Re: [DeTomaso] Rear Window Cracked.....again
Dear Rob, From what little I know..... This is the first time I have heard of this problem. I suppose that if the poor Pantera is eaten up with secret rust, then it could flex enough to break the glass, but that would a first. There are a lot of rusty Panteras that don't break the rear glass. Perhaps there is some abnormality of the manufacturing process so that the fit is too tight or that there may be some small offending ridge of weld or metal that is stressing the glass. I would suggest that the simplest approach would be to pull the glass and closely inspect with your glass man and re-install if no problems are found. Warmest regards, Chuck Engles On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 8:22 AM, Rob Dumoulin wrote:
When I got 1488 eight years ago, the back window was cracked from right above where the driver side seat belt mount bolt goes through the back trim panel to the roof line. This was a single crack with no side "spider" cracks deviating from it. I have no theories of how the glass was cracked before I purchased the car.
During the restoration, I bought a new gasket and had a piece of automotive glass cut using the original as a template and installed by a friend who is in the glass business. The car has an adjustable rear cross member brace installed over the ZF as many of us have and the car was sitting on jack stands with the wheels off for 2 weeks prior to the wheels being reinstalled and taken off the stands to put the new windshield and back glass in.
The car has been drive on one long trip (to SE Pantera Prez Tim Clinger's house), a few docile cruises, and a few sporty ones since the install. No major driving events and only a few time in the 90-100 MPH range.
The new back glass cracked again but this time it cracked more inboard from the first crack. The new crack starts just above the driver side frame rail and has 5 "spider" cracks fanning out from the bottom point of origin to the top.
My glass guy says he may have made the fit too tight and will replace it no charge. I'm looking for any other theories that could explain it before I put another one in and it breaks again. Is it possible that the car being on jack stands could have tweaked the car enough to cause the glass to bind as it re-tweaked to its natural state?
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Given it has cracked in somewhat the same place, I'd guess that the opening is not flat - that there is a shift to the front or the rear where the crack originates. My logic - glass is pretty strong as long as you don't bend it - I would guess the challenge is it is being bent along where there it cracked. I'd get a straight piece of wood and see how straight the edges of the opening are. It may be possible to tweak them a bit by bending the flange forward or backward a bit. I know when I looked at the opening behind the motor there is about 1/8 inch flex from one side to the other, with the middle portion being farther back than the two edges. I am in hopes the rubber I bought will have enough flex to accommodate this. Hope that helps. Stephen Nelson -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of cengles@cox.net Sent: Monday, July 25, 2016 6:57 AM To: rob@dumoulins.net Cc: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Rear Window Cracked.....again Dear Rob, From what little I know..... This is the first time I have heard of this problem. I suppose that if the poor Pantera is eaten up with secret rust, then it could flex enough to break the glass, but that would a first. There are a lot of rusty Panteras that don't break the rear glass. Perhaps there is some abnormality of the manufacturing process so that the fit is too tight or that there may be some small offending ridge of weld or metal that is stressing the glass. I would suggest that the simplest approach would be to pull the glass and closely inspect with your glass man and re-install if no problems are found. Warmest regards, Chuck Engles On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 8:22 AM, Rob Dumoulin wrote:
When I got 1488 eight years ago, the back window was cracked from right above where the driver side seat belt mount bolt goes through the back trim panel to the roof line. This was a single crack with no side "spider" cracks deviating from it. I have no theories of how the glass was cracked before I purchased the car.
During the restoration, I bought a new gasket and had a piece of automotive glass cut using the original as a template and installed by a friend who is in the glass business. The car has an adjustable rear cross member brace installed over the ZF as many of us have and the car was sitting on jack stands with the wheels off for 2 weeks prior to the wheels being reinstalled and taken off the stands to put the new windshield and back glass in.
The car has been drive on one long trip (to SE Pantera Prez Tim Clinger's house), a few docile cruises, and a few sporty ones since the install. No major driving events and only a few time in the 90-100 MPH range.
The new back glass cracked again but this time it cracked more inboard from the first crack. The new crack starts just above the driver side frame rail and has 5 "spider" cracks fanning out from the bottom point of origin to the top.
My glass guy says he may have made the fit too tight and will replace it no charge. I'm looking for any other theories that could explain it before I put another one in and it breaks again. Is it possible that the car being on jack stands could have tweaked the car enough to cause the glass to bind as it re-tweaked to its natural state?
------------------------------
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"I suppose that if the poor Pantera is eaten up with secret rust ... " We can rule that one out. Not a speck of rust after a full body strip and cavity search, even where the sun don't shine. My glass guy admits he might have cut it too tight and will make it a little looser next time, but these are new gaskets from Roland and I suspect it would have had to have been a really tight fit to begin with to crack. It was my understanding that the back glass is perfectly flat. Others have implied that may not be the case. If it is supposed to have a slight contour, that could be my problem. Thanks to everybody that responded. Rob On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 9:57 AM, <cengles@cox.net> wrote:
Dear Rob,
From what little I know.....
This is the first time I have heard of this problem. I suppose that if the poor Pantera is eaten up with secret rust, then it could flex enough to break the glass, but that would a first. There are a lot of rusty Panteras that don't break the rear glass.
Perhaps there is some abnormality of the manufacturing process so that the fit is too tight or that there may be some small offending ridge of weld or metal that is stressing the glass.
I would suggest that the simplest approach would be to pull the glass and closely inspect with your glass man and re-install if no problems are found.
Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 8:22 AM, Rob Dumoulin wrote:
When I got 1488 eight years ago, the back window was cracked from right
above where the driver side seat belt mount bolt goes through the back trim panel to the roof line. This was a single crack with no side "spider" cracks deviating from it. I have no theories of how the glass was cracked before I purchased the car.
During the restoration, I bought a new gasket and had a piece of automotive glass cut using the original as a template and installed by a friend who is in the glass business. The car has an adjustable rear cross member brace installed over the ZF as many of us have and the car was sitting on jack stands with the wheels off for 2 weeks prior to the wheels being reinstalled and taken off the stands to put the new windshield and back glass in.
The car has been drive on one long trip (to SE Pantera Prez Tim Clinger's house), a few docile cruises, and a few sporty ones since the install. No major driving events and only a few time in the 90-100 MPH range.
The new back glass cracked again but this time it cracked more inboard from the first crack. The new crack starts just above the driver side frame rail and has 5 "spider" cracks fanning out from the bottom point of origin to the top.
My glass guy says he may have made the fit too tight and will replace it no charge. I'm looking for any other theories that could explain it before I put another one in and it breaks again. Is it possible that the car being on jack stands could have tweaked the car enough to cause the glass to bind as it re-tweaked to its natural state?
------------------------------
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"I suppose that if the poor Pantera is eaten up with secret rust ... " A We can rule that one out. Not a speck of rust after a full body strip and cavity search, even where the sun don't shine. My glass guy admits he might have cut it too tight and will make it a little looser next time, but these are new gaskets from Roland and I suspect it would have had to have been a really tight fit to begin with to crack.A It was my understanding that the back glass is perfectly flat.A Others have implied that may not be the case. If it is supposed to have a slight contour, that could be my problem. Thanks to everybody that responded.A RobA On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 9:57 AM, <[1]cengles@cox.net> wrote: Dear Rob, A A A A A A From what little I know..... A A A A A A This is the first time I have heard of this problem.A I suppose that if the poor Pantera is eaten up with secret rust, then it could flex enough to break the glass, but that would a first.A A There are a lot of rusty Panteras that don't break the rear glass. A A A A A A Perhaps there is some abnormality of the manufacturing process so that the fit is too tight or that there may be some small offending ridge of weld or metal that is stressing the glass. A A A A A A A I would suggest that the simplest approach would be to pull the glass and closely inspect with your glass man and re-install if no problems are found. A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A Warmest regards, Chuck Engles On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 8:22 AM, Rob Dumoulin wrote: When I got 1488 eight years ago, the back window was cracked from right above where the driver side seat belt mount bolt goes through the back trim panel to the roof line. This was a single crack with no sideA "spider" cracks deviating from it.A I have no theories of how the glass was cracked before I purchased the car. During the restoration, I bought a new gasket and had a piece of automotive glass cut using the original as a template and installed by a friend who is in the glass business. The car has an adjustable rear cross member brace installed over the ZF as many of us have and the car was sitting on jack stands with the wheels off for 2 weeks prior to the wheels being reinstalled and taken off the stands to put the new windshield and back glass in. The car has been drive on one long trip (to SE Pantera Prez Tim Clinger's house), a few docile cruises, and a few sporty ones since the install. No major driving events and only a few time in the 90-100 MPH range. The new back glass cracked again but this time it cracked more inboard from the first crack. The new crack starts just above the driver side frame rail and has 5 "spider" cracks fanning out from the bottom point of origin to the top. My glass guy says he may have made the fit too tight and will replace it no charge. I'm looking for any other theories that could explain it before I put another one in and it breaks again.A Is it possible that the car being on jack stands could have tweaked the car enough to cause the glass to bind as it re-tweaked to its natural state? A A A ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [2]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:cengles@cox.net 2. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 3. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
The rear glass IS perfectly flat. I've changed many of these and the ones guys have cut locally always seem to be cut a tad later than stock. What did your guys use for a template? Leslie A. Gray
On Jul 25, 2016, at 11:48 AM, Rob Dumoulin <rob@dumoulins.net> wrote:
"I suppose that if the poor Pantera is eaten up with secret rust ... " A We can rule that one out. Not a speck of rust after a full body strip and cavity search, even where the sun don't shine. My glass guy admits he might have cut it too tight and will make it a little looser next time, but these are new gaskets from Roland and I suspect it would have had to have been a really tight fit to begin with to crack.A It was my understanding that the back glass is perfectly flat.A Others have implied that may not be the case. If it is supposed to have a slight contour, that could be my problem. Thanks to everybody that responded.A RobA On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 9:57 AM, <[1]cengles@cox.net> wrote:
Dear Rob, A A A A A A From what little I know..... A A A A A A This is the first time I have heard of this problem.A I suppose that if the poor Pantera is eaten up with secret rust, then it could flex enough to break the glass, but that would a first.A A There are a lot of rusty Panteras that don't break the rear glass. A A A A A A Perhaps there is some abnormality of the manufacturing process so that the fit is too tight or that there may be some small offending ridge of weld or metal that is stressing the glass. A A A A A A A I would suggest that the simplest approach would be to pull the glass and closely inspect with your glass man and re-install if no problems are found. A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 8:22 AM, Rob Dumoulin wrote:
When I got 1488 eight years ago, the back window was cracked from right above where the driver side seat belt mount bolt goes through the back trim panel to the roof line. This was a single crack with no sideA "spider" cracks deviating from it.A I have no theories of how the glass was cracked before I purchased the car. During the restoration, I bought a new gasket and had a piece of automotive glass cut using the original as a template and installed by a friend who is in the glass business. The car has an adjustable rear cross member brace installed over the ZF as many of us have and the car was sitting on jack stands with the wheels off for 2 weeks prior to the wheels being reinstalled and taken off the stands to put the new windshield and back glass in. The car has been drive on one long trip (to SE Pantera Prez Tim Clinger's house), a few docile cruises, and a few sporty ones since the install. No major driving events and only a few time in the 90-100 MPH range. The new back glass cracked again but this time it cracked more inboard from the first crack. The new crack starts just above the driver side frame rail and has 5 "spider" cracks fanning out from the bottom point of origin to the top. My glass guy says he may have made the fit too tight and will replace it no charge. I'm looking for any other theories that could explain it before I put another one in and it breaks again.A Is it possible that the car being on jack stands could have tweaked the car enough to cause the glass to bind as it re-tweaked to its natural state?
A A A ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [2]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
References
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He pulled the old one out and used it as a template. I can imagine it could have been slightly larger and he said he would cut this one a bit smaller. You all have me hoping there may be an easily remedied imperfection in the window channel that caused it. Only way to figure it out now is to pull the window back out. I'll have that done when I install the Willwoods and adjustable upper rear control arms. Does anybody think it has anything to do with it being on jack stands prior to glass entry. When I do the brakes and rear suspension, it will be back on the same stands. Rob DuMoulin 904.476.8744 rob@dumoulins.net www.kbsi.co http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58 On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 3:05 PM, L GRAY <tipo874a@msn.com> wrote:
The rear glass IS perfectly flat. I've changed many of these and the ones guys have cut locally always seem to be cut a tad later than stock. What did your guys use for a template?
Leslie A. Gray
On Jul 25, 2016, at 11:48 AM, Rob Dumoulin <rob@dumoulins.net> wrote:
"I suppose that if the poor Pantera is eaten up with secret rust ... " A We can rule that one out. Not a speck of rust after a full body strip and cavity search, even where the sun don't shine. My glass guy admits he might have cut it too tight and will make it a little looser next time, but these are new gaskets from Roland and I suspect it would have had to have been a really tight fit to begin with to crack.A It was my understanding that the back glass is perfectly flat.A Others have implied that may not be the case. If it is supposed to have a slight contour, that could be my problem. Thanks to everybody that responded.A RobA On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 9:57 AM, <[1]cengles@cox.net> wrote:
Dear Rob, A A A A A A From what little I know..... A A A A A A This is the first time I have heard of this problem.A I suppose that if the poor Pantera is eaten up with secret rust, then it could flex enough to break the glass, but that would a first.A A There are a lot of rusty Panteras that don't break the rear glass. A A A A A A Perhaps there is some abnormality of the manufacturing process so that the fit is too tight or that there may be some small offending ridge of weld or metal that is stressing the glass. A A A A A A A I would suggest that the simplest approach would be to pull the glass and closely inspect with your glass man and re-install if no problems are found. A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 8:22 AM, Rob Dumoulin wrote:
When I got 1488 eight years ago, the back window was cracked from right above where the driver side seat belt mount bolt goes through the back trim panel to the roof line. This was a single crack with no sideA "spider" cracks deviating from it.A I have no theories of how the glass was cracked before I purchased the car. During the restoration, I bought a new gasket and had a piece of automotive glass cut using the original as a template and installed by a friend who is in the glass business. The car has an adjustable rear cross member brace installed over the ZF as many of us have and the car was sitting on jack stands with the wheels off for 2 weeks prior to the wheels being reinstalled and taken off the stands to put the new windshield and back glass in. The car has been drive on one long trip (to SE Pantera Prez Tim Clinger's house), a few docile cruises, and a few sporty ones since the install. No major driving events and only a few time in the 90-100 MPH range. The new back glass cracked again but this time it cracked more inboard from the first crack. The new crack starts just above the driver side frame rail and has 5 "spider" cracks fanning out from the bottom point of origin to the top. My glass guy says he may have made the fit too tight and will replace it no charge. I'm looking for any other theories that could explain it before I put another one in and it breaks again.A Is it possible that the car being on jack stands could have tweaked the car enough to cause the glass to bind as it re-tweaked to its natural state?
A A A ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [2]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
References
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A A cracked A A before I purchased the car. A A During the restoration, I bought a new gasket and had a piece of A A automotive A A glass cut using the original as a template and installed by a friend A A who is A A in the glass business. The car has an adjustable rear cross member A A brace A A installed over the ZF as many of us have and the car was sitting on A A jack A A stands with the wheels off for 2 weeks prior to the wheels being A A reinstalled and taken off the stands to put the new windshield and back A A glass in. A A The car has been drive on one long trip (to SE Pantera Prez Tim A A Clinger's A A house), a few docile cruises, and a few sporty ones since the install. A A No A A major driving events and only a few time in the 90-100 MPH range. A A The new back glass cracked again but this time it cracked more inboard A A from A A the first crack. The new crack starts just above the driver side
He pulled the old one out and used it as a template. I can imagine it could have been slightly larger and he said he would cut this one a bit smaller.A You all have me hoping there may be an easily remedied imperfection in the window channel that caused it.A Only way to figure it out now is to pull the window back out.A I'll have that done when I install the Willwoods and adjustable upper rear control arms. Does anybody think it has anything to do with it being on jack stands prior to glass entry. When I do the brakes and rear suspension, it will be back on the same stands. Rob DuMoulin 904.476.8744 [1]rob@dumoulins.net [2]www.kbsi.co [3]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58 On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 3:05 PM, L GRAY <[4]tipo874a@msn.com> wrote: The rear glass IS perfectly flat.A I've changed many of these and the ones guys have cut locally always seem to be cut a tad later than stock. A A A What did your guys use for a template? Leslie A. Gray > On Jul 25, 2016, at 11:48 AM, Rob Dumoulin <[5]rob@dumoulins.net> wrote: > >A A "I suppose that if the poor Pantera is eaten up with secret rust ... " >A A A >A A We can rule that one out. Not a speck of rust after a full body strip >A A and cavity search, even where the sun don't shine. >A A My glass guy admits he might have cut it too tight and will make it a >A A little looser next time, but these are new gaskets from Roland and I >A A suspect it would have had to have been a really tight fit to begin with >A A to crack.A >A A It was my understanding that the back glass is perfectly flat.AA Others >A A have implied that may not be the case. If it is supposed to have a >A A slight contour, that could be my problem. >A A Thanks to everybody that responded.A >A A RobA >A A On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 9:57 AM, <[1][6]cengles@cox.net> wrote: > >A A A Dear Rob, >A A A AA AA AA AA AA A From what little I know..... >A A A AA AA AA AA AA A This is the first time I have heard of this >A A A problem.AA I suppose that if the poor Pantera is eaten up with >A A A secret rust, then it could flex enough to break the glass, but that >A A A would a first.AA A There are a lot of rusty Panteras that don't >A A A break the rear glass. >A A A AA AA AA AA AA A Perhaps there is some abnormality of the >A A A manufacturing process so that the fit is too tight or that there may >A A A be some small offending ridge of weld or metal that is stressing the >A A A glass. >A A A AA AA AA AA AA AA A I would suggest that the simplest approach would >A A A be to pull the glass and closely inspect with your glass man and >A A A re-install if no problems are found. >A A A AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA A Warmest >A A A regards, Chuck Engles > >A A On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 8:22 AM, Rob Dumoulin wrote: > >A A When I got 1488 eight years ago, the back window was cracked from right >A A above where the driver side seat belt mount bolt goes through the back >A A trim >A A panel to the roof line. This was a single crack with no sideAA "spider" >A A cracks deviating from it.AA I have no theories of how the glass was frame
A A rail A A and has 5 "spider" cracks fanning out from the bottom point of origin A A to A A the top. A A My glass guy says he may have made the fit too tight and will replace A A it no A A charge. I'm looking for any other theories that could explain it before A A I
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>A A put another one in and it breaks again.AA Is it possible that the car >A A being >A A on jack stands could have tweaked the car enough to cause the glass to >A A bind >A A as it re-tweaked to its natural state? > >A A A AA AA A ------------------------------ >A A A _______________________________________________ >A A A Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA >A A A Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes >A A A DeTomaso mailing list >A A A [2][7]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com >A A A [3][8]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >A A A To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, >A A A etc.) use the links above. >A A A Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward >A A A any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of >A A A the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an >A A A archive or approve the archiving of list messages. > > References > >A A 1. mailto:[9]cengles@cox.net >A A 2. mailto:[10]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com >A A 3. [11]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:rob@dumoulins.net 2. http://www.kbsi.co/ 3. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58 4. mailto:tipo874a@msn.com 5. mailto:rob@dumoulins.net 6. mailto:cengles@cox.net 7. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 8. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 9. mailto:cengles@cox.net 10. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 11. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 12. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 13. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
Definitely should not crack due to jacking. If jacking caused it either the glass is wrong, the channel is defective or the car is flexing due to rust--and you already know the car is solid.... Even rusty cars don't break the back glass. The problem has to lie elsewhere. I saw a side glass shatter due to a tiny screw that contacted the glass from the edge. The slightest direct focused pressure on the edge of a windshield or auto glass will shatter it. I broke my new cobra windshield that way, it was ever so slightly larger than the old one which was broken by a rock. Putting it all back together, a screw that didn't touch the old glass touched the new one, and BAM!!!! Mike Sent from my iPad
On Jul 25, 2016, at 1:10 PM, Rob Dumoulin <rob@dumoulins.net> wrote:
He pulled the old one out and used it as a template. I can imagine it could have been slightly larger and he said he would cut this one a bit smaller.A You all have me hoping there may be an easily remedied imperfection in the window channel that caused it.A Only way to figure it out now is to pull the window back out.A I'll have that done when I install the Willwoods and adjustable upper rear control arms. Does anybody think it has anything to do with it being on jack stands prior to glass entry. When I do the brakes and rear suspension, it will be back on the same stands.
Rob DuMoulin 904.476.8744 [1]rob@dumoulins.net [2]www.kbsi.co [3]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58 On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 3:05 PM, L GRAY <[4]tipo874a@msn.com> wrote:
The rear glass IS perfectly flat.A I've changed many of these and the ones guys have cut locally always seem to be cut a tad later than stock. A A A What did your guys use for a template? Leslie A. Gray
On Jul 25, 2016, at 11:48 AM, Rob Dumoulin <[5]rob@dumoulins.net> wrote:
A A "I suppose that if the poor Pantera is eaten up with secret rust ... " A A A A A We can rule that one out. Not a speck of rust after a full body strip A A and cavity search, even where the sun don't shine. A A My glass guy admits he might have cut it too tight and will make it a A A little looser next time, but these are new gaskets from Roland and I A A suspect it would have had to have been a really tight fit to begin with A A to crack.A A A It was my understanding that the back glass is perfectly flat.AA Others A A have implied that may not be the case. If it is supposed to have a A A slight contour, that could be my problem. A A Thanks to everybody that responded.A A A RobA A A On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 9:57 AM, <[1][6]cengles@cox.net> wrote:
A A A Dear Rob, A A A AA AA AA AA AA A From what little I know..... A A A AA AA AA AA AA A This is the first time I have heard of this A A A problem.AA I suppose that if the poor Pantera is eaten up with A A A secret rust, then it could flex enough to break the glass, but that A A A would a first.AA A There are a lot of rusty Panteras that don't A A A break the rear glass. A A A AA AA AA AA AA A Perhaps there is some abnormality of the A A A manufacturing process so that the fit is too tight or that there may A A A be some small offending ridge of weld or metal that is stressing the A A A glass. A A A AA AA AA AA AA AA A I would suggest that the simplest approach would A A A be to pull the glass and closely inspect with your glass man and A A A re-install if no problems are found. A A A AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA A Warmest A A A regards, Chuck Engles
A A On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 8:22 AM, Rob Dumoulin wrote:
A A When I got 1488 eight years ago, the back window was cracked from right A A above where the driver side seat belt mount bolt goes through the back A A trim A A panel to the roof line. This was a single crack with no sideAA "spider" A A cracks deviating from it.AA I have no theories of how the glass was
A A cracked A A before I purchased the car. A A During the restoration, I bought a new gasket and had a piece of A A automotive A A glass cut using the original as a template and installed by a friend A A who is A A in the glass business. The car has an adjustable rear cross member A A brace A A installed over the ZF as many of us have and the car was sitting on A A jack A A stands with the wheels off for 2 weeks prior to the wheels being A A reinstalled and taken off the stands to put the new windshield and back A A glass in. A A The car has been drive on one long trip (to SE Pantera Prez Tim A A Clinger's A A house), a few docile cruises, and a few sporty ones since the install. A A No A A major driving events and only a few time in the 90-100 MPH range. A A The new back glass cracked again but this time it cracked more inboard A A from A A the first crack. The new crack starts just above the driver side frame A A rail A A and has 5 "spider" cracks fanning out from the bottom point of origin A A to A A the top. A A My glass guy says he may have made the fit too tight and will replace A A it no A A charge. I'm looking for any other theories that could explain it before A A I
A A put another one in and it breaks again.AA Is it possible that the car A A being A A on jack stands could have tweaked the car enough to cause the glass to A A bind A A as it re-tweaked to its natural state?
A A A AA AA A ------------------------------ A A A _______________________________________________ A A A Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA A A A Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes A A A DeTomaso mailing list A A A [2][7]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com A A A [3][8]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso A A A To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, A A A etc.) use the links above. A A A Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward A A A any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of A A A the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an A A A archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
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1. mailto:rob@dumoulins.net 2. http://www.kbsi.co/ 3. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58 4. mailto:tipo874a@msn.com 5. mailto:rob@dumoulins.net 6. mailto:cengles@cox.net 7. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 8. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 9. mailto:cengles@cox.net 10. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 11. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 12. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 13. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________
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Rob, I dunno what the true cause is of window-cracking is in a car 3000+ miles away, but as an interim fix, cut a rear window out of guaranteed-to-not crack Lucite or some other transparent plastic. Larry Stock in Carson City has been selling these for a decade. In Panteras that experienced fires (the window is part of the firewall), the glass rear window breaks within seconds so its not like you're trading any real protection. FWIW- J DEryke -----Original Message----- From: Rob Dumoulin <rob@dumoulins.net> To: L GRAY <tipo874a@msn.com> Cc: Pantera Mail List <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Mon, Jul 25, 2016 1:11 pm Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Rear Window Cracked.....again He pulled the old one out and used it as a template. I can imagine it could have been slightly larger and he said he would cut this one a bit smaller.A You all have me hoping there may be an easily remedied imperfection in the window channel that caused it.A Only way to figure it out now is to pull the window back out.A I'll have that done when I install the Willwoods and adjustable upper rear control arms. Does anybody think it has anything to do with it being on jack stands prior to glass entry. When I do the brakes and rear suspension, it will be back on the same stands. Rob DuMoulin 904.476.8744 [1]rob@dumoulins.net [2]www.kbsi.co [3]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58 On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 3:05 PM, L GRAY <[4]tipo874a@msn.com> wrote: The rear glass IS perfectly flat.A I've changed many of these and the ones guys have cut locally always seem to be cut a tad later than stock. A A A What did your guys use for a template? Leslie A. Gray > On Jul 25, 2016, at 11:48 AM, Rob Dumoulin <[5]rob@dumoulins.net> wrote: > >A A "I suppose that if the poor Pantera is eaten up with secret rust ... " >A A A >A A We can rule that one out. Not a speck of rust after a full body strip >A A and cavity search, even where the sun don't shine. >A A My glass guy admits he might have cut it too tight and will make it a >A A little looser next time, but these are new gaskets from Roland and I >A A suspect it would have had to have been a really tight fit to begin with >A A to crack.A >A A It was my understanding that the back glass is perfectly flat.AA Others >A A have implied that may not be the case. If it is supposed to have a >A A slight contour, that could be my problem. >A A Thanks to everybody that responded.A >A A RobA >A A On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 9:57 AM, <[1][6]cengles@cox.net> wrote: > >A A A Dear Rob, >A A A AA AA AA AA AA A From what little I know..... >A A A AA AA AA AA AA A This is the first time I have heard of this >A A A problem.AA I suppose that if the poor Pantera is eaten up with >A A A secret rust, then it could flex enough to break the glass, but that
A A A would a first.AA A There are a lot of rusty Panteras that don't >A A A break the rear glass. >A A A AA AA AA AA AA A Perhaps there is some abnormality of the >A A A manufacturing process so that the fit is too tight or that there may >A A A be some small offending ridge of weld or metal that is stressing the >A A A glass. >A A A AA AA AA AA AA AA A I would suggest that the simplest approach would >A A A be to pull the glass and closely inspect with your glass man and >A A A re-install if no problems are found. >A A A AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA A Warmest >A A A regards, Chuck Engles > >A A On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 8:22 AM, Rob Dumoulin wrote: > >A A When I got 1488 eight years ago, the back window was cracked from right >A A above where the driver side seat belt mount bolt goes through the back >A A trim >A A panel to the roof line. This was a single crack with no sideAA "spider" >A A cracks deviating from it.AA I have no theories of how the glass was
A A cracked A A before I purchased the car. A A During the restoration, I bought a new gasket and had a piece of A A automotive A A glass cut using the original as a template and installed by a friend A A who is A A in the glass business. The car has an adjustable rear cross member A A brace A A installed over the ZF as many of us have and the car was sitting on A A jack A A stands with the wheels off for 2 weeks prior to the wheels being A A reinstalled and taken off the stands to put the new windshield and back A A glass in. A A The car has been drive on one long trip (to SE Pantera Prez Tim A A Clinger's A A house), a few docile cruises, and a few sporty ones since the install. A A No A A major driving events and only a few time in the 90-100 MPH range. A A The new back glass cracked again but this time it cracked more inboard A A from A A the first crack. The new crack starts just above the driver side frame A A rail A A and has 5 "spider" cracks fanning out from the bottom point of origin A A to A A the top. A A My glass guy says he may have made the fit too tight and will replace A A it no A A charge. I'm looking for any other theories that could explain it before A A I
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On Jul 25, 2016, at 11:48 AM, Rob Dumoulin <[5][5]rob@dumoulins.net> wrote:
A A "I suppose that if the poor Pantera is eaten up with secret rust ... " A A A A A We can rule that one out. Not a speck of rust after a full
A A and cavity search, even where the sun don't shine. A A My glass guy admits he might have cut it too tight and will make it a A A little looser next time, but these are new gaskets from Roland and I A A suspect it would have had to have been a really tight fit to begin with A A to crack.A A A It was my understanding that the back glass is perfectly flat.AA Others A A have implied that may not be the case. If it is supposed to have a A A slight contour, that could be my problem. A A Thanks to everybody that responded.A A A RobA A A On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 9:57 AM, <[1][6][6]cengles@cox.net> wrote:
A A A Dear Rob, A A A AA AA AA AA AA A From what little I know..... A A A AA AA AA AA AA A This is the first time I have heard of this A A A problem.AA I suppose that if the poor Pantera is eaten up with A A A secret rust, then it could flex enough to break the glass, but that A A A would a first.AA A There are a lot of rusty Panteras that don't A A A break the rear glass. A A A AA AA AA AA AA A Perhaps there is some abnormality of
A A A manufacturing process so that the fit is too tight or that
A A A be some small offending ridge of weld or metal that is stressing the A A A glass. A A A AA AA AA AA AA AA A I would suggest that the simplest approach would A A A be to pull the glass and closely inspect with your glass man and A A A re-install if no problems are found. A A A AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA A Warmest A A A regards, Chuck Engles
A A On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 8:22 AM, Rob Dumoulin wrote:
A A When I got 1488 eight years ago, the back window was cracked from right A A above where the driver side seat belt mount bolt goes through
A A trim A A panel to the roof line. This was a single crack with no sideAA "spider" A A cracks deviating from it.AA I have no theories of how the glass was A A cracked A A before I purchased the car. A A During the restoration, I bought a new gasket and had a piece of A A automotive A A glass cut using the original as a template and installed by a friend A A who is A A in the glass business. The car has an adjustable rear cross member A A brace A A installed over the ZF as many of us have and the car was sitting on A A jack A A stands with the wheels off for 2 weeks prior to the wheels being A A reinstalled and taken off the stands to put the new windshield and back A A glass in. A A The car has been drive on one long trip (to SE Pantera Prez Tim A A Clinger's A A house), a few docile cruises, and a few sporty ones since the install. A A No A A major driving events and only a few time in the 90-100 MPH range. A A The new back glass cracked again but this time it cracked more inboard A A from A A the first crack. The new crack starts just above the driver side
A A rail A A and has 5 "spider" cracks fanning out from the bottom point of origin A A to A A the top. A A My glass guy says he may have made the fit too tight and will replace A A it no A A charge. I'm looking for any other theories that could explain it before A A I A A put another one in and it breaks again.AA Is it possible that
A A being A A on jack stands could have tweaked the car enough to cause the glass to A A bind A A as it re-tweaked to its natural state?
A A A AA AA A ------------------------------ A A A _______________________________________________ A A A Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA A A A Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes A A A DeTomaso mailing list A A A [2][7][7]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com A A A [3][8][8]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso A A A To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, A A A etc.) use the links above. A A A Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward A A A any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of A A A the list. They also grant the list owner permission to
A A A archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
References
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>A A put another one in and it breaks again.AA Is it possible that the car >A A being >A A on jack stands could have tweaked the car enough to cause the glass to >A A bind >A A as it re-tweaked to its natural state? > >A A A AA AA A ------------------------------ >A A A _______________________________________________ >A A A Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA >A A A Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes >A A A DeTomaso mailing list >A A A [2][7]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com >A A A [3][8]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >A A A To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, >A A A etc.) use the links above. >A A A Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward >A A A any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of >A A A the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an >A A A archive or approve the archiving of list messages. > > References > >A A 1. mailto:[9]cengles@cox.net >A A 2. mailto:[10]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com >A A 3. [11]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:rob@dumoulins.net 2. http://www.kbsi.co/ 3. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58 4. mailto:tipo874a@msn.com 5. mailto:rob@dumoulins.net 6. mailto:cengles@cox.net 7. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 8. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 9. mailto:cengles@cox.net 10. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 11. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 12. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 13. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Rob, I dunno what the true cause is of window-cracking is in a car 3000+ miles away, but as an interim fix, cut a rear window out of guaranteed-to-not crack Lucite or some other transparent plastic. Larry Stock in Carson City has been selling these for a decade. In Panteras that experienced fires (the window is part of the firewall), the glass rear window breaks within seconds so its not like you're trading any real protection. FWIW- J DEryke -----Original Message----- From: Rob Dumoulin <rob@dumoulins.net> To: L GRAY <tipo874a@msn.com> Cc: Pantera Mail List <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Mon, Jul 25, 2016 1:11 pm Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Rear Window Cracked.....again He pulled the old one out and used it as a template. I can imagine it could have been slightly larger and he said he would cut this one a bit smaller.A You all have me hoping there may be an easily remedied imperfection in the window channel that caused it.A Only way to figure it out now is to pull the window back out.A I'll have that done when I install the Willwoods and adjustable upper rear control arms. Does anybody think it has anything to do with it being on jack stands prior to glass entry. When I do the brakes and rear suspension, it will be back on the same stands. Rob DuMoulin 904.476.8744 [1][1]rob@dumoulins.net [2][2]www.kbsi.co [3][3]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58 On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 3:05 PM, L GRAY <[4][4]tipo874a@msn.com> wrote: The rear glass IS perfectly flat.A I've changed many of these and the ones guys have cut locally always seem to be cut a tad later than stock. A A A What did your guys use for a template? Leslie A. Gray body strip the there may the back frame the car maintain an list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. [14]mailto:rob@dumoulins.net 2. [15]http://www.kbsi.co/ 3. [16]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58 4. [17]mailto:tipo874a@msn.com 5. [18]mailto:rob@dumoulins.net 6. [19]mailto:cengles@cox.net 7. [20]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 8. [21]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 9. [22]mailto:cengles@cox.net 10. [23]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 11. [24]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 12. [25]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 13. [26]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [27]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [28]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:rob@dumoulins.net 2. http://www.kbsi.co/ 3. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58 4. mailto:tipo874a@msn.com 5. mailto:rob@dumoulins.net 6. mailto:cengles@cox.net 7. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 8. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 9. mailto:[9]cengles@cox.net? 10. mailto:[10]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 11. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 12. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 13. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 14. mailto:rob@dumoulins.net? 15. http://www.kbsi.co/ 16. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58 17. mailto:tipo874a@msn.com? 18. mailto:rob@dumoulins.net? 19. mailto:cengles@cox.net? 20. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 21. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 22. mailto:cengles@cox.net? 23. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 24. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 25. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 26. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 27. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 28. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
It was my understanding that the back glass is perfectly flat. Others have implied that may not be the case. If it is supposed to have a slight contour, that could be my problem. All the back window glass I have handled is flat. I broke one of these back panes myself. Chuck
participants (7)
-
cengles＠cox.net -
jderyke＠aol.com -
L GRAY -
Mike Drew -
Rob Dumoulin -
Stephen -
The DeTomaso Registry Guy