[DeTomaso] Pantera Design Question

[Göran Malmberg]

I didnt catch the reason for the start of this discussion, just that somone
asked for  who designed the Pantera suspension. Then it appear like
there was  something bad with the system. The cars sold in the USA
with rised ride height, was definitley not recomended by mr Dallara.
If ride height is altered the Rc will, and  this upset the handling. The 
right
ride height is the one the car was originally  designed for, as fare as
mr Dallara is concerned.

I newer know that Dallara was the designer, but read the site about him
yesterday. If anyone remember I stated that the Countach used the same
geometry which now make sense. However, BMW M1 does the same
along with a number of other cars. Its about comon way of doing things,
at least for that period of  time.
So, this is nothing specific for the Pantera, but the spring balance is a
bit suited
for the car.

Even if we had the opportunity to speak with mr Dallara I dont thing we
should get a very good answer since this type of question has a number
of reasons involved, some less easy to explain and may even not be
allowed to make  public.
Also, we should get the answer according to the formulation of the
question. In general, I wouldnt talk about "improvement" since everything
is made to  suit a certain circumstances. A public car has a very public
setting, different  roads and weathers, and might by  that meaning be
optimal. If we like a little more "driver friedley" setting for sporty 
driving,
the  setting mentioned by JDR is quite ok. But what happen is that it will
create another using range of the car with a moost likley "narrower" band,
I couldnt tell  for sure.

Goran
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Göran Malmberg" <hemipanter at hemipanter.se>
To: <JDeRyke at aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pantera Design Question


>I didnt catch the reason for the start of this discussion, just that somone 
>asked
> for who designed the Pantera suspension. Then it appear like there was 
> something
> bad with the system. The cars sold in the USA with rised ride height, was 
> definitley
> not recomended by mr Dallara. If ride height is altered the Rc will, and 
> this upset
> the handling. The right ride height is the one the car was originally 
> designed for,
> as fare as mr Dallara is concerned.
>
> I newer know that Dallara was the designer, but read the site about him 
> yesterday.
> If anyone remember I stated that the Countach used the same geometry, 
> which
> now make sense. However, BMW M1 does the same along with a number of
> other cars. Its about comon way of doing things, at least for that period 
> of time.
> So, this is nothing specific for the Pantera, but the spring balance is a 
> bit suited
> for the car.
>
> Even if we had the opportunity to speak with mr Dallara I dont thing we 
> should
> get a very good answer since this type of question has a numbeer of 
> reasons
> involved, some less easy to explain and may even not be allowed to make 
> public.
> Also, we should get the answer according to the formulation of the 
> question.
>
> In general, I wouldnt talk about "improvement" since everything is made to 
> suit
> a certain circumstances. A public car has a VERY public setting, different 
> roads
> and weathers, and might by  that meaning be optimal.
> If we like a little more "driver friedley" setting for sporty driving, the 
> setting
> mentioned by JDR is quite ok. But what happen is that it will create 
> another
> using range of the car with a moost likley "narrower" band, I couldnt tell 
> for sure.
>
> Goran
>
>
>
> In a message dated 8/27/07 8:42:21 PM, pantera at pobox.com writes:
>
> <<...Ford told Detomaso to make it handle worse to keep people safe.  They
> figured that sliding at slower speeds was safer. My question is what did 
> they
> change to hamper the handling.... >>
>
> Not sure it was diabolically intentional by anyone, Dave, and I've never 
> met
> Dr Dallara, but If I ever do, I'll ask him about the following simple 
> things
> that are well known to each improve the Pantera's handling:
>
> A- add a 7/8" GTS solid rear swaybar (or a 1" hollow unit) while leaving 
> the
> stock front size alone.
> B- Lower the steering rack with spacers about 5/16" to correct bump-steer.
> C- increase stock caster from a max of 2.7 to at least 4.7 for more high
> speed stability and quicker self-correction. A 2 degree nose-down rake 
> helps too.
> D- remove the front and rear spring spacers added to U.S cars to raise the
> car for DOT headlight height requirements (since rescinded).
> E- add 1" of negative offset to the front wheels to reduce tire scrub in
> turns. This is easily done by adding another pair of stock 8" Campys to 
> the front
> and scrap the stock 7" Campys. Easier steering & less tire wear results.
>
> All these except the caster change were done at the factory to Euro-only 
> Gr-3
> street-legal Panteras- such as Mats Gorski's daily driver, and most were
> included in post-Ford-era Panteras; none require aftermarket parts (except 
> the
> hollow swaybars). All the above mods tend to make the Pantera more neutral
> handling, while I believe Ford felt that an understeering car like a 
> Galaxie sedan
> was safer on the street for the general U.S public. A neutral or 
> oversteering
> car, especially with a powerful engine, is far less forgiving for a tired 
> or
> inattentive driver.  My 2¢- J DeRyke
> <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> Get a sneak peek of 
> the all-new AOL at
> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour</HTML>
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