[DeTomaso] New Engine

Mad Dog Antenucci teampantera at yahoo.com
Tue Aug 14 19:09:00 EDT 2007


Everything is a consumable.
   
  md 
   
  Mark McWhinney <msm at portata.com> wrote:
  Guys like Bob, Larry, and you think of engines as consumables much like the
rest of us think of gas and oil! I'd bet that most Pantera owners change
their ZF oil less often than you rebuild and replace engines.

Mark -- OEM block head


-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] On
Behalf Of Mad Dog Antenucci
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 2:03 PM
To: Mark McWhinney; JDeRyke at aol.com; trevor at fougere.com;
detomaso at realbig.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] New Engine

Bobo,

You mean how many Cleveland's have I broke? 

3 engine blocks re-built 6 times over 22 years and 78,000 miles. That's 41
ORR's, at least 20 open track events and thousands of street miles. 

The Cleveland is the heart of the Pantera....Tear it out and you tear out
its venerable soul. 

Go ahead and break it but don't replace it.
if you don't like the answer read it again.

md
Mark McWhinney wrote:
How many engines have you had?


-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] On
Behalf Of Mad Dog Antenucci
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 12:57 PM
To: Mark McWhinney; JDeRyke at aol.com; trevor at fougere.com;
detomaso at realbig.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] New Engine

Short answer is a definate YES. 

md 



Mark McWhinney wrote:
Given Trevor's requirements, is a Cleveland block even in the running?

1) 430-500 HP
2) Durable
3) Streetable
4) Spirited driving with some drag runs 


-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] On
Behalf Of JDeRyke at aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 12:18 PM
To: trevor at fougere.com; detomaso at realbig.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] New Engine

In a message dated 8/14/07 1:06:51 AM, trevor at fougere.com writes:

<<....50% compression loss. Coolant in the oil. Coolant in the exhaust.
The 
same cylinder that necessitated a rebuild approx 3-5,000 miles and two
owners 
ago. Haven't taken the heads off yet, but I'm expecting more bad news.....
>>

Worst case- start looking for a new core-engine now; coolant in the oil very

likely means the cylinder wall is cracked, or (less likely) a head is
cracked. 
A 50% compression drop may mean a thin piece of cylinder wall has blown into

the water jacket; this happened to us with a silver-dollar sized chunk of
wall 
during a competition event, from a simple backfire on an engine bored 
0.030-over. Ford said that Clevelands should not be overbored AT ALL and
only offered 
0.003-over pistons for home-fitting. 

Once you find a block, have it cleaned and sonic-checked for thin cylinder 
walls. Wall thicknesses below 0.080" means the thing is only safe to use in
a 
truck or as a lawn ornament, not as a high-horsepower engine. Most
previously 
overbored blocks are in this category. Blocks with enough wall thickness
these 
days are few & far between- see the archives thread by Pat Orlando, Allan 
Foster and others who lost 351-Cs and had to spend much time finding a
suitable 
core to work with. Many cautious owners have stockpiled a couple of good 
core-engines for such future disasters. 
Also, changing to a 351W does not guarantee the thin-block syndrome will not

reoccur. Sonic-test all Fords! And find a builder who is familiar with the 
peculiarities of the early-'70s Ford V-8s. 
Good luck (or at least better luck than you've recently had!) -J DeRyke



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Mad Dawg Antenucci 
Team Pantera Racing 
The 1st & still the only vintage race team in open road racing 
www.teampanteraracing.com
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www.teampanteraracing.com
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Team Pantera Racing 
  The 1st & still the only vintage race team in open road racing 
www.teampanteraracing.com



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