[DeTomaso] radiator

[MikeLDrew at aol.com]

In a message dated 7/25/07 10:05:13 AM, chrisvkimball at msn.com writes:


> I just got the word I need a new radiator for my '72.  The shop is going to
> see if they can get a replacement.  What sort of price should I consider
> "fair" or should I get something better, like a bigger, aluminum one from a
> pantera vendor and if so, how much more does that cost than a normal one?
> 

>>>You have basically two options (with some sub-options) available.   You 
either buy an off-the-shelf bolt-in Pantera radiator (either from a Pantera 
vendor or from a radiator vendor, those are the sub-options), or you have your 
existing radiator rebuilt with a new core.

For various reasons, I don't like aluminum radiators generally.   If an 
aluminum radiator is built like a conventional brass radiator (but in aluminum), it 
doesn't cool as effectively; the solution is to make it physically bigger 
than its brass counterpart.   Doing so negates much of the weight advantage 
associated with aluminum.

Radiator technology has improved greatly in recent years.   Docking, in the 
UK (their shop is located in the industrial park at Silverstone race track) has 
pushed the bar way, way up in terms of radiator design.   They make an 
aluminum radiator that is less than HALF the thickness (and thus weight) of the 
stock radiator, yet it cools better!   Don't ask me how they do it--I don't   
know.   They supply most of the radiators for the F1 teams so they are right at 
the cutting edge.   When I first saw them I was VERY skeptical, but after 
several of them have been installed in Panteras in the UK (including one with a 550 
hp stroker Windsor that is pushed hard), and they seem to work quite well.

They are very, very expensive.

Assuming that last bit struck a nerve, then your other off-the-shelf option 
that most Pantera vendors sell is the Fluidyne unit.   This thing works pretty 
well--when it works.   However, they have had a disturbing quality control 
issue; one vendor told me that he had a 20% return rate because they would spring 
leaks within six months, and he no longer stocks them because of this.   
Somebody else told me that Fluidyne recently moved their production over to China; 
the effect that had on quality remains to be seen.

The nice thing about a Fluidyne package is that it's simple.   If you are 
looking for a stock replacement setup, you can order it directly from Summit 
Racing, pop the old one out, drop the new one in, and away you go.   Presuming 
your existing radiator is stock, you will also have to buy new thermo switches to 
turn the radiator fans on.   The stock radiator uses an obsolete switch which 
is held in by three tiny nuts/studs, while the newer style simply thread into 
a fitting.

If you want to get a bit more radical, laying the radiator down and using 
sucker fans, then I would advise buying from one of the vendors.   This is 
because they modify the radiator itself and affix brackets to properly secure the 
radiator fans (as opposed to just relying on zip-ties through the core, which is 
an open invitation to leaks).

Dennis Quella has his own aluminum radiator package which incorporates a 
shroud and sucker fans; it works quite well at low speeds, but blocks airflow at 
high speeds.   If you are planning on extended 120+ mph running (i.e. Silver 
State etc.) you might run into problems.   The same is true of Larry Stock's 
Fluidyne setup with Flex-A-Lite sucker fans and a shroud; Johnny Woods found 
during extended 130-150 mph runs in rural France that his car would overheat as a 
result of airflow being blocked from exiting behind the radiator; he modified 
the shroud by making a bunch of opening flaps which cured the problem.

The major disadvantage I see to aluminumm radiators is that they are 
essentially impossible to repair.   You're singing down the road, a truck kicks up a 
rock, you spring a leak, you're done.   Whereas most towns have a 'radiator 
shop' that can easily repair a problem with a conventional brass-construction 
radiator.

Lately I've been advising people to consider having their existing radiator 
rebuilt, especially if the temp switches are still working.   The quality of 
the result is very much a function of the quality of the shop that does the 
work, but presuming they know their stuff, you can get an excellent radiator, 
which you KNOW fits into the car, and can be easily repaired, for less than the 
cost of one of the aluminum units.  Be sure to reference the Ford Technical 
Service Bulletin if yours is an earlier car (and I seem to remember that it is).   
The very early Pantera radiators had a built-in defect, rectified by changing 
the plumbing scheme within the end tank.   One of the TSBs gives explicit 
detail as to how the tank should be modified.   All cars made after early 1972 
came with the radiator already set up properly; mostly likely you will just be 
using the TSB to confirm the fact.

Finally, Marino Perna at Pantera East told me a few months ago that he's 
getting ready to put old-school, direct-replacement brass radiators back into 
production, after unending disatisfaction with the aluminum ones.   I don't have 
the details, but presume they are set up for modern temperature switches.   
When I asked him about price, he said they would be essentially the same as the 
Fluidyne radiators.

I don't know if Hall Pantera still stocks brass, bolt-in replacement 
radiators; that is what I have in my car, circa 1992 or so.   It seems to work quite 
well, although I did notice the temperature creeping up as speeds passed 120 
mph for any extended period.   I didn't have all the proper ducting/shrouds in 
place at that time, so I can't say for sure if that was part of the problem.

So, them's your choices!

Mike


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