Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
Dear Dick, Stephen, Ken, Judy and Larry: Amen. Warmest regards, Chuck Engles -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Dick Koch Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 5:46 PM To: Stephen Cc: detomaso; laurie Basile Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations Stephen, thank you for saying what I was about to say. If folks want to continue to rant about this, do the courteous thing, do it offline and don't burden the rest of the world with a subject that the BOD will hopefully sort out and do the right thing, putting personality conflicts aside and implementing the needed changes to improve the club. Dick Koch - Atlanta On Aug 16, 2016 2:28 PM, "Stephen" <steve@snclocks.com> wrote:
So, when, exactly, did we stop beating our spouses???
Effie - gads - you have the names of the printers! Call them - short of that I can assure you any good photographer can modify a document so you will not be able to know what is real and what is not.
Let's stop the witch hunt - look at the folks who stood up to the shortt. Think about how long they have been a part of POCA. Are they out for personal gain in standing up to a person who made way too many folks want to quit?
If you or others wish to continue the witch hunt - please start a new thread, with the initials MS in front of the subject. That way I can route all e-mails associated with the thread to my trash bin.
I'm going to go back to working on 5332 and hope this whole nightmare will just go away.
Stephen Nelson
-----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Effie Richards Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 10:30 AM To: 'Charles McCall' <charlesmccall@gmail.com>; 'marshallgsmith' <marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net> Cc: 'detomaso' <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>; 'laurie Basile' <laurieferrari@aol.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
Where are the actual proposals/quotes from the printers, not the ones the editor posted here. Those as they appear, could have been manipulated - I'm not accusing anyone, I am just saying, as any court would say - an experienced editor like Jack could add or delete to create and post what he did here. Since there are many still questioning the printer cost, let's see the actual bids.
From: Charles McCall [[1]mailto:charlesmccall@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 12:08 AM
To: marshallgsmith
Cc: Michael Haney; Judith McCartney; Effie Richards; Julian Kift; detomaso; laurie Basile
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
You did all read the info sent by Judy McCartney last week with Jack's explanation?
Re-sent here in case you didn't see it. Please open the attachment - I promise no viruses are included
On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 8:20 AM, marshallgsmith <[2]marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Hey Michael,
I think the best way to put this controversy to bed is if you or your
dad could speak about not being cooperative in regards to the the use
of another printer that supposedly afforded the club an $8,000 savings.
That really seems to be the only issue that continues this controversy
and I still haven't heard either of you discuss the allegation. I'm
sure your response will cut this thread for good and allow us all to
move on with the rebuilding of this great club.
Marshall Smith
President, San Diego Panteras
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: Michael Haney <[3]paso750@gmail.com>
Date: 8/15/16 10:36 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: 'Judith McCartney' <[4]jpoca2@hotmail.com>, 'Effie Richards'
<[5]erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com>, 'Julian Kift'
<[6]julian_kift@hotmail.com>
Cc: [7]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com, 'laurie Basile'
<[8]laurieferrari@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
Thank you very much, Judy.
I really wish this thread would just die.
I know that this isn't the answer you're fishing for, but it'll have to
do
since it's the truth.
Nancy quit and took her associate (me) with her because she was tired
of
hearing from me all about Shortt's efforts to take over every aspect of
POCA.
I didn't fight her decision because I was in turn tired of Shortt's
intimidation and bullying tactics. Frankly, being on the Board wasn't
fun
anymore and I was also very tired of Shortt's constant preening.
As a matter of record, I resigned from the Board BEFORE Profiles #3
even
went to the printer. I had nearly finished it and decided that I didn't
want
to let the POCA members down. I really didn't want to contribute any
more to
Shortt's regime, but my conscience won.
Even after I sent the magazine in, I still had to deal with Shortt. He
decided to interfere with the printer, sent them a database with a
whole
bunch of problematic info and threaten nonpayment if he didn't get
preliminary proofs. How do I know this? I received a call while I was
at
work from the woman working in Allegra Printing's mail room. She called
Shortt and he wouldn't help her with the database and ignored her
questions.
Having no one else to call, she called me. I in turn contacted Judy,
our
Membership Director, who fixed the problems that Shortt created.
Regarding Shortt's allegations of graft, if anyone can find a
connection
between my family and anyone who EVER worked at Allegra Printing in
Reno,
Nevada, (or indeed any of Allegra's branches) please let me know.
My Dad might respond as well, but he's been pretty busy caring for my
SERIOUSLY ill Mom who was in the hospital for the last two weeks and
who
might finally be able to come back home in a couple more.
Now, can we finally put this "controversy" to rest?
Mike Haney
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [[9]mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On
Behalf
Of Judith McCartney
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 8:44 PM
To: Effie Richards; Julian Kift
Cc: [10]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com; laurie Basile
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
Mike Haney gave his resignation months way head of Jacks, two diff
reasons.
Judith McCartney, Membership Director & Fun Rally coordinator.
> From: [11]erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com
> Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 18:43:43 -0700
> To: [12]julian_kift@hotmail.com
> CC: [13]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com; [14]laurieferrari@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
>
> Julian these are the same questions some of us have had and have been
waiting for a reply or statement. I'm willing to give the board some
time to
come up with one.
>
> Sent from Effie's iPad
>
> > On Aug 15, 2016, at 6:29 PM, Julian Kift <[15]julian_kift@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> >
> > I have digested all the emails on this topic and to be honest it
still
> > doesn't sit well in my gut.
> >
> >
> > Presumably the BOD voted in favor of changing printers based upon
the
> > quotes presented. Did they not have all the facts and
> > if not why did they not question further? Did Jack have all the
facts
w
> > hen he resigned or were his and Mike Haney's resignations simply
an
> > outright stand against changing printer?
> >
> >
> > Why did Michael push to change printer if he knew there was only
> > pennies between it?
> >
> >
> > Julian
> >
__________________________________________________________________
> >
> > From: DeTomaso <[16]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com> on
behalf of
> > marshall smith <[17]marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net>
> > Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 10:11 AM
> > To: [18]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com; [19]laurieferrari@aol.com
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
> >
> > I find it funny that three months after the Fun Rally we are now
> > hearing that Shortt's bid for printing did not include shipping.
Shortt
> > is a lot of things but a mistake like this...?
> > I was listening in on this meeting also and I know what I heard.
> > Apparently, the board convinced 'some' members of this so-called
> > discrepancy month's ago. Why wasn't this information, if it
exists,
> > relayed to ALL of us in a timely manner?
> > Marshall
> >
> > --------------------------------------------
> > On Mon, 8/15/16, Laurie Ferrari via DeTomaso
> > <[20]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
> > To: [21]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
> > Date: Monday, August 15, 2016, 9:57 AM
> >
> > Dear AJ,
> >
> > I have always respected you and your
> > opinions but in this case you are
> > incorrect as far as the resignation of
> > Jack DeRyke. I was on the Board
> > of Directors' conference call where he was
> > asked to stay and he
> > adamantly refused to if the printer
> > changed. Jack's resignation was
> > specifically because of the change in
> > printer! You can go research
> > that phone conference call, or the minutes
> > of the meeting, as the facts
> > are saved. As far as Mike Haney's
> > resignation, that was done by his
> > Mrs. for their reasons which most likely
> > were aligned with their
> > parents.
> >
> > Laurie
> >
> > In a message dated 8/13/2016
> > 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,?
> > [1][22]asajay@asajay.com
> > writes:
> > The last? I heard (and I may have
> > heard wrong), the board was
> > interested
> > in doing a? -real- accounting
> > comparison of printing costs, so for
> > me,
> > it's a wait and? see kind of
> > thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing
> > out on
> > full-color? and paying $8,000 more
> > for B/W then something is amiss.?
> > However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt
> > didn't account for all costs
> > properly.? I? have more faith that
> > the present board members will
> > properly investigate? and sort it
> > out for everyone.
> > I am on-board with electronic
> > delivery,? though I do admit it's nice
> > to
> > just sit back and read a paper
> > copy? too.? It's also easier to
> > hand-off
> > to Sam so he can read it? later.?
> > How do you really fix that?
> > I would think (and I don't? know),
> > that the ClubExpress membership
> > database might be able to include
> > a? "preference" as part of the
> > member's
> > profile or details.? Just as I? can
> > set an address and phone number,
> > if I
> > could check a box for Electronic?
> > delivery or paper copies, or both,
> > and
> > select whatever I wanted for each?
> > item (Profiles versus
> > Newsletter),
> > that might be ideal.
> > However,? I'm also familiar with
> > quantity discounting.? It very well
> > could be? that it costs the same
> > amount to print 500 as it does to
> > 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I
> > imagine those are considerations the
> > board will? look at as well.
> > Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie
> > has claimed, I have? heard (from
> > more
> > than one person), that Jack and
> > Mike did not resign? "because POCA
> > changed printers;" it was over
> > "control" of newsletter? content that
> > in
> > essence fell outside the bounds of
> > the by-laws.? For? a guy that
> > appeared
> > to try very hard to get everyone
> > else to follow the? by-laws (and
> > it's
> > unwritten code of ethics), Mr.
> > Shortt certainly didn't? feel they
> > applied
> > to him.
> > For the record, as I understand it,
> > POCA? has changed printers
> > -twice-
> > since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
> > related? to the DeRykes) got out
> > of
> > the business.? So the "family
> > tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not
> > a
> > factor in the resignations.
> > Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted
> > for inflation)
> > Asa? Jay
> > Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt,
> > USAFR, Retired
> > &? Shelley? Mar
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: detomaso-request
<[23]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com>
> > To: detomaso <[24]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
> > Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:00 am
> > Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue
> > 20
> > Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to
> > [2][25]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World
> > Wide Web, visit
> > [3][26]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > or, via email, send a message with subject
> > or body 'help' to
> > detomaso-[4][27]request@server.detomasolist.com
> > You can reach the person managing the list
> > at
> > detomaso-[5][28]owner@server.detomasolist.com
> > When replying, please edit your Subject
> > line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..."
> > Daily Detomaso List Digest
> > Today's Topics:
> > 1. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs.
> > electronic (marshallgsmith)
> > 2. Re: De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay!
> > again $250K!! (Michael Cox)
> > 3. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs.
> > electronic (Stephen)
> >
-------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ---
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:27:43 -0700
> > From: marshallgsmith <[6][29]marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net>
> > To: [7][30]P6746@aol.com, [8][31]asajay@asajay.com,
> > [9][32]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
> > paper vs. electronic
> > Message-ID:
> >
<[10][33]sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405@email.android.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> > I have a couple questions Bob:
> >> Calling this situation "multiple dues
> > levels" seems to be making the
> > issue too complex. There are some members
> > that are opting to not have
> > printed magazines mailed which should make
> > those members eligible for a
> > discount because of the savings.
> >> What is your estimate of the length
> > of time that it would take the
> > board to arrange for a vote of the
> > membership to change the bylaws to
> > allow for this discount?
> >> Who specifically made that
> > apples-to-apples comparison you refer to?
> >> I agree that the editors should have
> > the most influence ?on the
> > process. ?However, our editors of both
> > publications seem to have a hard
> > time reporting to the members about ANY
> > issues pertaining to the
> > publication's themselves. Might that
> > change in the near future or will
> > radio silence be the norm here?
> > Marshall Smith
> > Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
> > -------- Original message --------
> > From: P6746--- via DeTomaso
<[11][34]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
> > Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00)
> > To: [12][35]asajay@asajay.com,
> > [13][36]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
> > paper vs. electronic
> > To use a cliche, we're working on it.?
> > Most of what has been mentioned is in the
> > pipeline.?? However, there
> > are
> > restrictions, particularly with the
> > By-Laws as they currently? stand.?
> > There
> > are no provisions for multiple dues
> > levels,? particularly pertaining to
> > how a
> > member elects to have their club?
> > publications delivered, etc.? That
> > will
> > take time as any changes or? amendments
> > must be approved by the whole
> > membership.
> > The consensus seems to be that the
> > Profiles would? continue as a print
> > publication for all except foreign members
> > who elect to? receive it
> > digitally.?
> > As far as printing is concerned, it is
> > that first copy that is? so
> > expensive, it is the subsequent copies
> > that bring down the per unit?
> > cost.? So as
> > fewer units are produced and shipped, the
> > cost per unit? increases but
> > not
> > proportionately.??
> > An apples to apples comparison was made
> > between an online? printer and
> > the
> > current printer for both printing and
> > mailing and the difference? was
> > pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but
> > for the whole run.?
> > As far as I am concerned, it is the
> > editors who should have? the most
> > influence as to how and where their
> > product is produced.? They are? the
> > ones who
> > must work with the printers and mailing
> > houses on a regular? basis.
> > Bob Reid?
> > In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
> > Eastern Daylight Time,?
> > [14][37]asajay@asajay.com
> > writes:
> > The last? I heard (and I may have heard
> > wrong), the board was
> > interested
> > in doing a? -real- accounting comparison
> > of printing costs, so for me,
> > it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I
> > agree, if POCA was missing out
> > on
> > full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W
> > then something is amiss.?
> > However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't
> > account for all costs
> > properly.? I? have more faith that the
> > present board members will
> > properly investigate? and sort it out for
> > everyone.
> > I am on-board with electronic delivery,?
> > though I do admit it's nice to
> > just sit back and read a paper copy? too.?
> > It's also easier to hand-off
> > to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do
> > you really fix that?
> > I would think (and I don't? know), that
> > the ClubExpress membership
> > database might be able to include a?
> > "preference" as part of the
> > member's
> > profile or details.? Just as I? can set an
> > address and phone number, if
> > I
> > could check a box for Electronic? delivery
> > or paper copies, or both,
> > and
> > select whatever I wanted for each? item
> > (Profiles versus Newsletter),
> > that might be ideal.
> > However,? I'm also familiar with quantity
> > discounting.? It very well
> > could be? that it costs the same amount to
> > print 500 as it does to
> > 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine
> > those are considerations the
> > board will? look at as well.
> > Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has
> > claimed, I have? heard (from
> > more
> > than one person), that Jack and Mike did
> > not resign? "because POCA
> > changed printers;" it was over "control"
> > of newsletter? content that in
> > essence fell outside the bounds of the
> > by-laws.? For? a guy that
> > appeared
> > to try very hard to get everyone else to
> > follow the? by-laws (and it's
> > unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
> > certainly didn't? feel they
> > applied
> > to him.
> > For the record, as I understand it, POCA?
> > has changed printers -twice-
> > since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
> > related? to the DeRykes) got out of
> > the business.? So the "family tie-in"?
> > previously eluded to, was not a
> > factor in the resignations.
> > Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for
> > inflation)
> > Asa? Jay
> > Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR,
> > Retired
> > &? Shelley? Marie
> > Spokane,? WA
> > ******************************
> > [15][38]http://w7tsc.org
> > [16][39]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > Detomaso? Email List is not managed by
> > POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5?
> > Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing? list
> > [17][40]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com
> > [18][41]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > To? manage your subscription (change email
> > address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> > use
> > the? links above.
> > Members who post to this list grant
> > license to the list to? forward any
> > message posted here to all past, current,
> > or future members of the?
> > list. They
> > also grant the list owner permission to
> > maintain an archive or? approve
> > the
> > archiving of list? messages.
> > ?? To use a cliche, we're working on it.
> > ?? Most of what has been mentioned is in
> > the pipeline.? However, there
> > are
> > ?? restrictions, particularly with the
> > By-Laws as they currently stand.
> > ?? There are no provisions for multiple
> > dues levels,
> > ?? particularly pertaining to how a member
> > elects to have their club
> > ?? publications delivered, etc.? That will
> > take time as any changes or
> > ?? amendments must be approved by the
> > whole membership.
> > ?? The consensus seems to be that the
> > Profiles would continue as a
> > ?? publication for all except foreign
> > members who elect to receive it
> > ?? digitally.
> > ?? As far as printing is concerned, it is
> > that first copy that is so
> > ?? expensive, it is the subsequent copies
> > that bring down the per unit
> > ?? cost.? So as fewer units are produced
> > and shipped, the cost per unit
> > ?? increases but not proportionately.
> > ?? An apples to apples comparison was made
> > between an online printer
> > and
> > ?? the current printer for both printing
> > and mailing and the difference
> > ?? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per
> > unit but for the whole run.
> > ?? As far as I am concerned, it is the
> > editors who should have the most
> > ?? influence as to how and where their
> > product is produced.? They are
> > the
> > ?? ones who must work with the printers
> > and mailing houses on a regular
> > ?? basis.
> > ?? Bob Reid
> > ?? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24
> > P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> > ?? [19][42]asajay@asajay.com
> > writes:
> > ???? The last I heard (and I may have
> > heard wrong), the board was
> > ???? interested
> > ???? in doing a -real- accounting
> > comparison of printing costs, so for
> > ???? me,
> > ???? it's a wait and see kind of thing.? I
> > agree, if POCA was missing
> > out
> > ???? on
> > ???? full-color and paying $8,000 more for
> > B/W then something is amiss.
> > ???? However, I also believe Mr. Shortt
> > didn't account for all costs
> > ???? properly.? I have more faith that the
> > present board members will
> > ???? properly investigate and sort it out
> > for everyone.
> > ???? I am on-board with electronic
> > delivery, though I do admit it's
> > nice
> > ???? to
> > ???? just sit back and read a paper copy
> > too.? It's also easier to
> > ???? hand-off
> > ???? to Sam so he can read it later.? How
> > do you really fix that?
> > ???? I would think (and I don't know),
> > that the ClubExpress membership
> > ???? database might be able to include a
> > "preference" as part of the
> > ???? member's
> > ???? profile or details.? Just as I can
> > set an address and phone
> > number,
> > ???? if I
> > ???? could check a box for Electronic
> > delivery or paper copies, or
> > both,
> > ???? and
> > ???? select whatever I wanted for each
> > item (Profiles versus
> > Newsletter),
> > ???? that might be ideal.
> > ???? However, I'm also familiar with
> > quantity discounting.? It very
> > well
> > ???? could be that it costs the same
> > amount to print 500 as it does to
> > ???? 50, or 10 (but I doubt it).? I
> > imagine those are considerations
> > the
> > ???? board will look at as well.
> > ???? Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie
> > has claimed, I have heard (from
> > ???? more
> > ???? than one person), that Jack and Mike
> > did not resign "because POCA
> > ???? changed printers;" it was over
> > "control" of newsletter content
> > that
> > ???? in
> > ???? essence fell outside the bounds of
> > the by-laws.? For a guy that
> > ???? appeared
> > ???? to try very hard to get everyone else
> > to follow the by-laws (and
> > ???? it's
> > ???? unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
> > certainly didn't feel they
> > ???? applied
> > ???? to him.
> > ???? For the record, as I understand it,
> > POCA has changed printers
> > ???? -twice-
> > ???? since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
> > related to the DeRykes) got
> > out
> > ???? of
> > ???? the business.? So the "family tie-in"
> > previously eluded to, was
> > not
> > ???? a
> > ???? factor in the resignations.
> > ???? Just my $1.50? (two cents adjusted
> > for inflation)
> > ???? Asa? Jay
> > ???? Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt,
> > USAFR, Retired
> > ???? &? Shelley Marie
> > ???? Spokane, WA
> > ???? ******************************
> > ???? [20][43]http://w7tsc.org
> > ???? [21][44]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
> > ????
> > _______________________________________________
> > ???? Detomaso Email List is not managed by
> > POCA
> > ???? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
> > Megabytes
> > ???? DeTomaso mailing list
> > ???? [22][45]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com
> > ????
[23][46]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > ???? To manage your subscription (change
> > email address, unsubscribe,
> > ???? etc.) use the links above.
> > ???? Members who post to this list grant
> > license to the list to forward
> > ???? any message posted here to all past,
> > current, or future members of
> > ???? the list. They also grant the list
> > owner permission to maintain an
> > ???? archive or approve the archiving of
> > list messages.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Detomaso Email List is not managed by
> > POCA
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participants (1)
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Charles Engles