stock oil pan not having a windage tray to 
minimize sloshing of oil into the crank.  I'll admit it is a guide if you 
haven't done your homework - but one can do better.

On the Hall Pan, the oil fill measurement is a little more work as the 
windage tray mounts to the main caps (or somewhere in that vicinity - it has 
been a while).  So I measured the distance from the oil pan rail on the 
block to the windage tray and transferred that measurement to a depth in the 
pan measured from the oil pan's rail toward the pan's bottom.  You could 
subtract an 1/8" for the pan gasket.

The Aviad is a bit more straight forward as the windage tray mounts in the 
pan and you merely need fill it to see when it fluid meets the bottom of the 
windage tray.

My recollection was that both trays took at least 11 to 12 quarts to cover 
the windage tray.

Of course, we recognize that when an engine is operating there is a least 
two quarts in the filter lines and assorted collection points like heads 
(probably more if an HV pump) providing an even greater reduction of risk 
that aggressive acceleration and braking would spill over the windage tray.

Thus, my research supports the 10 quart capacities of both the Aviad and 
Hall 10 quart pans.  I nominate the persistently championed 8 quart capacity 
limit as Pantera Myth.

J, feeling righteous today, T

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dan Courtney" <dfcex at pacbell.net>
To: <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
Cc: <detomaso at realbig.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aviaid 351C oil pan / true capacity?

> Thanks, Mike, I'll follow these steps (and order the Summit dipstick as 
> well).
> It seems like this "ten quart" Aviad only holds about 6 or 7 quarts, but 
> it's hard to tell as I may not be getting all the old oil out of the 
> system during these oil changes (even though I drain it hot, jack the P up 
> in front, then back, etc).
> Now I can tell for sure.
>
> Dan
> Dan F. Courtney
>
>
> Excalibur Commercial Real Estate Services
> La Jolla, CA
>
> Phone (858) 551-5455
> Fax (858) 551-5456
>
>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
>  To: dfcex at pacbell.net ; detomaso at realbig.com
>  Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 11:41 AM
>  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aviaid 351C oil pan / true capacity?
>
>
>
>  In a message dated 8/10/08 11 13 23, dfcex at pacbell.net writes:
>
>
>
>    I've been using an Aviad for several years and I've never been able to 
> tell the true capacity, but I'm sure it's nowhere near the advertised 10 
> gallons.
>
>
>  >>>If you've been putting 10 *gallons* of oil in your motors, I think we 
> may have found a clue as to why your motors don't hold together. :>)
>
>
>
>    I've also had questions about the accuracy of my dip-stick fill mark.
>    I saw some Shelby guys at the track filling their pan with water quart 
> by quart so they could determine their capacity.
>    Since my pan is off I'm going to try this. Does anyone know what height 
> to measure to?
>
>
>  >>>Simple to determine.  With the pan removed, insert the dipstick 
> (ensuring that it's the proper length to begin with, 38 inches for a stock 
> dipstick with stock tube) into the tube and see how far the 'full' line 
> protrudes below the level of the bottom of the block.  It should be below 
> the rotating assembly.
>
>  If you want to perform a sanity check, buy a cheap 351C dipstick assembly 
> from Summit:
>
> 
> http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=PRO%2D66618&N=700+115&autoview=sku
>
>  $14.95
>
>  then remove the De Tomaso unit, and install the standard one to use as a 
> measuring gauge.  Hopefully the 'full' marks would be at the same distance 
> from the bottom of the block.
>
>  Then measure a corresponding distance down from the top of the pan 
> (accounting for the thickness of the gasket), and that should be the 
> 'full' level in the pan.
>
>
>    >I'll then fill the engine with this amount, add a quart for the 
> filter, and re-mark my dipstick.
>
>
>  >>>If your dipstick is the proper length, there's no reason to re-mark 
> it.
>
>
>
>    Actually, I doubt if this would work because an empty pan does not 
> account for the displacement of the mains, crank, etc, right?
>
>
>  >>>The rotating assembly is supposed to be above the level of the oil in 
> the pan when the engine is running.  Remember that there is at least two 
> quarts of oil circulating around the filter and the engine when the engine 
> is running, so the static level is probably an inch or two higher than the 
> level when the engine is running.  If you overfill the pan, the rotating 
> assembly will whip the oil into a froth, and the oil will create drag and 
> cost power; being 'worked' by the rotating assembly might also increase 
> oil temperatures.
>
>  Mike
>
>
>
>
>  **************
>  Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read 
> reviews on AOL Autos.
> 
> (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 
>  )
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