[DeTomaso] Third fan / cooling problems at idle.
Göran Malmberg
hemipanter at hemipanter.se
Sun Aug 10 05:50:08 EDT 2008
Hi Chris, you are talking original radiator? In that case the top tube is
the outlet of the radiator.
This is a doubble pass radiator to speed up the water within the radiator by
deviding it in to
two sections creating twice the length and half the flow area. I you look
at he lower half ,
which is the inlet section, as beeing the inlet section of a single
crossflow radiator, the inlet is on
TOP of this section. The water is then passed to the other section via the
other side thank and
has its oulet on the BOTTOM of this section. In other word, the same as a
regular crossflow
radiator, the inlet at the top and outlet on bottom.
Reversing the connection hoses will therefore work against the "cooler
warter is heavier" princip.
The fact that they are close together is not the point here.
When speaking higher waterspeed is good, this is exactly what the factory
did with this radiator.
Goran
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Kimball" <chrisvkimball at msn.com>
To: "Asa Jay Laughton" <asajay at asajay.com>; "Pantera List Serve"
<detomaso at realbig.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 12:34 AM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Third fan / cooling problems at idle.
>
> Well, I crawled under the car today, and guess what--it appears the inlet
> on the water pump (on the driver's side) goes to the top inlet on the
> radiator. The two, inlet and outlet, on the radiator are very close
> together, however, and I'm wondering how a few inches could make a big
> difference. One is literally less than an inch or so above the other.
>
> In other words, do I have to drain all the coolant, switch the hoses and
> go through the entire burping routine again? That would mean I'd also
> have to turn on the shut-off valves I inserted in the heater hoses.
>
> Tell me it ain't so! But if it is, tell me that, too.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 08:52:19 -0700
> From: asajay at asajay.com
> To: chrisvkimball at msn.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Third fan / cooling problems at idle.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The water pump outlets are on the back, mated directly to the engine
> block. It's hard to see in this photo:
>
> http://www.351c.info/gallery2/v/asajay/351C_Build_2001/blockandheads.jpg.html
>
> but the two square openings on either side of the light area (timing
> cover area), are where the coolant exits the water pump and goes
> directly into the block. Then, it all comes out the large hole at the
> top, near the front of the engine, near the passenger side head, which
> you can see in the same photo.
>
>
>
> The small tube on the water pump is strictly for the heater. One hose
> connects there, the other to the tube you can see in the photo on the
> left near the passenger head again.
>
>
>
> Asa Jay
>
> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
>
> & Shelley Marie
> Spokane, WA
>
> 1973 Pantera L 5533
> [ASASCAT]
>
> ******************************
> http://www.asajay.com
> http://www.351c.info
>
>
>
>
>
> Christopher Kimball wrote:
>
> Perfect! It's interesting I can't see the outflow of the
> water pump--unless it's that much smaller pipe I see on top of the
> water pump.
>
>
>
> Thanks again,
>
>
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 22:16:51 -0700
>
> From: asajay at asajay.com
>
> To: chrisvkimball at msn.com
>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Third fan / cooling problems at idle.
>
>
>
>
>
> Here are two photos of the 351C and you can clearly see the aluminum
> water pump mounted on the front:
>
>
> http://www.351c.info/gallery2/v/asajay/351C_Build_2001/water_pump.jpg.html
>
>
> http://www.351c.info/gallery2/v/asajay/351C_Build_2001/enginedone.jpg.html
>
>
>
> Note the large pipe-like opening on the drivers side of the engine, on
> the water pump pointing down about 45 degrees. That is where the water
> goes INTO the pump and the pump then circulates it through the engine
> and heads. The water flow EXITS the -block- at the very top, next to
> the distributor. On a Pantera, this is attached to a large pipe that
> wraps around the front of the engine and connects to the pressure tank.
>
>
>
> You want the bottom connection on the radiator, to go to the water pump.
>
>
>
> Hope that's clear.
>
> Asa Jay
>
> :)
>
> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
>
> & Shelley Marie
> Spokane, WA
>
> 1973 Pantera L 5533
> [ASASCAT]
>
> ******************************
> http://www.asajay.com
> http://www.351c.info
>
>
>
>
>
> Christopher Kimball wrote:
>
> Finally going to check this tomorrow (before another car
> show)--did you say the inlet to the water pump is the lower one,
> closest to the ground? Where is the outlet, so I don't get them
> confused? And I assume there's just one outlet on the bottom of the
> radiator.
>
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> Chris (still a neophyte!)
>
>
>
> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 07:19:16 -0700
>
> From: asajay at asajay.com
>
> To: chrisvkimball at msn.com
>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Third fan / cooling problems at idle.
>
>
>
> Make sure the bottom fitting goes to the inlet on the water pump.
>
>
>
> Asa Jay
>
> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
>
> & Shelley Marie
> Spokane, WA
>
> 1973 Pantera L 5533
> [ASASCAT]
>
> ******************************
> http://www.asajay.com
> http://www.351c.info
>
>
>
>
>
> Christopher Kimball wrote:
>
> The radiator I replaced was stock, as far as I know, and
> when
> I replaced it I simply hooked up the hoses the way they were when I
> replaced them. If I'm checking it out, what should I look for?
>
>
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 19:45:04 -0700
>
>> From: asajay at asajay.com
>
>> To: detomaso at realbig.com
>
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Third fan / cooling problems at idle.
>
>>
>
>> Which might actually beg the question, are your radiator hoses
> hooked to
>
>> the correct locations on the radiator? After all, if you pump hot
> fluid
>
>> in on the bottom and are trying to take it back off from the top,
> it
>
>> might make a huge difference in cooling. This is something I keep
>
>> meaning to check on my Pantera as well.
>
>>
>
>> Asa Jay
>
>>
>
>> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
>
>>
>
>> & Shelley Marie
>
>> Spokane, WA
>
>>
>
>> 1973 Pantera L 5533
>
>> [ASASCAT]
>
>>
>
>> ******************************
>
>> http://www.asajay.com
>
>> http://www.351c.info
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> Christopher Kimball wrote:
>
>> > Did you see some of the fans available on the forum? Anywhere
> from $20 to free! Get 'em while they're hot...er, cool...
>
>> >
>
>> > An interesting thing happened to me on the way to the Forum,
>
>> >
>
>> > Actually, it was on the way to Centralia, about an hour's
> drive. I noticed my little fan LEDs weren't on, and usually at least
> the first fan runs all the time, after a few minutes of the engine
> turning. The first LED flickered a bit, then went off. I was concerned,
> but at 70 on the freeway, the temp never got over 190. I had a feeling
> when I slowed, this might change!
>
>> >
>
>> > Sure enough, as soon as I got off the freeway, the gauge
> started climbing, even though I was averaging about 20 mph in town. The
> temp got quickly to about 240, so I pulled over. It turned out I had
> accidentally knocked one of the wires off the fuse-box tab while
> changing another fuse last night. Once I hooked it back on, all three
> fans immediately turned on and began cooling the radiator again. I
> started the car and within 5 minutes both my gauges (the stock one and
> the new one I ran from the block) went back down to 190 and stayed
> there.
>
>> >
>
>> > Remember, my car has a new radiator, all new hoses AND new
> cooling tubes.
>
>> >
>
>> > So much for the idea that Panteras can run cool without any
> fans...(let's see, who was it that postulated that ugly rumor??? You
> know who you are...!)
>
>> >
>
>> > Chris
>
>> > #3846
>
>> >
>
>> >
>
>> >
>
>> >
>
>> >> From: erpike at cs.com
>
>> >> To: chrisvkimball at msn.com
>
>> >> CC: detomaso at realbig.com
>
>> >> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Third fan / cooling problems at
> idle.
>
>> >> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 13:31:09 -0400
>
>> >>
>
>> >> Chris:
>
>> >>
>
>> >> Thanks. That is good insight for my issue which is more
> piece of mind than a
>
>> >> real concern. I probably over react when the temp gage
> goes up just because
>
>> >> it's a Pantera. My thoughts were to up grade the two
> original(?) fans on my
>
>> >> 74 or go to a third. I am leaning toward the third fan. I
> have to sit still
>
>> >> for a good 15 to 20 min for the temp to go up. Thanks
> again.
>
>> >>
>
>> >>
>
>> >> Thanks,
>
>> >> Ed
>
>> >> Ed....-----Original Message-----
>
>> >> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
> [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]
> On
>
>> >> Behalf Of Christopher Kimball
>
>> >> Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 1:14 PM
>
>> >> To: Kjetil Finne; erpike at cs.com;
> detomaso at realbig.com
>
>> >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Third fan / cooling problems at
> idle.
>
>> >>
>
>> >>
>
>> >> My guess would be the amount of air curculation being
> forced through the
>
>> >> radiator at higher speeds would more than compensate for
> the higher engine
>
>> >> heat, plus the coolant would be pumped faster through the
> engine, too.
>
>> >>
>
>> >> I had replace all my hoses and cooling tubes before
> replacing the radiator
>
>> >> and adding the fan, and it still overheated at idle, but
> never while
>
>> >> traveling faster than about 40.
>
>> >>
>
>> >> The increased flow solution would relate to the new
> radiator, which, as I
>
>> >> mentioned, was added at the same time as the fan. I guess
> I could
>
>> >> disconnect the third fan to see if only the new radiator
> solved the problem.
>
>> >> I'll probably get to that after I replace the speedometer
> calbe, fix the
>
>> >> cruise control replace the bushings, replace the left
> axle, rebuild the
>
>> >> motor and upgrade the fuse box...
>
>> >>
>
>> >> Chris
>
>> >> #3846> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 18:58:35 +0200> From:
> kjetfinn at online.no> To:
>
>> >> ERPIKE at cs.com;
> detomaso at realbig.com>
> Subject: Re:
> [DeTomaso] Third fan /
>
>> >> cooling problems at idle.> > What I have found is
> that if you have cooling
>
>> >> problems at idle it is > most likely caused by
> insufficient coolant
>
>> >> circulation, not by not > having enough air over the
> radiator.> The heat
>
>> >> generated by the engine should be less at idle than at
> higher > speeds. (I
>
>> >> guess?)> > Kjetil> > ERPIKE at cs.com wrote:>
>> Chris:> > I noticed you have 3
>
>> >> fans. Did the 3rd fan help with cooling when you have to
> sit and ilde alot?
>
>> >>
>
>> >>>>>> Ed...> >> > Christopher
> Kimball <chrisvkimball at msn.com>
> wrote:> >> >
>
>> >>>>>>
>
>> >>>>> What I did was to tap into the wires at each
> fan motor (I have
>
>> >>>>>
>
>> >> three--much to Mad Dawg's chagrin!) using the positive
> and negative leads
>
>> >> right before they went into the fan motors and ran the
> thee pairs of wire to
>
>> >> the dash. I drilled three little holes above the
> headlight switch and
>
>> >> mounted three different colored LEDs (which I bought at
> Radio Shack--made
>
>> >> especially for 12 volts) so now I know exactly when each
> fan is operating.>
>
>> >>
>
>> >>>>>>> The LEDs must be hooked up correctly
> with the positive side to the
>
>> >>>>>>>
>
>> >> positive wire and negative to negative.> >>>
>>> Chris> >>> >> #3846> >>> >>
>
>> >>
>
>> >>>>>> From: MikeLDrew at aol.com>
>>>>
> Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 00:36:38 -0400>
>
>> >>>>>>
>
>> >>>>> To: adin at frontier.net;
> detomaso at realbig.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso]
>
>> >>>>>
>
>> >> indicator light> >>>> >>>>
>>>> In a message dated 7/19/08 17 37 44,
>
>> >> adin at frontier.net
> writes:> >>>>
>>>>> >>> > >>>> I need to have a
> little
>
>> >> light to let me know when the cooling fans >
>>>>> come on (ford, but not
>
>> >> pantera) . . . it seems one could just take 12v >
>>>>> off the fan to a
>
>> >> light. It also seems this is a fire waiting to >
>>>>> happen - do I need to
>
>> >> take the power off the relay???> >>>>>
>>>>> Help please . . .> >>>>>
>>>>>
>
>> >> electronically challenged I remain,>
>>>>>> >>>> > >>> Dave,>
>>>>> >>> De
>
>> >> Tomaso was way ahead of you--there is a fan indicator
> light sitting right >
>
>> >>
>
>> >>>>> there at the bottom of your speedometer!>
>>>>> >>>
>
>> >>>>>
>
>> >> That light is amber in color, and moron Lincoln Mercury
> customers
>
>> >> interpreted > >>> that as a WARNING light and
> this drew complaints. So after
>
>> >> early 1972, it > >>> was left
> unconnected.> >>>> >>> It is a very simple
>
>> >> matter to string a wire from the output side of your #2
>> >>> fan relay back
>
>> >> to this light. Voila! :>)> >>>>
>>>> Actually, if you string it from the
>
>> >> output side, where 12V flows to the fan > >>>
> motor, then the spinning fan
>
>> >> might cause the light to glow when it is spinning, >
>>>> but not powered.
>
>> >> Come to think of it, it's probably better to string the
>> >>> wire from the
>
>> >> input to the fan relay, where the relay gets its "turn on
> the fan" > >>>
>
>> >> signal from the thermoswitch in the radiator.>
>>>>> >>> Mike> >>>>
>>>>> >>>
>
>> >> **************> >>> Get fantasy football with
> free live scoring. Sign up for
>
>> >>
>
>> >>>>>> FanHouse Fantasy Football today.>
>>>> > >>>
>
>> >>>>>>
>
>> >>
> (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020)>
>>>>
>
>> >> _______________________________________________>
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