[DeTomaso] Panteras for sale

Tue May 15 18:33:31 EDT 2007

Gray,

Sorry I hit the send before I intended. You make several valid points that I
had not considered. I appreciate the information & feel I am better
informed.

Thanks
Indy Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: Gray Gregory [mailto:rgg at gregorycook.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 3:20 PM
To: dave at damardirect.com; F&D Terry
Cc: michael at michaelshortt.com; detomaso at realbig.com
Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Panteras for sale

Dave,

Collectables prices tend to follow the markets with quite a bit of lag
on the way up and much less on the way down. The car market really took
off in the late 80's after several years of good economic growth and a
bull market in stocks that began in 1982. The market turned down around
92 -93 after the economy and the stock market slowed following the first
Gulf War (and to Fred's point a tax hike in 93). The car market began a
quiet recovery in the late 90's only to be thwarted by the stock market
crash in early 2000 and of course 9-11. It's been moving back up again
the last couple years and has really taken off in the last 6 to 9
months; although some of this recent spike can probably be attributed to
the week dollar as well.

I don't disagree with your assertion that investment money is looking
for a new home; however I believe that money is the result of recent
good performance in the financial markets and is more of an effort to
diversify a small portion of a growing portfolio than an indication of
stock markets being "not attractive". History tells us that if the
economy and the markets turn down collectables (other than coins,
precious metals etc) will turn down too.

Gray 

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave McManus [mailto:dave at damardirect.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 3:29 PM
To: Gray Gregory; 'F&D Terry'
Cc: michael at michaelshortt.com; detomaso at realbig.com
Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Panteras for sale

Seems I remember something happening about 1994 or 1995 when F-40s
dropped
from 1.2 to about 250M and the collectable car market took a serious
tumble.
We had a war to fight & the stock market was soaring, both good signs
for a
strong economy. Seems the car market stayed down for about 5-6 years.

There has been an influx of new collectable car buyers over the last few
years (maybe since the early 2000s) with investment monies looking for a
home. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Gray Gregory [mailto:rgg at gregorycook.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 2:12 PM
To: F&D Terry; dave at damardirect.com
Cc: michael at michaelshortt.com; detomaso at realbig.com
Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Panteras for sale

I agree with Fred. Prices for collectables (cars, art, memorabilia etc.)
tend to follow good performance in the financial markets and the economy
as a whole. The last few years have seen good economic growth and good
returns for most of the major stock market indexes world wide. If this
trend continues I would expect the market for collectables to stay
strong, if it reverses expect the collectables to follow suit. 

My .02,

Gray

-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]
On Behalf Of F&D Terry
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 1:34 PM
To: dave at damardirect.com
Cc: michael at michaelshortt.com; detomaso at realbig.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Panteras for sale

Actually the stock market has done very well for quite a few years with 
yearly gains in the 20% range for picking the right investment. This is 
what happens when the government doesn't tax all our money away, leaving

some for us to invest.

I attribute the reason car prices have risen so rapidly lately is 
because everyone is feeling flush as a result of stock market and 
housing gains. It certainly has put dollars in some pockets that a few 
years ago were nearly empty. Wait 'till Hillary gets through with her 
government funded health care. Car prices along with the stock market 
will have a serious set back.

Fred T.

Dave McManus wrote:

>IMHO, As long as the stock market is not attractive, the "investment"
cars
>will continue to do well. It is an alternative to the market.
>
>Indy
>Dave
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Michael Shortt [mailto:michaelsavga at gmail.com] 
>Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 7:03 PM
>To: Mike Thomas
>Cc: Detomaso at Realbig. Com
>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Panteras for sale
>
>I DO like those prices, perhaps sooner than later they will be
commonplace
>for well cared for examples of our cars.  If we knock the value of
these
>cars ourselves, how do we expect those outside the circle to appreciate
>them?
>I have been to 5-7 auctions in the last year, still amazed that some
"Shelby
>Mustang", a glorified fastback with a few over the counter parts now
command
>225K as a starting point.
>Meanwhile, Mangusta. rolling works of art stall at 60K and Panteras
sell for
>30-50K.
>The entire car price structure is about as FU as started to get when
the
>1980's Japanese started buying Ferrari Daytonas for 500K and GTO's at
10-15
>million. I personally know of one that they offered to buy at 10
million 15
>years ago, the owner turned them down and later sold it for less when
the
>bottom finally fell out.  Just as it may do with Muscle cars at some
point,
>3.7 Million for a 1971 Hemi Cuda Conv. is a joke, the car drove like a
>truck, so what there were only 12 made in 1971, that should tell you
>something, NOBODY wanted one.
>Let's be our own best cheerleaders ans start being amazed at how cheap
one
>sells for, not indignant at how much is asked or paid fopr one.
>
>Michael in Savannah
>
>
>On 5/14/07, Mike Thomas <mbefthomas at comcast.net> wrote:
>  
>
>>I like those prices!
>>Yeah, right . . . .
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
[mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]
>>On
>>Behalf Of Garth Rodericks
>>Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 11:53 AM
>>To: detomaso at realbig.com
>>Subject: [DeTomaso] Panteras for sale
>>
>>There are 3 Panteras for sale on cars.com\
>>
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>http://www.cars.com/go/search/search_results.jsp?tracktype=usedcc&searc
hType
>  
>
>>    
>>
>=21&cid=&dlid=&dgid=&amid=&cname=&mdnm=all&mknm=DeTomaso&rd=10000&zc=95
125&m
>  
>
>>    
>>
>akeid=80&modelid=&pageNumber=0&numResultsPerPage=50&largeNumResultsPerP
age=0
>  
>
>>    
>>
>&sortorder=descending&sortfield=PRICE+descending&certifiedOnly=false&cr
iteri
>  
>
>>    
>>
>a=K-%7CE-%7CM-_80_%7CN-N%7CR-10000%7CI-1%7CP-PRICE+descending%7CQ-desce
nding
>  
>
>>%7CZ-95125&aff=national&aff=national
>>
>>(or http://tinyurl.com/23yfdq)
>>
>>Do we know these cars or the sellers?
>>
>>Cheers!
>>Garth (never selling) Rodericks
>>#4033
>>
>>
>>---------------------------------
>>Don't pick lemons.
>>See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
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