Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum
"You seem to be someone bound and determined to stir up trouble, up until now, I have tried to remain quiet, in your last diatribe, I think it was "until Michael Shortt stops messing with me" or something to that effect, you would stop having these fits of verbal and textual diarrhea. Frankly, I haven't given you another thought, you simply are not part of any equation on my worksheet. You simply are a waste of my time which could be better used for something to benefit the membership instead of dealing with what seems to be a clinically depressed, anti social personality type addicted to drama. That's changed, at the next BOD meeting I will be seeking to censure you as a member for violating our policies, for sharing BOD working emails and for not working within channels. I believe in an earlier email, Ed made the process very clear, go through your Chapter President or contact one of us directly, instead of posting your failures and inability to comprehend structure and civility. If you make another very poor decision to continue these actions, I will seek a second censure in 30 days and ask to remove you from this club. I am not the only one tried of your behavior, there are enough votes now in place to secure both outcomes. This is the last time that I will ask you to become a team player and use your energies to help make POCA a better club instead of trying to destroy it from within. Michael Shortt President POCA" Wow! Really? I thought this was a car club?
On Jun 6, 2016, at 8:42 AM, Rod Kunishige <rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote:
Am I to be removed from the POCA? Rod
From: michaelsavga@gmail.com Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 09:34:45 -0400 Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum To: rkunishige@hotmail.com CC: jpoca2@hotmail.com; JDeRyke@aol.com; MBGlobalSc@aol.com; jb841@cox.net; RREIDCPA@aol.com; paso750@gmail.com; qrtlow@gmail.com; edducati@mac.com
Mr. Kunishige,
It appears the theme of a nicer, more friendly, and organized POCA which operates through channels escapes you.
It also appears a sitting BOD member is sharing BOD ONLY emails with you, that member should know that when I find them out, I will put forth a motion to censure them for violating BOD policy.
Since you are not an elected member of the BOD, you are not entitled to our work emails, discussions or methodologies used to arrive at how we do business, once formatted, discussed amongst ourselves, these same issues are put forth in an agenda, discussed during an Open BOD meeting where all members can hear how we take care of business. I think with the exception of the last 3 minutes of the last BOD meeting, it was an excellent example of how civil discourse can happen even between people with disparate points of view.
It is called a process, nothing happens by itself, I think the last 10 years of POCA pretty much proves that point.
In regard to your past, an inability to maintain a job or to operate a business successfully relates to our situation how? While owning a toy store would be a dream for somebody like me, everybody knows that 4 out of 5 new businesses fail in the first year and of those, 4 out of 5 will never see a fifth year, so your chance of still operating a toy store for five years was only 10% at best. Here is why most new businesses fail.
1 Incompetence 46 % Emotional Pricing
Living too high for the business
Nonpayment of taxes
No knowledge of pricing
Lack of planning
No knowledge of financing
No experience in record-keeping 2 Unbalanced Experience or Lack of Managerial Experience 30 % Poor credit granting practices
Expansion too rapid
Inadequate borrowing practices 3 Lack of Experiences in line of goods or services 11 % Carry inadequate inventory
No knowledge of suppliers
Wasted advertising budget 5 Neglect, fraud, disaster 1 %
Nobody judges you, we have all had failures, if you don't try, that's the biggest failure of all.
You seem to be someone bound and determined to stir up trouble, up until now, I have tried to remain quiet, in your last diatribe, I think it was "until Michael Shortt stops messing with me" or something to that effect, you would stop having these fits of verbal and textual diarrhea.
Frankly, I haven't given you another thought, you simply are not part of any equation on my worksheet.
You simply are a waste of my time which could be better used for something to benefit the membership instead of dealing with what seems to be a clinically depressed, anti social personality type addicted to drama.
That's changed, at the next BOD meeting I will be seeking to censure you as a member for violating our policies, for sharing BOD working emails and for not working within channels. I believe in an earlier email, Ed made the process very clear, go through your Chapter President or contact one of us directly, instead of posting your failures and inability to comprehend structure and civility.
If you make another very poor decision to continue these actions, I will seek a second censure in 30 days and ask to remove you from this club.
I am not the only one tried of your behavior, there are enough votes now in place to secure both outcomes.
This is the last time that I will ask you to become a team player and use your energies to help make POCA a better club instead of trying to destroy it from within.
Michael Shortt President POCA
This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you
On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 6:22 AM, Ed Mendez <edducati@mac.com> wrote: What part of “the email list should not be used to discuss POCA business”, "bring your grievances to your chapter president”, and “take it offline” did you not understand?
By you copying members and non members of POCA on this email list with your grievances, and personal issues with Michael Shortt; you are placing the whole club in a negative light. This is adversely effecting the clubs ability to recruit new members.
Copying the BOD.
Kind regards,
Ed
On 6/06/2016, at 10:11, Rod Kunishige <rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ed Menedez,
You say that facts are clearly important to you.
So, let me quote you some snippets taken directly from MS May 16, 2016 email Subject: Newsletter and Profiles printing/design henceforth:
O/ Meanwhile, as a part of this change will also come full color printing on all pages in both the Newsletter / Profiles, a new printer, and mailing partner.
O/ The existing printer will not print anything else for POCA after the June newsletter.
O/ Your new printing partner is PrintingCenterUSA,
O/ effective immediately we will begin to adopt layout designs/templa tes which will dedicate 20% of the total space to advertising content display. the Newsletter needs to be 32 total pages each month, 5 pages in total space needs to be evenly distributed in 1/8 page, 1/4, 1/3. & 1/2 page horitzontal ads and 1/2 page vertical ads plus a full page ad.
O/ You will need to coordinate with Ed with proofs so that he will have the final say on ad placement before adthing is printed.
O/ The vendor listings are to be removed. They will have to buy ads to reach our memb ers.
O/ We also need to use ONLY the newly revised/cleaned up POCA Road Script and POCA crest.
Completely detailed specifications are also set as fixed space allocations for both pubs without consideration for content adjustments.
My view is that these are clearly directives not suggestions to consider to fellow POCA Board Members.
Ed, should you wish to challenge these facts, Ill be most pleased to publish the email in its entirety so everyone may view it within its full context. NOTE: There seems to be a need to know the qualifications of the writers who post here. So, let me explain that my career of 35 years was in Information Technology ending as VP of IT. I also owned and operated a mailing house directing publications in the SF Bay Area for 4 years and owned and operated a 9,000 sq ft independent Toy Store for 5 years. Hope this helps the readers who wish to know my background. I LOVE this club and vendors. Its members have helped me throughout the decades. Rod _______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
--
Michael L. Shortt Savannah, Georgia www.michaelshortt.com michael@michaelshortt.com 912-232-9390
This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you
"You seem to be someone bound and determined to stir up trouble, up until now, I have tried to remain quiet, in your last diatribe, I think it was "until Michael Shortt stops messing with me" or something to that effect, you would stop having these fits of verbal and textual diarrhea. Frankly, I haven't given you another thought, you simply are not part of any equation on my worksheet. You simply are a waste of my time which could be better used for something to benefit the membership instead of dealing with what seems to be a clinically depressed, anti social personality type addicted to drama. That's changed, at the next BOD meeting I will be seeking to censure you as a member for violating our policies, for sharing BOD working emails and for not working within channels. I believe in an earlier email, Ed made the process very clear, go through your Chapter President or contact one of us directly, instead of posting your failures and inability to comprehend structure and civility. If you make another very poor decision to continue these actions, I will seek a second censure in 30 days and ask to remove you from this club. I am not the only one tried of your behavior, there are enough votes now in place to secure both outcomes. This is the last time that I will ask you to become a team player and use your energies to help make POCA a better club instead of trying to destroy it from within. Michael Shortt President POCA" Wow! Really? I thought this was a car club? On Jun 6, 2016, at 8:42 AM, Rod Kunishige <[1]rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote: Am I to be removed from the POCA? Rod __________________________________________________________________ From: [2]michaelsavga@gmail.com Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 09:34:45 -0400 Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum To: [3]rkunishige@hotmail.com CC: [4]jpoca2@hotmail.com; [5]JDeRyke@aol.com; [6]MBGlobalSc@aol.com; [7]jb841@cox.net; [8]RREIDCPA@aol.com; [9]paso750@gmail.com; [10]qrtlow@gmail.com; [11]edducati@mac.com Mr. Kunishige, It appears the theme of a nicer, more friendly, and organized POCA which operates through channels escapes you. It also appears a sitting BOD member is sharing BOD ONLY emails with you, that member should know that when I find them out, I will put forth a motion to censure them for violating BOD policy. Since you are not an elected member of the BOD, you are not entitled to our work emails, discussions or methodologies used to arrive at how we do business, once formatted, discussed amongst ourselves, these same issues are put forth in an agenda, discussed during an Open BOD meeting where all members can hear how we take care of business. I think with the exception of the last 3 minutes of the last BOD meeting, it was an excellent example of how civil discourse can happen even between people with disparate points of view. It is called a process, nothing happens by itself, I think the last 10 years of POCA pretty much proves that point. In regard to your past, an inability to maintain a job or to operate a business successfully relates to our situation how? While owning a toy store would be a dream for somebody like me, everybody knows that 4 out of 5 new businesses fail in the first year and of those, 4 out of 5 will never see a fifth year, so your chance of still operating a toy store for five years was only 10% at best. Here is why most new businesses fail. 1 Incompetence 46 % Emotional Pricing Living too high for the business Nonpayment of taxes No knowledge of pricing Lack of planning No knowledge of financing No experience in record-keeping 2 Unbalanced Experience or Lack of Managerial Experience 30 % Poor credit granting practices Expansion too rapid Inadequate borrowing practices 3 Lack of Experiences in line of goods or services 11 % Carry inadequate inventory No knowledge of suppliers Wasted advertising budget 5 Neglect, fraud, disaster 1 % Nobody judges you, we have all had failures, if you don't try, that's the biggest failure of all. You seem to be someone bound and determined to stir up trouble, up until now, I have tried to remain quiet, in your last diatribe, I think it was "until Michael Shortt stops messing with me" or something to that effect, you would stop having these fits of verbal and textual diarrhea. Frankly, I haven't given you another thought, you simply are not part of any equation on my worksheet. You simply are a waste of my time which could be better used for something to benefit the membership instead of dealing with what seems to be a clinically depressed, anti social personality type addicted to drama. That's changed, at the next BOD meeting I will be seeking to censure you as a member for violating our policies, for sharing BOD working emails and for not working within channels. I believe in an earlier email, Ed made the process very clear, go through your Chapter President or contact one of us directly, instead of posting your failures and inability to comprehend structure and civility. If you make another very poor decision to continue these actions, I will seek a second censure in 30 days and ask to remove you from this club. I am not the only one tried of your behavior, there are enough votes now in place to secure both outcomes. This is the last time that I will ask you to become a team player and use your energies to help make POCA a better club instead of trying to destroy it from within. Michael Shortt President POCA This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 6:22 AM, Ed Mendez <[12]edducati@mac.com> wrote: What part of "the email list should not be used to discuss POCA business", "bring your grievances to your chapter president", and "take it offline" did you not understand? By you copying members and non members of POCA on this email list with your grievances, and personal issues with Michael Shortt; you are placing the whole club in a negative light. This is adversely effecting the clubs ability to recruit new members. Copying the BOD. Kind regards, Ed > On 6/06/2016, at 10:11, Rod Kunishige <[13]rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Ed Menedez, > > You say that facts are clearly important to you. > > So, let me quote you some snippets taken directly from MS May 16, 2016 > email Subject: Newsletter and Profiles printing/design henceforth: > > O/ Meanwhile, as a part of this change will also come full color > printing on all pages in both the Newsletter / Profiles, a new printer, > and mailing partner. > > O/ The existing printer will not print anything else for POCA > after the June newsletter. > > O/ Your new printing partner is PrintingCenterUSA, > > O/ effective immediately we will begin to adopt layout > designs/templa tes which will dedicate 20% of the total space to > advertising content display. > the Newsletter needs to be 32 total pages each month, 5 pages in total > space needs to be evenly distributed in 1/8 page, 1/4, 1/3. & 1/2 page > horitzontal ads and 1/2 page vertical ads plus a full page ad. > > O/ You will need to coordinate with Ed with proofs so that he will > have the final say on ad placement before adthing is printed. > > O/ The vendor listings are to be removed. They will have to buy > ads to reach our memb ers. > > O/ We also need to use ONLY the newly revised/cleaned up POCA Road > Script and POCA crest. > > Completely detailed specifications are also set as fixed space > allocations for both pubs without consideration for content > adjustments. > > My view is that these are clearly directives not suggestions to > consider to fellow POCA Board Members. > > Ed, should you wish to challenge these facts, Ill be most pleased to > publish the email in its entirety so everyone may view it within its > full context. > NOTE: There seems to be a need to know the qualifications of the > writers who post here. So, let me explain that my career of 35 years > was in Information Technology ending as VP of IT. I also owned and > operated a mailing house directing publications in the SF Bay Area for > 4 years and owned and operated a 9,000 sq ft independent Toy Store for > 5 years. Hope this helps the readers who wish to know my background. I > LOVE this club and vendors. Its members have helped me throughout the > decades. > Rod > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > [14]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > [15]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. -- Michael L. Shortt Savannah, Georgia [16]www.michaelshortt.com [17]michael@michaelshortt.com 912-232-9390 This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you References 1. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 2. mailto:michaelsavga@gmail.com 3. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 4. mailto:jpoca2@hotmail.com 5. mailto:JDeRyke@aol.com 6. mailto:MBGlobalSc@aol.com 7. mailto:jb841@cox.net 8. mailto:RREIDCPA@aol.com 9. mailto:paso750@gmail.com 10. mailto:qrtlow@gmail.com 11. mailto:edducati@mac.com 12. mailto:edducati@mac.com 13. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 14. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 15. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 16. http://www.michaelshortt.com/ 17. mailto:michael@michaelshortt.com
Rod -- you are always welcome here. Thank you for your many years of contributions to POCA and the greater DeTomaso community. ------ Original Message ------ From: "Scott Couchman via DeTomaso" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To: "Rod Kunishige" <rkunishige@hotmail.com> Cc: "<detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: 6/6/2016 5:30:27 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum
"You seem to be someone bound and determined to stir up trouble, up until now, I have tried to remain quiet, in your last diatribe, I think it was "until Michael Shortt stops messing with me" or something to that effect, you would stop having these fits of verbal and textual diarrhea.
Frankly, I haven't given you another thought, you simply are not part of any equation on my worksheet.
You simply are a waste of my time which could be better used for something to benefit the membership instead of dealing with what seems to be a clinically depressed, anti social personality type addicted to drama.
That's changed, at the next BOD meeting I will be seeking to censure you as a member for violating our policies, for sharing BOD working emails and for not working within channels. I believe in an earlier email, Ed made the process very clear, go through your Chapter President or contact one of us directly, instead of posting your failures and inability to comprehend structure and civility.
If you make another very poor decision to continue these actions, I will seek a second censure in 30 days and ask to remove you from this club.
I am not the only one tried of your behavior, there are enough votes now in place to secure both outcomes.
This is the last time that I will ask you to become a team player and use your energies to help make POCA a better club instead of trying to destroy it from within.
Michael Shortt President POCA"
Wow! Really? I thought this was a car club?
On Jun 6, 2016, at 8:42 AM, Rod Kunishige <rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote:
Am I to be removed from the POCA? Rod
From: michaelsavga@gmail.com Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 09:34:45 -0400 Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum To: rkunishige@hotmail.com CC: jpoca2@hotmail.com; JDeRyke@aol.com; MBGlobalSc@aol.com; jb841@cox.net; RREIDCPA@aol.com; paso750@gmail.com; qrtlow@gmail.com; edducati@mac.com
Mr. Kunishige,
It appears the theme of a nicer, more friendly, and organized POCA which operates through channels escapes you.
It also appears a sitting BOD member is sharing BOD ONLY emails with you, that member should know that when I find them out, I will put forth a motion to censure them for violating BOD policy.
Since you are not an elected member of the BOD, you are not entitled to our work emails, discussions or methodologies used to arrive at how we do business, once formatted, discussed amongst ourselves, these same issues are put forth in an agenda, discussed during an Open BOD meeting where all members can hear how we take care of business. I think with the exception of the last 3 minutes of the last BOD meeting, it was an excellent example of how civil discourse can happen even between people with disparate points of view.
It is called a process, nothing happens by itself, I think the last 10 years of POCA pretty much proves that point.
In regard to your past, an inability to maintain a job or to operate a business successfully relates to our situation how? While owning a toy store would be a dream for somebody like me, everybody knows that 4 out of 5 new businesses fail in the first year and of those, 4 out of 5 will never see a fifth year, so your chance of still operating a toy store for five years was only 10% at best. Here is why most new businesses fail.
1 Incompetence 46 % Emotional Pricing
Living too high for the business
Nonpayment of taxes
No knowledge of pricing
Lack of planning
No knowledge of financing
No experience in record-keeping 2 Unbalanced Experience or Lack of Managerial Experience 30 % Poor credit granting practices
Expansion too rapid
Inadequate borrowing practices 3 Lack of Experiences in line of goods or services 11 % Carry inadequate inventory
No knowledge of suppliers
Wasted advertising budget 5 Neglect, fraud, disaster 1 %
Nobody judges you, we have all had failures, if you don't try, that's the biggest failure of all.
You seem to be someone bound and determined to stir up trouble, up until now, I have tried to remain quiet, in your last diatribe, I think it was "until Michael Shortt stops messing with me" or something to that effect, you would stop having these fits of verbal and textual diarrhea.
Frankly, I haven't given you another thought, you simply are not part of any equation on my worksheet.
You simply are a waste of my time which could be better used for something to benefit the membership instead of dealing with what seems to be a clinically depressed, anti social personality type addicted to drama.
That's changed, at the next BOD meeting I will be seeking to censure you as a member for violating our policies, for sharing BOD working emails and for not working within channels. I believe in an earlier email, Ed made the process very clear, go through your Chapter President or contact one of us directly, instead of posting your failures and inability to comprehend structure and civility.
If you make another very poor decision to continue these actions, I will seek a second censure in 30 days and ask to remove you from this club.
I am not the only one tried of your behavior, there are enough votes now in place to secure both outcomes.
This is the last time that I will ask you to become a team player and use your energies to help make POCA a better club instead of trying to destroy it from within.
Michael Shortt President POCA
This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you
On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 6:22 AM, Ed Mendez <edducati@mac.com> wrote: What part of “the email list should not be used to discuss POCA business”, "bring your grievances to your chapter president”, and “take it offline” did you not understand?
By you copying members and non members of POCA on this email list with your grievances, and personal issues with Michael Shortt; you are placing the whole club in a negative light. This is adversely effecting the clubs ability to recruit new members.
Copying the BOD.
Kind regards,
Ed
On 6/06/2016, at 10:11, Rod Kunishige <rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ed Menedez,
You say that facts are clearly important to you.
So, let me quote you some snippets taken directly from MS May 16, 2016 email Subject: Newsletter and Profiles printing/design henceforth:
O/ Meanwhile, as a part of this change will also come full
color > printing on all pages in both the Newsletter / Profiles, a new printer, > and mailing partner. > > O/ The existing printer will not print anything else for POCA > after the June newsletter. > > O/ Your new printing partner is PrintingCenterUSA, > > O/ effective immediately we will begin to adopt layout > designs/templa tes which will dedicate 20% of the total space to > advertising content display. > the Newsletter needs to be 32 total pages each month, 5 pages in total > space needs to be evenly distributed in 1/8 page, 1/4, 1/3. & 1/2 page > horitzontal ads and 1/2 page vertical ads plus a full page ad. > > O/ You will need to coordinate with Ed with proofs so that he will > have the final say on ad placement before adthing is printed. > > O/ The vendor listings are to be removed. They will have to buy > ads to reach our memb ers. > > O/ We also need to use ONLY the newly revised/cleaned up POCA Road > Script and POCA crest. > > Completely detailed specifications are also set as fixed space > allocations for both pubs without consideration for content > adjustments. > > My view is that these are clearly directives not suggestions to > consider to fellow POCA Board Members. > > Ed, should you wish to challenge these facts, Ill be most pleased to > publish the email in its entirety so everyone may view it within its > full context. > NOTE: There seems to be a need to know the qualifications of the > writers who post here. So, let me explain that my career of 35 years > was in Information Technology ending as VP of IT. I also owned and > operated a mailing house directing publications in the SF Bay Area for > 4 years and owned and operated a 9,000 sq ft independent Toy Store for > 5 years. Hope this helps the readers who wish to know my background. I > LOVE this club and vendors. Its members have helped me throughout the > decades. > Rod > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
--
Michael L. Shortt Savannah, Georgia www.michaelshortt.com michael@michaelshortt.com 912-232-9390
This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you
I'd like to take a moment to give thanks you's to a whole lot of people, too numerous to name actually, who have contributed to the overall Pantera ownership experience. It all starts with real people, the kind who actually know things about the cars; and more importantly know the -right- things about the cars, and other people. Perhaps even more important in a forum like this is the breadth of knowledge and the choices of potential fixes or solutions one can choose from, all most certainly from learned people. I'd also like to a put a thank you out to George Pence of the PI forum. Yes, I too really miss the awesome magazine coming to my inbox. I really started missing it after the really awesome last couple of issues. I miss a bit more interaction with PI too, but I will say say this, the PI forum is another awesome car forum on the Internet. No, I don't frequent it, but it's easy to see it gets attention, and from a large group of people who don't frequent this email list. The PI forum has filled that niche for several years and has a good amount of great information on the Pantera and other DeTomaso automobiles in addition to other banter. Yes, it's moderated and some folks have found themselves banned from the forum... well, that's his call, but my thanks are still in place for continuing to provide an alternative for Pantera owners. The Pantera Vendors. A Big thank you to those business owners who have stuck with the Pantera for decades. I recently heard that if you have a broken down 80's Countach, that there is only ONE guy in the entire US that can repair the on-board electronic computer to make it run again. Really? In the Pantera world we have several vendors who can get you just about anything and talk you through just about any repair over the phone. These people are fantastic. Could we spend more? Maybe, but sending them a little money now and then for good parts and service will help ensure they stay in business. POCA, the one Pantera club that's outlasted them all. A yearly Fun Rally where you'll see more Panteras than a dealer ever did. Reprinted publications that you can buy and refer to in your garage, a monthly newsletter and quarterly magazine to remind you once a month and once a quarter that you've got something special parked in your garage. The one point I'd like to make here is that behind all of this are the people who make it all happen. There are some names in the Pantera world that many will recognize, and not because they sought any sort of fame but because they have contributed time, energy, personal experience and a "passion" for building relationships centered around the Pantera: Gary Hall Dennis Quella Steve Wilkinson Larry Stock Jack DeRyke (what doesn't he know?) Ted Mitchell (who knew everything before Jack did, I think) Judy McCartney (membership lady!) Rod Kunishige (database man!) Dan Jones (more than I could ever hope to know about 351C engines) Mike Drew (left Jay Leno speechless) Les Gray (past president of POCA multiple times) Kent and Sandi Snyder (I've affectionately referred to them as Mr and Mrs. Fun Rally :) Bob Reid Bill Van Ess (first published Pantera registry) George Pence Marino Perna Tony Harvey (Drive-it) Mark McWhinney Curt Toumanian Dennis Antenucci ... and I'm sure a whole lot more. These are the kind of people who built relationships to expand the passion of Pantera ownership. These are the kind of people who want to continue in that regard as well. Are there, and will there be differing opinions and personalities? Yes, there always will be, but it's how we interact with others that measures our true integrity. How do we treat people in private as well as public? I myself have had some heated words in the past that were made in haste, and I've had to come back around and apologize for them. I think each "bad" interaction helps teach me more about the person I'm supposed to be, rather than the nasty person I know I could be. I think that is the measure of our integrity, do we learn from our mistakes, have we told the truth, can we stand behind what we've said? Can we muster the necessary humility when needed? Some can, some can't. Without the kind relationships I built through many if not most if not actually ALL the people I listed above, I would not have enjoyed owning my Pantera and having as much fun with it as I could. It truly is the owner-community that makes it all worth while (for me anyway), not just some web site, not just some email forum, not just a fun rally, or newsletters, or quarterly magazine. All those things contribute to the experience, but without the people..... I might as well own a Yugo. I think at this point, most folks have formed an opinion of current POCA leadership, good or bad. I think those who care have probably said their peace. To that end, I think we've exhausted the illustration of what's happening and I'd like to perhaps give a gentle reminder that in the words of Michael Shortt himself something like only 2% of actual POCA members frequent this list. I can respect those who have wanted to air their grievances and I think some have done so in far better fashion than others. I'd like to encourage us all to find our Pantera voices again and stimulate some good old fashion bench racing or problem solving. Oh.... and note that I do not share in any moderation duties of this list anymore. Kurt has a good handle on it and knows where to go if he ever needs help. Get to it! Asa Jay Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired & Shelley Marie Spokane, WA ****************************** http://w7tsc.org http://www.teampanteraracing.com On 6/6/2016 5:53 PM, msm@portata.com wrote:
Rod -- you are always welcome here. Thank you for your many years of contributions to POCA and the greater DeTomaso community.
Beautifully written Asa Jay. Your name belongs on that list too! Thank you, Kurt and everyone else (listed and not) who makes a positive contribution to DeTomaso ownership. Many of the owners I have met over the years have become life-long friends and have added immeasurably to my personal enrichment. Mark Charlton pantera01826@rogers.com On Jun 6, 2016, at 11:57 PM, Asa Jay Laughton <asajay@asajay.com> wrote:
I'd like to take a moment to give thanks you's to a whole lot of people, too numerous to name actually, who have contributed to the overall Pantera ownership experience. It all starts with real people, the kind who actually know things about the cars; and more importantly know the -right- things about the cars, and other people. Perhaps even more important in a forum like this is the breadth of knowledge and the choices of potential fixes or solutions one can choose from, all most certainly from learned people.
I'd also like to a put a thank you out to George Pence of the PI forum. Yes, I too really miss the awesome magazine coming to my inbox. I really started missing it after the really awesome last couple of issues. I miss a bit more interaction with PI too, but I will say say this, the PI forum is another awesome car forum on the Internet. No, I don't frequent it, but it's easy to see it gets attention, and from a large group of people who don't frequent this email list. The PI forum has filled that niche for several years and has a good amount of great information on the Pantera and other DeTomaso automobiles in addition to other banter. Yes, it's moderated and some folks have found themselves banned from the forum... well, that's his call, but my thanks are still in place for continuing to provide an alternative for Pantera owners.
The Pantera Vendors. A Big thank you to those business owners who have stuck with the Pantera for decades. I recently heard that if you have a broken down 80's Countach, that there is only ONE guy in the entire US that can repair the on-board electronic computer to make it run again. Really? In the Pantera world we have several vendors who can get you just about anything and talk you through just about any repair over the phone. These people are fantastic. Could we spend more? Maybe, but sending them a little money now and then for good parts and service will help ensure they stay in business.
POCA, the one Pantera club that's outlasted them all. A yearly Fun Rally where you'll see more Panteras than a dealer ever did. Reprinted publications that you can buy and refer to in your garage, a monthly newsletter and quarterly magazine to remind you once a month and once a quarter that you've got something special parked in your garage.
The one point I'd like to make here is that behind all of this are the people who make it all happen. There are some names in the Pantera world that many will recognize, and not because they sought any sort of fame but because they have contributed time, energy, personal experience and a "passion" for building relationships centered around the Pantera:
Gary Hall Dennis Quella Steve Wilkinson Larry Stock Jack DeRyke (what doesn't he know?) Ted Mitchell (who knew everything before Jack did, I think) Judy McCartney (membership lady!) Rod Kunishige (database man!) Dan Jones (more than I could ever hope to know about 351C engines) Mike Drew (left Jay Leno speechless) Les Gray (past president of POCA multiple times) Kent and Sandi Snyder (I've affectionately referred to them as Mr and Mrs. Fun Rally :) Bob Reid Bill Van Ess (first published Pantera registry) George Pence Marino Perna Tony Harvey (Drive-it) Mark McWhinney Curt Toumanian Dennis Antenucci
... and I'm sure a whole lot more. These are the kind of people who built relationships to expand the passion of Pantera ownership. These are the kind of people who want to continue in that regard as well.
Are there, and will there be differing opinions and personalities? Yes, there always will be, but it's how we interact with others that measures our true integrity. How do we treat people in private as well as public?
I myself have had some heated words in the past that were made in haste, and I've had to come back around and apologize for them. I think each "bad" interaction helps teach me more about the person I'm supposed to be, rather than the nasty person I know I could be. I think that is the measure of our integrity, do we learn from our mistakes, have we told the truth, can we stand behind what we've said? Can we muster the necessary humility when needed?
Some can, some can't.
Without the kind relationships I built through many if not most if not actually ALL the people I listed above, I would not have enjoyed owning my Pantera and having as much fun with it as I could. It truly is the owner-community that makes it all worth while (for me anyway), not just some web site, not just some email forum, not just a fun rally, or newsletters, or quarterly magazine. All those things contribute to the experience, but without the people..... I might as well own a Yugo.
I think at this point, most folks have formed an opinion of current POCA leadership, good or bad. I think those who care have probably said their peace. To that end, I think we've exhausted the illustration of what's happening and I'd like to perhaps give a gentle reminder that in the words of Michael Shortt himself something like only 2% of actual POCA members frequent this list.
I can respect those who have wanted to air their grievances and I think some have done so in far better fashion than others. I'd like to encourage us all to find our Pantera voices again and stimulate some good old fashion bench racing or problem solving. Oh.... and note that I do not share in any moderation duties of this list anymore. Kurt has a good handle on it and knows where to go if he ever needs help.
Get to it! Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired & Shelley Marie Spokane, WA ****************************** http://w7tsc.org http://www.teampanteraracing.com
On 6/6/2016 5:53 PM, msm@portata.com wrote:
Rod -- you are always welcome here. Thank you for your many years of contributions to POCA and the greater DeTomaso community.
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
I'd like to take a moment to give thanks you's to a whole lot of people, too numerous to name actually, who have contributed to the overall Pantera ownership experience. It all starts with real people, the kind who actually know things about the cars; and more importantly know the -right- things about the cars, and other people. Perhaps even more important in a forum
Ditto and Amen to all that was said! Larry - Cleveland -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Mark Charlton Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 11:53 AM To: Asa Jay Laughton Cc: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Thank you's to a lot of people (Was: POCA businesson this forum) Beautifully written Asa Jay. Your name belongs on that list too! Thank you, Kurt and everyone else (listed and not) who makes a positive contribution to DeTomaso ownership. Many of the owners I have met over the years have become life-long friends and have added immeasurably to my personal enrichment. Mark Charlton pantera01826@rogers.com On Jun 6, 2016, at 11:57 PM, Asa Jay Laughton <asajay@asajay.com> wrote: like this is the breadth of knowledge and the choices of potential fixes or solutions one can choose from, all most certainly from learned people.
I'd also like to a put a thank you out to George Pence of the PI forum.
Yes, I too really miss the awesome magazine coming to my inbox. I really started missing it after the really awesome last couple of issues. I miss a bit more interaction with PI too, but I will say say this, the PI forum is another awesome car forum on the Internet. No, I don't frequent it, but it's easy to see it gets attention, and from a large group of people who don't frequent this email list. The PI forum has filled that niche for several years and has a good amount of great information on the Pantera and other DeTomaso automobiles in addition to other banter. Yes, it's moderated and some folks have found themselves banned from the forum... well, that's his call, but my thanks are still in place for continuing to provide an alternative for Pantera owners.
The Pantera Vendors. A Big thank you to those business owners who have
stuck with the Pantera for decades. I recently heard that if you have a broken down 80's Countach, that there is only ONE guy in the entire US that can repair the on-board electronic computer to make it run again. Really? In the Pantera world we have several vendors who can get you just about anything and talk you through just about any repair over the phone. These people are fantastic. Could we spend more? Maybe, but sending them a little money now and then for good parts and service will help ensure they stay in business.
POCA, the one Pantera club that's outlasted them all. A yearly Fun Rally
where you'll see more Panteras than a dealer ever did. Reprinted publications that you can buy and refer to in your garage, a monthly newsletter and quarterly magazine to remind you once a month and once a quarter that you've got something special parked in your garage.
The one point I'd like to make here is that behind all of this are the
people who make it all happen. There are some names in the Pantera world that many will recognize, and not because they sought any sort of fame but because they have contributed time, energy, personal experience and a "passion" for building relationships centered around the Pantera:
Gary Hall Dennis Quella Steve Wilkinson Larry Stock Jack DeRyke (what doesn't he know?) Ted Mitchell (who knew everything before Jack did, I think) Judy McCartney (membership lady!) Rod Kunishige (database man!) Dan Jones (more than I could ever hope to know about 351C engines) Mike Drew (left Jay Leno speechless) Les Gray (past president of POCA multiple times) Kent and Sandi Snyder (I've affectionately referred to them as Mr and Mrs.
Bob Reid Bill Van Ess (first published Pantera registry) George Pence Marino Perna Tony Harvey (Drive-it) Mark McWhinney Curt Toumanian Dennis Antenucci
... and I'm sure a whole lot more. These are the kind of people who built relationships to expand the passion of Pantera ownership. These are the kind of people who want to continue in that regard as well.
Are there, and will there be differing opinions and personalities? Yes,
Fun Rally :) there always will be, but it's how we interact with others that measures our true integrity. How do we treat people in private as well as public?
I myself have had some heated words in the past that were made in haste,
and I've had to come back around and apologize for them. I think each "bad" interaction helps teach me more about the person I'm supposed to be, rather than the nasty person I know I could be. I think that is the measure of our integrity, do we learn from our mistakes, have we told the truth, can we stand behind what we've said? Can we muster the necessary humility when needed?
Some can, some can't.
Without the kind relationships I built through many if not most if not
actually ALL the people I listed above, I would not have enjoyed owning my Pantera and having as much fun with it as I could. It truly is the owner-community that makes it all worth while (for me anyway), not just some web site, not just some email forum, not just a fun rally, or newsletters, or quarterly magazine. All those things contribute to the experience, but without the people..... I might as well own a Yugo.
I think at this point, most folks have formed an opinion of current POCA
leadership, good or bad. I think those who care have probably said their peace. To that end, I think we've exhausted the illustration of what's happening and I'd like to perhaps give a gentle reminder that in the words of Michael Shortt himself something like only 2% of actual POCA members frequent this list.
I can respect those who have wanted to air their grievances and I think
some have done so in far better fashion than others. I'd like to encourage us all to find our Pantera voices again and stimulate some good old fashion bench racing or problem solving. Oh.... and note that I do not share in any moderation duties of this list anymore. Kurt has a good handle on it and knows where to go if he ever needs help.
Get to it! Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired & Shelley Marie Spokane, WA ****************************** http://w7tsc.org http://www.teampanteraracing.com
On 6/6/2016 5:53 PM, msm@portata.com wrote:
Rod -- you are always welcome here. Thank you for your many years of contributions to POCA and the greater DeTomaso community.
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
I'd like to take a moment to give thanks you's to a whole lot of people, too numerous to name actually, who have contributed to the overall Pantera ownership experience. It all starts with real people, the kind who actually know things about the cars; and more importantly know the -right- things about the cars, and other people. Perhaps even more important in a forum
And Larry ............. you helped to make it interesting. Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be ! ) From: Larry - Ohio Time <Larry@ohiotimecorp.com> To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Sent: Tuesday, June 7, 2016 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Thank you's to a lot of people (Was: POCA businesson this forum) Ditto and Amen to all that was said! Larry - Cleveland -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Mark Charlton Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 11:53 AM To: Asa Jay Laughton Cc: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Thank you's to a lot of people (Was: POCA businesson this forum) Beautifully written Asa Jay. Your name belongs on that list too! Thank you, Kurt and everyone else (listed and not) who makes a positive contribution to DeTomaso ownership. Many of the owners I have met over the years have become life-long friends and have added immeasurably to my personal enrichment. Mark Charlton pantera01826@rogers.com On Jun 6, 2016, at 11:57 PM, Asa Jay Laughton <asajay@asajay.com> wrote: like this is the breadth of knowledge and the choices of potential fixes or solutions one can choose from, all most certainly from learned people.
I'd also like to a put a thank you out to George Pence of the PI forum.
Yes, I too really miss the awesome magazine coming to my inbox. I really started missing it after the really awesome last couple of issues. I miss a bit more interaction with PI too, but I will say say this, the PI forum is another awesome car forum on the Internet. No, I don't frequent it, but it's easy to see it gets attention, and from a large group of people who don't frequent this email list. The PI forum has filled that niche for several years and has a good amount of great information on the Pantera and other DeTomaso automobiles in addition to other banter. Yes, it's moderated and some folks have found themselves banned from the forum... well, that's his call, but my thanks are still in place for continuing to provide an alternative for Pantera owners.
The Pantera Vendors. A Big thank you to those business owners who have
stuck with the Pantera for decades. I recently heard that if you have a broken down 80's Countach, that there is only ONE guy in the entire US that can repair the on-board electronic computer to make it run again. Really? In the Pantera world we have several vendors who can get you just about anything and talk you through just about any repair over the phone. These people are fantastic. Could we spend more? Maybe, but sending them a little money now and then for good parts and service will help ensure they stay in business.
POCA, the one Pantera club that's outlasted them all. A yearly Fun Rally
where you'll see more Panteras than a dealer ever did. Reprinted publications that you can buy and refer to in your garage, a monthly newsletter and quarterly magazine to remind you once a month and once a quarter that you've got something special parked in your garage.
The one point I'd like to make here is that behind all of this are the
people who make it all happen. There are some names in the Pantera world that many will recognize, and not because they sought any sort of fame but because they have contributed time, energy, personal experience and a "passion" for building relationships centered around the Pantera:
Gary Hall Dennis Quella Steve Wilkinson Larry Stock Jack DeRyke (what doesn't he know?) Ted Mitchell (who knew everything before Jack did, I think) Judy McCartney (membership lady!) Rod Kunishige (database man!) Dan Jones (more than I could ever hope to know about 351C engines) Mike Drew (left Jay Leno speechless) Les Gray (past president of POCA multiple times) Kent and Sandi Snyder (I've affectionately referred to them as Mr and Mrs.
Bob Reid Bill Van Ess (first published Pantera registry) George Pence Marino Perna Tony Harvey (Drive-it) Mark McWhinney Curt Toumanian Dennis Antenucci
... and I'm sure a whole lot more. These are the kind of people who built relationships to expand the passion of Pantera ownership. These are the kind of people who want to continue in that regard as well.
Are there, and will there be differing opinions and personalities? Yes,
Fun Rally :) there always will be, but it's how we interact with others that measures our true integrity. How do we treat people in private as well as public?
I myself have had some heated words in the past that were made in haste,
and I've had to come back around and apologize for them. I think each "bad" interaction helps teach me more about the person I'm supposed to be, rather than the nasty person I know I could be. I think that is the measure of our integrity, do we learn from our mistakes, have we told the truth, can we stand behind what we've said? Can we muster the necessary humility when needed?
Some can, some can't.
Without the kind relationships I built through many if not most if not
actually ALL the people I listed above, I would not have enjoyed owning my Pantera and having as much fun with it as I could. It truly is the owner-community that makes it all worth while (for me anyway), not just some web site, not just some email forum, not just a fun rally, or newsletters, or quarterly magazine. All those things contribute to the experience, but without the people..... I might as well own a Yugo.
I think at this point, most folks have formed an opinion of current POCA
leadership, good or bad. I think those who care have probably said their peace. To that end, I think we've exhausted the illustration of what's happening and I'd like to perhaps give a gentle reminder that in the words of Michael Shortt himself something like only 2% of actual POCA members frequent this list.
I can respect those who have wanted to air their grievances and I think
some have done so in far better fashion than others. I'd like to encourage us all to find our Pantera voices again and stimulate some good old fashion bench racing or problem solving. Oh.... and note that I do not share in any moderation duties of this list anymore. Kurt has a good handle on it and knows where to go if he ever needs help.
Get to it! Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired & Shelley Marie Spokane, WA ****************************** http://w7tsc.org http://www.teampanteraracing.com
On 6/6/2016 5:53 PM, msm@portata.com wrote:
Rod -- you are always welcome here. Thank you for your many years of contributions to POCA and the greater DeTomaso community.
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
I'd like to take a moment to give thanks you's to a whole lot of
message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. And Larry ............. you helped to make it interesting. Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be ! ) __________________________________________________________________ From: Larry - Ohio Time <Larry@ohiotimecorp.com> To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Sent: Tuesday, June 7, 2016 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Thank you's to a lot of people (Was: POCA businesson this forum) Ditto and Amen to all that was said! Larry - Cleveland -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:[1]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Mark Charlton Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 11:53 AM To: Asa Jay Laughton Cc: [2]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Thank you's to a lot of people (Was: POCA businesson this forum) Beautifully written Asa Jay. Your name belongs on that list too! Thank you, Kurt and everyone else (listed and not) who makes a positive contribution to DeTomaso ownership. Many of the owners I have met over the years have become life-long friends and have added immeasurably to my personal enrichment. Mark Charlton [3]pantera01826@rogers.com On Jun 6, 2016, at 11:57 PM, Asa Jay Laughton <[4]asajay@asajay.com> wrote: people, too numerous to name actually, who have contributed to the overall Pantera ownership experience. It all starts with real people, the kind who actually know things about the cars; and more importantly know the -right- things about the cars, and other people. Perhaps even more important in a forum like this is the breadth of knowledge and the choices of potential fixes or solutions one can choose from, all most certainly from learned people.
I'd also like to a put a thank you out to George Pence of the PI
forum. Yes, I too really miss the awesome magazine coming to my inbox. I really started missing it after the really awesome last couple of issues. I miss a bit more interaction with PI too, but I will say say this, the PI forum is another awesome car forum on the Internet. No, I don't frequent it, but it's easy to see it gets attention, and from a large group of people who don't frequent this email list. The PI forum has filled that niche for several years and has a good amount of great information on the Pantera and other DeTomaso automobiles in addition to other banter. Yes, it's moderated and some folks have found themselves banned from the forum... well, that's his call, but my thanks are still in place for continuing to provide an alternative for Pantera owners.
The Pantera Vendors. A Big thank you to those business owners who
have stuck with the Pantera for decades. I recently heard that if you have a broken down 80's Countach, that there is only ONE guy in the entire US that can repair the on-board electronic computer to make it run again. Really? In the Pantera world we have several vendors who can get you just about anything and talk you through just about any repair over the phone. These people are fantastic. Could we spend more? Maybe, but sending them a little money now and then for good parts and service will help ensure they stay in business.
POCA, the one Pantera club that's outlasted them all. A yearly Fun
Rally where you'll see more Panteras than a dealer ever did. Reprinted publications that you can buy and refer to in your garage, a monthly newsletter and quarterly magazine to remind you once a month and once a quarter that you've got something special parked in your garage.
The one point I'd like to make here is that behind all of this are
the people who make it all happen. There are some names in the Pantera world that many will recognize, and not because they sought any sort of fame but because they have contributed time, energy, personal experience and a "passion" for building relationships centered around the Pantera:
Gary Hall Dennis Quella Steve Wilkinson Larry Stock Jack DeRyke (what doesn't he know?) Ted Mitchell (who knew everything before Jack did, I think) Judy McCartney (membership lady!) Rod Kunishige (database man!) Dan Jones (more than I could ever hope to know about 351C engines) Mike Drew (left Jay Leno speechless) Les Gray (past president of POCA multiple times) Kent and Sandi Snyder (I've affectionately referred to them as Mr and
Bob Reid Bill Van Ess (first published Pantera registry) George Pence Marino Perna Tony Harvey (Drive-it) Mark McWhinney Curt Toumanian Dennis Antenucci
... and I'm sure a whole lot more. These are the kind of people who built relationships to expand the passion of Pantera ownership. These are
Mrs. Fun Rally :) the kind of people who want to continue in that regard as well.
Are there, and will there be differing opinions and personalities?
Yes, there always will be, but it's how we interact with others that measures our true integrity. How do we treat people in private as well as public?
I myself have had some heated words in the past that were made in
haste, and I've had to come back around and apologize for them. I think each "bad" interaction helps teach me more about the person I'm supposed to be, rather than the nasty person I know I could be. I think that is the measure of our integrity, do we learn from our mistakes, have we told the truth, can we stand behind what we've said? Can we muster the necessary humility when needed?
Some can, some can't.
Without the kind relationships I built through many if not most if
not actually ALL the people I listed above, I would not have enjoyed owning my Pantera and having as much fun with it as I could. It truly is the owner-community that makes it all worth while (for me anyway), not just some web site, not just some email forum, not just a fun rally, or newsletters, or quarterly magazine. All those things contribute to the experience, but without the people..... I might as well own a Yugo.
I think at this point, most folks have formed an opinion of current
POCA leadership, good or bad. I think those who care have probably said their peace. To that end, I think we've exhausted the illustration of what's happening and I'd like to perhaps give a gentle reminder that in the words of Michael Shortt himself something like only 2% of actual POCA members frequent this list.
I can respect those who have wanted to air their grievances and I
think some have done so in far better fashion than others. I'd like to encourage us all to find our Pantera voices again and stimulate some good old fashion bench racing or problem solving. Oh.... and note that I do not share in any moderation duties of this list anymore. Kurt has a good handle on it and knows where to go if he ever needs help.
Get to it! Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired & Shelley Marie Spokane, WA ****************************** [5]http://w7tsc.org [6]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
On 6/6/2016 5:53 PM, [7]msm@portata.com wrote:
Rod -- you are always welcome here. Thank you for your many years
contributions to POCA and the greater DeTomaso community.
_______________________________________________
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Thank you from a newbie owner who has experienced many of the benefits you have outlined below. I hope to take what I learn and "Pay it Forward" to the future newbies that join the POCA. All sources of information are of value to the newcomer. The POCA website, PI Forum, the numerous vendors of Pantera parts, and this List have all been helpful to me. Thank you to all who have contributed !! --Ed -----Original Message----- From: Asa Jay Laughton [mailto:asajay@asajay.com] Sent: Monday, June 06, 2016 11:57 PM To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: [DeTomaso] Thank you's to a lot of people (Was: POCA business on this forum) I'd like to take a moment to give thanks you's to a whole lot of people, too numerous to name actually, who have contributed to the overall Pantera ownership experience. It all starts with real people, the kind who actually know things about the cars; and more importantly know the -right- things about the cars, and other people. Perhaps even more important in a forum like this is the breadth of knowledge and the choices of potential fixes or solutions one can choose from, all most certainly from learned people. I'd also like to a put a thank you out to George Pence of the PI forum. Yes, I too really miss the awesome magazine coming to my inbox. I really started missing it after the really awesome last couple of issues. I miss a bit more interaction with PI too, but I will say say this, the PI forum is another awesome car forum on the Internet. No, I don't frequent it, but it's easy to see it gets attention, and from a large group of people who don't frequent this email list. The PI forum has filled that niche for several years and has a good amount of great information on the Pantera and other DeTomaso automobiles in addition to other banter. Yes, it's moderated and some folks have found themselves banned from the forum... well, that's his call, but my thanks are still in place for continuing to provide an alternative for Pantera owners. The Pantera Vendors. A Big thank you to those business owners who have stuck with the Pantera for decades. I recently heard that if you have a broken down 80's Countach, that there is only ONE guy in the entire US that can repair the on-board electronic computer to make it run again. Really? In the Pantera world we have several vendors who can get you just about anything and talk you through just about any repair over the phone. These people are fantastic. Could we spend more? Maybe, but sending them a little money now and then for good parts and service will help ensure they stay in business. POCA, the one Pantera club that's outlasted them all. A yearly Fun Rally where you'll see more Panteras than a dealer ever did. Reprinted publications that you can buy and refer to in your garage, a monthly newsletter and quarterly magazine to remind you once a month and once a quarter that you've got something special parked in your garage. The one point I'd like to make here is that behind all of this are the people who make it all happen. There are some names in the Pantera world that many will recognize, and not because they sought any sort of fame but because they have contributed time, energy, personal experience and a "passion" for building relationships centered around the Pantera: Gary Hall Dennis Quella Steve Wilkinson Larry Stock Jack DeRyke (what doesn't he know?) Ted Mitchell (who knew everything before Jack did, I think) Judy McCartney (membership lady!) Rod Kunishige (database man!) Dan Jones (more than I could ever hope to know about 351C engines) Mike Drew (left Jay Leno speechless) Les Gray (past president of POCA multiple times) Kent and Sandi Snyder (I've affectionately referred to them as Mr and Mrs. Fun Rally :) Bob Reid Bill Van Ess (first published Pantera registry) George Pence Marino Perna Tony Harvey (Drive-it) Mark McWhinney Curt Toumanian Dennis Antenucci ... and I'm sure a whole lot more. These are the kind of people who built relationships to expand the passion of Pantera ownership. These are the kind of people who want to continue in that regard as well. Are there, and will there be differing opinions and personalities? Yes, there always will be, but it's how we interact with others that measures our true integrity. How do we treat people in private as well as public? I myself have had some heated words in the past that were made in haste, and I've had to come back around and apologize for them. I think each "bad" interaction helps teach me more about the person I'm supposed to be, rather than the nasty person I know I could be. I think that is the measure of our integrity, do we learn from our mistakes, have we told the truth, can we stand behind what we've said? Can we muster the necessary humility when needed? Some can, some can't. Without the kind relationships I built through many if not most if not actually ALL the people I listed above, I would not have enjoyed owning my Pantera and having as much fun with it as I could. It truly is the owner-community that makes it all worth while (for me anyway), not just some web site, not just some email forum, not just a fun rally, or newsletters, or quarterly magazine. All those things contribute to the experience, but without the people..... I might as well own a Yugo. I think at this point, most folks have formed an opinion of current POCA leadership, good or bad. I think those who care have probably said their peace. To that end, I think we've exhausted the illustration of what's happening and I'd like to perhaps give a gentle reminder that in the words of Michael Shortt himself something like only 2% of actual POCA members frequent this list. I can respect those who have wanted to air their grievances and I think some have done so in far better fashion than others. I'd like to encourage us all to find our Pantera voices again and stimulate some good old fashion bench racing or problem solving. Oh.... and note that I do not share in any moderation duties of this list anymore. Kurt has a good handle on it and knows where to go if he ever needs help. Get to it! Asa Jay Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired & Shelley Marie Spokane, WA ****************************** http://w7tsc.org http://www.teampanteraracing.com On 6/6/2016 5:53 PM, msm@portata.com wrote:
Rod -- you are always welcome here. Thank you for your many years of contributions to POCA and the greater DeTomaso community.
I would also like to express a huge Thank You to SOBill Taylor and Chuck Engles. IndyDave -----Original Message----- From: Asa Jay Laughton [mailto:asajay@asajay.com] Sent: Monday, June 06, 2016 11:57 PM To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: [DeTomaso] Thank you's to a lot of people (Was: POCA business on this forum) I'd like to take a moment to give thanks you's to a whole lot of people, too numerous to name actually, who have contributed to the overall Pantera ownership experience. It all starts with real people, the kind who actually know things about the cars; and more importantly know the -right- things about the cars, and other people. Perhaps even more important in a forum like this is the breadth of knowledge and the choices of potential fixes or solutions one can choose from, all most certainly from learned people. I'd also like to a put a thank you out to George Pence of the PI forum. Yes, I too really miss the awesome magazine coming to my inbox. I really started missing it after the really awesome last couple of issues. I miss a bit more interaction with PI too, but I will say say this, the PI forum is another awesome car forum on the Internet. No, I don't frequent it, but it's easy to see it gets attention, and from a large group of people who don't frequent this email list. The PI forum has filled that niche for several years and has a good amount of great information on the Pantera and other DeTomaso automobiles in addition to other banter. Yes, it's moderated and some folks have found themselves banned from the forum... well, that's his call, but my thanks are still in place for continuing to provide an alternative for Pantera owners. The Pantera Vendors. A Big thank you to those business owners who have stuck with the Pantera for decades. I recently heard that if you have a broken down 80's Countach, that there is only ONE guy in the entire US that can repair the on-board electronic computer to make it run again. Really? In the Pantera world we have several vendors who can get you just about anything and talk you through just about any repair over the phone. These people are fantastic. Could we spend more? Maybe, but sending them a little money now and then for good parts and service will help ensure they stay in business. POCA, the one Pantera club that's outlasted them all. A yearly Fun Rally where you'll see more Panteras than a dealer ever did. Reprinted publications that you can buy and refer to in your garage, a monthly newsletter and quarterly magazine to remind you once a month and once a quarter that you've got something special parked in your garage. The one point I'd like to make here is that behind all of this are the people who make it all happen. There are some names in the Pantera world that many will recognize, and not because they sought any sort of fame but because they have contributed time, energy, personal experience and a "passion" for building relationships centered around the Pantera: Gary Hall Dennis Quella Steve Wilkinson Larry Stock Jack DeRyke (what doesn't he know?) Ted Mitchell (who knew everything before Jack did, I think) Judy McCartney (membership lady!) Rod Kunishige (database man!) Dan Jones (more than I could ever hope to know about 351C engines) Mike Drew (left Jay Leno speechless) Les Gray (past president of POCA multiple times) Kent and Sandi Snyder (I've affectionately referred to them as Mr and Mrs. Fun Rally :) Bob Reid Bill Van Ess (first published Pantera registry) George Pence Marino Perna Tony Harvey (Drive-it) Mark McWhinney Curt Toumanian Dennis Antenucci ... and I'm sure a whole lot more. These are the kind of people who built relationships to expand the passion of Pantera ownership. These are the kind of people who want to continue in that regard as well. Are there, and will there be differing opinions and personalities? Yes, there always will be, but it's how we interact with others that measures our true integrity. How do we treat people in private as well as public? I myself have had some heated words in the past that were made in haste, and I've had to come back around and apologize for them. I think each "bad" interaction helps teach me more about the person I'm supposed to be, rather than the nasty person I know I could be. I think that is the measure of our integrity, do we learn from our mistakes, have we told the truth, can we stand behind what we've said? Can we muster the necessary humility when needed? Some can, some can't. Without the kind relationships I built through many if not most if not actually ALL the people I listed above, I would not have enjoyed owning my Pantera and having as much fun with it as I could. It truly is the owner-community that makes it all worth while (for me anyway), not just some web site, not just some email forum, not just a fun rally, or newsletters, or quarterly magazine. All those things contribute to the experience, but without the people..... I might as well own a Yugo. I think at this point, most folks have formed an opinion of current POCA leadership, good or bad. I think those who care have probably said their peace. To that end, I think we've exhausted the illustration of what's happening and I'd like to perhaps give a gentle reminder that in the words of Michael Shortt himself something like only 2% of actual POCA members frequent this list. I can respect those who have wanted to air their grievances and I think some have done so in far better fashion than others. I'd like to encourage us all to find our Pantera voices again and stimulate some good old fashion bench racing or problem solving. Oh.... and note that I do not share in any moderation duties of this list anymore. Kurt has a good handle on it and knows where to go if he ever needs help. Get to it! Asa Jay Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired & Shelley Marie Spokane, WA ****************************** http://w7tsc.org http://www.teampanteraracing.com On 6/6/2016 5:53 PM, msm@portata.com wrote:
Rod -- you are always welcome here. Thank you for your many years of contributions to POCA and the greater DeTomaso community.
Can someone enlighten me, please? I am/was under the impression this email list or forum was rescued from being dissolved by Kurt. (thank you Kurt) I was also under the impression this site was not part of or controlled by POCA.. Is this true? Thanks IndyDave -----Original Message----- From: msm@portata.com [mailto:msm@portata.com] Sent: Monday, June 06, 2016 8:53 PM To: scottcouchman@yahoo.com; Rod Kunishige Cc: <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Rod -- you are always welcome here. Thank you for your many years of contributions to POCA and the greater DeTomaso community. ------ Original Message ------ From: "Scott Couchman via DeTomaso" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To: "Rod Kunishige" <rkunishige@hotmail.com> Cc: "<detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: 6/6/2016 5:30:27 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum
"You seem to be someone bound and determined to stir up trouble, up until now, I have tried to remain quiet, in your last diatribe, I think it was "until Michael Shortt stops messing with me" or something to that effect, you would stop having these fits of verbal and textual diarrhea.
Frankly, I haven't given you another thought, you simply are not part of any equation on my worksheet.
You simply are a waste of my time which could be better used for something to benefit the membership instead of dealing with what seems to be a clinically depressed, anti social personality type addicted to drama.
That's changed, at the next BOD meeting I will be seeking to censure you as a member for violating our policies, for sharing BOD working emails and for not working within channels. I believe in an earlier email, Ed made the process very clear, go through your Chapter President or contact one of us directly, instead of posting your failures and inability to comprehend structure and civility.
If you make another very poor decision to continue these actions, I will seek a second censure in 30 days and ask to remove you from this club.
I am not the only one tried of your behavior, there are enough votes now in place to secure both outcomes.
This is the last time that I will ask you to become a team player and use your energies to help make POCA a better club instead of trying to destroy it from within.
Michael Shortt President POCA"
Wow! Really? I thought this was a car club?
On Jun 6, 2016, at 8:42 AM, Rod Kunishige <rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote:
Am I to be removed from the POCA? Rod
From: michaelsavga@gmail.com Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 09:34:45 -0400 Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum To: rkunishige@hotmail.com CC: jpoca2@hotmail.com; JDeRyke@aol.com; MBGlobalSc@aol.com; jb841@cox.net; RREIDCPA@aol.com; paso750@gmail.com; qrtlow@gmail.com; edducati@mac.com
Mr. Kunishige,
It appears the theme of a nicer, more friendly, and organized POCA which operates through channels escapes you.
It also appears a sitting BOD member is sharing BOD ONLY emails with you, that member should know that when I find them out, I will put forth a motion to censure them for violating BOD policy.
Since you are not an elected member of the BOD, you are not entitled to our work emails, discussions or methodologies used to arrive at how we do business, once formatted, discussed amongst ourselves, these same issues are put forth in an agenda, discussed during an Open BOD meeting where all members can hear how we take care of business. I think with the exception of the last 3 minutes of the last BOD meeting, it was an excellent example of how civil discourse can happen even between people with disparate points of view.
It is called a process, nothing happens by itself, I think the last 10 years of POCA pretty much proves that point.
In regard to your past, an inability to maintain a job or to operate a business successfully relates to our situation how? While owning a toy store would be a dream for somebody like me, everybody knows that 4 out of 5 new businesses fail in the first year and of those, 4 out of 5 will never see a fifth year, so your chance of still operating a toy store for five years was only 10% at best. Here is why most new businesses fail.
1 Incompetence 46 % Emotional Pricing
Living too high for the business
Nonpayment of taxes
No knowledge of pricing
Lack of planning
No knowledge of financing
No experience in record-keeping 2 Unbalanced Experience or Lack of Managerial Experience 30 % Poor credit granting practices
Expansion too rapid
Inadequate borrowing practices 3 Lack of Experiences in line of goods or services 11 % Carry inadequate inventory
No knowledge of suppliers
Wasted advertising budget 5 Neglect, fraud, disaster 1 %
Nobody judges you, we have all had failures, if you don't try, that's the biggest failure of all.
You seem to be someone bound and determined to stir up trouble, up until now, I have tried to remain quiet, in your last diatribe, I think it was "until Michael Shortt stops messing with me" or something to that effect, you would stop having these fits of verbal and textual diarrhea.
Frankly, I haven't given you another thought, you simply are not part of any equation on my worksheet.
You simply are a waste of my time which could be better used for something to benefit the membership instead of dealing with what seems to be a clinically depressed, anti social personality type addicted to drama.
That's changed, at the next BOD meeting I will be seeking to censure you as a member for violating our policies, for sharing BOD working emails and for not working within channels. I believe in an earlier email, Ed made the process very clear, go through your Chapter President or contact one of us directly, instead of posting your failures and inability to comprehend structure and civility.
If you make another very poor decision to continue these actions, I will seek a second censure in 30 days and ask to remove you from this club.
I am not the only one tried of your behavior, there are enough votes now in place to secure both outcomes.
This is the last time that I will ask you to become a team player and use your energies to help make POCA a better club instead of trying to destroy it from within.
Michael Shortt President POCA
This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you
On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 6:22 AM, Ed Mendez <edducati@mac.com> wrote: What part of “the email list should not be used to discuss POCA business”, "bring your grievances to your chapter president”, and “take it offline” did you not understand?
By you copying members and non members of POCA on this email list with your grievances, and personal issues with Michael Shortt; you are placing the whole club in a negative light. This is adversely effecting the clubs ability to recruit new members.
Copying the BOD.
Kind regards,
Ed
On 6/06/2016, at 10:11, Rod Kunishige <rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ed Menedez,
You say that facts are clearly important to you.
So, let me quote you some snippets taken directly from MS May 16, 2016 email Subject: Newsletter and Profiles printing/design henceforth:
O/ Meanwhile, as a part of this change will also come full
color > printing on all pages in both the Newsletter / Profiles, a new printer, > and mailing partner. > > O/ The existing printer will not print anything else for POCA > after the June newsletter. > > O/ Your new printing partner is PrintingCenterUSA, > > O/ effective immediately we will begin to adopt layout > designs/templa tes which will dedicate 20% of the total space to > advertising content display. > the Newsletter needs to be 32 total pages each month, 5 pages in total > space needs to be evenly distributed in 1/8 page, 1/4, 1/3. & 1/2 page > horitzontal ads and 1/2 page vertical ads plus a full page ad. > > O/ You will need to coordinate with Ed with proofs so that he will > have the final say on ad placement before adthing is printed. > > O/ The vendor listings are to be removed. They will have to buy > ads to reach our memb ers. > > O/ We also need to use ONLY the newly revised/cleaned up POCA Road > Script and POCA crest. > > Completely detailed specifications are also set as fixed space > allocations for both pubs without consideration for content > adjustments. > > My view is that these are clearly directives not suggestions to > consider to fellow POCA Board Members. > > Ed, should you wish to challenge these facts, Ill be most pleased to > publish the email in its entirety so everyone may view it within its > full context. > NOTE: There seems to be a need to know the qualifications of the > writers who post here. So, let me explain that my career of 35 years > was in Information Technology ending as VP of IT. I also owned and > operated a mailing house directing publications in the SF Bay Area for > 4 years and owned and operated a 9,000 sq ft independent Toy Store for > 5 years. Hope this helps the readers who wish to know my background. I > LOVE this club and vendors. Its members have helped me throughout the > decades. > Rod > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
--
Michael L. Shortt Savannah, Georgia www.michaelshortt.com michael@michaelshortt.com 912-232-9390
This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you
True on both counts. -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Dave Sent: martes, 7 de junio de 2016 19:17 To: msm@portata.com; scottcouchman@yahoo.com; Rod Kunishige Cc: <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Can someone enlighten me, please? I am/was under the impression this email list or forum was rescued from being dissolved by Kurt. (thank you Kurt) I was also under the impression this site was not part of or controlled by POCA.. Is this true? Thanks IndyDave -----Original Message----- From: msm@portata.com [mailto:msm@portata.com] Sent: Monday, June 06, 2016 8:53 PM To: scottcouchman@yahoo.com; Rod Kunishige Cc: <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Rod -- you are always welcome here. Thank you for your many years of contributions to POCA and the greater DeTomaso community. ------ Original Message ------ From: "Scott Couchman via DeTomaso" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To: "Rod Kunishige" <rkunishige@hotmail.com> Cc: "<detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: 6/6/2016 5:30:27 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum
"You seem to be someone bound and determined to stir up trouble, up until now, I have tried to remain quiet, in your last diatribe, I think it was "until Michael Shortt stops messing with me" or something to that effect, you would stop having these fits of verbal and textual diarrhea.
Frankly, I haven't given you another thought, you simply are not part of any equation on my worksheet.
You simply are a waste of my time which could be better used for something to benefit the membership instead of dealing with what seems to be a clinically depressed, anti social personality type addicted to drama.
That's changed, at the next BOD meeting I will be seeking to censure you as a member for violating our policies, for sharing BOD working emails and for not working within channels. I believe in an earlier email, Ed made the process very clear, go through your Chapter President or contact one of us directly, instead of posting your failures and inability to comprehend structure and civility.
If you make another very poor decision to continue these actions, I will seek a second censure in 30 days and ask to remove you from this club.
I am not the only one tried of your behavior, there are enough votes now in place to secure both outcomes.
This is the last time that I will ask you to become a team player and use your energies to help make POCA a better club instead of trying to destroy it from within.
Michael Shortt President POCA"
Wow! Really? I thought this was a car club?
On Jun 6, 2016, at 8:42 AM, Rod Kunishige <rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote:
Am I to be removed from the POCA? Rod
From: michaelsavga@gmail.com Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 09:34:45 -0400 Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum To: rkunishige@hotmail.com CC: jpoca2@hotmail.com; JDeRyke@aol.com; MBGlobalSc@aol.com; jb841@cox.net; RREIDCPA@aol.com; paso750@gmail.com; qrtlow@gmail.com; edducati@mac.com
Mr. Kunishige,
It appears the theme of a nicer, more friendly, and organized POCA which operates through channels escapes you.
It also appears a sitting BOD member is sharing BOD ONLY emails with you, that member should know that when I find them out, I will put forth a motion to censure them for violating BOD policy.
Since you are not an elected member of the BOD, you are not entitled to our work emails, discussions or methodologies used to arrive at how we do business, once formatted, discussed amongst ourselves, these same issues are put forth in an agenda, discussed during an Open BOD meeting where all members can hear how we take care of business. I think with the exception of the last 3 minutes of the last BOD meeting, it was an excellent example of how civil discourse can happen even between people with disparate points of view.
It is called a process, nothing happens by itself, I think the last 10 years of POCA pretty much proves that point.
In regard to your past, an inability to maintain a job or to operate a business successfully relates to our situation how? While owning a toy store would be a dream for somebody like me, everybody knows that 4 out of 5 new businesses fail in the first year and of those, 4 out of 5 will never see a fifth year, so your chance of still operating a toy store for five years was only 10% at best. Here is why most new businesses fail.
1 Incompetence 46 % Emotional Pricing
Living too high for the business
Nonpayment of taxes
No knowledge of pricing
Lack of planning
No knowledge of financing
No experience in record-keeping 2 Unbalanced Experience or Lack of Managerial Experience 30 % Poor credit granting practices
Expansion too rapid
Inadequate borrowing practices 3 Lack of Experiences in line of goods or services 11 % Carry inadequate inventory
No knowledge of suppliers
Wasted advertising budget 5 Neglect, fraud, disaster 1 %
Nobody judges you, we have all had failures, if you don't try, that's the biggest failure of all.
You seem to be someone bound and determined to stir up trouble, up until now, I have tried to remain quiet, in your last diatribe, I think it was "until Michael Shortt stops messing with me" or something to that effect, you would stop having these fits of verbal and textual diarrhea.
Frankly, I haven't given you another thought, you simply are not part of any equation on my worksheet.
You simply are a waste of my time which could be better used for something to benefit the membership instead of dealing with what seems to be a clinically depressed, anti social personality type addicted to drama.
That's changed, at the next BOD meeting I will be seeking to censure you as a member for violating our policies, for sharing BOD working emails and for not working within channels. I believe in an earlier email, Ed made the process very clear, go through your Chapter President or contact one of us directly, instead of posting your failures and inability to comprehend structure and civility.
If you make another very poor decision to continue these actions, I will seek a second censure in 30 days and ask to remove you from this club.
I am not the only one tried of your behavior, there are enough votes now in place to secure both outcomes.
This is the last time that I will ask you to become a team player and use your energies to help make POCA a better club instead of trying to destroy it from within.
Michael Shortt President POCA
This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you
On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 6:22 AM, Ed Mendez <edducati@mac.com> wrote: What part of “the email list should not be used to discuss POCA business”, "bring your grievances to your chapter president”, and “take it offline” did you not understand?
By you copying members and non members of POCA on this email list with your grievances, and personal issues with Michael Shortt; you are placing the whole club in a negative light. This is adversely effecting the clubs ability to recruit new members.
Copying the BOD.
Kind regards,
Ed
On 6/06/2016, at 10:11, Rod Kunishige <rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ed Menedez,
You say that facts are clearly important to you.
So, let me quote you some snippets taken directly from MS May 16, 2016 email Subject: Newsletter and Profiles printing/design henceforth:
O/ Meanwhile, as a part of this change will also come full
color > printing on all pages in both the Newsletter / Profiles, a new printer, > and mailing partner. > > O/ The existing printer will not print anything else for POCA > after the June newsletter. > > O/ Your new printing partner is PrintingCenterUSA, > > O/ effective immediately we will begin to adopt layout > designs/templa tes which will dedicate 20% of the total space to > advertising content display. > the Newsletter needs to be 32 total pages each month, 5 pages in total > space needs to be evenly distributed in 1/8 page, 1/4, 1/3. & 1/2 page > horitzontal ads and 1/2 page vertical ads plus a full page ad. > > O/ You will need to coordinate with Ed with proofs so that he will > have the final say on ad placement before adthing is printed. > > O/ The vendor listings are to be removed. They will have to buy > ads to reach our memb ers. > > O/ We also need to use ONLY the newly revised/cleaned up POCA Road > Script and POCA crest. > > Completely detailed specifications are also set as fixed space > allocations for both pubs without consideration for content > adjustments. > > My view is that these are clearly directives not suggestions to > consider to fellow POCA Board Members. > > Ed, should you wish to challenge these facts, Ill be most pleased to > publish the email in its entirety so everyone may view it within its > full context. > NOTE: There seems to be a need to know the qualifications of the > writers who post here. So, let me explain that my career of 35 years > was in Information Technology ending as VP of IT. I also owned and > operated a mailing house directing publications in the SF Bay Area for > 4 years and owned and operated a 9,000 sq ft independent Toy Store for > 5 years. Hope this helps the readers who wish to know my background. I > LOVE this club and vendors. Its members have helped me throughout the > decades. > Rod > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
--
Michael L. Shortt Savannah, Georgia www.michaelshortt.com michael@michaelshortt.com 912-232-9390
This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you
Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
Thank you! -----Original Message----- From: Charles McCall [mailto:charlesmccall@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 1:42 PM To: Dave; msm@portata.com; scottcouchman@yahoo.com; 'Rod Kunishige' Cc: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum True on both counts. -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Dave Sent: martes, 7 de junio de 2016 19:17 To: msm@portata.com; scottcouchman@yahoo.com; Rod Kunishige Cc: <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Can someone enlighten me, please? I am/was under the impression this email list or forum was rescued from being dissolved by Kurt. (thank you Kurt) I was also under the impression this site was not part of or controlled by POCA.. Is this true? Thanks IndyDave -----Original Message----- From: msm@portata.com [mailto:msm@portata.com] Sent: Monday, June 06, 2016 8:53 PM To: scottcouchman@yahoo.com; Rod Kunishige Cc: <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Rod -- you are always welcome here. Thank you for your many years of contributions to POCA and the greater DeTomaso community. ------ Original Message ------ From: "Scott Couchman via DeTomaso" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To: "Rod Kunishige" <rkunishige@hotmail.com> Cc: "<detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: 6/6/2016 5:30:27 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum
"You seem to be someone bound and determined to stir up trouble, up until now, I have tried to remain quiet, in your last diatribe, I think it was "until Michael Shortt stops messing with me" or something to that effect, you would stop having these fits of verbal and textual diarrhea.
Frankly, I haven't given you another thought, you simply are not part of any equation on my worksheet.
You simply are a waste of my time which could be better used for something to benefit the membership instead of dealing with what seems to be a clinically depressed, anti social personality type addicted to drama.
That's changed, at the next BOD meeting I will be seeking to censure you as a member for violating our policies, for sharing BOD working emails and for not working within channels. I believe in an earlier email, Ed made the process very clear, go through your Chapter President or contact one of us directly, instead of posting your failures and inability to comprehend structure and civility.
If you make another very poor decision to continue these actions, I will seek a second censure in 30 days and ask to remove you from this club.
I am not the only one tried of your behavior, there are enough votes now in place to secure both outcomes.
This is the last time that I will ask you to become a team player and use your energies to help make POCA a better club instead of trying to destroy it from within.
Michael Shortt President POCA"
Wow! Really? I thought this was a car club?
On Jun 6, 2016, at 8:42 AM, Rod Kunishige <rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote:
Am I to be removed from the POCA? Rod
From: michaelsavga@gmail.com Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 09:34:45 -0400 Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum To: rkunishige@hotmail.com CC: jpoca2@hotmail.com; JDeRyke@aol.com; MBGlobalSc@aol.com; jb841@cox.net; RREIDCPA@aol.com; paso750@gmail.com; qrtlow@gmail.com; edducati@mac.com
Mr. Kunishige,
It appears the theme of a nicer, more friendly, and organized POCA which operates through channels escapes you.
It also appears a sitting BOD member is sharing BOD ONLY emails with you, that member should know that when I find them out, I will put forth a motion to censure them for violating BOD policy.
Since you are not an elected member of the BOD, you are not entitled to our work emails, discussions or methodologies used to arrive at how we do business, once formatted, discussed amongst ourselves, these same issues are put forth in an agenda, discussed during an Open BOD meeting where all members can hear how we take care of business. I think with the exception of the last 3 minutes of the last BOD meeting, it was an excellent example of how civil discourse can happen even between people with disparate points of view.
It is called a process, nothing happens by itself, I think the last 10 years of POCA pretty much proves that point.
In regard to your past, an inability to maintain a job or to operate a business successfully relates to our situation how? While owning a toy store would be a dream for somebody like me, everybody knows that 4 out of 5 new businesses fail in the first year and of those, 4 out of 5 will never see a fifth year, so your chance of still operating a toy store for five years was only 10% at best. Here is why most new businesses fail.
1 Incompetence 46 % Emotional Pricing
Living too high for the business
Nonpayment of taxes
No knowledge of pricing
Lack of planning
No knowledge of financing
No experience in record-keeping 2 Unbalanced Experience or Lack of Managerial Experience 30 % Poor credit granting practices
Expansion too rapid
Inadequate borrowing practices 3 Lack of Experiences in line of goods or services 11 % Carry inadequate inventory
No knowledge of suppliers
Wasted advertising budget 5 Neglect, fraud, disaster 1 %
Nobody judges you, we have all had failures, if you don't try, that's the biggest failure of all.
You seem to be someone bound and determined to stir up trouble, up until now, I have tried to remain quiet, in your last diatribe, I think it was "until Michael Shortt stops messing with me" or something to that effect, you would stop having these fits of verbal and textual diarrhea.
Frankly, I haven't given you another thought, you simply are not part of any equation on my worksheet.
You simply are a waste of my time which could be better used for something to benefit the membership instead of dealing with what seems to be a clinically depressed, anti social personality type addicted to drama.
That's changed, at the next BOD meeting I will be seeking to censure you as a member for violating our policies, for sharing BOD working emails and for not working within channels. I believe in an earlier email, Ed made the process very clear, go through your Chapter President or contact one of us directly, instead of posting your failures and inability to comprehend structure and civility.
If you make another very poor decision to continue these actions, I will seek a second censure in 30 days and ask to remove you from this club.
I am not the only one tried of your behavior, there are enough votes now in place to secure both outcomes.
This is the last time that I will ask you to become a team player and use your energies to help make POCA a better club instead of trying to destroy it from within.
Michael Shortt President POCA
This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you
On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 6:22 AM, Ed Mendez <edducati@mac.com> wrote: What part of “the email list should not be used to discuss POCA business”, "bring your grievances to your chapter president”, and “take it offline” did you not understand?
By you copying members and non members of POCA on this email list with your grievances, and personal issues with Michael Shortt; you are placing the whole club in a negative light. This is adversely effecting the clubs ability to recruit new members.
Copying the BOD.
Kind regards,
Ed
On 6/06/2016, at 10:11, Rod Kunishige <rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ed Menedez,
You say that facts are clearly important to you.
So, let me quote you some snippets taken directly from MS May 16, 2016 email Subject: Newsletter and Profiles printing/design henceforth:
O/ Meanwhile, as a part of this change will also come full
color > printing on all pages in both the Newsletter / Profiles, a new printer, > and mailing partner. > > O/ The existing printer will not print anything else for POCA > after the June newsletter. > > O/ Your new printing partner is PrintingCenterUSA, > > O/ effective immediately we will begin to adopt layout > designs/templa tes which will dedicate 20% of the total space to > advertising content display. > the Newsletter needs to be 32 total pages each month, 5 pages in total > space needs to be evenly distributed in 1/8 page, 1/4, 1/3. & 1/2 page > horitzontal ads and 1/2 page vertical ads plus a full page ad. > > O/ You will need to coordinate with Ed with proofs so that he will > have the final say on ad placement before adthing is printed. > > O/ The vendor listings are to be removed. They will have to buy > ads to reach our memb ers. > > O/ We also need to use ONLY the newly revised/cleaned up POCA Road > Script and POCA crest. > > Completely detailed specifications are also set as fixed space > allocations for both pubs without consideration for content > adjustments. > > My view is that these are clearly directives not suggestions to > consider to fellow POCA Board Members. > > Ed, should you wish to challenge these facts, Ill be most pleased to > publish the email in its entirety so everyone may view it within its > full context. > NOTE: There seems to be a need to know the qualifications of the > writers who post here. So, let me explain that my career of 35 years > was in Information Technology ending as VP of IT. I also owned and > operated a mailing house directing publications in the SF Bay Area for > 4 years and owned and operated a 9,000 sq ft independent Toy Store for > 5 years. Hope this helps the readers who wish to know my background. I > LOVE this club and vendors. Its members have helped me throughout the > decades. > Rod > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
--
Michael L. Shortt Savannah, Georgia www.michaelshortt.com michael@michaelshortt.com 912-232-9390
This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you
Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
So Short's threats of censorship have no relevance to this group, correct? -----Original Message----- From: Dave Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 1:50 PM To: 'Charles McCall'; msm@portata.com; scottcouchman@yahoo.com; 'Rod Kunishige' Cc: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Thank you! -----Original Message----- From: Charles McCall [mailto:charlesmccall@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 1:42 PM To: Dave; msm@portata.com; scottcouchman@yahoo.com; 'Rod Kunishige' Cc: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum True on both counts. -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Dave Sent: martes, 7 de junio de 2016 19:17 To: msm@portata.com; scottcouchman@yahoo.com; Rod Kunishige Cc: <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Can someone enlighten me, please? I am/was under the impression this email list or forum was rescued from being dissolved by Kurt. (thank you Kurt) I was also under the impression this site was not part of or controlled by POCA.. Is this true? Thanks IndyDave -----Original Message----- From: msm@portata.com [mailto:msm@portata.com] Sent: Monday, June 06, 2016 8:53 PM To: scottcouchman@yahoo.com; Rod Kunishige Cc: <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Rod -- you are always welcome here. Thank you for your many years of contributions to POCA and the greater DeTomaso community. ------ Original Message ------ From: "Scott Couchman via DeTomaso" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To: "Rod Kunishige" <rkunishige@hotmail.com> Cc: "<detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: 6/6/2016 5:30:27 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum
"You seem to be someone bound and determined to stir up trouble, up until now, I have tried to remain quiet, in your last diatribe, I think it was "until Michael Shortt stops messing with me" or something to that effect, you would stop having these fits of verbal and textual diarrhea.
Frankly, I haven't given you another thought, you simply are not part of any equation on my worksheet.
You simply are a waste of my time which could be better used for something to benefit the membership instead of dealing with what seems to be a clinically depressed, anti social personality type addicted to drama.
That's changed, at the next BOD meeting I will be seeking to censure you as a member for violating our policies, for sharing BOD working emails and for not working within channels. I believe in an earlier email, Ed made the process very clear, go through your Chapter President or contact one of us directly, instead of posting your failures and inability to comprehend structure and civility.
If you make another very poor decision to continue these actions, I will seek a second censure in 30 days and ask to remove you from this club.
I am not the only one tried of your behavior, there are enough votes now in place to secure both outcomes.
This is the last time that I will ask you to become a team player and use your energies to help make POCA a better club instead of trying to destroy it from within.
Michael Shortt President POCA"
Wow! Really? I thought this was a car club?
On Jun 6, 2016, at 8:42 AM, Rod Kunishige <rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote:
Am I to be removed from the POCA? Rod
From: michaelsavga@gmail.com Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 09:34:45 -0400 Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum To: rkunishige@hotmail.com CC: jpoca2@hotmail.com; JDeRyke@aol.com; MBGlobalSc@aol.com; jb841@cox.net; RREIDCPA@aol.com; paso750@gmail.com; qrtlow@gmail.com; edducati@mac.com
Mr. Kunishige,
It appears the theme of a nicer, more friendly, and organized POCA which operates through channels escapes you.
It also appears a sitting BOD member is sharing BOD ONLY emails with you, that member should know that when I find them out, I will put forth a motion to censure them for violating BOD policy.
Since you are not an elected member of the BOD, you are not entitled to our work emails, discussions or methodologies used to arrive at how we do business, once formatted, discussed amongst ourselves, these same issues are put forth in an agenda, discussed during an Open BOD meeting where all members can hear how we take care of business. I think with the exception of the last 3 minutes of the last BOD meeting, it was an excellent example of how civil discourse can happen even between people with disparate points of view.
It is called a process, nothing happens by itself, I think the last 10 years of POCA pretty much proves that point.
In regard to your past, an inability to maintain a job or to operate a business successfully relates to our situation how? While owning a toy store would be a dream for somebody like me, everybody knows that 4 out of 5 new businesses fail in the first year and of those, 4 out of 5 will never see a fifth year, so your chance of still operating a toy store for five years was only 10% at best. Here is why most new businesses fail.
1 Incompetence 46 % Emotional Pricing
Living too high for the business
Nonpayment of taxes
No knowledge of pricing
Lack of planning
No knowledge of financing
No experience in record-keeping 2 Unbalanced Experience or Lack of Managerial Experience 30 % Poor credit granting practices
Expansion too rapid
Inadequate borrowing practices 3 Lack of Experiences in line of goods or services 11 % Carry inadequate inventory
No knowledge of suppliers
Wasted advertising budget 5 Neglect, fraud, disaster 1 %
Nobody judges you, we have all had failures, if you don't try, that's the biggest failure of all.
You seem to be someone bound and determined to stir up trouble, up until now, I have tried to remain quiet, in your last diatribe, I think it was "until Michael Shortt stops messing with me" or something to that effect, you would stop having these fits of verbal and textual diarrhea.
Frankly, I haven't given you another thought, you simply are not part of any equation on my worksheet.
You simply are a waste of my time which could be better used for something to benefit the membership instead of dealing with what seems to be a clinically depressed, anti social personality type addicted to drama.
That's changed, at the next BOD meeting I will be seeking to censure you as a member for violating our policies, for sharing BOD working emails and for not working within channels. I believe in an earlier email, Ed made the process very clear, go through your Chapter President or contact one of us directly, instead of posting your failures and inability to comprehend structure and civility.
If you make another very poor decision to continue these actions, I will seek a second censure in 30 days and ask to remove you from this club.
I am not the only one tried of your behavior, there are enough votes now in place to secure both outcomes.
This is the last time that I will ask you to become a team player and use your energies to help make POCA a better club instead of trying to destroy it from within.
Michael Shortt President POCA
This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you
On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 6:22 AM, Ed Mendez <edducati@mac.com> wrote: What part of “the email list should not be used to discuss POCA business”, "bring your grievances to your chapter president”, and “take it offline” did you not understand?
By you copying members and non members of POCA on this email list with your grievances, and personal issues with Michael Shortt; you are placing the whole club in a negative light. This is adversely effecting the clubs ability to recruit new members.
Copying the BOD.
Kind regards,
Ed
On 6/06/2016, at 10:11, Rod Kunishige <rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ed Menedez,
You say that facts are clearly important to you.
So, let me quote you some snippets taken directly from MS May 16, 2016 email Subject: Newsletter and Profiles printing/design henceforth:
O/ Meanwhile, as a part of this change will also come full
color > printing on all pages in both the Newsletter / Profiles, a new printer, > and mailing partner. > > O/ The existing printer will not print anything else for POCA > after the June newsletter. > > O/ Your new printing partner is PrintingCenterUSA, > > O/ effective immediately we will begin to adopt layout > designs/templa tes which will dedicate 20% of the total space to > advertising content display. > the Newsletter needs to be 32 total pages each month, 5 pages in total > space needs to be evenly distributed in 1/8 page, 1/4, 1/3. & 1/2 page > horitzontal ads and 1/2 page vertical ads plus a full page ad. > > O/ You will need to coordinate with Ed with proofs so that he will > have the final say on ad placement before adthing is printed. > > O/ The vendor listings are to be removed. They will have to buy > ads to reach our memb ers. > > O/ We also need to use ONLY the newly revised/cleaned up POCA Road > Script and POCA crest. > > Completely detailed specifications are also set as fixed space > allocations for both pubs without consideration for content > adjustments. > > My view is that these are clearly directives not suggestions to > consider to fellow POCA Board Members. > > Ed, should you wish to challenge these facts, Ill be most pleased to > publish the email in its entirety so everyone may view it within its > full context. > NOTE: There seems to be a need to know the qualifications of the > writers who post here. So, let me explain that my career of 35 years > was in Information Technology ending as VP of IT. I also owned and > operated a mailing house directing publications in the SF Bay Area for > 4 years and owned and operated a 9,000 sq ft independent Toy Store for > 5 years. Hope this helps the readers who wish to know my background. I > LOVE this club and vendors. Its members have helped me throughout the > decades. > Rod > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
--
Michael L. Shortt Savannah, Georgia www.michaelshortt.com michael@michaelshortt.com 912-232-9390
This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you
Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
Can someone enlighten me, please? I am/was under the impression this email list or forum was rescued from being dissolved by Kurt. (thank you Kurt) I was also under the impression this site was not part of or controlled by POCA.. Is this true? Thanks IndyDave Dave, You missed someone's good explanation of the list history. It was started long ago, and when it was time for the guy to move on, he allowed POCA to 'manage' it under certain conditions. Then recently MS decided it should be killed, favoring the POCA Board-like forum. Kurt Byrnes (sp ?) took responsibility and restarted it. Now, the list is 'freed from POCA'... THANKS Kurt! To use the POCA forum requires membership ($75 annually), it is censored for anti-POCA content, is no better than the GREAT (and free) PI Forum, actually much LESS than the PI Forum, and thus is not really used. And when newly-freed spirits discuss things 'here' some POCA people feel compelled to answer. Perhaps the POCA propaganda machine should re-evaluate their communications method. Or maybe Dave, you are adding your commentary too subtly for me (big grin). (Read between the lines ?!? What lines ?!? GRIN) Now... What caught my attention was a statement was made by the POCA-propaganda machine (PPM) regarding evaluation of alternate printers. How this was presented did seem reasonable (at first!). Yet Judy DeRyke (and/or others) commented on how the decision was actually made. This was refuted by the PPM. So someone felt it necessary to post just how POCA makes its decisions (well how Michael Shortt makes decisions for ALL POCA members) using an actual e-mail message as the fact/source/evidence. What better way to form an opinion than with facts, right? The posting of the facts was made by a non-POCA officer. He was then threatened with censure and being kicked out of the club for posting the evidence. WOW ! First, I do not believe the person posting the facts can or should be punished. He did not sign a statement or agree to ANY terms that he is in violation of. Challenging a lie is the right thing to do. If Mr. Shortt wants to try to punish anyone, it should be himself for not conveying the truth in the first place. While I am not passing judgment on any one suggestion for improvement of POCA, I do object to HOW things are done, and HOW people are being treated. More specifically how people who are not in full agreement with the current POCA president are being treated. Let everyone focus on that >one< issue. Correct that problem first, otherwise it will taint any and all (otherwise possibly good) suggestions for change within POCA. With the leak of this document, POCA members and non-members alike have been given insight into just how POCA is currently being run. How the PPM will respond will also be enlightening! Sad, quite sad. Here is an idea mentioned to me recently, perhaps if POCA wants to respond to statements, they could do so, but on their own website, and from their elected Public Relations guy (only), isn't that what the PR job entails? (Sorry to poke at Ed Mendez the current POCA PR guy, as he must have a REALLY tough job, being elected to be the official POCA voice, but having less-than-accurate statements made by the current POCA president as IF he is the sole POCA voice.) What a mess for the PR guy to be stuck with... Chuck
Thank you Chuck for letting me know what has transpired within the organization. Thank you Kurt for the resurrection. It is interesting that the new POCA website forum is far behind this forum as far as popularity. It is also worth noting that technology, the "better", new format of the POCA, is suffering a lack of attendance or participation, compared to this site. The phrase "build it & they will come running" certainly does not sound like it is happening. So why is the old guard allowing this to happen? It seems so flagrant. I think I read a sentiment that in essence said, if you don't like the new structure, you are not needed. This is a car group, how do you censor or better, why would you threaten anyone who disagrees with expulsion? Seems there is the dominate group forcing the subordinate group to leave, the very definition of expulsion. I agree Chuck, so very sad. I would think change is needed sooner than later. Dave -----Original Message----- From: The DeTomaso Registry Guy [mailto:detomasoregistry@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 2:27 PM To: Dave Cc: DeTomaso List Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Can someone enlighten me, please? I am/was under the impression this email list or forum was rescued from being dissolved by Kurt. (thank you Kurt) I was also under the impression this site was not part of or controlled by POCA.. Is this true? Thanks IndyDave Dave, You missed someone's good explanation of the list history. It was started long ago, and when it was time for the guy to move on, he allowed POCA to 'manage' it under certain conditions. Then recently MS decided it should be killed, favoring the POCA Board-like forum. Kurt Byrnes (sp ?) took responsibility and restarted it. Now, the list is 'freed from POCA'... THANKS Kurt! To use the POCA forum requires membership ($75 annually), it is censored for anti-POCA content, is no better than the GREAT (and free) PI Forum, actually much LESS than the PI Forum, and thus is not really used. And when newly-freed spirits discuss things 'here' some POCA people feel compelled to answer. Perhaps the POCA propaganda machine should re-evaluate their communications method. Or maybe Dave, you are adding your commentary too subtly for me (big grin). (Read between the lines ?!? What lines ?!? GRIN) Now... What caught my attention was a statement was made by the POCA-propaganda machine (PPM) regarding evaluation of alternate printers. How this was presented did seem reasonable (at first!). Yet Judy DeRyke (and/or others) commented on how the decision was actually made. This was refuted by the PPM. So someone felt it necessary to post just how POCA makes its decisions (well how Michael Shortt makes decisions for ALL POCA members) using an actual e-mail message as the fact/source/evidence. What better way to form an opinion than with facts, right? The posting of the facts was made by a non-POCA officer. He was then threatened with censure and being kicked out of the club for posting the evidence. WOW ! First, I do not believe the person posting the facts can or should be punished. He did not sign a statement or agree to ANY terms that he is in violation of. Challenging a lie is the right thing to do. If Mr. Shortt wants to try to punish anyone, it should be himself for not conveying the truth in the first place. While I am not passing judgment on any one suggestion for improvement of POCA, I do object to HOW things are done, and HOW people are being treated. More specifically how people who are not in full agreement with the current POCA president are being treated. Let everyone focus on that >one< issue. Correct that problem first, otherwise it will taint any and all (otherwise possibly good) suggestions for change within POCA. With the leak of this document, POCA members and non-members alike have been given insight into just how POCA is currently being run. How the PPM will respond will also be enlightening! Sad, quite sad. Here is an idea mentioned to me recently, perhaps if POCA wants to respond to statements, they could do so, but on their own website, and from their elected Public Relations guy (only), isn't that what the PR job entails? (Sorry to poke at Ed Mendez the current POCA PR guy, as he must have a REALLY tough job, being elected to be the official POCA voice, but having less-than-accurate statements made by the current POCA president as IF he is the sole POCA voice.) What a mess for the PR guy to be stuck with... Chuck
You mean do something before someone burns though the cash reserve playing with their ideas of what a club should be. I heard the POCA cash reserve is over $100,000. I don't know anything about the typical size of cash reserves for car clubs, but that seems like a lot? Ken From: Dave <dave@damardirect.com> To: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <detomasoregistry@gmail.com> Cc: DeTomaso List <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 10:18 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Thank you Chuck for letting me know what has transpired within the organization. Thank you Kurt for the resurrection. It is interesting that the new POCA website forum is far behind this forum as far as popularity. It is also worth noting that technology, the "better", new format of the POCA, is suffering a lack of attendance or participation, compared to this site. The phrase "build it & they will come running" certainly does not sound like it is happening. So why is the old guard allowing this to happen? It seems so flagrant. I think I read a sentiment that in essence said, if you don't like the new structure, you are not needed. This is a car group, how do you censor or better, why would you threaten anyone who disagrees with expulsion? Seems there is the dominate group forcing the subordinate group to leave, the very definition of expulsion. I agree Chuck, so very sad. I would think change is needed sooner than later. Dave -----Original Message----- From: The DeTomaso Registry Guy [mailto:detomasoregistry@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 2:27 PM To: Dave Cc: DeTomaso List Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Can someone enlighten me, please? I am/was under the impression this email list or forum was rescued from being dissolved by Kurt. (thank you Kurt) I was also under the impression this site was not part of or controlled by POCA.. Is this true? Thanks IndyDave Dave, You missed someone's good explanation of the list history. It was started long ago, and when it was time for the guy to move on, he allowed POCA to 'manage' it under certain conditions. Then recently MS decided it should be killed, favoring the POCA Board-like forum. Kurt Byrnes (sp ?) took responsibility and restarted it. Now, the list is 'freed from POCA'... THANKS Kurt! To use the POCA forum requires membership ($75 annually), it is censored for anti-POCA content, is no better than the GREAT (and free) PI Forum, actually much LESS than the PI Forum, and thus is not really used. And when newly-freed spirits discuss things 'here' some POCA people feel compelled to answer. Perhaps the POCA propaganda machine should re-evaluate their communications method. Or maybe Dave, you are adding your commentary too subtly for me (big grin). (Read between the lines ?!? What lines ?!? GRIN) Now... What caught my attention was a statement was made by the POCA-propaganda machine (PPM) regarding evaluation of alternate printers. How this was presented did seem reasonable (at first!). Yet Judy DeRyke (and/or others) commented on how the decision was actually made. This was refuted by the PPM. So someone felt it necessary to post just how POCA makes its decisions (well how Michael Shortt makes decisions for ALL POCA members) using an actual e-mail message as the fact/source/evidence. What better way to form an opinion than with facts, right? The posting of the facts was made by a non-POCA officer. He was then threatened with censure and being kicked out of the club for posting the evidence. WOW ! First, I do not believe the person posting the facts can or should be punished. He did not sign a statement or agree to ANY terms that he is in violation of. Challenging a lie is the right thing to do. If Mr. Shortt wants to try to punish anyone, it should be himself for not conveying the truth in the first place. While I am not passing judgment on any one suggestion for improvement of POCA, I do object to HOW things are done, and HOW people are being treated. More specifically how people who are not in full agreement with the current POCA president are being treated. Let everyone focus on that >one< issue. Correct that problem first, otherwise it will taint any and all (otherwise possibly good) suggestions for change within POCA. With the leak of this document, POCA members and non-members alike have been given insight into just how POCA is currently being run. How the PPM will respond will also be enlightening! Sad, quite sad. Here is an idea mentioned to me recently, perhaps if POCA wants to respond to statements, they could do so, but on their own website, and from their elected Public Relations guy (only), isn't that what the PR job entails? (Sorry to poke at Ed Mendez the current POCA PR guy, as he must have a REALLY tough job, being elected to be the official POCA voice, but having less-than-accurate statements made by the current POCA president as IF he is the sole POCA voice.) What a mess for the PR guy to be stuck with... Chuck _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. You mean do something before someone burns though the cash reserve playing with their ideas of what a club should be. I heard the POCA cash reserve is over $100,000. I don't know anything about the typical size of cash reserves for car clubs, but that seems like a lot? Ken __________________________________________________________________ From: Dave <dave@damardirect.com> To: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <detomasoregistry@gmail.com> Cc: DeTomaso List <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 10:18 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Thank you Chuck for letting me know what has transpired within the organization. Thank you Kurt for the resurrection. It is interesting that the new POCA website forum is far behind this forum as far as popularity. It is also worth noting that technology, the "better", new format of the POCA, is suffering a lack of attendance or participation, compared to this site. The phrase "build it & they will come running" certainly does not sound like it is happening. So why is the old guard allowing this to happen? It seems so flagrant. I think I read a sentiment that in essence said, if you don't like the new structure, you are not needed. This is a car group, how do you censor or better, why would you threaten anyone who disagrees with expulsion? Seems there is the dominate group forcing the subordinate group to leave, the very definition of expulsion. I agree Chuck, so very sad. I would think change is needed sooner than later. Dave -----Original Message----- From: The DeTomaso Registry Guy [mailto:[1]detomasoregistry@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 2:27 PM To: Dave Cc: DeTomaso List Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Can someone enlighten me, please? I am/was under the impression this email list or forum was rescued from being dissolved by Kurt. (thank you Kurt) I was also under the impression this site was not part of or controlled by POCA.. Is this true? Thanks IndyDave Dave, You missed someone's good explanation of the list history. It was started long ago, and when it was time for the guy to move on, he allowed POCA to 'manage' it under certain conditions. Then recently MS decided it should be killed, favoring the POCA Board-like forum. Kurt Byrnes (sp ?) took responsibility and restarted it. Now, the list is 'freed from POCA'... THANKS Kurt! To use the POCA forum requires membership ($75 annually), it is censored for anti-POCA content, is no better than the GREAT (and free) PI Forum, actually much LESS than the PI Forum, and thus is not really used. And when newly-freed spirits discuss things 'here' some POCA people feel compelled to answer. Perhaps the POCA propaganda machine should re-evaluate their communications method. Or maybe Dave, you are adding your commentary too subtly for me (big grin). (Read between the lines ?!? What lines ?!? GRIN) Now... What caught my attention was a statement was made by the POCA-propaganda machine (PPM) regarding evaluation of alternate printers. How this was presented did seem reasonable (at first!). Yet Judy DeRyke (and/or others) commented on how the decision was actually made. This was refuted by the PPM. So someone felt it necessary to post just how POCA makes its decisions (well how Michael Shortt makes decisions for ALL POCA members) using an actual e-mail message as the fact/source/evidence. What better way to form an opinion than with facts, right? The posting of the facts was made by a non-POCA officer. He was then threatened with censure and being kicked out of the club for posting the evidence. WOW ! First, I do not believe the person posting the facts can or should be punished. He did not sign a statement or agree to ANY terms that he is in violation of. Challenging a lie is the right thing to do. If Mr. Shortt wants to try to punish anyone, it should be himself for not conveying the truth in the first place. While I am not passing judgment on any one suggestion for improvement of POCA, I do object to HOW things are done, and HOW people are being treated. More specifically how people who are not in full agreement with the current POCA president are being treated. Let everyone focus on that
one< issue. Correct that problem first, otherwise it will taint any and all (otherwise possibly good) suggestions for change within POCA. With the leak of this document, POCA members and non-members alike have been given insight into just how POCA is currently being run. How the PPM will respond will also be enlightening! Sad, quite sad. Here is an idea mentioned to me recently, perhaps if POCA wants to respond to statements, they could do so, but on their own website, and from their elected Public Relations guy (only), isn't that what the PR job entails? (Sorry to poke at Ed Mendez the current POCA PR guy, as he must have a REALLY tough job, being elected to be the official POCA voice, but having less-than-accurate statements made by the current POCA president as IF he is the sole POCA voice.) What a mess for the PR guy to be stuck with... Chuck
Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [2]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:detomasoregistry@gmail.com 2. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 3. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
Excellent point. Dave From: Ken Green [mailto:kenn_green@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 1:51 PM To: Dave; The DeTomaso Registry Guy Cc: DeTomaso List Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum You mean do something before someone burns though the cash reserve playing with their ideas of what a club should be. I heard the POCA cash reserve is over $100,000. I don't know anything about the typical size of cash reserves for car clubs, but that seems like a lot? Ken ________________________________ From: Dave <dave@damardirect.com<mailto:dave@damardirect.com>> To: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <detomasoregistry@gmail.com<mailto:detomasoregistry@gmail.com>> Cc: DeTomaso List <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 10:18 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Thank you Chuck for letting me know what has transpired within the organization. Thank you Kurt for the resurrection. It is interesting that the new POCA website forum is far behind this forum as far as popularity. It is also worth noting that technology, the "better", new format of the POCA, is suffering a lack of attendance or participation, compared to this site. The phrase "build it & they will come running" certainly does not sound like it is happening. So why is the old guard allowing this to happen? It seems so flagrant. I think I read a sentiment that in essence said, if you don't like the new structure, you are not needed. This is a car group, how do you censor or better, why would you threaten anyone who disagrees with expulsion? Seems there is the dominate group forcing the subordinate group to leave, the very definition of expulsion. I agree Chuck, so very sad. I would think change is needed sooner than later. Dave -----Original Message----- From: The DeTomaso Registry Guy [mailto:detomasoregistry@gmail.com<mailto:detomasoregistry@gmail.com>] Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 2:27 PM To: Dave Cc: DeTomaso List Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Can someone enlighten me, please? I am/was under the impression this email list or forum was rescued from being dissolved by Kurt. (thank you Kurt) I was also under the impression this site was not part of or controlled by POCA.. Is this true? Thanks IndyDave Dave, You missed someone's good explanation of the list history. It was started long ago, and when it was time for the guy to move on, he allowed POCA to 'manage' it under certain conditions. Then recently MS decided it should be killed, favoring the POCA Board-like forum. Kurt Byrnes (sp ?) took responsibility and restarted it. Now, the list is 'freed from POCA'... THANKS Kurt! To use the POCA forum requires membership ($75 annually), it is censored for anti-POCA content, is no better than the GREAT (and free) PI Forum, actually much LESS than the PI Forum, and thus is not really used. And when newly-freed spirits discuss things 'here' some POCA people feel compelled to answer. Perhaps the POCA propaganda machine should re-evaluate their communications method. Or maybe Dave, you are adding your commentary too subtly for me (big grin). (Read between the lines ?!? What lines ?!? GRIN) Now... What caught my attention was a statement was made by the POCA-propaganda machine (PPM) regarding evaluation of alternate printers. How this was presented did seem reasonable (at first!). Yet Judy DeRyke (and/or others) commented on how the decision was actually made. This was refuted by the PPM. So someone felt it necessary to post just how POCA makes its decisions (well how Michael Shortt makes decisions for ALL POCA members) using an actual e-mail message as the fact/source/evidence. What better way to form an opinion than with facts, right? The posting of the facts was made by a non-POCA officer. He was then threatened with censure and being kicked out of the club for posting the evidence. WOW ! First, I do not believe the person posting the facts can or should be punished. He did not sign a statement or agree to ANY terms that he is in violation of. Challenging a lie is the right thing to do. If Mr. Shortt wants to try to punish anyone, it should be himself for not conveying the truth in the first place. While I am not passing judgment on any one suggestion for improvement of POCA, I do object to HOW things are done, and HOW people are being treated. More specifically how people who are not in full agreement with the current POCA president are being treated. Let everyone focus on that >one< issue. Correct that problem first, otherwise it will taint any and all (otherwise possibly good) suggestions for change within POCA. With the leak of this document, POCA members and non-members alike have been given insight into just how POCA is currently being run. How the PPM will respond will also be enlightening! Sad, quite sad. Here is an idea mentioned to me recently, perhaps if POCA wants to respond to statements, they could do so, but on their own website, and from their elected Public Relations guy (only), isn't that what the PR job entails? (Sorry to poke at Ed Mendez the current POCA PR guy, as he must have a REALLY tough job, being elected to be the official POCA voice, but having less-than-accurate statements made by the current POCA president as IF he is the sole POCA voice.) What a mess for the PR guy to be stuck with... Chuck _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Excellent point. Dave From: Ken Green [mailto:kenn_green@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 1:51 PM To: Dave; The DeTomaso Registry Guy Cc: DeTomaso List Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum You mean do something before someone burns though the cash reserve playing with their ideas of what a club should be. I heard the POCA cash reserve is over $100,000. I don't know anything about the typical size of cash reserves for car clubs, but that seems like a lot? Ken _______________________________________________________________________ From: Dave <[1]dave@damardirect.com> To: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <[2]detomasoregistry@gmail.com> Cc: DeTomaso List <[3]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 10:18 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Thank you Chuck for letting me know what has transpired within the organization. Thank you Kurt for the resurrection. It is interesting that the new POCA website forum is far behind this forum as far as popularity. It is also worth noting that technology, the "better", new format of the POCA, is suffering a lack of attendance or participation, compared to this site. The phrase "build it & they will come running" certainly does not sound like it is happening. So why is the old guard allowing this to happen? It seems so flagrant. I think I read a sentiment that in essence said, if you don't like the new structure, you are not needed. This is a car group, how do you censor or better, why would you threaten anyone who disagrees with expulsion? Seems there is the dominate group forcing the subordinate group to leave, the very definition of expulsion. I agree Chuck, so very sad. I would think change is needed sooner than later. Dave -----Original Message----- From: The DeTomaso Registry Guy [mailto:[4]detomasoregistry@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 2:27 PM To: Dave Cc: DeTomaso List Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Can someone enlighten me, please? I am/was under the impression this email list or forum was rescued from being dissolved by Kurt. (thank you Kurt) I was also under the impression this site was not part of or controlled by POCA.. Is this true? Thanks IndyDave Dave, You missed someone's good explanation of the list history. It was started long ago, and when it was time for the guy to move on, he allowed POCA to 'manage' it under certain conditions. Then recently MS decided it should be killed, favoring the POCA Board-like forum. Kurt Byrnes (sp ?) took responsibility and restarted it. Now, the list is 'freed from POCA'... THANKS Kurt! To use the POCA forum requires membership ($75 annually), it is censored for anti-POCA content, is no better than the GREAT (and free) PI Forum, actually much LESS than the PI Forum, and thus is not really used. And when newly-freed spirits discuss things 'here' some POCA people feel compelled to answer. Perhaps the POCA propaganda machine should re-evaluate their communications method. Or maybe Dave, you are adding your commentary too subtly for me (big grin). (Read between the lines ?!? What lines ?!? GRIN) Now... What caught my attention was a statement was made by the POCA-propaganda machine (PPM) regarding evaluation of alternate printers. How this was presented did seem reasonable (at first!). Yet Judy DeRyke (and/or others) commented on how the decision was actually made. This was refuted by the PPM. So someone felt it necessary to post just how POCA makes its decisions (well how Michael Shortt makes decisions for ALL POCA members) using an actual e-mail message as the fact/source/evidence. What better way to form an opinion than with facts, right? The posting of the facts was made by a non-POCA officer. He was then threatened with censure and being kicked out of the club for posting the evidence. WOW ! First, I do not believe the person posting the facts can or should be punished. He did not sign a statement or agree to ANY terms that he is in violation of. Challenging a lie is the right thing to do. If Mr. Shortt wants to try to punish anyone, it should be himself for not conveying the truth in the first place. While I am not passing judgment on any one suggestion for improvement of POCA, I do object to HOW things are done, and HOW people are being treated. More specifically how people who are not in full agreement with the current POCA president are being treated. Let everyone focus on that
one< issue. Correct that problem first, otherwise it will taint any and all (otherwise possibly good) suggestions for change within POCA. With the leak of this document, POCA members and non-members alike have been given insight into just how POCA is currently being run. How the PPM will respond will also be enlightening! Sad, quite sad. Here is an idea mentioned to me recently, perhaps if POCA wants to respond to statements, they could do so, but on their own website, and from their elected Public Relations guy (only), isn't that what the PR job entails? (Sorry to poke at Ed Mendez the current POCA PR guy, as he must have a REALLY tough job, being elected to be the official POCA voice, but having less-than-accurate statements made by the current POCA president as IF he is the sole POCA voice.) What a mess for the PR guy to be stuck with... Chuck
Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [5]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [6]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:dave@damardirect.com 2. mailto:detomasoregistry@gmail.com 3. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 4. mailto:detomasoregistry@gmail.com 5. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 6. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
The Ferrari and Porsche clubs have over $1,000,000 in reserves. Their annual reports are available online. SCCA has more than that last time I checked. Ed Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
On 9/06/2016, at 05:51, Ken Green via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
You mean do something before someone burns though the cash reserve playing with their ideas of what a club should be. I heard the POCA cash reserve is over $100,000. I don't know anything about the typical size of cash reserves for car clubs, but that seems like a lot? Ken __________________________________________________________________
From: Dave <dave@damardirect.com> To: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <detomasoregistry@gmail.com> Cc: DeTomaso List <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 10:18 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Thank you Chuck for letting me know what has transpired within the organization. Thank you Kurt for the resurrection. It is interesting that the new POCA website forum is far behind this forum as far as popularity. It is also worth noting that technology, the "better", new format of the POCA, is suffering a lack of attendance or participation, compared to this site. The phrase "build it & they will come running" certainly does not sound like it is happening. So why is the old guard allowing this to happen? It seems so flagrant. I think I read a sentiment that in essence said, if you don't like the new structure, you are not needed. This is a car group, how do you censor or better, why would you threaten anyone who disagrees with expulsion? Seems there is the dominate group forcing the subordinate group to leave, the very definition of expulsion. I agree Chuck, so very sad. I would think change is needed sooner than later. Dave -----Original Message----- From: The DeTomaso Registry Guy [mailto:[1]detomasoregistry@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 2:27 PM To: Dave Cc: DeTomaso List Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Can someone enlighten me, please? I am/was under the impression this email list or forum was rescued from being dissolved by Kurt. (thank you Kurt) I was also under the impression this site was not part of or controlled by POCA.. Is this true? Thanks IndyDave Dave, You missed someone's good explanation of the list history. It was started long ago, and when it was time for the guy to move on, he allowed POCA to 'manage' it under certain conditions. Then recently MS decided it should be killed, favoring the POCA Board-like forum. Kurt Byrnes (sp ?) took responsibility and restarted it. Now, the list is 'freed from POCA'... THANKS Kurt! To use the POCA forum requires membership ($75 annually), it is censored for anti-POCA content, is no better than the GREAT (and free) PI Forum, actually much LESS than the PI Forum, and thus is not really used. And when newly-freed spirits discuss things 'here' some POCA people feel compelled to answer. Perhaps the POCA propaganda machine should re-evaluate their communications method. Or maybe Dave, you are adding your commentary too subtly for me (big grin). (Read between the lines ?!? What lines ?!? GRIN) Now... What caught my attention was a statement was made by the POCA-propaganda machine (PPM) regarding evaluation of alternate printers. How this was presented did seem reasonable (at first!). Yet Judy DeRyke (and/or others) commented on how the decision was actually made. This was refuted by the PPM. So someone felt it necessary to post just how POCA makes its decisions (well how Michael Shortt makes decisions for ALL POCA members) using an actual e-mail message as the fact/source/evidence. What better way to form an opinion than with facts, right? The posting of the facts was made by a non-POCA officer. He was then threatened with censure and being kicked out of the club for posting the evidence. WOW ! First, I do not believe the person posting the facts can or should be punished. He did not sign a statement or agree to ANY terms that he is in violation of. Challenging a lie is the right thing to do. If Mr. Shortt wants to try to punish anyone, it should be himself for not conveying the truth in the first place. While I am not passing judgment on any one suggestion for improvement of POCA, I do object to HOW things are done, and HOW people are being treated. More specifically how people who are not in full agreement with the current POCA president are being treated. Let everyone focus on that
one< issue. Correct that problem first, otherwise it will taint any and all (otherwise possibly good) suggestions for change within POCA. With the leak of this document, POCA members and non-members alike have been given insight into just how POCA is currently being run. How the PPM will respond will also be enlightening! Sad, quite sad. Here is an idea mentioned to me recently, perhaps if POCA wants to respond to statements, they could do so, but on their own website, and from their elected Public Relations guy (only), isn't that what the PR job entails? (Sorry to poke at Ed Mendez the current POCA PR guy, as he must have a REALLY tough job, being elected to be the official POCA voice, but having less-than-accurate statements made by the current POCA president as IF he is the sole POCA voice.) What a mess for the PR guy to be stuck with... Chuck
Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [2]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
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The Porsche club has over 100,000 members. The Ferrari club has over 6,000. It isn't exactly an apples-to-apples comparison. You need to consider what the reserves might be used for. Personally, I think $100,00 sounds about right, but I would just be guessing. I'd have to see a risk assessment to make an educated guess on an acceptable cash reserve. -- Will On 6/8/16 6:13 PM, "Ed Mendez" <edducati@mac.com> wrote:
The Ferrari and Porsche clubs have over $1,000,000 in reserves. Their annual reports are available online. SCCA has more than that last time I checked.
Ed
Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
On 9/06/2016, at 05:51, Ken Green via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
You mean do something before someone burns though the cash reserve playing with their ideas of what a club should be. I heard the POCA cash reserve is over $100,000. I don't know anything about the typical size of cash reserves for car clubs, but that seems like a lot? Ken __________________________________________________________________
one< issue. Correct that problem first, otherwise it will taint any and all (otherwise possibly good) suggestions for change within POCA. With the leak of this document, POCA members and non-members alike have been given insight into just how POCA is currently being run. How the PPM will respond will also be enlightening! Sad, quite sad. Here is an idea mentioned to me recently, perhaps if POCA wants to respond to statements, they could do so, but on their own website, and from their elected Public Relations guy (only), isn't that what the PR job entails? (Sorry to poke at Ed Mendez the current POCA PR guy, as he must have a REALLY tough job, being elected to be the official POCA voice, but having less-than-accurate statements made by the current POCA
From: Dave <dave@damardirect.com> To: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <detomasoregistry@gmail.com> Cc: DeTomaso List <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 10:18 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Thank you Chuck for letting me know what has transpired within the organization. Thank you Kurt for the resurrection. It is interesting that the new POCA website forum is far behind this forum as far as popularity. It is also worth noting that technology, the "better", new format of the POCA, is suffering a lack of attendance or participation, compared to this site. The phrase "build it & they will come running" certainly does not sound like it is happening. So why is the old guard allowing this to happen? It seems so flagrant. I think I read a sentiment that in essence said, if you don't like the new structure, you are not needed. This is a car group, how do you censor or better, why would you threaten anyone who disagrees with expulsion? Seems there is the dominate group forcing the subordinate group to leave, the very definition of expulsion. I agree Chuck, so very sad. I would think change is needed sooner than later. Dave -----Original Message----- From: The DeTomaso Registry Guy [mailto:[1]detomasoregistry@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 2:27 PM To: Dave Cc: DeTomaso List Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Can someone enlighten me, please? I am/was under the impression this email list or forum was rescued from being dissolved by Kurt. (thank you Kurt) I was also under the impression this site was not part of or controlled by POCA.. Is this true? Thanks IndyDave Dave, You missed someone's good explanation of the list history. It was started long ago, and when it was time for the guy to move on, he allowed POCA to 'manage' it under certain conditions. Then recently MS decided it should be killed, favoring the POCA Board-like forum. Kurt Byrnes (sp ?) took responsibility and restarted it. Now, the list is 'freed from POCA'... THANKS Kurt! To use the POCA forum requires membership ($75 annually), it is censored for anti-POCA content, is no better than the GREAT (and free) PI Forum, actually much LESS than the PI Forum, and thus is not really used. And when newly-freed spirits discuss things 'here' some POCA people feel compelled to answer. Perhaps the POCA propaganda machine should re-evaluate their communications method. Or maybe Dave, you are adding your commentary too subtly for me (big grin). (Read between the lines ?!? What lines ?!? GRIN) Now... What caught my attention was a statement was made by the POCA-propaganda machine (PPM) regarding evaluation of alternate printers. How this was presented did seem reasonable (at first!). Yet Judy DeRyke (and/or others) commented on how the decision was actually made. This was refuted by the PPM. So someone felt it necessary to post just how POCA makes its decisions (well how Michael Shortt makes decisions for ALL POCA members) using an actual e-mail message as the fact/source/evidence. What better way to form an opinion than with facts, right? The posting of the facts was made by a non-POCA officer. He was then threatened with censure and being kicked out of the club for posting the evidence. WOW ! First, I do not believe the person posting the facts can or should be punished. He did not sign a statement or agree to ANY terms that he is in violation of. Challenging a lie is the right thing to do. If Mr. Shortt wants to try to punish anyone, it should be himself for not conveying the truth in the first place. While I am not passing judgment on any one suggestion for improvement of POCA, I do object to HOW things are done, and HOW people are being treated. More specifically how people who are not in full agreement with the current POCA president are being treated. Let everyone focus on that president as IF he is the sole POCA voice.) What a mess for the PR guy to be stuck with... Chuck _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [2]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
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It's two years of operating reserve. As explained by Bob Reid. Ed Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
On 9/06/2016, at 11:00, Will Kooiman <will.kooiman@gmail.com> wrote:
The Porsche club has over 100,000 members.
The Ferrari club has over 6,000.
It isn't exactly an apples-to-apples comparison.
You need to consider what the reserves might be used for. Personally, I think $100,00 sounds about right, but I would just be guessing. I'd have to see a risk assessment to make an educated guess on an acceptable cash reserve.
-- Will
On 6/8/16 6:13 PM, "Ed Mendez" <edducati@mac.com> wrote:
The Ferrari and Porsche clubs have over $1,000,000 in reserves. Their annual reports are available online. SCCA has more than that last time I checked.
Ed
Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
On 9/06/2016, at 05:51, Ken Green via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
You mean do something before someone burns though the cash reserve playing with their ideas of what a club should be. I heard the POCA cash reserve is over $100,000. I don't know anything about the typical size of cash reserves for car clubs, but that seems like a lot? Ken __________________________________________________________________
one< issue. Correct that problem first, otherwise it will taint any and all (otherwise possibly good) suggestions for change within POCA. With the leak of this document, POCA members and non-members alike have been given insight into just how POCA is currently being run. How the PPM will respond will also be enlightening! Sad, quite sad. Here is an idea mentioned to me recently, perhaps if POCA wants to respond to statements, they could do so, but on their own website, and from their elected Public Relations guy (only), isn't that what the PR job entails? (Sorry to poke at Ed Mendez the current POCA PR guy, as he must have a REALLY tough job, being elected to be the official POCA voice, but having less-than-accurate statements made by the current POCA
From: Dave <dave@damardirect.com> To: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <detomasoregistry@gmail.com> Cc: DeTomaso List <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 10:18 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Thank you Chuck for letting me know what has transpired within the organization. Thank you Kurt for the resurrection. It is interesting that the new POCA website forum is far behind this forum as far as popularity. It is also worth noting that technology, the "better", new format of the POCA, is suffering a lack of attendance or participation, compared to this site. The phrase "build it & they will come running" certainly does not sound like it is happening. So why is the old guard allowing this to happen? It seems so flagrant. I think I read a sentiment that in essence said, if you don't like the new structure, you are not needed. This is a car group, how do you censor or better, why would you threaten anyone who disagrees with expulsion? Seems there is the dominate group forcing the subordinate group to leave, the very definition of expulsion. I agree Chuck, so very sad. I would think change is needed sooner than later. Dave -----Original Message----- From: The DeTomaso Registry Guy [mailto:[1]detomasoregistry@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 2:27 PM To: Dave Cc: DeTomaso List Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Can someone enlighten me, please? I am/was under the impression this email list or forum was rescued from being dissolved by Kurt. (thank you Kurt) I was also under the impression this site was not part of or controlled by POCA.. Is this true? Thanks IndyDave Dave, You missed someone's good explanation of the list history. It was started long ago, and when it was time for the guy to move on, he allowed POCA to 'manage' it under certain conditions. Then recently MS decided it should be killed, favoring the POCA Board-like forum. Kurt Byrnes (sp ?) took responsibility and restarted it. Now, the list is 'freed from POCA'... THANKS Kurt! To use the POCA forum requires membership ($75 annually), it is censored for anti-POCA content, is no better than the GREAT (and free) PI Forum, actually much LESS than the PI Forum, and thus is not really used. And when newly-freed spirits discuss things 'here' some POCA people feel compelled to answer. Perhaps the POCA propaganda machine should re-evaluate their communications method. Or maybe Dave, you are adding your commentary too subtly for me (big grin). (Read between the lines ?!? What lines ?!? GRIN) Now... What caught my attention was a statement was made by the POCA-propaganda machine (PPM) regarding evaluation of alternate printers. How this was presented did seem reasonable (at first!). Yet Judy DeRyke (and/or others) commented on how the decision was actually made. This was refuted by the PPM. So someone felt it necessary to post just how POCA makes its decisions (well how Michael Shortt makes decisions for ALL POCA members) using an actual e-mail message as the fact/source/evidence. What better way to form an opinion than with facts, right? The posting of the facts was made by a non-POCA officer. He was then threatened with censure and being kicked out of the club for posting the evidence. WOW ! First, I do not believe the person posting the facts can or should be punished. He did not sign a statement or agree to ANY terms that he is in violation of. Challenging a lie is the right thing to do. If Mr. Shortt wants to try to punish anyone, it should be himself for not conveying the truth in the first place. While I am not passing judgment on any one suggestion for improvement of POCA, I do object to HOW things are done, and HOW people are being treated. More specifically how people who are not in full agreement with the current POCA president are being treated. Let everyone focus on that president as IF he is the sole POCA voice.) What a mess for the PR guy to be stuck with... Chuck _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [2]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
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That seems fair enough. -- Will On 6/8/16 7:02 PM, "Ed Mendez" <edducati@mac.com> wrote:
It's two years of operating reserve. As explained by Bob Reid.
Ed
Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
On 9/06/2016, at 11:00, Will Kooiman <will.kooiman@gmail.com> wrote:
The Porsche club has over 100,000 members.
The Ferrari club has over 6,000.
It isn't exactly an apples-to-apples comparison.
You need to consider what the reserves might be used for. Personally, I think $100,00 sounds about right, but I would just be guessing. I'd have to see a risk assessment to make an educated guess on an acceptable cash reserve.
-- Will
On 6/8/16 6:13 PM, "Ed Mendez" <edducati@mac.com> wrote:
The Ferrari and Porsche clubs have over $1,000,000 in reserves. Their annual reports are available online. SCCA has more than that last time I checked.
Ed
Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
On 9/06/2016, at 05:51, Ken Green via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
You mean do something before someone burns though the cash reserve playing with their ideas of what a club should be. I heard the POCA cash reserve is over $100,000. I don't know anything about the typical size of cash reserves for car clubs, but that seems like a lot? Ken __________________________________________________________________
one< issue. Correct that problem first, otherwise it will taint any and all (otherwise possibly good) suggestions for change within POCA. With the leak of this document, POCA members and non-members alike have been given insight into just how POCA is currently being run. How
From: Dave <dave@damardirect.com> To: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <detomasoregistry@gmail.com> Cc: DeTomaso List <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 10:18 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Thank you Chuck for letting me know what has transpired within the organization. Thank you Kurt for the resurrection. It is interesting that the new POCA website forum is far behind this forum as far as popularity. It is also worth noting that technology, the "better", new format of the POCA, is suffering a lack of attendance or participation, compared to this site. The phrase "build it & they will come running" certainly does not sound like it is happening. So why is the old guard allowing this to happen? It seems so flagrant. I think I read a sentiment that in essence said, if you don't like the new structure, you are not needed. This is a car group, how do you censor or better, why would you threaten anyone who disagrees with expulsion? Seems there is the dominate group forcing the subordinate group to leave, the very definition of expulsion. I agree Chuck, so very sad. I would think change is needed sooner than later. Dave -----Original Message----- From: The DeTomaso Registry Guy [mailto:[1]detomasoregistry@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 2:27 PM To: Dave Cc: DeTomaso List Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Can someone enlighten me, please? I am/was under the impression this email list or forum was rescued from being dissolved by Kurt. (thank you Kurt) I was also under the impression this site was not part of or controlled by POCA.. Is this true? Thanks IndyDave Dave, You missed someone's good explanation of the list history. It was started long ago, and when it was time for the guy to move on, he allowed POCA to 'manage' it under certain conditions. Then recently MS decided it should be killed, favoring the POCA Board-like forum. Kurt Byrnes (sp ?) took responsibility and restarted it. Now, the list is 'freed from POCA'... THANKS Kurt! To use the POCA forum requires membership ($75 annually), it is censored for anti-POCA content, is no better than the GREAT (and free) PI Forum, actually much LESS than the PI Forum, and thus is not really used. And when newly-freed spirits discuss things 'here' some POCA people feel compelled to answer. Perhaps the POCA propaganda machine should re-evaluate their communications method. Or maybe Dave, you are adding your commentary too subtly for me (big grin). (Read between the lines ?!? What lines ?!? GRIN) Now... What caught my attention was a statement was made by the POCA-propaganda machine (PPM) regarding evaluation of alternate printers. How this was presented did seem reasonable (at first!). Yet Judy DeRyke (and/or others) commented on how the decision was actually made. This was refuted by the PPM. So someone felt it necessary to post just how POCA makes its decisions (well how Michael Shortt makes decisions for ALL POCA members) using an actual e-mail message as the fact/source/evidence. What better way to form an opinion than with facts, right? The posting of the facts was made by a non-POCA officer. He was then threatened with censure and being kicked out of the club for posting the evidence. WOW ! First, I do not believe the person posting the facts can or should be punished. He did not sign a statement or agree to ANY terms that he is in violation of. Challenging a lie is the right thing to do. If Mr. Shortt wants to try to punish anyone, it should be himself for not conveying the truth in the first place. While I am not passing judgment on any one suggestion for improvement of POCA, I do object to HOW things are done, and HOW people are being treated. More specifically how people who are not in full agreement with the current POCA president are being treated. Let everyone focus on that the PPM will respond will also be enlightening! Sad, quite sad. Here is an idea mentioned to me recently, perhaps if POCA wants to respond to statements, they could do so, but on their own website, and from their elected Public Relations guy (only), isn't that what the PR job entails? (Sorry to poke at Ed Mendez the current POCA PR guy, as he must have a REALLY tough job, being elected to be the official POCA voice, but having less-than-accurate statements made by the current POCA president as IF he is the sole POCA voice.) What a mess for the PR guy to be stuck with... Chuck _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [2]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
References
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I have the dubious distinction of being the longest standing member in the Porsche Club of America, and the sole Charter member - 61 years - whew - that went fast. I must say the Pantera group is a lot more personable than the Porsche group. #4348
On Jun 8, 2016, at 4:00 PM, Will Kooiman <will.kooiman@gmail.com> wrote:
The Porsche club has over 100,000 members.
The Ferrari club has over 6,000.
It isn't exactly an apples-to-apples comparison.
You need to consider what the reserves might be used for. Personally, I think $100,00 sounds about right, but I would just be guessing. I'd have to see a risk assessment to make an educated guess on an acceptable cash reserve.
-- Will
On 6/8/16 6:13 PM, "Ed Mendez" <edducati@mac.com> wrote:
The Ferrari and Porsche clubs have over $1,000,000 in reserves. Their annual reports are available online. SCCA has more than that last time I checked.
Ed
Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
On 9/06/2016, at 05:51, Ken Green via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
You mean do something before someone burns though the cash reserve playing with their ideas of what a club should be. I heard the POCA cash reserve is over $100,000. I don't know anything about the typical size of cash reserves for car clubs, but that seems like a lot? Ken __________________________________________________________________
one< issue. Correct that problem first, otherwise it will taint any and all (otherwise possibly good) suggestions for change within POCA. With the leak of this document, POCA members and non-members alike have been given insight into just how POCA is currently being run. How the PPM will respond will also be enlightening! Sad, quite sad. Here is an idea mentioned to me recently, perhaps if POCA wants to respond to statements, they could do so, but on their own website, and from their elected Public Relations guy (only), isn't that what the PR job entails? (Sorry to poke at Ed Mendez the current POCA PR guy, as he must have a REALLY tough job, being elected to be the official POCA voice, but having less-than-accurate statements made by the current POCA
From: Dave <dave@damardirect.com> To: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <detomasoregistry@gmail.com> Cc: DeTomaso List <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 10:18 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Thank you Chuck for letting me know what has transpired within the organization. Thank you Kurt for the resurrection. It is interesting that the new POCA website forum is far behind this forum as far as popularity. It is also worth noting that technology, the "better", new format of the POCA, is suffering a lack of attendance or participation, compared to this site. The phrase "build it & they will come running" certainly does not sound like it is happening. So why is the old guard allowing this to happen? It seems so flagrant. I think I read a sentiment that in essence said, if you don't like the new structure, you are not needed. This is a car group, how do you censor or better, why would you threaten anyone who disagrees with expulsion? Seems there is the dominate group forcing the subordinate group to leave, the very definition of expulsion. I agree Chuck, so very sad. I would think change is needed sooner than later. Dave -----Original Message----- From: The DeTomaso Registry Guy [mailto:[1]detomasoregistry@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 2:27 PM To: Dave Cc: DeTomaso List Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Can someone enlighten me, please? I am/was under the impression this email list or forum was rescued from being dissolved by Kurt. (thank you Kurt) I was also under the impression this site was not part of or controlled by POCA.. Is this true? Thanks IndyDave Dave, You missed someone's good explanation of the list history. It was started long ago, and when it was time for the guy to move on, he allowed POCA to 'manage' it under certain conditions. Then recently MS decided it should be killed, favoring the POCA Board-like forum. Kurt Byrnes (sp ?) took responsibility and restarted it. Now, the list is 'freed from POCA'... THANKS Kurt! To use the POCA forum requires membership ($75 annually), it is censored for anti-POCA content, is no better than the GREAT (and free) PI Forum, actually much LESS than the PI Forum, and thus is not really used. And when newly-freed spirits discuss things 'here' some POCA people feel compelled to answer. Perhaps the POCA propaganda machine should re-evaluate their communications method. Or maybe Dave, you are adding your commentary too subtly for me (big grin). (Read between the lines ?!? What lines ?!? GRIN) Now... What caught my attention was a statement was made by the POCA-propaganda machine (PPM) regarding evaluation of alternate printers. How this was presented did seem reasonable (at first!). Yet Judy DeRyke (and/or others) commented on how the decision was actually made. This was refuted by the PPM. So someone felt it necessary to post just how POCA makes its decisions (well how Michael Shortt makes decisions for ALL POCA members) using an actual e-mail message as the fact/source/evidence. What better way to form an opinion than with facts, right? The posting of the facts was made by a non-POCA officer. He was then threatened with censure and being kicked out of the club for posting the evidence. WOW ! First, I do not believe the person posting the facts can or should be punished. He did not sign a statement or agree to ANY terms that he is in violation of. Challenging a lie is the right thing to do. If Mr. Shortt wants to try to punish anyone, it should be himself for not conveying the truth in the first place. While I am not passing judgment on any one suggestion for improvement of POCA, I do object to HOW things are done, and HOW people are being treated. More specifically how people who are not in full agreement with the current POCA president are being treated. Let everyone focus on that president as IF he is the sole POCA voice.) What a mess for the PR guy to be stuck with... Chuck _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [2]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
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On Jun 8, 2016, at 4:00 PM, Will Kooiman <will.kooiman@gmail.com> wrote:
The Porsche club has over 100,000 members.
The Ferrari club has over 6,000.
It isn't exactly an apples-to-apples comparison.
You need to consider what the reserves might be used for. Personally, I think $100,00 sounds about right, but I would just be guessing. I'd have to see a risk assessment to make an educated guess on an acceptable cash reserve.
-- Will
On 6/8/16 6:13 PM, "Ed Mendez" <edducati@mac.com> wrote:
The Ferrari and Porsche clubs have over $1,000,000 in reserves. Their annual reports are available online. SCCA has more than that last time I checked.
Ed
Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
On 9/06/2016, at 05:51, Ken Green via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
You mean do something before someone burns though the cash reserve playing with their ideas of what a club should be. I heard the POCA cash reserve is over $100,000. I don't know anything about the typical size of cash reserves for car clubs, but that seems like a lot? Ken
__________________________________________________________________
one< issue. Correct that problem first, otherwise it will taint any and all (otherwise possibly good) suggestions for change within POCA. With the leak of this document, POCA members and non-members alike have been given insight into just how POCA is currently being run. How the PPM will respond will also be enlightening! Sad, quite sad. Here is an idea mentioned to me recently, perhaps if POCA wants to respond to statements, they could do so, but on their own website, and from their elected Public Relations guy (only), isn't that what
From: Dave <dave@damardirect.com> To: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <detomasoregistry@gmail.com> Cc: DeTomaso List <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 10:18 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Thank you Chuck for letting me know what has transpired within the organization. Thank you Kurt for the resurrection. It is interesting that the new POCA website forum is far behind this forum as far as popularity. It is also worth noting that technology, the "better", new format of the POCA, is suffering a lack of attendance or participation, compared to this site. The phrase "build it & they will come running" certainly does not sound like it is happening. So why is the old guard allowing this to happen? It seems so flagrant. I think I read a sentiment that in essence said, if you don't like the new structure, you are not needed. This is a car group, how do you censor or better, why would you threaten anyone who disagrees with expulsion? Seems there is the dominate group forcing the subordinate group to leave, the very definition of expulsion. I agree Chuck, so very sad. I would think change is needed sooner than later. Dave -----Original Message----- From: The DeTomaso Registry Guy [mailto:[1]detomasoregistry@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 2:27 PM To: Dave Cc: DeTomaso List Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Can someone enlighten me, please? I am/was under the impression this email list or forum was rescued from being dissolved by Kurt. (thank you Kurt) I was also under the impression this site was not part of or controlled by POCA.. Is this true? Thanks IndyDave Dave, You missed someone's good explanation of the list history. It was started long ago, and when it was time for the guy to move on, he allowed POCA to 'manage' it under certain conditions. Then recently MS decided it should be killed, favoring the POCA Board-like forum. Kurt Byrnes (sp ?) took responsibility and restarted it. Now, the list is 'freed from POCA'... THANKS Kurt! To use the POCA forum requires membership ($75 annually), it is censored for anti-POCA content, is no better than the GREAT (and free) PI Forum, actually much LESS than the PI Forum, and thus is not really used. And when newly-freed spirits discuss things 'here' some POCA people feel compelled to answer. Perhaps the POCA propaganda machine should re-evaluate their communications method. Or maybe Dave, you are adding your commentary too subtly for me (big grin). (Read between the lines ?!? What lines ?!? GRIN) Now... What caught my attention was a statement was made by the POCA-propaganda machine (PPM) regarding evaluation of alternate printers. How this was presented did seem reasonable (at first!). Yet Judy DeRyke (and/or others) commented on how the decision was actually made. This was refuted by the PPM. So someone felt it necessary to post just how POCA makes its decisions (well how Michael Shortt makes decisions for ALL POCA members) using an actual e-mail message as the fact/source/evidence. What better way to form an opinion than with facts, right? The posting of the facts was made by a non-POCA officer. He was then threatened with censure and being kicked out of the club for posting the evidence. WOW ! First, I do not believe the person posting the facts can or should be punished. He did not sign a statement or agree to ANY terms that he is in violation of. Challenging a lie is the right thing to do. If Mr. Shortt wants to try to punish anyone, it should be himself for not conveying the truth in the first place. While I am not passing judgment on any one suggestion for improvement of POCA, I do object to HOW things are done, and HOW people are being treated. More specifically how people who are not in full agreement with the current POCA president are being treated. Let everyone focus on that the PR job entails? (Sorry to poke at Ed Mendez the current POCA PR guy, as he must have a REALLY tough job, being elected to be the official POCA voice, but having less-than-accurate statements made by the current POCA president as IF he is the sole POCA voice.) What a mess for the PR guy to be stuck with... Chuck _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [2]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
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Wow ! :) Congratulations ! -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Jack Donahue Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 7:01 PM To: Will Kooiman <will.kooiman@gmail.com> Cc: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum I have the dubious distinction of being the longest standing member in the Porsche Club of America, and the sole Charter member - 61 years - whew - that went fast. I must say the Pantera group is a lot more personable than the Porsche group. #4348 list. list. the links above.
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message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2016.0.7639 / Virus Database: 4598/12375 - Release Date: 06/06/16
Outstanding ! Congratulations ! > From: demongusta@gmail.com > Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 17:00:43 -0700 > To: will.kooiman@gmail.com > CC: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum > > I have the dubious distinction of being the longest standing member in the Porsche Club of America, and the sole Charter member - 61 years - whew - that went fast. I must say the Pantera group is a lot more personable than the Porsche group. > #4348 > > > On Jun 8, 2016, at 4:00 PM, Will Kooiman <will.kooiman@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > The Porsche club has over 100,000 members. > > > > The Ferrari club has over 6,000. > > > > It isn't exactly an apples-to-apples comparison. > > > > You need to consider what the reserves might be used for. Personally, I > > think $100,00 sounds about right, but I would just be guessing. I'd have > > to see a risk assessment to make an educated guess on an acceptable cash > > reserve. > > > > -- > > Will > > > > > > > > > > > > On 6/8/16 6:13 PM, "Ed Mendez" <edducati@mac.com> wrote: > > > >> The Ferrari and Porsche clubs have over $1,000,000 in reserves. Their > >> annual reports are available online. SCCA has more than that last time I > >> checked. > >> > >> Ed > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus > >> > >>> On 9/06/2016, at 05:51, Ken Green via DeTomaso > >>> <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote: > >>> > >>> You mean do something before someone burns though the cash reserve > >>> playing with their ideas of what a club should be. I heard the POCA > >>> cash reserve is over $100,000. I don't know anything about the > >>> typical > >>> size of cash reserves for car clubs, but that seems like a lot? > >>> Ken > >>> __________________________________________________________________ > >>> > >>> From: Dave <dave@damardirect.com> > >>> To: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <detomasoregistry@gmail.com> > >>> Cc: DeTomaso List <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> > >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 10:18 AM > >>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum > >>> Thank you Chuck for letting me know what has transpired within the > >>> organization. Thank you Kurt for the resurrection. > >>> It is interesting that the new POCA website forum is far behind this > >>> forum as far as popularity. It is also worth noting that technology, > >>> the "better", new format of the POCA, is suffering a lack of > >>> attendance > >>> or participation, compared to this site. The phrase "build it & they > >>> will come running" certainly does not sound like it is happening. So > >>> why is the old guard allowing this to happen? It seems so flagrant. I > >>> think I read a sentiment that in essence said, if you don't like the > >>> new structure, you are not needed. This is a car group, how do you > >>> censor or better, why would you threaten anyone who disagrees with > >>> expulsion? > >>> Seems there is the dominate group forcing the subordinate group to > >>> leave, the very definition of expulsion. > >>> I agree Chuck, so very sad. I would think change is needed sooner than > >>> later. > >>> Dave > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: The DeTomaso Registry Guy [mailto:[1]detomasoregistry@gmail.com] > >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 2:27 PM > >>> To: Dave > >>> Cc: DeTomaso List > >>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum > >>> Can someone enlighten me, please? > >>> I am/was under the impression this email list or forum was rescued > >>> from > >>> being dissolved by Kurt. (thank you Kurt) I was also under the > >>> impression this site was not part of or controlled by POCA.. > >>> Is this true? > >>> Thanks > >>> IndyDave > >>> Dave, > >>> You missed someone's good explanation of the list history. It was > >>> started long ago, and when it was time for the guy to move on, he > >>> allowed POCA to 'manage' it under certain conditions. > >>> Then recently MS decided it should be killed, favoring the POCA > >>> Board-like forum. > >>> Kurt Byrnes (sp ?) took responsibility and restarted it. > >>> Now, the list is 'freed from POCA'... THANKS Kurt! > >>> To use the POCA forum requires membership ($75 annually), it is > >>> censored for anti-POCA content, is no better than the GREAT (and free) > >>> PI Forum, actually much LESS than the PI Forum, and thus is not really > >>> used. > >>> And when newly-freed spirits discuss things 'here' some POCA people > >>> feel compelled to answer. > >>> Perhaps the POCA propaganda machine should re-evaluate their > >>> communications method. > >>> Or maybe Dave, you are adding your commentary too subtly for me (big > >>> grin). > >>> (Read between the lines ?!? What lines ?!? GRIN) > >>> Now... > >>> What caught my attention was a statement was made by the > >>> POCA-propaganda machine (PPM) regarding evaluation of alternate > >>> printers. > >>> How this was presented did seem reasonable (at first!). Yet Judy > >>> DeRyke > >>> (and/or others) commented on how the decision was actually made. This > >>> was refuted by the PPM. So someone felt it necessary to post just how > >>> POCA makes its decisions (well how Michael Shortt makes decisions for > >>> ALL POCA members) using an actual e-mail message as the > >>> fact/source/evidence. What better way to form an opinion than with > >>> facts, right? > >>> The posting of the facts was made by a non-POCA officer. > >>> He was then threatened with censure and being kicked out of the club > >>> for posting the evidence. WOW ! > >>> First, I do not believe the person posting the facts can or should be > >>> punished. He did not sign a statement or agree to ANY terms that he > >>> is > >>> in violation of. Challenging a lie is the right thing to do. If Mr. > >>> Shortt wants to try to punish anyone, it should be himself for not > >>> conveying the truth in the first place. > >>> While I am not passing judgment on any one suggestion for improvement > >>> of POCA, I do object to HOW things are done, and HOW people are being > >>> treated. > >>> More specifically how people who are not in full agreement with the > >>> current POCA president are being treated. Let everyone focus on that > >>>> one< issue. Correct that problem first, otherwise it will taint any > >>> and all (otherwise possibly good) suggestions for change within POCA. > >>> With the leak of this document, POCA members and non-members alike > >>> have > >>> been given insight into just how POCA is currently being run. How the > >>> PPM will respond will also be enlightening! > >>> Sad, quite sad. > >>> Here is an idea mentioned to me recently, perhaps if POCA wants to > >>> respond to statements, they could do so, but on their own website, and > >>> from their elected Public Relations guy (only), isn't that what the PR > >>> job entails? > >>> (Sorry to poke at Ed Mendez the current POCA PR guy, as he must have a > >>> REALLY tough job, being elected to be the official POCA voice, but > >>> having less-than-accurate statements made by the current POCA > >>> president > >>> as IF he is the sole POCA voice.) > >>> What a mess for the PR guy to be stuck with... > >>> Chuck > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > >>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > >>> DeTomaso mailing list > >>> [2]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > >>> [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > >>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) > >>> use the links above. > >>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any > >>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the > >>> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive > >>> or approve the archiving of list messages. > >>> > >>> References > >>> > >>> 1. mailto:detomasoregistry@gmail.com > >>> 2. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > >>> 3. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> > >>> > >>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > >>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > >>> DeTomaso mailing list > >>> DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > >>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > >>> > >>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) > >>> use the links above. > >>> > >>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any > >>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. > >>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or > >>> approve the archiving of list messages. > >> _______________________________________________ > >> > >> > >> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > >> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > >> DeTomaso mailing list > >> DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > >> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > >> > >> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use > >> the links above. > >> > >> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any > >> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. > >> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or > >> approve the archiving of list messages. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > > DeTomaso mailing list > > DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. > > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Outstanding ! Congratulations ! > From: demongusta@gmail.com > Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 17:00:43 -0700 > To: will.kooiman@gmail.com > CC: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum > > I have the dubious distinction of being the longest standing member in the Porsche Club of America, and the sole Charter member - 61 years - whew - that went fast. I must say the Pantera group is a lot more personable than the Porsche group. > #4348 > > > On Jun 8, 2016, at 4:00 PM, Will Kooiman <will.kooiman@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > The Porsche club has over 100,000 members. > > > > The Ferrari club has over 6,000. > > > > It isn't exactly an apples-to-apples comparison. > > > > You need to consider what the reserves might be used for. Personally, I > > think $100,00 sounds about right, but I would just be guessing. I'd have > > to see a risk assessment to make an educated guess on an acceptable cash > > reserve. > > > > -- > > Will > > > > > > > > > > > > On 6/8/16 6:13 PM, "Ed Mendez" <edducati@mac.com> wrote: > > > >> The Ferrari and Porsche clubs have over $1,000,000 in reserves. Their > >> annual reports are available online. SCCA has more than that last time I > >> checked. > >> > >> Ed > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus > >> > >>> On 9/06/2016, at 05:51, Ken Green via DeTomaso > >>> <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote: > >>> > >>> You mean do something before someone burns though the cash reserve > >>> playing with their ideas of what a club should be. I heard the POCA > >>> cash reserve is over $100,000. I don't know anything about the > >>> typical > >>> size of cash reserves for car clubs, but that seems like a lot? > >>> Ken > >>> __________________________________________________________________ > >>> > >>> From: Dave <dave@damardirect.com> > >>> To: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <detomasoregistry@gmail.com> > >>> Cc: DeTomaso List <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> > >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 10:18 AM > >>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum > >>> Thank you Chuck for letting me know what has transpired within the > >>> organization. Thank you Kurt for the resurrection. > >>> It is interesting that the new POCA website forum is far behind this > >>> forum as far as popularity. It is also worth noting that technology, > >>> the "better", new format of the POCA, is suffering a lack of > >>> attendance > >>> or participation, compared to this site. The phrase "build it & they > >>> will come running" certainly does not sound like it is happening. So > >>> why is the old guard allowing this to happen? It seems so flagrant. I > >>> think I read a sentiment that in essence said, if you don't like the > >>> new structure, you are not needed. This is a car group, how do you > >>> censor or better, why would you threaten anyone who disagrees with > >>> expulsion? > >>> Seems there is the dominate group forcing the subordinate group to > >>> leave, the very definition of expulsion. > >>> I agree Chuck, so very sad. I would think change is needed sooner than > >>> later. > >>> Dave > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: The DeTomaso Registry Guy [mailto:[1]detomasoregistry@gmail.com] > >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 2:27 PM > >>> To: Dave > >>> Cc: DeTomaso List > >>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum > >>> Can someone enlighten me, please? > >>> I am/was under the impression this email list or forum was rescued > >>> from > >>> being dissolved by Kurt. (thank you Kurt) I was also under the > >>> impression this site was not part of or controlled by POCA.. > >>> Is this true? > >>> Thanks > >>> IndyDave > >>> Dave, > >>> You missed someone's good explanation of the list history. It was > >>> started long ago, and when it was time for the guy to move on, he > >>> allowed POCA to 'manage' it under certain conditions. > >>> Then recently MS decided it should be killed, favoring the POCA > >>> Board-like forum. > >>> Kurt Byrnes (sp ?) took responsibility and restarted it. > >>> Now, the list is 'freed from POCA'... THANKS Kurt! > >>> To use the POCA forum requires membership ($75 annually), it is > >>> censored for anti-POCA content, is no better than the GREAT (and free) > >>> PI Forum, actually much LESS than the PI Forum, and thus is not really > >>> used. > >>> And when newly-freed spirits discuss things 'here' some POCA people > >>> feel compelled to answer. > >>> Perhaps the POCA propaganda machine should re-evaluate their > >>> communications method. > >>> Or maybe Dave, you are adding your commentary too subtly for me (big > >>> grin). > >>> (Read between the lines ?!? What lines ?!? GRIN) > >>> Now... > >>> What caught my attention was a statement was made by the > >>> POCA-propaganda machine (PPM) regarding evaluation of alternate > >>> printers. > >>> How this was presented did seem reasonable (at first!). Yet Judy > >>> DeRyke > >>> (and/or others) commented on how the decision was actually made. This > >>> was refuted by the PPM. So someone felt it necessary to post just how > >>> POCA makes its decisions (well how Michael Shortt makes decisions for > >>> ALL POCA members) using an actual e-mail message as the > >>> fact/source/evidence. What better way to form an opinion than with > >>> facts, right? > >>> The posting of the facts was made by a non-POCA officer. > >>> He was then threatened with censure and being kicked out of the club > >>> for posting the evidence. WOW ! > >>> First, I do not believe the person posting the facts can or should be > >>> punished. He did not sign a statement or agree to ANY terms that he > >>> is > >>> in violation of. Challenging a lie is the right thing to do. If Mr. > >>> Shortt wants to try to punish anyone, it should be himself for not > >>> conveying the truth in the first place. > >>> While I am not passing judgment on any one suggestion for improvement > >>> of POCA, I do object to HOW things are done, and HOW people are being > >>> treated. > >>> More specifically how people who are not in full agreement with the > >>> current POCA president are being treated. Let everyone focus on that > >>>> one< issue. Correct that problem first, otherwise it will taint any > >>> and all (otherwise possibly good) suggestions for change within POCA. > >>> With the leak of this document, POCA members and non-members alike > >>> have > >>> been given insight into just how POCA is currently being run. How the > >>> PPM will respond will also be enlightening! > >>> Sad, quite sad. > >>> Here is an idea mentioned to me recently, perhaps if POCA wants to > >>> respond to statements, they could do so, but on their own website, and > >>> from their elected Public Relations guy (only), isn't that what the PR > >>> job entails? > >>> (Sorry to poke at Ed Mendez the current POCA PR guy, as he must have a > >>> REALLY tough job, being elected to be the official POCA voice, but > >>> having less-than-accurate statements made by the current POCA > >>> president > >>> as IF he is the sole POCA voice.) > >>> What a mess for the PR guy to be stuck with... > >>> Chuck > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > >>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > >>> DeTomaso mailing list > >>> [2]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > >>> [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > >>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) > >>> use the links above. > >>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any > >>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the > >>> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive > >>> or approve the archiving of list messages. > >>> > >>> References > >>> > >>> 1. mailto:detomasoregistry@gmail.com > >>> 2. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > >>> 3. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> > >>> > >>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > >>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > >>> DeTomaso mailing list > >>> DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > >>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > >>> > >>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) > >>> use the links above. > >>> > >>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any > >>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. > >>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or > >>> approve the archiving of list messages. > >> _______________________________________________ > >> > >> > >> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > >> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > >> DeTomaso mailing list > >> DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > >> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > >> > >> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use > >> the links above. > >> > >> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any > >> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. > >> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or > >> approve the archiving of list messages. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > > DeTomaso mailing list > > DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. > > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
Congrats, indeed! Sent from Effie's iPad
On Jun 8, 2016, at 5:00 PM, Jack Donahue <demongusta@gmail.com> wrote:
I have the dubious distinction of being the longest standing member in the Porsche Club of America, and the sole Charter member - 61 years - whew - that went fast. I must say the Pantera group is a lot more personable than the Porsche group. #4348
On Jun 8, 2016, at 4:00 PM, Will Kooiman <will.kooiman@gmail.com> wrote:
The Porsche club has over 100,000 members.
The Ferrari club has over 6,000.
It isn't exactly an apples-to-apples comparison.
You need to consider what the reserves might be used for. Personally, I think $100,00 sounds about right, but I would just be guessing. I'd have to see a risk assessment to make an educated guess on an acceptable cash reserve.
-- Will
On 6/8/16 6:13 PM, "Ed Mendez" <edducati@mac.com> wrote:
The Ferrari and Porsche clubs have over $1,000,000 in reserves. Their annual reports are available online. SCCA has more than that last time I checked.
Ed
Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
On 9/06/2016, at 05:51, Ken Green via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
You mean do something before someone burns though the cash reserve playing with their ideas of what a club should be. I heard the POCA cash reserve is over $100,000. I don't know anything about the typical size of cash reserves for car clubs, but that seems like a lot? Ken __________________________________________________________________
one< issue. Correct that problem first, otherwise it will taint any and all (otherwise possibly good) suggestions for change within POCA. With the leak of this document, POCA members and non-members alike have been given insight into just how POCA is currently being run. How the PPM will respond will also be enlightening! Sad, quite sad. Here is an idea mentioned to me recently, perhaps if POCA wants to respond to statements, they could do so, but on their own website, and from their elected Public Relations guy (only), isn't that what the PR job entails? (Sorry to poke at Ed Mendez the current POCA PR guy, as he must have a REALLY tough job, being elected to be the official POCA voice, but having less-than-accurate statements made by the current POCA
From: Dave <dave@damardirect.com> To: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <detomasoregistry@gmail.com> Cc: DeTomaso List <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 10:18 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Thank you Chuck for letting me know what has transpired within the organization. Thank you Kurt for the resurrection. It is interesting that the new POCA website forum is far behind this forum as far as popularity. It is also worth noting that technology, the "better", new format of the POCA, is suffering a lack of attendance or participation, compared to this site. The phrase "build it & they will come running" certainly does not sound like it is happening. So why is the old guard allowing this to happen? It seems so flagrant. I think I read a sentiment that in essence said, if you don't like the new structure, you are not needed. This is a car group, how do you censor or better, why would you threaten anyone who disagrees with expulsion? Seems there is the dominate group forcing the subordinate group to leave, the very definition of expulsion. I agree Chuck, so very sad. I would think change is needed sooner than later. Dave -----Original Message----- From: The DeTomaso Registry Guy [mailto:[1]detomasoregistry@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 2:27 PM To: Dave Cc: DeTomaso List Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Can someone enlighten me, please? I am/was under the impression this email list or forum was rescued from being dissolved by Kurt. (thank you Kurt) I was also under the impression this site was not part of or controlled by POCA.. Is this true? Thanks IndyDave Dave, You missed someone's good explanation of the list history. It was started long ago, and when it was time for the guy to move on, he allowed POCA to 'manage' it under certain conditions. Then recently MS decided it should be killed, favoring the POCA Board-like forum. Kurt Byrnes (sp ?) took responsibility and restarted it. Now, the list is 'freed from POCA'... THANKS Kurt! To use the POCA forum requires membership ($75 annually), it is censored for anti-POCA content, is no better than the GREAT (and free) PI Forum, actually much LESS than the PI Forum, and thus is not really used. And when newly-freed spirits discuss things 'here' some POCA people feel compelled to answer. Perhaps the POCA propaganda machine should re-evaluate their communications method. Or maybe Dave, you are adding your commentary too subtly for me (big grin). (Read between the lines ?!? What lines ?!? GRIN) Now... What caught my attention was a statement was made by the POCA-propaganda machine (PPM) regarding evaluation of alternate printers. How this was presented did seem reasonable (at first!). Yet Judy DeRyke (and/or others) commented on how the decision was actually made. This was refuted by the PPM. So someone felt it necessary to post just how POCA makes its decisions (well how Michael Shortt makes decisions for ALL POCA members) using an actual e-mail message as the fact/source/evidence. What better way to form an opinion than with facts, right? The posting of the facts was made by a non-POCA officer. He was then threatened with censure and being kicked out of the club for posting the evidence. WOW ! First, I do not believe the person posting the facts can or should be punished. He did not sign a statement or agree to ANY terms that he is in violation of. Challenging a lie is the right thing to do. If Mr. Shortt wants to try to punish anyone, it should be himself for not conveying the truth in the first place. While I am not passing judgment on any one suggestion for improvement of POCA, I do object to HOW things are done, and HOW people are being treated. More specifically how people who are not in full agreement with the current POCA president are being treated. Let everyone focus on that president as IF he is the sole POCA voice.) What a mess for the PR guy to be stuck with... Chuck _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [2]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
References
1. mailto:detomasoregistry@gmail.com 2. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 3. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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Probably good to remember that the only reason there is a reserve at all is because budget that was set up for a number of profiles editions was not spent - as the editions weren't completed. I think without that "windfall " the club would be pretty much break even. On Wednesday, June 8, 2016, Effie Richards <erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com> wrote: > Congrats, indeed! > > Sent from Effie's iPad > > > On Jun 8, 2016, at 5:00 PM, Jack Donahue <demongusta@gmail.com > <javascript:;>> wrote: > > > > I have the dubious distinction of being the longest standing member in > the Porsche Club of America, and the sole Charter member - 61 years - whew > - that went fast. I must say the Pantera group is a lot more personable > than the Porsche group. > > #4348 > > > >> On Jun 8, 2016, at 4:00 PM, Will Kooiman <will.kooiman@gmail.com > <javascript:;>> wrote: > >> > >> The Porsche club has over 100,000 members. > >> > >> The Ferrari club has over 6,000. > >> > >> It isn't exactly an apples-to-apples comparison. > >> > >> You need to consider what the reserves might be used for. Personally, I > >> think $100,00 sounds about right, but I would just be guessing. I'd > have > >> to see a risk assessment to make an educated guess on an acceptable cash > >> reserve. > >> > >> -- > >> Will > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>> On 6/8/16 6:13 PM, "Ed Mendez" <edducati@mac.com <javascript:;>> > wrote: > >>> > >>> The Ferrari and Porsche clubs have over $1,000,000 in reserves. Their > >>> annual reports are available online. SCCA has more than that last time > I > >>> checked. > >>> > >>> Ed > >>> > >>> Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus > >>> > >>>> On 9/06/2016, at 05:51, Ken Green via DeTomaso > >>>> <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <javascript:;>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> You mean do something before someone burns though the cash reserve > >>>> playing with their ideas of what a club should be. I heard the POCA > >>>> cash reserve is over $100,000. I don't know anything about the > >>>> typical > >>>> size of cash reserves for car clubs, but that seems like a lot? > >>>> Ken > >>>> __________________________________________________________________ > >>>> > >>>> From: Dave <dave@damardirect.com <javascript:;>> > >>>> To: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <detomasoregistry@gmail.com > <javascript:;>> > >>>> Cc: DeTomaso List <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <javascript:;>> > >>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 10:18 AM > >>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum > >>>> Thank you Chuck for letting me know what has transpired within the > >>>> organization. Thank you Kurt for the resurrection. > >>>> It is interesting that the new POCA website forum is far behind this > >>>> forum as far as popularity. It is also worth noting that technology, > >>>> the "better", new format of the POCA, is suffering a lack of > >>>> attendance > >>>> or participation, compared to this site. The phrase "build it & they > >>>> will come running" certainly does not sound like it is happening. So > >>>> why is the old guard allowing this to happen? It seems so flagrant. I > >>>> think I read a sentiment that in essence said, if you don't like the > >>>> new structure, you are not needed. This is a car group, how do you > >>>> censor or better, why would you threaten anyone who disagrees with > >>>> expulsion? > >>>> Seems there is the dominate group forcing the subordinate group to > >>>> leave, the very definition of expulsion. > >>>> I agree Chuck, so very sad. I would think change is needed sooner than > >>>> later. > >>>> Dave > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: The DeTomaso Registry Guy [mailto:[1]detomasoregistry@gmail.com > <javascript:;>] > >>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 2:27 PM > >>>> To: Dave > >>>> Cc: DeTomaso List > >>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum > >>>> Can someone enlighten me, please? > >>>> I am/was under the impression this email list or forum was rescued > >>>> from > >>>> being dissolved by Kurt. (thank you Kurt) I was also under the > >>>> impression this site was not part of or controlled by POCA.. > >>>> Is this true? > >>>> Thanks > >>>> IndyDave > >>>> Dave, > >>>> You missed someone's good explanation of the list history. It was > >>>> started long ago, and when it was time for the guy to move on, he > >>>> allowed POCA to 'manage' it under certain conditions. > >>>> Then recently MS decided it should be killed, favoring the POCA > >>>> Board-like forum. > >>>> Kurt Byrnes (sp ?) took responsibility and restarted it. > >>>> Now, the list is 'freed from POCA'... THANKS Kurt! > >>>> To use the POCA forum requires membership ($75 annually), it is > >>>> censored for anti-POCA content, is no better than the GREAT (and free) > >>>> PI Forum, actually much LESS than the PI Forum, and thus is not really > >>>> used. > >>>> And when newly-freed spirits discuss things 'here' some POCA people > >>>> feel compelled to answer. > >>>> Perhaps the POCA propaganda machine should re-evaluate their > >>>> communications method. > >>>> Or maybe Dave, you are adding your commentary too subtly for me (big > >>>> grin). > >>>> (Read between the lines ?!? What lines ?!? GRIN) > >>>> Now... > >>>> What caught my attention was a statement was made by the > >>>> POCA-propaganda machine (PPM) regarding evaluation of alternate > >>>> printers. > >>>> How this was presented did seem reasonable (at first!). Yet Judy > >>>> DeRyke > >>>> (and/or others) commented on how the decision was actually made. This > >>>> was refuted by the PPM. So someone felt it necessary to post just how > >>>> POCA makes its decisions (well how Michael Shortt makes decisions for > >>>> ALL POCA members) using an actual e-mail message as the > >>>> fact/source/evidence. What better way to form an opinion than with > >>>> facts, right? > >>>> The posting of the facts was made by a non-POCA officer. > >>>> He was then threatened with censure and being kicked out of the club > >>>> for posting the evidence. WOW ! > >>>> First, I do not believe the person posting the facts can or should be > >>>> punished. He did not sign a statement or agree to ANY terms that he > >>>> is > >>>> in violation of. Challenging a lie is the right thing to do. If Mr. > >>>> Shortt wants to try to punish anyone, it should be himself for not > >>>> conveying the truth in the first place. > >>>> While I am not passing judgment on any one suggestion for improvement > >>>> of POCA, I do object to HOW things are done, and HOW people are being > >>>> treated. > >>>> More specifically how people who are not in full agreement with the > >>>> current POCA president are being treated. Let everyone focus on that > >>>>> one< issue. Correct that problem first, otherwise it will taint any > >>>> and all (otherwise possibly good) suggestions for change within POCA. > >>>> With the leak of this document, POCA members and non-members alike > >>>> have > >>>> been given insight into just how POCA is currently being run. How the > >>>> PPM will respond will also be enlightening! > >>>> Sad, quite sad. > >>>> Here is an idea mentioned to me recently, perhaps if POCA wants to > >>>> respond to statements, they could do so, but on their own website, and > >>>> from their elected Public Relations guy (only), isn't that what the PR > >>>> job entails? > >>>> (Sorry to poke at Ed Mendez the current POCA PR guy, as he must have a > >>>> REALLY tough job, being elected to be the official POCA voice, but > >>>> having less-than-accurate statements made by the current POCA > >>>> president > >>>> as IF he is the sole POCA voice.) > >>>> What a mess for the PR guy to be stuck with... > >>>> Chuck > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > >>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > >>>> DeTomaso mailing list > >>>> [2]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com <javascript:;> > >>>> [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > >>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) > >>>> use the links above. > >>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any > >>>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the > >>>> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive > >>>> or approve the archiving of list messages. > >>>> > >>>> References > >>>> > >>>> 1. mailto:detomasoregistry@gmail.com <javascript:;> > >>>> 2. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com <javascript:;> > >>>> 3. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > >>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > >>>> DeTomaso mailing list > >>>> DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com <javascript:;> > >>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > >>>> > >>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) > >>>> use the links above. > >>>> > >>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any > >>>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the > list. > >>>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or > >>>> approve the archiving of list messages. > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> > >>> > >>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > >>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > >>> DeTomaso mailing list > >>> DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com <javascript:;> > >>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > >>> > >>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) > use > >>> the links above. > >>> > >>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any > >>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the > list. > >>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or > >>> approve the archiving of list messages. > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> > >> > >> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > >> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > >> DeTomaso mailing list > >> DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com <javascript:;> > >> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > >> > >> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) > use the links above. > >> > >> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any > message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. > They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve > the archiving of list messages. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > > DeTomaso mailing list > > DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com <javascript:;> > > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) > use the links above. > > > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any > message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. > They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve > the archiving of list messages. > > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com <javascript:;> > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use > the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any > message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. > They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve > the archiving of list messages. > Probably good to remember that the only reason there is a reserve at all is because budget that was set up for a number of profiles editions was not spent - as the editions weren't completed. I think withoutA that "windfall " the club would be pretty much break even. On Wednesday, June 8, 2016, Effie Richards <[1]erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com> wrote: Congrats, indeed! Sent from Effie's iPad > On Jun 8, 2016, at 5:00 PM, Jack Donahue <[2]demongusta@gmail.com> wrote: > > I have the dubious distinction of being the longest standing member in the Porsche Club of America, and the sole Charter member - 61 years - whew - that went fast. I must say the Pantera group is a lot more personable than the Porsche group. > #4348 > >> On Jun 8, 2016, at 4:00 PM, Will Kooiman <[3]will.kooiman@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> The Porsche club has over 100,000 members. >> >> The Ferrari club has over 6,000. >> >> It isn't exactly an apples-to-apples comparison. >> >> You need to consider what the reserves might be used for.A Personally, I >> think $100,00 sounds about right, but I would just be guessing.A I'd have >> to see a risk assessment to make an educated guess on an acceptable cash >> reserve. >> >> -- >> Will >> >> >> >> >> >>> On 6/8/16 6:13 PM, "Ed Mendez" <[4]edducati@mac.com> wrote: >>> >>> The Ferrari and Porsche clubs have over $1,000,000 in reserves. Their >>> annual reports are available online. SCCA has more than that last time I >>> checked. >>> >>> Ed >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus >>> >>>> On 9/06/2016, at 05:51, Ken Green via DeTomaso >>>> <[5]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> You mean do something before someone burns though the cash reserve >>>> playing with their ideas of what a club should be.A I heard the POCA >>>> cash reserve is over $100,000.A I don't know anything about the >>>> typical >>>> size of cash reserves for car clubs, but that seems like a lot? >>>> Ken >>>>A A __________________________________________________________________ >>>> >>>> From: Dave <[6]dave@damardirect.com> >>>> To: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <[7]detomasoregistry@gmail.com> >>>> Cc: DeTomaso List <[8]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 10:18 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum >>>> Thank you Chuck for letting me know what has transpired within the >>>> organization. Thank you Kurt for the resurrection. >>>> It is interesting that the new POCA website forum is far behind this >>>> forum as far as popularity. It is also worth noting that technology, >>>> the "better", new format of the POCA, is suffering a lack of >>>> attendance >>>> or participation, compared to this site. The phrase "build it & they >>>> will come running" certainly does not sound like it is happening. So >>>> why is the old guard allowing this to happen? It seems so flagrant. I >>>> think I read a sentiment that in essence said, if you don't like the >>>> new structure, you are not needed. This is a car group, how do you >>>> censor or better, why would you threaten anyone who disagrees with >>>> expulsion? >>>> Seems there is the dominate group forcing the subordinate group to >>>> leave, the very definition of expulsion. >>>> I agree Chuck, so very sad. I would think change is needed sooner than >>>> later. >>>> Dave >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: The DeTomaso Registry Guy [mailto:[1][9]detomasoregistry@gmail.com] >>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 2:27 PM >>>> To: Dave >>>> Cc: DeTomaso List >>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum >>>> Can someone enlighten me, please? >>>> I am/was under the impression this email list or forum was rescued >>>> from >>>> being dissolved by Kurt. (thank you Kurt) I was also under the >>>> impression this site was not part of or controlled by POCA.. >>>> Is this true? >>>> Thanks >>>> IndyDave >>>> Dave, >>>> You missed someone's good explanation of the list history.A It was >>>> started long ago, and when it was time for the guy to move on, he >>>> allowed POCA to 'manage' it under certain conditions. >>>> Then recently MS decided it should be killed, favoring the POCA >>>> Board-like forum. >>>> Kurt Byrnes (sp ?) took responsibility and restarted it. >>>> Now, the list is 'freed from POCA'...A THANKS Kurt! >>>> To use the POCA forum requires membership ($75 annually), it is >>>> censored for anti-POCA content, is no better than the GREAT (and free) >>>> PI Forum, actually much LESS than the PI Forum, and thus is not really >>>> used. >>>> And when newly-freed spirits discuss things 'here' some POCA people >>>> feel compelled to answer. >>>> Perhaps the POCA propaganda machine should re-evaluate their >>>> communications method. >>>> Or maybe Dave, you are adding your commentary too subtly for me (big >>>> grin). >>>> (Read between the lines ?!?A What lines ?!?A GRIN) >>>> Now... >>>> What caught my attention was a statement was made by the >>>> POCA-propaganda machine (PPM) regarding evaluation of alternate >>>> printers. >>>> How this was presented did seem reasonable (at first!). Yet Judy >>>> DeRyke >>>> (and/or others) commented on how the decision was actually made.A This >>>> was refuted by the PPM. So someone felt it necessary to post just how >>>> POCA makes its decisions (well how Michael Shortt makes decisions for >>>> ALL POCA members) using an actual e-mail message as the >>>> fact/source/evidence. What better way to form an opinion than with >>>> facts, right? >>>> The posting of the facts was made by a non-POCA officer. >>>> He was then threatened with censure and being kicked out of the club >>>> for posting the evidence.A WOW ! >>>> First, I do not believe the person posting the facts can or should be >>>> punished.A He did not sign a statement or agree to ANY terms that he >>>> is >>>> in violation of. Challenging a lie is the right thing to do. If Mr. >>>> Shortt wants to try to punish anyone, it should be himself for not >>>> conveying the truth in the first place. >>>> While I am not passing judgment on any one suggestion for improvement >>>> of POCA, I do object to HOW things are done, and HOW people are being >>>> treated. >>>> More specifically how people who are not in full agreement with the >>>> current POCA president are being treated.A Let everyone focus on that >>>>> one< issue.A Correct that problem first, otherwise it will taint any >>>> and all (otherwise possibly good) suggestions for change within POCA. >>>> With the leak of this document, POCA members and non-members alike >>>> have >>>> been given insight into just how POCA is currently being run.A How the >>>> PPM will respond will also be enlightening! >>>> Sad, quite sad. >>>> Here is an idea mentioned to me recently, perhaps if POCA wants to >>>> respond to statements, they could do so, but on their own website, and >>>> from their elected Public Relations guy (only), isn't that what the PR >>>> job entails? >>>> (Sorry to poke at Ed Mendez the current POCA PR guy, as he must have a >>>> REALLY tough job, being elected to be the official POCA voice, but >>>> having less-than-accurate statements made by the current POCA >>>> president >>>> as IF he is the sole POCA voice.) >>>> What a mess for the PR guy to be stuck with... >>>> Chuck >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA >>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes >>>> DeTomaso mailing list >>>> [2][10]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com >>>> [3][11]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) >>>> use the links above. >>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any >>>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the >>>> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive >>>> or approve the archiving of list messages. >>>> >>>> References >>>> >>>> 1. mailto:[12]detomasoregistry@gmail.com >>>> 2. mailto:[13]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com >>>> 3. [14]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> >>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA >>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes >>>> DeTomaso mailing list >>>> [15]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com >>>> [16]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >>>> >>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) >>>> use the links above. >>>> >>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any >>>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. >>>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or >>>> approve the archiving of list messages. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> >>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA >>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes >>> DeTomaso mailing list >>> [17]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com >>> [18]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >>> >>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use >>> the links above. >>> >>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any >>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. >>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or >>> approve the archiving of list messages. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA >> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes >> DeTomaso mailing list >> [19]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com >> [20]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >> >> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. >> >> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. 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References 1. mailto:erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com 2. javascript:; 3. javascript:; 4. javascript:; 5. javascript:; 6. javascript:; 7. javascript:; 8. javascript:; 9. javascript:; 10. javascript:; 11. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 12. javascript:; 13. javascript:; 14. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 15. javascript:; 16. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 17. javascript:; 18. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 19. javascript:; 20. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 21. javascript:; 22. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 23. javascript:; 24. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
From: Dave <[6]dave@damardirect.com> >>>> To: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <[7]detomasoregistry@gmail.com> >>>> Cc: DeTomaso List <[8]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 10:18 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum >>>> Thank you Chuck for letting me know what has transpired within the organization. Thank you Kurt for the resurrection. >>>> It is interesting that the new POCA website forum is far behind this >>>> forum as far as popularity. It is also worth noting that technology, >>>> the "better", new format of the POCA, is suffering a lack of >>>> attendance >>>> or participation, compared to this site. The phrase "build it & they >>>> will come running" certainly does not sound like it is happening. So >>>> why is the old guard allowing this to happen? It seems so flagrant. I >>>> think I read a sentiment that in essence said, if you don't like the >>>> new structure, you are not needed. This is a car group, how do you >>>> censor or better, why would you threaten anyone who disagrees with >>>> expulsion? >>>> Seems there is the dominate group forcing the subordinate group to leave, the very definition of expulsion. >>>> I agree Chuck, so very sad. I would think change is needed sooner than >>>> later. >>>> Dave >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: The DeTomaso Registry Guy [mailto:[1][9]detomasoregistry@gmail.com] >>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 2:27 PM >>>> To: Dave >>>> Cc: DeTomaso List >>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum >>>> Can someone enlighten me, please? >>>> I am/was under the impression this email list or forum was rescued >>>> from >>>> being dissolved by Kurt. (thank you Kurt) I was also under the >>>> impression this site was not part of or controlled by POCA.. >>>> Is this true? >>>> Thanks >>>> IndyDave >>>> Dave, >>>> You missed someone's good explanation of the list history.A It was >>>> started long ago, and when it was time for the guy to move on, he >>>> allowed POCA to 'manage' it under certain conditions. >>>> Then recently MS decided it should be killed, favoring the POCA >>>> Board-like forum. >>>> Kurt Byrnes (sp ?) took responsibility and restarted it. >>>> Now, the list is 'freed from POCA'...A THANKS Kurt! >>>> To use the POCA forum requires membership ($75 annually), it is >>>> censored for anti-POCA content, is no better than the GREAT (and free) >>>> PI Forum, actually much LESS than the PI Forum, and thus is not really >>>> used. >>>> And when newly-freed spirits discuss things 'here' some POCA people >>>> feel compelled to answer. >>>> Perhaps the POCA propaganda machine should re-evaluate their >>>> communications method. >>>> Or maybe Dave, you are adding your commentary too subtly for me (big >>>> grin). >>>> (Read between the lines ?!?A What lines ?!?A GRIN) >>>> Now... >>>> What caught my attention was a statement was made by the >>>> POCA-propaganda machine (PPM) regarding evaluation of alternate printers. >>>> How this was presented did seem reasonable (at first!). Yet Judy >>>> DeRyke >>>> (and/or others) commented on how the decision was actually made.A This >>>> was refuted by the PPM. So someone felt it necessary to post just how >>>> POCA makes its decisions (well how Michael Shortt makes decisions for >>>> ALL POCA members) using an actual e-mail message as the >>>> fact/source/evidence. What better way to form an opinion than with >>>> facts, right? >>>> The posting of the facts was made by a non-POCA officer. >>>> He was then threatened with censure and being kicked out of the club >>>> for posting the evidence.A WOW ! >>>> First, I do not believe the person posting the facts can or should be >>>> punished.A He did not sign a statement or agree to ANY terms that he >>>> is >>>> in violation of. Challenging a lie is the right thing to do. If Mr. >>>> Shortt wants to try to punish anyone, it should be himself for not >>>> conveying the truth in the first place. >>>> While I am not passing judgment on any one suggestion for improvement >>>> of POCA, I do object to HOW things are done, and HOW people are being >>>> treated. >>>> More specifically how people who are not in full agreement with the >>>> current POCA president are being treated.A Let everyone focus on that >>>>> one< issue.A Correct that problem first, otherwise it will taint any >>>> and all (otherwise possibly good) suggestions for change within POCA. >>>> With the leak of this document, POCA members and non-members alike >>>> have >>>> been given insight into just how POCA is currently being run.A How the >>>> PPM will respond will also be enlightening! >>>> Sad, quite sad. >>>> Here is an idea mentioned to me recently, perhaps if POCA wants to >>>> respond to statements, they could do so, but on their own website, and >>>> from their elected Public Relations guy (only), isn't that what the PR >>>> job entails? >>>> (Sorry to poke at Ed Mendez the current POCA PR guy, as he must have a >>>> REALLY tough job, being elected to be the official POCA voice, but >>>> having less-than-accurate statements made by the current POCA >>>> president >>>> as IF he is the sole POCA voice.) >>>> What a mess for the PR guy to be stuck with... >>>> Chuck >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA >>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes >>>> DeTomaso mailing list >>>> [2][10]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com >>>> [3][11]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) >>>> use the links above. >>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any >>>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the >>>> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive >>>> or approve the archiving of list messages. >>>> >>>> References >>>> >>>> 1. mailto:[12]detomasoregistry@gmail.com >>>> 2. mailto:[13]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com >>>> 3. [14]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> >>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA >>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes >>>> DeTomaso mailing list >>>> [15]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com >>>> [16]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >>>> >>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) >>>> use the links above. >>>> >>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any >>>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. >>>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> >>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA >>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes >>> DeTomaso mailing list >>> [17]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com >>> [18]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >>> >>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use >>> the links above. >>> >>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any >>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. >>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or >>> approve the archiving of list messages. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA >> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes >> DeTomaso mailing list >> [19]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com >> [20]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >> >> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. >> >> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to
On Jun 8, 2016, at 5:00 PM, Jack Donahue <[2][2]demongusta@gmail.com> wrote:
I have the dubious distinction of being the longest standing member in the Porsche Club of America, and the sole Charter member - 61 years - whew - that went fast. I must say the Pantera group is a lot more personable than the Porsche group. #4348
On Jun 8, 2016, at 4:00 PM, Will Kooiman <[3][3]will.kooiman@gmail.com> wrote:
The Porsche club has over 100,000 members.
The Ferrari club has over 6,000.
It isn't exactly an apples-to-apples comparison.
You need to consider what the reserves might be used for.A Personally, I think $100,00 sounds about right, but I would just be guessing.A I'd have to see a risk assessment to make an educated guess on an acceptable cash reserve.
-- Will
On 6/8/16 6:13 PM, "Ed Mendez" <[4][4]edducati@mac.com> wrote:
The Ferrari and Porsche clubs have over $1,000,000 in reserves. Their annual reports are available online. SCCA has more than that last time I checked.
Ed
Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
On 9/06/2016, at 05:51, Ken Green via DeTomaso <[5][5]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
You mean do something before someone burns though the cash reserve playing with their ideas of what a club should be.A I heard
cash reserve is over $100,000.A I don't know anything about
typical size of cash reserves for car clubs, but that seems like a lot? Ken A A __________________________________________________________________
From: Dave <[6][6]dave@damardirect.com> To: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <[7][7]detomasoregistry@gmail.com> Cc: DeTomaso List <[8][8]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 10:18 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Thank you Chuck for letting me know what has transpired within
organization. Thank you Kurt for the resurrection. It is interesting that the new POCA website forum is far behind
forum as far as popularity. It is also worth noting that technology, the "better", new format of the POCA, is suffering a lack of attendance or participation, compared to this site. The phrase "build it &
will come running" certainly does not sound like it is happening. So why is the old guard allowing this to happen? It seems so flagrant. I think I read a sentiment that in essence said, if you don't
new structure, you are not needed. This is a car group, how do you censor or better, why would you threaten anyone who disagrees with expulsion? Seems there is the dominate group forcing the subordinate group to leave, the very definition of expulsion. I agree Chuck, so very sad. I would think change is needed sooner than later. Dave -----Original Message----- From: The DeTomaso Registry Guy [[9]mailto:[1][9]detomasoregistry@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 2:27 PM To: Dave Cc: DeTomaso List Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Can someone enlighten me, please? I am/was under the impression this email list or forum was rescued from being dissolved by Kurt. (thank you Kurt) I was also under the impression this site was not part of or controlled by POCA.. Is this true? Thanks IndyDave Dave, You missed someone's good explanation of the list history.A It was started long ago, and when it was time for the guy to move on, he allowed POCA to 'manage' it under certain conditions. Then recently MS decided it should be killed, favoring the POCA Board-like forum. Kurt Byrnes (sp ?) took responsibility and restarted it. Now, the list is 'freed from POCA'...A THANKS Kurt! To use the POCA forum requires membership ($75 annually), it is censored for anti-POCA content, is no better than the GREAT (and free) PI Forum, actually much LESS than the PI Forum, and thus is not really used. And when newly-freed spirits discuss things 'here' some POCA
feel compelled to answer. Perhaps the POCA propaganda machine should re-evaluate their communications method. Or maybe Dave, you are adding your commentary too subtly for me (big grin). (Read between the lines ?!?A What lines ?!?A GRIN) Now... What caught my attention was a statement was made by the POCA-propaganda machine (PPM) regarding evaluation of alternate printers. How this was presented did seem reasonable (at first!). Yet Judy DeRyke (and/or others) commented on how the decision was actually made.A This was refuted by the PPM. So someone felt it necessary to post just how POCA makes its decisions (well how Michael Shortt makes decisions for ALL POCA members) using an actual e-mail message as the fact/source/evidence. What better way to form an opinion than with facts, right? The posting of the facts was made by a non-POCA officer. He was then threatened with censure and being kicked out of the club for posting the evidence.A WOW ! First, I do not believe the person posting the facts can or should be punished.A He did not sign a statement or agree to ANY terms
is in violation of. Challenging a lie is the right thing to do. If Mr. Shortt wants to try to punish anyone, it should be himself for not conveying the truth in the first place. While I am not passing judgment on any one suggestion for improvement of POCA, I do object to HOW things are done, and HOW people are being treated. More specifically how people who are not in full agreement with
current POCA president are being treated.A Let everyone focus on that
one< issue.A Correct that problem first, otherwise it will taint any and all (otherwise possibly good) suggestions for change within POCA. With the leak of this document, POCA members and non-members alike have been given insight into just how POCA is currently being run.A How the PPM will respond will also be enlightening! Sad, quite sad. Here is an idea mentioned to me recently, perhaps if POCA wants to respond to statements, they could do so, but on their own website, and from their elected Public Relations guy (only), isn't that what
job entails? (Sorry to poke at Ed Mendez the current POCA PR guy, as he must have a REALLY tough job, being elected to be the official POCA voice, but having less-than-accurate statements made by the current POCA president as IF he is the sole POCA voice.) What a mess for the PR guy to be stuck with... Chuck _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [2][10][10]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com
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References
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Surprisingly, the amount DONATED to the POCA General Fund by Kent & Sandi Snyder during 25 years of successful Fun Rallys (net profit) is close to that number. Bob Reid could tell us for sure- he was one of the 'gang of three' responsible for staging the events all those years. -----Original Message----- From: Robert Pink <robpink2012@gmail.com> To: Effie Richards <erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com> Cc: detomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Thu, Jun 9, 2016 6:08 am Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Probably good to remember that the only reason there is a reserve at all is because budget that was set up for a number of profiles editions was not spent - as the editions weren't completed. I think withoutA that "windfall " the club would be pretty much break even. On Wednesday, June 8, 2016, Effie Richards <[1]erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com> wrote: Congrats, indeed! Sent from Effie's iPad > On Jun 8, 2016, at 5:00 PM, Jack Donahue <[2]demongusta@gmail.com> wrote: > > I have the dubious distinction of being the longest standing member in the Porsche Club of America, and the sole Charter member - 61 years - whew - that went fast. I must say the Pantera group is a lot more personable than the Porsche group. > #4348 > >> On Jun 8, 2016, at 4:00 PM, Will Kooiman <[3]will.kooiman@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> The Porsche club has over 100,000 members. >> >> The Ferrari club has over 6,000. >> >> It isn't exactly an apples-to-apples comparison. >> >> You need to consider what the reserves might be used for.A Personally, I >> think $100,00 sounds about right, but I would just be guessing.A I'd have >> to see a risk assessment to make an educated guess on an acceptable cash >> reserve. >> >> -- >> Will >> >> >> >> >> >>> On 6/8/16 6:13 PM, "Ed Mendez" <[4]edducati@mac.com> wrote: >>> >>> The Ferrari and Porsche clubs have over $1,000,000 in reserves. Their >>> annual reports are available online. SCCA has more than that last time I >>> checked. >>> >>> Ed >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus >>> >>>> On 9/06/2016, at 05:51, Ken Green via DeTomaso >>>> <[5]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> You mean do something before someone burns though the cash reserve >>>> playing with their ideas of what a club should be.A I heard the POCA >>>> cash reserve is over $100,000.A I don't know anything about the >>>> typical >>>> size of cash reserves for car clubs, but that seems like a lot? >>>> Ken >>>>A A __________________________________________________________________ >>>> maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. > > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > [21]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > [22]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [23]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [24]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com 2. javascript:; 3. javascript:; 4. javascript:; 5. javascript:; 6. javascript:; 7. javascript:; 8. javascript:; 9. javascript:; 10. javascript:; 11. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 12. javascript:; 13. javascript:; 14. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 15. javascript:; 16. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 17. javascript:; 18. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 19. javascript:; 20. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 21. javascript:; 22. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 23. javascript:; 24. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Surprisingly, the amount DONATED to the POCA General Fund by Kent & Sandi Snyder during 25 years of successful Fun Rallys (net profit) is close to that number. Bob Reid could tell us for sure- he was one of the 'gang of three' responsible for staging the events all those years. -----Original Message----- From: Robert Pink <robpink2012@gmail.com> To: Effie Richards <erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com> Cc: detomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Thu, Jun 9, 2016 6:08 am Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Probably good to remember that the only reason there is a reserve at all is because budget that was set up for a number of profiles editions was not spent - as the editions weren't completed. I think withoutA that "windfall " the club would be pretty much break even. On Wednesday, June 8, 2016, Effie Richards <[1][1]erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com> wrote: Congrats, indeed! Sent from Effie's iPad the POCA the the this they like the people that he the the PR the the list. the list. maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
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I¹ve always thought that was fantastic. It¹s hard enough to organize an event, but to do it for 25 years, AND to donate all of the proceeds? That¹s pretty cool. On 6/10/16, 10:35 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Jack DeRyke via DeTomaso" <detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com on behalf of detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
Surprisingly, the amount DONATED to the POCA General Fund by Kent & Sandi Snyder during 25 years of successful Fun Rallys (net profit) is close to that number. Bob Reid could tell us for sure- he was one of the 'gang of three' responsible for staging the events all those years.
On Jun 8, 2016, at 5:00 PM, Jack Donahue <[2][2]demongusta@gmail.com> wrote:
I have the dubious distinction of being the longest standing member in the Porsche Club of America, and the sole Charter member - 61 years - whew - that went fast. I must say the Pantera group is a lot more personable than the Porsche group. #4348
On Jun 8, 2016, at 4:00 PM, Will Kooiman <[3][3]will.kooiman@gmail.com> wrote:
The Porsche club has over 100,000 members.
The Ferrari club has over 6,000.
It isn't exactly an apples-to-apples comparison.
You need to consider what the reserves might be used for.A Personally, I think $100,00 sounds about right, but I would just be guessing.A I'd have to see a risk assessment to make an educated guess on an acceptable cash reserve.
-- Will
On 6/8/16 6:13 PM, "Ed Mendez" <[4][4]edducati@mac.com> wrote:
The Ferrari and Porsche clubs have over $1,000,000 in reserves. Their annual reports are available online. SCCA has more than that last time I checked.
Ed
Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
On 9/06/2016, at 05:51, Ken Green via DeTomaso <[5][5]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
You mean do something before someone burns though the cash reserve playing with their ideas of what a club should be.A I heard
cash reserve is over $100,000.A I don't know anything about
typical size of cash reserves for car clubs, but that seems like a lot? Ken A A __________________________________________________________________
From: Dave <[6][6]dave@damardirect.com> To: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <[7][7]detomasoregistry@gmail.com> Cc: DeTomaso List <[8][8]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 10:18 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Thank you Chuck for letting me know what has transpired within
organization. Thank you Kurt for the resurrection. It is interesting that the new POCA website forum is far behind
forum as far as popularity. It is also worth noting that technology, the "better", new format of the POCA, is suffering a lack of attendance or participation, compared to this site. The phrase "build it &
will come running" certainly does not sound like it is happening. So why is the old guard allowing this to happen? It seems so flagrant. I think I read a sentiment that in essence said, if you don't
new structure, you are not needed. This is a car group, how do you censor or better, why would you threaten anyone who disagrees with expulsion? Seems there is the dominate group forcing the subordinate group to leave, the very definition of expulsion. I agree Chuck, so very sad. I would think change is needed sooner than later. Dave -----Original Message----- From: The DeTomaso Registry Guy [[9]mailto:[1][9]detomasoregistry@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 2:27 PM To: Dave Cc: DeTomaso List Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Can someone enlighten me, please? I am/was under the impression this email list or forum was rescued from being dissolved by Kurt. (thank you Kurt) I was also under the impression this site was not part of or controlled by POCA.. Is this true? Thanks IndyDave Dave, You missed someone's good explanation of the list history.A It was started long ago, and when it was time for the guy to move on, he allowed POCA to 'manage' it under certain conditions. Then recently MS decided it should be killed, favoring the POCA Board-like forum. Kurt Byrnes (sp ?) took responsibility and restarted it. Now, the list is 'freed from POCA'...A THANKS Kurt! To use the POCA forum requires membership ($75 annually), it is censored for anti-POCA content, is no better than the GREAT (and free) PI Forum, actually much LESS than the PI Forum, and thus is not really used. And when newly-freed spirits discuss things 'here' some POCA
feel compelled to answer. Perhaps the POCA propaganda machine should re-evaluate their communications method. Or maybe Dave, you are adding your commentary too subtly for me (big grin). (Read between the lines ?!?A What lines ?!?A GRIN) Now... What caught my attention was a statement was made by the POCA-propaganda machine (PPM) regarding evaluation of alternate printers. How this was presented did seem reasonable (at first!). Yet Judy DeRyke (and/or others) commented on how the decision was actually made.A This was refuted by the PPM. So someone felt it necessary to post just how POCA makes its decisions (well how Michael Shortt makes decisions for ALL POCA members) using an actual e-mail message as the fact/source/evidence. What better way to form an opinion than with facts, right? The posting of the facts was made by a non-POCA officer. He was then threatened with censure and being kicked out of the club for posting the evidence.A WOW ! First, I do not believe the person posting the facts can or should be punished.A He did not sign a statement or agree to ANY terms
is in violation of. Challenging a lie is the right thing to do. If Mr. Shortt wants to try to punish anyone, it should be himself for not conveying the truth in the first place. While I am not passing judgment on any one suggestion for improvement of POCA, I do object to HOW things are done, and HOW people are being treated. More specifically how people who are not in full agreement with
current POCA president are being treated.A Let everyone focus on that
one< issue.A Correct that problem first, otherwise it will taint any and all (otherwise possibly good) suggestions for change within POCA. With the leak of this document, POCA members and non-members alike have been given insight into just how POCA is currently being run.A How the PPM will respond will also be enlightening! Sad, quite sad. Here is an idea mentioned to me recently, perhaps if POCA wants to respond to statements, they could do so, but on their own website, and from their elected Public Relations guy (only), isn't that what
job entails? (Sorry to poke at Ed Mendez the current POCA PR guy, as he must have a REALLY tough job, being elected to be the official POCA voice, but having less-than-accurate statements made by the current POCA president as IF he is the sole POCA voice.) What a mess for the PR guy to be stuck with... Chuck _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [2][10][10]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com
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-----Original Message----- From: Robert Pink <robpink2012@gmail.com> To: Effie Richards <erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com> Cc: detomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Thu, Jun 9, 2016 6:08 am Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Probably good to remember that the only reason there is a reserve at all is because budget that was set up for a number of profiles editions was not spent - as the editions weren't completed. I think withoutA that "windfall " the club would be pretty much break even. On Wednesday, June 8, 2016, Effie Richards <[1][1]erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com> wrote: Congrats, indeed! Sent from Effie's iPad the POCA the the this they like the people that he the the PR the the list. the list. maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
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1. mailto:erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com 2. mailto:demongusta@gmail.com 3. mailto:will.kooiman@gmail.com 4. mailto:edducati@mac.com 5. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 6. mailto:dave@damardirect.com 7. mailto:detomasoregistry@gmail.com 8. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 9. mailto:[1][9]detomasoregistry@gmail.com? 10. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 11. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 12. mailto:[12]detomasoregistry@gmail.com? 13. mailto:[13]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 14. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 15. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 16. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 17. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 18. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 19. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 20. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 21. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 22. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 23. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 24. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 25. mailto:erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com? 26. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 27. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 28. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 29. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 30. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 31. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 32. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 33. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 34. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________
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Ed, Now put the $1,000,000 in proportion. Number of members / assets. That would be like comparing the NYC Athletic Club assets to the Tulsa Athletic Club. IndyDave -----Original Message----- From: Ed Mendez [mailto:edducati@mac.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 6:14 PM To: Ken Green Cc: Dave; The DeTomaso Registry Guy; DeTomaso List Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum The Ferrari and Porsche clubs have over $1,000,000 in reserves. Their annual reports are available online. SCCA has more than that last time I checked. Ed Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
On 9/06/2016, at 05:51, Ken Green via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
You mean do something before someone burns though the cash reserve playing with their ideas of what a club should be. I heard the POCA cash reserve is over $100,000. I don't know anything about the typical size of cash reserves for car clubs, but that seems like a lot? Ken __________________________________________________________________
From: Dave <dave@damardirect.com> To: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <detomasoregistry@gmail.com> Cc: DeTomaso List <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 10:18 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Thank you Chuck for letting me know what has transpired within the organization. Thank you Kurt for the resurrection. It is interesting that the new POCA website forum is far behind this forum as far as popularity. It is also worth noting that technology, the "better", new format of the POCA, is suffering a lack of attendance or participation, compared to this site. The phrase "build it & they will come running" certainly does not sound like it is happening. So why is the old guard allowing this to happen? It seems so flagrant. I think I read a sentiment that in essence said, if you don't like the new structure, you are not needed. This is a car group, how do you censor or better, why would you threaten anyone who disagrees with expulsion? Seems there is the dominate group forcing the subordinate group to leave, the very definition of expulsion. I agree Chuck, so very sad. I would think change is needed sooner than later. Dave -----Original Message----- From: The DeTomaso Registry Guy [mailto:[1]detomasoregistry@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 2:27 PM To: Dave Cc: DeTomaso List Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Can someone enlighten me, please? I am/was under the impression this email list or forum was rescued from being dissolved by Kurt. (thank you Kurt) I was also under the impression this site was not part of or controlled by POCA.. Is this true? Thanks IndyDave Dave, You missed someone's good explanation of the list history. It was started long ago, and when it was time for the guy to move on, he allowed POCA to 'manage' it under certain conditions. Then recently MS decided it should be killed, favoring the POCA Board-like forum. Kurt Byrnes (sp ?) took responsibility and restarted it. Now, the list is 'freed from POCA'... THANKS Kurt! To use the POCA forum requires membership ($75 annually), it is censored for anti-POCA content, is no better than the GREAT (and free) PI Forum, actually much LESS than the PI Forum, and thus is not really used. And when newly-freed spirits discuss things 'here' some POCA people feel compelled to answer. Perhaps the POCA propaganda machine should re-evaluate their communications method. Or maybe Dave, you are adding your commentary too subtly for me (big grin). (Read between the lines ?!? What lines ?!? GRIN) Now... What caught my attention was a statement was made by the POCA-propaganda machine (PPM) regarding evaluation of alternate printers. How this was presented did seem reasonable (at first!). Yet Judy DeRyke (and/or others) commented on how the decision was actually made. This was refuted by the PPM. So someone felt it necessary to post just how POCA makes its decisions (well how Michael Shortt makes decisions for ALL POCA members) using an actual e-mail message as the fact/source/evidence. What better way to form an opinion than with facts, right? The posting of the facts was made by a non-POCA officer. He was then threatened with censure and being kicked out of the club for posting the evidence. WOW ! First, I do not believe the person posting the facts can or should be punished. He did not sign a statement or agree to ANY terms that he is in violation of. Challenging a lie is the right thing to do. If Mr. Shortt wants to try to punish anyone, it should be himself for not conveying the truth in the first place. While I am not passing judgment on any one suggestion for improvement of POCA, I do object to HOW things are done, and HOW people are being treated. More specifically how people who are not in full agreement with the current POCA president are being treated. Let everyone focus on that
one< issue. Correct that problem first, otherwise it will taint any and all (otherwise possibly good) suggestions for change within POCA. With the leak of this document, POCA members and non-members alike have been given insight into just how POCA is currently being run. How the PPM will respond will also be enlightening! Sad, quite sad. Here is an idea mentioned to me recently, perhaps if POCA wants to respond to statements, they could do so, but on their own website, and from their elected Public Relations guy (only), isn't that what the PR job entails? (Sorry to poke at Ed Mendez the current POCA PR guy, as he must have a REALLY tough job, being elected to be the official POCA voice, but having less-than-accurate statements made by the current POCA president as IF he is the sole POCA voice.) What a mess for the PR guy to be stuck with... Chuck
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Someone out there really has some thin skin. Wouldn't make it in politics. On Monday, June 6, 2016 8:30 PM, Scott Couchman via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote: "You seem to be someone bound and determined to stir up trouble, up until now, I have tried to remain quiet, in your last diatribe, I think it was "until Michael Shortt stops messing with me" or something to that effect, you would stop having these fits of verbal and textual diarrhea. Frankly, I haven't given you another thought, you simply are not part of any equation on my worksheet. You simply are a waste of my time which could be better used for something to benefit the membership instead of dealing with what seems to be a clinically depressed, anti social personality type addicted to drama. That's changed, at the next BOD meeting I will be seeking to censure you as a member for violating our policies, for sharing BOD working emails and for not working within channels. I believe in an earlier email, Ed made the process very clear, go through your Chapter President or contact one of us directly, instead of posting your failures and inability to comprehend structure and civility. If you make another very poor decision to continue these actions, I will seek a second censure in 30 days and ask to remove you from this club. I am not the only one tried of your behavior, there are enough votes now in place to secure both outcomes. This is the last time that I will ask you to become a team player and use your energies to help make POCA a better club instead of trying to destroy it from within. Michael Shortt President POCA" Wow! Really? I thought this was a car club? On Jun 6, 2016, at 8:42 AM, Rod Kunishige <[1]rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote: Am I to be removed from the POCA? Rod __________________________________________________________________ From: [2]michaelsavga@gmail.com Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 09:34:45 -0400 Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum To: [3]rkunishige@hotmail.com CC: [4]jpoca2@hotmail.com; [5]JDeRyke@aol.com; [6]MBGlobalSc@aol.com; [7]jb841@cox.net; [8]RREIDCPA@aol.com; [9]paso750@gmail.com; [10]qrtlow@gmail.com; [11]edducati@mac.com Mr. Kunishige, It appears the theme of a nicer, more friendly, and organized POCA which operates through channels escapes you. It also appears a sitting BOD member is sharing BOD ONLY emails with you, that member should know that when I find them out, I will put forth a motion to censure them for violating BOD policy. Since you are not an elected member of the BOD, you are not entitled to our work emails, discussions or methodologies used to arrive at how we do business, once formatted, discussed amongst ourselves, these same issues are put forth in an agenda, discussed during an Open BOD meeting where all members can hear how we take care of business. I think with the exception of the last 3 minutes of the last BOD meeting, it was an excellent example of how civil discourse can happen even between people with disparate points of view. It is called a process, nothing happens by itself, I think the last 10 years of POCA pretty much proves that point. In regard to your past, an inability to maintain a job or to operate a business successfully relates to our situation how? While owning a toy store would be a dream for somebody like me, everybody knows that 4 out of 5 new businesses fail in the first year and of those, 4 out of 5 will never see a fifth year, so your chance of still operating a toy store for five years was only 10% at best. Here is why most new businesses fail. 1 Incompetence 46 % Emotional Pricing Living too high for the business Nonpayment of taxes No knowledge of pricing Lack of planning No knowledge of financing No experience in record-keeping 2 Unbalanced Experience or Lack of Managerial Experience 30 % Poor credit granting practices Expansion too rapid Inadequate borrowing practices 3 Lack of Experiences in line of goods or services 11 % Carry inadequate inventory No knowledge of suppliers Wasted advertising budget 5 Neglect, fraud, disaster 1 % Nobody judges you, we have all had failures, if you don't try, that's the biggest failure of all. You seem to be someone bound and determined to stir up trouble, up until now, I have tried to remain quiet, in your last diatribe, I think it was "until Michael Shortt stops messing with me" or something to that effect, you would stop having these fits of verbal and textual diarrhea. Frankly, I haven't given you another thought, you simply are not part of any equation on my worksheet. You simply are a waste of my time which could be better used for something to benefit the membership instead of dealing with what seems to be a clinically depressed, anti social personality type addicted to drama. That's changed, at the next BOD meeting I will be seeking to censure you as a member for violating our policies, for sharing BOD working emails and for not working within channels. I believe in an earlier email, Ed made the process very clear, go through your Chapter President or contact one of us directly, instead of posting your failures and inability to comprehend structure and civility. If you make another very poor decision to continue these actions, I will seek a second censure in 30 days and ask to remove you from this club. I am not the only one tried of your behavior, there are enough votes now in place to secure both outcomes. This is the last time that I will ask you to become a team player and use your energies to help make POCA a better club instead of trying to destroy it from within. Michael Shortt President POCA This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 6:22 AM, Ed Mendez <[12]edducati@mac.com> wrote: What part of "the email list should not be used to discuss POCA business", "bring your grievances to your chapter president", and "take it offline" did you not understand? By you copying members and non members of POCA on this email list with your grievances, and personal issues with Michael Shortt; you are placing the whole club in a negative light. This is adversely effecting the clubs ability to recruit new members. Copying the BOD. Kind regards, Ed > On 6/06/2016, at 10:11, Rod Kunishige <[13]rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Ed Menedez, > > You say that facts are clearly important to you. > > So, let me quote you some snippets taken directly from MS May 16, 2016 > email Subject: Newsletter and Profiles printing/design henceforth: > > O/ Meanwhile, as a part of this change will also come full color > printing on all pages in both the Newsletter / Profiles, a new printer, > and mailing partner. > > O/ The existing printer will not print anything else for POCA > after the June newsletter. > > O/ Your new printing partner is PrintingCenterUSA, > > O/ effective immediately we will begin to adopt layout > designs/templa tes which will dedicate 20% of the total space to > advertising content display. > the Newsletter needs to be 32 total pages each month, 5 pages in total > space needs to be evenly distributed in 1/8 page, 1/4, 1/3. & 1/2 page > horitzontal ads and 1/2 page vertical ads plus a full page ad. > > O/ You will need to coordinate with Ed with proofs so that he will > have the final say on ad placement before adthing is printed. > > O/ The vendor listings are to be removed. They will have to buy > ads to reach our memb ers. > > O/ We also need to use ONLY the newly revised/cleaned up POCA Road > Script and POCA crest. > > Completely detailed specifications are also set as fixed space > allocations for both pubs without consideration for content > adjustments. > > My view is that these are clearly directives not suggestions to > consider to fellow POCA Board Members. > > Ed, should you wish to challenge these facts, Ill be most pleased to > publish the email in its entirety so everyone may view it within its > full context. > NOTE: There seems to be a need to know the qualifications of the > writers who post here. So, let me explain that my career of 35 years > was in Information Technology ending as VP of IT. I also owned and > operated a mailing house directing publications in the SF Bay Area for > 4 years and owned and operated a 9,000 sq ft independent Toy Store for > 5 years. Hope this helps the readers who wish to know my background. I > LOVE this club and vendors. Its members have helped me throughout the > decades. > Rod > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > [14]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > [15]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. -- Michael L. Shortt Savannah, Georgia [16]www.michaelshortt.com [17]michael@michaelshortt.com 912-232-9390 This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you References 1. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 2. mailto:michaelsavga@gmail.com 3. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 4. mailto:jpoca2@hotmail.com 5. mailto:JDeRyke@aol.com 6. mailto:MBGlobalSc@aol.com 7. mailto:jb841@cox.net 8. mailto:RREIDCPA@aol.com 9. mailto:paso750@gmail.com 10. mailto:qrtlow@gmail.com 11. mailto:edducati@mac.com 12. mailto:edducati@mac.com 13. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 14. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 15. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 16. http://www.michaelshortt.com/ 17. mailto:michael@michaelshortt.com _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Someone out there really has some thin skin. Wouldn't make it in politics. On Monday, June 6, 2016 8:30 PM, Scott Couchman via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote: "You seem to be someone bound and determined to stir up trouble, up until now, I have tried to remain quiet, in your last diatribe, I think it was "until Michael Shortt stops messing with me" or something to that effect, you would stop having these fits of verbal and textual diarrhea. Frankly, I haven't given you another thought, you simply are not part of any equation on my worksheet. You simply are a waste of my time which could be better used for something to benefit the membership instead of dealing with what seems to be a clinically depressed, anti social personality type addicted to drama. That's changed, at the next BOD meeting I will be seeking to censure you as a member for violating our policies, for sharing BOD working emails and for not working within channels. I believe in an earlier email, Ed made the process very clear, go through your Chapter President or contact one of us directly, instead of posting your failures and inability to comprehend structure and civility. If you make another very poor decision to continue these actions, I will seek a second censure in 30 days and ask to remove you from this club. I am not the only one tried of your behavior, there are enough votes now in place to secure both outcomes. This is the last time that I will ask you to become a team player and use your energies to help make POCA a better club instead of trying to destroy it from within. Michael Shortt President POCA" Wow! Really? I thought this was a car club? On Jun 6, 2016, at 8:42 AM, Rod Kunishige <[1][1]rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote: Am I to be removed from the POCA? Rod __________________________________________________________________ From: [2][2]michaelsavga@gmail.com Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 09:34:45 -0400 Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum To: [3][3]rkunishige@hotmail.com CC: [4][4]jpoca2@hotmail.com; [5][5]JDeRyke@aol.com; [6][6]MBGlobalSc@aol.com; [7][7]jb841@cox.net; [8][8]RREIDCPA@aol.com; [9][9]paso750@gmail.com; [10][10]qrtlow@gmail.com; [11][11]edducati@mac.com Mr. Kunishige, It appears the theme of a nicer, more friendly, and organized POCA which operates through channels escapes you. It also appears a sitting BOD member is sharing BOD ONLY emails with you, that member should know that when I find them out, I will put forth a motion to censure them for violating BOD policy. Since you are not an elected member of the BOD, you are not entitled to our work emails, discussions or methodologies used to arrive at how we do business, once formatted, discussed amongst ourselves, these same issues are put forth in an agenda, discussed during an Open BOD meeting where all members can hear how we take care of business. I think with the exception of the last 3 minutes of the last BOD meeting, it was an excellent example of how civil discourse can happen even between people with disparate points of view. It is called a process, nothing happens by itself, I think the last 10 years of POCA pretty much proves that point. In regard to your past, an inability to maintain a job or to operate a business successfully relates to our situation how? While owning a toy store would be a dream for somebody like me, everybody knows that 4 out of 5 new businesses fail in the first year and of those, 4 out of 5 will never see a fifth year, so your chance of still operating a toy store for five years was only 10% at best. Here is why most new businesses fail. 1 Incompetence 46 % Emotional Pricing Living too high for the business Nonpayment of taxes No knowledge of pricing Lack of planning No knowledge of financing No experience in record-keeping 2 Unbalanced Experience or Lack of Managerial Experience 30 % Poor credit granting practices Expansion too rapid Inadequate borrowing practices 3 Lack of Experiences in line of goods or services 11 % Carry inadequate inventory No knowledge of suppliers Wasted advertising budget 5 Neglect, fraud, disaster 1 % Nobody judges you, we have all had failures, if you don't try, that's the biggest failure of all. You seem to be someone bound and determined to stir up trouble, up until now, I have tried to remain quiet, in your last diatribe, I think it was "until Michael Shortt stops messing with me" or something to that effect, you would stop having these fits of verbal and textual diarrhea. Frankly, I haven't given you another thought, you simply are not part of any equation on my worksheet. You simply are a waste of my time which could be better used for something to benefit the membership instead of dealing with what seems to be a clinically depressed, anti social personality type addicted to drama. That's changed, at the next BOD meeting I will be seeking to censure you as a member for violating our policies, for sharing BOD working emails and for not working within channels. I believe in an earlier email, Ed made the process very clear, go through your Chapter President or contact one of us directly, instead of posting your failures and inability to comprehend structure and civility. If you make another very poor decision to continue these actions, I will seek a second censure in 30 days and ask to remove you from this club. I am not the only one tried of your behavior, there are enough votes now in place to secure both outcomes. This is the last time that I will ask you to become a team player and use your energies to help make POCA a better club instead of trying to destroy it from within. Michael Shortt President POCA This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 6:22 AM, Ed Mendez <[12][12]edducati@mac.com> wrote: What part of "the email list should not be used to discuss POCA business", "bring your grievances to your chapter president", and "take it offline" did you not understand? By you copying members and non members of POCA on this email list with your grievances, and personal issues with Michael Shortt; you are placing the whole club in a negative light. This is adversely effecting the clubs ability to recruit new members. Copying the BOD. Kind regards, Ed > On 6/06/2016, at 10:11, Rod Kunishige <[13][13]rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Ed Menedez, > > You say that facts are clearly important to you. > > So, let me quote you some snippets taken directly from MS May 16, 2016 > email Subject: Newsletter and Profiles printing/design henceforth: > > O/ Meanwhile, as a part of this change will also come full color > printing on all pages in both the Newsletter / Profiles, a new printer, > and mailing partner. > > O/ The existing printer will not print anything else for POCA > after the June newsletter. > > O/ Your new printing partner is PrintingCenterUSA, > > O/ effective immediately we will begin to adopt layout > designs/templa tes which will dedicate 20% of the total space to > advertising content display. > the Newsletter needs to be 32 total pages each month, 5 pages in total > space needs to be evenly distributed in 1/8 page, 1/4, 1/3. & 1/2 page > horitzontal ads and 1/2 page vertical ads plus a full page ad. > > O/ You will need to coordinate with Ed with proofs so that he will > have the final say on ad placement before adthing is printed. > > O/ The vendor listings are to be removed. They will have to buy > ads to reach our memb ers. > > O/ We also need to use ONLY the newly revised/cleaned up POCA Road > Script and POCA crest. > > Completely detailed specifications are also set as fixed space > allocations for both pubs without consideration for content > adjustments. > > My view is that these are clearly directives not suggestions to > consider to fellow POCA Board Members. > > Ed, should you wish to challenge these facts, Ill be most pleased to > publish the email in its entirety so everyone may view it within its > full context. > NOTE: There seems to be a need to know the qualifications of the > writers who post here. So, let me explain that my career of 35 years > was in Information Technology ending as VP of IT. I also owned and > operated a mailing house directing publications in the SF Bay Area for > 4 years and owned and operated a 9,000 sq ft independent Toy Store for > 5 years. Hope this helps the readers who wish to know my background. I > LOVE this club and vendors. Its members have helped me throughout the > decades. > Rod > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > [14][14]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > [15][15]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. -- Michael L. Shortt Savannah, Georgia [16]www.michaelshortt.com [17][16]michael@michaelshortt.com 912-232-9390 This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you References 1. mailto:[17]rkunishige@hotmail.com 2. mailto:[18]michaelsavga@gmail.com 3. mailto:[19]rkunishige@hotmail.com 4. mailto:[20]jpoca2@hotmail.com 5. mailto:[21]JDeRyke@aol.com 6. mailto:[22]MBGlobalSc@aol.com 7. mailto:[23]jb841@cox.net 8. mailto:[24]RREIDCPA@aol.com 9. mailto:[25]paso750@gmail.com 10. mailto:[26]qrtlow@gmail.com 11. mailto:[27]edducati@mac.com 12. mailto:[28]edducati@mac.com 13. mailto:[29]rkunishige@hotmail.com 14. mailto:[30]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 15. [31]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 16. [32]http://www.michaelshortt.com/ 17. mailto:[33]michael@michaelshortt.com _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [34]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [35]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 2. mailto:michaelsavga@gmail.com 3. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 4. mailto:jpoca2@hotmail.com 5. mailto:JDeRyke@aol.com 6. mailto:MBGlobalSc@aol.com 7. mailto:jb841@cox.net 8. mailto:RREIDCPA@aol.com 9. mailto:paso750@gmail.com 10. mailto:qrtlow@gmail.com 11. mailto:edducati@mac.com 12. mailto:edducati@mac.com 13. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 14. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 15. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 16. mailto:michael@michaelshortt.com 17. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 18. mailto:michaelsavga@gmail.com 19. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 20. mailto:jpoca2@hotmail.com 21. mailto:JDeRyke@aol.com 22. mailto:MBGlobalSc@aol.com 23. mailto:jb841@cox.net 24. mailto:RREIDCPA@aol.com 25. mailto:paso750@gmail.com 26. mailto:qrtlow@gmail.com 27. mailto:edducati@mac.com 28. mailto:edducati@mac.com 29. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 30. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 31. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 32. http://www.michaelshortt.com/ 33. mailto:michael@michaelshortt.com 34. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 35. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
Scott, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you really don't know Rod. I think Rod has always been a positive influence on the group in general, and every experience I have had with him has been positive. Rod has contributed as much or more to the community than anyone I know. If you every need a goodwill ambassador for the Pantera community, I think Rod would be high on the list. Ken From: Scott Couchman via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To: Rod Kunishige <rkunishige@hotmail.com> Cc: "<detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Monday, June 6, 2016 5:30 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum "You seem to be someone bound and determined to stir up trouble, up until now, I have tried to remain quiet, in your last diatribe, I think it was "until Michael Shortt stops messing with me" or something to that effect, you would stop having these fits of verbal and textual diarrhea. Frankly, I haven't given you another thought, you simply are not part of any equation on my worksheet. You simply are a waste of my time which could be better used for something to benefit the membership instead of dealing with what seems to be a clinically depressed, anti social personality type addicted to drama. That's changed, at the next BOD meeting I will be seeking to censure you as a member for violating our policies, for sharing BOD working emails and for not working within channels. I believe in an earlier email, Ed made the process very clear, go through your Chapter President or contact one of us directly, instead of posting your failures and inability to comprehend structure and civility. If you make another very poor decision to continue these actions, I will seek a second censure in 30 days and ask to remove you from this club. I am not the only one tried of your behavior, there are enough votes now in place to secure both outcomes. This is the last time that I will ask you to become a team player and use your energies to help make POCA a better club instead of trying to destroy it from within. Michael Shortt President POCA" Wow! Really? I thought this was a car club? On Jun 6, 2016, at 8:42 AM, Rod Kunishige <[1]rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote: Am I to be removed from the POCA? Rod __________________________________________________________________ From: [2]michaelsavga@gmail.com Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 09:34:45 -0400 Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum To: [3]rkunishige@hotmail.com CC: [4]jpoca2@hotmail.com; [5]JDeRyke@aol.com; [6]MBGlobalSc@aol.com; [7]jb841@cox.net; [8]RREIDCPA@aol.com; [9]paso750@gmail.com; [10]qrtlow@gmail.com; [11]edducati@mac.com Mr. Kunishige, It appears the theme of a nicer, more friendly, and organized POCA which operates through channels escapes you. It also appears a sitting BOD member is sharing BOD ONLY emails with you, that member should know that when I find them out, I will put forth a motion to censure them for violating BOD policy. Since you are not an elected member of the BOD, you are not entitled to our work emails, discussions or methodologies used to arrive at how we do business, once formatted, discussed amongst ourselves, these same issues are put forth in an agenda, discussed during an Open BOD meeting where all members can hear how we take care of business. I think with the exception of the last 3 minutes of the last BOD meeting, it was an excellent example of how civil discourse can happen even between people with disparate points of view. It is called a process, nothing happens by itself, I think the last 10 years of POCA pretty much proves that point. In regard to your past, an inability to maintain a job or to operate a business successfully relates to our situation how? While owning a toy store would be a dream for somebody like me, everybody knows that 4 out of 5 new businesses fail in the first year and of those, 4 out of 5 will never see a fifth year, so your chance of still operating a toy store for five years was only 10% at best. Here is why most new businesses fail. 1 Incompetence 46 % Emotional Pricing Living too high for the business Nonpayment of taxes No knowledge of pricing Lack of planning No knowledge of financing No experience in record-keeping 2 Unbalanced Experience or Lack of Managerial Experience 30 % Poor credit granting practices Expansion too rapid Inadequate borrowing practices 3 Lack of Experiences in line of goods or services 11 % Carry inadequate inventory No knowledge of suppliers Wasted advertising budget 5 Neglect, fraud, disaster 1 % Nobody judges you, we have all had failures, if you don't try, that's the biggest failure of all. You seem to be someone bound and determined to stir up trouble, up until now, I have tried to remain quiet, in your last diatribe, I think it was "until Michael Shortt stops messing with me" or something to that effect, you would stop having these fits of verbal and textual diarrhea. Frankly, I haven't given you another thought, you simply are not part of any equation on my worksheet. You simply are a waste of my time which could be better used for something to benefit the membership instead of dealing with what seems to be a clinically depressed, anti social personality type addicted to drama. That's changed, at the next BOD meeting I will be seeking to censure you as a member for violating our policies, for sharing BOD working emails and for not working within channels. I believe in an earlier email, Ed made the process very clear, go through your Chapter President or contact one of us directly, instead of posting your failures and inability to comprehend structure and civility. If you make another very poor decision to continue these actions, I will seek a second censure in 30 days and ask to remove you from this club. I am not the only one tried of your behavior, there are enough votes now in place to secure both outcomes. This is the last time that I will ask you to become a team player and use your energies to help make POCA a better club instead of trying to destroy it from within. Michael Shortt President POCA This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 6:22 AM, Ed Mendez <[12]edducati@mac.com> wrote: What part of "the email list should not be used to discuss POCA business", "bring your grievances to your chapter president", and "take it offline" did you not understand? By you copying members and non members of POCA on this email list with your grievances, and personal issues with Michael Shortt; you are placing the whole club in a negative light. This is adversely effecting the clubs ability to recruit new members. Copying the BOD. Kind regards, Ed > On 6/06/2016, at 10:11, Rod Kunishige <[13]rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Ed Menedez, > > You say that facts are clearly important to you. > > So, let me quote you some snippets taken directly from MS May 16, 2016 > email Subject: Newsletter and Profiles printing/design henceforth: > > O/ Meanwhile, as a part of this change will also come full color > printing on all pages in both the Newsletter / Profiles, a new printer, > and mailing partner. > > O/ The existing printer will not print anything else for POCA > after the June newsletter. > > O/ Your new printing partner is PrintingCenterUSA, > > O/ effective immediately we will begin to adopt layout > designs/templa tes which will dedicate 20% of the total space to > advertising content display. > the Newsletter needs to be 32 total pages each month, 5 pages in total > space needs to be evenly distributed in 1/8 page, 1/4, 1/3. & 1/2 page > horitzontal ads and 1/2 page vertical ads plus a full page ad. > > O/ You will need to coordinate with Ed with proofs so that he will > have the final say on ad placement before adthing is printed. > > O/ The vendor listings are to be removed. They will have to buy > ads to reach our memb ers. > > O/ We also need to use ONLY the newly revised/cleaned up POCA Road > Script and POCA crest. > > Completely detailed specifications are also set as fixed space > allocations for both pubs without consideration for content > adjustments. > > My view is that these are clearly directives not suggestions to > consider to fellow POCA Board Members. > > Ed, should you wish to challenge these facts, Ill be most pleased to > publish the email in its entirety so everyone may view it within its > full context. > NOTE: There seems to be a need to know the qualifications of the > writers who post here. So, let me explain that my career of 35 years > was in Information Technology ending as VP of IT. I also owned and > operated a mailing house directing publications in the SF Bay Area for > 4 years and owned and operated a 9,000 sq ft independent Toy Store for > 5 years. Hope this helps the readers who wish to know my background. I > LOVE this club and vendors. Its members have helped me throughout the > decades. > Rod > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > [14]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > [15]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. -- Michael L. Shortt Savannah, Georgia [16]www.michaelshortt.com [17]michael@michaelshortt.com 912-232-9390 This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you References 1. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 2. mailto:michaelsavga@gmail.com 3. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 4. mailto:jpoca2@hotmail.com 5. mailto:JDeRyke@aol.com 6. mailto:MBGlobalSc@aol.com 7. mailto:jb841@cox.net 8. mailto:RREIDCPA@aol.com 9. mailto:paso750@gmail.com 10. mailto:qrtlow@gmail.com 11. mailto:edducati@mac.com 12. mailto:edducati@mac.com 13. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 14. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 15. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 16. http://www.michaelshortt.com/ 17. mailto:michael@michaelshortt.com _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Scott, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you really don't know Rod. I think Rod has always been a positive influence on the group in general, and every experience I have had with him has been positive. Rod has contributed as much or more to the community than anyone I know. If you every need a goodwill ambassador for the Pantera community, I think Rod would be high on the list. Ken __________________________________________________________________ From: Scott Couchman via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To: Rod Kunishige <rkunishige@hotmail.com> Cc: "<detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Monday, June 6, 2016 5:30 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum "You seem to be someone bound and determined to stir up trouble, up until now, I have tried to remain quiet, in your last diatribe, I think it was "until Michael Shortt stops messing with me" or something to that effect, you would stop having these fits of verbal and textual diarrhea. Frankly, I haven't given you another thought, you simply are not part of any equation on my worksheet. You simply are a waste of my time which could be better used for something to benefit the membership instead of dealing with what seems to be a clinically depressed, anti social personality type addicted to drama. That's changed, at the next BOD meeting I will be seeking to censure you as a member for violating our policies, for sharing BOD working emails and for not working within channels. I believe in an earlier email, Ed made the process very clear, go through your Chapter President or contact one of us directly, instead of posting your failures and inability to comprehend structure and civility. If you make another very poor decision to continue these actions, I will seek a second censure in 30 days and ask to remove you from this club. I am not the only one tried of your behavior, there are enough votes now in place to secure both outcomes. This is the last time that I will ask you to become a team player and use your energies to help make POCA a better club instead of trying to destroy it from within. Michael Shortt President POCA" Wow! Really? I thought this was a car club? On Jun 6, 2016, at 8:42 AM, Rod Kunishige <[1][1]rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote: Am I to be removed from the POCA? Rod __________________________________________________________________ From: [2][2]michaelsavga@gmail.com Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 09:34:45 -0400 Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum To: [3][3]rkunishige@hotmail.com CC: [4][4]jpoca2@hotmail.com; [5][5]JDeRyke@aol.com; [6][6]MBGlobalSc@aol.com; [7][7]jb841@cox.net; [8][8]RREIDCPA@aol.com; [9][9]paso750@gmail.com; [10][10]qrtlow@gmail.com; [11][11]edducati@mac.com Mr. Kunishige, It appears the theme of a nicer, more friendly, and organized POCA which operates through channels escapes you. It also appears a sitting BOD member is sharing BOD ONLY emails with you, that member should know that when I find them out, I will put forth a motion to censure them for violating BOD policy. Since you are not an elected member of the BOD, you are not entitled to our work emails, discussions or methodologies used to arrive at how we do business, once formatted, discussed amongst ourselves, these same issues are put forth in an agenda, discussed during an Open BOD meeting where all members can hear how we take care of business. I think with the exception of the last 3 minutes of the last BOD meeting, it was an excellent example of how civil discourse can happen even between people with disparate points of view. It is called a process, nothing happens by itself, I think the last 10 years of POCA pretty much proves that point. In regard to your past, an inability to maintain a job or to operate a business successfully relates to our situation how? While owning a toy store would be a dream for somebody like me, everybody knows that 4 out of 5 new businesses fail in the first year and of those, 4 out of 5 will never see a fifth year, so your chance of still operating a toy store for five years was only 10% at best. Here is why most new businesses fail. 1 Incompetence 46 % Emotional Pricing Living too high for the business Nonpayment of taxes No knowledge of pricing Lack of planning No knowledge of financing No experience in record-keeping 2 Unbalanced Experience or Lack of Managerial Experience 30 % Poor credit granting practices Expansion too rapid Inadequate borrowing practices 3 Lack of Experiences in line of goods or services 11 % Carry inadequate inventory No knowledge of suppliers Wasted advertising budget 5 Neglect, fraud, disaster 1 % Nobody judges you, we have all had failures, if you don't try, that's the biggest failure of all. You seem to be someone bound and determined to stir up trouble, up until now, I have tried to remain quiet, in your last diatribe, I think it was "until Michael Shortt stops messing with me" or something to that effect, you would stop having these fits of verbal and textual diarrhea. Frankly, I haven't given you another thought, you simply are not part of any equation on my worksheet. You simply are a waste of my time which could be better used for something to benefit the membership instead of dealing with what seems to be a clinically depressed, anti social personality type addicted to drama. That's changed, at the next BOD meeting I will be seeking to censure you as a member for violating our policies, for sharing BOD working emails and for not working within channels. I believe in an earlier email, Ed made the process very clear, go through your Chapter President or contact one of us directly, instead of posting your failures and inability to comprehend structure and civility. If you make another very poor decision to continue these actions, I will seek a second censure in 30 days and ask to remove you from this club. I am not the only one tried of your behavior, there are enough votes now in place to secure both outcomes. This is the last time that I will ask you to become a team player and use your energies to help make POCA a better club instead of trying to destroy it from within. Michael Shortt President POCA This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 6:22 AM, Ed Mendez <[12][12]edducati@mac.com> wrote: What part of "the email list should not be used to discuss POCA business", "bring your grievances to your chapter president", and "take it offline" did you not understand? By you copying members and non members of POCA on this email list with your grievances, and personal issues with Michael Shortt; you are placing the whole club in a negative light. This is adversely effecting the clubs ability to recruit new members. Copying the BOD. Kind regards, Ed > On 6/06/2016, at 10:11, Rod Kunishige <[13][13]rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Ed Menedez, > > You say that facts are clearly important to you. > > So, let me quote you some snippets taken directly from MS May 16, 2016 > email Subject: Newsletter and Profiles printing/design henceforth: > > O/ Meanwhile, as a part of this change will also come full color > printing on all pages in both the Newsletter / Profiles, a new printer, > and mailing partner. > > O/ The existing printer will not print anything else for POCA > after the June newsletter. > > O/ Your new printing partner is PrintingCenterUSA, > > O/ effective immediately we will begin to adopt layout > designs/templa tes which will dedicate 20% of the total space to > advertising content display. > the Newsletter needs to be 32 total pages each month, 5 pages in total > space needs to be evenly distributed in 1/8 page, 1/4, 1/3. & 1/2 page > horitzontal ads and 1/2 page vertical ads plus a full page ad. > > O/ You will need to coordinate with Ed with proofs so that he will > have the final say on ad placement before adthing is printed. > > O/ The vendor listings are to be removed. They will have to buy > ads to reach our memb ers. > > O/ We also need to use ONLY the newly revised/cleaned up POCA Road > Script and POCA crest. > > Completely detailed specifications are also set as fixed space > allocations for both pubs without consideration for content > adjustments. > > My view is that these are clearly directives not suggestions to > consider to fellow POCA Board Members. > > Ed, should you wish to challenge these facts, Ill be most pleased to > publish the email in its entirety so everyone may view it within its > full context. > NOTE: There seems to be a need to know the qualifications of the > writers who post here. So, let me explain that my career of 35 years > was in Information Technology ending as VP of IT. I also owned and > operated a mailing house directing publications in the SF Bay Area for > 4 years and owned and operated a 9,000 sq ft independent Toy Store for > 5 years. Hope this helps the readers who wish to know my background. I > LOVE this club and vendors. Its members have helped me throughout the > decades. > Rod > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > [14][14]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > [15][15]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. -- Michael L. Shortt Savannah, Georgia [16]www.michaelshortt.com [17][16]michael@michaelshortt.com 912-232-9390 This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you References 1. mailto:[17]rkunishige@hotmail.com 2. mailto:[18]michaelsavga@gmail.com 3. mailto:[19]rkunishige@hotmail.com 4. mailto:[20]jpoca2@hotmail.com 5. mailto:[21]JDeRyke@aol.com 6. mailto:[22]MBGlobalSc@aol.com 7. mailto:[23]jb841@cox.net 8. mailto:[24]RREIDCPA@aol.com 9. mailto:[25]paso750@gmail.com 10. mailto:[26]qrtlow@gmail.com 11. mailto:[27]edducati@mac.com 12. mailto:[28]edducati@mac.com 13. mailto:[29]rkunishige@hotmail.com 14. mailto:[30]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 15. [31]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 16. [32]http://www.michaelshortt.com/ 17. mailto:[33]michael@michaelshortt.com _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [34]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [35]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 2. mailto:michaelsavga@gmail.com 3. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 4. mailto:jpoca2@hotmail.com 5. mailto:JDeRyke@aol.com 6. mailto:MBGlobalSc@aol.com 7. mailto:jb841@cox.net 8. mailto:RREIDCPA@aol.com 9. mailto:paso750@gmail.com 10. mailto:qrtlow@gmail.com 11. mailto:edducati@mac.com 12. mailto:edducati@mac.com 13. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 14. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 15. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 16. mailto:michael@michaelshortt.com 17. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 18. mailto:michaelsavga@gmail.com 19. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 20. mailto:jpoca2@hotmail.com 21. mailto:JDeRyke@aol.com 22. mailto:MBGlobalSc@aol.com 23. mailto:jb841@cox.net 24. mailto:RREIDCPA@aol.com 25. mailto:paso750@gmail.com 26. mailto:qrtlow@gmail.com 27. mailto:edducati@mac.com 28. mailto:edducati@mac.com 29. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 30. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 31. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 32. http://www.michaelshortt.com/ 33. mailto:michael@michaelshortt.com 34. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 35. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
Ken, It appeared as if the post was written by Scott but if you read to the end you will see that this was written by POCA President Michael Shortt. I've met Scott and I don't believe he could ever have written something as hateful as this. I have been hoping that Mr. Shortt had mellowed out but apparently not. Forest From: Ken Green via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To: "scottcouchman@yahoo.com" <scottcouchman@yahoo.com>; Rod Kunishige <rkunishige@hotmail.com> Cc: "<detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Monday, June 6, 2016 8:21 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Scott, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you really don't know Rod. I think Rod has always been a positive influence on the group in general, and every experience I have had with him has been positive. Rod has contributed as much or more to the community than anyone I know. If you every need a goodwill ambassador for the Pantera community, I think Rod would be high on the list. Ken __________________________________________________________________ From: Scott Couchman via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To: Rod Kunishige <rkunishige@hotmail.com> Cc: "<detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Monday, June 6, 2016 5:30 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum "You seem to be someone bound and determined to stir up trouble, up until now, I have tried to remain quiet, in your last diatribe, I think it was "until Michael Shortt stops messing with me" or something to that effect, you would stop having these fits of verbal and textual diarrhea. Frankly, I haven't given you another thought, you simply are not part of any equation on my worksheet. You simply are a waste of my time which could be better used for something to benefit the membership instead of dealing with what seems to be a clinically depressed, anti social personality type addicted to drama. That's changed, at the next BOD meeting I will be seeking to censure you as a member for violating our policies, for sharing BOD working emails and for not working within channels. I believe in an earlier email, Ed made the process very clear, go through your Chapter President or contact one of us directly, instead of posting your failures and inability to comprehend structure and civility. If you make another very poor decision to continue these actions, I will seek a second censure in 30 days and ask to remove you from this club. I am not the only one tried of your behavior, there are enough votes now in place to secure both outcomes. This is the last time that I will ask you to become a team player and use your energies to help make POCA a better club instead of trying to destroy it from within. Michael Shortt President POCA" Wow! Really? I thought this was a car club? On Jun 6, 2016, at 8:42 AM, Rod Kunishige <[1][1]rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote: Am I to be removed from the POCA? Rod __________________________________________________________________ From: [2][2]michaelsavga@gmail.com Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 09:34:45 -0400 Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum To: [3][3]rkunishige@hotmail.com CC: [4][4]jpoca2@hotmail.com; [5][5]JDeRyke@aol.com; [6][6]MBGlobalSc@aol.com; [7][7]jb841@cox.net; [8][8]RREIDCPA@aol.com; [9][9]paso750@gmail.com; [10][10]qrtlow@gmail.com; [11][11]edducati@mac.com Mr. Kunishige, It appears the theme of a nicer, more friendly, and organized POCA which operates through channels escapes you. It also appears a sitting BOD member is sharing BOD ONLY emails with you, that member should know that when I find them out, I will put forth a motion to censure them for violating BOD policy. Since you are not an elected member of the BOD, you are not entitled to our work emails, discussions or methodologies used to arrive at how we do business, once formatted, discussed amongst ourselves, these same issues are put forth in an agenda, discussed during an Open BOD meeting where all members can hear how we take care of business. I think with the exception of the last 3 minutes of the last BOD meeting, it was an excellent example of how civil discourse can happen even between people with disparate points of view. It is called a process, nothing happens by itself, I think the last 10 years of POCA pretty much proves that point. In regard to your past, an inability to maintain a job or to operate a business successfully relates to our situation how? While owning a toy store would be a dream for somebody like me, everybody knows that 4 out of 5 new businesses fail in the first year and of those, 4 out of 5 will never see a fifth year, so your chance of still operating a toy store for five years was only 10% at best. Here is why most new businesses fail. 1 Incompetence 46 % Emotional Pricing Living too high for the business Nonpayment of taxes No knowledge of pricing Lack of planning No knowledge of financing No experience in record-keeping 2 Unbalanced Experience or Lack of Managerial Experience 30 % Poor credit granting practices Expansion too rapid Inadequate borrowing practices 3 Lack of Experiences in line of goods or services 11 % Carry inadequate inventory No knowledge of suppliers Wasted advertising budget 5 Neglect, fraud, disaster 1 % Nobody judges you, we have all had failures, if you don't try, that's the biggest failure of all. You seem to be someone bound and determined to stir up trouble, up until now, I have tried to remain quiet, in your last diatribe, I think it was "until Michael Shortt stops messing with me" or something to that effect, you would stop having these fits of verbal and textual diarrhea. Frankly, I haven't given you another thought, you simply are not part of any equation on my worksheet. You simply are a waste of my time which could be better used for something to benefit the membership instead of dealing with what seems to be a clinically depressed, anti social personality type addicted to drama. That's changed, at the next BOD meeting I will be seeking to censure you as a member for violating our policies, for sharing BOD working emails and for not working within channels. I believe in an earlier email, Ed made the process very clear, go through your Chapter President or contact one of us directly, instead of posting your failures and inability to comprehend structure and civility. If you make another very poor decision to continue these actions, I will seek a second censure in 30 days and ask to remove you from this club. I am not the only one tried of your behavior, there are enough votes now in place to secure both outcomes. This is the last time that I will ask you to become a team player and use your energies to help make POCA a better club instead of trying to destroy it from within. Michael Shortt President POCA This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 6:22 AM, Ed Mendez <[12][12]edducati@mac.com> wrote: What part of "the email list should not be used to discuss POCA business", "bring your grievances to your chapter president", and "take it offline" did you not understand? By you copying members and non members of POCA on this email list with your grievances, and personal issues with Michael Shortt; you are placing the whole club in a negative light. This is adversely effecting the clubs ability to recruit new members. Copying the BOD. Kind regards, Ed > On 6/06/2016, at 10:11, Rod Kunishige <[13][13]rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Ed Menedez, > > You say that facts are clearly important to you. > > So, let me quote you some snippets taken directly from MS May 16, 2016 > email Subject: Newsletter and Profiles printing/design henceforth: > > O/ Meanwhile, as a part of this change will also come full color > printing on all pages in both the Newsletter / Profiles, a new printer, > and mailing partner. > > O/ The existing printer will not print anything else for POCA > after the June newsletter. > > O/ Your new printing partner is PrintingCenterUSA, > > O/ effective immediately we will begin to adopt layout > designs/templa tes which will dedicate 20% of the total space to > advertising content display. > the Newsletter needs to be 32 total pages each month, 5 pages in total > space needs to be evenly distributed in 1/8 page, 1/4, 1/3. & 1/2 page > horitzontal ads and 1/2 page vertical ads plus a full page ad. > > O/ You will need to coordinate with Ed with proofs so that he will > have the final say on ad placement before adthing is printed. > > O/ The vendor listings are to be removed. They will have to buy > ads to reach our memb ers. > > O/ We also need to use ONLY the newly revised/cleaned up POCA Road > Script and POCA crest. > > Completely detailed specifications are also set as fixed space > allocations for both pubs without consideration for content > adjustments. > > My view is that these are clearly directives not suggestions to > consider to fellow POCA Board Members. > > Ed, should you wish to challenge these facts, Ill be most pleased to > publish the email in its entirety so everyone may view it within its > full context. > NOTE: There seems to be a need to know the qualifications of the > writers who post here. So, let me explain that my career of 35 years > was in Information Technology ending as VP of IT. I also owned and > operated a mailing house directing publications in the SF Bay Area for > 4 years and owned and operated a 9,000 sq ft independent Toy Store for > 5 years. Hope this helps the readers who wish to know my background. I > LOVE this club and vendors. Its members have helped me throughout the > decades. > Rod > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > [14][14]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > [15][15]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. -- Michael L. Shortt Savannah, Georgia [16]www.michaelshortt.com [17][16]michael@michaelshortt.com 912-232-9390 This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you References 1. mailto:[17]rkunishige@hotmail.com 2. mailto:[18]michaelsavga@gmail.com 3. mailto:[19]rkunishige@hotmail.com 4. mailto:[20]jpoca2@hotmail.com 5. mailto:[21]JDeRyke@aol.com 6. mailto:[22]MBGlobalSc@aol.com 7. mailto:[23]jb841@cox.net 8. mailto:[24]RREIDCPA@aol.com 9. mailto:[25]paso750@gmail.com 10. mailto:[26]qrtlow@gmail.com 11. mailto:[27]edducati@mac.com 12. mailto:[28]edducati@mac.com 13. mailto:[29]rkunishige@hotmail.com 14. mailto:[30]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 15. [31]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 16. [32]http://www.michaelshortt.com/ 17. mailto:[33]michael@michaelshortt.com _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [34]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [35]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 2. mailto:michaelsavga@gmail.com 3. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 4. mailto:jpoca2@hotmail.com 5. mailto:JDeRyke@aol.com 6. mailto:MBGlobalSc@aol.com 7. mailto:jb841@cox.net 8. mailto:RREIDCPA@aol.com 9. mailto:paso750@gmail.com 10. mailto:qrtlow@gmail.com 11. mailto:edducati@mac.com 12. mailto:edducati@mac.com 13. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 14. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 15. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 16. mailto:michael@michaelshortt.com 17. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 18. mailto:michaelsavga@gmail.com 19. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 20. mailto:jpoca2@hotmail.com 21. mailto:JDeRyke@aol.com 22. mailto:MBGlobalSc@aol.com 23. mailto:jb841@cox.net 24. mailto:RREIDCPA@aol.com 25. mailto:paso750@gmail.com 26. mailto:qrtlow@gmail.com 27. mailto:edducati@mac.com 28. mailto:edducati@mac.com 29. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 30. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 31. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 32. http://www.michaelshortt.com/ 33. mailto:michael@michaelshortt.com 34. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 35. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Ken, It appeared as if the post was written by Scott but if you read to the end you will see that this was written by POCA President Michael Shortt. I've met Scott and I don't believe he could ever have written something as hateful as this. I have been hoping that Mr. Shortt had mellowed out but apparently not. Forest __________________________________________________________________ From: Ken Green via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To: "scottcouchman@yahoo.com" <scottcouchman@yahoo.com>; Rod Kunishige <rkunishige@hotmail.com> Cc: "<detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Monday, June 6, 2016 8:21 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Scott, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you really don't know Rod. I think Rod has always been a positive influence on the group in general, and every experience I have had with him has been positive. Rod has contributed as much or more to the community than anyone I know. If you every need a goodwill ambassador for the Pantera community, I think Rod would be high on the list. Ken __________________________________________________________________ From: Scott Couchman via DeTomaso <[1]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To: Rod Kunishige <[2]rkunishige@hotmail.com> Cc: "<[3]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>" <[4]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Monday, June 6, 2016 5:30 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum "You seem to be someone bound and determined to stir up trouble, up until now, I have tried to remain quiet, in your last diatribe, I think it was "until Michael Shortt stops messing with me" or something to that effect, you would stop having these fits of verbal and textual diarrhea. Frankly, I haven't given you another thought, you simply are not part of any equation on my worksheet. You simply are a waste of my time which could be better used for something to benefit the membership instead of dealing with what seems to be a clinically depressed, anti social personality type addicted to drama. That's changed, at the next BOD meeting I will be seeking to censure you as a member for violating our policies, for sharing BOD working emails and for not working within channels. I believe in an earlier email, Ed made the process very clear, go through your Chapter President or contact one of us directly, instead of posting your failures and inability to comprehend structure and civility. If you make another very poor decision to continue these actions, I will seek a second censure in 30 days and ask to remove you from this club. I am not the only one tried of your behavior, there are enough votes now in place to secure both outcomes. This is the last time that I will ask you to become a team player and use your energies to help make POCA a better club instead of trying to destroy it from within. Michael Shortt President POCA" Wow! Really? I thought this was a car club? On Jun 6, 2016, at 8:42 AM, Rod Kunishige <[1][1][5]rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote: Am I to be removed from the POCA? Rod __________________________________________________________________ From: [2][2][6]michaelsavga@gmail.com Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 09:34:45 -0400 Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum To: [3][3][7]rkunishige@hotmail.com CC: [4][4][8]jpoca2@hotmail.com; [5][5][9]JDeRyke@aol.com; [6][6][10]MBGlobalSc@aol.com; [7][7][11]jb841@cox.net; [8][8][12]RREIDCPA@aol.com; [9][9][13]paso750@gmail.com; [10][10][14]qrtlow@gmail.com; [11][11][15]edducati@mac.com Mr. Kunishige, It appears the theme of a nicer, more friendly, and organized POCA which operates through channels escapes you. It also appears a sitting BOD member is sharing BOD ONLY emails with you, that member should know that when I find them out, I will put forth a motion to censure them for violating BOD policy. Since you are not an elected member of the BOD, you are not entitled to our work emails, discussions or methodologies used to arrive at how we do business, once formatted, discussed amongst ourselves, these same issues are put forth in an agenda, discussed during an Open BOD meeting where all members can hear how we take care of business. I think with the exception of the last 3 minutes of the last BOD meeting, it was an excellent example of how civil discourse can happen even between people with disparate points of view. It is called a process, nothing happens by itself, I think the last 10 years of POCA pretty much proves that point. In regard to your past, an inability to maintain a job or to operate a business successfully relates to our situation how? While owning a toy store would be a dream for somebody like me, everybody knows that 4 out of 5 new businesses fail in the first year and of those, 4 out of 5 will never see a fifth year, so your chance of still operating a toy store for five years was only 10% at best. Here is why most new businesses fail. 1 Incompetence 46 % Emotional Pricing Living too high for the business Nonpayment of taxes No knowledge of pricing Lack of planning No knowledge of financing No experience in record-keeping 2 Unbalanced Experience or Lack of Managerial Experience 30 % Poor credit granting practices Expansion too rapid Inadequate borrowing practices 3 Lack of Experiences in line of goods or services 11 % Carry inadequate inventory No knowledge of suppliers Wasted advertising budget 5 Neglect, fraud, disaster 1 % Nobody judges you, we have all had failures, if you don't try, that's the biggest failure of all. You seem to be someone bound and determined to stir up trouble, up until now, I have tried to remain quiet, in your last diatribe, I think it was "until Michael Shortt stops messing with me" or something to that effect, you would stop having these fits of verbal and textual diarrhea. Frankly, I haven't given you another thought, you simply are not part of any equation on my worksheet. You simply are a waste of my time which could be better used for something to benefit the membership instead of dealing with what seems to be a clinically depressed, anti social personality type addicted to drama. That's changed, at the next BOD meeting I will be seeking to censure you as a member for violating our policies, for sharing BOD working emails and for not working within channels. I believe in an earlier email, Ed made the process very clear, go through your Chapter President or contact one of us directly, instead of posting your failures and inability to comprehend structure and civility. If you make another very poor decision to continue these actions, I will seek a second censure in 30 days and ask to remove you from this club. I am not the only one tried of your behavior, there are enough votes now in place to secure both outcomes. This is the last time that I will ask you to become a team player and use your energies to help make POCA a better club instead of trying to destroy it from within. Michael Shortt President POCA This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 6:22 AM, Ed Mendez <[12][12][16]edducati@mac.com> wrote: What part of "the email list should not be used to discuss POCA business", "bring your grievances to your chapter president", and "take it offline" did you not understand? By you copying members and non members of POCA on this email list with your grievances, and personal issues with Michael Shortt; you are placing the whole club in a negative light. This is adversely effecting the clubs ability to recruit new members. Copying the BOD. Kind regards, Ed > On 6/06/2016, at 10:11, Rod Kunishige <[13][13][17]rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Ed Menedez, > > You say that facts are clearly important to you. > > So, let me quote you some snippets taken directly from MS May 16, 2016 > email Subject: Newsletter and Profiles printing/design henceforth: > > O/ Meanwhile, as a part of this change will also come full color > printing on all pages in both the Newsletter / Profiles, a new printer, > and mailing partner. > > O/ The existing printer will not print anything else for POCA > after the June newsletter. > > O/ Your new printing partner is PrintingCenterUSA, > > O/ effective immediately we will begin to adopt layout > designs/templa tes which will dedicate 20% of the total space to > advertising content display. > the Newsletter needs to be 32 total pages each month, 5 pages in total > space needs to be evenly distributed in 1/8 page, 1/4, 1/3. & 1/2 page > horitzontal ads and 1/2 page vertical ads plus a full page ad. > > O/ You will need to coordinate with Ed with proofs so that he will > have the final say on ad placement before adthing is printed. > > O/ The vendor listings are to be removed. They will have to buy > ads to reach our memb ers. > > O/ We also need to use ONLY the newly revised/cleaned up POCA Road > Script and POCA crest. > > Completely detailed specifications are also set as fixed space > allocations for both pubs without consideration for content > adjustments. > > My view is that these are clearly directives not suggestions to > consider to fellow POCA Board Members. > > Ed, should you wish to challenge these facts, Ill be most pleased to > publish the email in its entirety so everyone may view it within its > full context. > NOTE: There seems to be a need to know the qualifications of the > writers who post here. So, let me explain that my career of 35 years > was in Information Technology ending as VP of IT. I also owned and > operated a mailing house directing publications in the SF Bay Area for > 4 years and owned and operated a 9,000 sq ft independent Toy Store for > 5 years. Hope this helps the readers who wish to know my background. I > LOVE this club and vendors. Its members have helped me throughout the > decades. > Rod > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > [14][14][18]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > [15][15][19]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. -- Michael L. Shortt Savannah, Georgia [16]www.michaelshortt.com [17][16][20]michael@michaelshortt.com 912-232-9390 This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you References 1. mailto:[17][21]rkunishige@hotmail.com 2. mailto:[18][22]michaelsavga@gmail.com 3. mailto:[19][23]rkunishige@hotmail.com 4. mailto:[20][24]jpoca2@hotmail.com 5. mailto:[21][25]JDeRyke@aol.com 6. mailto:[22][26]MBGlobalSc@aol.com 7. mailto:[23][27]jb841@cox.net 8. mailto:[24][28]RREIDCPA@aol.com 9. mailto:[25][29]paso750@gmail.com 10. mailto:[26][30]qrtlow@gmail.com 11. mailto:[27][31]edducati@mac.com 12. mailto:[28][32]edducati@mac.com 13. mailto:[29][33]rkunishige@hotmail.com 14. mailto:[30][34]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 15. [31][35]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 16. [32][36]http://www.michaelshortt.com/ 17. mailto:[33][37]michael@michaelshortt.com _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [34][38]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [35][39]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:[40]rkunishige@hotmail.com 2. mailto:[41]michaelsavga@gmail.com 3. mailto:[42]rkunishige@hotmail.com 4. mailto:[43]jpoca2@hotmail.com 5. mailto:[44]JDeRyke@aol.com 6. mailto:[45]MBGlobalSc@aol.com 7. mailto:[46]jb841@cox.net 8. mailto:[47]RREIDCPA@aol.com 9. mailto:[48]paso750@gmail.com 10. mailto:[49]qrtlow@gmail.com 11. mailto:[50]edducati@mac.com 12. mailto:[51]edducati@mac.com 13. mailto:[52]rkunishige@hotmail.com 14. mailto:[53]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 15. [54]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 16. mailto:[55]michael@michaelshortt.com 17. mailto:[56]rkunishige@hotmail.com 18. mailto:[57]michaelsavga@gmail.com 19. mailto:[58]rkunishige@hotmail.com 20. mailto:[59]jpoca2@hotmail.com 21. mailto:[60]JDeRyke@aol.com 22. mailto:[61]MBGlobalSc@aol.com 23. mailto:[62]jb841@cox.net 24. mailto:[63]RREIDCPA@aol.com 25. mailto:[64]paso750@gmail.com 26. mailto:[65]qrtlow@gmail.com 27. mailto:[66]edducati@mac.com 28. mailto:[67]edducati@mac.com 29. mailto:[68]rkunishige@hotmail.com 30. mailto:[69]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 31. [70]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 32. [71]http://www.michaelshortt.com/ 33. mailto:[72]michael@michaelshortt.com 34. mailto:[73]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 35. [74]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [75]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [76]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 2. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 3. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 4. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 5. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 6. mailto:michaelsavga@gmail.com 7. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 8. mailto:jpoca2@hotmail.com 9. mailto:JDeRyke@aol.com 10. mailto:MBGlobalSc@aol.com 11. mailto:jb841@cox.net 12. mailto:RREIDCPA@aol.com 13. mailto:paso750@gmail.com 14. mailto:qrtlow@gmail.com 15. mailto:edducati@mac.com 16. mailto:edducati@mac.com 17. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 18. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 19. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 20. mailto:michael@michaelshortt.com 21. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 22. mailto:michaelsavga@gmail.com 23. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 24. mailto:jpoca2@hotmail.com 25. mailto:JDeRyke@aol.com 26. mailto:MBGlobalSc@aol.com 27. mailto:jb841@cox.net 28. mailto:RREIDCPA@aol.com 29. mailto:paso750@gmail.com 30. mailto:qrtlow@gmail.com 31. mailto:edducati@mac.com 32. mailto:edducati@mac.com 33. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 34. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 35. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 36. http://www.michaelshortt.com/ 37. mailto:michael@michaelshortt.com 38. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 39. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 40. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 41. mailto:michaelsavga@gmail.com 42. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 43. mailto:jpoca2@hotmail.com 44. mailto:JDeRyke@aol.com 45. mailto:MBGlobalSc@aol.com 46. mailto:jb841@cox.net 47. mailto:RREIDCPA@aol.com 48. mailto:paso750@gmail.com 49. mailto:qrtlow@gmail.com 50. mailto:edducati@mac.com 51. mailto:edducati@mac.com 52. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 53. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 54. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 55. mailto:michael@michaelshortt.com 56. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 57. mailto:michaelsavga@gmail.com 58. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 59. mailto:jpoca2@hotmail.com 60. mailto:JDeRyke@aol.com 61. mailto:MBGlobalSc@aol.com 62. mailto:jb841@cox.net 63. mailto:RREIDCPA@aol.com 64. mailto:paso750@gmail.com 65. mailto:qrtlow@gmail.com 66. mailto:edducati@mac.com 67. mailto:edducati@mac.com 68. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 69. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 70. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 71. http://www.michaelshortt.com/ 72. mailto:michael@michaelshortt.com 73. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 74. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 75. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 76. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
I don't read Shortt's posts, just delete them, so I didn't see it before I saw Scott's re-post. Sorry Scott. Ken From: Forest Goodhart <forestg@att.net> To: "detomaso@server.detomasolist.com" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Monday, June 6, 2016 9:45 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Ken, It appeared as if the post was written by Scott but if you read to the end you will see that this was written by POCA President Michael Shortt. I've met Scott and I don't believe he could ever have written something as hateful as this. I have been hoping that Mr. Shortt had mellowed out but apparently not. Forest __________________________________________________________________ From: Ken Green via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To: "scottcouchman@yahoo.com" <scottcouchman@yahoo.com>; Rod Kunishige <rkunishige@hotmail.com> Cc: "<detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Monday, June 6, 2016 8:21 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Scott, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you really don't know Rod. I think Rod has always been a positive influence on the group in general, and every experience I have had with him has been positive. Rod has contributed as much or more to the community than anyone I know. If you every need a goodwill ambassador for the Pantera community, I think Rod would be high on the list. Ken __________________________________________________________________ From: Scott Couchman via DeTomaso <[1]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To: Rod Kunishige <[2]rkunishige@hotmail.com> Cc: "<[3]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>" <[4]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Monday, June 6, 2016 5:30 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum "You seem to be someone bound and determined to stir up trouble, up until now, I have tried to remain quiet, in your last diatribe, I think it was "until Michael Shortt stops messing with me" or something to that effect, you would stop having these fits of verbal and textual diarrhea. Frankly, I haven't given you another thought, you simply are not part of any equation on my worksheet. You simply are a waste of my time which could be better used for something to benefit the membership instead of dealing with what seems to be a clinically depressed, anti social personality type addicted to drama. That's changed, at the next BOD meeting I will be seeking to censure you as a member for violating our policies, for sharing BOD working emails and for not working within channels. I believe in an earlier email, Ed made the process very clear, go through your Chapter President or contact one of us directly, instead of posting your failures and inability to comprehend structure and civility. If you make another very poor decision to continue these actions, I will seek a second censure in 30 days and ask to remove you from this club. I am not the only one tried of your behavior, there are enough votes now in place to secure both outcomes. This is the last time that I will ask you to become a team player and use your energies to help make POCA a better club instead of trying to destroy it from within. Michael Shortt President POCA" Wow! Really? I thought this was a car club? On Jun 6, 2016, at 8:42 AM, Rod Kunishige <[1][1][5]rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote: Am I to be removed from the POCA? Rod __________________________________________________________________ From: [2][2][6]michaelsavga@gmail.com Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 09:34:45 -0400 Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum To: [3][3][7]rkunishige@hotmail.com CC: [4][4][8]jpoca2@hotmail.com; [5][5][9]JDeRyke@aol.com; [6][6][10]MBGlobalSc@aol.com; [7][7][11]jb841@cox.net; [8][8][12]RREIDCPA@aol.com; [9][9][13]paso750@gmail.com; [10][10][14]qrtlow@gmail.com; [11][11][15]edducati@mac.com Mr. Kunishige, It appears the theme of a nicer, more friendly, and organized POCA which operates through channels escapes you. It also appears a sitting BOD member is sharing BOD ONLY emails with you, that member should know that when I find them out, I will put forth a motion to censure them for violating BOD policy. Since you are not an elected member of the BOD, you are not entitled to our work emails, discussions or methodologies used to arrive at how we do business, once formatted, discussed amongst ourselves, these same issues are put forth in an agenda, discussed during an Open BOD meeting where all members can hear how we take care of business. I think with the exception of the last 3 minutes of the last BOD meeting, it was an excellent example of how civil discourse can happen even between people with disparate points of view. It is called a process, nothing happens by itself, I think the last 10 years of POCA pretty much proves that point. In regard to your past, an inability to maintain a job or to operate a business successfully relates to our situation how? While owning a toy store would be a dream for somebody like me, everybody knows that 4 out of 5 new businesses fail in the first year and of those, 4 out of 5 will never see a fifth year, so your chance of still operating a toy store for five years was only 10% at best. Here is why most new businesses fail. 1 Incompetence 46 % Emotional Pricing Living too high for the business Nonpayment of taxes No knowledge of pricing Lack of planning No knowledge of financing No experience in record-keeping 2 Unbalanced Experience or Lack of Managerial Experience 30 % Poor credit granting practices Expansion too rapid Inadequate borrowing practices 3 Lack of Experiences in line of goods or services 11 % Carry inadequate inventory No knowledge of suppliers Wasted advertising budget 5 Neglect, fraud, disaster 1 % Nobody judges you, we have all had failures, if you don't try, that's the biggest failure of all. You seem to be someone bound and determined to stir up trouble, up until now, I have tried to remain quiet, in your last diatribe, I think it was "until Michael Shortt stops messing with me" or something to that effect, you would stop having these fits of verbal and textual diarrhea. Frankly, I haven't given you another thought, you simply are not part of any equation on my worksheet. You simply are a waste of my time which could be better used for something to benefit the membership instead of dealing with what seems to be a clinically depressed, anti social personality type addicted to drama. That's changed, at the next BOD meeting I will be seeking to censure you as a member for violating our policies, for sharing BOD working emails and for not working within channels. I believe in an earlier email, Ed made the process very clear, go through your Chapter President or contact one of us directly, instead of posting your failures and inability to comprehend structure and civility. If you make another very poor decision to continue these actions, I will seek a second censure in 30 days and ask to remove you from this club. I am not the only one tried of your behavior, there are enough votes now in place to secure both outcomes. This is the last time that I will ask you to become a team player and use your energies to help make POCA a better club instead of trying to destroy it from within. Michael Shortt President POCA This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 6:22 AM, Ed Mendez <[12][12][16]edducati@mac.com> wrote: What part of "the email list should not be used to discuss POCA business", "bring your grievances to your chapter president", and "take it offline" did you not understand? By you copying members and non members of POCA on this email list with your grievances, and personal issues with Michael Shortt; you are placing the whole club in a negative light. This is adversely effecting the clubs ability to recruit new members. Copying the BOD. Kind regards, Ed > On 6/06/2016, at 10:11, Rod Kunishige <[13][13][17]rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Ed Menedez, > > You say that facts are clearly important to you. > > So, let me quote you some snippets taken directly from MS May 16, 2016 > email Subject: Newsletter and Profiles printing/design henceforth: > > O/ Meanwhile, as a part of this change will also come full color > printing on all pages in both the Newsletter / Profiles, a new printer, > and mailing partner. > > O/ The existing printer will not print anything else for POCA > after the June newsletter. > > O/ Your new printing partner is PrintingCenterUSA, > > O/ effective immediately we will begin to adopt layout > designs/templa tes which will dedicate 20% of the total space to > advertising content display. > the Newsletter needs to be 32 total pages each month, 5 pages in total > space needs to be evenly distributed in 1/8 page, 1/4, 1/3. & 1/2 page > horitzontal ads and 1/2 page vertical ads plus a full page ad. > > O/ You will need to coordinate with Ed with proofs so that he will > have the final say on ad placement before adthing is printed. > > O/ The vendor listings are to be removed. They will have to buy > ads to reach our memb ers. > > O/ We also need to use ONLY the newly revised/cleaned up POCA Road > Script and POCA crest. > > Completely detailed specifications are also set as fixed space > allocations for both pubs without consideration for content > adjustments. > > My view is that these are clearly directives not suggestions to > consider to fellow POCA Board Members. > > Ed, should you wish to challenge these facts, Ill be most pleased to > publish the email in its entirety so everyone may view it within its > full context. > NOTE: There seems to be a need to know the qualifications of the > writers who post here. So, let me explain that my career of 35 years > was in Information Technology ending as VP of IT. I also owned and > operated a mailing house directing publications in the SF Bay Area for > 4 years and owned and operated a 9,000 sq ft independent Toy Store for > 5 years. Hope this helps the readers who wish to know my background. I > LOVE this club and vendors. Its members have helped me throughout the > decades. > Rod > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > [14][14][18]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > [15][15][19]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. -- Michael L. Shortt Savannah, Georgia [16]www.michaelshortt.com [17][16][20]michael@michaelshortt.com 912-232-9390 This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you References 1. mailto:[17][21]rkunishige@hotmail.com 2. mailto:[18][22]michaelsavga@gmail.com 3. mailto:[19][23]rkunishige@hotmail.com 4. mailto:[20][24]jpoca2@hotmail.com 5. mailto:[21][25]JDeRyke@aol.com 6. mailto:[22][26]MBGlobalSc@aol.com 7. mailto:[23][27]jb841@cox.net 8. mailto:[24][28]RREIDCPA@aol.com 9. mailto:[25][29]paso750@gmail.com 10. mailto:[26][30]qrtlow@gmail.com 11. mailto:[27][31]edducati@mac.com 12. mailto:[28][32]edducati@mac.com 13. mailto:[29][33]rkunishige@hotmail.com 14. mailto:[30][34]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 15. [31][35]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 16. [32][36]http://www.michaelshortt.com/ 17. mailto:[33][37]michael@michaelshortt.com _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [34][38]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [35][39]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:[40]rkunishige@hotmail.com 2. mailto:[41]michaelsavga@gmail.com 3. mailto:[42]rkunishige@hotmail.com 4. mailto:[43]jpoca2@hotmail.com 5. mailto:[44]JDeRyke@aol.com 6. mailto:[45]MBGlobalSc@aol.com 7. mailto:[46]jb841@cox.net 8. mailto:[47]RREIDCPA@aol.com 9. mailto:[48]paso750@gmail.com 10. mailto:[49]qrtlow@gmail.com 11. mailto:[50]edducati@mac.com 12. mailto:[51]edducati@mac.com 13. mailto:[52]rkunishige@hotmail.com 14. mailto:[53]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 15. [54]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 16. mailto:[55]michael@michaelshortt.com 17. mailto:[56]rkunishige@hotmail.com 18. mailto:[57]michaelsavga@gmail.com 19. mailto:[58]rkunishige@hotmail.com 20. mailto:[59]jpoca2@hotmail.com 21. mailto:[60]JDeRyke@aol.com 22. mailto:[61]MBGlobalSc@aol.com 23. mailto:[62]jb841@cox.net 24. mailto:[63]RREIDCPA@aol.com 25. mailto:[64]paso750@gmail.com 26. mailto:[65]qrtlow@gmail.com 27. mailto:[66]edducati@mac.com 28. mailto:[67]edducati@mac.com 29. mailto:[68]rkunishige@hotmail.com 30. mailto:[69]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 31. [70]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 32. [71]http://www.michaelshortt.com/ 33. mailto:[72]michael@michaelshortt.com 34. mailto:[73]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 35. [74]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [75]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [76]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 2. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 3. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 4. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 5. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 6. mailto:michaelsavga@gmail.com 7. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 8. mailto:jpoca2@hotmail.com 9. mailto:JDeRyke@aol.com 10. mailto:MBGlobalSc@aol.com 11. mailto:jb841@cox.net 12. mailto:RREIDCPA@aol.com 13. mailto:paso750@gmail.com 14. mailto:qrtlow@gmail.com 15. mailto:edducati@mac.com 16. mailto:edducati@mac.com 17. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 18. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 19. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 20. mailto:michael@michaelshortt.com 21. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 22. mailto:michaelsavga@gmail.com 23. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 24. mailto:jpoca2@hotmail.com 25. mailto:JDeRyke@aol.com 26. mailto:MBGlobalSc@aol.com 27. mailto:jb841@cox.net 28. mailto:RREIDCPA@aol.com 29. mailto:paso750@gmail.com 30. mailto:qrtlow@gmail.com 31. mailto:edducati@mac.com 32. mailto:edducati@mac.com 33. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 34. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 35. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 36. http://www.michaelshortt.com/ 37. mailto:michael@michaelshortt.com 38. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 39. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 40. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 41. mailto:michaelsavga@gmail.com 42. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 43. mailto:jpoca2@hotmail.com 44. mailto:JDeRyke@aol.com 45. mailto:MBGlobalSc@aol.com 46. mailto:jb841@cox.net 47. mailto:RREIDCPA@aol.com 48. mailto:paso750@gmail.com 49. mailto:qrtlow@gmail.com 50. mailto:edducati@mac.com 51. mailto:edducati@mac.com 52. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 53. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 54. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 55. mailto:michael@michaelshortt.com 56. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 57. mailto:michaelsavga@gmail.com 58. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 59. mailto:jpoca2@hotmail.com 60. mailto:JDeRyke@aol.com 61. mailto:MBGlobalSc@aol.com 62. mailto:jb841@cox.net 63. mailto:RREIDCPA@aol.com 64. mailto:paso750@gmail.com 65. mailto:qrtlow@gmail.com 66. mailto:edducati@mac.com 67. mailto:edducati@mac.com 68. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 69. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 70. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 71. http://www.michaelshortt.com/ 72. mailto:michael@michaelshortt.com 73. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 74. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 75. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 76. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. I don't read Shortt's posts, just delete them, so I didn't see it before I saw Scott's re-post. Sorry Scott. Ken __________________________________________________________________ From: Forest Goodhart <forestg@att.net> To: "detomaso@server.detomasolist.com" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Monday, June 6, 2016 9:45 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Ken, It appeared as if the post was written by Scott but if you read to the end you will see that this was written by POCA President Michael Shortt. I've met Scott and I don't believe he could ever have written something as hateful as this. I have been hoping that Mr. Shortt had mellowed out but apparently not. Forest __________________________________________________________________ From: Ken Green via DeTomaso <[1]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To: "[2]scottcouchman@yahoo.com" <[3]scottcouchman@yahoo.com>; Rod Kunishige <[4]rkunishige@hotmail.com> Cc: "<[5]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>" <[6]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Monday, June 6, 2016 8:21 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Scott, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you really don't know Rod. I think Rod has always been a positive influence on the group in general, and every experience I have had with him has been positive. Rod has contributed as much or more to the community than anyone I know. If you every need a goodwill ambassador for the Pantera community, I think Rod would be high on the list. Ken __________________________________________________________________ From: Scott Couchman via DeTomaso <[1][7]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To: Rod Kunishige <[2][8]rkunishige@hotmail.com> Cc: "<[3][9]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>" <[4][10]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Monday, June 6, 2016 5:30 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum "You seem to be someone bound and determined to stir up trouble, up until now, I have tried to remain quiet, in your last diatribe, I think it was "until Michael Shortt stops messing with me" or something to that effect, you would stop having these fits of verbal and textual diarrhea. Frankly, I haven't given you another thought, you simply are not part of any equation on my worksheet. You simply are a waste of my time which could be better used for something to benefit the membership instead of dealing with what seems to be a clinically depressed, anti social personality type addicted to drama. That's changed, at the next BOD meeting I will be seeking to censure you as a member for violating our policies, for sharing BOD working emails and for not working within channels. I believe in an earlier email, Ed made the process very clear, go through your Chapter President or contact one of us directly, instead of posting your failures and inability to comprehend structure and civility. If you make another very poor decision to continue these actions, I will seek a second censure in 30 days and ask to remove you from this club. I am not the only one tried of your behavior, there are enough votes now in place to secure both outcomes. This is the last time that I will ask you to become a team player and use your energies to help make POCA a better club instead of trying to destroy it from within. Michael Shortt President POCA" Wow! Really? I thought this was a car club? On Jun 6, 2016, at 8:42 AM, Rod Kunishige <[1][1][5][11]rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote: Am I to be removed from the POCA? Rod __________________________________________________________________ From: [2][2][6][12]michaelsavga@gmail.com Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 09:34:45 -0400 Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum To: [3][3][7][13]rkunishige@hotmail.com CC: [4][4][8][14]jpoca2@hotmail.com; [5][5][9][15]JDeRyke@aol.com; [6][6][10][16]MBGlobalSc@aol.com; [7][7][11][17]jb841@cox.net; [8][8][12][18]RREIDCPA@aol.com; [9][9][13][19]paso750@gmail.com; [10][10][14][20]qrtlow@gmail.com; [11][11][15][21]edducati@mac.com Mr. Kunishige, It appears the theme of a nicer, more friendly, and organized POCA which operates through channels escapes you. It also appears a sitting BOD member is sharing BOD ONLY emails with you, that member should know that when I find them out, I will put forth a motion to censure them for violating BOD policy. Since you are not an elected member of the BOD, you are not entitled to our work emails, discussions or methodologies used to arrive at how we do business, once formatted, discussed amongst ourselves, these same issues are put forth in an agenda, discussed during an Open BOD meeting where all members can hear how we take care of business. I think with the exception of the last 3 minutes of the last BOD meeting, it was an excellent example of how civil discourse can happen even between people with disparate points of view. It is called a process, nothing happens by itself, I think the last 10 years of POCA pretty much proves that point. In regard to your past, an inability to maintain a job or to operate a business successfully relates to our situation how? While owning a toy store would be a dream for somebody like me, everybody knows that 4 out of 5 new businesses fail in the first year and of those, 4 out of 5 will never see a fifth year, so your chance of still operating a toy store for five years was only 10% at best. Here is why most new businesses fail. 1 Incompetence 46 % Emotional Pricing Living too high for the business Nonpayment of taxes No knowledge of pricing Lack of planning No knowledge of financing No experience in record-keeping 2 Unbalanced Experience or Lack of Managerial Experience 30 % Poor credit granting practices Expansion too rapid Inadequate borrowing practices 3 Lack of Experiences in line of goods or services 11 % Carry inadequate inventory No knowledge of suppliers Wasted advertising budget 5 Neglect, fraud, disaster 1 % Nobody judges you, we have all had failures, if you don't try, that's the biggest failure of all. You seem to be someone bound and determined to stir up trouble, up until now, I have tried to remain quiet, in your last diatribe, I think it was "until Michael Shortt stops messing with me" or something to that effect, you would stop having these fits of verbal and textual diarrhea. Frankly, I haven't given you another thought, you simply are not part of any equation on my worksheet. You simply are a waste of my time which could be better used for something to benefit the membership instead of dealing with what seems to be a clinically depressed, anti social personality type addicted to drama. That's changed, at the next BOD meeting I will be seeking to censure you as a member for violating our policies, for sharing BOD working emails and for not working within channels. I believe in an earlier email, Ed made the process very clear, go through your Chapter President or contact one of us directly, instead of posting your failures and inability to comprehend structure and civility. If you make another very poor decision to continue these actions, I will seek a second censure in 30 days and ask to remove you from this club. I am not the only one tried of your behavior, there are enough votes now in place to secure both outcomes. This is the last time that I will ask you to become a team player and use your energies to help make POCA a better club instead of trying to destroy it from within. Michael Shortt President POCA This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 6:22 AM, Ed Mendez <[12][12][16][22]edducati@mac.com> wrote: What part of "the email list should not be used to discuss POCA business", "bring your grievances to your chapter president", and "take it offline" did you not understand? By you copying members and non members of POCA on this email list with your grievances, and personal issues with Michael Shortt; you are placing the whole club in a negative light. This is adversely effecting the clubs ability to recruit new members. Copying the BOD. Kind regards, Ed > On 6/06/2016, at 10:11, Rod Kunishige <[13][13][17][23]rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Ed Menedez, > > You say that facts are clearly important to you. > > So, let me quote you some snippets taken directly from MS May 16, 2016 > email Subject: Newsletter and Profiles printing/design henceforth: > > O/ Meanwhile, as a part of this change will also come full color > printing on all pages in both the Newsletter / Profiles, a new printer, > and mailing partner. > > O/ The existing printer will not print anything else for POCA > after the June newsletter. > > O/ Your new printing partner is PrintingCenterUSA, > > O/ effective immediately we will begin to adopt layout > designs/templa tes which will dedicate 20% of the total space to > advertising content display. > the Newsletter needs to be 32 total pages each month, 5 pages in total > space needs to be evenly distributed in 1/8 page, 1/4, 1/3. & 1/2 page > horitzontal ads and 1/2 page vertical ads plus a full page ad. > > O/ You will need to coordinate with Ed with proofs so that he will > have the final say on ad placement before adthing is printed. > > O/ The vendor listings are to be removed. They will have to buy > ads to reach our memb ers. > > O/ We also need to use ONLY the newly revised/cleaned up POCA Road > Script and POCA crest. > > Completely detailed specifications are also set as fixed space > allocations for both pubs without consideration for content > adjustments. > > My view is that these are clearly directives not suggestions to > consider to fellow POCA Board Members. > > Ed, should you wish to challenge these facts, Ill be most pleased to > publish the email in its entirety so everyone may view it within its > full context. > NOTE: There seems to be a need to know the qualifications of the > writers who post here. So, let me explain that my career of 35 years > was in Information Technology ending as VP of IT. I also owned and > operated a mailing house directing publications in the SF Bay Area for > 4 years and owned and operated a 9,000 sq ft independent Toy Store for > 5 years. Hope this helps the readers who wish to know my background. I > LOVE this club and vendors. Its members have helped me throughout the > decades. > Rod > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > [14][14][18][24]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > [15][15][19][25]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomas o > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. -- Michael L. Shortt Savannah, Georgia [16]www.michaelshortt.com [17][16][20][26]michael@michaelshortt.com 912-232-9390 This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you References 1. mailto:[17][21][27]rkunishige@hotmail.com 2. mailto:[18][22][28]michaelsavga@gmail.com 3. mailto:[19][23][29]rkunishige@hotmail.com 4. mailto:[20][24][30]jpoca2@hotmail.com 5. mailto:[21][25][31]JDeRyke@aol.com 6. mailto:[22][26][32]MBGlobalSc@aol.com 7. mailto:[23][27][33]jb841@cox.net 8. mailto:[24][28][34]RREIDCPA@aol.com 9. mailto:[25][29][35]paso750@gmail.com 10. mailto:[26][30][36]qrtlow@gmail.com 11. mailto:[27][31][37]edducati@mac.com 12. mailto:[28][32][38]edducati@mac.com 13. mailto:[29][33][39]rkunishige@hotmail.com 14. mailto:[30][34][40]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 15. [31][35][41]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 16. [32][36][42]http://www.michaelshortt.com/ 17. mailto:[33][37][43]michael@michaelshortt.com _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [34][38][44]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [35][39][45]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:[40][46]rkunishige@hotmail.com 2. mailto:[41][47]michaelsavga@gmail.com 3. mailto:[42][48]rkunishige@hotmail.com 4. mailto:[43][49]jpoca2@hotmail.com 5. mailto:[44][50]JDeRyke@aol.com 6. mailto:[45][51]MBGlobalSc@aol.com 7. mailto:[46][52]jb841@cox.net 8. mailto:[47][53]RREIDCPA@aol.com 9. mailto:[48][54]paso750@gmail.com 10. mailto:[49][55]qrtlow@gmail.com 11. mailto:[50][56]edducati@mac.com 12. mailto:[51][57]edducati@mac.com 13. mailto:[52][58]rkunishige@hotmail.com 14. mailto:[53][59]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 15. [54][60]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 16. mailto:[55][61]michael@michaelshortt.com 17. mailto:[56][62]rkunishige@hotmail.com 18. mailto:[57][63]michaelsavga@gmail.com 19. mailto:[58][64]rkunishige@hotmail.com 20. mailto:[59][65]jpoca2@hotmail.com 21. mailto:[60][66]JDeRyke@aol.com 22. mailto:[61][67]MBGlobalSc@aol.com 23. mailto:[62][68]jb841@cox.net 24. mailto:[63][69]RREIDCPA@aol.com 25. mailto:[64][70]paso750@gmail.com 26. mailto:[65][71]qrtlow@gmail.com 27. mailto:[66][72]edducati@mac.com 28. mailto:[67][73]edducati@mac.com 29. mailto:[68][74]rkunishige@hotmail.com 30. mailto:[69][75]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 31. [70][76]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 32. [71][77]http://www.michaelshortt.com/ 33. mailto:[72][78]michael@michaelshortt.com 34. mailto:[73][79]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 35. [74][80]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [75][81]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [76][82]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:[83]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 2. mailto:[84]rkunishige@hotmail.com 3. mailto:[85]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 4. mailto:[86]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 5. mailto:[87]rkunishige@hotmail.com 6. mailto:[88]michaelsavga@gmail.com 7. mailto:[89]rkunishige@hotmail.com 8. mailto:[90]jpoca2@hotmail.com 9. mailto:[91]JDeRyke@aol.com 10. mailto:[92]MBGlobalSc@aol.com 11. mailto:[93]jb841@cox.net 12. mailto:[94]RREIDCPA@aol.com 13. mailto:[95]paso750@gmail.com 14. mailto:[96]qrtlow@gmail.com 15. mailto:[97]edducati@mac.com 16. mailto:[98]edducati@mac.com 17. mailto:[99]rkunishige@hotmail.com 18. mailto:[100]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 19. [101]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 20. mailto:[102]michael@michaelshortt.com 21. mailto:[103]rkunishige@hotmail.com 22. mailto:[104]michaelsavga@gmail.com 23. mailto:[105]rkunishige@hotmail.com 24. mailto:[106]jpoca2@hotmail.com 25. mailto:[107]JDeRyke@aol.com 26. mailto:[108]MBGlobalSc@aol.com 27. mailto:[109]jb841@cox.net 28. mailto:[110]RREIDCPA@aol.com 29. mailto:[111]paso750@gmail.com 30. mailto:[112]qrtlow@gmail.com 31. mailto:[113]edducati@mac.com 32. mailto:[114]edducati@mac.com 33. mailto:[115]rkunishige@hotmail.com 34. mailto:[116]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 35. [117]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 36. [118]http://www.michaelshortt.com/ 37. mailto:[119]michael@michaelshortt.com 38. mailto:[120]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 39. [121]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 40. mailto:[122]rkunishige@hotmail.com 41. mailto:[123]michaelsavga@gmail.com 42. mailto:[124]rkunishige@hotmail.com 43. mailto:[125]jpoca2@hotmail.com 44. mailto:[126]JDeRyke@aol.com 45. mailto:[127]MBGlobalSc@aol.com 46. mailto:[128]jb841@cox.net 47. mailto:[129]RREIDCPA@aol.com 48. mailto:[130]paso750@gmail.com 49. mailto:[131]qrtlow@gmail.com 50. mailto:[132]edducati@mac.com 51. mailto:[133]edducati@mac.com 52. mailto:[134]rkunishige@hotmail.com 53. mailto:[135]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 54. [136]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 55. mailto:[137]michael@michaelshortt.com 56. mailto:[138]rkunishige@hotmail.com 57. mailto:[139]michaelsavga@gmail.com 58. mailto:[140]rkunishige@hotmail.com 59. mailto:[141]jpoca2@hotmail.com 60. mailto:[142]JDeRyke@aol.com 61. mailto:[143]MBGlobalSc@aol.com 62. mailto:[144]jb841@cox.net 63. mailto:[145]RREIDCPA@aol.com 64. mailto:[146]paso750@gmail.com 65. mailto:[147]qrtlow@gmail.com 66. mailto:[148]edducati@mac.com 67. mailto:[149]edducati@mac.com 68. mailto:[150]rkunishige@hotmail.com 69. mailto:[151]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 70. [152]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 71. [153]http://www.michaelshortt.com/ 72. mailto:[154]michael@michaelshortt.com 73. mailto:[155]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 74. [156]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 75. mailto:[157]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 76. [158]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [159]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [160]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 2. mailto:scottcouchman@yahoo.com 3. mailto:scottcouchman@yahoo.com 4. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 5. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 6. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 7. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 8. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 9. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 10. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 11. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 12. mailto:michaelsavga@gmail.com 13. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 14. mailto:jpoca2@hotmail.com 15. mailto:JDeRyke@aol.com 16. mailto:MBGlobalSc@aol.com 17. mailto:jb841@cox.net 18. mailto:RREIDCPA@aol.com 19. mailto:paso750@gmail.com 20. mailto:qrtlow@gmail.com 21. mailto:edducati@mac.com 22. mailto:edducati@mac.com 23. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 24. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 25. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 26. mailto:michael@michaelshortt.com 27. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 28. mailto:michaelsavga@gmail.com 29. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 30. mailto:jpoca2@hotmail.com 31. mailto:JDeRyke@aol.com 32. mailto:MBGlobalSc@aol.com 33. mailto:jb841@cox.net 34. mailto:RREIDCPA@aol.com 35. mailto:paso750@gmail.com 36. mailto:qrtlow@gmail.com 37. mailto:edducati@mac.com 38. mailto:edducati@mac.com 39. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 40. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 41. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 42. http://www.michaelshortt.com/ 43. mailto:michael@michaelshortt.com 44. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 45. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 46. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 47. mailto:michaelsavga@gmail.com 48. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 49. mailto:jpoca2@hotmail.com 50. mailto:JDeRyke@aol.com 51. mailto:MBGlobalSc@aol.com 52. mailto:jb841@cox.net 53. mailto:RREIDCPA@aol.com 54. mailto:paso750@gmail.com 55. mailto:qrtlow@gmail.com 56. mailto:edducati@mac.com 57. mailto:edducati@mac.com 58. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 59. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 60. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 61. mailto:michael@michaelshortt.com 62. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 63. mailto:michaelsavga@gmail.com 64. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 65. mailto:jpoca2@hotmail.com 66. mailto:JDeRyke@aol.com 67. mailto:MBGlobalSc@aol.com 68. mailto:jb841@cox.net 69. mailto:RREIDCPA@aol.com 70. mailto:paso750@gmail.com 71. mailto:qrtlow@gmail.com 72. mailto:edducati@mac.com 73. mailto:edducati@mac.com 74. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 75. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 76. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 77. http://www.michaelshortt.com/ 78. mailto:michael@michaelshortt.com 79. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 80. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 81. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 82. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 83. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 84. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 85. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 86. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 87. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 88. mailto:michaelsavga@gmail.com 89. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 90. mailto:jpoca2@hotmail.com 91. mailto:JDeRyke@aol.com 92. mailto:MBGlobalSc@aol.com 93. mailto:jb841@cox.net 94. mailto:RREIDCPA@aol.com 95. mailto:paso750@gmail.com 96. mailto:qrtlow@gmail.com 97. mailto:edducati@mac.com 98. mailto:edducati@mac.com 99. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 100. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 101. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 102. mailto:michael@michaelshortt.com 103. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 104. mailto:michaelsavga@gmail.com 105. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 106. mailto:jpoca2@hotmail.com 107. mailto:JDeRyke@aol.com 108. mailto:MBGlobalSc@aol.com 109. mailto:jb841@cox.net 110. mailto:RREIDCPA@aol.com 111. mailto:paso750@gmail.com 112. mailto:qrtlow@gmail.com 113. mailto:edducati@mac.com 114. mailto:edducati@mac.com 115. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 116. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 117. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 118. http://www.michaelshortt.com/ 119. mailto:michael@michaelshortt.com 120. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 121. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 122. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 123. mailto:michaelsavga@gmail.com 124. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 125. mailto:jpoca2@hotmail.com 126. mailto:JDeRyke@aol.com 127. mailto:MBGlobalSc@aol.com 128. mailto:jb841@cox.net 129. mailto:RREIDCPA@aol.com 130. mailto:paso750@gmail.com 131. mailto:qrtlow@gmail.com 132. mailto:edducati@mac.com 133. mailto:edducati@mac.com 134. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 135. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 136. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 137. mailto:michael@michaelshortt.com 138. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 139. mailto:michaelsavga@gmail.com 140. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 141. mailto:jpoca2@hotmail.com 142. mailto:JDeRyke@aol.com 143. mailto:MBGlobalSc@aol.com 144. mailto:jb841@cox.net 145. mailto:RREIDCPA@aol.com 146. mailto:paso750@gmail.com 147. mailto:qrtlow@gmail.com 148. mailto:edducati@mac.com 149. mailto:edducati@mac.com 150. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 151. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 152. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 153. http://www.michaelshortt.com/ 154. mailto:michael@michaelshortt.com 155. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 156. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 157. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 158. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 159. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 160. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
Aloha My body guy spray painted the black L model front rubber bumper. Now the paint is bumpy, with cracks, and looks bad. My thought is to sand off the paint. But I do not know how to get the luster back to the black bumper. Any suggestions about this problem. Ed Kemper Honolulu Aloha My body guy spray painted the black L model front rubber bumper. Now the paint is bumpy, with cracks, and looks bad. My thought is to sand off the paint. But I do not know how to get the luster back to the black bumper. Any suggestions about this problem. Ed Kemper Honolulu
Ed, I have the newer replacement bumper if you need it. It's not rubber. I had it on my car for a short while when my original bumper disintegrated. I took it off and replaced with the small bumperetts. Very lightweight so shipping should not break the bank. Terry "A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan, stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!" Terry W. Himes JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory Dawn Spacecraft Team Rosetta Sequence Team Lead Phone: (818) 393-6261 Cell: (818) 653-8213 Fax: (818) 393-3147 thimes@jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:thimes@jpl.nasa.gov> 🇺🇸 From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com>> on behalf of edracers--- via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>> Reply-To: "edracers@aol.com<mailto:edracers@aol.com>" <edracers@aol.com<mailto:edracers@aol.com>> Date: Monday, June 6, 2016 11:00 PM To: "detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] L bumper issue Aloha My body guy spray painted the black L model front rubber bumper. Now the paint is bumpy, with cracks, and looks bad. My thought is to sand off the paint. But I do not know how to get the luster back to the black bumper. Any suggestions about this problem. Ed Kemper Honolulu Ed, I have the newer replacement bumper if you need it. It's not rubber. I had it on my car for a short while when my original bumper disintegrated. I took it off and replaced with the small bumperetts. Very lightweight so shipping should not break the bank. Terry "A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan, stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!" Terry W. Himes JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory Dawn Spacecraft Team Rosetta Sequence Team Lead Phone: (818) 393-6261 Cell: (818) 653-8213 Fax: (818) 393-3147 [1]thimes@jpl.nasa.gov From: DeTomaso <[2]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of edracers--- via DeTomaso <[3]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Reply-To: "[4]edracers@aol.com" <[5]edracers@aol.com> Date: Monday, June 6, 2016 11:00 PM To: "[6]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com" <[7]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] L bumper issue Aloha My body guy spray painted the black L model front rubber bumper. Now the paint is bumpy, with cracks, and looks bad. My thought is to sand off the paint. But I do not know how to get the luster back to the black bumper. Any suggestions about this problem. Ed Kemper Honolulu References 1. mailto:thimes@jpl.nasa.gov 2. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 3. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 4. mailto:edracers@aol.com 5. mailto:edracers@aol.com 6. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 7. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
Hi Ed, If you do not have repair work to do on your bumper as Bill Taylor did in his excellent article, this is a method I have used with success on several occasions (which also uses SEM 39103 and SEM 77713 paint stripper). In your case you will need to strip off the cracking paint that is already on your bumper. You will want to remove the bumper before you attempt either stripping or sanding ...... so as not to damage the adjacent paint. (1) Use SEM 77713 to strip off the old paint, then clean the part well with soap and water. (2) When dry, sand the bumper with 320 grit sandpaper to give the next coat something to "bite into". (3) Wipe down (twice) with Prep Sol (get from your local automotive paint store) a pint will be plenty to do the job. (4) Carefully apply a "mist" coat of Bulldog Adhesion Promoter, followed in 5 minutes by another "light" coat. (5) Wait 10 minutes after applying the Bulldog Adhesion Promoter and then apply the SEM 39103 in several light coats. SEM products are also excellent for refreshing the color on interior plastic and vinyl parts. Good luck with your project . --Ed -----Original Message----- From: edracers@aol.com [mailto:edracers@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 2:00 AM To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] L bumper issue Aloha My body guy spray painted the black L model front rubber bumper. Now the paint is bumpy, with cracks, and looks bad. My thought is to sand off the paint. But I do not know how to get the luster back to the black bumper. Any suggestions about this problem. Ed Kemper Honolulu
I thought the same thing Forest. IndyDave -----Original Message----- From: Forest Goodhart [mailto:forestg@att.net] Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 12:46 AM To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Ken, It appeared as if the post was written by Scott but if you read to the end you will see that this was written by POCA President Michael Shortt. I've met Scott and I don't believe he could ever have written something as hateful as this. I have been hoping that Mr. Shortt had mellowed out but apparently not. Forest From: Ken Green via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To: "scottcouchman@yahoo.com" <scottcouchman@yahoo.com>; Rod Kunishige <rkunishige@hotmail.com> Cc: "<detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Monday, June 6, 2016 8:21 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Scott, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you really don't know Rod. I think Rod has always been a positive influence on the group in general, and every experience I have had with him has been positive. Rod has contributed as much or more to the community than anyone I know. If you every need a goodwill ambassador for the Pantera community, I think Rod would be high on the list. Ken __________________________________________________________________ From: Scott Couchman via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To: Rod Kunishige <rkunishige@hotmail.com> Cc: "<detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Monday, June 6, 2016 5:30 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum "You seem to be someone bound and determined to stir up trouble, up until now, I have tried to remain quiet, in your last diatribe, I think it was "until Michael Shortt stops messing with me" or something to that effect, you would stop having these fits of verbal and textual diarrhea. Frankly, I haven't given you another thought, you simply are not part of any equation on my worksheet. You simply are a waste of my time which could be better used for something to benefit the membership instead of dealing with what seems to be a clinically depressed, anti social personality type addicted to drama. That's changed, at the next BOD meeting I will be seeking to censure you as a member for violating our policies, for sharing BOD working emails and for not working within channels. I believe in an earlier email, Ed made the process very clear, go through your Chapter President or contact one of us directly, instead of posting your failures and inability to comprehend structure and civility. If you make another very poor decision to continue these actions, I will seek a second censure in 30 days and ask to remove you from this club. I am not the only one tried of your behavior, there are enough votes now in place to secure both outcomes. This is the last time that I will ask you to become a team player and use your energies to help make POCA a better club instead of trying to destroy it from within. Michael Shortt President POCA" Wow! Really? I thought this was a car club? On Jun 6, 2016, at 8:42 AM, Rod Kunishige <[1][1]rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote: Am I to be removed from the POCA? Rod __________________________________________________________________ From: [2][2]michaelsavga@gmail.com Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 09:34:45 -0400 Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum To: [3][3]rkunishige@hotmail.com CC: [4][4]jpoca2@hotmail.com; [5][5]JDeRyke@aol.com; [6][6]MBGlobalSc@aol.com; [7][7]jb841@cox.net; [8][8]RREIDCPA@aol.com; [9][9]paso750@gmail.com; [10][10]qrtlow@gmail.com; [11][11]edducati@mac.com Mr. Kunishige, It appears the theme of a nicer, more friendly, and organized POCA which operates through channels escapes you. It also appears a sitting BOD member is sharing BOD ONLY emails with you, that member should know that when I find them out, I will put forth a motion to censure them for violating BOD policy. Since you are not an elected member of the BOD, you are not entitled to our work emails, discussions or methodologies used to arrive at how we do business, once formatted, discussed amongst ourselves, these same issues are put forth in an agenda, discussed during an Open BOD meeting where all members can hear how we take care of business. I think with the exception of the last 3 minutes of the last BOD meeting, it was an excellent example of how civil discourse can happen even between people with disparate points of view. It is called a process, nothing happens by itself, I think the last 10 years of POCA pretty much proves that point. In regard to your past, an inability to maintain a job or to operate a business successfully relates to our situation how? While owning a toy store would be a dream for somebody like me, everybody knows that 4 out of 5 new businesses fail in the first year and of those, 4 out of 5 will never see a fifth year, so your chance of still operating a toy store for five years was only 10% at best. Here is why most new businesses fail. 1 Incompetence 46 % Emotional Pricing Living too high for the business Nonpayment of taxes No knowledge of pricing Lack of planning No knowledge of financing No experience in record-keeping 2 Unbalanced Experience or Lack of Managerial Experience 30 % Poor credit granting practices Expansion too rapid Inadequate borrowing practices 3 Lack of Experiences in line of goods or services 11 % Carry inadequate inventory No knowledge of suppliers Wasted advertising budget 5 Neglect, fraud, disaster 1 % Nobody judges you, we have all had failures, if you don't try, that's the biggest failure of all. You seem to be someone bound and determined to stir up trouble, up until now, I have tried to remain quiet, in your last diatribe, I think it was "until Michael Shortt stops messing with me" or something to that effect, you would stop having these fits of verbal and textual diarrhea. Frankly, I haven't given you another thought, you simply are not part of any equation on my worksheet. You simply are a waste of my time which could be better used for something to benefit the membership instead of dealing with what seems to be a clinically depressed, anti social personality type addicted to drama. That's changed, at the next BOD meeting I will be seeking to censure you as a member for violating our policies, for sharing BOD working emails and for not working within channels. I believe in an earlier email, Ed made the process very clear, go through your Chapter President or contact one of us directly, instead of posting your failures and inability to comprehend structure and civility. If you make another very poor decision to continue these actions, I will seek a second censure in 30 days and ask to remove you from this club. I am not the only one tried of your behavior, there are enough votes now in place to secure both outcomes. This is the last time that I will ask you to become a team player and use your energies to help make POCA a better club instead of trying to destroy it from within. Michael Shortt President POCA This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 6:22 AM, Ed Mendez <[12][12]edducati@mac.com> wrote: What part of "the email list should not be used to discuss POCA business", "bring your grievances to your chapter president", and "take it offline" did you not understand? By you copying members and non members of POCA on this email list with your grievances, and personal issues with Michael Shortt; you are placing the whole club in a negative light. This is adversely effecting the clubs ability to recruit new members. Copying the BOD. Kind regards, Ed > On 6/06/2016, at 10:11, Rod Kunishige <[13][13]rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Ed Menedez, > > You say that facts are clearly important to you. > > So, let me quote you some snippets taken directly from MS May 16, 2016 > email Subject: Newsletter and Profiles printing/design henceforth: > > O/ Meanwhile, as a part of this change will also come full color > printing on all pages in both the Newsletter / Profiles, a new printer, > and mailing partner. > > O/ The existing printer will not print anything else for POCA > after the June newsletter. > > O/ Your new printing partner is PrintingCenterUSA, > > O/ effective immediately we will begin to adopt layout > designs/templa tes which will dedicate 20% of the total space to > advertising content display. > the Newsletter needs to be 32 total pages each month, 5 pages in total > space needs to be evenly distributed in 1/8 page, 1/4, 1/3. & 1/2 page > horitzontal ads and 1/2 page vertical ads plus a full page ad. > > O/ You will need to coordinate with Ed with proofs so that he will > have the final say on ad placement before adthing is printed. > > O/ The vendor listings are to be removed. They will have to buy > ads to reach our memb ers. > > O/ We also need to use ONLY the newly revised/cleaned up POCA Road > Script and POCA crest. > > Completely detailed specifications are also set as fixed space > allocations for both pubs without consideration for content > adjustments. > > My view is that these are clearly directives not suggestions to > consider to fellow POCA Board Members. > > Ed, should you wish to challenge these facts, Ill be most pleased to > publish the email in its entirety so everyone may view it within its > full context. > NOTE: There seems to be a need to know the qualifications of the > writers who post here. So, let me explain that my career of 35 years > was in Information Technology ending as VP of IT. I also owned and > operated a mailing house directing publications in the SF Bay Area for > 4 years and owned and operated a 9,000 sq ft independent Toy Store for > 5 years. Hope this helps the readers who wish to know my background. I > LOVE this club and vendors. Its members have helped me throughout the > decades. > Rod > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > [14][14]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > [15][15]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. -- Michael L. Shortt Savannah, Georgia [16]www.michaelshortt.com [17][16]michael@michaelshortt.com 912-232-9390 This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you References 1. mailto:[17]rkunishige@hotmail.com 2. mailto:[18]michaelsavga@gmail.com 3. mailto:[19]rkunishige@hotmail.com 4. mailto:[20]jpoca2@hotmail.com 5. mailto:[21]JDeRyke@aol.com 6. mailto:[22]MBGlobalSc@aol.com 7. mailto:[23]jb841@cox.net 8. mailto:[24]RREIDCPA@aol.com 9. mailto:[25]paso750@gmail.com 10. mailto:[26]qrtlow@gmail.com 11. mailto:[27]edducati@mac.com 12. mailto:[28]edducati@mac.com 13. mailto:[29]rkunishige@hotmail.com 14. mailto:[30]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 15. [31]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 16. [32]http://www.michaelshortt.com/ 17. mailto:[33]michael@michaelshortt.com _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [34]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [35]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 2. mailto:michaelsavga@gmail.com 3. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 4. mailto:jpoca2@hotmail.com 5. mailto:JDeRyke@aol.com 6. mailto:MBGlobalSc@aol.com 7. mailto:jb841@cox.net 8. mailto:RREIDCPA@aol.com 9. mailto:paso750@gmail.com 10. mailto:qrtlow@gmail.com 11. mailto:edducati@mac.com 12. mailto:edducati@mac.com 13. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 14. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 15. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 16. mailto:michael@michaelshortt.com 17. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 18. mailto:michaelsavga@gmail.com 19. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 20. mailto:jpoca2@hotmail.com 21. mailto:JDeRyke@aol.com 22. mailto:MBGlobalSc@aol.com 23. mailto:jb841@cox.net 24. mailto:RREIDCPA@aol.com 25. mailto:paso750@gmail.com 26. mailto:qrtlow@gmail.com 27. mailto:edducati@mac.com 28. mailto:edducati@mac.com 29. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 30. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 31. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 32. http://www.michaelshortt.com/ 33. mailto:michael@michaelshortt.com 34. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 35. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
participants (23)
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Asa Jay Laughton
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B Hower
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Charles McCall
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Dave
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Ed Lyerly
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Ed Mendez
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edracers@aol.com
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Effie Richards
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Forest Goodhart
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Himes, Terry (397C)
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Jack Donahue
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James coyne
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jderyke@aol.com
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Ken Green
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Konrad Szwab
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Larry - Ohio Time
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Mark Charlton
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mark skwarek
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msm@portata.com
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Robert Pink
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scottcouchman@yahoo.com
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The DeTomaso Registry Guy
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Will Kooiman