[DeTomaso] E85 and octane
Doug Braun
doug at silicondesigns.com
Thu Nov 1 14:15:49 EDT 2007
MD,
We both have cams with a lot of duration and last I heard, your 2006
engine was 11:1 with aluminum heads which is equivalent in octane
requirements to my 10:5:1 iron head. Seems to me you could learn something
from this 1/2 slacker and use Super 104+ when you're not racing. This way
you could lean on your car harder on the street without worrying so much
(like when that random Viper or Vette pulls up alongside). The nearest race
gas is about 8 miles away and at 13 MPG I'd end up spending as much on gas
to go get the race gas as it costs to treat a tankfull of pump gas with 104+
treatment. It's a whole lot easier to just carry the small bottles around.
Some of the places I autocross are 100 miles away and at 14 MPG I have to
fill up to get back home. I can't afford to trailer my car; besides I love
driving the Pantera to where I race and it's more intimidating to my
competitors to beat their trailered cars with a street driven car. The
Super 104+ makes it both cheap and convenient.
PS: You can call me cheap, and you can call me a 1/2 slacker, but don't call
me a full slacker until you come out and beat me on an autocross course.
Hah!
Doug Braun
blue 73L #5505
-----Original Message-----
From: Mad Dog Antenucci [mailto:teampantera at yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 9:16 AM
To: doug at silicondesigns.com; michael frazier
Cc: DeTomaso Forum
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] E85 and octane
Super 104+? Why not just buy the real stuff slacker?
I don't need any race fuel unless I am racing but then I have alum heads,
lots of compression ;-]> and a cam with serious duration.
When I lived in Seattle the only time I ever added race gas was when I
ran at SIR or PIR or the old track up in BC. I was running a Boss 351 with
iron quench heads and 11:1 compression and a lot of cam. Not sure when
leaded gas was discontinued but I didn't have trouble with the engine
detonating 'until' I moved to SF and the Bay Area in '86 where temps were
allot warmer on track days at Sears Point or Laguna Seca.
If your running a serious Pantera engine hard in competition or anywhere
near WOT run a 50/50 or more mix of race fuel in track and ORR events. I run
114 leaded. Durango Dave and Michael Frasier can ignore this advise since
they won't ever reach WOT in their Pantera's! BWAHAHAHA
MD
Doug Braun <doug at silicondesigns.com> wrote:
Michael,
If you're talking about the standard 104+, I have to agree with you that
it
doesn't do much for octane but I have to differ with you when it comes
to
the Super 104+. I have a 10.5:1 iron head Cleveland that pings like a
banshee on any of the 92 and 93 octane premium gasolines in the Seattle
area. I use just 1/2 a bottle for each 15 gallons of 92 octane I buy and
all the engine noise mysteriously disappears. So if my engine pings on
93
without Super 104+ but doesn't on 92 with Super 104+ that tells me that
it
has to be raising the 92 octane to at least 93.5 or more. At $9 a bottle
that's only $4.50 per 15 gallons of gas. I learned about how well the
Super
104+ works from a (now-deceased) Pantera, NASCAR and Ford dealership
owner
named Jim van Cleve. He set some drag racing records in the early '60's.
He had a beautiful Pantera with a 12.5:1 iron head 351C that he
routinely
wound to 8500 RPM. He would run two bottles of Super 104+ and pump
premium
with no detonation. Save yourself some money try the Super 104+. Be
careful though the Standard vs. Super bottles look very similar. The
standard stuff is usually $2 to $3 per bottle cheaper (stay away from
it).
If you do try it, let us know how it works out.
Doug Braun
blue 73L #5505
-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
[mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]On Behalf Of michael frazier
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 8:17 AM
To: adin at frontier.net; detomaso at realbig.com
Subject: [DeTomaso] E85 and octane
E85 is already in most of the fuel you buy. I don't see any point in
converting an older carbed car to run on alcohol.
Certainly not for fuel economy reasons. For several years I've been
dumping
2 to 3 gallons of Toluene into the tank
too bump up the octane prior to the ORR events. Just for a little
insurance, not that my 118 hp engine would need it.
Toluene is already a major component in what we call gasoline. Nearly
20%
in some blends like AvGas. It's worked quite
well for me. Like Dave Doddeck said, small quantities of alcohol or
whatever will make no noticable difference. The little
cans of 104+ do nothing more than raise the rating a point or two...Like
92
to 92.2. You can find additive tests of everything
from nitromethane to mothballs and this seems the best. If I remember
right
104+ IS toluene with a bit of ATF.
Here's what I've used. These are from my old notes but reflect info
that's
already out there.
Mixtures of Toluene with 92 Octane Premium and 20 gallon capacity.
2gal/10%...94.2 Octane 4gal/20%...96.4 Octane 6gal/30%...98.6 Octane
I've used it in several cars, noticed a difference, everything ran clean
and
cool. It's about $7 for a gallon can.
Cheaper in 5 gallon cans. You can add a little of your favorite
aftershave
too. I have a good article on this
if anybody wants it. I could just copy and send it to the list if
there's
any interest.
Michael
Gruppo Rompiculi Corsa
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