[DeTomaso] E85 and octane

Doug Braun doug at silicondesigns.com
Thu Nov 1 19:34:41 EDT 2007


MD,

	I agree with you about not racing on the streets, that's why I autocross;
it's the safest form of racing.  But it seems to me a year back or so when
you got your new engine you had a posting about leaning on your new engine
on the street and saying it felt real good.  I can see this 1/2 slacker is
not going to convince you of the merits of Super 104+ but you may want to
carry an emergency bottle of it for the rare occasion when the race gas you
expected to be available, isn't.

	Also, I may HAVE to move if the Rapid Transit Proposition passes here in a
few weeks.  By some accounts, it's projected it'll cost $93,000 per
household over the life of the project.  And I thought my taxes were already
too high!  Silly me.

Doug Braun

-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
[mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]On Behalf Of Mad Dog Antenucci
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 4:05 PM
To: doug at silicondesigns.com
Cc: DeTomaso Forum
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] E85 and octane


Doug-Doug-Doug,

  I don't have any detonation on the street but I also don't race on the
street. I used to race (yaaaawn)  on the streets when I lived in Seattle.  I
just don't do it anymore.   Why put your own life or the lifes of others at
risk? Its bad enough you still go around cones  now you want to put the
ciivilians at risk too?!

  Between my youthful off-road excursions, Vietnam, life in the Middle East
and fires I figure I have used up most of my 9 lifes already........ so I'll
save whatever remaining lives I have for 'sanctioned' track or open road
race events where all I have to do is register, tech the Pantera and then I
can  legally go around Vipers or anything else that gets in my way.

  I'm also fortunate that with in 500 miles of my home  I have access to a
dozen race tracks and another 5 open road races every year....1500 miles
from the house I have access to Texas and Nebraska ORR's and another dozen
or more rack tracks.

  Consider moving...your still a slacker ;-]>

  MD

Doug Braun <doug at silicondesigns.com> wrote:
  MD,

We both have cams with a lot of duration and last I heard, your 2006
engine was 11:1 with aluminum heads which is equivalent in octane
requirements to my 10:5:1 iron head. Seems to me you could learn something
from this 1/2 slacker and use Super 104+ when you're not racing. This way
you could lean on your car harder on the street without worrying so much
(like when that random Viper or Vette pulls up alongside). The nearest race
gas is about 8 miles away and at 13 MPG I'd end up spending as much on gas
to go get the race gas as it costs to treat a tankfull of pump gas with 104+
treatment. It's a whole lot easier to just carry the small bottles around.
Some of the places I autocross are 100 miles away and at 14 MPG I have to
fill up to get back home. I can't afford to trailer my car; besides I love
driving the Pantera to where I race and it's more intimidating to my
competitors to beat their trailered cars with a street driven car. The
Super 104+ makes it both cheap and convenient.

PS: You can call me cheap, and you can call me a 1/2 slacker, but don't call
me a full slacker until you come out and beat me on an autocross course.
Hah!

Doug Braun
blue 73L #5505

-----Original Message-----
From: Mad Dog Antenucci [mailto:teampantera at yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 9:16 AM
To: doug at silicondesigns.com; michael frazier
Cc: DeTomaso Forum
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] E85 and octane


Super 104+? Why not just buy the real stuff slacker?
I don't need any race fuel unless I am racing but then I have alum heads,
lots of compression ;-]> and a cam with serious duration.

When I lived in Seattle the only time I ever added race gas was when I
ran at SIR or PIR or the old track up in BC. I was running a Boss 351 with
iron quench heads and 11:1 compression and a lot of cam. Not sure when
leaded gas was discontinued but I didn't have trouble with the engine
detonating 'until' I moved to SF and the Bay Area in '86 where temps were
allot warmer on track days at Sears Point or Laguna Seca.

If your running a serious Pantera engine hard in competition or anywhere
near WOT run a 50/50 or more mix of race fuel in track and ORR events. I run
114 leaded. Durango Dave and Michael Frasier can ignore this advise since
they won't ever reach WOT in their Pantera's! BWAHAHAHA

MD

Doug Braun wrote:
Michael,

If you're talking about the standard 104+, I have to agree with you that
it
doesn't do much for octane but I have to differ with you when it comes
to
the Super 104+. I have a 10.5:1 iron head Cleveland that pings like a
banshee on any of the 92 and 93 octane premium gasolines in the Seattle
area. I use just 1/2 a bottle for each 15 gallons of 92 octane I buy and
all the engine noise mysteriously disappears. So if my engine pings on
93
without Super 104+ but doesn't on 92 with Super 104+ that tells me that
it
has to be raising the 92 octane to at least 93.5 or more. At $9 a bottle
that's only $4.50 per 15 gallons of gas. I learned about how well the
Super
104+ works from a (now-deceased) Pantera, NASCAR and Ford dealership
owner
named Jim van Cleve. He set some drag racing records in the early '60's.
He had a beautiful Pantera with a 12.5:1 iron head 351C that he
routinely
wound to 8500 RPM. He would run two bottles of Super 104+ and pump
premium
with no detonation. Save yourself some money try the Super 104+. Be
careful though the Standard vs. Super bottles look very similar. The
standard stuff is usually $2 to $3 per bottle cheaper (stay away from
it).
If you do try it, let us know how it works out.

Doug Braun
blue 73L #5505

-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
[mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]On Behalf Of michael frazier
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 8:17 AM
To: adin at frontier.net; detomaso at realbig.com
Subject: [DeTomaso] E85 and octane



E85 is already in most of the fuel you buy. I don't see any point in
converting an older carbed car to run on alcohol.
Certainly not for fuel economy reasons. For several years I've been
dumping
2 to 3 gallons of Toluene into the tank
too bump up the octane prior to the ORR events. Just for a little
insurance, not that my 118 hp engine would need it.
Toluene is already a major component in what we call gasoline. Nearly
20%
in some blends like AvGas. It's worked quite
well for me. Like Dave Doddeck said, small quantities of alcohol or
whatever will make no noticable difference. The little
cans of 104+ do nothing more than raise the rating a point or two...Like
92
to 92.2. You can find additive tests of everything
from nitromethane to mothballs and this seems the best. If I remember
right
104+ IS toluene with a bit of ATF.
Here's what I've used. These are from my old notes but reflect info
that's
already out there.
Mixtures of Toluene with 92 Octane Premium and 20 gallon capacity.
2gal/10%...94.2 Octane 4gal/20%...96.4 Octane 6gal/30%...98.6 Octane
I've used it in several cars, noticed a difference, everything ran clean
and
cool. It's about $7 for a gallon can.
Cheaper in 5 gallon cans. You can add a little of your favorite
aftershave
too. I have a good article on this
if anybody wants it. I could just copy and send it to the list if
there's
any interest.

Michael
Gruppo Rompiculi Corsa
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live Hotmail and Microsoft Office Outlook – together at last.
Get
it now.

http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook/HA102225181033.aspx?pid=CL10062697
1033
_______________________________________________

Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA

Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/

DeTomaso mailing list
DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso


_______________________________________________

Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA

Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/

DeTomaso mailing list
DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso


_______________________________________________

Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA

Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/

DeTomaso mailing list
DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso



Mad Dawg Antenucci
Team Pantera Racing
  The 1st & still the only vintage race team in open road racing
www.teampanteraracing.com
_______________________________________________

Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA

Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/

DeTomaso mailing list
DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso





More information about the DeTomaso mailing list