Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side?
I was replying to Guidos post that read: Witness every VW and Porsche I'm aware of, they put a LH thread on the left side front spindle. I was not clear on that I admit. Tomas <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-----> From: Mike Drew [MikeLDrew@aol.com] Sent: 28/5/2016 11:23:00 PM To: guson@home.se Cc: forestg@att.net;detomaso@detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side? Tomas, Uh, no, we're not. Remember I'm the guy that started the thread by asking the question in the first place. We are talking about the axles. There are no axles in the front, only spindles. :) Mike Sent from my iPhone On May 28, 2016, at 13:23, "Tomas Gunnarsson" <guson@home.se> wrote:
We're talking about front wheel bearing nuts here.
Tomas <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-----> From: Forest Goodhart [forestg@att.net] Sent: 28/5/2016 3:34:04 AM To: detomaso@detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side? I do not think it matters which side the axle is on. I've worked on cars with two lefts and also cars with two rights. Neither ever had any issue with axle nuts coming loose, they are torqued to 360 lb/ft plus or minus From: Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To: Tomas Gunnarsson <guson@home.se> Cc: "<detomaso@detomasolist.com>" <detomaso@detomasolist.com> Sent: Friday, May 27, 2016 5:36 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side? Tomas, You have to remove the driveshaft to see the nut.... Mike Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2016, at 15:51, "Tomas Gunnarsson" <[1]guson@home.se> wrote: I'll check next time my car has its wheels off! :-D Tomas <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-----> From: Mike Drew [[2]MikeLDrew@aol.com] Sent: 27/5/2016 9:43:52 PM To: [3]guson@home.se Cc: [4]guido_detomaso@prodigy.net;[5]detomaso@detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side? Tomas, I started this thread and the overwhelming response is that the original setup had the LH threads on the LH side of the car. I don't really want to know why, just wanted to know what was done originally.... Cheers! Mike Sent from my iPad
On May 27, 2016, at 12:35 PM, Tomas Gunnarsson <[6]guson@home.se> wrote:
I'm pretty sure it's the other way around. Left side of the car, RH thread.
Tomas <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-----> From: Guido deTomaso [[7]guido_detomaso@prodigy.net] Sent: 27/5/2016 8:23:20 PM To:
[8]b.hower3400@yahoo.com;[9]vinh.d.ly@gmail.com;[10]larrys@panteraparts
Cc: [11]MikeLDrew@aol.com;[12]detomaso@detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side? Late to this party. Pretty hard to imagine skidding to a stop and having the left side lug nuts spin off because of angular momentum, the hub stopped but the lugs kept spinning. Similarly hard to imagine the lightweight Pantera axle nut continuing to spin even if not tightened since it has a friction feature. Any fastener tightened at all is going to produce enough friction to be impervious to angular momentum / angular velocity changes. The self-tightening phenomenon is somewhat easy to predict where there's a rotating load and a thread. A bicycle pedal is a good example, if you can visualize the weight of the rider's foot going around a loose thread, visualize the male thread of the pedal shaft "walking" around the female thread of the crank arm, you may be able to predict which side will be self-tightening with a LH thread. Similarly British car knock off caps, if the hubs are put on the wrong side of the car, or the car is towed backwards, good chance the wheels will fall off, hasn't happened to me but I've heard several 1st
accounts. Again if you look at the weight of the car, visualize it walking around the thread, you can predict that the right side of
car will get the LH thread. ( Hit the top of the knock off toward
rear of the car to tighten ). LH threaded lug nuts, still used I believe on heavy-duty trucks, same principle. Other times reverse thread seems to be there only in case of catastrophe: Witness every VW and Porsche I'm aware of, they put a LH thread on the left side front spindle. Now this has no weight on
Hi guys,
I thought I would lead off with he first technical question on the new forum.
The rear axles are marked S and D, for 'left' and 'right' respectively. But that speaks to the thread direction (one of them is reverse
thread ... in order for the nut to want to turn, first the outside bearing would have to start spinning on the spindle, then the d-shape washer would have to fail, and the cotter pin or clamping feature would have to fail, ONLY THEN the reverse thread would save the day, until the heat build up snaps the spindle anyway. On the Pantera ... I don't see any path for the weight of the car to walk around the thread of the axle nut ... maybe it's there but I can't see it. However if under acceleration the flange spline failed, the nuts would tighten if they followed the flange, yes ? Perhaps this is the only reason for the handed thread in this application. Or so it seems to me, I could be wrong. GD From: B Hower via DeTomaso <[13]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To: Vinh Ly <[14]vinh.d.ly@gmail.com>; Larry Stock <[15]larrys@panteraparts.com> Cc: Mike Drew <[16]MikeLDrew@aol.com>; "[17]detomaso@detomasolist.com" <[18]detomaso@detomasolist.com> Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 12:44 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side? You would probably never notice a problem. Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be ! ) __________________________________________________________________ From: Vinh Ly <[19]vinh.d.ly@gmail.com> To: Larry Stock <[20]larrys@panteraparts.com> Cc: Mike Drew <[21]MikeLDrew@aol.com>; [22]detomaso@detomasolist.com Sent: Friday, May 20, 2016 12:56 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side? Question, what would be the ramifications if the axles were incorrectly installed on the wrong side? Thanks, Vinh Ly #7445 On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 1:48 PM, Larry Stock <[1][1][23]larrys@panteraparts.com> wrote: S= Sinestro or Left (the Sinister hand that holds the sword when dueling with the Romans) that goes on the Left side (drivers side) Mike, you win the prize for getting this one correct Larry On 5/20/16, 10:33 AM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Mike Drew via DeTomaso" <[2][2][24]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com on behalf of [3][3][25]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote: thread,
left to tighten)
It's my belief that the S or left-tighten axle goes on the left side of the car but I can't remember for sure. Can somebody confirm or deny?
Thanks!
And welcome back!
Mike
Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________
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=== message truncated === I was replying to Guidos post that read: Witness every VW and Porsche I'm aware of, they put a LH thread on the left side front spindle. I was not clear on that I admit. Tomas <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-----> From: Mike Drew [MikeLDrew@aol.com] Sent: 28/5/2016 11:23:00 PM To: guson@home.se Cc: forestg@att.net;detomaso@detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side? Tomas, Uh, no, we're not. Remember I'm the guy that started the thread by asking the question in the first place. We are talking about the axles. There are no axles in the front, only spindles. :) Mike Sent from my iPhone On May 28, 2016, at 13:23, "Tomas Gunnarsson" <guson@home.se> wrote:
We're talking about front wheel bearing nuts here.
Tomas <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-----> From: Forest Goodhart [forestg@att.net] Sent: 28/5/2016 3:34:04 AM To: detomaso@detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side? I do not think it matters which side the axle is on. I've worked on cars with two lefts and also cars with two rights. Neither ever had any issue with axle nuts coming loose, they are torqued to 360 lb/ft plus or minus From: Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To: Tomas Gunnarsson <guson@home.se> Cc: "<detomaso@detomasolist.com>" <detomaso@detomasolist.com> Sent: Friday, May 27, 2016 5:36 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side? Tomas, You have to remove the driveshaft to see the nut.... Mike Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2016, at 15:51, "Tomas Gunnarsson" <[1]guson@home.se> wrote: I'll check next time my car has its wheels off! :-D Tomas <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-----> From: Mike Drew [[2]MikeLDrew@aol.com] Sent: 27/5/2016 9:43:52 PM To: [3]guson@home.se Cc: [4]guido_detomaso@prodigy.net;[5]detomaso@detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side? Tomas, I started this thread and the overwhelming response is that the original setup had the LH threads on the LH side of the car. I don't really want to know why, just wanted to know what was done originally.... Cheers! Mike Sent from my iPad
On May 27, 2016, at 12:35 PM, Tomas Gunnarsson <[6]guson@home.se> wrote:
I'm pretty sure it's the other way around. Left side of the car, RH thread.
Tomas <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-----> From: Guido deTomaso [[7]guido_detomaso@prodigy.net] Sent: 27/5/2016 8:23:20 PM To:
[8]b.hower3400@yahoo.com;[9]vinh.d.ly@gmail.com;[10]larrys@panteraparts
Cc: [11]MikeLDrew@aol.com;[12]detomaso@detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side? Late to this party. Pretty hard to imagine skidding to a stop and having the left side lug nuts spin off because of angular momentum, the hub stopped but the lugs kept spinning. Similarly hard to imagine the lightweight Pantera axle nut continuing to spin even if not tightened since it has a friction feature. Any fastener tightened at all is going to produce enough friction to be impervious to angular momentum / angular velocity changes. The self-tightening phenomenon is somewhat easy to predict where there's a rotating load and a thread. A bicycle pedal is a good example, if you can visualize the weight of the rider's foot going around a loose thread, visualize the male thread of the pedal shaft "walking" around the female thread of the crank arm, you may be able to predict which side will be self-tightening with a LH thread. Similarly British car knock off caps, if the hubs are put on the wrong side of the car, or the car is towed backwards, good chance the wheels will fall off, hasn't happened to me but I've heard several 1st
accounts. Again if you look at the weight of the car, visualize it walking around the thread, you can predict that the right side of
car will get the LH thread. ( Hit the top of the knock off toward
rear of the car to tighten ). LH threaded lug nuts, still used I believe on heavy-duty trucks, same principle. Other times reverse thread seems to be there only in case of catastrophe: Witness every VW and Porsche I'm aware of, they put a LH thread on the left side front spindle. Now this has no weight on
Hi guys,
I thought I would lead off with he first technical question on the new forum.
The rear axles are marked S and D, for 'left' and 'right' respectively. But that speaks to the thread direction (one of them is reverse
thread ... in order for the nut to want to turn, first the outside bearing would have to start spinning on the spindle, then the d-shape washer would have to fail, and the cotter pin or clamping feature would have to fail, ONLY THEN the reverse thread would save the day, until the heat build up snaps the spindle anyway. On the Pantera ... I don't see any path for the weight of the car to walk around the thread of the axle nut ... maybe it's there but I can't see it. However if under acceleration the flange spline failed, the nuts would tighten if they followed the flange, yes ? Perhaps this is the only reason for the handed thread in this application. Or so it seems to me, I could be wrong. GD From: B Hower via DeTomaso <[13]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To: Vinh Ly <[14]vinh.d.ly@gmail.com>; Larry Stock <[15]larrys@panteraparts.com> Cc: Mike Drew <[16]MikeLDrew@aol.com>; "[17]detomaso@detomasolist.com" <[18]detomaso@detomasolist.com> Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 12:44 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side? You would probably never notice a problem. Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be ! ) __________________________________________________________________ From: Vinh Ly <[19]vinh.d.ly@gmail.com> To: Larry Stock <[20]larrys@panteraparts.com> Cc: Mike Drew <[21]MikeLDrew@aol.com>; [22]detomaso@detomasolist.com Sent: Friday, May 20, 2016 12:56 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side? Question, what would be the ramifications if the axles were incorrectly installed on the wrong side? Thanks, Vinh Ly #7445 On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 1:48 PM, Larry Stock <[1][1][23]larrys@panteraparts.com> wrote: S= Sinestro or Left (the Sinister hand that holds the sword when dueling with the Romans) that goes on the Left side (drivers side) Mike, you win the prize for getting this one correct Larry On 5/20/16, 10:33 AM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Mike Drew via DeTomaso" <[2][2][24]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com on behalf of [3][3][25]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote: thread,
left to tighten)
It's my belief that the S or left-tighten axle goes on the left side of the car but I can't remember for sure. Can somebody confirm or deny?
Thanks!
And welcome back!
Mike
Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________
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Tomas Gunnarsson