[DeTomaso] Third fan / cooling problems at idle.

Sat Aug 9 18:34:22 EDT 2008

Well, I crawled under the car today, and guess what--it appears the inlet on the water pump (on the driver's side) goes to the top inlet on the radiator.  The two, inlet and outlet, on the radiator are very close together, however, and I'm wondering how a few inches could make a big difference.  One is literally less than an inch or so above the other.

In other words, do I have to drain all the coolant, switch the hoses and go through the entire burping routine again?  That would mean I'd also have to turn on the shut-off valves I inserted in the heater hoses.

Tell me it ain't so!  But if it is, tell me that, too.  

Thanks,

Chris

Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 08:52:19 -0700
From: asajay at asajay.com
To: chrisvkimball at msn.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Third fan / cooling problems at idle.

The water pump outlets are on the back, mated directly to the engine
block.  It's hard to see in this photo:

http://www.351c.info/gallery2/v/asajay/351C_Build_2001/blockandheads.jpg.html

but the two square openings on either side of the light area (timing
cover area), are where the coolant exits the water pump and goes
directly  into the block.  Then, it all comes out the large hole at the
top, near the front of the engine, near the passenger side head, which
you can see in the same photo.

The small tube on the water pump is strictly for the heater.  One hose
connects there, the other to the tube you can see in the photo on the
left near the passenger head again.

Asa Jay

Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired

& Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA

1973 Pantera L 5533
[ASASCAT]

******************************     
http://www.asajay.com
http://www.351c.info

Christopher Kimball wrote:

  Perfect!  It's interesting I can't see the outflow of the
water pump--unless it's that much smaller pipe I see on top of the
water pump.

Thanks again,

Chris

  Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 22:16:51 -0700

From: asajay at asajay.com

To: chrisvkimball at msn.com

Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Third fan / cooling problems at idle.

Here are two photos of the 351C and you can clearly see the aluminum
water pump mounted on the front:

  http://www.351c.info/gallery2/v/asajay/351C_Build_2001/water_pump.jpg.html

  http://www.351c.info/gallery2/v/asajay/351C_Build_2001/enginedone.jpg.html

Note the large pipe-like opening on the drivers side of the engine, on
the water pump pointing down about 45 degrees.  That is where the water
goes INTO the pump and the pump then circulates it through the engine
and heads.  The water flow EXITS the -block- at the very top, next to
the distributor.  On a Pantera, this is attached to a large pipe that
wraps around the front of the engine and connects to the pressure tank.

You want the bottom connection on the radiator, to go to the water pump.

Hope that's clear.

Asa Jay

:)

  Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired

& Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA

1973 Pantera L 5533
[ASASCAT]

******************************     
http://www.asajay.com
http://www.351c.info

Christopher Kimball wrote:

    Finally going to check this tomorrow (before another car
show)--did you say the inlet to the water pump is the lower one,
closest to the ground?  Where is the outlet, so I don't get them
confused?  And I assume there's just one outlet on the  bottom of the
radiator.

Thanks.

Chris (still a neophyte!)

    Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 07:19:16 -0700

From: asajay at asajay.com

To: chrisvkimball at msn.com

Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Third fan / cooling problems at idle.

Make sure the bottom fitting goes to the inlet on the water pump.

Asa Jay

    Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired

& Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA

1973 Pantera L 5533
[ASASCAT]

******************************     
http://www.asajay.com
http://www.351c.info

Christopher Kimball wrote:

      The radiator I replaced was stock, as far as I know, and
when
I replaced it I simply hooked up the hoses the way they were when I
replaced them.  If I'm checking it out, what should I look for?

Chris

> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 19:45:04 -0700

> From: asajay at asajay.com

> To: detomaso at realbig.com

> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Third fan / cooling problems at idle.

> 

> Which might actually beg the question, are your radiator hoses
hooked to 

> the correct locations on the radiator? After all, if you pump hot
fluid 

> in on the bottom and are trying to take it back off from the top,
it 

> might make a huge difference in cooling. This is something I keep 

> meaning to check on my Pantera as well.

> 

> Asa Jay

> 

> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired

> 

> & Shelley Marie

> Spokane, WA

> 

> 1973 Pantera L 5533

> [ASASCAT]

> 

> ****************************** 

> http://www.asajay.com

> http://www.351c.info

> 

> 

> 

> 

> Christopher Kimball wrote:

> > Did you see some of the fans available on the forum? Anywhere
from $20 to free! Get 'em while they're hot...er, cool...

> >

> > An interesting thing happened to me on the way to the Forum,

> >

> > Actually, it was on the way to Centralia, about an hour's
drive. I noticed my little fan LEDs weren't on, and usually at least
the first fan runs all the time, after a few minutes of the engine
turning. The first LED flickered a bit, then went off. I was concerned,
but at 70 on the freeway, the temp never got over 190. I had a feeling
when I slowed, this might change!

> >

> > Sure enough, as soon as I got off the freeway, the gauge
started climbing, even though I was averaging about 20 mph in town. The
temp got quickly to about 240, so I pulled over. It turned out I had
accidentally knocked one of the wires off the fuse-box tab while
changing another fuse last night. Once I hooked it back on, all three
fans immediately turned on and began cooling the radiator again. I
started the car and within 5 minutes both my gauges (the stock one and
the new one I ran from the block) went back down to 190 and stayed
there.

> >

> > Remember, my car has a new radiator, all new hoses AND new
cooling tubes.

> >

> > So much for the idea that Panteras can run cool without any
fans...(let's see, who was it that postulated that ugly rumor??? You
know who you are...!) 

> >

> > Chris

> > #3846

> >

> >

> >

> > 

> >> From: erpike at cs.com

> >> To: chrisvkimball at msn.com

> >> CC: detomaso at realbig.com

> >> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Third fan / cooling problems at
idle.

> >> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 13:31:09 -0400

> >>

> >> Chris:

> >>

> >> Thanks. That is good insight for my issue which is more
piece of mind than a

> >> real concern. I probably over react when the temp gage
goes up just because

> >> it's a Pantera. My thoughts were to up grade the two
original(?) fans on my

> >> 74 or go to a third. I am leaning toward the third fan. I
have to sit still

> >> for a good 15 to 20 min for the temp to go up. Thanks
again.

> >>

> >>

> >> Thanks,

> >> Ed

> >> Ed....-----Original Message-----

> >> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
[mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]
On

> >> Behalf Of Christopher Kimball

> >> Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 1:14 PM

> >> To: Kjetil Finne; erpike at cs.com;
      detomaso at realbig.com

> >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Third fan / cooling problems at
idle.

> >>

> >>

> >> My guess would be the amount of air curculation being
forced through the

> >> radiator at higher speeds would more than compensate for
the higher engine

> >> heat, plus the coolant would be pumped faster through the
engine, too.

> >> 

> >> I had replace all my hoses and cooling tubes before
replacing the radiator

> >> and adding the fan, and it still overheated at idle, but
never while

> >> traveling faster than about 40.

> >> 

> >> The increased flow solution would relate to the new
radiator, which, as I

> >> mentioned, was added at the same time as the fan. I guess
I could

> >> disconnect the third fan to see if only the new radiator
solved the problem.

> >> I'll probably get to that after I replace the speedometer
calbe, fix the

> >> cruise control replace the bushings, replace the left
axle, rebuild the

> >> motor and upgrade the fuse box...

> >> 

> >> Chris

> >> #3846> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 18:58:35 +0200> From:
      kjetfinn at online.no> To:

> >> ERPIKE at cs.com;
      detomaso at realbig.com>
Subject: Re:
[DeTomaso] Third fan /

> >> cooling problems at idle.> > What I have found is
that if you have cooling

> >> problems at idle it is > most likely caused by
insufficient coolant

> >> circulation, not by not > having enough air over the
radiator.> The heat

> >> generated by the engine should be less at idle than at
higher > speeds. (I

> >> guess?)> > Kjetil> > ERPIKE at cs.com wrote:>
> Chris:> > I noticed you have 3

> >> fans. Did the 3rd fan help with cooling when you have to
sit and ilde alot?

> >> 

> >>>>>> Ed...> >> > Christopher
Kimball <chrisvkimball at msn.com>
wrote:> >> >

> >>>>>> 

> >>>>> What I did was to tap into the wires at each
fan motor (I have

> >>>>> 

> >> three--much to Mad Dawg's chagrin!) using the positive
and negative leads

> >> right before they went into the fan motors and ran the
thee pairs of wire to

> >> the dash. I drilled three little holes above the
headlight switch and

> >> mounted three different colored LEDs (which I bought at
Radio Shack--made

> >> especially for 12 volts) so now I know exactly when each
fan is operating.>

> >> 

> >>>>>>> The LEDs must be hooked up correctly
with the positive side to the

> >>>>>>> 

> >> positive wire and negative to negative.> >>>
>> Chris> >>> >> #3846> >>> >>

> >> 

> >>>>>> From: MikeLDrew at aol.com>
>>>
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 00:36:38 -0400>

> >>>>>> 

> >>>>> To: adin at frontier.net;
      detomaso at realbig.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso]

> >>>>> 

> >> indicator light> >>>> >>>>
>>> In a message dated 7/19/08 17 37 44,

> >> adin at frontier.net
writes:> >>>>
>>>> >>> > >>>> I need to have a
little

> >> light to let me know when the cooling fans >
>>>> come on (ford, but not

> >> pantera) . . . it seems one could just take 12v >
>>>> off the fan to a

> >> light. It also seems this is a fire waiting to >
>>>> happen - do I need to

> >> take the power off the relay???> >>>>>
>>>> Help please . . .> >>>>>
>>>>

> >> electronically challenged I remain,>
>>>>> >>>> > >>> Dave,>
>>>> >>> De

> >> Tomaso was way ahead of you--there is a fan indicator
light sitting right >

> >> 

> >>>>> there at the bottom of your speedometer!>
>>>> >>> 

> >>>>> 

> >> That light is amber in color, and moron Lincoln Mercury
customers

> >> interpreted > >>> that as a WARNING light and
this drew complaints. So after

> >> early 1972, it > >>> was left
unconnected.> >>>> >>> It is a very simple

> >> matter to string a wire from the output side of your #2
> >>> fan relay back

> >> to this light. Voila! :>)> >>>>
>>> Actually, if you string it from the

> >> output side, where 12V flows to the fan > >>>
motor, then the spinning fan

> >> might cause the light to glow when it is spinning, >
>>> but not powered.

> >> Come to think of it, it's probably better to string the
> >>> wire from the

> >> input to the fan relay, where the relay gets its "turn on
the fan" > >>>

> >> signal from the thermoswitch in the radiator.>
>>>> >>> Mike> >>>>
>>>> >>>

> >> **************> >>> Get fantasy football with
free live scoring. Sign up for

> >> 

> >>>>>> FanHouse Fantasy Football today.>
>>> > >>>

> >>>>>> 

> >>
(http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020)>
>>>

> >> _______________________________________________>
>>>> >>> Detomaso Forum

> >> Managed by POCA> >>>> >>> Archive
Search Engine Now Available at

> >> http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/>
>>>>
>>> DeTomaso mailing list> >>>

> >> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com>
>>>

> >> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso>
>>> > >>

> >> _______________________________________________>
>>> >> Detomaso Forum

> >> Managed by POCA> >>> >> Archive Search
Engine Now Available at

> >> http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/>
>>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list> >>

> >> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com>
>>

> >> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso>
>>> >> > >

> >> _______________________________________________>
>> > Detomaso Forum Managed

> >> by POCA> >> > Archive Search Engine Now
Available at

> >> http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/>
>> >
DeTomaso mailing list> >

> >> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com>
>

> >> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso>
>> >> >> >> > > > >

> >> _______________________________________________> >
Detomaso Forum Managed by

> >> POCA> > Archive Search Engine Now Available at

> >> http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/>
> DeTomaso
mailing list>

> >> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com>
      http://list.re

> >>

> >> albig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso

> >> _______________________________________________

> >>

> >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA

> >>

> >> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/

> >>

> >> DeTomaso mailing list

> >> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com

> >> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso

> >>

> >> 

> > _______________________________________________

> >

> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA

> >

> > Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/

> >

> > DeTomaso mailing list

> > DeTomaso at list.realbig.com

> > http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso

> >

> >

> > 

> _______________________________________________

> 

> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA

> 

> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/

> 

> DeTomaso mailing list

> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com

> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG. 
Version: 7.5.526 / Virus Database: 270.5.3/1565 - Release Date: 7/21/2008 6:36 PM

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG. 
Version: 7.5.526 / Virus Database: 270.6.0/1601 - Release Date: 8/8/2008 9:02 AM