[DeTomaso] E85 and octane

Mad Dog Antenucci teampantera at yahoo.com
Fri Nov 2 11:12:03 EDT 2007



Mad Dog Antenucci <teampantera at yahoo.com> wrote:    And don't forget while both of you  slacker babies were still sheeetin yellow a gallon of 101 high octane back in the day was 28 cents a gallon. 
   
  Doug, I was doin those wheelies through the snow and ice in a pickup with no floorboards or windshield wipers (unsprung weight savings)   and long after both of you have retired and sold your Pantera's  I will STILL be kicking your asses and every Viper, Porsche or new Vette in the western world....okay maybe just Nevada, Texas and Nebraska ;-]>  
   
  Mad  Dawg
  Low Riders Rule

Doug Braun <doug at silicondesigns.com> wrote:
  Not a problem! Remember he just does a continuous wheelie and peeks through
the floorboards.

Doug Braun
blue 73L #5505

-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
[mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]On Behalf Of John Bentley (jab)
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 4:14 PM
To: Mad Dog Antenucci; doug at silicondesigns.com
Cc: DeTomaso Forum
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] E85 and octane


The real reason DaWg doesn't drive on the street is his 1/4-inch ground
clearance... :)

JB


-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]
On Behalf Of Mad Dog Antenucci
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 4:05 PM
To: doug at silicondesigns.com
Cc: DeTomaso Forum
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] E85 and octane

Doug-Doug-Doug,

I don't have any detonation on the street but I also don't race on the
street. I used to race (yaaaawn) on the streets when I lived in
Seattle. I just don't do it anymore. Why put your own life or the
lifes of others at risk? Its bad enough you still go around cones now
you want to put the ciivilians at risk too?!

Between my youthful off-road excursions, Vietnam, life in the Middle
East and fires I figure I have used up most of my 9 lifes
already........ so I'll save whatever remaining lives I have for
'sanctioned' track or open road race events where all I have to do is
register, tech the Pantera and then I can legally go around Vipers or
anything else that gets in my way.

I'm also fortunate that with in 500 miles of my home I have access to
a dozen race tracks and another 5 open road races every year....1500
miles from the house I have access to Texas and Nebraska ORR's and
another dozen or more rack tracks.

Consider moving...your still a slacker ;-]>

MD

Doug Braun wrote:
MD,

We both have cams with a lot of duration and last I heard, your 2006
engine was 11:1 with aluminum heads which is equivalent in octane
requirements to my 10:5:1 iron head. Seems to me you could learn
something from this 1/2 slacker and use Super 104+ when you're not
racing. This way you could lean on your car harder on the street without
worrying so much (like when that random Viper or Vette pulls up
alongside). The nearest race gas is about 8 miles away and at 13 MPG I'd
end up spending as much on gas to go get the race gas as it costs to
treat a tankfull of pump gas with 104+ treatment. It's a whole lot
easier to just carry the small bottles around.
Some of the places I autocross are 100 miles away and at 14 MPG I have
to fill up to get back home. I can't afford to trailer my car; besides I
love driving the Pantera to where I race and it's more intimidating to
my competitors to beat their trailered cars with a street driven car.
The Super 104+ makes it both cheap and convenient.

PS: You can call me cheap, and you can call me a 1/2 slacker, but don't
call me a full slacker until you come out and beat me on an autocross
course.
Hah!

Doug Braun
blue 73L #5505

-----Original Message-----
From: Mad Dog Antenucci [mailto:teampantera at yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 9:16 AM
To: doug at silicondesigns.com; michael frazier
Cc: DeTomaso Forum
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] E85 and octane


Super 104+? Why not just buy the real stuff slacker?
I don't need any race fuel unless I am racing but then I have alum
heads, lots of compression ;-]> and a cam with serious duration.

When I lived in Seattle the only time I ever added race gas was when I
ran at SIR or PIR or the old track up in BC. I was running a Boss 351
with iron quench heads and 11:1 compression and a lot of cam. Not sure
when leaded gas was discontinued but I didn't have trouble with the
engine detonating 'until' I moved to SF and the Bay Area in '86 where
temps were allot warmer on track days at Sears Point or Laguna Seca.

If your running a serious Pantera engine hard in competition or anywhere
near WOT run a 50/50 or more mix of race fuel in track and ORR events. I
run
114 leaded. Durango Dave and Michael Frasier can ignore this advise
since they won't ever reach WOT in their Pantera's! BWAHAHAHA

MD

Doug Braun wrote:
Michael,

If you're talking about the standard 104+, I have to agree with you that
it doesn't do much for octane but I have to differ with you when it
comes to the Super 104+. I have a 10.5:1 iron head Cleveland that pings
like a banshee on any of the 92 and 93 octane premium gasolines in the
Seattle area. I use just 1/2 a bottle for each 15 gallons of 92 octane I
buy and all the engine noise mysteriously disappears. So if my engine
pings on
93
without Super 104+ but doesn't on 92 with Super 104+ that tells me that
it has to be raising the 92 octane to at least 93.5 or more. At $9 a
bottle that's only $4.50 per 15 gallons of gas. I learned about how well
the Super
104+ works from a (now-deceased) Pantera, NASCAR and Ford dealership
owner
named Jim van Cleve. He set some drag racing records in the early '60's.
He had a beautiful Pantera with a 12.5:1 iron head 351C that he
routinely wound to 8500 RPM. He would run two bottles of Super 104+ and
pump premium with no detonation. Save yourself some money try the Super
104+. Be careful though the Standard vs. Super bottles look very
similar. The standard stuff is usually $2 to $3 per bottle cheaper (stay
away from it).
If you do try it, let us know how it works out.

Doug Braun
blue 73L #5505

-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
[mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]On Behalf Of michael frazier
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 8:17 AM
To: adin at frontier.net; detomaso at realbig.com
Subject: [DeTomaso] E85 and octane



E85 is already in most of the fuel you buy. I don't see any point in
converting an older carbed car to run on alcohol.
Certainly not for fuel economy reasons. For several years I've been
dumping
2 to 3 gallons of Toluene into the tank
too bump up the octane prior to the ORR events. Just for a little
insurance, not that my 118 hp engine would need it.
Toluene is already a major component in what we call gasoline. Nearly
20% in some blends like AvGas. It's worked quite well for me. Like Dave
Doddeck said, small quantities of alcohol or whatever will make no
noticable difference. The little cans of 104+ do nothing more than raise
the rating a point or two...Like
92
to 92.2. You can find additive tests of everything from nitromethane to
mothballs and this seems the best. If I remember right
104+ IS toluene with a bit of ATF.
Here's what I've used. These are from my old notes but reflect info
that's already out there.
Mixtures of Toluene with 92 Octane Premium and 20 gallon capacity.
2gal/10%...94.2 Octane 4gal/20%...96.4 Octane 6gal/30%...98.6 Octane
I've used it in several cars, noticed a difference, everything ran clean
and cool. It's about $7 for a gallon can.
Cheaper in 5 gallon cans. You can add a little of your favorite
aftershave too. I have a good article on this if anybody wants it. I
could just copy and send it to the list if there's any interest.

Michael
Gruppo Rompiculi Corsa
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Mad Dawg Antenucci
Team Pantera Racing
The 1st & still the only vintage race team in open road racing
www.teampanteraracing.com
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  Mad Dawg Antenucci 
Team Pantera Racing 
  The 1st & still the only vintage race team in open road racing 
www.teampanteraracing.com



Mad Dawg Antenucci 
Team Pantera Racing 
  The 1st & still the only vintage race team in open road racing 
www.teampanteraracing.com



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