Absolutely zero DT content
Motorcycle ramblings with a question at the end.... The weather has been absolutely fantastic here for the past few weeks, so I have been using my motorcycle for my daily commute to and from work. It's recently back on the road after more or less being in storage for 18 years. It is true that long term storage isn't good for vehicles - either cars or motorcycles. I filled the tank up with gas and it all ran right on the floor... hoses that had disintegrated with time. Got that repaired. The gas on the floor was mixing with a massive oil leak caused by a gasket on the cam tensioner that dried out and cracked. Got that fixed. I'm glad my motorcycle is air-cooled or I know what would be leaking now! We didn't get off to a good start this year! The motorcycle is a 1982 Suzuki GS650, nothing particularly special but with a lot of sentimental value. I bought it when I was 19 and a college sophomore. I'd never been on a motorcycle in my life - neither as a passenger nor a driver. I walked into the local Suzuki dealer and said "I like that one, I'll buy it!" and paid for it with my visa card, at 19.6% interest. And I wonder why it took me so long to pay off my college loans? ;-) We went to the parking lot and the salesman told me "This is the clutch, here's how you change gears, this is the front brake....have fun!" And I learned how to drive on the way home. Ah, youth! The motorcycle has been all over the place. I went to Cornell University, in upstate NY, and my girlfriend at the time went to Michigan, so it made the trip many times. It's attended Sturgis (despite being a Japanese bike, but I drove it there unlike many of the Harleys!) prowled the streets of Chicago, etc. But it got put into storage when I moved to Europe and took a long time to catch up to me. It recently was made road-worthy and is still wearing US plates, although I'll have to fix that over the next year. It is very difficult and very expensive to insure a vehicle in Europe with US plates. But for those from the US or Canada attending Le Mans Classic - -IT CAN BE DONE! Anyway, my question. The tendency in race cars and sports cars is moving away from a manual transmission to an automatic. I know that isn't quite true but don't really care if there is still technically a clutch or not - if there isn't a clutch pedal inside, then it's an automatic! Why hasn't the same thing happened with motorcycles? Because the shift time on a motorcycle is already so short? Do racers even use the clutch on a race bike? The weight associated with the mechanism is a larger percentage of a light bike as opposed to a car? Just wondering this morning, as it was a nice morning for a ride and as there's no radio my mind went wandering... Motorcycle ramblings with a question at the end.... The weather has been absolutely fantastic here for the past few weeks, so I have been using my motorcycle for my daily commute to and from work. It's recently back on the road after more or less being in storage for 18 years. It is true that long term storage isn't good for vehicles - either cars or motorcycles. I filled the tank up with gas and it all ran right on the floor... hoses that had disintegrated with time. Got that repaired.A The gas on the floor was mixing with a massive oil leak caused by a gasket on the cam tensioner that dried out and cracked. Got that fixed.A I'm glad my motorcycle is air-cooled or I know what would be leaking now! We didn't get off to a good start this year! The motorcycle is a 1982 Suzuki GS650, nothing particularly special but with a lot of sentimental value. I bought it when I was 19 and a college sophomore. I'd never been on a motorcycle in my life - neither as a passenger nor a driver. I walked into the local Suzuki dealer and said "I like that one, I'll buy it!" and paid for it with my visa card, at 19.6% interest. And I wonder why it took me so long to pay off my college loans? ;-) We went to the parking lot and the salesman told me "This is the clutch, here's how you change gears, this is the front brake....have fun!" And I learned how to drive on the way home. Ah, youth! The motorcycle has been all over the place. I went to Cornell University, in upstate NY, and my girlfriend at the time went to Michigan, so it made the trip many times. It's attended Sturgis (despite being a Japanese bike, but I drove it there unlike many of the Harleys!) prowled the streets of Chicago, etc. But it got put into storage when I moved to Europe and took a long time to catch up to me. It recently was made road-worthy and is still wearing US plates, although I'll have to fix that over the next year. It is very difficult and very expensive to insure a vehicle in Europe with US plates. But for those from the US or Canada attending Le Mans Classic - -IT CAN BE DONE! Anyway, my question. The tendency in race cars and sports cars is moving away from a manual transmission to an automatic. I know that isn't quite true but don't really care if there is still technically a clutch or not - if there isn't a clutch pedal inside, then it's an automatic! Why hasn't the same thing happened with motorcycles? Because the shift time on a motorcycle is already so short? Do racers even use the clutch on a race bike? The weight associated with the mechanism is a larger percentage of a light bike as opposed to a car? A Just wondering this morning, as it was a nice morning for a ride and as there's no radio my mind went wandering...
Charles, Sounds like a fine motoring day. I drove my car to work Sunday for west coast preparations and after arriving I wondered if my back side was the same temp as the exhaust tips. Louisiana is just too hot this time of year. Your clutch use question brought back memories. We used to race motocross, enduros and flat track from about 69 to 76. Even raced a sponsored Husquvarna with an automatic trans. It used centrifugal clutches and basic gear pairs, very quick and easy to race. Your clutch point about weight and usage is valid. We would wrap the left handlebar with black electrical tape one strip wide but 10 or so wraps, then place a shortened, 4" long, hacksaw blade, on it in axis with the bar. Then more tape would tape the blade in place. More tape would cover the blade so to act as an insulator, then a wire would be run from it mount hole to the ignition hot side coil wire which connected to the magneto. A basic kill switch which we used as a safety, OH CRAP, switch and to momentarily left thumb push to ground the ignition so we could shift without touching the clutch lever. We were able to shift quicker because of the momentary power loss removed bauk ring shift ring loads. I though about removing the clutch drum and pack to save weight and just have the helical gear drive from crank to trans input. Not worth it as its weight was too minor compared to the worth of freedom the clutch lever allowed me. So instead I drilled the clutch drums to save weight, the Husquvarna, Maico, Puck, Carabella and Yamaha did rev up faster. Also if the race was wet you would always be quickly reawaken by 30,000 volt low amp zing from the wet kill switch. Also that switch allowed us to keep a tighter death grip on the handlebar with shorter shift times. Take care, Jeff Jeff Cobb- I pad W-225-343-7525 C-225-907-4514 Jeff Cobb Auto Works 1316 S. Acadian Thruway Baton Rouge, La. 70806 On Jul 29, 2016, at 2:45 AM, Charles McCall <charlesmccall@gmail.com> wrote:
Motorcycle ramblings with a question at the end.... The weather has been absolutely fantastic here for the past few weeks, so I have been using my motorcycle for my daily commute to and from work. It's recently back on the road after more or less being in storage for 18 years. It is true that long term storage isn't good for vehicles - either cars or motorcycles. I filled the tank up with gas and it all ran right on the floor... hoses that had disintegrated with time. Got that repaired.A The gas on the floor was mixing with a massive oil leak caused by a gasket on the cam tensioner that dried out and cracked. Got that fixed.A I'm glad my motorcycle is air-cooled or I know what would be leaking now! We didn't get off to a good start this year! The motorcycle is a 1982 Suzuki GS650, nothing particularly special but with a lot of sentimental value. I bought it when I was 19 and a college sophomore. I'd never been on a motorcycle in my life - neither as a passenger nor a driver. I walked into the local Suzuki dealer and said "I like that one, I'll buy it!" and paid for it with my visa card, at 19.6% interest. And I wonder why it took me so long to pay off my college loans? ;-) We went to the parking lot and the salesman told me "This is the clutch, here's how you change gears, this is the front brake....have fun!" And I learned how to drive on the way home. Ah, youth! The motorcycle has been all over the place. I went to Cornell University, in upstate NY, and my girlfriend at the time went to Michigan, so it made the trip many times. It's attended Sturgis (despite being a Japanese bike, but I drove it there unlike many of the Harleys!) prowled the streets of Chicago, etc. But it got put into storage when I moved to Europe and took a long time to catch up to me. It recently was made road-worthy and is still wearing US plates, although I'll have to fix that over the next year. It is very difficult and very expensive to insure a vehicle in Europe with US plates. But for those from the US or Canada attending Le Mans Classic - -IT CAN BE DONE! Anyway, my question. The tendency in race cars and sports cars is moving away from a manual transmission to an automatic. I know that isn't quite true but don't really care if there is still technically a clutch or not - if there isn't a clutch pedal inside, then it's an automatic! Why hasn't the same thing happened with motorcycles? Because the shift time on a motorcycle is already so short? Do racers even use the clutch on a race bike? The weight associated with the mechanism is a larger percentage of a light bike as opposed to a car? A Just wondering this morning, as it was a nice morning for a ride and as there's no radio my mind went wandering... _______________________________________________
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Charlie, you're just having way too much fun! You amaze me......enjoy!
On Jul 29, 2016, at 12:45 AM, Charles McCall <charlesmccall@gmail.com> wrote:
Motorcycle ramblings with a question at the end.... The weather has been absolutely fantastic here for the past few weeks, so I have been using my motorcycle for my daily commute to and from work. It's recently back on the road after more or less being in storage for 18 years. It is true that long term storage isn't good for vehicles - either cars or motorcycles. I filled the tank up with gas and it all ran right on the floor... hoses that had disintegrated with time. Got that repaired.A The gas on the floor was mixing with a massive oil leak caused by a gasket on the cam tensioner that dried out and cracked. Got that fixed.A I'm glad my motorcycle is air-cooled or I know what would be leaking now! We didn't get off to a good start this year! The motorcycle is a 1982 Suzuki GS650, nothing particularly special but with a lot of sentimental value. I bought it when I was 19 and a college sophomore. I'd never been on a motorcycle in my life - neither as a passenger nor a driver. I walked into the local Suzuki dealer and said "I like that one, I'll buy it!" and paid for it with my visa card, at 19.6% interest. And I wonder why it took me so long to pay off my college loans? ;-) We went to the parking lot and the salesman told me "This is the clutch, here's how you change gears, this is the front brake....have fun!" And I learned how to drive on the way home. Ah, youth! The motorcycle has been all over the place. I went to Cornell University, in upstate NY, and my girlfriend at the time went to Michigan, so it made the trip many times. It's attended Sturgis (despite being a Japanese bike, but I drove it there unlike many of the Harleys!) prowled the streets of Chicago, etc. But it got put into storage when I moved to Europe and took a long time to catch up to me. It recently was made road-worthy and is still wearing US plates, although I'll have to fix that over the next year. It is very difficult and very expensive to insure a vehicle in Europe with US plates. But for those from the US or Canada attending Le Mans Classic - -IT CAN BE DONE! Anyway, my question. The tendency in race cars and sports cars is moving away from a manual transmission to an automatic. I know that isn't quite true but don't really care if there is still technically a clutch or not - if there isn't a clutch pedal inside, then it's an automatic! Why hasn't the same thing happened with motorcycles? Because the shift time on a motorcycle is already so short? Do racers even use the clutch on a race bike? The weight associated with the mechanism is a larger percentage of a light bike as opposed to a car? A Just wondering this morning, as it was a nice morning for a ride and as there's no radio my mind went wandering... _______________________________________________
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Interesting question, when I'm in Germany in september I'll ask my brother.He works in development at BMW Motorcycle and also races vintage Wankel bikes. I think your right,the weight gain is probably too much. Peter check out our website at: www.whitehorseranch.com From: charlesmccall@gmail.com Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 09:45:11 +0200 To: detomaso@detomasolist.com Subject: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content Motorcycle ramblings with a question at the end.... The weather has been absolutely fantastic here for the past few weeks, so I have been using my motorcycle for my daily commute to and from work. It's recently back on the road after more or less being in storage for 18 years. It is true that long term storage isn't good for vehicles - either cars or motorcycles. I filled the tank up with gas and it all ran right on the floor... hoses that had disintegrated with time. Got that repaired. The gas on the floor was mixing with a massive oil leak caused by a gasket on the cam tensioner that dried out and cracked. Got that fixed. I'm glad my motorcycle is air-cooled or I know what would be leaking now! We didn't get off to a good start this year! The motorcycle is a 1982 Suzuki GS650, nothing particularly special but with a lot of sentimental value. I bought it when I was 19 and a college sophomore. I'd never been on a motorcycle in my life - neither as a passenger nor a driver. I walked into the local Suzuki dealer and said "I like that one, I'll buy it!" and paid for it with my visa card, at 19.6% interest. And I wonder why it took me so long to pay off my college loans? ;-) We went to the parking lot and the salesman told me "This is the clutch, here's how you change gears, this is the front brake....have fun!" And I learned how to drive on the way home. Ah, youth! The motorcycle has been all over the place. I went to Cornell University, in upstate NY, and my girlfriend at the time went to Michigan, so it made the trip many times. It's attended Sturgis (despite being a Japanese bike, but I drove it there unlike many of the Harleys!) prowled the streets of Chicago, etc. But it got put into storage when I moved to Europe and took a long time to catch up to me. It recently was made road-worthy and is still wearing US plates, although I'll have to fix that over the next year. It is very difficult and very expensive to insure a vehicle in Europe with US plates. But for those from the US or Canada attending Le Mans Classic - -IT CAN BE DONE! Anyway, my question. The tendency in race cars and sports cars is moving away from a manual transmission to an automatic. I know that isn't quite true but don't really care if there is still technically a clutch or not - if there isn't a clutch pedal inside, then it's an automatic! Why hasn't the same thing happened with motorcycles? Because the shift time on a motorcycle is already so short? Do racers even use the clutch on a race bike? The weight associated with the mechanism is a larger percentage of a light bike as opposed to a car? Just wondering this morning, as it was a nice morning for a ride and as there's no radio my mind went wandering... _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Interesting question, when I'm in Germany in september I'll ask my brother.He works in development at BMW Motorcycle and also races vintage Wankel bikes. I think your right,the weight gain is probably too much. Peter check out our website at: [1]www.whitehorseranch.com From: charlesmccall@gmail.com Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 09:45:11 +0200 To: detomaso@detomasolist.com Subject: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content Motorcycle ramblings with a question at the end.... The weather has been absolutely fantastic here for the past few weeks, so I have been using my motorcycle for my daily commute to and from work. It's recently back on the road after more or less being in storage for 18 years. It is true that long term storage isn't good for vehicles - either cars or motorcycles. I filled the tank up with gas and it all ran right on the floor... hoses that had disintegrated with time. Got that repaired. The gas on the floor was mixing with a massive oil leak caused by a gasket on the cam tensioner that dried out and cracked. Got that fixed. I'm glad my motorcycle is air-cooled or I know what would be leaking now! We didn't get off to a good start this year! The motorcycle is a 1982 Suzuki GS650, nothing particularly special but with a lot of sentimental value. I bought it when I was 19 and a college sophomore. I'd never been on a motorcycle in my life - neither as a passenger nor a driver. I walked into the local Suzuki dealer and said "I like that one, I'll buy it!" and paid for it with my visa card, at 19.6% interest. And I wonder why it took me so long to pay off my college loans? ;-) We went to the parking lot and the salesman told me "This is the clutch, here's how you change gears, this is the front brake....have fun!" And I learned how to drive on the way home. Ah, youth! The motorcycle has been all over the place. I went to Cornell University, in upstate NY, and my girlfriend at the time went to Michigan, so it made the trip many times. It's attended Sturgis (despite being a Japanese bike, but I drove it there unlike many of the Harleys!) prowled the streets of Chicago, etc. But it got put into storage when I moved to Europe and took a long time to catch up to me. It recently was made road-worthy and is still wearing US plates, although I'll have to fix that over the next year. It is very difficult and very expensive to insure a vehicle in Europe with US plates. But for those from the US or Canada attending Le Mans Classic - -IT CAN BE DONE! Anyway, my question. The tendency in race cars and sports cars is moving away from a manual transmission to an automatic. I know that isn't quite true but don't really care if there is still technically a clutch or not - if there isn't a clutch pedal inside, then it's an automatic! Why hasn't the same thing happened with motorcycles? Because the shift time on a motorcycle is already so short? Do racers even use the clutch on a race bike? The weight associated with the mechanism is a larger percentage of a light bike as opposed to a car? Just wondering this morning, as it was a nice morning for a ride and as there's no radio my mind went wandering... _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. http://www.whitehorseranch.com/
As for bike manual/auto transmission--- Not something I follow, but the first hits from Google show full automatics (plus abs, traction control, etc) is available AND kits to add to manual for "paddle shift" -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Peter Menyhart Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 8:30 AM To: Charles McCall; pantera forum Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content Interesting question,... I think your right, the weight gain is probably too much. Peter From: charlesmccall@gmail.com Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 09:45:11 +0200 To: detomaso@detomasolist.com Subject: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content ... Anyway, my question. The tendency in race cars and sports cars is moving away from a manual transmission to an automatic. I know that isn't quite true but don't really care if there is still technically a clutch or not - if there isn't a clutch pedal inside, then it's an automatic! Why hasn't the same thing happened with motorcycles? Because the shift time on a motorcycle is already so short? Do racers even use the clutch on a race bike? The weight associated with the mechanism is a larger percentage of a light bike as opposed to a car?
Charles, I would postulate it is because a motorcycle gearbox is already a "race box", i.e. non syncromesh, dog box with straight cut gears, which is essentially the simplest and lightest gearbox you can get. Shifting without the clutch is fairly universal on race bikes and similar to race cars permitted by the straight cut gear design. Motorcycle clutches are now dry (whereas yours is probably a wet clutch) and much lighter design and I would only use the very lightest clutch pressure on my street bike (Ducati superbike) just to take the pressure off the gears. Julian ________________________________ From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of Peter Menyhart <pmenyhart@msn.com> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 5:29 AM To: Charles McCall; pantera forum Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content Interesting question, when I'm in Germany in september I'll ask my brother.He works in development at BMW Motorcycle and also races vintage Wankel bikes. I think your right,the weight gain is probably too much. Peter check out our website at: www.whitehorseranch.com<http://www.whitehorseranch.com> From: charlesmccall@gmail.com Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 09:45:11 +0200 To: detomaso@detomasolist.com Subject: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content Motorcycle ramblings with a question at the end.... The weather has been absolutely fantastic here for the past few weeks, so I have been using my motorcycle for my daily commute to and from work. It's recently back on the road after more or less being in storage for 18 years. It is true that long term storage isn't good for vehicles - either cars or motorcycles. I filled the tank up with gas and it all ran right on the floor... hoses that had disintegrated with time. Got that repaired. The gas on the floor was mixing with a massive oil leak caused by a gasket on the cam tensioner that dried out and cracked. Got that fixed. I'm glad my motorcycle is air-cooled or I know what would be leaking now! We didn't get off to a good start this year! The motorcycle is a 1982 Suzuki GS650, nothing particularly special but with a lot of sentimental value. I bought it when I was 19 and a college sophomore. I'd never been on a motorcycle in my life - neither as a passenger nor a driver. I walked into the local Suzuki dealer and said "I like that one, I'll buy it!" and paid for it with my visa card, at 19.6% interest. And I wonder why it took me so long to pay off my college loans? ;-) We went to the parking lot and the salesman told me "This is the clutch, here's how you change gears, this is the front brake....have fun!" And I learned how to drive on the way home. Ah, youth! The motorcycle has been all over the place. I went to Cornell University, in upstate NY, and my girlfriend at the time went to Michigan, so it made the trip many times. It's attended Sturgis (despite being a Japanese bike, but I drove it there unlike many of the Harleys!) prowled the streets of Chicago, etc. But it got put into storage when I moved to Europe and took a long time to catch up to me. It recently was made road-worthy and is still wearing US plates, although I'll have to fix that over the next year. It is very difficult and very expensive to insure a vehicle in Europe with US plates. But for those from the US or Canada attending Le Mans Classic - -IT CAN BE DONE! Anyway, my question. The tendency in race cars and sports cars is moving away from a manual transmission to an automatic. I know that isn't quite true but don't really care if there is still technically a clutch or not - if there isn't a clutch pedal inside, then it's an automatic! Why hasn't the same thing happened with motorcycles? Because the shift time on a motorcycle is already so short? Do racers even use the clutch on a race bike? The weight associated with the mechanism is a larger percentage of a light bike as opposed to a car? Just wondering this morning, as it was a nice morning for a ride and as there's no radio my mind went wandering... _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Charles, I would postulate it is because a motorcycle gearbox is already a "race box", i.e. non syncromesh, dog box with straight cut gears, which is essentially the simplest and lightest gearbox you can get. Shifting without the clutch is fairly universal on race bikes and similar to race cars permitted by the straight cut gear design. Motorcycle clutches are now dry (whereas yours is probably a wet clutch) and much lighter design and I would only use the very lightest clutch pressure on my street bike (Ducati superbike) just to take the pressure off the gears. Julian __________________________________________________________________ From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of Peter Menyhart <pmenyhart@msn.com> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 5:29 AM To: Charles McCall; pantera forum Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content Interesting question, when I'm in Germany in september I'll ask my brother.He works in development at BMW Motorcycle and also races vintage Wankel bikes. I think your right,the weight gain is probably too much. Peter check out our website at: [1]www.whitehorseranch.com From: charlesmccall@gmail.com Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 09:45:11 +0200 To: detomaso@detomasolist.com Subject: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content Motorcycle ramblings with a question at the end.... The weather has been absolutely fantastic here for the past few weeks, so I have been using my motorcycle for my daily commute to and from work. It's recently back on the road after more or less being in storage for 18 years. It is true that long term storage isn't good for vehicles - either cars or motorcycles. I filled the tank up with gas and it all ran right on the floor... hoses that had disintegrated with time. Got that repaired. The gas on the floor was mixing with a massive oil leak caused by a gasket on the cam tensioner that dried out and cracked. Got that fixed. I'm glad my motorcycle is air-cooled or I know what would be leaking now! We didn't get off to a good start this year! The motorcycle is a 1982 Suzuki GS650, nothing particularly special but with a lot of sentimental value. I bought it when I was 19 and a college sophomore. I'd never been on a motorcycle in my life - neither as a passenger nor a driver. I walked into the local Suzuki dealer and said "I like that one, I'll buy it!" and paid for it with my visa card, at 19.6% interest. And I wonder why it took me so long to pay off my college loans? ;-) We went to the parking lot and the salesman told me "This is the clutch, here's how you change gears, this is the front brake....have fun!" And I learned how to drive on the way home. Ah, youth! The motorcycle has been all over the place. I went to Cornell University, in upstate NY, and my girlfriend at the time went to Michigan, so it made the trip many times. It's attended Sturgis (despite being a Japanese bike, but I drove it there unlike many of the Harleys!) prowled the streets of Chicago, etc. But it got put into storage when I moved to Europe and took a long time to catch up to me. It recently was made road-worthy and is still wearing US plates, although I'll have to fix that over the next year. It is very difficult and very expensive to insure a vehicle in Europe with US plates. But for those from the US or Canada attending Le Mans Classic - -IT CAN BE DONE! Anyway, my question. The tendency in race cars and sports cars is moving away from a manual transmission to an automatic. I know that isn't quite true but don't really care if there is still technically a clutch or not - if there isn't a clutch pedal inside, then it's an automatic! Why hasn't the same thing happened with motorcycles? Because the shift time on a motorcycle is already so short? Do racers even use the clutch on a race bike? The weight associated with the mechanism is a larger percentage of a light bike as opposed to a car? Just wondering this morning, as it was a nice morning for a ride and as there's no radio my mind went wandering... _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [2]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. http://www.whitehorseranch.com/ 2. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
Julian - educate me if you don't mind. You say that motorcycle gearboxes are non syncromesh. My folks have a 1952 MG-TD that has syncromesh in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th, but not first. When you come to a stop, if you haven't come to a COMPLETE stop it'll crunch when you put it in first. It won't crunch if you put it in second and I was told that this was due to the lack of syncromesh. If this is true, why doesn't my bike crunch when putting it in first while still rolling? From: Julian Kift [mailto:julian_kift@hotmail.com] Sent: viernes, 29 de julio de 2016 17:10 To: Peter Menyhart; Charles McCall; pantera forum; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content Charles, I would postulate it is because a motorcycle gearbox is already a "race box", i.e. non syncromesh, dog box with straight cut gears, which is essentially the simplest and lightest gearbox you can get. Shifting without the clutch is fairly universal on race bikes and similar to race cars permitted by the straight cut gear design. Motorcycle clutches are now dry (whereas yours is probably a wet clutch) and much lighter design and I would only use the very lightest clutch pressure on my street bike (Ducati superbike) just to take the pressure off the gears. Julian _____ From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of Peter Menyhart <pmenyhart@msn.com> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 5:29 AM To: Charles McCall; pantera forum Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content Interesting question, when I'm in Germany in september I'll ask my brother.He works in development at BMW Motorcycle and also races vintage Wankel bikes. I think your right,the weight gain is probably too much. Peter check out our website at: www.whitehorseranch.com From: charlesmccall@gmail.com Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 09:45:11 +0200 To: detomaso@detomasolist.com Subject: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content Motorcycle ramblings with a question at the end.... The weather has been absolutely fantastic here for the past few weeks, so I have been using my motorcycle for my daily commute to and from work. It's recently back on the road after more or less being in storage for 18 years. It is true that long term storage isn't good for vehicles - either cars or motorcycles. I filled the tank up with gas and it all ran right on the floor... hoses that had disintegrated with time. Got that repaired. The gas on the floor was mixing with a massive oil leak caused by a gasket on the cam tensioner that dried out and cracked. Got that fixed. I'm glad my motorcycle is air-cooled or I know what would be leaking now! We didn't get off to a good start this year! The motorcycle is a 1982 Suzuki GS650, nothing particularly special but with a lot of sentimental value. I bought it when I was 19 and a college sophomore. I'd never been on a motorcycle in my life - neither as a passenger nor a driver. I walked into the local Suzuki dealer and said "I like that one, I'll buy it!" and paid for it with my visa card, at 19.6% interest. And I wonder why it took me so long to pay off my college loans? ;-) We went to the parking lot and the salesman told me "This is the clutch, here's how you change gears, this is the front brake....have fun!" And I learned how to drive on the way home. Ah, youth! The motorcycle has been all over the place. I went to Cornell University, in upstate NY, and my girlfriend at the time went to Michigan, so it made the trip many times. It's attended Sturgis (despite being a Japanese bike, but I drove it there unlike many of the Harleys!) prowled the streets of Chicago, etc. But it got put into storage when I moved to Europe and took a long time to catch up to me. It recently was made road-worthy and is still wearing US plates, although I'll have to fix that over the next year. It is very difficult and very expensive to insure a vehicle in Europe with US plates. But for those from the US or Canada attending Le Mans Classic - -IT CAN BE DONE! Anyway, my question. The tendency in race cars and sports cars is moving away from a manual transmission to an automatic. I know that isn't quite true but don't really care if there is still technically a clutch or not - if there isn't a clutch pedal inside, then it's an automatic! Why hasn't the same thing happened with motorcycles? Because the shift time on a motorcycle is already so short? Do racers even use the clutch on a race bike? The weight associated with the mechanism is a larger percentage of a light bike as opposed to a car? Just wondering this morning, as it was a nice morning for a ride and as there's no radio my mind went wandering... _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Julian - educate me if you don't mind. You say that motorcycle gearboxes are non syncromesh. My folks have a 1952 MG-TD that has syncromesh in 2^nd, 3^rd, and 4^th, but not first. When you come to a stop, if you haven't come to a COMPLETE stop it'll crunch when you put it in first. It won't crunch if you put it in second and I was told that this was due to the lack of syncromesh. If this is true, why doesn't my bike crunch when putting it in first while still rolling? From: Julian Kift [mailto:julian_kift@hotmail.com] Sent: viernes, 29 de julio de 2016 17:10 To: Peter Menyhart; Charles McCall; pantera forum; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content Charles, I would postulate it is because a motorcycle gearbox is already a "race box", i.e. non syncromesh, dog box with straight cut gears, which is essentially the simplest and lightest gearbox you can get. Shifting without the clutch is fairly universal on race bikes and similar to race cars permitted by the straight cut gear design. Motorcycle clutches are now dry (whereas yours is probably a wet clutch) and much lighter design and I would only use the very lightest clutch pressure on my street bike (Ducati superbike) just to take the pressure off the gears. Julian _____________________________________________________________________ From: DeTomaso <[1]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of Peter Menyhart <[2]pmenyhart@msn.com> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 5:29 AM To: Charles McCall; pantera forum Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content Interesting question, when I'm in Germany in september I'll ask my brother.He works in development at BMW Motorcycle and also races vintage Wankel bikes. I think your right,the weight gain is probably too much. Peter check out our website at: [3]www.whitehorseranch.com From: [4]charlesmccall@gmail.com Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 09:45:11 +0200 To: [5]detomaso@detomasolist.com Subject: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content Motorcycle ramblings with a question at the end.... The weather has been absolutely fantastic here for the past few weeks, so I have been using my motorcycle for my daily commute to and from work. It's recently back on the road after more or less being in storage for 18 years. It is true that long term storage isn't good for vehicles - either cars or motorcycles. I filled the tank up with gas and it all ran right on the floor... hoses that had disintegrated with time. Got that repaired. The gas on the floor was mixing with a massive oil leak caused by a gasket on the cam tensioner that dried out and cracked. Got that fixed. I'm glad my motorcycle is air-cooled or I know what would be leaking now! We didn't get off to a good start this year! The motorcycle is a 1982 Suzuki GS650, nothing particularly special but with a lot of sentimental value. I bought it when I was 19 and a college sophomore. I'd never been on a motorcycle in my life - neither as a passenger nor a driver. I walked into the local Suzuki dealer and said "I like that one, I'll buy it!" and paid for it with my visa card, at 19.6% interest. And I wonder why it took me so long to pay off my college loans? ;-) We went to the parking lot and the salesman told me "This is the clutch, here's how you change gears, this is the front brake....have fun!" And I learned how to drive on the way home. Ah, youth! The motorcycle has been all over the place. I went to Cornell University, in upstate NY, and my girlfriend at the time went to Michigan, so it made the trip many times. It's attended Sturgis (despite being a Japanese bike, but I drove it there unlike many of the Harleys!) prowled the streets of Chicago, etc. But it got put into storage when I moved to Europe and took a long time to catch up to me. It recently was made road-worthy and is still wearing US plates, although I'll have to fix that over the next year. It is very difficult and very expensive to insure a vehicle in Europe with US plates. But for those from the US or Canada attending Le Mans Classic - -IT CAN BE DONE! Anyway, my question. The tendency in race cars and sports cars is moving away from a manual transmission to an automatic. I know that isn't quite true but don't really care if there is still technically a clutch or not - if there isn't a clutch pedal inside, then it's an automatic! Why hasn't the same thing happened with motorcycles? Because the shift time on a motorcycle is already so short? Do racers even use the clutch on a race bike? The weight associated with the mechanism is a larger percentage of a light bike as opposed to a car? Just wondering this morning, as it was a nice morning for a ride and as there's no radio my mind went wandering... _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [6]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [7]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 2. mailto:pmenyhart@msn.com 3. http://www.whitehorseranch.com/ 4. mailto:charlesmccall@gmail.com 5. mailto:detomaso@detomasolist.com 6. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 7. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
Charlie, Yes the older British cars often lack a syncro in 1st (and reverse is not usually a syncro either). Shifting a non syncro requires getting the gears that are to be meshed spinning at roughly the same speed, best achieved via double clutching or knowing what revs to shift at (18 wheelers are all non syncro boxes, most truckers can shift without use of a clutch). You could try this in your folks MG-TD, i recommend some distance from their house until you have it down [😉] The main difference in a motorcycle gearbox is it is a "constant mesh" i.e. all the gears are constantly meshed and spinning(no syncro required to spin up the gears). It is also sequential so shifting through the gears in order without ability bypass a gear (other than neutral to second as neutral is half click between first and second). Julian ________________________________ From: Charles McCall <charlesmccall@gmail.com> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 11:56 AM To: 'Julian Kift'; 'Peter Menyhart'; 'pantera forum'; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content Julian – educate me if you don’t mind. You say that motorcycle gearboxes are non syncromesh. My folks have a 1952 MG-TD that has syncromesh in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th, but not first. When you come to a stop, if you haven’t come to a COMPLETE stop it’ll crunch when you put it in first. It won’t crunch if you put it in second and I was told that this was due to the lack of syncromesh. If this is true, why doesn’t my bike crunch when putting it in first while still rolling? From: Julian Kift [mailto:julian_kift@hotmail.com] Sent: viernes, 29 de julio de 2016 17:10 To: Peter Menyhart; Charles McCall; pantera forum; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content Charles, I would postulate it is because a motorcycle gearbox is already a "race box", i.e. non syncromesh, dog box with straight cut gears, which is essentially the simplest and lightest gearbox you can get. Shifting without the clutch is fairly universal on race bikes and similar to race cars permitted by the straight cut gear design. Motorcycle clutches are now dry (whereas yours is probably a wet clutch) and much lighter design and I would only use the very lightest clutch pressure on my street bike (Ducati superbike) just to take the pressure off the gears. Julian ________________________________ From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com>> on behalf of Peter Menyhart <pmenyhart@msn.com<mailto:pmenyhart@msn.com>> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 5:29 AM To: Charles McCall; pantera forum Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content Interesting question, when I'm in Germany in september I'll ask my brother.He works in development at BMW Motorcycle and also races vintage Wankel bikes. I think your right,the weight gain is probably too much. Peter check out our website at: www.whitehorseranch.com<http://www.whitehorseranch.com> From: charlesmccall@gmail.com<mailto:charlesmccall@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 09:45:11 +0200 To: detomaso@detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@detomasolist.com> Subject: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content Motorcycle ramblings with a question at the end.... The weather has been absolutely fantastic here for the past few weeks, so I have been using my motorcycle for my daily commute to and from work. It's recently back on the road after more or less being in storage for 18 years. It is true that long term storage isn't good for vehicles - either cars or motorcycles. I filled the tank up with gas and it all ran right on the floor... hoses that had disintegrated with time. Got that repaired. The gas on the floor was mixing with a massive oil leak caused by a gasket on the cam tensioner that dried out and cracked. Got that fixed. I'm glad my motorcycle is air-cooled or I know what would be leaking now! We didn't get off to a good start this year! The motorcycle is a 1982 Suzuki GS650, nothing particularly special but with a lot of sentimental value. I bought it when I was 19 and a college sophomore. I'd never been on a motorcycle in my life - neither as a passenger nor a driver. I walked into the local Suzuki dealer and said "I like that one, I'll buy it!" and paid for it with my visa card, at 19.6% interest. And I wonder why it took me so long to pay off my college loans? ;-) We went to the parking lot and the salesman told me "This is the clutch, here's how you change gears, this is the front brake....have fun!" And I learned how to drive on the way home. Ah, youth! The motorcycle has been all over the place. I went to Cornell University, in upstate NY, and my girlfriend at the time went to Michigan, so it made the trip many times. It's attended Sturgis (despite being a Japanese bike, but I drove it there unlike many of the Harleys!) prowled the streets of Chicago, etc. But it got put into storage when I moved to Europe and took a long time to catch up to me. It recently was made road-worthy and is still wearing US plates, although I'll have to fix that over the next year. It is very difficult and very expensive to insure a vehicle in Europe with US plates. But for those from the US or Canada attending Le Mans Classic - -IT CAN BE DONE! Anyway, my question. The tendency in race cars and sports cars is moving away from a manual transmission to an automatic. I know that isn't quite true but don't really care if there is still technically a clutch or not - if there isn't a clutch pedal inside, then it's an automatic! Why hasn't the same thing happened with motorcycles? Because the shift time on a motorcycle is already so short? Do racers even use the clutch on a race bike? The weight associated with the mechanism is a larger percentage of a light bike as opposed to a car? Just wondering this morning, as it was a nice morning for a ride and as there's no radio my mind went wandering... _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Charlie, Yes the older British cars often lack a syncro in 1st (and reverse is not usually a syncro either). Shifting a non syncro requires getting the gears that are to be meshed spinning at roughly the same speed, best achieved via double clutching or knowing what revs to shift at (18 wheelers are all non syncro boxes, most truckers can shift without use of a clutch). You could try this in your folks MG-TD, i recommend some distance from their house until you have it down U1F609 The main difference in a motorcycle gearbox is it is a "constant mesh" i.e. all the gears are constantly meshed and spinning(no syncro required to spin up the gears). It is also sequential so shifting through the gears in order without ability bypass a gear (other than neutral to second as neutral is half click between first and second). Julian __________________________________________________________________ From: Charles McCall <charlesmccall@gmail.com> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 11:56 AM To: 'Julian Kift'; 'Peter Menyhart'; 'pantera forum'; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content Julian - educate me if you don't mind. You say that motorcycle gearboxes are non syncromesh. My folks have a 1952 MG-TD that has syncromesh in 2^nd, 3^rd, and 4^th, but not first. When you come to a stop, if you haven't come to a COMPLETE stop it'll crunch when you put it in first. It won't crunch if you put it in second and I was told that this was due to the lack of syncromesh. If this is true, why doesn't my bike crunch when putting it in first while still rolling? From: Julian Kift [mailto:julian_kift@hotmail.com] Sent: viernes, 29 de julio de 2016 17:10 To: Peter Menyhart; Charles McCall; pantera forum; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content Charles, I would postulate it is because a motorcycle gearbox is already a "race box", i.e. non syncromesh, dog box with straight cut gears, which is essentially the simplest and lightest gearbox you can get. Shifting without the clutch is fairly universal on race bikes and similar to race cars permitted by the straight cut gear design. Motorcycle clutches are now dry (whereas yours is probably a wet clutch) and much lighter design and I would only use the very lightest clutch pressure on my street bike (Ducati superbike) just to take the pressure off the gears. Julian _____________________________________________________________________ From: DeTomaso <[1]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of Peter Menyhart <[2]pmenyhart@msn.com> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 5:29 AM To: Charles McCall; pantera forum Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content Interesting question, when I'm in Germany in september I'll ask my brother.He works in development at BMW Motorcycle and also races vintage Wankel bikes. I think your right,the weight gain is probably too much. Peter check out our website at: [3]www.whitehorseranch.com From: [4]charlesmccall@gmail.com Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 09:45:11 +0200 To: [5]detomaso@detomasolist.com Subject: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content Motorcycle ramblings with a question at the end.... The weather has been absolutely fantastic here for the past few weeks, so I have been using my motorcycle for my daily commute to and from work. It's recently back on the road after more or less being in storage for 18 years. It is true that long term storage isn't good for vehicles - either cars or motorcycles. I filled the tank up with gas and it all ran right on the floor... hoses that had disintegrated with time. Got that repaired. The gas on the floor was mixing with a massive oil leak caused by a gasket on the cam tensioner that dried out and cracked. Got that fixed. I'm glad my motorcycle is air-cooled or I know what would be leaking now! We didn't get off to a good start this year! The motorcycle is a 1982 Suzuki GS650, nothing particularly special but with a lot of sentimental value. I bought it when I was 19 and a college sophomore. I'd never been on a motorcycle in my life - neither as a passenger nor a driver. I walked into the local Suzuki dealer and said "I like that one, I'll buy it!" and paid for it with my visa card, at 19.6% interest. And I wonder why it took me so long to pay off my college loans? ;-) We went to the parking lot and the salesman told me "This is the clutch, here's how you change gears, this is the front brake....have fun!" And I learned how to drive on the way home. Ah, youth! The motorcycle has been all over the place. I went to Cornell University, in upstate NY, and my girlfriend at the time went to Michigan, so it made the trip many times. It's attended Sturgis (despite being a Japanese bike, but I drove it there unlike many of the Harleys!) prowled the streets of Chicago, etc. But it got put into storage when I moved to Europe and took a long time to catch up to me. It recently was made road-worthy and is still wearing US plates, although I'll have to fix that over the next year. It is very difficult and very expensive to insure a vehicle in Europe with US plates. But for those from the US or Canada attending Le Mans Classic - -IT CAN BE DONE! Anyway, my question. The tendency in race cars and sports cars is moving away from a manual transmission to an automatic. I know that isn't quite true but don't really care if there is still technically a clutch or not - if there isn't a clutch pedal inside, then it's an automatic! Why hasn't the same thing happened with motorcycles? Because the shift time on a motorcycle is already so short? Do racers even use the clutch on a race bike? The weight associated with the mechanism is a larger percentage of a light bike as opposed to a car? Just wondering this morning, as it was a nice morning for a ride and as there's no radio my mind went wandering... _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [6]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [7]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 2. mailto:pmenyhart@msn.com 3. http://www.whitehorseranch.com/ 4. mailto:charlesmccall@gmail.com 5. mailto:detomaso@detomasolist.com 6. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 7. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
Got it. I understand what you mean about shifting without a clutch by matching revs- I used to do it out of boredom in rental cars (good place to practice!) when I used them regularly. Came in well the day that the clutch slave cylinder died on the Pantera during a weekend event. Starting from a stop was, erm, bumpy, but I could shift reasonably well without a clutch from that point. Not something I’d want to do with the ZF regularly. See how everything has Pantera content when you get down to it? From: Julian Kift [mailto:julian_kift@hotmail.com] Sent: viernes, 29 de julio de 2016 21:40 To: Charles McCall; 'Peter Menyhart'; 'pantera forum'; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content Charlie, Yes the older British cars often lack a syncro in 1st (and reverse is not usually a syncro either). Shifting a non syncro requires getting the gears that are to be meshed spinning at roughly the same speed, best achieved via double clutching or knowing what revs to shift at (18 wheelers are all non syncro boxes, most truckers can shift without use of a clutch). You could try this in your folks MG-TD, i recommend some distance from their house until you have it down ?? The main difference in a motorcycle gearbox is it is a "constant mesh" i.e. all the gears are constantly meshed and spinning(no syncro required to spin up the gears). It is also sequential so shifting through the gears in order without ability bypass a gear (other than neutral to second as neutral is half click between first and second). Julian _____ From: Charles McCall <charlesmccall@gmail.com> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 11:56 AM To: 'Julian Kift'; 'Peter Menyhart'; 'pantera forum'; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content Julian – educate me if you don’t mind. You say that motorcycle gearboxes are non syncromesh. My folks have a 1952 MG-TD that has syncromesh in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th, but not first. When you come to a stop, if you haven’t come to a COMPLETE stop it’ll crunch when you put it in first. It won’t crunch if you put it in second and I was told that this was due to the lack of syncromesh. If this is true, why doesn’t my bike crunch when putting it in first while still rolling? From: Julian Kift [mailto:julian_kift@hotmail.com] Sent: viernes, 29 de julio de 2016 17:10 To: Peter Menyhart; Charles McCall; pantera forum; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content Charles, I would postulate it is because a motorcycle gearbox is already a "race box", i.e. non syncromesh, dog box with straight cut gears, which is essentially the simplest and lightest gearbox you can get. Shifting without the clutch is fairly universal on race bikes and similar to race cars permitted by the straight cut gear design. Motorcycle clutches are now dry (whereas yours is probably a wet clutch) and much lighter design and I would only use the very lightest clutch pressure on my street bike (Ducati superbike) just to take the pressure off the gears. Julian _____ From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of Peter Menyhart <pmenyhart@msn.com> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 5:29 AM To: Charles McCall; pantera forum Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content Interesting question, when I'm in Germany in september I'll ask my brother.He works in development at BMW Motorcycle and also races vintage Wankel bikes. I think your right,the weight gain is probably too much. Peter check out our website at: www.whitehorseranch.com From: charlesmccall@gmail.com Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 09:45:11 +0200 To: detomaso@detomasolist.com Subject: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content Motorcycle ramblings with a question at the end.... The weather has been absolutely fantastic here for the past few weeks, so I have been using my motorcycle for my daily commute to and from work. It's recently back on the road after more or less being in storage for 18 years. It is true that long term storage isn't good for vehicles - either cars or motorcycles. I filled the tank up with gas and it all ran right on the floor... hoses that had disintegrated with time. Got that repaired. The gas on the floor was mixing with a massive oil leak caused by a gasket on the cam tensioner that dried out and cracked. Got that fixed. I'm glad my motorcycle is air-cooled or I know what would be leaking now! We didn't get off to a good start this year! The motorcycle is a 1982 Suzuki GS650, nothing particularly special but with a lot of sentimental value. I bought it when I was 19 and a college sophomore. I'd never been on a motorcycle in my life - neither as a passenger nor a driver. I walked into the local Suzuki dealer and said "I like that one, I'll buy it!" and paid for it with my visa card, at 19.6% interest. And I wonder why it took me so long to pay off my college loans? ;-) We went to the parking lot and the salesman told me "This is the clutch, here's how you change gears, this is the front brake....have fun!" And I learned how to drive on the way home. Ah, youth! The motorcycle has been all over the place. I went to Cornell University, in upstate NY, and my girlfriend at the time went to Michigan, so it made the trip many times. It's attended Sturgis (despite being a Japanese bike, but I drove it there unlike many of the Harleys!) prowled the streets of Chicago, etc. But it got put into storage when I moved to Europe and took a long time to catch up to me. It recently was made road-worthy and is still wearing US plates, although I'll have to fix that over the next year. It is very difficult and very expensive to insure a vehicle in Europe with US plates. But for those from the US or Canada attending Le Mans Classic - -IT CAN BE DONE! Anyway, my question. The tendency in race cars and sports cars is moving away from a manual transmission to an automatic. I know that isn't quite true but don't really care if there is still technically a clutch or not - if there isn't a clutch pedal inside, then it's an automatic! Why hasn't the same thing happened with motorcycles? Because the shift time on a motorcycle is already so short? Do racers even use the clutch on a race bike? The weight associated with the mechanism is a larger percentage of a light bike as opposed to a car? Just wondering this morning, as it was a nice morning for a ride and as there's no radio my mind went wandering... _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Got it. I understand what you mean about shifting without a clutch by matching revs- I used to do it out of boredom in rental cars (good place to practice!) when I used them regularly. Came in well the day that the clutch slave cylinder died on the Pantera during a weekend event. Starting from a stop was, erm, bumpy, but I could shift reasonably well without a clutch from that point. Not something I'd want to do with the ZF regularly. See how everything has Pantera content when you get down to it? From: Julian Kift [mailto:julian_kift@hotmail.com] Sent: viernes, 29 de julio de 2016 21:40 To: Charles McCall; 'Peter Menyhart'; 'pantera forum'; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content Charlie, Yes the older British cars often lack a syncro in 1st (and reverse is not usually a syncro either). Shifting a non syncro requires getting the gears that are to be meshed spinning at roughly the same speed, best achieved via double clutching or knowing what revs to shift at (18 wheelers are all non syncro boxes, most truckers can shift without use of a clutch). You could try this in your folks MG-TD, i recommend some distance from their house until you have it down 😉 The main difference in a motorcycle gearbox is it is a "constant mesh" i.e. all the gears are constantly meshed and spinning(no syncro required to spin up the gears). It is also sequential so shifting through the gears in order without ability bypass a gear (other than neutral to second as neutral is half click between first and second). Julian _____________________________________________________________________ From: Charles McCall <[1]charlesmccall@gmail.com> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 11:56 AM To: 'Julian Kift'; 'Peter Menyhart'; 'pantera forum'; [2]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content Julian - educate me if you don't mind. You say that motorcycle gearboxes are non syncromesh. My folks have a 1952 MG-TD that has syncromesh in 2^nd, 3^rd, and 4^th, but not first. When you come to a stop, if you haven't come to a COMPLETE stop it'll crunch when you put it in first. It won't crunch if you put it in second and I was told that this was due to the lack of syncromesh. If this is true, why doesn't my bike crunch when putting it in first while still rolling? From: Julian Kift [[3]mailto:julian_kift@hotmail.com] Sent: viernes, 29 de julio de 2016 17:10 To: Peter Menyhart; Charles McCall; pantera forum; [4]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content Charles, I would postulate it is because a motorcycle gearbox is already a "race box", i.e. non syncromesh, dog box with straight cut gears, which is essentially the simplest and lightest gearbox you can get. Shifting without the clutch is fairly universal on race bikes and similar to race cars permitted by the straight cut gear design. Motorcycle clutches are now dry (whereas yours is probably a wet clutch) and much lighter design and I would only use the very lightest clutch pressure on my street bike (Ducati superbike) just to take the pressure off the gears. Julian _____________________________________________________________________ From: DeTomaso <[5]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of Peter Menyhart <[6]pmenyhart@msn.com> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 5:29 AM To: Charles McCall; pantera forum Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content Interesting question, when I'm in Germany in september I'll ask my brother.He works in development at BMW Motorcycle and also races vintage Wankel bikes. I think your right,the weight gain is probably too much. Peter check out our website at: [7]www.whitehorseranch.com From: [8]charlesmccall@gmail.com Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 09:45:11 +0200 To: [9]detomaso@detomasolist.com Subject: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content Motorcycle ramblings with a question at the end.... The weather has been absolutely fantastic here for the past few weeks, so I have been using my motorcycle for my daily commute to and from work. It's recently back on the road after more or less being in storage for 18 years. It is true that long term storage isn't good for vehicles - either cars or motorcycles. I filled the tank up with gas and it all ran right on the floor... hoses that had disintegrated with time. Got that repaired. The gas on the floor was mixing with a massive oil leak caused by a gasket on the cam tensioner that dried out and cracked. Got that fixed. I'm glad my motorcycle is air-cooled or I know what would be leaking now! We didn't get off to a good start this year! The motorcycle is a 1982 Suzuki GS650, nothing particularly special but with a lot of sentimental value. I bought it when I was 19 and a college sophomore. I'd never been on a motorcycle in my life - neither as a passenger nor a driver. I walked into the local Suzuki dealer and said "I like that one, I'll buy it!" and paid for it with my visa card, at 19.6% interest. And I wonder why it took me so long to pay off my college loans? ;-) We went to the parking lot and the salesman told me "This is the clutch, here's how you change gears, this is the front brake....have fun!" And I learned how to drive on the way home. Ah, youth! The motorcycle has been all over the place. I went to Cornell University, in upstate NY, and my girlfriend at the time went to Michigan, so it made the trip many times. It's attended Sturgis (despite being a Japanese bike, but I drove it there unlike many of the Harleys!) prowled the streets of Chicago, etc. But it got put into storage when I moved to Europe and took a long time to catch up to me. It recently was made road-worthy and is still wearing US plates, although I'll have to fix that over the next year. It is very difficult and very expensive to insure a vehicle in Europe with US plates. But for those from the US or Canada attending Le Mans Classic - -IT CAN BE DONE! Anyway, my question. The tendency in race cars and sports cars is moving away from a manual transmission to an automatic. I know that isn't quite true but don't really care if there is still technically a clutch or not - if there isn't a clutch pedal inside, then it's an automatic! Why hasn't the same thing happened with motorcycles? Because the shift time on a motorcycle is already so short? Do racers even use the clutch on a race bike? The weight associated with the mechanism is a larger percentage of a light bike as opposed to a car? Just wondering this morning, as it was a nice morning for a ride and as there's no radio my mind went wandering... _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [10]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [11]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:charlesmccall@gmail.com 2. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 3. mailto:julian_kift@hotmail.com 4. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 5. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 6. mailto:pmenyhart@msn.com 7. http://www.whitehorseranch.com/ 8. mailto:charlesmccall@gmail.com 9. mailto:detomaso@detomasolist.com 10. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 11. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
For a stop, did switch the engine off, put it in first and when the light change, crank her, give it some throttle and hold on -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Charles McCall Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 15:46 PM To: 'Julian Kift'; 'Peter Menyhart'; 'pantera forum'; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content ...Starting from a stop was, erm, bumpy, but I could shift reasonably well without a clutch from that point. Not something I’d want to do with the ZF regularly.
That's it!! -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Joseph F. Byrd, Jr. Sent: viernes, 29 de julio de 2016 22:01 To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content For a stop, did switch the engine off, put it in first and when the light change, crank her, give it some throttle and hold on -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Charles McCall Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 15:46 PM To: 'Julian Kift'; 'Peter Menyhart'; 'pantera forum'; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content ...Starting from a stop was, erm, bumpy, but I could shift reasonably well without a clutch from that point. Not something I’d want to do with the ZF regularly. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
The 60:s - 70:s Volvo and Scania trucks I drove during my military service (1974/1975) were all synchro mesh. The Volvos had a 4 speed range transmission (1-4/5-8) while the Scanias had a 5 speed split (5 lo/hi) The 50:s terrain trucks were non synchro, and they had no power steering either. I'm amazed if current US trucks are non synchro. My manual shift Audi quattros had some type of synchro on reverse. I believe it was some mechanism that stopped the gears spinning when you put it in reverse, not a full synchro. The gearbox in the open wheel race cars we were driving on a course used a similar engagement as an MC. It had no synchro and it would just say "clonk" when you shifted. You had to be distinct, otherwise it would grind, but it was very easy to shift. It also had straight cut gears, and it was whining quite loudly. The MC gearboxes I've seen had all slant cut gears and was quiet, but would "clonk" a bit when shifting. Thomas
29 juli 2016 kl. 21:40 skrev Julian Kift <julian_kift@hotmail.com>:
Charlie,
Yes the older British cars often lack a syncro in 1st (and reverse is not usually a syncro either). Shifting a non syncro requires getting the gears that are to be meshed spinning at roughly the same speed, best achieved via double clutching or knowing what revs to shift at (18 wheelers are all non syncro boxes, most truckers can shift without use of a clutch). You could try this in your folks MG-TD, i recommend some distance from their house until you have it down U1F609
The main difference in a motorcycle gearbox is it is a "constant mesh" i.e. all the gears are constantly meshed and spinning(no syncro required to spin up the gears). It is also sequential so shifting through the gears in order without ability bypass a gear (other than neutral to second as neutral is half click between first and second).
Julian __________________________________________________________________
From: Charles McCall <charlesmccall@gmail.com> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 11:56 AM To: 'Julian Kift'; 'Peter Menyhart'; 'pantera forum'; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content
Julian - educate me if you don't mind.
You say that motorcycle gearboxes are non syncromesh.
My folks have a 1952 MG-TD that has syncromesh in 2^nd, 3^rd, and 4^th, but not first. When you come to a stop, if you haven't come to a COMPLETE stop it'll crunch when you put it in first. It won't crunch if you put it in second and I was told that this was due to the lack of syncromesh.
If this is true, why doesn't my bike crunch when putting it in first while still rolling?
From: Julian Kift [mailto:julian_kift@hotmail.com] Sent: viernes, 29 de julio de 2016 17:10 To: Peter Menyhart; Charles McCall; pantera forum; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content
Charles,
I would postulate it is because a motorcycle gearbox is already a "race box", i.e. non syncromesh, dog box with straight cut gears, which is essentially the simplest and lightest gearbox you can get. Shifting without the clutch is fairly universal on race bikes and similar to race cars permitted by the straight cut gear design. Motorcycle clutches are now dry (whereas yours is probably a wet clutch) and much lighter design and I would only use the very lightest clutch pressure on my street bike (Ducati superbike) just to take the pressure off the gears.
Julian _____________________________________________________________________
From: DeTomaso <[1]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of Peter Menyhart <[2]pmenyhart@msn.com> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 5:29 AM To: Charles McCall; pantera forum Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content
Interesting question, when I'm in Germany in september I'll ask my brother.He works in development at BMW Motorcycle and also races vintage Wankel bikes. I think your right,the weight gain is probably too much. Peter check out our website at: [3]www.whitehorseranch.com From: [4]charlesmccall@gmail.com Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 09:45:11 +0200 To: [5]detomaso@detomasolist.com Subject: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content Motorcycle ramblings with a question at the end....
The weather has been absolutely fantastic here for the past few weeks, so I have been using my motorcycle for my daily commute to and from work. It's recently back on the road after more or less being in storage for 18 years. It is true that long term storage isn't good for vehicles - either cars or motorcycles. I filled the tank up with gas and it all ran right on the floor... hoses that had disintegrated with time. Got that repaired.
The gas on the floor was mixing with a massive oil leak caused by a gasket on the cam tensioner that dried out and cracked. Got that fixed.
I'm glad my motorcycle is air-cooled or I know what would be leaking now! We didn't get off to a good start this year!
The motorcycle is a 1982 Suzuki GS650, nothing particularly special but with a lot of sentimental value. I bought it when I was 19 and a college sophomore. I'd never been on a motorcycle in my life - neither as a passenger nor a driver. I walked into the local Suzuki dealer and said "I like that one, I'll buy it!" and paid for it with my visa card, at 19.6% interest. And I wonder why it took me so long to pay off my college loans? ;-)
We went to the parking lot and the salesman told me "This is the clutch, here's how you change gears, this is the front brake....have fun!" And I learned how to drive on the way home. Ah, youth!
The motorcycle has been all over the place. I went to Cornell University, in upstate NY, and my girlfriend at the time went to Michigan, so it made the trip many times. It's attended Sturgis (despite being a Japanese bike, but I drove it there unlike many of the Harleys!) prowled the streets of Chicago, etc. But it got put into storage when I moved to Europe and took a long time to catch up to me. It recently was made road-worthy and is still wearing US plates, although I'll have to fix that over the next year. It is very difficult and very expensive to insure a vehicle in Europe with US plates. But for those from the US or Canada attending Le Mans Classic - -IT CAN BE DONE!
Anyway, my question. The tendency in race cars and sports cars is moving away from a manual transmission to an automatic. I know that isn't quite true but don't really care if there is still technically a clutch or not - if there isn't a clutch pedal inside, then it's an automatic! Why hasn't the same thing happened with motorcycles? Because the shift time on a motorcycle is already so short? Do racers even use the clutch on a race bike? The weight associated with the mechanism is a larger percentage of a light bike as opposed to a car?
Just wondering this morning, as it was a nice morning for a ride and as there's no radio my mind went wandering... _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [6]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [7]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
References
1. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 2. mailto:pmenyhart@msn.com 3. http://www.whitehorseranch.com/ 4. mailto:charlesmccall@gmail.com 5. mailto:detomaso@detomasolist.com 6. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 7. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
I had a Lamborghini 400 years back and it had a fully synchro on reverse as does my present day Espada. You can go into reverse with no drama or strong hand pressure while going forward and put those cars into reverse, let up the clutch and slow the car up then to a full back up. I believe all Lamborghini's had this feature. So strange and utterly cool. No find them to grind them. Very elegant shifting. Jeff Cobb On Jul 29, 2016, at 4:52 PM, Thomas Törnblom <tipo874@gmail.com> wrote:
The 60:s - 70:s Volvo and Scania trucks I drove during my military service (1974/1975) were all synchro mesh. The Volvos had a 4 speed range transmission (1-4/5-8) while the Scanias had a 5 speed split (5 lo/hi)
The 50:s terrain trucks were non synchro, and they had no power steering either.
I'm amazed if current US trucks are non synchro.
My manual shift Audi quattros had some type of synchro on reverse. I believe it was some mechanism that stopped the gears spinning when you put it in reverse, not a full synchro.
The gearbox in the open wheel race cars we were driving on a course used a similar engagement as an MC. It had no synchro and it would just say "clonk" when you shifted. You had to be distinct, otherwise it would grind, but it was very easy to shift. It also had straight cut gears, and it was whining quite loudly.
The MC gearboxes I've seen had all slant cut gears and was quiet, but would "clonk" a bit when shifting.
Thomas
29 juli 2016 kl. 21:40 skrev Julian Kift <julian_kift@hotmail.com>:
Charlie,
Yes the older British cars often lack a syncro in 1st (and reverse is not usually a syncro either). Shifting a non syncro requires getting the gears that are to be meshed spinning at roughly the same speed, best achieved via double clutching or knowing what revs to shift at (18 wheelers are all non syncro boxes, most truckers can shift without use of a clutch). You could try this in your folks MG-TD, i recommend some distance from their house until you have it down U1F609
The main difference in a motorcycle gearbox is it is a "constant mesh" i.e. all the gears are constantly meshed and spinning(no syncro required to spin up the gears). It is also sequential so shifting through the gears in order without ability bypass a gear (other than neutral to second as neutral is half click between first and second).
Julian __________________________________________________________________
From: Charles McCall <charlesmccall@gmail.com> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 11:56 AM To: 'Julian Kift'; 'Peter Menyhart'; 'pantera forum'; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content
Julian - educate me if you don't mind.
You say that motorcycle gearboxes are non syncromesh.
My folks have a 1952 MG-TD that has syncromesh in 2^nd, 3^rd, and 4^th, but not first. When you come to a stop, if you haven't come to a COMPLETE stop it'll crunch when you put it in first. It won't crunch if you put it in second and I was told that this was due to the lack of syncromesh.
If this is true, why doesn't my bike crunch when putting it in first while still rolling?
From: Julian Kift [mailto:julian_kift@hotmail.com] Sent: viernes, 29 de julio de 2016 17:10 To: Peter Menyhart; Charles McCall; pantera forum; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content
Charles,
I would postulate it is because a motorcycle gearbox is already a "race box", i.e. non syncromesh, dog box with straight cut gears, which is essentially the simplest and lightest gearbox you can get. Shifting without the clutch is fairly universal on race bikes and similar to race cars permitted by the straight cut gear design. Motorcycle clutches are now dry (whereas yours is probably a wet clutch) and much lighter design and I would only use the very lightest clutch pressure on my street bike (Ducati superbike) just to take the pressure off the gears.
Julian _____________________________________________________________________
From: DeTomaso <[1]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of Peter Menyhart <[2]pmenyhart@msn.com> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 5:29 AM To: Charles McCall; pantera forum Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content
Interesting question, when I'm in Germany in september I'll ask my brother.He works in development at BMW Motorcycle and also races vintage Wankel bikes. I think your right,the weight gain is probably too much. Peter check out our website at: [3]www.whitehorseranch.com From: [4]charlesmccall@gmail.com Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 09:45:11 +0200 To: [5]detomaso@detomasolist.com Subject: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content Motorcycle ramblings with a question at the end....
The weather has been absolutely fantastic here for the past few weeks, so I have been using my motorcycle for my daily commute to and from work. It's recently back on the road after more or less being in storage for 18 years. It is true that long term storage isn't good for vehicles - either cars or motorcycles. I filled the tank up with gas and it all ran right on the floor... hoses that had disintegrated with time. Got that repaired.
The gas on the floor was mixing with a massive oil leak caused by a gasket on the cam tensioner that dried out and cracked. Got that fixed.
I'm glad my motorcycle is air-cooled or I know what would be leaking now! We didn't get off to a good start this year!
The motorcycle is a 1982 Suzuki GS650, nothing particularly special but with a lot of sentimental value. I bought it when I was 19 and a college sophomore. I'd never been on a motorcycle in my life - neither as a passenger nor a driver. I walked into the local Suzuki dealer and said "I like that one, I'll buy it!" and paid for it with my visa card, at 19.6% interest. And I wonder why it took me so long to pay off my college loans? ;-)
We went to the parking lot and the salesman told me "This is the clutch, here's how you change gears, this is the front brake....have fun!" And I learned how to drive on the way home. Ah, youth!
The motorcycle has been all over the place. I went to Cornell University, in upstate NY, and my girlfriend at the time went to Michigan, so it made the trip many times. It's attended Sturgis (despite being a Japanese bike, but I drove it there unlike many of the Harleys!) prowled the streets of Chicago, etc. But it got put into storage when I moved to Europe and took a long time to catch up to me. It recently was made road-worthy and is still wearing US plates, although I'll have to fix that over the next year. It is very difficult and very expensive to insure a vehicle in Europe with US plates. But for those from the US or Canada attending Le Mans Classic - -IT CAN BE DONE!
Anyway, my question. The tendency in race cars and sports cars is moving away from a manual transmission to an automatic. I know that isn't quite true but don't really care if there is still technically a clutch or not - if there isn't a clutch pedal inside, then it's an automatic! Why hasn't the same thing happened with motorcycles? Because the shift time on a motorcycle is already so short? Do racers even use the clutch on a race bike? The weight associated with the mechanism is a larger percentage of a light bike as opposed to a car?
Just wondering this morning, as it was a nice morning for a ride and as there's no radio my mind went wandering... _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [6]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [7]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
References
1. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 2. mailto:pmenyhart@msn.com 3. http://www.whitehorseranch.com/ 4. mailto:charlesmccall@gmail.com 5. mailto:detomaso@detomasolist.com 6. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 7. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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Honda offers one: Honda Worldwide | Motorcycle Picture Book | Dual Clutch Transmission Scott Black | | | Honda Worldwide | Motorcycle Picture Book | Dual Clutch Transmission Honda Motor Co.,Ltd. Honda Worldwide - Visit the official Honda global web site and find information on all Hond... | | | TimePiece Public Relations & Marketing Marketing Acceleration www.tprm-usa.com On Friday, July 29, 2016 9:09 PM, Jeff Cobb <jeffcobb1@me.com> wrote: I had a Lamborghini 400 years back and it had a fully synchro on reverse as does my present day Espada. You can go into reverse with no drama or strong hand pressure while going forward and put those cars into reverse, let up the clutch and slow the car up then to a full back up. I believe all Lamborghini's had this feature. So strange and utterly cool. No find them to grind them. Very elegant shifting. Jeff Cobb On Jul 29, 2016, at 4:52 PM, Thomas Törnblom <tipo874@gmail.com> wrote:
The 60:s - 70:s Volvo and Scania trucks I drove during my military service (1974/1975) were all synchro mesh. The Volvos had a 4 speed range transmission (1-4/5-8) while the Scanias had a 5 speed split (5 lo/hi)
The 50:s terrain trucks were non synchro, and they had no power steering either.
I'm amazed if current US trucks are non synchro.
My manual shift Audi quattros had some type of synchro on reverse. I believe it was some mechanism that stopped the gears spinning when you put it in reverse, not a full synchro.
The gearbox in the open wheel race cars we were driving on a course used a similar engagement as an MC. It had no synchro and it would just say "clonk" when you shifted. You had to be distinct, otherwise it would grind, but it was very easy to shift. It also had straight cut gears, and it was whining quite loudly.
The MC gearboxes I've seen had all slant cut gears and was quiet, but would "clonk" a bit when shifting.
Thomas
29 juli 2016 kl. 21:40 skrev Julian Kift <julian_kift@hotmail.com>:
Charlie,
Yes the older British cars often lack a syncro in 1st (and reverse is not usually a syncro either). Shifting a non syncro requires getting the gears that are to be meshed spinning at roughly the same speed, best achieved via double clutching or knowing what revs to shift at (18 wheelers are all non syncro boxes, most truckers can shift without use of a clutch). You could try this in your folks MG-TD, i recommend some distance from their house until you have it down U1F609
The main difference in a motorcycle gearbox is it is a "constant mesh" i.e. all the gears are constantly meshed and spinning(no syncro required to spin up the gears). It is also sequential so shifting through the gears in order without ability bypass a gear (other than neutral to second as neutral is half click between first and second).
Julian __________________________________________________________________
From: Charles McCall <charlesmccall@gmail.com> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 11:56 AM To: 'Julian Kift'; 'Peter Menyhart'; 'pantera forum'; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content
Julian - educate me if you don't mind.
You say that motorcycle gearboxes are non syncromesh.
My folks have a 1952 MG-TD that has syncromesh in 2^nd, 3^rd, and 4^th, but not first. When you come to a stop, if you haven't come to a COMPLETE stop it'll crunch when you put it in first. It won't crunch if you put it in second and I was told that this was due to the lack of syncromesh.
If this is true, why doesn't my bike crunch when putting it in first while still rolling?
From: Julian Kift [mailto:julian_kift@hotmail.com] Sent: viernes, 29 de julio de 2016 17:10 To: Peter Menyhart; Charles McCall; pantera forum; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content
Charles,
I would postulate it is because a motorcycle gearbox is already a "race box", i.e. non syncromesh, dog box with straight cut gears, which is essentially the simplest and lightest gearbox you can get. Shifting without the clutch is fairly universal on race bikes and similar to race cars permitted by the straight cut gear design. Motorcycle clutches are now dry (whereas yours is probably a wet clutch) and much lighter design and I would only use the very lightest clutch pressure on my street bike (Ducati superbike) just to take the pressure off the gears.
Julian _____________________________________________________________________
From: DeTomaso <[1]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of Peter Menyhart <[2]pmenyhart@msn.com> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 5:29 AM To: Charles McCall; pantera forum Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content
Interesting question, when I'm in Germany in september I'll ask my brother.He works in development at BMW Motorcycle and also races vintage Wankel bikes. I think your right,the weight gain is probably too much. Peter check out our website at: [3]www.whitehorseranch.com From: [4]charlesmccall@gmail.com Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 09:45:11 +0200 To: [5]detomaso@detomasolist.com Subject: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content Motorcycle ramblings with a question at the end....
The weather has been absolutely fantastic here for the past few weeks, so I have been using my motorcycle for my daily commute to and from work. It's recently back on the road after more or less being in storage for 18 years. It is true that long term storage isn't good for vehicles - either cars or motorcycles. I filled the tank up with gas and it all ran right on the floor... hoses that had disintegrated with time. Got that repaired.
The gas on the floor was mixing with a massive oil leak caused by a gasket on the cam tensioner that dried out and cracked. Got that fixed.
I'm glad my motorcycle is air-cooled or I know what would be leaking now! We didn't get off to a good start this year!
The motorcycle is a 1982 Suzuki GS650, nothing particularly special but with a lot of sentimental value. I bought it when I was 19 and a college sophomore. I'd never been on a motorcycle in my life - neither as a passenger nor a driver. I walked into the local Suzuki dealer and said "I like that one, I'll buy it!" and paid for it with my visa card, at 19.6% interest. And I wonder why it took me so long to pay off my college loans? ;-)
We went to the parking lot and the salesman told me "This is the clutch, here's how you change gears, this is the front brake....have fun!" And I learned how to drive on the way home. Ah, youth!
The motorcycle has been all over the place. I went to Cornell University, in upstate NY, and my girlfriend at the time went to Michigan, so it made the trip many times. It's attended Sturgis (despite being a Japanese bike, but I drove it there unlike many of the Harleys!) prowled the streets of Chicago, etc. But it got put into storage when I moved to Europe and took a long time to catch up to me. It recently was made road-worthy and is still wearing US plates, although I'll have to fix that over the next year. It is very difficult and very expensive to insure a vehicle in Europe with US plates. But for those from the US or Canada attending Le Mans Classic - -IT CAN BE DONE!
Anyway, my question. The tendency in race cars and sports cars is moving away from a manual transmission to an automatic. I know that isn't quite true but don't really care if there is still technically a clutch or not - if there isn't a clutch pedal inside, then it's an automatic! Why hasn't the same thing happened with motorcycles? Because the shift time on a motorcycle is already so short? Do racers even use the clutch on a race bike? The weight associated with the mechanism is a larger percentage of a light bike as opposed to a car?
Just wondering this morning, as it was a nice morning for a ride and as there's no radio my mind went wandering... _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [6]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [7]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
References
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The 60:s - 70:s Volvo and Scania trucks I drove during my military service (1974/1975) were all synchro mesh. The Volvos had a 4 speed range transmission (1-4/5-8) while the Scanias had a 5 speed split (5 lo/hi)
The 50:s terrain trucks were non synchro, and they had no power steering either.
I'm amazed if current US trucks are non synchro.
My manual shift Audi quattros had some type of synchro on reverse. I believe it was some mechanism that stopped the gears spinning when you
_______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Honda offers one: [1]Honda Worldwide | Motorcycle Picture Book | Dual Clutch Transmission Scott Black Honda Worldwide | Motorcycle Picture Book | Dual Clutch Transmission Honda Motor Co.,Ltd. Honda Worldwide - Visit the official Honda global web site and find information on all Hond... TimePiece Public Relations & Marketing Marketing Acceleration www.tprm-usa.com On Friday, July 29, 2016 9:09 PM, Jeff Cobb <jeffcobb1@me.com> wrote: I had a Lamborghini 400 years back and it had a fully synchro on reverse as does my present day Espada. You can go into reverse with no drama or strong hand pressure while going forward and put those cars into reverse, let up the clutch and slow the car up then to a full back up. I believe all Lamborghini's had this feature. So strange and utterly cool. No find them to grind them. Very elegant shifting. Jeff Cobb On Jul 29, 2016, at 4:52 PM, Thomas TAP:rnblom <[2]tipo874@gmail.com> wrote: put it in reverse, not a full synchro.
The gearbox in the open wheel race cars we were driving on a course
used a similar engagement as an MC. It had no synchro and it would just say "clonk" when you shifted. You had to be distinct, otherwise it would grind, but it was very easy to shift. It also had straight cut gears, and it was whining quite loudly.
The MC gearboxes I've seen had all slant cut gears and was quiet, but
would "clonk" a bit when shifting.
Thomas
29 juli 2016 kl. 21:40 skrev Julian Kift
Charlie,
Yes the older British cars often lack a syncro in 1st (and reverse
is
not usually a syncro either). Shifting a non syncro requires getting the gears that are to be meshed spinning at roughly the same speed, best achieved via double clutching or knowing what revs to shift at (18 wheelers are all non syncro boxes, most truckers can shift without use of a clutch). You could try this in your folks MG-TD, i recommend some distance from their house until you have it down U1F609
The main difference in a motorcycle gearbox is it is a "constant mesh" i.e. all the gears are constantly meshed and spinning(no syncro required to spin up the gears). It is also sequential so shifting through the gears in order without ability bypass a gear (other
<[3]julian_kift@hotmail.com>: than
neutral to second as neutral is half click between first and second).
Julian
From: Charles McCall <[4]charlesmccall@gmail.com> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 11:56 AM To: 'Julian Kift'; 'Peter Menyhart'; 'pantera forum'; [5]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content
Julian - educate me if you don't mind.
You say that motorcycle gearboxes are non syncromesh.
My folks have a 1952 MG-TD that has syncromesh in 2^nd, 3^rd, and
4^th,
but not first. When you come to a stop, if you haven't come to a COMPLETE stop it'll crunch when you put it in first. It won't crunch if you put it in second and I was told that this was due to the lack of syncromesh.
If this is true, why doesn't my bike crunch when putting it in first while still rolling?
From: Julian Kift [mailto:[6]julian_kift@hotmail.com] Sent: viernes, 29 de julio de 2016 17:10 To: Peter Menyhart; Charles McCall; pantera forum; [7]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content
Charles,
I would postulate it is because a motorcycle gearbox is already a "race box", i.e. non syncromesh, dog box with straight cut gears, which is essentially the simplest and lightest gearbox you can get. Shifting without the clutch is fairly universal on race bikes and similar to race cars permitted by the straight cut gear design. Motorcycle clutches are now dry (whereas yours is probably a wet clutch) and much lighter design and I would only use the very lightest clutch pressure on my street bike (Ducati superbike) just to take the pressure off the gears.
Julian
From: DeTomaso <[1][8]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com> on
of Peter Menyhart <[2][9]pmenyhart@msn.com> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 5:29 AM To: Charles McCall; pantera forum Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content
Interesting question, when I'm in Germany in september I'll ask my brother.He works in development at BMW Motorcycle and also races vintage Wankel bikes. I think your right,the weight gain is probably too much. Peter check out our website at: [3]www.whitehorseranch.com From: [4][10]charlesmccall@gmail.com Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 09:45:11 +0200 To: [5][11]detomaso@detomasolist.com Subject: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content Motorcycle ramblings with a question at the end....
The weather has been absolutely fantastic here for the past few weeks, so I have been using my motorcycle for my daily commute to and from work. It's recently back on the road after more or less being in storage for 18 years. It is true that long term storage isn't good for vehicles - either cars or motorcycles. I filled the tank up with gas and it all ran right on
floor... hoses that had disintegrated with time. Got that repaired.
The gas on the floor was mixing with a massive oil leak caused by a gasket on the cam tensioner that dried out and cracked. Got that fixed.
I'm glad my motorcycle is air-cooled or I know what would be leaking now! We didn't get off to a good start this year!
The motorcycle is a 1982 Suzuki GS650, nothing particularly special but with a lot of sentimental value. I bought it when I was 19 and a college sophomore. I'd never been on a motorcycle in my life - neither as a passenger nor a driver. I walked into the local Suzuki dealer and said "I like that one, I'll buy it!" and paid for it with my visa card, at 19.6% interest. And I wonder why it took me so long to pay off my college loans? ;-)
We went to the parking lot and the salesman told me "This is the clutch, here's how you change gears, this is the front brake....have fun!" And I learned how to drive on the way home. Ah, youth!
The motorcycle has been all over the place. I went to Cornell University, in upstate NY, and my girlfriend at the time went to Michigan, so it made the trip many times. It's attended Sturgis (despite being a Japanese bike, but I drove it there unlike many of the Harleys!) prowled the streets of Chicago, etc. But it got put into storage when I moved to Europe and took a long time to catch up to me. It recently was made road-worthy and is still wearing US plates, although I'll have to fix that over the next year. It is very difficult and very expensive to insure a vehicle in Europe with US plates. But for those from the US or Canada attending Le Mans Classic - -IT CAN BE DONE!
Anyway, my question. The tendency in race cars and sports cars is moving away from a manual transmission to an automatic. I know that isn't quite true but don't really care if there is still technically a clutch or not - if there isn't a clutch pedal inside, then it's an automatic! Why hasn't the same thing happened with motorcycles? Because the shift time on a motorcycle is already so short? Do racers even use the clutch on a race bike? The weight associated with the mechanism is a larger
of a light bike as opposed to a car?
Just wondering this morning, as it was a nice morning for a ride and as there's no radio my mind went wandering... _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [6][12]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [7][13]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
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Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [25]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [26]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References Visible links 1. http://world.honda.com/motorcycle-picturebook/DCT/ 2. mailto:tipo874@gmail.com 3. mailto:julian_kift@hotmail.com 4. mailto:charlesmccall@gmail.com 5. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 6. mailto:julian_kift@hotmail.com 7. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 8. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 9. mailto:pmenyhart@msn.com 10. mailto:charlesmccall@gmail.com 11. mailto:detomaso@detomasolist.com 12. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 13. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 14. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 15. mailto:pmenyhart@msn.com 16. http://www.whitehorseranch.com/ 17. mailto:charlesmccall@gmail.com 18. mailto:detomaso@detomasolist.com 19. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 20. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 21. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 22. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 23. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 24. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 25. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 26. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso Hidden links: 28. http://world.honda.com/motorcycle-picturebook/DCT/
There is no market. Honda made a stab at an automatic motorcycle in the 70's. Nobody bought one. It was slow and slushy and no fun to ride. They come up on CL sometimes and are pretty much given away for free. "Please get this thing out of there. Thank you." Motorcycle riders are adventurous, risk-taking types. Shifting is part of the fun and gives you more precise control which, in certain situations, may save a rider's life. Automatic transmissions are for people who really would prefer that someone else do the driving, or for people who sit in city traffic a lot. Paddle shifters are not even really all that fun, in my experience, being really more of a racing device to eliminate throttle lag when manually engaging a clutch. Sent using Hushmail On July 29, 2016 at 12:45 AM, "Charles McCall" wrote:Motorcycle ramblings with a question at the end.... The weather has been absolutely fantastic here for the past few weeks, so I have been using my motorcycle for my daily commute to and from work. It's recently back on the road after more or less being in storage for 18 years. It is true that long term storage isn't good for vehicles - either cars or motorcycles. I filled the tank up with gas and it all ran right on the floor... hoses that had disintegrated with time. Got that repaired. The gas on the floor was mixing with a massive oil leak caused by a gasket on the cam tensioner that dried out and cracked. Got that fixed. I'm glad my motorcycle is air-cooled or I know what would be leaking now! We didn't get off to a good start this year! The motorcycle is a 1982 Suzuki GS650, nothing particularly special but with a lot of sentimental value. I bought it when I was 19 and a college sophomore. I'd never been on a motorcycle in my life - neither as a passenger nor a driver. I walked into the local Suzuki dealer and said "I like that one, I'll buy it!" and paid for it with my visa card, at 19.6% interest. And I wonder why it took me so long to pay off my college loans? ;-) We went to the parking lot and the salesman told me "This is the clutch, here's how you change gears, this is the front brake....have fun!" And I learned how to drive on the way home. Ah, youth! The motorcycle has been all over the place. I went to Cornell University, in upstate NY, and my girlfriend at the time went to Michigan, so it made the trip many times. It's attended Sturgis (despite being a Japanese bike, but I drove it there unlike many of the Harleys!) prowled the streets of Chicago, etc. But it got put into storage when I moved to Europe and took a long time to catch up to me. It recently was made road-worthy and is still wearing US plates, although I'll have to fix that over the next year. It is very difficult and very expensive to insure a vehicle in Europe with US plates. But for those from the US or Canada attending Le Mans Classic - -IT CAN BE DONE! Anyway, my question. The tendency in race cars and sports cars is moving away from a manual transmission to an automatic. I know that isn't quite true but don't really care if there is still technically a clutch or not - if there isn't a clutch pedal inside, then it's an automatic! Why hasn't the same thing happened with motorcycles? Because the shift time on a motorcycle is already so short? Do racers even use the clutch on a race bike? The weight associated with the mechanism is a larger percentage of a light bike as opposed to a car? Just wondering this morning, as it was a nice morning for a ride and as there's no radio my mind went wandering... There is no market. Honda made a stab at an automatic motorcycle in the 70's. Nobody bought one. It was slow and slushy and no fun to ride. They come up on CL sometimes and are pretty much given away for free. "Please get this thing out of there. Thank you." Motorcycle riders are adventurous, risk-taking types. Shifting is part of the fun and gives you more precise control which, in certain situations, may save a rider's life. Automatic transmissions are for people who really would prefer that someone else do the driving, or for people who sit in city traffic a lot. Paddle shifters are not even really all that fun, in my experience, being really more of a racing device to eliminate throttle lag when manually engaging a clutch. Sent using Hushmail On July 29, 2016 at 12:45 AM, "Charles McCall" <charlesmccall@gmail.com> wrote: Motorcycle ramblings with a question at the end.... The weather has been absolutely fantastic here for the past few weeks, so I have been using my motorcycle for my daily commute to and from work. It's recently back on the road after more or less being in storage for 18 years. It is true that long term storage isn't good for vehicles - either cars or motorcycles. I filled the tank up with gas and it all ran right on the floor... hoses that had disintegrated with time. Got that repaired. The gas on the floor was mixing with a massive oil leak caused by a gasket on the cam tensioner that dried out and cracked. Got that fixed. I'm glad my motorcycle is air-cooled or I know what would be leaking now! We didn't get off to a good start this year! The motorcycle is a 1982 Suzuki GS650, nothing particularly special but with a lot of sentimental value. I bought it when I was 19 and a college sophomore. I'd never been on a motorcycle in my life - neither as a passenger nor a driver. I walked into the local Suzuki dealer and said "I like that one, I'll buy it!" and paid for it with my visa card, at 19.6% interest. And I wonder why it took me so long to pay off my college loans? ;-) We went to the parking lot and the salesman told me "This is the clutch, here's how you change gears, this is the front brake....have fun!" And I learned how to drive on the way home. Ah, youth! The motorcycle has been all over the place. I went to Cornell University, in upstate NY, and my girlfriend at the time went to Michigan, so it made the trip many times. It's attended Sturgis (despite being a Japanese bike, but I drove it there unlike many of the Harleys!) prowled the streets of Chicago, etc. But it got put into storage when I moved to Europe and took a long time to catch up to me. It recently was made road-worthy and is still wearing US plates, although I'll have to fix that over the next year. It is very difficult and very expensive to insure a vehicle in Europe with US plates. But for those from the US or Canada attending Le Mans Classic - -IT CAN BE DONE! Anyway, my question. The tendency in race cars and sports cars is moving away from a manual transmission to an automatic. I know that isn't quite true but don't really care if there is still technically a clutch or not - if there isn't a clutch pedal inside, then it's an automatic! Why hasn't the same thing happened with motorcycles? Because the shift time on a motorcycle is already so short? Do racers even use the clutch on a race bike? The weight associated with the mechanism is a larger percentage of a light bike as opposed to a car? Just wondering this morning, as it was a nice morning for a ride and as there's no radio my mind went wandering...
participants (10)
-
audionut＠hushmail.com -
Charles McCall -
Jeff Cobb -
JEFFREY COBB
-
Joseph F. Byrd, Jr. -
Julian Kift -
Peter Menyhart -
scott black -
Scott Couchman -
Thomas Törnblom