[DeTomaso] Wiring Schematic Files

Wed May 9 08:56:49 EDT 2007

To All
I had not been reading this subject until Dick's post today that got my
attention.
I cannot believe this much of a turmoil over nothing from supposedly
civilized people.
I guess I need to turn myself in to the local authorities and confess all of
my sins of sharing with and helping out other car people.
This is ridiculous!
Greg Landwehr
1972 Pre-L (w/o a wiring diagram!)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick Koch" <arkoch at earthlink.net>
To: "Detomaso at Realbig. Com" <detomaso at realbig.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 5:58 AM
Subject: [DeTomaso] Wiring Schematic Files


> For those that have no interest in this ongoing discussion, just
> disregard this post.
>
> For those that don't want to face a life sentence for the casual
> distribution of a few copies of copyrighted material, feel free to cower
> in your corner, fearing the wrath of the copyright gods and the hordes
> of lawyers they will cast in your direction.
>
> For those that would like to share the information with their friends
> that need help in getting information on how to work on their car, read
on.
>
> If one would get realistic about this subject, i. e. copying selected
> Pantera related information and sharing it free of charge to selected
> folks, think about who might want to spend the untold amounts of money
> to hire lawyers to go after you.
>
> First, Ford had the copyrights on all the original Pantera documentation
> that was part of their Pantera program, such as the Pantera Technical
> Information, first edition, that contained one of the latest wiring
> diagrams for the car.  I don't believe they will hire any lawyers to
> come after you for copying some 33 year old material, on a program they
> discontinued, and with which they would just as soon forget they ever
> ever created.
>
> Second, maybe Detomaso picked up the copyright protection from Ford.
> Even with no indication of that transfered right on their documentation
> and no notice to the world to that effect, I don't think the now defunct
> Detomaso company will be hiring a horde of lawyers to come after a few
> folks, that cherish the Pantera, for copying some selected material that
> no longer is produced by either manufacturer.
>
> Lasly, if one of the current Pantera parts or information vendors claims
> to have ownership of the copyrighted Pantera documentation, have them
> step forward and prove it by providing the extensive legal paper trail
> that gives them that right.  Its one thing to claim copyright
> ownership.  It is another to prove it.
>
> If any current Pantera parts or information vendor can, and then is
> willing to spend the time and considerable amount of money to chase down
> a few folks that, in some folks opinion on this forum, jeopardize their
> existence, that is their choice.  Foolhardy, yes. Waste of time, yes.
> Expensive, yes.  Return for their efforts, zilch.
>
> However, until that takes place, I will continue to provide information
> to some of my "friends" in need, who are not paranoid in thinking that
> the big hand of a copyright lawyer is looking at putting them away for
> the drastic misdeed of copying and distributing some obscure, as far as
> the rest of the world is concerned, supporting documentation, on a
> defunct car program that no longer exists.
>
> My loyalties go to folks that want to help folks in maintaining and
> promoting the Pantera.  If a vendor chooses to try to make a buck in
> providing a service to that community, good for them.  I am glad they
> are in existence and support them by buying their goods and services
> when needed.  However, when it comes down to stifling the decades old
> practice of sharing selected information on my car,  I say to the
> paranoids in the group, "Get real".
>
> Dick Koch - Atlanta
>
> Michael Shortt wrote:
> > So given that the original was a copyrighted work created by the
Detomaso
> > company and given that it wasn't substanially changed enough to void the

> > copyright protection, aren't we just splitting hairs over who has the
rights
> > to steal it?
> >
> > I'll take a corrrected stolen version anytime.
> >
> > Pleeeze!
> >
> >
> > On 5/7/07, Dick Koch <arkoch at earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Let me get this straight.  When I took my pristine and original wiring
> >> diagram, that is wire for wire correct for my 1974 Pantera that I have
> >> had for 33 years, got it enlarged, copied a few dozen times, had it
> >> lamenated, and gave them away over the years, I should have paid POCA
> >> for the right to do so?
> >>
> >> B... S...  and Balderdash! Donny is being kind in his assessment of the
> >> situation.
> >>
> >> If Chris wants to copy and give away (in other words free of charge)
the
> >> schematic, he is doing everyone in this community a great service.  Not
> >> only that, he is encouraging others to help unselfishly as well,
without
> >> the thought of making a buck, to enhance the ownership experience of
the
> >> Pantera.
> >>
> >> Chris, I for one, even though I have a  pristine, enlarged, laminated,
> >> and legible wiring diagram, would like to have a machine readable
> >> version that I can play with at my leisure.
> >>
> >> Chris, put me on the list of folks that would like the file you so
> >> unselfishly created and offered to the masses.
> >>
> >> Take care and keep up the good work.
> >>
> >> Dick Koch - Altanta
> >>
> >> Donny Williams wrote:
> >>
> >>> I do not have a dog in this schematic fight..... But hey, when Pantera
> >>> owners benefit, they benefit from helping eachother period!  I hate a
> >>>
> >> hobby
> >>
> >>> where someone or group has to make a financial claim like this example
> >>>
> >> to a
> >>
> >>> wiring schematic on a 30 year automobile.  If someone wants to buy
POCA
> >>> printed version they always have that option and right now!  If
someone
> >>> desired the the larger version POCA does not offer, and wanted to have
> >>>
> >> it
> >>
> >>> printed themselves do the extra work themselves, they had that as an
> >>>
> >> option.
> >>
> >>> The POCA version schematic to itself hardly makes one have a
motivation
> >>>
> >> to
> >>
> >>> join POCA.  LOL's!  To that end their are alot of resources and ideas
> >>>
> >> from
> >>
> >>> individuals who belong to POCA, and just as many Non POCA who
contribute
> >>> just as much to the overall good of helping other people with their
> >>>
> >> Pantera
> >>
> >>> all the time with information and new techniques.   Perhaps we need to
> >>> qualify who is, and who is not. Simply for the financial interests of
> >>>
> >> POCA
> >>
> >>> that apparently is falling short financially and does not like to
> >>>
> >> compete
> >>
> >>> with what they sell.  Perhaps we need to only provide any information
> >>> exclusive according to a membership status to POCA and what they are
> >>>
> >> willing
> >>
> >>> to purchase from it solely.   Frankly, this left just another bad
taste
> >>>
> >> in
> >>
> >>> my mouth for this organization   Most car clubs are not for profit, I
> >>>
> >> guess
> >>
> >>> POCA is indeed a legitimate business, I never realized until right now
> >>>
> >> that
> >>
> >>> POCA paid Federal taxes for selling goods.
> >>>
> >>> Chris, hopefully you can collect a list of the people that would like
to
> >>> benefit from your additional work and send a mass mailing to them with
> >>>
> >> the
> >>
> >>> file attachement privately.  I certainly hope your not apologizing for
> >>> simply taking something to the next level for the best good of all
> >>>
> >> Pantera
> >>
> >>> owners.  POCA clearly only wants their original version out their and
to
> >>> hold owners hostage to them.....Or alternativly, if your a POCA
follower
> >>>
> >> you
> >>
> >>> could suffice the POCA gods by allowing them to sell your improved
> >>> modifications to an original work if you opt, so the mass who want it,
> >>>
> >> can
> >>
> >>> benefit.
> >>>
> >>> Yes, I know this will inflame the POCA Religion and faithful
> >>> followers......To bad.... I think its a selfish shame frankly no
matter
> >>>
> >> who
> >>
> >>> what you choose or not choose to belong to, and am just saying so.
> >>>
> >>> Donny
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Chris Difani" <cdifani at pacbell.net>
> >>> To: <detomaso at realbig.com>; "Asa Jay Laughton" <asajay at asajay.com>
> >>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 8:15 AM
> >>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Wiring Schematic Files
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Mr Laughton, and Pantera Listers:
> >>>>
> >>>> My apologies to one and all for trying to provide a larger file
> >>>>
> >> version,
> >>
> >>>> at
> >>>> considerable personal effort, and to absolutely NO personal benefit.
> >>>>
> >> The
> >>
> >>>> fact that the originals are unable or unlikely to be enlarged and/or
> >>>> reproducible by the various owners of this, isn't of any account or
> >>>> concern.
> >>>> The fact that I left the original source labels on the file as a
> >>>>
> >> tribute
> >>
> >>>> to
> >>>> their original work, even though I went thru and cleaned up many of
the
> >>>> line
> >>>> work inaccuracies seems to be of negligible value... or concern.
> >>>>
> >>>> My only reason for doing this was due to the lack of precision in the
> >>>> original source work, and to provide a simple means where list
members
> >>>> could
> >>>> provide themselves with their own 36" by 48" wiring schematic. It
> >>>>
> >> needed
> >>
> >>>> to
> >>>> be sharpened, changed to a vector format, digitally rescanned such
that
> >>>> the
> >>>> line work became actual lines and no longer segments, and then
> >>>>
> >> digitally
> >>
> >>>> converted into a plotter friendly version such that Pantera owners
> >>>>
> >> could
> >>
> >>>> have them plotted to a large enough scale such that the linework no
> >>>>
> >> longer
> >>
> >>>> disappeared into confusion, at their local Staples or Kinko's. This
is
> >>>> what
> >>>> I did.
> >>>>
> >>>> And again, at NO benefit to myself, at a lot of time cost to
myself...
> >>>> that
> >>>> I would have much rather spent working on my Pantera.
> >>>>
> >>>> So the misguided attempt to repay all the great help and assistance
> >>>>
> >> that
> >>
> >>>> has
> >>>> been given to me over the years fails again.... I'm certainly not
going
> >>>>
> >> to
> >>
> >>>> argue with Mr Laughton as to his concerns, and financial
> >>>>
> >> justifications.
> >>
> >>>> There isn't enough time in the day as it is, to waste on something
like
> >>>> this. I'm sure he's doing what he thinks is correct, and I applaud
his
> >>>> time
> >>>> and efforts in supporting the Pantera community. Again I apologize to
> >>>>
> >> one
> >>
> >>>> and all.
> >>>>
> >>>> Chris
> >>>>
> >>>> Chris Difani
> >>>> '73 L #5829 "LITNNG"
> >>>> Sacramento, CA
> >>>> Email: cdifani at pacbell.net
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: "Asa Jay Laughton" <asajay at asajay.com>
> >>>> To: <detomaso at realbig.com>
> >>>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 7:37 AM
> >>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Wiring Schematic Files
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> I have requested the posted file be removed, since it was an
> >>>>> unauthorized copy of a POCA specific compilation of material.  The
> >>>>> release of this material is available from the POCA Club Store and
> >>>>>
> >> many
> >>
> >>>>> hours of work went into it.  This unauthorized release hurts the
> >>>>> membership at large by eliminating revenue streams.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If someone has a paper copy they wish to spend the time reproducing,
> >>>>> cleaning up and then making available to the membership, fine,
that's
> >>>>> your privilege.  But please don't go copying the work of others that
> >>>>>
> >> was
> >>
> >>>>> done in an effort to benefit the club.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thank you,
> >>>>> Asa Jay
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
> >>>>>
> >>>>> & Shelley Marie
> >>>>> Spokane, WA
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 1973 Pantera L 5533
> >>>>> [ASASCAT]
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ******************************
> >>>>> http://www.asajay.com
> >>>>> http://www.351c.info
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Chris Difani wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Guys:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> As a public service, and because I'm such a nice, all around good
> >>>>>>
> >> guy,
> >>
> >>>>>> I've created JPG files for the 4 "official" flavors of the
Pantera's
> >>>>>> wiring schematic. They're the early and late L series, and the Pre
L
> >>>>>> early and late versions. These come from the official POCA
> >>>>>>
> >> schematics,
> >>
> >>>>>> and were converted to image files from within Acrobat Pro, version
8.
> >>>>>> The
> >>>>>> resolution is pretty good, and the images are in the 4200 by 3200
> >>>>>>
> >> pixel
> >>
> >>>>>> size, which is in the range for plotting out to the 36" by 48"
size.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> To get these files "into" paper, the way I did it was to copy the
JPG
> >>>>>> file that I wanted (to a USB thumb drive, or flash drive), and take
> >>>>>>
> >> it
> >>
> >>>>>> to
> >>>>>> Staples Copy center. They can print up to 36" by 48" in black and
> >>>>>>
> >> white.
> >>
> >>>>>> I also had mine laminated, the 24" by 36" size can be laminated at
> >>>>>>
> >> the
> >>
> >>>>>> normal copy center, but the 36" by 48" size had to be sent to a
> >>>>>>
> >> Staples
> >>
> >>>>>> Hub Center. The cost for the lamination is two dollars per square
> >>>>>>
> >> foot,
> >>
> >>>>>> and the cost of printing is less than ten dollars per copy.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The JPG files are located on the You Send It download server. They
> >>>>>>
> >> are
> >>
> >>>>>> archived into a zip file, schematics.zip, which has these
individual
> >>>>>>
> >> JPG
> >>
> >>>>>> files in it:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Schematic Pantera L Early Version.jpg
> >>>>>> Schematic Pantera L Late Version.jpg
> >>>>>> Schematic Pre-L Early Version.jpg
> >>>>>> Schematic Pre-L Late Version.jpg
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Double click on this link (or copy it and paste it into your
> >>>>>>
> >> browser),
> >>
> >>>>>> and then follow the onscreen directions for downloading. This zip
> >>>>>>
> >> file
> >>
> >>>>>> will be there for 7 days, and can be downloaded 100 times.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://www.yousendit.com/download/WUJhYnV6Q0NIcWMwTVE9PQ
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> If you have any problems, or need any help, don't hesitate to
email,
> >>>>>> cdifani at pacbell.net
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Chris
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Chris Difani
> >>>>>> '73 L #5829 "LITNNG"
> >>>>>> Sacramento, CA
> >>>>>> Email: cdifani at pacbell.net
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>
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> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
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> >>>>
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