Dear Stephen, A philosophical response to the question: "....what POCA does for me.." What the new POCA does for you is to give you more value for your membership and a better membership experience. What the old POCA did with volunteers and enthusiasts in the days before the internet, was to provide a nationwide organization that aided and abetted information and experience about the difficulties and joys of owning a Pantera. The bright eyed amateurs would type out newsletters and mail them. The newsletters and the Profiles improved with time, but they both provided a framework for Pantera owners across the nation to benefit from their fellow members. Outside of southern California, it was the only therapy for being the "Lone Ranger" in Enid, Oklahoma, for example. With the incorporation of the Vegas Rally, a national meeting provided the faces to connect with the names and the opportunity to socialize and build relationships. Finally, the old Forum extended that to the internet with the results that we all are familiar with. Currently, the new POCA offers all the high tech satisfaction of digital cable attainment of various and sundry benefits. Historically, the old POCA was the foundation of the relationships and friendships and Pantera ownership that we have today. Philosophically yours, Chuck Engles On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 8:51 AM, Stephen wrote:
I believe that Thomas gets to the heart of the issue with the current POCA leader. There have been a number of times that MS has responded to posts I put out on there on the previous forum in a way that made me wonder why I bothered to post at all. It took me a while to distinguish between the several Mikes that posted on the previous forum - it was the short one that I figured out first - and I quit reading his responses. Especially when I realized that he really doesn't know it all, and that his technical guidance was flawed as often as it was correct.
I know that the short is doing his best to put together his idea of a better POCA site. And I know it will offer a lot. No doubt. NTL, his amazing ability to piss folks off with his truly marginal interpersonal skills is well known, and totally inappropriate for a person in his position. POCA is not this forum - and, well, vice versa. 3 years ago, when my wife and I bought 5332, I likely would have put up with the shorts crap to get what we needed - as I did in the past. Today - well, 5332 is a dream to drive, and I have this forum. Tell me again what POCA does for me - other than to remind me that some folk make terrible leaders?
Stephen Nelson
-----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Thomas Törnblom Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 1:36 AM To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
1) You can't do much about family, love it or hate it.
2) If you have an issue with a colleague, step away, if it is with management, get a new job
3) If you have an issue with the current leadership in a club you pay to be part of, then quitting, even temporarily, would at least send a fairly strong message that something is wrong, or else the club may not be for you anymore.
As I've said before, I will likely not renew my POCA membership when it is due, and if I were ten years younger I would also get a new job.
Life's too short to having to deal with a*holes.
Thomas
Quitting is only going to hurt the club and the people in it who love you. We are all family here. Quit because of one person you don't agree with? Quit because of a family member you don't get along with? If we all did that none of us would be working in our day jobs, or have a family at all.
I assume punch my brother in the face, but he is still my brother and that would really piss off my mom.
Just saying.
Better that maybe we all just step away from the computer screen for a while, there's a whole big world out there.
Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
On 8/06/2016, at 17:14, Stephen <steve@snclocks.com> wrote:
Dear GoNancy Haney - I can readily understand your letting go of your POCA membership - right now the leadership is proving to be just plain polarizing. Just don't let go of this forum! And, one day, when hoof in mouth is not so rampant you can perhaps rejoin.
Stephen Nelson
-----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of gonancy@juno.com Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 8:38 PM To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: [DeTomaso] POCA
Dear Forum, Even though I've just been a lurker and occasional poster and spellcheck nazi on the Forum since its inception, I wanted to put it out to the Pantera Community that I will be letting Judy McCartney know that I am ending my membership in POCA effective immediately. That means my associate member, the Profiles Editor, will be leaving also. Mike has the June issue at the printer's right now. It will be his last issue. As an aside, Mike couldn't even put his own profile on the POCA website, even though he's on the BOD, because he's an associate member, not a "true " member according to whomever it was that he contacted about it. How do you like that? Makes him sound like a second class citizen.
It's been a great 25 years, GoNancy Haney
P.S. I listened in on the last BOD meeting last week and it was all I could do to keep my mouth shut. A monumental effort on my part. I could not believe my ears sometimes at what MS was saying. He is a real
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Ahhhh - I understand so much better. Sort of like why we don't have a tv so we can focus on our friends. Good explanation! Stephen Nelson SNClocks.com Click here to join one of our mailing lists Contact Lists Click here for our new Hammered Dulcimers galleries Click here for my new blog on finding happiness in retirement -----Original Message----- From: cengles@cox.net [mailto:cengles@cox.net] Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 12:28 PM To: steve@snclocks.com Cc: tipo874@gmail.com; detomaso detomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Dear Stephen, A philosophical response to the question: "....what POCA does for me.." What the new POCA does for you is to give you more value for your membership and a better membership experience. What the old POCA did with volunteers and enthusiasts in the days before the internet, was to provide a nationwide organization that aided and abetted information and experience about the difficulties and joys of owning a Pantera. The bright eyed amateurs would type out newsletters and mail them. The newsletters and the Profiles improved with time, but they both provided a framework for Pantera owners across the nation to benefit from their fellow members. Outside of southern California, it was the only therapy for being the "Lone Ranger" in Enid, Oklahoma, for example. With the incorporation of the Vegas Rally, a national meeting provided the faces to connect with the names and the opportunity to socialize and build relationships. Finally, the old Forum extended that to the internet with the results that we all are familiar with. Currently, the new POCA offers all the high tech satisfaction of digital cable attainment of various and sundry benefits. Historically, the old POCA was the foundation of the relationships and friendships and Pantera ownership that we have today. Philosophically yours, Chuck Engles On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 8:51 AM, Stephen wrote:
I believe that Thomas gets to the heart of the issue with the current POCA leader. There have been a number of times that MS has responded to posts I put out on there on the previous forum in a way that made me wonder why I bothered to post at all. It took me a while to distinguish between the several Mikes that posted on the previous forum - it was the short one that I figured out first - and I quit reading his responses. Especially when I realized that he really doesn't know it all, and that his technical guidance was flawed as often as it was correct.
I know that the short is doing his best to put together his idea of a better POCA site. And I know it will offer a lot. No doubt. NTL, his amazing ability to piss folks off with his truly marginal interpersonal skills is well known, and totally inappropriate for a person in his position. POCA is not this forum - and, well, vice versa. 3 years ago, when my wife and I bought 5332, I likely would have put up with the shorts crap to get what we needed - as I did in the past. Today - well, 5332 is a dream to drive, and I have this forum. Tell me again what POCA does for me - other than to remind me that some folk make terrible leaders?
Stephen Nelson
-----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Thomas Törnblom Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 1:36 AM To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
1) You can't do much about family, love it or hate it.
2) If you have an issue with a colleague, step away, if it is with management, get a new job
3) If you have an issue with the current leadership in a club you pay to be part of, then quitting, even temporarily, would at least send a fairly strong message that something is wrong, or else the club may not be for you anymore.
As I've said before, I will likely not renew my POCA membership when it is due, and if I were ten years younger I would also get a new job.
Life's too short to having to deal with a*holes.
Thomas
Quitting is only going to hurt the club and the people in it who love you. We are all family here. Quit because of one person you don't agree with? Quit because of a family member you don't get along with? If we all did that none of us would be working in our day jobs, or have a family at all.
I assume punch my brother in the face, but he is still my brother and that would really piss off my mom.
Just saying.
Better that maybe we all just step away from the computer screen for a while, there's a whole big world out there.
Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
On 8/06/2016, at 17:14, Stephen <steve@snclocks.com> wrote:
Dear GoNancy Haney - I can readily understand your letting go of your POCA membership - right now the leadership is proving to be just plain polarizing. Just don't let go of this forum! And, one day, when hoof in mouth is not so rampant you can perhaps rejoin.
Stephen Nelson
-----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of gonancy@juno.com Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 8:38 PM To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: [DeTomaso] POCA
Dear Forum, Even though I've just been a lurker and occasional poster and spellcheck nazi on the Forum since its inception, I wanted to put it out to the Pantera Community that I will be letting Judy McCartney know that I am ending my membership in POCA effective immediately. That means my associate member, the Profiles Editor, will be leaving also. Mike has the June issue at the printer's right now. It will be his last issue. As an aside, Mike couldn't even put his own profile on the POCA website, even though he's on the BOD, because he's an associate member, not a "true " member according to whomever it was that he contacted about it. How do you like that? Makes him sound like a second class citizen.
It's been a great 25 years, GoNancy Haney
P.S. I listened in on the last BOD meeting last week and it was all I could do to keep my mouth shut. A monumental effort on my part. I could not believe my ears sometimes at what MS was saying. He is a real
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Den 2016-06-08 kl. 08:48, skrev Ed Mendez: piece of work. list. the links above. list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. the links above. list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
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Like buying a high tech refrigerator for an Eskimo? From: Stephen <steve@snclocks.com> To: cengles@cox.net Cc: 'detomaso detomaso' <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 1:14 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Ahhhh - I understand so much better. Sort of like why we don't have a tv so we can focus on our friends. Good explanation! Stephen Nelson SNClocks.com Click here to join one of our mailing lists Contact Lists Click here for our new Hammered Dulcimers galleries Click here for my new blog on finding happiness in retirement -----Original Message----- From: cengles@cox.net [mailto:cengles@cox.net] Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 12:28 PM To: steve@snclocks.com Cc: tipo874@gmail.com; detomaso detomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Dear Stephen, A philosophical response to the question: "....what POCA does for me.." What the new POCA does for you is to give you more value for your membership and a better membership experience. What the old POCA did with volunteers and enthusiasts in the days before the internet, was to provide a nationwide organization that aided and abetted information and experience about the difficulties and joys of owning a Pantera. The bright eyed amateurs would type out newsletters and mail them. The newsletters and the Profiles improved with time, but they both provided a framework for Pantera owners across the nation to benefit from their fellow members. Outside of southern California, it was the only therapy for being the "Lone Ranger" in Enid, Oklahoma, for example. With the incorporation of the Vegas Rally, a national meeting provided the faces to connect with the names and the opportunity to socialize and build relationships. Finally, the old Forum extended that to the internet with the results that we all are familiar with. Currently, the new POCA offers all the high tech satisfaction of digital cable attainment of various and sundry benefits. Historically, the old POCA was the foundation of the relationships and friendships and Pantera ownership that we have today. Philosophically yours, Chuck Engles On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 8:51 AM, Stephen wrote:
I believe that Thomas gets to the heart of the issue with the current POCA leader. There have been a number of times that MS has responded to posts I put out on there on the previous forum in a way that made me wonder why I bothered to post at all. It took me a while to distinguish between the several Mikes that posted on the previous forum - it was the short one that I figured out first - and I quit reading his responses. Especially when I realized that he really doesn't know it all, and that his technical guidance was flawed as often as it was correct.
I know that the short is doing his best to put together his idea of a better POCA site. And I know it will offer a lot. No doubt. NTL, his amazing ability to piss folks off with his truly marginal interpersonal skills is well known, and totally inappropriate for a person in his position. POCA is not this forum - and, well, vice versa. 3 years ago, when my wife and I bought 5332, I likely would have put up with the shorts crap to get what we needed - as I did in the past. Today - well, 5332 is a dream to drive, and I have this forum. Tell me again what POCA does for me - other than to remind me that some folk make terrible leaders?
Stephen Nelson
-----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Thomas Törnblom Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 1:36 AM To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
1) You can't do much about family, love it or hate it.
2) If you have an issue with a colleague, step away, if it is with management, get a new job
3) If you have an issue with the current leadership in a club you pay to be part of, then quitting, even temporarily, would at least send a fairly strong message that something is wrong, or else the club may not be for you anymore.
As I've said before, I will likely not renew my POCA membership when it is due, and if I were ten years younger I would also get a new job.
Life's too short to having to deal with a*holes.
Thomas
Quitting is only going to hurt the club and the people in it who love you. We are all family here. Quit because of one person you don't agree with? Quit because of a family member you don't get along with? If we all did that none of us would be working in our day jobs, or have a family at all.
I assume punch my brother in the face, but he is still my brother and that would really piss off my mom.
Just saying.
Better that maybe we all just step away from the computer screen for a while, there's a whole big world out there.
Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
On 8/06/2016, at 17:14, Stephen <steve@snclocks.com> wrote:
Dear GoNancy Haney - I can readily understand your letting go of your POCA membership - right now the leadership is proving to be just plain polarizing. Just don't let go of this forum! And, one day, when hoof in mouth is not so rampant you can perhaps rejoin.
Stephen Nelson
-----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of gonancy@juno.com Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 8:38 PM To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: [DeTomaso] POCA
Dear Forum, Even though I've just been a lurker and occasional poster and spellcheck nazi on the Forum since its inception, I wanted to put it out to the Pantera Community that I will be letting Judy McCartney know that I am ending my membership in POCA effective immediately. That means my associate member, the Profiles Editor, will be leaving also. Mike has the June issue at the printer's right now. It will be his last issue. As an aside, Mike couldn't even put his own profile on the POCA website, even though he's on the BOD, because he's an associate member, not a "true " member according to whomever it was that he contacted about it. How do you like that? Makes him sound like a second class citizen.
It's been a great 25 years, GoNancy Haney
P.S. I listened in on the last BOD meeting last week and it was all I could do to keep my mouth shut. A monumental effort on my part. I could not believe my ears sometimes at what MS was saying. He is a real
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Den 2016-06-08 kl. 08:48, skrev Ed Mendez: piece of work. list. the links above. list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. the links above. list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
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_______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Like buying a high tech refrigerator for an Eskimo? __________________________________________________________________ From: Stephen <steve@snclocks.com> To: cengles@cox.net Cc: 'detomaso detomaso' <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 1:14 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Ahhhh - I understand so much better. Sort of like why we don't have a tv so we can focus on our friends. Good explanation! Stephen Nelson SNClocks.com Click here to join one of our mailing lists Contact Lists Click here for our new Hammered Dulcimers galleries Click here for my new blog on finding happiness in retirement -----Original Message----- From: [1]cengles@cox.net [mailto:[2]cengles@cox.net] Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 12:28 PM To: [3]steve@snclocks.com Cc: [4]tipo874@gmail.com; detomaso detomaso <[5]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Dear Stephen, A philosophical response to the question: "....what POCA does for me.." What the new POCA does for you is to give you more value for your membership and a better membership experience. What the old POCA did with volunteers and enthusiasts in the days before the internet, was to provide a nationwide organization that aided and abetted information and experience about the difficulties and joys of owning a Pantera. The bright eyed amateurs would type out newsletters and mail them. The newsletters and the Profiles improved with time, but they both provided a framework for Pantera owners across the nation to benefit from their fellow members. Outside of southern California, it was the only therapy for being the "Lone Ranger" in Enid, Oklahoma, for example. With the incorporation of the Vegas Rally, a national meeting provided the faces to connect with the names and the opportunity to socialize and build relationships. Finally, the old Forum extended that to the internet with the results that we all are familiar with. Currently, the new POCA offers all the high tech satisfaction of digital cable attainment of various and sundry benefits. Historically, the old POCA was the foundation of the relationships and friendships and Pantera ownership that we have today. Philosophically yours, Chuck Engles On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 8:51 AM, Stephen wrote:
I believe that Thomas gets to the heart of the issue with the current POCA leader. There have been a number of times that MS has responded to posts I put out on there on the previous forum in a way that made me wonder why I bothered to post at all. It took me a while to distinguish between the several Mikes that posted on the previous forum - it was the short one that I figured out first - and I quit reading his responses. Especially when I realized that he really doesn't know it all, and that his technical guidance was flawed as often as it was correct.
I know that the short is doing his best to put together his idea of a better POCA site. And I know it will offer a lot. No doubt. NTL, his amazing ability to piss folks off with his truly marginal interpersonal skills is well known, and totally inappropriate for a person in his position. POCA is not this forum - and, well, vice versa. 3 years ago, when my wife and I bought 5332, I likely would have put up with the shorts crap to get what we needed - as I did in the past. Today - well, 5332 is a dream to drive, and I have this forum. Tell me again what POCA does for me - other than to remind me that some folk make terrible leaders?
Stephen Nelson
-----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:[6]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Thomas TAP:rnblom Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 1:36 AM To: [7]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
1) You can't do much about family, love it or hate it.
2) If you have an issue with a colleague, step away, if it is with management, get a new job
3) If you have an issue with the current leadership in a club you pay to be part of, then quitting, even temporarily, would at least send a fairly strong message that something is wrong, or else the club may not be for you anymore.
As I've said before, I will likely not renew my POCA membership when it is due, and if I were ten years younger I would also get a new job.
Life's too short to having to deal with a*holes.
Thomas
Quitting is only going to hurt the club and the people in it who love you. We are all family here. Quit because of one person you don't agree with? Quit because of a family member you don't get along with? If we all did that none of us would be working in our day jobs, or have a family at all.
I assume punch my brother in the face, but he is still my brother and that would really piss off my mom.
Just saying.
Better that maybe we all just step away from the computer screen for a while, there's a whole big world out there.
Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
On 8/06/2016, at 17:14, Stephen <[8]steve@snclocks.com> wrote:
Dear GoNancy Haney - I can readily understand your letting go of your POCA membership - right now the leadership is proving to be just plain polarizing. Just don't let go of this forum! And, one day, when hoof in mouth is not so rampant you can perhaps rejoin.
Stephen Nelson
-----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:[9]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of [10]gonancy@juno.com Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 8:38 PM To: [11]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: [DeTomaso] POCA
Dear Forum, Even though I've just been a lurker and occasional poster and spellcheck nazi on the Forum since its inception, I wanted to put it out to the Pantera Community that I will be letting Judy McCartney know that I am ending my membership in POCA effective immediately. That means my associate member, the Profiles Editor, will be leaving also. Mike has the June issue at the printer's right now. It will be his last issue. As an aside, Mike couldn't even put his own profile on the POCA website, even though he's on the BOD, because he's an associate member, not a "true " member according to whomever it was that he contacted about it. How do you like that? Makes him sound like a second class citizen.
It's been a great 25 years, GoNancy Haney
P.S. I listened in on the last BOD meeting last week and it was all I could do to keep my mouth shut. A monumental effort on my part. I could not believe my ears sometimes at what MS was saying. He is a real
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I like your philosophical response, Chuck! Our first known philosophers, Aristoteles, Socrates and Sophocleous, were my ancestors! The Greek word means "friend (or lover) of wise thoughts" and being Greek, please, please, ignore as much as you don't like and focus on the positive of this website. Where else can you find great guys who know the DeTomaso brand so well and love the car so much, they have become experts in its challenging mechanism! Focus on your "friends of wise thoughts" - the Pantera philosophers, their wealth of knowledge and their spirit of sharing such and forget the other stuff. I have been a "victim" of bullying, discrimination and other negative actions (as many of us have at times), but I stood strong, proud and determined to learn a new language and culture at 23 and succeed in a business world that was destined for men only at the time. If I had allowed "words" to stop me, I would be nothing now. Be a part of the great group of Pantera owners who are your friends and many times mentors. You have more to gain by staying. Be patient, shift though "kaka" and focus on the CAR! I am amazed how quickly solutions/answers arrive from so many when you have a dilemma or a question about your car, whatever it may be. It is so impressive, isn't it? I'm not trying to convince anyone to do something they don't want to do. I am just pointing out that we can all shift through dislikes and focus on to the actual great benefits of this group. Respectfully, Effie Richards -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of cengles@cox.net Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 12:28 PM To: steve@snclocks.com Cc: detomaso detomaso Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Dear Stephen, A philosophical response to the question: "....what POCA does for me.." What the new POCA does for you is to give you more value for your membership and a better membership experience. What the old POCA did with volunteers and enthusiasts in the days before the internet, was to provide a nationwide organization that aided and abetted information and experience about the difficulties and joys of owning a Pantera. The bright eyed amateurs would type out newsletters and mail them. The newsletters and the Profiles improved with time, but they both provided a framework for Pantera owners across the nation to benefit from their fellow members. Outside of southern California, it was the only therapy for being the "Lone Ranger" in Enid, Oklahoma, for example. With the incorporation of the Vegas Rally, a national meeting provided the faces to connect with the names and the opportunity to socialize and build relationships. Finally, the old Forum extended that to the internet with the results that we all are familiar with. Currently, the new POCA offers all the high tech satisfaction of digital cable attainment of various and sundry benefits. Historically, the old POCA was the foundation of the relationships and friendships and Pantera ownership that we have today. Philosophically yours, Chuck Engles On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 8:51 AM, Stephen wrote:
I believe that Thomas gets to the heart of the issue with the current POCA leader. There have been a number of times that MS has responded to posts I put out on there on the previous forum in a way that made me wonder why I bothered to post at all. It took me a while to distinguish between the several Mikes that posted on the previous forum - it was the short one that I figured out first - and I quit reading his responses. Especially when I realized that he really doesn't know it all, and that his technical guidance was flawed as often as it was correct.
I know that the short is doing his best to put together his idea of a better POCA site. And I know it will offer a lot. No doubt. NTL, his amazing ability to piss folks off with his truly marginal interpersonal skills is well known, and totally inappropriate for a person in his position. POCA is not this forum - and, well, vice versa. 3 years ago, when my wife and I bought 5332, I likely would have put up with the shorts crap to get what we needed - as I did in the past. Today - well, 5332 is a dream to drive, and I have this forum. Tell me again what POCA does for me - other than to remind me that some folk make terrible leaders?
Stephen Nelson
-----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Thomas Törnblom Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 1:36 AM To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
1) You can't do much about family, love it or hate it.
2) If you have an issue with a colleague, step away, if it is with management, get a new job
3) If you have an issue with the current leadership in a club you pay to be part of, then quitting, even temporarily, would at least send a fairly strong message that something is wrong, or else the club may not be for you anymore.
As I've said before, I will likely not renew my POCA membership when it is due, and if I were ten years younger I would also get a new job.
Life's too short to having to deal with a*holes.
Thomas
Quitting is only going to hurt the club and the people in it who love you. We are all family here. Quit because of one person you don't agree with? Quit because of a family member you don't get along with? If we all did that none of us would be working in our day jobs, or have a family at all.
I assume punch my brother in the face, but he is still my brother and that would really piss off my mom.
Just saying.
Better that maybe we all just step away from the computer screen for a while, there's a whole big world out there.
Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
On 8/06/2016, at 17:14, Stephen <steve@snclocks.com> wrote:
Dear GoNancy Haney - I can readily understand your letting go of your POCA membership - right now the leadership is proving to be just plain polarizing. Just don't let go of this forum! And, one day, when hoof in mouth is not so rampant you can perhaps rejoin.
Stephen Nelson
-----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of gonancy@juno.com Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 8:38 PM To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: [DeTomaso] POCA
Dear Forum, Even though I've just been a lurker and occasional poster and spellcheck nazi on the Forum since its inception, I wanted to put it out to the Pantera Community that I will be letting Judy McCartney know that I am ending my membership in POCA effective immediately. That means my associate member, the Profiles Editor, will be leaving also. Mike has the June issue at the printer's right now. It will be his last issue. As an aside, Mike couldn't even put his own profile on the POCA website, even though he's on the BOD, because he's an associate member, not a "true " member according to whomever it was that he contacted about it. How do you like that? Makes him sound like a second class citizen.
It's been a great 25 years, GoNancy Haney
P.S. I listened in on the last BOD meeting last week and it was all I could do to keep my mouth shut. A monumental effort on my part. I could not believe my ears sometimes at what MS was saying. He is a real
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Effie, I don't know what you do or did for a living, but I'm curious if after say 20 years of doing your job, having the respect of all your peers, they suddenly brought someone new in to manage you that treated you like KaKa ( I think that was your word), didn't listen to your recommendations, tried to take away your tools, didn't include you in the meetings to decide how you would do your job, said hateful things to you......and OBTW DIDN'T PAY YOU ANYTHING! How long would you stay in that job? These folks stayed 6 MONTHS!! I think they should get a statue erected in their honor. I don't know you.....hopefully we will get a chance to meet and hear each other's Pantera story, and I agree we need to try to find a way out of the darkness we're in right now, but I don't think it's fair to challenge these two POCA stalwarts to "shift through dislikes and focus on the actual great benefits of this group". Your Pantera Brother :-)
On Jun 8, 2016, at 1:34 PM, Effie Richards <erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com> wrote:
I like your philosophical response, Chuck!
Our first known philosophers, Aristoteles, Socrates and Sophocleous, were my ancestors! The Greek word means "friend (or lover) of wise thoughts" and being Greek, please, please, ignore as much as you don't like and focus on the positive of this website.
Where else can you find great guys who know the DeTomaso brand so well and love the car so much, they have become experts in its challenging mechanism! Focus on your "friends of wise thoughts" - the Pantera philosophers, their wealth of knowledge and their spirit of sharing such and forget the other stuff.
I have been a "victim" of bullying, discrimination and other negative actions (as many of us have at times), but I stood strong, proud and determined to learn a new language and culture at 23 and succeed in a business world that was destined for men only at the time. If I had allowed "words" to stop me, I would be nothing now.
Be a part of the great group of Pantera owners who are your friends and many times mentors. You have more to gain by staying. Be patient, shift though "kaka" and focus on the CAR! I am amazed how quickly solutions/answers arrive from so many when you have a dilemma or a question about your car, whatever it may be. It is so impressive, isn't it?
I'm not trying to convince anyone to do something they don't want to do. I am just pointing out that we can all shift through dislikes and focus on to the actual great benefits of this group.
Respectfully, Effie Richards
-----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of cengles@cox.net Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 12:28 PM To: steve@snclocks.com Cc: detomaso detomaso Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
Dear Stephen,
A philosophical response to the question: "....what POCA does for me.."
What the new POCA does for you is to give you more value for your membership and a better membership experience.
What the old POCA did with volunteers and enthusiasts in the days before the internet, was to provide a nationwide organization that aided and abetted information and experience about the difficulties and joys of owning a Pantera. The bright eyed amateurs would type out newsletters and mail them. The newsletters and the Profiles improved with time, but they both provided a framework for Pantera owners across the nation to benefit from their fellow members. Outside of southern California, it was the only therapy for being the "Lone Ranger" in Enid, Oklahoma, for example. With the incorporation of the Vegas Rally, a national meeting provided the faces to connect with the names and the opportunity to socialize and build relationships. Finally, the old Forum extended that to the internet with the results that we all are familiar with.
Currently, the new POCA offers all the high tech satisfaction of digital cable attainment of various and sundry benefits.
Historically, the old POCA was the foundation of the relationships and friendships and Pantera ownership that we have today.
Philosophically yours, Chuck Engles
On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 8:51 AM, Stephen wrote:
I believe that Thomas gets to the heart of the issue with the current POCA leader. There have been a number of times that MS has responded to posts I put out on there on the previous forum in a way that made me wonder why I bothered to post at all. It took me a while to distinguish between the several Mikes that posted on the previous forum - it was the short one that I figured out first - and I quit reading his responses. Especially when I realized that he really doesn't know it all, and that his technical guidance was flawed as often as it was correct.
I know that the short is doing his best to put together his idea of a better POCA site. And I know it will offer a lot. No doubt. NTL, his amazing ability to piss folks off with his truly marginal interpersonal skills is well known, and totally inappropriate for a person in his position. POCA is not this forum - and, well, vice versa. 3 years ago, when my wife and I bought 5332, I likely would have put up with the shorts crap to get what we needed - as I did in the past. Today - well, 5332 is a dream to drive, and I have this forum. Tell me again what POCA does for me - other than to remind me that some folk make terrible leaders?
Stephen Nelson
-----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Thomas Törnblom Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 1:36 AM To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
1) You can't do much about family, love it or hate it.
2) If you have an issue with a colleague, step away, if it is with management, get a new job
3) If you have an issue with the current leadership in a club you pay to be part of, then quitting, even temporarily, would at least send a fairly strong message that something is wrong, or else the club may not be for you anymore.
As I've said before, I will likely not renew my POCA membership when it is due, and if I were ten years younger I would also get a new job.
Life's too short to having to deal with a*holes.
Thomas
Den 2016-06-08 kl. 08:48, skrev Ed Mendez: Quitting is only going to hurt the club and the people in it who love you. We are all family here. Quit because of one person you don't agree with? Quit because of a family member you don't get along with? If we all did that none of us would be working in our day jobs, or have a family at all.
I assume punch my brother in the face, but he is still my brother and that would really piss off my mom.
Just saying.
Better that maybe we all just step away from the computer screen for a while, there's a whole big world out there.
Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
On 8/06/2016, at 17:14, Stephen <steve@snclocks.com> wrote:
Dear GoNancy Haney - I can readily understand your letting go of your POCA membership - right now the leadership is proving to be just plain polarizing. Just don't let go of this forum! And, one day, when hoof in mouth is not so rampant you can perhaps rejoin.
Stephen Nelson
-----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of gonancy@juno.com Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 8:38 PM To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: [DeTomaso] POCA
Dear Forum, Even though I've just been a lurker and occasional poster and spellcheck nazi on the Forum since its inception, I wanted to put it out to the Pantera Community that I will be letting Judy McCartney know that I am ending my membership in POCA effective immediately. That means my associate member, the Profiles Editor, will be leaving also. Mike has the June issue at the printer's right now. It will be his last issue. As an aside, Mike couldn't even put his own profile on the POCA website, even though he's on the BOD, because he's an associate member, not a "true " member according to whomever it was that he contacted about it. How do you like that? Makes him sound like a second class citizen.
It's been a great 25 years, GoNancy Haney
P.S. I listened in on the last BOD meeting last week and it was all I could do to keep my mouth shut. A monumental effort on my part. I could not believe my ears sometimes at what MS was saying. He is a real piece of work.
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-----Original Message----- > From: DeTomaso [[2]mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of [3]cengles@cox.net > Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 12:28 PM > To: [4]steve@snclocks.com > Cc: detomaso detomaso > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA > > Dear Stephen, > > > > A philosophical response to the question: > "....what POCA does for me.." > > > What the new POCA does for you is to give you more value for your membership and a better membership experience. > > > What the old POCA did with volunteers and enthusiasts in the days before the internet, was to provide a nationwide > organization that aided and abetted information and experience about the > difficulties and joys of owning a Pantera. The bright eyed amateurs > would type out newsletters and mail them. The newsletters and the > Profiles improved with time, but they both
what we needed - as I did in the past. Today - well, 5332 is a dream to >> drive, and I have this forum. Tell me again what POCA does for me - >> other >> than to remind me that some folk make terrible leaders? >> >> Stephen Nelson >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: DeTomaso [[5]mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On >> Behalf >> Of Thomas TAP:rnblom >> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 1:36 AM >> To: [6]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA >> >> 1) You can't do much about family, love it or hate it. >> >> 2) If you have an issue with a colleague, step away, if it is with >> management, get a new job >> >> 3) If you have an issue with the current leadership in a club you pay >> to be >> part of, then quitting, even temporarily, would at least send a fairly >> strong message that something is wrong, or else the club may not be >> for you anymore. >> >> As I've said before, I will likely not renew my POCA membership when >> it is >> due, and if I were ten years younger I would also get a new job. >> >> Life's too short to having to deal with a*holes. >> >> Thomas >> >>> Den 2016-06-08 kl. 08:48, skrev Ed Mendez:
Quitting is only going to hurt the club and the people in it who love >>> you. >> We are all family here. Quit because of one person you don't agree >> with? >> Quit because of a family member you don't get along with? If we all >> did that >> none of us would be working in our day jobs, or have a family at all. >>> >>> I assume punch my brother in
> On 8/06/2016, at 17:14, Stephen <[7]steve@snclocks.com> wrote: >> Dear GoNancy Haney - I can readily understand your letting go of >>>> your POCA membership - right now the leadership is proving to be >>>> just plain polarizing. Just don't let go of this forum! And, one >>>> day, when hoof in mouth is not so rampant you can perhaps rejoin. >>>> >>>> Stephen Nelson >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [[8]mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On >>>> Behalf Of [9]gonancy@juno.com >>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 8:38 PM >>>> To: [10]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com >>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] POCA >>>> Dear Forum, >>>> Even though I've just been a lurker and occasional poster and >>>> spellcheck nazi on the Forum since its inception, I wanted to put it >>>> out to the Pantera Community that I will be letting Judy McCartney >>>> know that I am ending my membership in POCA effective immediately. >>>> That means my associate member, the Profiles Editor, will be leaving >>>> also. Mike has the June issue at
WELL SAID, SCOTT!! THANK YOU! You got right down to the bare bones of the issue. Judy -----Original Message----- From: Scott Couchman via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To: Effie Richards <erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com> Cc: detomaso detomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Wed, Jun 8, 2016 2:31 pm Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Effie, I don't know what you do or did for a living, but I'm curious if after say 20 years of doing your job, having the respect of all your peers, they suddenly brought someone new in to manage you that treated you like KaKa ( I think that was your word), didn't listen to your recommendations, tried to take away your tools, didn't include you in the meetings to decide how you would do your job, said hateful things to you......and OBTW DIDN'T PAY YOU ANYTHING! How long would you stay in that job? These folks stayed 6 MONTHS!! I think they should get a statue erected in their honor.I don't know you.....hopefully we will get a chance to meet and hear each other's Pantera story, and I agree we need to try to find a way out of the darkness we're in right now, but I don't think it's fair to challenge these two POCA stalwarts to "shift through dislikes and focus on the actual great benefits of this group". Your Pantera Brother :-)> On Jun 8, 2016, at 1:34 PM, Effie Richards <erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com> wrote:> > I like your philosophical response, Chuck!> > Our first known philosophers, Aristoteles, Socrates and Sophocleous, were my ancestors!> The Greek word means "friend (or lover) of wise thoughts" and being Greek, please, please, ignore as much as you don't like and focus on the positive of this website.> > Where else can you find great guys who know the DeTomaso brand so well and love the car so much, they have become experts in its challenging mechanism! Focus on your "friends of wise thoughts" - the Pantera philosophers, their wealth of knowledge and their spirit of sharing such and forget the other stuff.> > I have been a "victim" of bullying, discrimination and other negative actions (as many of us have at times), but I stood strong, proud and determined to learn a new language and culture at 23 and succeed in a business world that was destined for men only at the time. If I had allowed "words" to stop me, I would be nothing now.> > Be a part of the great group of Pantera owners who are your friends and many times mentors. You have more to gain by staying. Be patient, shift though "kaka" and focus on the CAR!> I am amazed how quickly solutions/answers arrive from so many when you have a dilemma or a question about your car, whatever it may be. It is so impressive, isn't it?> > I'm not trying to convince anyone to do something they don't want to do. I am just pointing out that we can all shift through dislikes and focus on to the actual great benefits of this group.> > Respectfully,> Effie Richards> > > > -----Original Message-----> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of cengles@cox.net> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 12:28 PM> To: steve@snclocks.com> Cc: detomaso detomaso> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA> > Dear Stephen,> > > > A philosophical response to the question: > "....what POCA does for me.."> > > What the new POCA does for you is to give you more value for your membership and a better membership experience.> > > What the old POCA did with volunteers and > enthusiasts in the days before the internet, was to provide a nationwide > organization that aided and abetted information and experience about the > difficulties and joys of owning a Pantera. The bright eyed amateurs > would type out newsletters and mail them. The newsletters and the > Profiles improved with time, but they both provided a framework for > Pantera owners across the nation to benefit from their fellow members. > Outside of southern California, it was the only therapy for being the > "Lone Ranger" in Enid, Oklahoma, for example. With the incorporation > of the Vegas Rally, a national meeting provided the faces to connect > with the names and the opportunity to socialize and build relationships. > Finally, the old Forum extended that to the internet with the results > that we all are familiar with.> > Currently, the new POCA offers all the high tech > satisfaction of digital cable attainment of various and sundry benefits.> > Historically, the old POCA was the foundation of > the relationships and friendships and Pantera ownership that we have > today.> > > > Philosophically yours, Chuck Engles> > >> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 8:51 AM, Stephen wrote:>> >> I believe that Thomas gets to the heart of the issue with the current >> POCA>> leader. There have been a number of times that MS has responded to >> posts I>> put out on there on the previous forum in a way that made me wonder >> why I>> bothered to post at all. It took me a while to distinguish between >> the>> several Mikes that posted on the previous forum - it was the short one >> that>> I figured out first - and I quit reading his responses. Especially >> when I>> realized that he really doesn't know it all, and that his technical >> guidance>> was flawed as often as it was correct.>> >> I know that the short is doing his best to put together his idea of a >> better>> POCA site. And I know it will offer a lot. No doubt. NTL, his >> amazing>> ability to piss folks off with his truly marginal interpersonal skills >> is>> well known, and totally inappropriate for a person in his position.>> POCA is not this forum - and, well, vice versa. 3 years ago, when my >> wife>> and I bought 5332, I likely would have put up with the shorts crap to >> get>> what we needed - as I did in the past. Today - well, 5332 is a dream >> to>> drive, and I have this forum. Tell me again what POCA does for me - >> other>> than to remind me that some folk make terrible leaders?>> >> Stephen Nelson>> >> -----Original Message----->> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On >> Behalf>> Of Thomas Törnblom>> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 1:36 AM>> To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA>> >> 1) You can't do much about family, love it or hate it.>> >> 2) If you have an issue with a colleague, step away, if it is with>> management, get a new job>> >> 3) If you have an issue with the current leadership in a club you pay >> to be>> part of, then quitting, even temporarily, would at least send a fairly>> strong message that something is wrong, or else the club may not be >> for you>> anymore.>> >> As I've said before, I will likely not renew my POCA membership when >> it is>> due, and if I were ten years younger I would also get a new job.>> >> Life's too short to having to deal with a*holes.>> >> Thomas>> >>> Den 2016-06-08 kl. 08:48, skrev Ed Mendez:>>> Quitting is only going to hurt the club and the people in it who love >>> you.>> We are all family here. Quit because of one person you don't agree >> with?>> Quit because of a family member you don't get along with? If we all >> did that>> none of us would be working in our day jobs, or have a family at all.>>> >>> I assume punch my brother in the face, but he is still my brother and >>> that>> would really piss off my mom.>>> >>> Just saying.>>> >>> Better that maybe we all just step away from the computer screen for >>> a>> while, there's a whole big world out there.>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus>>> >>>> On 8/06/2016, at 17:14, Stephen <steve@snclocks.com> wrote:>>>> >>>> Dear GoNancy Haney - I can readily understand your letting go of >>>> your POCA membership - right now the leadership is proving to be >>>> just plain polarizing. Just don't let go of this forum! And, one >>>> day, when hoof in mouth is not so rampant you can perhaps rejoin.>>>> >>>> Stephen Nelson>>>> >>>> -----Original Message----->>>> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On >>>> Behalf Of gonancy@juno.com>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 8:38 PM>>>> To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] POCA>>>> >>>> Dear Forum,>>>> Even though I've just been a lurker and occasional poster and >>>> spellcheck nazi on the Forum since its inception, I wanted to put it >>>> out to the Pantera Community that I will be letting Judy McCartney >>>> know that I am ending my membership in POCA effective immediately. >>>> That means my associate member, the Profiles Editor, will be leaving >>>> also. Mike has the June issue at the printer's right now. It will be >>>> his>> last issue.>>>> As an aside, Mike couldn't even put his own profile on the POCA >>>> website, even though he's on the BOD, because he's an associate >>>> member,>> not a "true ">>>> member according to whomever it was that he contacted about it. How >>>> do you like that? Makes him sound like a second class citizen.>>>> >>>> It's been a great 25 years,>>>> GoNancy Haney>>>> >>>> P.S. I listened in on the last BOD meeting last week and it was all >>>> I could do to keep my mouth shut. A monumental effort on my part. I >>>> could not believe my ears sometimes at what MS was saying. He is a >>>> real>> piece of work.>>>> >>>> ____________________________________________________________>>>> Nextiva vFAX>>>> Why Do You Still Have An Old Fax Machine?>>>> >>>> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5757934166446134075b2st03vuc>>>> _______________________________________________>>>> >>>> >>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not >>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list >>>> DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com >>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso>>>> >>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, >>>> etc.) use the links above.>>>> >>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward >>>> any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of >>>> the>> list.>>>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or >>>> approve the archiving of list messages.>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________>>>> >>>> >>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not >>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list >>>> DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com >>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso>>>> >>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, >>>> etc.) use>> the links above.>>>> >>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward >>>> any>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the >> list.>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or >> approve>> the archiving of list messages.>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________>>>> >>>> >>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not >>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list >>>> DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com >>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso>>>> >>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, >>>> etc.) use>> the links above.>>>> >>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward >>>> any>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the >> list.>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or >> approve>> the archiving of list messages.>> >> >> _______________________________________________>> >> >> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes>> DeTomaso mailing list>> DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso>> >> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) >> use the links above.>> >> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any >> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the >> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive >> or approve the archiving of list messages.> _______________________________________________> > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes> DeTomaso mailing list> DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.> > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.> > _______________________________________________> > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes> DeTomaso mailing list> DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.> > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages._______________________________________________Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCAPosted emails must not exceed 1.5 MegabytesDeTomaso mailing listDeTomaso@server.detomasolist.comhttp://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomasoTo manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. WELL SAID, SCOTT!! THANK YOU! You got right down to the bare bones of the issue. Judy -----Original Message----- From: Scott Couchman via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To: Effie Richards <erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com> Cc: detomaso detomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Wed, Jun 8, 2016 2:31 pm Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Effie, I don't know what you do or did for a living, but I'm curious if after say 20 years of doing your job, having the respect of all your peers, they suddenly brought someone new in to manage you that treated you like KaKa ( I think that was your word), didn't listen to your recommendations, tried to take away your tools, didn't include you in the meetings to decide how you would do your job, said hateful things to you......and OBTW DIDN'T PAY YOU ANYTHING! How long would you stay in that job? These folks stayed 6 MONTHS!! I think they should get a statue erected in their honor. I don't know you.....hopefully we will get a chance to meet and hear each other's Pantera story, and I agree we need to try to find a way out of the darkness we're in right now, but I don't think it's fair to challenge these two POCA stalwarts to "shift through dislikes and focus on the actual great benefits of this group". Your Pantera Brother :-) > On Jun 8, 2016, at 1:34 PM, Effie Richards <[1]erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com> wrote: > > I like your philosophical response, Chuck! > > Our first known philosophers, Aristoteles, Socrates and Sophocleous, were my ancestors! > The Greek word means "friend (or lover) of wise thoughts" and being Greek, please, please, ignore as much as you don't like and focus on the positive of this website. > > Where else can you find great guys who know the DeTomaso brand so well and love the car so much, they have become experts in its challenging mechanism! Focus on your "friends of wise thoughts" - the Pantera philosophers, their wealth of knowledge and their spirit of sharing such and forget the other stuff. > > I have been a "victim" of bullying, discrimination and other negative actions (as many of us have at times), but I stood strong, proud and determined to learn a new language and culture at 23 and succeed in a business world that was destined for men only at the time. If I had allowed "words" to stop me, I would be nothing now. > > Be a part of the great group of Pantera owners who are your friends and many times mentors. You have more to gain by staying. Be patient, shift though "kaka" and focus on the CAR! > I am amazed how quickly solutions/answers arrive from so many when you have a dilemma or a question about your car, whatever it may be. It is so impressive, isn't it? > > I'm not trying to convince anyone to do something they don't want to do. I am just pointing out that we can all shift through dislikes and focus on to the actual great benefits of this group. > > Respectfully, > Effie Richards provided a framework for > Pantera owners across the nation to benefit from their fellow members. > Outside of southern California, it was the only therapy for being the > "Lone Ranger" in Enid, Oklahoma, for example. With the incorporation > of the Vegas Rally, a national meeting provided the faces to connect > with the names and the opportunity to socialize and build relationships. > Finally, the old Forum extended that to the internet with the results > that we all are familiar with. > > Currently, the new POCA offers all the high tech > satisfaction of digital cable attainment of various and sundry benefits. > > Historically, the old POCA was the foundation of > the relationships and friendships and Pantera ownership that we have > today. > > > > Philosophically yours, Chuck Engles > > >> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 8:51 AM, Stephen wrote: >> >> I believe that Thomas gets to the heart of the issue with the current >> POCA >> leader. There have been a number of times that MS has responded to >> posts I >> put out on there on the previous forum in a way that made me wonder >> why I >> bothered to post at all. It took me a while to distinguish between >> the >> several Mikes that posted on the previous forum - it was the short one >> that >> I figured out first - and I quit reading his responses. Especially >> when I >> realized that he really doesn't know it all, and that his technical >> guidance >> was flawed as often as it was correct. >> >> I know that the short is doing his best to put together his idea of a >> better >> POCA site. And I know it will offer a lot. No doubt. NTL, his >> amazing >> ability to piss folks off with his truly marginal interpersonal skills >> is >> well known, and totally inappropriate for a person in his position. >> POCA is not this forum - and, well, vice versa. 3 years ago, when my >> wife >> and I bought 5332, I likely would have put up with the shorts crap to >> get the face, but he is still my brother and >>> that >> would really piss off my mom. >>> >>> Just saying. >>> >>> Better that maybe we all just step away from the computer screen for >>> a >> while, there's a whole big world out there. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus the printer's right now. It will be >>>> his >> last issue. >>>> As an aside, Mike couldn't even put his own profile on the POCA >>>> website, even though he's on the BOD, because he's an associate >>>> member, >> not a "true " >>>> member according to whomever it was that he contacted about it. How >>>> do you like that? Makes him sound like a second class citizen. >>>> >>>> It's been a great 25 years, >>>> GoNancy Haney >>>> >>>> P.S. I listened in on the last BOD meeting last week and it was all >>>> I could do to keep my mouth shut. A monumental effort on my part. I >>>> could not believe my ears sometimes at what MS was saying. He is a >>>> real >> piece of work. >>>> >>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>> Nextiva vFAX >>>> Why Do You Still Have An Old Fax Machine? >>>> >>>> [11]http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5757934166446134075b2st03v uc >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> >>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not >>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list >>>> [12]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com >>>> [13]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >>>> >>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, >>>> etc.) use the links above. >>>> >>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward >>>> any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of >>>> the >> list. >>>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or >>>> approve the archiving of list messages. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> >>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not >>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list >>>> [14]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com >>>> [15]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >>>> >>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, >>>> etc.) use >> the links above. >>>> >>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward >>>> any >> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the >> list. >> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or >> approve >> the archiving of list messages. >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> >>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not >>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list >>>> [16]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com >>>> [17]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >>>> >>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, >>>> etc.) use >> the links above. >>>> >>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward >>>> any >> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the >> list. >> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or >> approve >> the archiving of list messages. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA >> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes >> DeTomaso mailing list >> [18]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com >> [19]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >> >> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) >> use the links above. >> >> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any >> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the >> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive >> or approve the archiving of list messages. > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > [20]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > [21]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. > > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > [22]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > [23]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [24]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [25]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com 2. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com? 3. mailto:cengles@cox.net 4. mailto:steve@snclocks.com 5. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com? 6. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 7. mailto:steve@snclocks.com 8. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com? 9. mailto:gonancy@juno.com 10. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 11. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5757934166446134075b2st03vuc 12. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 13. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 14. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 15. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 16. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 17. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 18. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 19. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 20. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 21. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 22. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 23. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 24. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 25. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
OK, he's not perfect, he often treats other people like they are insignificant peons, says hateful things about minorities, says things that cause you to shake your head and think he must be off his meds today, but hey, no one is perfect, I still won't vote for Hillary. OK, he's not perfect, he often treats other people like they are insignificant peons, says hateful things about minorities, says things that cause you to shake your head and think he must be off his meds today, but hey, no one is perfect, I still won't vote for Hillary. __________________________________________________________________
Pretty funny Ken. On 6/8/2016 3:04 PM, Ken Green via DeTomaso wrote:
OK, he's not perfect, he often treats other people like they are insignificant peons, says hateful things about minorities, says things that cause you to shake your head and think he must be off his meds today, but hey, no one is perfect, I still won't vote for Hillary. __________________________________________________________________
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Pretty funny Ken. On 6/8/2016 3:04 PM, Ken Green via DeTomaso wrote: OK, he's not perfect, he often treats other people like they are insignificant peons, says hateful things about minorities, says things that cause you to shake your head and think he must be off his meds today, but hey, no one is perfect, I still won't vote for Hillary. __________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [1]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [2]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the li nks above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message p osted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of lis t messages. References 1. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 2. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
Sorry couldn't help myself Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
On 9/06/2016, at 10:20, Dave <davel@emspace.com> wrote:
Pretty funny Ken.
On 6/8/2016 3:04 PM, Ken Green via DeTomaso wrote:
OK, he's not perfect, he often treats other people like they are insignificant peons, says hateful things about minorities, says things that cause you to shake your head and think he must be off his meds today, but hey, no one is perfect, I still won't vote for Hillary. __________________________________________________________________
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References
1. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 2. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________
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Car Club! Car Club. Keep your religion and politics to yourselves. It just instigates more crap. "A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan, stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!" Terry W. Himes JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory Dawn Spacecraft Team Rosetta Sequence Team Lead Phone: (818) 393-6261 Cell: (818) 653-8213 Fax: (818) 393-3147 thimes@jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:thimes@jpl.nasa.gov> 🇺🇸 From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com>> on behalf of Ed Mendez <edducati@mac.com<mailto:edducati@mac.com>> Date: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 3:23 PM To: Dave <davel@emspace.com<mailto:davel@emspace.com>> Cc: "detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Now, Off his meds? Sorry couldn't help myself Car Club! Car Club. Keep your religion and politics to yourselves. It just instigates more crap. "A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan, stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!" Terry W. Himes JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory Dawn Spacecraft Team Rosetta Sequence Team Lead Phone: (818) 393-6261 Cell: (818) 653-8213 Fax: (818) 393-3147 [1]thimes@jpl.nasa.gov From: DeTomaso <[2]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of Ed Mendez <[3]edducati@mac.com> Date: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 3:23 PM To: Dave <[4]davel@emspace.com> Cc: "[5]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com" <[6]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Now, Off his meds? Sorry couldn't help myself References 1. mailto:thimes@jpl.nasa.gov 2. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 3. mailto:edducati@mac.com 4. mailto:davel@emspace.com 5. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 6. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
I've said before that I'm leaving POCA when my membership expires - assuming I still feel the same way in December. I'm not going to make a dramatic exit. It's not like I'm selling my car or anything. I'm just not going to renew - simple as that. Reasons: 1. I don't like the way long-term members are being treated. They have put a lot of heart and soul into POCA. It's shameful how they have been treated. 2. I don't like the way Michael treats people that disagree with him. It reflects very poorly on POCA, and also on the board since the board lets him get away with it. 3. I don't like the discussions the board has in secrecy. If they are afraid to make those discussions public, they shouldn't have those discussions at all. 4. I don't want to receive mailings that are full of advertising. I receive a Porsche magazine and I used to receive one from the Viper Club. Both go in the trash, usually without being opened. I'm happy to see ads from the usual Pantera vendors, but gimme a break - seat covers? 5. I don't like the push for "you can't do XXX unless you are a fully paid member". I'm not suggesting that everything should be free, but it has gone too far. There are words for this. It's called being exclusive or inclusive. An inclusive club invites new and existing members to participate. An exclusive club says, "We don't want you or need you. You can only participate if you give us money." I know that isn't the intent, but that's how it is perceived. So, if there is a new Pantera owner that is considering joining the club, he can't go to a local club meeting until he pays $85? What about the website? You can't get past door #1 until you are a fully paid member? 6. There is no a local chapter near me. If I were still in Houston, I would stay in POCA - but only to support the local club. The national club does nothing for me. I know - I said I'm not making a dramatic exit, and then I listed 6 things. I only listed those things to help POCA deal with their problems. If I just left in December, POCA wouldn't know why I left. I'm not pissed or upset or anything like that. I'm disappointed, but that's about the extent of it. -- Will On 6/8/16 5:42 PM, "fastgrandma via DeTomaso" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
WELL SAID, SCOTT!! THANK YOU! You got right down to the bare bones of the issue.
-----Original Message----- > From: DeTomaso [[2]mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of [3]cengles@cox.net > Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 12:28 PM > To: [4]steve@snclocks.com > Cc: detomaso detomaso > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA > > Dear Stephen, > > > > A philosophical response to the question: > "....what POCA does for me.." > > > What the new POCA does for you is to give you more value for your membership and a better membership experience. > > > What the old POCA did with volunteers and enthusiasts in the days before the internet, was to provide a nationwide > organization that aided and abetted information and experience about the > difficulties and joys of owning a Pantera. The bright eyed amateurs > would type out newsletters and mail them. The newsletters and the > Profiles improved with time, but they both
what we needed - as I did in the past. Today - well, 5332 is a dream to >> drive, and I have this forum. Tell me again what POCA does for me - >> other >> than to remind me that some folk make terrible leaders? >> >> Stephen Nelson >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: DeTomaso [[5]mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On >> Behalf >> Of Thomas TAP:rnblom >> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 1:36 AM >> To: [6]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA >> >> 1) You can't do much about family, love it or hate it. >> >> 2) If you have an issue with a colleague, step away, if it is with >> management, get a new job >> >> 3) If you have an issue with the current leadership in a club you pay >> to be >> part of, then quitting, even temporarily, would at least send a fairly >> strong message that something is wrong, or else the club may not be >> for you anymore. >> >> As I've said before, I will likely not renew my POCA membership when >> it is >> due, and if I were ten years younger I would also get a new job. >> >> Life's too short to having to deal with a*holes. >> >> Thomas >> >>> Den 2016-06-08 kl. 08:48, skrev Ed Mendez:
Quitting is only going to hurt the club and the people in it who love >>> you. >> We are all family here. Quit because of one person you don't agree >> with? >> Quit because of a family member you don't get along with? If we all >> did that >> none of us would be working in our day jobs, or have a family at all. >>> >>> I assume punch my brother in
>> On 8/06/2016, at 17:14, Stephen <[7]steve@snclocks.com> wrote: >>> Dear GoNancy Haney - I can readily understand your letting go of >>>> your POCA membership - right now the leadership is proving to be >>>> just plain polarizing. Just don't let go of this forum! And, one >>>> day, when hoof in mouth is not so rampant you can perhaps rejoin. >>>> >>>> Stephen Nelson >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [[8]mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On >>>> Behalf Of [9]gonancy@juno.com >>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 8:38 PM >>>> To: [10]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com >>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] POCA >>>> Dear Forum, >>>> Even though I've just been a lurker and occasional poster and >>>> spellcheck nazi on the Forum since its inception, I wanted to put it >>>> out to the Pantera Community that I will be letting Judy McCartney >>>> know that I am ending my membership in POCA effective immediately. >>>> That means my associate member, the Profiles Editor, will be leaving >>>> also. Mike has the June issue at
Judy -----Original Message----- From: Scott Couchman via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To: Effie Richards <erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com> Cc: detomaso detomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Wed, Jun 8, 2016 2:31 pm Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Effie, I don't know what you do or did for a living, but I'm curious if after say 20 years of doing your job, having the respect of all your peers, they suddenly brought someone new in to manage you that treated you like KaKa ( I think that was your word), didn't listen to your recommendations, tried to take away your tools, didn't include you in the meetings to decide how you would do your job, said hateful things to you......and OBTW DIDN'T PAY YOU ANYTHING! How long would you stay in that job? These folks stayed 6 MONTHS!! I think they should get a statue erected in their honor. I don't know you.....hopefully we will get a chance to meet and hear each other's Pantera story, and I agree we need to try to find a way out of the darkness we're in right now, but I don't think it's fair to challenge these two POCA stalwarts to "shift through dislikes and focus on the actual great benefits of this group". Your Pantera Brother :-) > On Jun 8, 2016, at 1:34 PM, Effie Richards <[1]erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com> wrote: > > I like your philosophical response, Chuck! > > Our first known philosophers, Aristoteles, Socrates and Sophocleous, were my ancestors! > The Greek word means "friend (or lover) of wise thoughts" and being Greek, please, please, ignore as much as you don't like and focus on the positive of this website. > > Where else can you find great guys who know the DeTomaso brand so well and love the car so much, they have become experts in its challenging mechanism! Focus on your "friends of wise thoughts" - the Pantera philosophers, their wealth of knowledge and their spirit of sharing such and forget the other stuff. > > I have been a "victim" of bullying, discrimination and other negative actions (as many of us have at times), but I stood strong, proud and determined to learn a new language and culture at 23 and succeed in a business world that was destined for men only at the time. If I had allowed "words" to stop me, I would be nothing now. > > Be a part of the great group of Pantera owners who are your friends and many times mentors. You have more to gain by staying. Be patient, shift though "kaka" and focus on the CAR! > I am amazed how quickly solutions/answers arrive from so many when you have a dilemma or a question about your car, whatever it may be. It is so impressive, isn't it? > > I'm not trying to convince anyone to do something they don't want to do. I am just pointing out that we can all shift through dislikes and focus on to the actual great benefits of this group. > > Respectfully, > Effie Richards provided a framework for > Pantera owners across the nation to benefit from their fellow members. > Outside of southern California, it was the only therapy for being the > "Lone Ranger" in Enid, Oklahoma, for example. With the incorporation > of the Vegas Rally, a national meeting provided the faces to connect > with the names and the opportunity to socialize and build relationships. > Finally, the old Forum extended that to the internet with the results > that we all are familiar with. > > Currently, the new POCA offers all the high tech > satisfaction of digital cable attainment of various and sundry benefits. > > Historically, the old POCA was the foundation of > the relationships and friendships and Pantera ownership that we have > today. > > > > Philosophically yours, Chuck Engles > > >> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 8:51 AM, Stephen wrote: >> >> I believe that Thomas gets to the heart of the issue with the current >> POCA >> leader. There have been a number of times that MS has responded to >> posts I >> put out on there on the previous forum in a way that made me wonder >> why I >> bothered to post at all. It took me a while to distinguish between >> the >> several Mikes that posted on the previous forum - it was the short one >> that >> I figured out first - and I quit reading his responses. Especially >> when I >> realized that he really doesn't know it all, and that his technical >> guidance >> was flawed as often as it was correct. >> >> I know that the short is doing his best to put together his idea of a >> better >> POCA site. And I know it will offer a lot. No doubt. NTL, his >> amazing >> ability to piss folks off with his truly marginal interpersonal skills >> is >> well known, and totally inappropriate for a person in his position. >> POCA is not this forum - and, well, vice versa. 3 years ago, when my >> wife >> and I bought 5332, I likely would have put up with the shorts crap to >> get the face, but he is still my brother and >>> that >> would really piss off my mom. >>> >>> Just saying. >>> >>> Better that maybe we all just step away from the computer screen for >>> a >> while, there's a whole big world out there. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus the printer's right now. It will be >>>> his >> last issue. >>>> As an aside, Mike couldn't even put his own profile on the POCA >>>> website, even though he's on the BOD, because he's an associate >>>> member, >> not a "true " >>>> member according to whomever it was that he contacted about it. How >>>> do you like that? Makes him sound like a second class citizen. >>>> >>>> It's been a great 25 years, >>>> GoNancy Haney >>>> >>>> P.S. I listened in on the last BOD meeting last week and it was all >>>> I could do to keep my mouth shut. A monumental effort on my part. I >>>> could not believe my ears sometimes at what MS was saying. He is a >>>> real >> piece of work. >>>> >>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>> Nextiva vFAX >>>> Why Do You Still Have An Old Fax Machine? >>>> >>>> [11]http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5757934166446134075b2st03v uc >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> >>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not >>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list >>>> [12]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com >>>> [13]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >>>> >>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, >>>> etc.) use the links above. >>>> >>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward >>>> any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of >>>> the >> list. >>>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or >>>> approve the archiving of list messages. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> >>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not >>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list >>>> [14]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com >>>> [15]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >>>> >>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, >>>> etc.) use >> the links above. >>>> >>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward >>>> any >> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the >> list. >> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or >> approve >> the archiving of list messages. >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> >>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not >>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list >>>> [16]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com >>>> [17]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >>>> >>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, >>>> etc.) use >> the links above. >>>> >>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward >>>> any >> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the >> list. >> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or >> approve >> the archiving of list messages. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA >> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes >> DeTomaso mailing list >> [18]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com >> [19]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >> >> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) >> use the links above. >> >> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any >> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the >> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive >> or approve the archiving of list messages. > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > [20]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > [21]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. > > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > [22]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > [23]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [24]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [25]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
References
1. mailto:erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com 2. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com? 3. mailto:cengles@cox.net 4. mailto:steve@snclocks.com 5. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com? 6. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 7. mailto:steve@snclocks.com 8. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com? 9. mailto:gonancy@juno.com 10. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 11. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5757934166446134075b2st03vuc 12. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 13. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 14. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 15. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 16. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 17. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 18. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 19. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 20. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 21. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 22. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 23. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 24. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 25. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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Actually, Scott, I am glad you asked! It was in the 80s and early 90s, before harassment laws went into effect. Someone, less qualified, was brought in to be over me, a young mail in a 3-piece suit, actually to make the decisions I was making. I felt very blindsided and discussed it only to be told they would not fire me but all my managerial decision makings will be revoked and I was to be placed at a clerical desk, still getting paid, but with no authority!... I was not included in managerial meetings and my suggestions were not heard. Knowing I was better than the new person, and due to my insecurities back then, (new in this country, all my degrees were earned in Greece), plus the great retirement plan (401K type) I decided to stick it out, lighten my work load and wait patiently for the new person to fail! Which is exactly what happened a few short months later, which seemed like eternity to me. Bad decisions made by that person cost the company some large losses and things turned around, Ithat person was gone, I was reinstated with higher pay and I was recognized finally! I vowed back then that I would never, ever put up with something like that again! I have since moved up to the highest management position available and when my boss retired from being active in his own company and moved to NY, I was the one he trusted to handle all his affairs. I can now work part time, my own hours, sometimes from my home and I love it! Should I mention the degree of some of the harassment included having a vase full of roses thrown at me and wrenching me, among other things? No laws to protect me back then. I now have a voice and opinion of my own and nobody can do that to me again. I have finally been rewarded for my loyalty and character plus my great decision makings. So, yes, I have been through that, but I always handled things in a civil manner, without drama and remained respectful. 40 years later, I'm my own boss! I still don't have a statue erected which is fine with me! Patience and respect is what I still believe in. But I realize that not every one can endure a bad treatment like I did years ago nor would I expect it these days. That was a long time ago.... Sent from Effie's iPad
On Jun 8, 2016, at 2:31 PM, scottcouchman@yahoo.com wrote:
Effie, I don't know what you do or did for a living, but I'm curious if after say 20 years of doing your job, having the respect of all your peers, they suddenly brought someone new in to manage you that treated you like KaKa ( I think that was your word), didn't listen to your recommendations, tried to take away your tools, didn't include you in the meetings to decide how you would do your job, said hateful things to you......and OBTW DIDN'T PAY YOU ANYTHING! How long would you stay in that job? These folks stayed 6 MONTHS!! I think they should get a statue erected in their honor.
I don't know you.....hopefully we will get a chance to meet and hear each other's Pantera story, and I agree we need to try to find a way out of the darkness we're in right now, but I don't think it's fair to challenge these two POCA stalwarts to "shift through dislikes and focus on the actual great benefits of this group". Your Pantera Brother :-)
On Jun 8, 2016, at 1:34 PM, Effie Richards <erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com> wrote:
I like your philosophical response, Chuck!
Our first known philosophers, Aristoteles, Socrates and Sophocleous, were my ancestors! The Greek word means "friend (or lover) of wise thoughts" and being Greek, please, please, ignore as much as you don't like and focus on the positive of this website.
Where else can you find great guys who know the DeTomaso brand so well and love the car so much, they have become experts in its challenging mechanism! Focus on your "friends of wise thoughts" - the Pantera philosophers, their wealth of knowledge and their spirit of sharing such and forget the other stuff.
I have been a "victim" of bullying, discrimination and other negative actions (as many of us have at times), but I stood strong, proud and determined to learn a new language and culture at 23 and succeed in a business world that was destined for men only at the time. If I had allowed "words" to stop me, I would be nothing now.
Be a part of the great group of Pantera owners who are your friends and many times mentors. You have more to gain by staying. Be patient, shift though "kaka" and focus on the CAR! I am amazed how quickly solutions/answers arrive from so many when you have a dilemma or a question about your car, whatever it may be. It is so impressive, isn't it?
I'm not trying to convince anyone to do something they don't want to do. I am just pointing out that we can all shift through dislikes and focus on to the actual great benefits of this group.
Respectfully, Effie Richards
-----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of cengles@cox.net Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 12:28 PM To: steve@snclocks.com Cc: detomaso detomaso Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
Dear Stephen,
A philosophical response to the question: "....what POCA does for me.."
What the new POCA does for you is to give you more value for your membership and a better membership experience.
What the old POCA did with volunteers and enthusiasts in the days before the internet, was to provide a nationwide organization that aided and abetted information and experience about the difficulties and joys of owning a Pantera. The bright eyed amateurs would type out newsletters and mail them. The newsletters and the Profiles improved with time, but they both provided a framework for Pantera owners across the nation to benefit from their fellow members. Outside of southern California, it was the only therapy for being the "Lone Ranger" in Enid, Oklahoma, for example. With the incorporation of the Vegas Rally, a national meeting provided the faces to connect with the names and the opportunity to socialize and build relationships. Finally, the old Forum extended that to the internet with the results that we all are familiar with.
Currently, the new POCA offers all the high tech satisfaction of digital cable attainment of various and sundry benefits.
Historically, the old POCA was the foundation of the relationships and friendships and Pantera ownership that we have today.
Philosophically yours, Chuck Engles
On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 8:51 AM, Stephen wrote:
I believe that Thomas gets to the heart of the issue with the current POCA leader. There have been a number of times that MS has responded to posts I put out on there on the previous forum in a way that made me wonder why I bothered to post at all. It took me a while to distinguish between the several Mikes that posted on the previous forum - it was the short one that I figured out first - and I quit reading his responses. Especially when I realized that he really doesn't know it all, and that his technical guidance was flawed as often as it was correct.
I know that the short is doing his best to put together his idea of a better POCA site. And I know it will offer a lot. No doubt. NTL, his amazing ability to piss folks off with his truly marginal interpersonal skills is well known, and totally inappropriate for a person in his position. POCA is not this forum - and, well, vice versa. 3 years ago, when my wife and I bought 5332, I likely would have put up with the shorts crap to get what we needed - as I did in the past. Today - well, 5332 is a dream to drive, and I have this forum. Tell me again what POCA does for me - other than to remind me that some folk make terrible leaders?
Stephen Nelson
-----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Thomas Törnblom Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 1:36 AM To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
1) You can't do much about family, love it or hate it.
2) If you have an issue with a colleague, step away, if it is with management, get a new job
3) If you have an issue with the current leadership in a club you pay to be part of, then quitting, even temporarily, would at least send a fairly strong message that something is wrong, or else the club may not be for you anymore.
As I've said before, I will likely not renew my POCA membership when it is due, and if I were ten years younger I would also get a new job.
Life's too short to having to deal with a*holes.
Thomas
Den 2016-06-08 kl. 08:48, skrev Ed Mendez: Quitting is only going to hurt the club and the people in it who love you. We are all family here. Quit because of one person you don't agree with? Quit because of a family member you don't get along with? If we all did that none of us would be working in our day jobs, or have a family at all.
I assume punch my brother in the face, but he is still my brother and that would really piss off my mom.
Just saying.
Better that maybe we all just step away from the computer screen for a while, there's a whole big world out there.
Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
On 8/06/2016, at 17:14, Stephen <steve@snclocks.com> wrote:
Dear GoNancy Haney - I can readily understand your letting go of your POCA membership - right now the leadership is proving to be just plain polarizing. Just don't let go of this forum! And, one day, when hoof in mouth is not so rampant you can perhaps rejoin.
Stephen Nelson
-----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of gonancy@juno.com Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 8:38 PM To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: [DeTomaso] POCA
Dear Forum, Even though I've just been a lurker and occasional poster and spellcheck nazi on the Forum since its inception, I wanted to put it out to the Pantera Community that I will be letting Judy McCartney know that I am ending my membership in POCA effective immediately. That means my associate member, the Profiles Editor, will be leaving also. Mike has the June issue at the printer's right now. It will be his last issue. As an aside, Mike couldn't even put his own profile on the POCA website, even though he's on the BOD, because he's an associate member, not a "true " member according to whomever it was that he contacted about it. How do you like that? Makes him sound like a second class citizen.
It's been a great 25 years, GoNancy Haney
P.S. I listened in on the last BOD meeting last week and it was all I could do to keep my mouth shut. A monumental effort on my part. I could not believe my ears sometimes at what MS was saying. He is a real piece of work.
____________________________________________________________ Nextiva vFAX Why Do You Still Have An Old Fax Machine?
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Effie, If they did erect a statue in your honor, would it be an Effiegy? In your story, I am glad to see that taking the high road and patience paid off for you in the end. I guess in these situations you have 3 choices: 1) take no action, sit there and put up with it 2) leave/quit/move on to something else 3) do something about it to bring about a change (hopefully a positive change) My membership in POCA kinda comes & goes mainly based on when my car is on the road, right now I am not a member and Judy might tell you it's been years! Yeah, I know. My cars are still in Seattle & I am now in the San Diego area, but I hope to get them down here to my avocado farm this summer. I try to steer clear of (or at least not take sides in) the politics, the cliques (yes we have cliques here, it's human nature) and the explosive personalities... as I do not want to regret something I've said later on. I'll try to keep a smile and a positive attitude. I know who the ambassadors of the Pantera are, I know who my friends are and I know who will lend a hand when needed (that is most if not all of you, we are such a great group of people). Me, I will lend a hand to anyone (the good, the bad & the ugly... sorry I have spaghetti westerns on my mind) in need if I am able. I am so glad that this list allows all points of view, is free from any entity that may try to chill those voices & opinions and always has free advice for a 'freeloader' like me ;-) and I don't know why I am rambling, I only wanted to make that Effiegy joke! Roydon On 6/8/2016 6:56 PM, Effie Richards wrote:
Actually, Scott, I am glad you asked! It was in the 80s and early 90s, before harassment laws went into effect. Someone, less qualified, was brought in to be over me, a young mail in a 3-piece suit, actually to make the decisions I was making. I felt very blindsided and discussed it only to be told they would not fire me but all my managerial decision makings will be revoked and I was to be placed at a clerical desk, still getting paid, but with no authority!... I was not included in managerial meetings and my suggestions were not heard. Knowing I was better than the new person, and due to my insecurities back then, (new in this country, all my degrees were earned in Greece), plus the great retirement plan (401K type) I decided to stick it out, lighten my work load and wait patiently for the new person to fail! Which is exactly what happened a few short months later, which seemed like eternity to me. Bad decisions made by that person cost the company some large losses and things turned around, Ithat person was gone, I was reinstated with higher pay and I was recognized finally! I vowed back then that I would never, ever put up with something like that again! I have since moved up to the highest management position available and when my boss retired from being active in his own company and moved to NY, I was the one he trusted to handle all his affairs. I can now work part time, my own hours, sometimes from my home and I love it! Should I mention the degree of some of the harassment included having a vase full of roses thrown at me and wrenching me, among other things? No laws to protect me back then. I now have a voice and opinion of my own and nobody can do that to me again. I have finally been rewarded for my loyalty and character plus my great decision makings. So, yes, I have been through that, but I always handled things in a civil manner, without drama and remained respectful. 40 years later, I'm my own boss! I still don't have a statue erected which is fine with me! Patience and respect is what I still believe in. But I realize that not every one can endure a bad treatment like I did years ago nor would I expect it these days. That was a long time ago....
Sent from Effie's iPad
On Jun 8, 2016, at 2:31 PM, scottcouchman@yahoo.com wrote:
Effie, I don't know what you do or did for a living, but I'm curious if after say 20 years of doing your job, having the respect of all your peers, they suddenly brought someone new in to manage you that treated you like KaKa ( I think that was your word), didn't listen to your recommendations, tried to take away your tools, didn't include you in the meetings to decide how you would do your job, said hateful things to you......and OBTW DIDN'T PAY YOU ANYTHING! How long would you stay in that job? These folks stayed 6 MONTHS!! I think they should get a statue erected in their honor.
I don't know you.....hopefully we will get a chance to meet and hear each other's Pantera story, and I agree we need to try to find a way out of the darkness we're in right now, but I don't think it's fair to challenge these two POCA stalwarts to "shift through dislikes and focus on the actual great benefits of this group". Your Pantera Brother :-)
On Jun 8, 2016, at 1:34 PM, Effie Richards <erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com> wrote:
I like your philosophical response, Chuck!
Our first known philosophers, Aristoteles, Socrates and Sophocleous, were my ancestors! The Greek word means "friend (or lover) of wise thoughts" and being Greek, please, please, ignore as much as you don't like and focus on the positive of this website.
Where else can you find great guys who know the DeTomaso brand so well and love the car so much, they have become experts in its challenging mechanism! Focus on your "friends of wise thoughts" - the Pantera philosophers, their wealth of knowledge and their spirit of sharing such and forget the other stuff.
I have been a "victim" of bullying, discrimination and other negative actions (as many of us have at times), but I stood strong, proud and determined to learn a new language and culture at 23 and succeed in a business world that was destined for men only at the time. If I had allowed "words" to stop me, I would be nothing now.
Be a part of the great group of Pantera owners who are your friends and many times mentors. You have more to gain by staying. Be patient, shift though "kaka" and focus on the CAR! I am amazed how quickly solutions/answers arrive from so many when you have a dilemma or a question about your car, whatever it may be. It is so impressive, isn't it?
I'm not trying to convince anyone to do something they don't want to do. I am just pointing out that we can all shift through dislikes and focus on to the actual great benefits of this group.
Respectfully, Effie Richards
-----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of cengles@cox.net Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 12:28 PM To: steve@snclocks.com Cc: detomaso detomaso Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
Dear Stephen,
A philosophical response to the question: "....what POCA does for me.."
What the new POCA does for you is to give you more value for your membership and a better membership experience.
What the old POCA did with volunteers and enthusiasts in the days before the internet, was to provide a nationwide organization that aided and abetted information and experience about the difficulties and joys of owning a Pantera. The bright eyed amateurs would type out newsletters and mail them. The newsletters and the Profiles improved with time, but they both provided a framework for Pantera owners across the nation to benefit from their fellow members. Outside of southern California, it was the only therapy for being the "Lone Ranger" in Enid, Oklahoma, for example. With the incorporation of the Vegas Rally, a national meeting provided the faces to connect with the names and the opportunity to socialize and build relationships. Finally, the old Forum extended that to the internet with the results that we all are familiar with.
Currently, the new POCA offers all the high tech satisfaction of digital cable attainment of various and sundry benefits.
Historically, the old POCA was the foundation of the relationships and friendships and Pantera ownership that we have today.
Philosophically yours, Chuck Engles
On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 8:51 AM, Stephen wrote:
I believe that Thomas gets to the heart of the issue with the current POCA leader. There have been a number of times that MS has responded to posts I put out on there on the previous forum in a way that made me wonder why I bothered to post at all. It took me a while to distinguish between the several Mikes that posted on the previous forum - it was the short one that I figured out first - and I quit reading his responses. Especially when I realized that he really doesn't know it all, and that his technical guidance was flawed as often as it was correct.
I know that the short is doing his best to put together his idea of a better POCA site. And I know it will offer a lot. No doubt. NTL, his amazing ability to piss folks off with his truly marginal interpersonal skills is well known, and totally inappropriate for a person in his position. POCA is not this forum - and, well, vice versa. 3 years ago, when my wife and I bought 5332, I likely would have put up with the shorts crap to get what we needed - as I did in the past. Today - well, 5332 is a dream to drive, and I have this forum. Tell me again what POCA does for me - other than to remind me that some folk make terrible leaders?
Stephen Nelson
-----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Thomas Törnblom Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 1:36 AM To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
1) You can't do much about family, love it or hate it.
2) If you have an issue with a colleague, step away, if it is with management, get a new job
3) If you have an issue with the current leadership in a club you pay to be part of, then quitting, even temporarily, would at least send a fairly strong message that something is wrong, or else the club may not be for you anymore.
As I've said before, I will likely not renew my POCA membership when it is due, and if I were ten years younger I would also get a new job.
Life's too short to having to deal with a*holes.
Thomas
Den 2016-06-08 kl. 08:48, skrev Ed Mendez: Quitting is only going to hurt the club and the people in it who love you. We are all family here. Quit because of one person you don't agree with? Quit because of a family member you don't get along with? If we all did that none of us would be working in our day jobs, or have a family at all. I assume punch my brother in the face, but he is still my brother and that would really piss off my mom. Just saying.
Better that maybe we all just step away from the computer screen for a while, there's a whole big world out there.
Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
On 8/06/2016, at 17:14, Stephen <steve@snclocks.com> wrote:
Dear GoNancy Haney - I can readily understand your letting go of your POCA membership - right now the leadership is proving to be just plain polarizing. Just don't let go of this forum! And, one day, when hoof in mouth is not so rampant you can perhaps rejoin.
Stephen Nelson
-----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of gonancy@juno.com Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 8:38 PM To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: [DeTomaso] POCA
Dear Forum, Even though I've just been a lurker and occasional poster and spellcheck nazi on the Forum since its inception, I wanted to put it out to the Pantera Community that I will be letting Judy McCartney know that I am ending my membership in POCA effective immediately. That means my associate member, the Profiles Editor, will be leaving also. Mike has the June issue at the printer's right now. It will be his last issue. As an aside, Mike couldn't even put his own profile on the POCA website, even though he's on the BOD, because he's an associate member, not a "true " member according to whomever it was that he contacted about it. How do you like that? Makes him sound like a second class citizen.
It's been a great 25 years, GoNancy Haney
P.S. I listened in on the last BOD meeting last week and it was all I could do to keep my mouth shut. A monumental effort on my part. I could not believe my ears sometimes at what MS was saying. He is a real piece of work. ____________________________________________________________ Nextiva vFAX Why Do You Still Have An Old Fax Machine?
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Roydon, As I mentioned, I was very insecure about being a foreign citizen educated outside of the US plus a mother of two with a mortgage so I took Option (1). Do I have regrets about that? I did but I'm over it now. I did not have the confidence back then. I would definitely go with Option (3) today and a lawsuit!.... I also live in San Diego! Effiegy! Sent from Effie's iPad
On Jun 8, 2016, at 8:13 PM, MyCars <mycars@comcast.net> wrote:
Effie, If they did erect a statue in your honor, would it be an Effiegy? In your story, I am glad to see that taking the high road and patience paid off for you in the end. I guess in these situations you have 3 choices: 1) take no action, sit there and put up with it 2) leave/quit/move on to something else 3) do something about it to bring about a change (hopefully a positive change)
My membership in POCA kinda comes & goes mainly based on when my car is on the road, right now I am not a member and Judy might tell you it's been years! Yeah, I know. My cars are still in Seattle & I am now in the San Diego area, but I hope to get them down here to my avocado farm this summer.
I try to steer clear of (or at least not take sides in) the politics, the cliques (yes we have cliques here, it's human nature) and the explosive personalities... as I do not want to regret something I've said later on.
I'll try to keep a smile and a positive attitude. I know who the ambassadors of the Pantera are, I know who my friends are and I know who will lend a hand when needed (that is most if not all of you, we are such a great group of people). Me, I will lend a hand to anyone (the good, the bad & the ugly... sorry I have spaghetti westerns on my mind) in need if I am able.
I am so glad that this list allows all points of view, is free from any entity that may try to chill those voices & opinions and always has free advice for a 'freeloader' like me ;-)
and I don't know why I am rambling, I only wanted to make that Effiegy joke!
Roydon
On 6/8/2016 6:56 PM, Effie Richards wrote: Actually, Scott, I am glad you asked! It was in the 80s and early 90s, before harassment laws went into effect. Someone, less qualified, was brought in to be over me, a young mail in a 3-piece suit, actually to make the decisions I was making. I felt very blindsided and discussed it only to be told they would not fire me but all my managerial decision makings will be revoked and I was to be placed at a clerical desk, still getting paid, but with no authority!... I was not included in managerial meetings and my suggestions were not heard. Knowing I was better than the new person, and due to my insecurities back then, (new in this country, all my degrees were earned in Greece), plus the great retirement plan (401K type) I decided to stick it out, lighten my work load and wait patiently for the new person to fail! Which is exactly what happened a few short months later, which seemed like eternity to me. Bad decisions made by that person cost the company some large losses and things turned around, Ithat person was gone, I was reinstated with higher pay and I was recognized finally! I vowed back then that I would never, ever put up with something like that again! I have since moved up to the highest management position available and when my boss retired from being active in his own company and moved to NY, I was the one he trusted to handle all his affairs. I can now work part time, my own hours, sometimes from my home and I love it! Should I mention the degree of some of the harassment included having a vase full of roses thrown at me and wrenching me, among other things? No laws to protect me back then. I now have a voice and opinion of my own and nobody can do that to me again. I have finally been rewarded for my loyalty and character plus my great decision makings. So, yes, I have been through that, but I always handled things in a civil manner, without drama and remained respectful. 40 years later, I'm my own boss! I still don't have a statue erected which is fine with me! Patience and respect is what I still believe in. But I realize that not every one can endure a bad treatment like I did years ago nor would I expect it these days. That was a long time ago....
Sent from Effie's iPad
On Jun 8, 2016, at 2:31 PM, scottcouchman@yahoo.com wrote:
Effie, I don't know what you do or did for a living, but I'm curious if after say 20 years of doing your job, having the respect of all your peers, they suddenly brought someone new in to manage you that treated you like KaKa ( I think that was your word), didn't listen to your recommendations, tried to take away your tools, didn't include you in the meetings to decide how you would do your job, said hateful things to you......and OBTW DIDN'T PAY YOU ANYTHING! How long would you stay in that job? These folks stayed 6 MONTHS!! I think they should get a statue erected in their honor.
I don't know you.....hopefully we will get a chance to meet and hear each other's Pantera story, and I agree we need to try to find a way out of the darkness we're in right now, but I don't think it's fair to challenge these two POCA stalwarts to "shift through dislikes and focus on the actual great benefits of this group". Your Pantera Brother :-)
On Jun 8, 2016, at 1:34 PM, Effie Richards <erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com> wrote:
I like your philosophical response, Chuck!
Our first known philosophers, Aristoteles, Socrates and Sophocleous, were my ancestors! The Greek word means "friend (or lover) of wise thoughts" and being Greek, please, please, ignore as much as you don't like and focus on the positive of this website.
Where else can you find great guys who know the DeTomaso brand so well and love the car so much, they have become experts in its challenging mechanism! Focus on your "friends of wise thoughts" - the Pantera philosophers, their wealth of knowledge and their spirit of sharing such and forget the other stuff.
I have been a "victim" of bullying, discrimination and other negative actions (as many of us have at times), but I stood strong, proud and determined to learn a new language and culture at 23 and succeed in a business world that was destined for men only at the time. If I had allowed "words" to stop me, I would be nothing now.
Be a part of the great group of Pantera owners who are your friends and many times mentors. You have more to gain by staying. Be patient, shift though "kaka" and focus on the CAR! I am amazed how quickly solutions/answers arrive from so many when you have a dilemma or a question about your car, whatever it may be. It is so impressive, isn't it?
I'm not trying to convince anyone to do something they don't want to do. I am just pointing out that we can all shift through dislikes and focus on to the actual great benefits of this group.
Respectfully, Effie Richards
-----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of cengles@cox.net Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 12:28 PM To: steve@snclocks.com Cc: detomaso detomaso Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
Dear Stephen,
A philosophical response to the question: "....what POCA does for me.."
What the new POCA does for you is to give you more value for your membership and a better membership experience.
What the old POCA did with volunteers and enthusiasts in the days before the internet, was to provide a nationwide organization that aided and abetted information and experience about the difficulties and joys of owning a Pantera. The bright eyed amateurs would type out newsletters and mail them. The newsletters and the Profiles improved with time, but they both provided a framework for Pantera owners across the nation to benefit from their fellow members. Outside of southern California, it was the only therapy for being the "Lone Ranger" in Enid, Oklahoma, for example. With the incorporation of the Vegas Rally, a national meeting provided the faces to connect with the names and the opportunity to socialize and build relationships. Finally, the old Forum extended that to the internet with the results that we all are familiar with.
Currently, the new POCA offers all the high tech satisfaction of digital cable attainment of various and sundry benefits.
Historically, the old POCA was the foundation of the relationships and friendships and Pantera ownership that we have today.
Philosophically yours, Chuck Engles
On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 8:51 AM, Stephen wrote:
I believe that Thomas gets to the heart of the issue with the current POCA leader. There have been a number of times that MS has responded to posts I put out on there on the previous forum in a way that made me wonder why I bothered to post at all. It took me a while to distinguish between the several Mikes that posted on the previous forum - it was the short one that I figured out first - and I quit reading his responses. Especially when I realized that he really doesn't know it all, and that his technical guidance was flawed as often as it was correct.
I know that the short is doing his best to put together his idea of a better POCA site. And I know it will offer a lot. No doubt. NTL, his amazing ability to piss folks off with his truly marginal interpersonal skills is well known, and totally inappropriate for a person in his position. POCA is not this forum - and, well, vice versa. 3 years ago, when my wife and I bought 5332, I likely would have put up with the shorts crap to get what we needed - as I did in the past. Today - well, 5332 is a dream to drive, and I have this forum. Tell me again what POCA does for me - other than to remind me that some folk make terrible leaders?
Stephen Nelson
-----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Thomas Törnblom Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 1:36 AM To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
1) You can't do much about family, love it or hate it.
2) If you have an issue with a colleague, step away, if it is with management, get a new job
3) If you have an issue with the current leadership in a club you pay to be part of, then quitting, even temporarily, would at least send a fairly strong message that something is wrong, or else the club may not be for you anymore.
As I've said before, I will likely not renew my POCA membership when it is due, and if I were ten years younger I would also get a new job.
Life's too short to having to deal with a*holes.
Thomas
Den 2016-06-08 kl. 08:48, skrev Ed Mendez: Quitting is only going to hurt the club and the people in it who love you. We are all family here. Quit because of one person you don't agree with? Quit because of a family member you don't get along with? If we all did that none of us would be working in our day jobs, or have a family at all. I assume punch my brother in the face, but he is still my brother and that would really piss off my mom. Just saying.
Better that maybe we all just step away from the computer screen for a while, there's a whole big world out there.
Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
> On 8/06/2016, at 17:14, Stephen <steve@snclocks.com> wrote: > > Dear GoNancy Haney - I can readily understand your letting go of > your POCA membership - right now the leadership is proving to be > just plain polarizing. Just don't let go of this forum! And, one > day, when hoof in mouth is not so rampant you can perhaps rejoin. > > Stephen Nelson > > -----Original Message----- > From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On > Behalf Of gonancy@juno.com > Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 8:38 PM > To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com > Subject: [DeTomaso] POCA > > Dear Forum, > Even though I've just been a lurker and occasional poster and > spellcheck nazi on the Forum since its inception, I wanted to put it > out to the Pantera Community that I will be letting Judy McCartney > know that I am ending my membership in POCA effective immediately. > That means my associate member, the Profiles Editor, will be leaving > also. Mike has the June issue at the printer's right now. It will be > his last issue. > As an aside, Mike couldn't even put his own profile on the POCA > website, even though he's on the BOD, because he's an associate > member, not a "true " > member according to whomever it was that he contacted about it. How > do you like that? Makes him sound like a second class citizen. > > It's been a great 25 years, > GoNancy Haney > > P.S. I listened in on the last BOD meeting last week and it was all > I could do to keep my mouth shut. A monumental effort on my part. I > could not believe my ears sometimes at what MS was saying. He is a > real piece of work. > ____________________________________________________________ > Nextiva vFAX > Why Do You Still Have An Old Fax Machine? > > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5757934166446134075b2st03vuc > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not > exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list > DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, > etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward > any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of > the list. > They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or > approve the archiving of list messages. > > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not > exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list > DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, > etc.) use the links above. > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward > any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. > > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not > exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list > DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, > etc.) use the links above. > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward > any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
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Thank you Effie ! Very well said. --Ed -----Original Message----- From: Effie Richards [mailto:erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 4:34 PM To: cengles@cox.net; steve@snclocks.com Cc: 'detomaso detomaso' Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA I like your philosophical response, Chuck! Our first known philosophers, Aristoteles, Socrates and Sophocleous, were my ancestors! The Greek word means "friend (or lover) of wise thoughts" and being Greek, please, please, ignore as much as you don't like and focus on the positive of this website. Where else can you find great guys who know the DeTomaso brand so well and love the car so much, they have become experts in its challenging mechanism! Focus on your "friends of wise thoughts" - the Pantera philosophers, their wealth of knowledge and their spirit of sharing such and forget the other stuff. I have been a "victim" of bullying, discrimination and other negative actions (as many of us have at times), but I stood strong, proud and determined to learn a new language and culture at 23 and succeed in a business world that was destined for men only at the time. If I had allowed "words" to stop me, I would be nothing now. Be a part of the great group of Pantera owners who are your friends and many times mentors. You have more to gain by staying. Be patient, shift though "kaka" and focus on the CAR! I am amazed how quickly solutions/answers arrive from so many when you have a dilemma or a question about your car, whatever it may be. It is so impressive, isn't it? I'm not trying to convince anyone to do something they don't want to do. I am just pointing out that we can all shift through dislikes and focus on to the actual great benefits of this group. Respectfully, Effie Richards -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of cengles@cox.net Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 12:28 PM To: steve@snclocks.com Cc: detomaso detomaso Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Dear Stephen, A philosophical response to the question: "....what POCA does for me.." What the new POCA does for you is to give you more value for your membership and a better membership experience. What the old POCA did with volunteers and enthusiasts in the days before the internet, was to provide a nationwide organization that aided and abetted information and experience about the difficulties and joys of owning a Pantera. The bright eyed amateurs would type out newsletters and mail them. The newsletters and the Profiles improved with time, but they both provided a framework for Pantera owners across the nation to benefit from their fellow members. Outside of southern California, it was the only therapy for being the "Lone Ranger" in Enid, Oklahoma, for example. With the incorporation of the Vegas Rally, a national meeting provided the faces to connect with the names and the opportunity to socialize and build relationships. Finally, the old Forum extended that to the internet with the results that we all are familiar with. Currently, the new POCA offers all the high tech satisfaction of digital cable attainment of various and sundry benefits. Historically, the old POCA was the foundation of the relationships and friendships and Pantera ownership that we have today. Philosophically yours, Chuck Engles On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 8:51 AM, Stephen wrote:
I believe that Thomas gets to the heart of the issue with the current POCA leader. There have been a number of times that MS has responded to posts I put out on there on the previous forum in a way that made me wonder why I bothered to post at all. It took me a while to distinguish between the several Mikes that posted on the previous forum - it was the short one that I figured out first - and I quit reading his responses. Especially when I realized that he really doesn't know it all, and that his technical guidance was flawed as often as it was correct.
I know that the short is doing his best to put together his idea of a better POCA site. And I know it will offer a lot. No doubt. NTL, his amazing ability to piss folks off with his truly marginal interpersonal skills is well known, and totally inappropriate for a person in his position. POCA is not this forum - and, well, vice versa. 3 years ago, when my wife and I bought 5332, I likely would have put up with the shorts crap to get what we needed - as I did in the past. Today - well, 5332 is a dream to drive, and I have this forum. Tell me again what POCA does for me - other than to remind me that some folk make terrible leaders?
Stephen Nelson
-----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Thomas Törnblom Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 1:36 AM To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
1) You can't do much about family, love it or hate it.
2) If you have an issue with a colleague, step away, if it is with management, get a new job
3) If you have an issue with the current leadership in a club you pay to be part of, then quitting, even temporarily, would at least send a fairly strong message that something is wrong, or else the club may not be for you anymore.
As I've said before, I will likely not renew my POCA membership when it is due, and if I were ten years younger I would also get a new job.
Life's too short to having to deal with a*holes.
Thomas
Quitting is only going to hurt the club and the people in it who love you. We are all family here. Quit because of one person you don't agree with? Quit because of a family member you don't get along with? If we all did that none of us would be working in our day jobs, or have a family at all.
I assume punch my brother in the face, but he is still my brother and that would really piss off my mom.
Just saying.
Better that maybe we all just step away from the computer screen for a while, there's a whole big world out there.
Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
On 8/06/2016, at 17:14, Stephen <steve@snclocks.com> wrote:
Dear GoNancy Haney - I can readily understand your letting go of your POCA membership - right now the leadership is proving to be just plain polarizing. Just don't let go of this forum! And, one day, when hoof in mouth is not so rampant you can perhaps rejoin.
Stephen Nelson
-----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of gonancy@juno.com Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 8:38 PM To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: [DeTomaso] POCA
Dear Forum, Even though I've just been a lurker and occasional poster and spellcheck nazi on the Forum since its inception, I wanted to put it out to the Pantera Community that I will be letting Judy McCartney know that I am ending my membership in POCA effective immediately. That means my associate member, the Profiles Editor, will be leaving also. Mike has the June issue at the printer's right now. It will be his last issue. As an aside, Mike couldn't even put his own profile on the POCA website, even though he's on the BOD, because he's an associate member, not a "true " member according to whomever it was that he contacted about it. How do you like that? Makes him sound like a second class citizen.
It's been a great 25 years, GoNancy Haney
P.S. I listened in on the last BOD meeting last week and it was all I could do to keep my mouth shut. A monumental effort on my part. I could not believe my ears sometimes at what MS was saying. He is a real
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Den 2016-06-08 kl. 08:48, skrev Ed Mendez: piece of work. list. the links above. list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. the links above. list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
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participants (12)
-
cengles＠cox.net -
Dave -
Ed Lyerly -
Ed Mendez -
Effie Richards -
fastgrandma -
Himes, Terry (397C) -
Ken Green -
MyCars -
scottcouchman＠yahoo.com -
Stephen -
Will Kooiman