Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis
Now wait a minute Dick, what you write here is WAY too level-headed for this forum! Who is this really?? All joking aside, I obtain multiple bids for every one of a 'number' of projects that I need to conduct every year. If I found a company that could save me $8,000 a year on a particular project, I would have felt like I won the lottery! Sure, every once in a while the new company who submitted the lowest bid does not do as good of a job of the old one but when that happens, I go back to the next bid which sometimes was the same company I used previously and all is back to normal.$8,000 a year is an awful lot of money just to stay with the company that you have and had comfort with. The statement of adding color to the newsletter would of course cost a bit more money but when you consider that we would be saving $8,000 off the top, we have a touch more money to play with and the savings would still be very sizable. Plus, if any car club newsletter in this country is worthy of several color pages, it absolutely would be Jack DeRyke's!! This club is and will be indebted to you forever Jack! Thanks for the wonderful work you do to keep our colorful jalopies on the road!! Marshall Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Dick Koch <redcatman74@gmail.com> Date: 05/29/2016 9:57 AM (GMT-08:00) To: Ed Mendez <edducati@mac.com> Cc: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and non-productive comments that have been made in recent weeks, many very personal and vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the club. It is good to have different points of view on club business. But to present one's point of view in a negative and personal manner, does nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and their persona in the eyes of others. From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many of the detractors do not have much experience in running a business. And make no mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To thrive, this club must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance it's value add to it's customers. As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the newsletter, for the board to not look for less expensive options, as with any other expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible. I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would have folks want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive and provides less for much more money. We have enough cronyism in our government. Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has been a reason for keeping a more expensive service that provides less. I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail the newsletter, that can be printed by anyone that is not to lazy to take 3 minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative. As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one person. Each person on the board has a say, with a majority required to decide on every issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just that, pointless. Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member of the board to the other members of the board, showing how approving that item would benefit the club member's experience, with the underlying financial implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs long term financial health. Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a constructive manner, with negative comments of a personal nature irrelevant and therefore non-constructive. I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and to think they are doing their job for free. What a deal... By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their comments, take it out on me. I deserve it for letting 6831 sit idle with a blown header gasket for years. Peace, fellow "cat" owners. Dick Koch - Atlanta Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky enough to be on the sunny side of the grass. On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez" <edducati@mac.com> wrote:
See below.
On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige <rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote:
It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace period without notice.
False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning at 30 days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club, Ferrari club, Porsche club, they all have similar rules.
The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10 increased rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first place. The return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven. Simply, use the money to pay for our publication costs.
False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority chapter presidents.
PROPOSED: $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund the $62.52 publication estimate per MS.
That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive quotes for printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that is $8000 per year cheaper than the one we are currently using.
Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year. Carrying 853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year. Divide that into 100,000 means funding covers 46.5 YEARS.
False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve in the bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in reserve. You can google there income statements.
OPINION:
I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4 vote but there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has proposed. Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing the actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions for
False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things we have coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in fact there very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best interest of the club
This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and should not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look bad. If you have an issue talk with someone about your concern, preferably your chapter president, they are your representative as in any organization. It's very easy to simply pick up the phone instead of using this email list as a podium for your disdain of MS. It's obvious, we get it. Please take it offline.
If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and many others before me, and run for office.
Kind regards
(Information taken from the Presidents Blog.) _______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
See below.
On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige <rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote:
It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace
without notice.
False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning at 30 days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club, Ferrari club, Porsche club, they all have similar rules.
The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10 increased rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first place.
return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven. Simply, use the money to pay for our publication costs. False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority chapter
The presidents.
PROPOSED: $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund the $62.52 publication estimate per MS.
That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive quotes for printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that is $8000 per year cheaper than the one we are currently using.
Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year.
Carrying
853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year. Divide that into 100,000 means funding covers 46.5 YEARS. False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve in
bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in reserve. You can google there income statements.
OPINION:
I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4 vote but there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has proposed. Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing the actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions for
False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things we have coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in fact
very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best interest of the club
This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and should not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look bad. If you have an issue talk with someone about your concern, preferably your chapter president, they are your representative as in any organization. It's very easy to simply pick up the phone instead of using this email list as a podium for your disdain of MS. It's obvious, we get it. Please take it offline.
If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and many others before me, and run for office.
Kind regards
(Information taken from the Presidents Blog.) _______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and non-productive comments that have been made in recent weeks, many very personal and vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the club. It is good to have different points of view on club business. But to present one's point of view in a negative and personalA manner, does nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and their persona in the eyes of others. From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many of the detractors do not have much experience in running a business. And make no mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To thrive, this club must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance it's value add to it's customers. As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the newsletter, for the board to not look for less expensive options, as with any other expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible. I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would have folks want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive and provides less for much more money.A We have enough cronyism in our government. Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has been a reason for keeping a more expensive service that provides less. I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail the newsletter, that can be printed by anyoneA that is not to lazy to take 3 minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative. As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one person.A Each person on the board has a say, with a majority required to decide on every issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just that, pointless. Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member of the board to the other members of the board, showing how approving that item would benefit the club member's experience, with the underlying financial implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs long term financial health. Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a constructive manner, with negative comments of a personal nature irrelevant and therefore non-constructive. I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and to think they are doing their job for free. What a deal... By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their comments, take it out on me.A I deserve it for letting 6831 sit idle with a blown header gasket for years. Peace, fellow "cat" owners. Dick Koch - Atlanta Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky enough to be on the sunny side of the grass. On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez" <[1]edducati@mac.com> wrote: See below. > On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige <[2]rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote: > >A It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace period >A without notice. False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning at 30 days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club, Ferrari club, Porsche club, they all have similar rules. > >A The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10 increased >A rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first place.A The >A return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven.A Simply, use >A the money to pay for our publication costs. False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority chapter presidents. >A PROPOSED:A $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund the $62.52 >A publication estimate per MS. That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive quotes for printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that is $8000 per year cheaper than the one we are currently using. > >A Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year.A Carrying >A 853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year.A Divide that into 100,000 >A means funding covers 46.5 YEARS. False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve in the bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in reserve. You can google there income statements. >A OPINION: > >A I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4 vote but >A there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has >A proposed.A Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing the >A actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions for False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things we have coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in fact there very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best interest of the club This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and should not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look bad. If you have an issue talk with someone about your concern, preferably your chapter president, they are your representative as in any organization. It's very easy to simply pick up the phone instead of using this email list as a podium for your disdain of MS. It's obvious, we get it. Please take it offline. If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and many others before me, and run for office. Kind regards >A (Information taken from the Presidents Blog.) > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > [3]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > [4]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [5]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [6]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:edducati@mac.com 2. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 3. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 4. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 5. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 6. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Now wait a minute Dick, what you write here is WAY too level-headed for this forum! Who is this really?? All joking aside, I obtain multiple bids for every one of a 'number' of projects that I need to conduct every year. If I found a company that could save me $8,000 a year on a particular project, I would have felt like I won the lottery! Sure, every once in a while the new company who submitted the lowest bid does not do as good of a job of the old one but when that happens, I go back to the next bid which sometimes was the same company I used previously and all is back to normal. $8,000 a year is an awful lot of money just to stay with the company that you have and had comfort with. The statement of adding color to the newsletter would of course cost a bit more money but when you consider that we would be saving $8,000 off the top, we have a touch more money to play with and the savings would still be very sizable. Plus, if any car club newsletter in this country is worthy of several color pages, it absolutely would be Jack DeRyke's!! This club is and will be indebted to you forever Jack! Thanks for the wonderful work you do to keep our colorful jalopies on the road!! Marshall Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Dick Koch <redcatman74@gmail.com> Date: 05/29/2016 9:57 AM (GMT-08:00) To: Ed Mendez <edducati@mac.com> Cc: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and non-productive comments that have been made in recent weeks, many very personal and vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the club. It is good to have different points of view on club business. But to present one's point of view in a negative and personal manner, does nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and their persona in the eyes of others. From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many of the detractors do not have much experience in running a business. And make no mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To thrive, this club must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance it's value add to it's customers. As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the newsletter, for the board to not look for less expensive options, as with any other expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible. I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would have folks want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive and provides less for much more money. We have enough cronyism in our government. Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has been a reason for keeping a more expensive service that provides less. I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail the newsletter, that can be printed by anyone that is not to lazy to take 3 minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative. As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one person. Each person on the board has a say, with a majority required to decide on every issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just that, pointless. Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member of the board to the other members of the board, showing how approving that item would benefit the club member's experience, with the underlying financial implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs long term financial health. Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a constructive manner, with negative comments of a personal nature irrelevant and therefore non-constructive. I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and to think they are doing their job for free. What a deal... By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their comments, take it out on me. I deserve it for letting 6831 sit idle with a blown header gasket for years. Peace, fellow "cat" owners. Dick Koch - Atlanta Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky enough to be on the sunny side of the grass. On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez" <edducati@mac.com> wrote: period the there list. list.
They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and non-productive comments that have been made in recent weeks, many very personal and vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the club. It is good to have different points of view on club business. But to present one's point of view in a negative and personalA manner, does nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and their persona in the eyes of others. From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many of the detractors do not have much experience in running a business. And make no mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To thrive, this club must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance it's value add to it's customers. As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the newsletter, for the board to not look for less expensive options, as with any other expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible. I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would have folks want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive and provides less for much more money.A We have enough cronyism in our government. Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has been a reason for keeping a more expensive service that provides less. I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail the newsletter, that can be printed by anyoneA that is not to lazy to take 3 minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative. As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one person.A Each person on the board has a say, with a majority required to decide on every issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just that, pointless. Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member of the board to the other members of the board, showing how approving that item would benefit the club member's experience, with the underlying financial implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs long term financial health. Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a constructive manner, with negative comments of a personal nature irrelevant and therefore non-constructive. I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and to think they are doing their job for free. What a deal... By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their comments, take it out on me.A I deserve it for letting 6831 sit idle with a blown header gasket for years. Peace, fellow "cat" owners. Dick Koch - Atlanta Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky enough to be on the sunny side of the grass. On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez" <[1]edducati@mac.com> wrote: See below. > On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige <[2]rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote: > >A It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace period >A without notice. False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning at 30 days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club, Ferrari club, Porsche club, they all have similar rules. > >A The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10 increased >A rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first place.A The >A return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven.A Simply, use >A the money to pay for our publication costs. False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority chapter presidents. >A PROPOSED:A $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund the $62.52 >A publication estimate per MS. That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive quotes for printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that is $8000 per year cheaper than the one we are currently using. > >A Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year.A Carrying >A 853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year.A Divide that into 100,000 >A means funding covers 46.5 YEARS. False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve in the bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in reserve. You can google there income statements. >A OPINION: > >A I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4 vote but >A there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has >A proposed.A Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing the >A actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions for False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things we have coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in fact there very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best interest of the club This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and should not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look bad. If you have an issue talk with someone about your concern, preferably your chapter president, they are your representative as in any organization. It's very easy to simply pick up the phone instead of using this email list as a podium for your disdain of MS. It's obvious, we get it. Please take it offline. If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and many others before me, and run for office. Kind regards >A (Information taken from the Presidents Blog.) > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > [3]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > [4]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [5]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [6]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:edducati@mac.com 2. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 3. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 4. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 5. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 6. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
Well said Marshall! Many Kudos to Jack DeRyke from me too! We love your work! Sent from Effie's iPad
On May 29, 2016, at 4:05 PM, marshallgsmith <marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Now wait a minute Dick, what you write here is WAY too level-headed for this forum!
Who is this really??
All joking aside, I obtain multiple bids for every one of a 'number' of projects that I need to conduct every year. If I found a company that could save me $8,000 a year on a particular project, I would have felt like I won the lottery!
Sure, every once in a while the new company who submitted the lowest bid does not do as good of a job of the old one but when that happens, I go back to the next bid which sometimes was the same company I used previously and all is back to normal.
$8,000 a year is an awful lot of money just to stay with the company that you have and had comfort with.
The statement of adding color to the newsletter would of course cost a bit more money but when you consider that we would be saving $8,000 off the top, we have a touch more money to play with and the savings would still be very sizable.
Plus, if any car club newsletter in this country is worthy of several color pages, it absolutely would be Jack DeRyke's!! This club is and will be indebted to you forever Jack! Thanks for the wonderful work you do to keep our colorful jalopies on the road!!
Marshall
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez" <edducati@mac.com> wrote: See below.
On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige <rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote:
It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace
without notice.
False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning at 30 days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club, Ferrari club, Porsche club, they all have similar rules.
The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10 increased rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first place.
return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven. Simply, use the money to pay for our publication costs. False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority chapter
The presidents.
PROPOSED: $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund the $62.52 publication estimate per MS.
That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive quotes for printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that is $8000 per year cheaper than the one we are currently using.
Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year.
Carrying
853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year. Divide that into 100,000 means funding covers 46.5 YEARS. False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve in
bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in reserve. You can google there income statements.
OPINION:
I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4 vote but there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has proposed. Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing the actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions for
False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things we have coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in fact
very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best interest of the club
This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and should not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look bad. If you have an issue talk with someone about your concern, preferably your chapter president, they are your representative as in any organization. It's very easy to simply pick up the phone instead of using this email list as a podium for your disdain of MS. It's obvious, we get it. Please take it offline.
If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and many others before me, and run for office.
Kind regards
(Information taken from the Presidents Blog.) _______________________________________________
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Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and non-productive comments that have been made in recent weeks, many very personal and vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the club. It is good to have different points of view on club business. But to present one's point of view in a negative and personalA manner, does nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and
-------- Original message -------- From: Dick Koch <redcatman74@gmail.com> Date: 05/29/2016 9:57 AM (GMT-08:00) To: Ed Mendez <edducati@mac.com> Cc: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and non-productive comments that have been made in recent weeks, many very personal and vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the club. It is good to have different points of view on club business. But to present one's point of view in a negative and personal manner, does nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and their persona in the eyes of others. From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many of the detractors do not have much experience in running a business. And make no mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To thrive, this club must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance it's value add to it's customers. As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the newsletter, for the board to not look for less expensive options, as with any other expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible. I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would have folks want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive and provides less for much more money. We have enough cronyism in our government. Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has been a reason for keeping a more expensive service that provides less. I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail the newsletter, that can be printed by anyone that is not to lazy to take 3 minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative. As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one person. Each person on the board has a say, with a majority required to decide on every issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just that, pointless. Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member of the board to the other members of the board, showing how approving that item would benefit the club member's experience, with the underlying financial implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs long term financial health. Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a constructive manner, with negative comments of a personal nature irrelevant and therefore non-constructive. I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and to think they are doing their job for free. What a deal... By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their comments, take it out on me. I deserve it for letting 6831 sit idle with a blown header gasket for years. Peace, fellow "cat" owners. Dick Koch - Atlanta Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky enough to be on the sunny side of the grass. period the there list. list. their persona in the eyes of others. From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many of the detractors do not have much experience in running a business. And make no mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To thrive, this club must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance it's value add to it's customers. As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the newsletter, for the board to not look for less expensive options, as with any other expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible. I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would have folks want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive and provides less for much more money.A We have enough cronyism in our government. Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has been a reason for keeping a more expensive service that provides less. I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail the newsletter, that can be printed by anyoneA that is not to lazy to take 3 minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative. As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one person.A Each person on the board has a say, with a majority required to decide on every issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just that, pointless. Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member of the board to the other members of the board, showing how approving that item would benefit the club member's experience, with the underlying financial implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs long term financial health. Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a constructive manner, with negative comments of a personal nature irrelevant and therefore non-constructive. I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and to think they are doing their job for free. What a deal... By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their comments, take it out on me.A I deserve it for letting 6831 sit idle with a blown header gasket for years. Peace, fellow "cat" owners. Dick Koch - Atlanta Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky enough to be on the sunny side of the grass.
On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez" <[1]edducati@mac.com> wrote: See below. On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige
<[2]rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote:
A It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace
A without notice. False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning at 30 days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club, Ferrari club, Porsche club, they all have similar rules.
A The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10 increased A rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first place.A The A return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven.A Simply, use A the money to pay for our publication costs. False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority chapter presidents. A PROPOSED:A $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund
period the $62.52
A publication estimate per MS. That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive quotes for printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that is $8000 per year cheaper than the one we are currently using.
A Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year.A Carrying A 853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year.A Divide that into 100,000 A means funding covers 46.5 YEARS. False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve in the bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in reserve. You can google there income statements. A OPINION:
A I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4 vote but A there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has A proposed.A Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing the A actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions for False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things we have coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in fact there very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best interest of the club This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and should not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look bad. If you have an issue talk with someone about your concern, preferably your chapter president, they are your representative as in any organization. It's very easy to simply pick up the phone instead of using this email list as a podium for your disdain of MS. It's obvious, we get it. Please take it offline. If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and many others before me, and run for office. Kind regards A (Information taken from the Presidents Blog.) _______________________________________________
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I thought the newsletter was going to be online only (hence will be color for free) , while only the Profiles will on paper and mailed. No? I don't see why anyone would not renew their membership-- with all the old publications online and an improved website the club has more to offer than ever. Jim Oddie -----Original Message----- From: Effie Richards <erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com> To: marshallgsmith <marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net> Cc: detomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Sun, May 29, 2016 5:08 pm Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis Well said Marshall! Many Kudos to Jack DeRyke from me too! We love your work! Sent from Effie's iPad
On May 29, 2016, at 4:05 PM, marshallgsmith <marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Now wait a minute Dick, what you write here is WAY too level-headed for this forum!
Who is this really??
All joking aside, I obtain multiple bids for every one of a 'number' of projects that I need to conduct every year. If I found a company that could save me $8,000 a year on a particular project, I would have felt like I won the lottery!
Sure, every once in a while the new company who submitted the lowest bid does not do as good of a job of the old one but when that happens, I go back to the next bid which sometimes was the same company I used previously and all is back to normal.
$8,000 a year is an awful lot of money just to stay with the company that you have and had comfort with.
The statement of adding color to the newsletter would of course cost a bit more money but when you consider that we would be saving $8,000 off the top, we have a touch more money to play with and the savings would still be very sizable.
Plus, if any car club newsletter in this country is worthy of several color pages, it absolutely would be Jack DeRyke's!! This club is and will be indebted to you forever Jack! Thanks for the wonderful work you do to keep our colorful jalopies on the road!!
Marshall
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez" <edducati@mac.com> wrote: See below.
On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige <rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote:
It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace
without notice.
False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning at 30 days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club, Ferrari club, Porsche club, they all have similar rules.
The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10 increased rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first place.
return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven. Simply, use the money to pay for our publication costs. False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority chapter
The presidents.
PROPOSED: $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund the $62.52 publication estimate per MS.
That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive quotes for printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that is $8000 per year cheaper than the one we are currently using.
Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year.
Carrying
853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year. Divide that into 100,000 means funding covers 46.5 YEARS. False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve in
bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in reserve. You can google there income statements.
OPINION:
I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4 vote but there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has proposed. Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing the actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions for
False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things we have coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in fact
very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best interest of the club
This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and should not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look bad. If you have an issue talk with someone about your concern, preferably your chapter president, they are your representative as in any organization. It's very easy to simply pick up the phone instead of using this email list as a podium for your disdain of MS. It's obvious, we get it. Please take it offline.
If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and many others before me, and run for office.
Kind regards
(Information taken from the Presidents Blog.) _______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and non-productive comments that have been made in recent weeks, many very personal and vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the club. It is good to have different points of view on club business. But to present one's point of view in a negative and personalA manner, does nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and
-------- Original message -------- From: Dick Koch <redcatman74@gmail.com> Date: 05/29/2016 9:57 AM (GMT-08:00) To: Ed Mendez <edducati@mac.com> Cc: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and non-productive comments that have been made in recent weeks, many very personal and vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the club. It is good to have different points of view on club business. But to present one's point of view in a negative and personal manner, does nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and their persona in the eyes of others. From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many of the detractors do not have much experience in running a business. And make no mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To thrive, this club must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance it's value add to it's customers. As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the newsletter, for the board to not look for less expensive options, as with any other expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible. I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would have folks want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive and provides less for much more money. We have enough cronyism in our government. Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has been a reason for keeping a more expensive service that provides less. I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail the newsletter, that can be printed by anyone that is not to lazy to take 3 minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative. As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one person. Each person on the board has a say, with a majority required to decide on every issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just that, pointless. Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member of the board to the other members of the board, showing how approving that item would benefit the club member's experience, with the underlying financial implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs long term financial health. Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a constructive manner, with negative comments of a personal nature irrelevant and therefore non-constructive. I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and to think they are doing their job for free. What a deal... By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their comments, take it out on me. I deserve it for letting 6831 sit idle with a blown header gasket for years. Peace, fellow "cat" owners. Dick Koch - Atlanta Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky enough to be on the sunny side of the grass. period the there list. list. their persona in the eyes of others. From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many of the detractors do not have much experience in running a business. And make no mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To thrive, this club must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance it's value add to it's customers. As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the newsletter, for the board to not look for less expensive options, as with any other expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible. I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would have folks want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive and provides less for much more money.A We have enough cronyism in our government. Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has been a reason for keeping a more expensive service that provides less. I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail the newsletter, that can be printed by anyoneA that is not to lazy to take 3 minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative. As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one person.A Each person on the board has a say, with a majority required to decide on every issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just that, pointless. Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member of the board to the other members of the board, showing how approving that item would benefit the club member's experience, with the underlying financial implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs long term financial health. Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a constructive manner, with negative comments of a personal nature irrelevant and therefore non-constructive. I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and to think they are doing their job for free. What a deal... By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their comments, take it out on me.A I deserve it for letting 6831 sit idle with a blown header gasket for years. Peace, fellow "cat" owners. Dick Koch - Atlanta Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky enough to be on the sunny side of the grass.
On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez" <[1]edducati@mac.com> wrote: See below. On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige
<[2]rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote:
A It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace
A without notice. False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning at 30 days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club, Ferrari club, Porsche club, they all have similar rules.
A The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10 increased A rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first
A return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven.A Simply, use A the money to pay for our publication costs. False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority chapter presidents. A PROPOSED:A $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund
period place.A The the $62.52
A publication estimate per MS. That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive quotes for printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that is $8000 per year cheaper than the one we are currently using.
A Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year.A Carrying A 853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year.A Divide that into 100,000 A means funding covers 46.5 YEARS. False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve in the bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in reserve. You can google there income statements. A OPINION:
A I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4 vote but A there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has A proposed.A Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing the A actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions for False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things we have coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in fact there very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best interest of the club This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and should not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look bad. If you have an issue talk with someone about your concern, preferably your chapter president, they are your representative as in any organization. It's very easy to simply pick up the phone instead of using this email list as a podium for your disdain of MS. It's obvious, we get it. Please take it offline. If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and many others before me, and run for office. Kind regards A (Information taken from the Presidents Blog.) _______________________________________________
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On May 29, 2016, at 4:05 PM, marshallgsmith <[1]marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Now wait a minute Dick, what you write here is WAY too level-headed for this forum!
Who is this really??
All joking aside, I obtain multiple bids for every one of a 'number' of projects that I need to conduct every year. If I found a company that could save me $8,000 a year on a particular project, I would have felt like I won the lottery!
Sure, every once in a while the new company who submitted the lowest bid does not do as good of a job of the old one but when that happens, I go back to the next bid which sometimes was the same company I used previously and all is back to normal.
$8,000 a year is an awful lot of money just to stay with the company that you have and had comfort with.
The statement of adding color to the newsletter would of course cost a bit more money but when you consider that we would be saving $8,000 off the top, we have a touch more money to play with and the savings would still be very sizable.
Plus, if any car club newsletter in this country is worthy of several color pages, it absolutely would be Jack DeRyke's!! This club is and will be indebted to you forever Jack! Thanks for the wonderful work you do to keep our colorful jalopies on the road!!
Marshall
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message -------- From: Dick Koch <[2]redcatman74@gmail.com> Date: 05/29/2016 9:57 AM (GMT-08:00) To: Ed Mendez <[3]edducati@mac.com> Cc: [4]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and non-productive comments that have been made in recent weeks, many very personal and vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the club. It is good to have different points of view on club business. But to present one's point of view in a negative and personal manner, does nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and
persona in the eyes of others. From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many of the detractors do not have much experience in running a business. And make no mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To thrive, this club must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance it's value add to it's customers. As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the newsletter, for the board to not look for less expensive options, as with any other expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible. I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would have folks want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive and provides less for much more money. We have enough cronyism in our government. Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has been a reason for keeping a more expensive service that provides less. I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail the newsletter, that can be printed by anyone that is not to lazy to take 3 minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative. As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one person. Each person on the board has a say, with a majority required to decide on every issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just that,
On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez" <[5]edducati@mac.com> wrote: See below.
On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige <[6]rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote:
It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace
without notice.
False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning at 30 days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club, Ferrari club, Porsche club, they all have similar rules.
The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10 increased rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first place.
return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven. Simply, use the money to pay for our publication costs. False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority chapter
The presidents.
PROPOSED: $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund the $62.52 publication estimate per MS.
That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive quotes for printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that is $8000 per year cheaper than the one we are currently using.
Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year.
Carrying
853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year. Divide that into 100,000 means funding covers 46.5 YEARS. False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve in
bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in reserve. You can google there income statements.
OPINION:
I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4 vote but there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has proposed. Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing the actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions for
False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things we have coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in fact
very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best interest of the club
This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and should not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look bad. If you have an issue talk with someone about your concern, preferably your chapter president, they are your representative as in any organization. It's very easy to simply pick up the phone instead of using this email list as a podium for your disdain of MS. It's obvious, we get it. Please take it offline.
If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and many others before me, and run for office.
Kind regards
(Information taken from the Presidents Blog.) _______________________________________________
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They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and non-productive comments that have been made in recent weeks, many very
On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez" <[1][11]edducati@mac.com> wrote: See below. On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige <[2][12]rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote:
A It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace
A without notice. False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning at 30 days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club, Ferrari club, Porsche club, they all have similar rules.
A The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10 increased A rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first
A return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven.A Simply, use A the money to pay for our publication costs. False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority chapter presidents. A PROPOSED:A $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund
A publication estimate per MS. That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive quotes for printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that is $8000 per year cheaper than the one we are currently using.
A Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year.A Carrying A 853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year.A Divide that into 100,000 A means funding covers 46.5 YEARS. False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve in
A OPINION:
A I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4 vote but A there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has A proposed.A Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing
A actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions for False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things we have coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in fact there very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best interest of the club This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and should not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look bad. If you have an issue talk with someone about your concern,
A (Information taken from the Presidents Blog.) _______________________________________________
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Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member of the board to the other members of the board, showing how approving that item would benefit the club member's experience, with the underlying financial implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs long term financial health. Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a constructive manner, with negative comments of a personal nature irrelevant and therefore non-constructive. I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and to think they are doing their job for free. What a deal... By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their comments, take it out on me. I deserve it for letting 6831 sit idle with a blown header gasket for years. Peace, fellow "cat" owners. Dick Koch - Atlanta Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky enough to be on the sunny side of the grass. period the there list. list. personal and vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the club. It is good to have different points of view on club business. But to present one's point of view in a negative and personalA manner, does nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and their persona in the eyes of others. From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many of the detractors do not have much experience in running a business. And make no mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To thrive, this club must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance it's value add to it's customers. As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the newsletter, for the board to not look for less expensive options, as with any other expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible. I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would have folks want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive and provides less for much more money.A We have enough cronyism in our government. Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has been a reason for keeping a more expensive service that provides less. I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail the newsletter, that can be printed by anyoneA that is not to lazy to take 3 minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative. As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one person.A Each person on the board has a say, with a majority required to decide on every issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just that, pointless. Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member of the board to the other members of the board, showing how approving that item would benefit the club member's experience, with the underlying financial implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs long term financial health. Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a constructive manner, with negative comments of a personal nature irrelevant and therefore non-constructive. I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and to think they are doing their job for free. What a deal... By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their comments, take it out on me.A I deserve it for letting 6831 sit idle with a blown header gasket for years. Peace, fellow "cat" owners. Dick Koch - Atlanta Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky enough to be on the sunny side of the grass. period place.A The the $62.52 the bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in reserve. You can google there income statements. the preferably your chapter president, they are your representative as in any organization. It's very easy to simply pick up the phone instead of using this email list as a podium for your disdain of MS. It's obvious, we get it. Please take it offline. If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and many others before me, and run for office. Kind regards the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [5][15]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [6][16]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. [17]mailto:edducati@mac.com 2. [18]mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 3. [19]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 4. [20]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 5. [21]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 6. [22]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [23]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [24]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. I thought the newsletter was going to be online only (hence will be color for free) , while only the Profiles will on paper and mailed. No? I don't see why anyone would not renew their membership-- with all the old publications online and an improved website the club has more to offer than ever. Jim Oddie -----Original Message----- From: Effie Richards <erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com> To: marshallgsmith <marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net> Cc: detomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Sun, May 29, 2016 5:08 pm Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis Well said Marshall! Many Kudos to Jack DeRyke from me too! We love your work! Sent from Effie's iPad their pointless. list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [27]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [28]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net 2. mailto:redcatman74@gmail.com 3. mailto:edducati@mac.com 4. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 5. mailto:edducati@mac.com 6. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 7. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 8. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 9. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 10. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 11. mailto:edducati@mac.com 12. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 13. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 14. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 15. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 16. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 17. mailto:edducati@mac.com? 18. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com? 19. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 20. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 21. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 22. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 23. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 24. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 25. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 26. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 27. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 28. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
I don¹t think there¹s anyone in the club that thinks it¹s a bad idea to ³bid out² to find someone that will publish for cheaper. The issue is around the need to increase dues, while also switching to full color for the newsletter, especially when we also have a quarterly (sometimes) Profiles. If we need to cut costs, don¹t increase them by making the newsletter full color. It isn¹t needed. The best suggestion is to combine the newsletter and Profiles, and to switch to bi-monthly instead of quarterly. That cuts the mailings to 6 instead of 12, and the printings to 6 instead of 16. It also gives the appearance of a more cohesive club. Something like this was suggested a few years ago, and while it obviously died, I didn¹t hear any of the arguments for/against. On 5/29/16, 8:29 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Pantdino via DeTomaso" <detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com on behalf of detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
I thought the newsletter was going to be online only (hence will be color for free) , while only the Profiles will on paper and mailed. No?
I don't see why anyone would not renew their membership-- with all the old publications online and an improved website the club has more to offer than ever.
Jim Oddie
On May 29, 2016, at 4:05 PM, marshallgsmith <[1]marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Now wait a minute Dick, what you write here is WAY too level-headed for this forum!
Who is this really??
All joking aside, I obtain multiple bids for every one of a 'number' of projects that I need to conduct every year. If I found a company that could save me $8,000 a year on a particular project, I would have felt like I won the lottery!
Sure, every once in a while the new company who submitted the lowest bid does not do as good of a job of the old one but when that happens, I go back to the next bid which sometimes was the same company I used previously and all is back to normal.
$8,000 a year is an awful lot of money just to stay with the company that you have and had comfort with.
The statement of adding color to the newsletter would of course cost a bit more money but when you consider that we would be saving $8,000 off the top, we have a touch more money to play with and the savings would still be very sizable.
Plus, if any car club newsletter in this country is worthy of several color pages, it absolutely would be Jack DeRyke's!! This club is and will be indebted to you forever Jack! Thanks for the wonderful work you do to keep our colorful jalopies on the road!!
Marshall
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message -------- From: Dick Koch <[2]redcatman74@gmail.com> Date: 05/29/2016 9:57 AM (GMT-08:00) To: Ed Mendez <[3]edducati@mac.com> Cc: [4]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and non-productive comments that have been made in recent weeks, many very personal and vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the club. It is good to have different points of view on club business. But to present one's point of view in a negative and personal manner, does nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and
persona in the eyes of others. From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many of the detractors do not have much experience in running a business. And make no mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To thrive, this club must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance it's value add to it's customers. As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the newsletter, for the board to not look for less expensive options, as with any other expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible. I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would have folks want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive and provides less for much more money. We have enough cronyism in our government. Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has been a reason for keeping a more expensive service that provides less. I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail the newsletter, that can be printed by anyone that is not to lazy to take 3 minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative. As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one person. Each person on the board has a say, with a majority required to decide on every issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just that,
On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez" <[5]edducati@mac.com> wrote: See below.
On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige <[6]rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote:
It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace
without notice.
False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning at 30 days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club, Ferrari club, Porsche club, they all have similar rules.
The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10 increased rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first place.
return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven. Simply, use the money to pay for our publication costs. False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority chapter
The presidents.
PROPOSED: $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund the $62.52 publication estimate per MS.
That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive quotes for printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that is $8000 per year cheaper than the one we are currently using.
Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year.
Carrying
853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year. Divide that into 100,000 means funding covers 46.5 YEARS. False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve in
bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in reserve. You can google there income statements.
OPINION:
I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4 vote but there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has proposed. Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing the actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions for
False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things we have coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in fact
very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best interest of the club
This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and should not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look bad. If you have an issue talk with someone about your concern, preferably your chapter president, they are your representative as in any organization. It's very easy to simply pick up the phone instead of using this email list as a podium for your disdain of MS. It's obvious, we get it. Please take it offline.
If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and many others before me, and run for office.
Kind regards
(Information taken from the Presidents Blog.) _______________________________________________
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They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and non-productive comments that have been made in recent weeks, many very
On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez" <[1][11]edducati@mac.com> wrote: See below. On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige <[2][12]rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote:
A It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace
A without notice. False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning at 30 days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club, Ferrari club, Porsche club, they all have similar rules.
A The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10 increased A rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first
A return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven.A Simply, use A the money to pay for our publication costs. False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority chapter presidents. A PROPOSED:A $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund
A publication estimate per MS. That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive quotes for printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that is $8000 per year cheaper than the one we are currently using.
A Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year.A Carrying A 853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year.A Divide that into 100,000 A means funding covers 46.5 YEARS. False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve in
A OPINION:
A I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4 vote but A there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has A proposed.A Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing
A actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions for False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things we have coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in fact there very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best interest of the club This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and should not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look bad. If you have an issue talk with someone about your concern,
A (Information taken from the Presidents Blog.) _______________________________________________
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Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member of the board to the other members of the board, showing how approving that item would benefit the club member's experience, with the underlying financial implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs long term financial health. Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a constructive manner, with negative comments of a personal nature irrelevant and therefore non-constructive. I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and to think they are doing their job for free. What a deal... By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their comments, take it out on me. I deserve it for letting 6831 sit idle with a blown header gasket for years. Peace, fellow "cat" owners. Dick Koch - Atlanta Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky enough to be on the sunny side of the grass. period the there list. list. personal and vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the club. It is good to have different points of view on club business. But to present one's point of view in a negative and personalA manner, does nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and their persona in the eyes of others. From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many of the detractors do not have much experience in running a business. And make no mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To thrive, this club must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance it's value add to it's customers. As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the newsletter, for the board to not look for less expensive options, as with any other expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible. I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would have folks want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive and provides less for much more money.A We have enough cronyism in our government. Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has been a reason for keeping a more expensive service that provides less. I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail the newsletter, that can be printed by anyoneA that is not to lazy to take 3 minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative. As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one person.A Each person on the board has a say, with a majority required to decide on every issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just that, pointless. Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member of the board to the other members of the board, showing how approving that item would benefit the club member's experience, with the underlying financial implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs long term financial health. Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a constructive manner, with negative comments of a personal nature irrelevant and therefore non-constructive. I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and to think they are doing their job for free. What a deal... By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their comments, take it out on me.A I deserve it for letting 6831 sit idle with a blown header gasket for years. Peace, fellow "cat" owners. Dick Koch - Atlanta Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky enough to be on the sunny side of the grass. period place.A The the $62.52 the bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in reserve. You can google there income statements. the preferably your chapter president, they are your representative as in any organization. It's very easy to simply pick up the phone instead of using this email list as a podium for your disdain of MS. It's obvious, we get it. Please take it offline. If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and many others before me, and run for office. Kind regards the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [5][15]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [6][16]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. [17]mailto:edducati@mac.com 2. [18]mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 3. [19]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 4. [20]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 5. [21]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 6. 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-----Original Message----- From: Effie Richards <erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com> To: marshallgsmith <marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net> Cc: detomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Sun, May 29, 2016 5:08 pm Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis Well said Marshall! Many Kudos to Jack DeRyke from me too! We love your work! Sent from Effie's iPad their pointless. list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [27]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [28]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
References
1. mailto:marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net 2. mailto:redcatman74@gmail.com 3. mailto:edducati@mac.com 4. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 5. mailto:edducati@mac.com 6. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 7. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 8. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 9. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 10. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 11. mailto:edducati@mac.com 12. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 13. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 14. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 15. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 16. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 17. mailto:edducati@mac.com? 18. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com? 19. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 20. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 21. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 22. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 23. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 24. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 25. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 26. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 27. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 28. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________
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Will, This is absolutely the best suggestion that I have heard yet. This way the Profiles would be better ,the newsletter would be better and it would save on printing and postage. And the people who still want a printed newsletter will get it! The first 2/3 of the publication could be Profiles articles and the last 1/3 could be the technical portion that it the current newsletter . Ron McCall ----- Original Message ----- From: "Will Kooiman" <will.kooiman@gmail.com> To: "Pantdino" <pantdino@aol.com>, erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com, marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net Cc: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2016 9:57:21 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis I don¹t think there¹s anyone in the club that thinks it¹s a bad idea to ³bid out² to find someone that will publish for cheaper. The issue is around the need to increase dues, while also switching to full color for the newsletter, especially when we also have a quarterly (sometimes) Profiles. If we need to cut costs, don¹t increase them by making the newsletter full color. It isn¹t needed. The best suggestion is to combine the newsletter and Profiles, and to switch to bi-monthly instead of quarterly. That cuts the mailings to 6 instead of 12, and the printings to 6 instead of 16. It also gives the appearance of a more cohesive club. Something like this was suggested a few years ago, and while it obviously died, I didn¹t hear any of the arguments for/against. On 5/29/16, 8:29 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Pantdino via DeTomaso" <detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com on behalf of detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
I thought the newsletter was going to be online only (hence will be color for free) , while only the Profiles will on paper and mailed. No?
I don't see why anyone would not renew their membership-- with all the old publications online and an improved website the club has more to offer than ever.
Jim Oddie
On May 29, 2016, at 4:05 PM, marshallgsmith <[1]marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Now wait a minute Dick, what you write here is WAY too level-headed for this forum!
Who is this really??
All joking aside, I obtain multiple bids for every one of a 'number' of projects that I need to conduct every year. If I found a company that could save me $8,000 a year on a particular project, I would have felt like I won the lottery!
Sure, every once in a while the new company who submitted the lowest bid does not do as good of a job of the old one but when that happens, I go back to the next bid which sometimes was the same company I used previously and all is back to normal.
$8,000 a year is an awful lot of money just to stay with the company that you have and had comfort with.
The statement of adding color to the newsletter would of course cost a bit more money but when you consider that we would be saving $8,000 off the top, we have a touch more money to play with and the savings would still be very sizable.
Plus, if any car club newsletter in this country is worthy of several color pages, it absolutely would be Jack DeRyke's!! This club is and will be indebted to you forever Jack! Thanks for the wonderful work you do to keep our colorful jalopies on the road!!
Marshall
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message -------- From: Dick Koch <[2]redcatman74@gmail.com> Date: 05/29/2016 9:57 AM (GMT-08:00) To: Ed Mendez <[3]edducati@mac.com> Cc: [4]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and non-productive comments that have been made in recent weeks, many very personal and vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the club. It is good to have different points of view on club business. But to present one's point of view in a negative and personal manner, does nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and
persona in the eyes of others. From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many of the detractors do not have much experience in running a business. And make no mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To thrive, this club must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance it's value add to it's customers. As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the newsletter, for the board to not look for less expensive options, as with any other expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible. I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would have folks want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive and provides less for much more money. We have enough cronyism in our government. Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has been a reason for keeping a more expensive service that provides less. I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail the newsletter, that can be printed by anyone that is not to lazy to take 3 minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative. As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one person. Each person on the board has a say, with a majority required to decide on every issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just that,
On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez" <[5]edducati@mac.com> wrote: See below.
On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige <[6]rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote:
It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace
without notice.
False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning at 30 days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club, Ferrari club, Porsche club, they all have similar rules.
The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10 increased rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first place.
return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven. Simply, use the money to pay for our publication costs. False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority chapter
The presidents.
PROPOSED: $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund the $62.52 publication estimate per MS.
That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive quotes for printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that is $8000 per year cheaper than the one we are currently using.
Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year.
Carrying
853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year. Divide that into 100,000 means funding covers 46.5 YEARS. False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve in
bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in reserve. You can google there income statements.
OPINION:
I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4 vote but there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has proposed. Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing the actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions for
False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things we have coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in fact
very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best interest of the club
This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and should not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look bad. If you have an issue talk with someone about your concern, preferably your chapter president, they are your representative as in any organization. It's very easy to simply pick up the phone instead of using this email list as a podium for your disdain of MS. It's obvious, we get it. Please take it offline.
If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and many others before me, and run for office.
Kind regards
(Information taken from the Presidents Blog.) _______________________________________________
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They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and non-productive comments that have been made in recent weeks, many very
On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez" <[1][11]edducati@mac.com> wrote: See below. On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige <[2][12]rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote:
A It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace
A without notice. False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning at 30 days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club, Ferrari club, Porsche club, they all have similar rules.
A The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10 increased A rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first
A return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven.A Simply, use A the money to pay for our publication costs. False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority chapter presidents. A PROPOSED:A $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund
A publication estimate per MS. That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive quotes for printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that is $8000 per year cheaper than the one we are currently using.
A Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year.A Carrying A 853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year.A Divide that into 100,000 A means funding covers 46.5 YEARS. False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve in
A OPINION:
A I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4 vote but A there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has A proposed.A Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing
A actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions for False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things we have coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in fact there very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best interest of the club This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and should not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look bad. If you have an issue talk with someone about your concern,
A (Information taken from the Presidents Blog.) _______________________________________________
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Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member of the board to the other members of the board, showing how approving that item would benefit the club member's experience, with the underlying financial implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs long term financial health. Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a constructive manner, with negative comments of a personal nature irrelevant and therefore non-constructive. I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and to think they are doing their job for free. What a deal... By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their comments, take it out on me. I deserve it for letting 6831 sit idle with a blown header gasket for years. Peace, fellow "cat" owners. Dick Koch - Atlanta Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky enough to be on the sunny side of the grass. period the there list. list. personal and vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the club. It is good to have different points of view on club business. But to present one's point of view in a negative and personalA manner, does nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and their persona in the eyes of others. From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many of the detractors do not have much experience in running a business. And make no mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To thrive, this club must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance it's value add to it's customers. As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the newsletter, for the board to not look for less expensive options, as with any other expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible. I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would have folks want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive and provides less for much more money.A We have enough cronyism in our government. Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has been a reason for keeping a more expensive service that provides less. I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail the newsletter, that can be printed by anyoneA that is not to lazy to take 3 minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative. As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one person.A Each person on the board has a say, with a majority required to decide on every issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just that, pointless. Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member of the board to the other members of the board, showing how approving that item would benefit the club member's experience, with the underlying financial implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs long term financial health. Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a constructive manner, with negative comments of a personal nature irrelevant and therefore non-constructive. I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and to think they are doing their job for free. What a deal... By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their comments, take it out on me.A I deserve it for letting 6831 sit idle with a blown header gasket for years. Peace, fellow "cat" owners. Dick Koch - Atlanta Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky enough to be on the sunny side of the grass. period place.A The the $62.52 the bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in reserve. You can google there income statements. the preferably your chapter president, they are your representative as in any organization. It's very easy to simply pick up the phone instead of using this email list as a podium for your disdain of MS. It's obvious, we get it. Please take it offline. If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and many others before me, and run for office. Kind regards the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [5][15]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [6][16]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. [17]mailto:edducati@mac.com 2. [18]mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 3. [19]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 4. [20]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 5. [21]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 6. [22]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [23]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [24]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________
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-----Original Message----- From: Effie Richards <erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com> To: marshallgsmith <marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net> Cc: detomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Sun, May 29, 2016 5:08 pm Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis Well said Marshall! Many Kudos to Jack DeRyke from me too! We love your work! Sent from Effie's iPad their pointless. list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [27]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [28]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
References
1. mailto:marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net 2. mailto:redcatman74@gmail.com 3. mailto:edducati@mac.com 4. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 5. mailto:edducati@mac.com 6. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 7. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 8. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 9. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 10. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 11. mailto:edducati@mac.com 12. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 13. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 14. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 15. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 16. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 17. mailto:edducati@mac.com? 18. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com? 19. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 20. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 21. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 22. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 23. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 24. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 25. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 26. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 27. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 28. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
On May 29, 2016, at 4:05 PM, marshallgsmith <[1]marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Now wait a minute Dick, what you write here is WAY too level-headed for this forum!
Who is this really??
All joking aside, I obtain multiple bids for every one of a 'number' of projects that I need to conduct every year. If I found a company that could save me $8,000 a year on a particular project, I would have felt like I won the lottery!
Sure, every once in a while the new company who submitted the lowest bid does not do as good of a job of the old one but when that happens, I go back to the next bid which sometimes was the same company I used previously and all is back to normal.
$8,000 a year is an awful lot of money just to stay with the company that you have and had comfort with.
The statement of adding color to the newsletter would of course cost a bit more money but when you consider that we would be saving $8,000 off the top, we have a touch more money to play with and the savings would still be very sizable.
Plus, if any car club newsletter in this country is worthy of several color pages, it absolutely would be Jack DeRyke's!! This club is and will be indebted to you forever Jack! Thanks for the wonderful work you do to keep our colorful jalopies on the road!!
Marshall
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message -------- From: Dick Koch <[2]redcatman74@gmail.com> Date: 05/29/2016 9:57 AM (GMT-08:00) To: Ed Mendez <[3]edducati@mac.com> Cc: [4]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and non-productive comments that have been made in recent weeks, many very personal and vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the club. It is good to have different points of view on club business. But to present one's point of view in a negative and personal manner, does nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and
persona in the eyes of others. From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many of the detractors do not have much experience in running a business. And make no mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To thrive, this club must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance it's value add to it's customers. As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the newsletter, for the board to not look for less expensive options, as with any other expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible. I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would have folks want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive and provides less for much more money. We have enough cronyism in our government. Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has been a reason for keeping a more expensive service that provides less. I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail the newsletter, that can be printed by anyone that is not to lazy to take 3 minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative. As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one person. Each person on the board has a say, with a majority required to decide on every issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just that,
On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez" <[5]edducati@mac.com> wrote: See below.
On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige <[6]rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote:
It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace
without notice.
False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning at 30 days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club, Ferrari club, Porsche club, they all have similar rules.
The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10 increased rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first place.
return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven. Simply, use the money to pay for our publication costs. False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority chapter
The presidents.
PROPOSED: $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund the $62.52 publication estimate per MS.
That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive quotes for printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that is $8000 per year cheaper than the one we are currently using.
Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year.
Carrying
853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year. Divide that into 100,000 means funding covers 46.5 YEARS. False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve in
bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in reserve. You can google there income statements.
OPINION:
I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4 vote but there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has proposed. Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing the actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions for
False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things we have coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in fact
very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best interest of the club
This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and should not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look bad. If you have an issue talk with someone about your concern, preferably your chapter president, they are your representative as in any organization. It's very easy to simply pick up the phone instead of using this email list as a podium for your disdain of MS. It's obvious, we get it. Please take it offline.
If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and many others before me, and run for office.
Kind regards
(Information taken from the Presidents Blog.) _______________________________________________
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They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and non-productive comments that have been made in recent weeks, many very
On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez" <[1][11]edducati@mac.com> wrote: See below. On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige <[2][12]rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote:
A It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace
A without notice. False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning at 30 days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club, Ferrari club, Porsche club, they all have similar rules.
A The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10 increased A rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first
A return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven.A Simply, use A the money to pay for our publication costs. False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority chapter presidents. A PROPOSED:A $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund
A publication estimate per MS. That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive quotes for printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that is $8000 per year cheaper than the one we are currently using.
A Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year.A Carrying A 853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year.A Divide that into 100,000 A means funding covers 46.5 YEARS. False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve in
A OPINION:
A I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4 vote but A there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has A proposed.A Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing
A actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions for False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things we have coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in fact there very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best interest of the club This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and should not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look bad. If you have an issue talk with someone about your concern,
A (Information taken from the Presidents Blog.) _______________________________________________
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Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member of the board to the other members of the board, showing how approving that item would benefit the club member's experience, with the underlying financial implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs long term financial health. Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a constructive manner, with negative comments of a personal nature irrelevant and therefore non-constructive. I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and to think they are doing their job for free. What a deal... By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their comments, take it out on me. I deserve it for letting 6831 sit idle with a blown header gasket for years. Peace, fellow "cat" owners. Dick Koch - Atlanta Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky enough to be on the sunny side of the grass. period the there list. list. personal and vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the club. It is good to have different points of view on club business. But to present one's point of view in a negative and personalA manner, does nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and their persona in the eyes of others. From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many of the detractors do not have much experience in running a business. And make no mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To thrive, this club must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance it's value add to it's customers. As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the newsletter, for the board to not look for less expensive options, as with any other expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible. I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would have folks want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive and provides less for much more money.A We have enough cronyism in our government. Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has been a reason for keeping a more expensive service that provides less. I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail the newsletter, that can be printed by anyoneA that is not to lazy to take 3 minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative. As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one person.A Each person on the board has a say, with a majority required to decide on every issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just that, pointless. Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member of the board to the other members of the board, showing how approving that item would benefit the club member's experience, with the underlying financial implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs long term financial health. Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a constructive manner, with negative comments of a personal nature irrelevant and therefore non-constructive. I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and to think they are doing their job for free. What a deal... By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their comments, take it out on me.A I deserve it for letting 6831 sit idle with a blown header gasket for years. Peace, fellow "cat" owners. Dick Koch - Atlanta Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky enough to be on the sunny side of the grass. period place.A The the $62.52 the bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in reserve. You can google there income statements. the preferably your chapter president, they are your representative as in any organization. It's very easy to simply pick up the phone instead of using this email list as a podium for your disdain of MS. It's obvious, we get it. Please take it offline. If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and many others before me, and run for office. Kind regards the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [5][15]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [6][16]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. [17]mailto:edducati@mac.com 2. [18]mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 3. [19]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 4. [20]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 5. [21]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 6. [22]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [23]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [24]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________
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On May 29, 2016, at 4:05 PM, marshallgsmith <[1][4]marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Now wait a minute Dick, what you write here is WAY too level-headed for this forum!
Who is this really??
All joking aside, I obtain multiple bids for every one of a 'number' of projects that I need to conduct every year. If I found a company that could save me $8,000 a year on a particular project, I would have felt like I won the lottery!
Sure, every once in a while the new company who submitted the lowest bid does not do as good of a job of the old one but when that happens, I go back to the next bid which sometimes was the same company I used previously and all is back to normal.
$8,000 a year is an awful lot of money just to stay with the company that you have and had comfort with.
The statement of adding color to the newsletter would of course cost a bit more money but when you consider that we would be saving $8,000 off the top, we have a touch more money to play with and the savings would still be very sizable.
Plus, if any car club newsletter in this country is worthy of several color pages, it absolutely would be Jack DeRyke's!! This club is and will be indebted to you forever Jack! Thanks for the wonderful work you do to keep our colorful jalopies on the road!!
Marshall
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message -------- From: Dick Koch <[2][5]redcatman74@gmail.com> Date: 05/29/2016 9:57 AM (GMT-08:00) To: Ed Mendez <[3][6]edducati@mac.com> Cc: [4][7]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and non-productive comments that have been made in recent weeks, many very personal and vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the club. It is good to have different points of view on club business. But to present one's point of view in a negative and personal manner, does nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and
persona in the eyes of others. From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many of the detractors do not have much experience in running a business. And make no mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To thrive, this club must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance it's value add to it's customers. As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the newsletter, for the board to not look for less expensive options, as with any other expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible. I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would have folks want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive and provides less for much more money. We have enough cronyism in our government. Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has been a reason for keeping a more expensive service that provides less. I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail the newsletter, that can be printed by anyone that is not to lazy to take 3 minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative. As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one person. Each person on the board has a say, with a majority required to decide on every issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just that,
On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez" <[5][8]edducati@mac.com> wrote: See below.
On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige <[6][9]rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote:
It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace
without notice.
False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning at 30 days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club, Ferrari club, Porsche club, they all have similar rules.
The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10 increased rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first place.
return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven. Simply, use the money to pay for our publication costs. False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority chapter
The presidents.
PROPOSED: $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund the $62.52 publication estimate per MS.
That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive quotes for printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that is $8000 per year cheaper than the one we are currently using.
Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year.
Carrying
853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year. Divide that into 100,000 means funding covers 46.5 YEARS. False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve in
bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in reserve. You can google there income statements.
OPINION:
I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4 vote but there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has proposed. Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing the actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions for
False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things we have coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in fact
very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best interest of the club
This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and should not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look bad. If you have an issue talk with someone about your concern, preferably your chapter president, they are your representative as in any organization. It's very easy to simply pick up the phone instead of using this email list as a podium for your disdain of MS. It's obvious, we get it. Please take it offline.
If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and many others before me, and run for office.
Kind regards
(Information taken from the Presidents Blog.) _______________________________________________
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They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [9][12]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [10][13]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and non-productive comments that have been made in recent weeks, many very
On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez" <[1][11][14]edducati@mac.com> wrote: See below. On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige <[2][12][15]rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote:
A It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace
A without notice. False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning at 30 days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club, Ferrari club, Porsche club, they all have similar rules.
A The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10 increased A rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first
A return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven.A Simply, use A the money to pay for our publication costs. False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority chapter presidents. A PROPOSED:A $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund
A publication estimate per MS. That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive quotes for printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that is $8000 per year cheaper than the one we are currently using.
A Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year.A Carrying A 853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year.A Divide that into 100,000 A means funding covers 46.5 YEARS. False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve in
A OPINION:
A I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4 vote but A there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has A proposed.A Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing
A actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions for False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things we have coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in fact there very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best interest of the club This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and should not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look bad. If you have an issue talk with someone about your concern,
A (Information taken from the Presidents Blog.) _______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [3][13][16]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [4][14][17]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member of the board to the other members of the board, showing how approving that item would benefit the club member's experience, with the underlying financial implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs long term financial health. Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a constructive manner, with negative comments of a personal nature irrelevant and therefore non-constructive. I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and to think they are doing their job for free. What a deal... By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their comments, take it out on me. I deserve it for letting 6831 sit idle with a blown header gasket for years. Peace, fellow "cat" owners. Dick Koch - Atlanta Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky enough to be on the sunny side of the grass. period the there list. list. personal and vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the club. It is good to have different points of view on club business. But to present one's point of view in a negative and personalA manner, does nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and their persona in the eyes of others. From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many of the detractors do not have much experience in running a business. And make no mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To thrive, this club must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance it's value add to it's customers. As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the newsletter, for the board to not look for less expensive options, as with any other expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible. I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would have folks want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive and provides less for much more money.A We have enough cronyism in our government. Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has been a reason for keeping a more expensive service that provides less. I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail the newsletter, that can be printed by anyoneA that is not to lazy to take 3 minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative. As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one person.A Each person on the board has a say, with a majority required to decide on every issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just that, pointless. Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member of the board to the other members of the board, showing how approving that item would benefit the club member's experience, with the underlying financial implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs long term financial health. Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a constructive manner, with negative comments of a personal nature irrelevant and therefore non-constructive. I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and to think they are doing their job for free. What a deal... By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their comments, take it out on me.A I deserve it for letting 6831 sit idle with a blown header gasket for years. Peace, fellow "cat" owners. Dick Koch - Atlanta Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky enough to be on the sunny side of the grass. period place.A The the $62.52 the bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in reserve. You can google there income statements. the preferably your chapter president, they are your representative as in any organization. It's very easy to simply pick up the phone instead of using this email list as a podium for your disdain of MS. It's obvious, we get it. Please take it offline. If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and many others before me, and run for office. Kind regards the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [5][15][18]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [6][16][19]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. [17][20]mailto:edducati@mac.com 2. [18][21]mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 3. [19][22]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 4. [20][23]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 5. [21][24]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 6. [22][25]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [23][26]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [24][27]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________
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You have to realize that not everyone has a computer and some that do absolutely do not want their Newsletter online. The Newsletter has been sent as a pdf to the Eruopeans and members in Canada for some time now but even there, a couple want paper copies and that should be their absolute right since that is the one thing that the club does for its members: the publications! At the Rally we heard from several who had various reasons for wanting printed publications only and it would be very wrong to deny that. Maybe those 'other' clubs might do that but that is a good reason to not belong to them. Judy -----Original Message----- From: Pantdino via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To: erichards <erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com>; marshallgsmith <marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net> Cc: detomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Sun, May 29, 2016 5:30 pm Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis I thought the newsletter was going to be online only (hence will be color for free) , while only the Profiles will on paper and mailed. No? I don't see why anyone would not renew their membership-- with all the old publications online and an improved website the club has more to offer than ever. Jim Oddie -----Original Message----- From: Effie Richards <erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com> To: marshallgsmith <marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net> Cc: detomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Sun, May 29, 2016 5:08 pm Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis Well said Marshall! Many Kudos to Jack DeRyke from me too! We love your work! Sent from Effie's iPad their pointless. list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [27]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [28]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net 2. mailto:redcatman74@gmail.com 3. mailto:edducati@mac.com 4. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 5. mailto:edducati@mac.com 6. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 7. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 8. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 9. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 10. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 11. mailto:edducati@mac.com 12. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 13. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 14. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 15. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 16. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 17. mailto:edducati@mac.com? 18. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com? 19. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 20. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 21. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 22. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 23. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 24. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 25. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 26. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 27. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 28. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. You have to realize that not everyone has a computer and some that do absolutely do not want their Newsletter online. The Newsletter has been sent as a pdf to the Eruopeans and members in Canada for some time now but even there, a couple want paper copies and that should be their absolute right since that is the one thing that the club does for its members: the publications! At the Rally we heard from several who had various reasons for wanting printed publications only and it would be very wrong to deny that. Maybe those 'other' clubs might do that but that is a good reason to not belong to them. Judy -----Original Message----- From: Pantdino via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To: erichards <erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com>; marshallgsmith <marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net> Cc: detomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Sun, May 29, 2016 5:30 pm Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis I thought the newsletter was going to be online only (hence will be color for free) , while only the Profiles will on paper and mailed. No? I don't see why anyone would not renew their membership-- with all the old publications online and an improved website the club has more to offer than ever. Jim Oddie -----Original Message----- From: Effie Richards <[1]erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com> To: marshallgsmith <[2]marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net> Cc: detomaso <[3]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Sun, May 29, 2016 5:08 pm Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis Well said Marshall! Many Kudos to Jack DeRyke from me too! We love your work! Sent from Effie's iPad their pointless. list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [27][30]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [28][31]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. [32]mailto:marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net 2. [33]mailto:redcatman74@gmail.com 3. [34]mailto:edducati@mac.com 4. [35]mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 5. [36]mailto:edducati@mac.com 6. [37]mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 7. [38]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 8. [39]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 9. [40]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 10. [41]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 11. [42]mailto:edducati@mac.com 12. [43]mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 13. [44]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 14. [45]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 15. [46]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 16. [47]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 17. [48]mailto:edducati@mac.com? 18. [49]mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com? 19. [50]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 20. [51]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 21. [52]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 22. [53]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 23. [54]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 24. [55]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 25. [56]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 26. [57]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 27. [58]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 28. [59]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [60]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [61]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com 2. mailto:marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net 3. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 4. mailto:marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net 5. mailto:redcatman74@gmail.com 6. mailto:edducati@mac.com 7. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 8. mailto:edducati@mac.com 9. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 10. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 11. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 12. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 13. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 14. mailto:edducati@mac.com 15. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 16. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 17. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 18. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 19. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 20. mailto:edducati@mac.com? 21. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com? 22. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 23. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 24. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 25. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 26. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 27. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 28. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 29. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 30. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 31. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 32. mailto:marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net? 33. mailto:redcatman74@gmail.com? 34. mailto:edducati@mac.com? 35. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 36. mailto:edducati@mac.com? 37. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com? 38. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 39. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 40. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 41. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 42. mailto:edducati@mac.com? 43. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com? 44. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 45. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 46. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 47. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 48. mailto:edducati@mac.com? 49. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com? 50. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 51. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 52. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 53. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 54. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 55. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 56. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 57. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 58. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 59. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 60. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 61. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
My husband, for one, does not "do" computer, which is why I become his voice! I would of course print for him, but what about when I'm not around any longer? Things happen... Sent from Effie's iPad
On May 29, 2016, at 7:19 PM, fastgrandma <fastgrandma@aol.com> wrote:
You have to realize that not everyone has a computer and some that do absolutely do not want their Newsletter online. The Newsletter has been sent as a pdf to the Eruopeans and members in Canada for some time now but even there, a couple want paper copies and that should be their absolute right since that is the one thing that the club does for its members: the publications!
At the Rally we heard from several who had various reasons for wanting printed publications only and it would be very wrong to deny that. Maybe those 'other' clubs might do that but that is a good reason to not belong to them.
Judy
-----Original Message----- From: Pantdino via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To: erichards <erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com>; marshallgsmith <marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net> Cc: detomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Sun, May 29, 2016 5:30 pm Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis
I thought the newsletter was going to be online only (hence will be color for free) , while only the Profiles will on paper and mailed. No?
I don't see why anyone would not renew their membership-- with all the old publications online and an improved website the club has more to offer than ever.
Jim Oddie
On May 29, 2016, at 4:05 PM, marshallgsmith <[1]marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Now wait a minute Dick, what you write here is WAY too level-headed for this forum!
Who is this really??
All joking aside, I obtain multiple bids for every one of a 'number' of projects that I need to conduct every year. If I found a company that could save me $8,000 a year on a particular project, I would have felt like I won the lottery!
Sure, every once in a while the new company who submitted the lowest bid does not do as good of a job of the old one but when that happens, I go back to the next bid which sometimes was the same company I used previously and all is back to normal.
$8,000 a year is an awful lot of money just to stay with the company that you have and had comfort with.
The statement of adding color to the newsletter would of course cost a bit more money but when you consider that we would be saving $8,000 off the top, we have a touch more money to play with and the savings would still be very sizable.
Plus, if any car club newsletter in this country is worthy of several color pages, it absolutely would be Jack DeRyke's!! This club is and will be indebted to you forever Jack! Thanks for the wonderful work you do to keep our colorful jalopies on the road!!
Marshall
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message -------- From: Dick Koch <[2]redcatman74@gmail.com> Date: 05/29/2016 9:57 AM (GMT-08:00) To: Ed Mendez <[3]edducati@mac.com> Cc: [4]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and non-productive comments that have been made in recent weeks, many very personal and vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the club. It is good to have different points of view on club business. But to present one's point of view in a negative and personal manner, does nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and
persona in the eyes of others. From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many of the detractors do not have much experience in running a business. And make no mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To thrive, this club must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance it's value add to it's customers. As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the newsletter, for the board to not look for less expensive options, as with any other expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible. I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would have folks want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive and provides less for much more money. We have enough cronyism in our government. Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has been a reason for keeping a more expensive service that provides less. I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail the newsletter, that can be printed by anyone that is not to lazy to take 3 minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative. As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one person. Each person on the board has a say, with a majority required to decide on every issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just that,
On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez" <[5]edducati@mac.com> wrote: See below.
On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige <[6]rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote:
It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace
without notice.
False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning at 30 days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club, Ferrari club, Porsche club, they all have similar rules.
The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10 increased rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first place.
return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven. Simply, use the money to pay for our publication costs. False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority chapter
The presidents.
PROPOSED: $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund the $62.52 publication estimate per MS.
That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive quotes for printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that is $8000 per year cheaper than the one we are currently using.
Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year.
Carrying
853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year. Divide that into 100,000 means funding covers 46.5 YEARS. False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve in
bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in reserve. You can google there income statements.
OPINION:
I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4 vote but there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has proposed. Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing the actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions for
False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things we have coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in fact
very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best interest of the club
This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and should not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look bad. If you have an issue talk with someone about your concern, preferably your chapter president, they are your representative as in any organization. It's very easy to simply pick up the phone instead of using this email list as a podium for your disdain of MS. It's obvious, we get it. Please take it offline.
If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and many others before me, and run for office.
Kind regards
(Information taken from the Presidents Blog.) _______________________________________________
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They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and non-productive comments that have been made in recent weeks, many very
On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez" <[1][11]edducati@mac.com> wrote: See below. On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige <[2][12]rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote:
A It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace
A without notice. False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning at 30 days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club, Ferrari club, Porsche club, they all have similar rules.
A The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10 increased A rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first
A return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven.A Simply, use A the money to pay for our publication costs. False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority chapter presidents. A PROPOSED:A $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund
A publication estimate per MS. That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive quotes for printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that is $8000 per year cheaper than the one we are currently using.
A Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year.A Carrying A 853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year.A Divide that into 100,000 A means funding covers 46.5 YEARS. False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve in
A OPINION:
A I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4 vote but A there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has A proposed.A Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing
A actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions for False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things we have coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in fact there very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best interest of the club This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and should not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look bad. If you have an issue talk with someone about your concern,
A (Information taken from the Presidents Blog.) _______________________________________________
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Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member of the board to the other members of the board, showing how approving that item would benefit the club member's experience, with the underlying financial implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs long term financial health. Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a constructive manner, with negative comments of a personal nature irrelevant and therefore non-constructive. I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and to think they are doing their job for free. What a deal... By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their comments, take it out on me. I deserve it for letting 6831 sit idle with a blown header gasket for years. Peace, fellow "cat" owners. Dick Koch - Atlanta Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky enough to be on the sunny side of the grass. period the there list. list. personal and vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the club. It is good to have different points of view on club business. But to present one's point of view in a negative and personalA manner, does nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and their persona in the eyes of others. From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many of the detractors do not have much experience in running a business. And make no mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To thrive, this club must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance it's value add to it's customers. As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the newsletter, for the board to not look for less expensive options, as with any other expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible. I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would have folks want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive and provides less for much more money.A We have enough cronyism in our government. Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has been a reason for keeping a more expensive service that provides less. I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail the newsletter, that can be printed by anyoneA that is not to lazy to take 3 minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative. As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one person.A Each person on the board has a say, with a majority required to decide on every issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just that, pointless. Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member of the board to the other members of the board, showing how approving that item would benefit the club member's experience, with the underlying financial implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs long term financial health. Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a constructive manner, with negative comments of a personal nature irrelevant and therefore non-constructive. I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and to think they are doing their job for free. What a deal... By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their comments, take it out on me.A I deserve it for letting 6831 sit idle with a blown header gasket for years. Peace, fellow "cat" owners. Dick Koch - Atlanta Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky enough to be on the sunny side of the grass. period place.A The the $62.52 the bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in reserve. You can google there income statements. the preferably your chapter president, they are your representative as in any organization. It's very easy to simply pick up the phone instead of using this email list as a podium for your disdain of MS. It's obvious, we get it. Please take it offline. If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and many others before me, and run for office. Kind regards the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [5][15]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [6][16]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. [17]mailto:edducati@mac.com 2. [18]mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 3. [19]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 4. [20]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 5. [21]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 6. [22]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [23]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [24]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________
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-----Original Message----- From: Effie Richards <erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com> To: marshallgsmith <marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net> Cc: detomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Sun, May 29, 2016 5:08 pm Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis Well said Marshall! Many Kudos to Jack DeRyke from me too! We love your work! Sent from Effie's iPad their pointless. list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [27]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [28]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
References
1. mailto:marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net 2. mailto:redcatman74@gmail.com 3. mailto:edducati@mac.com 4. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 5. mailto:edducati@mac.com 6. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 7. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 8. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 9. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 10. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 11. mailto:edducati@mac.com 12. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 13. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 14. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 15. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 16. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 17. mailto:edducati@mac.com? 18. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com? 19. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 20. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 21. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 22. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 23. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 24. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 25. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 26. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 27. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 28. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________
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On May 29, 2016, at 4:05 PM, marshallgsmith <[1][9]marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Now wait a minute Dick, what you write here is WAY too level-headed for this forum!
Who is this really??
All joking aside, I obtain multiple bids for every one of a 'number' of projects that I need to conduct every year. If I found a company that could save me $8,000 a year on a particular project, I would have felt like I won the lottery!
Sure, every once in a while the new company who submitted the lowest bid does not do as good of a job of the old one but when that happens, I go back to the next bid which sometimes was the same company I used previously and all is back to normal.
$8,000 a year is an awful lot of money just to stay with the company that you have and had comfort with.
The statement of adding color to the newsletter would of course cost a bit more money but when you consider that we would be saving $8,000 off the top, we have a touch more money to play with and the savings would still be very sizable.
Plus, if any car club newsletter in this country is worthy of several color pages, it absolutely would be Jack DeRyke's!! This club is and will be indebted to you forever Jack! Thanks for the wonderful work you do to keep our colorful jalopies on the road!!
Marshall
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message -------- From: Dick Koch <[2][10]redcatman74@gmail.com> Date: 05/29/2016 9:57 AM (GMT-08:00) To: Ed Mendez <[3][11]edducati@mac.com> Cc: [4][12]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and non-productive comments that have been made in recent weeks, many very personal and vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the club. It is good to have different points of view on club business. But to present one's point of view in a negative and personal manner, does nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and
persona in the eyes of others. From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many of the detractors do not have much experience in running a business. And make no mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To thrive, this club must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance it's value add to it's customers. As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the newsletter, for the board to not look for less expensive options, as with any other expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible. I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would have folks want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive and provides less for much more money. We have enough cronyism in our government. Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has been a reason for keeping a more expensive service that provides less. I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail the newsletter, that can be printed by anyone that is not to lazy to take 3 minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative. As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one person. Each person on the board has a say, with a majority required to decide on every issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just that,
On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez" <[5][13]edducati@mac.com> wrote: See below.
On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige <[6][14]rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote:
It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace
without notice.
False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning at 30 days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club, Ferrari club, Porsche club, they all have similar rules.
The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10 increased rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first place.
return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven. Simply, use the money to pay for our publication costs. False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority chapter
The presidents.
PROPOSED: $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund the $62.52 publication estimate per MS.
That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive quotes for printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that is $8000 per year cheaper than the one we are currently using.
Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year.
Carrying
853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year. Divide that into 100,000 means funding covers 46.5 YEARS. False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve in
bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in reserve. You can google there income statements.
OPINION:
I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4 vote but there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has proposed. Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing the actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions for
False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things we have coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in fact
very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best interest of the club
This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and should not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look bad. If you have an issue talk with someone about your concern, preferably your chapter president, they are your representative as in any organization. It's very easy to simply pick up the phone instead of using this email list as a podium for your disdain of MS. It's obvious, we get it. Please take it offline.
If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and many others before me, and run for office.
Kind regards
(Information taken from the Presidents Blog.) _______________________________________________
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They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and non-productive comments that have been made in recent weeks, many very
On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez" <[1][11][19]edducati@mac.com> wrote: See below. On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige <[2][12][20]rkunishige@hotmail.com> wrote:
A It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace
A without notice. False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning at 30 days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club, Ferrari club, Porsche club, they all have similar rules.
A The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10 increased A rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first
A return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven.A Simply, use A the money to pay for our publication costs. False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority chapter presidents. A PROPOSED:A $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund
A publication estimate per MS. That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive quotes for printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that is $8000 per year cheaper than the one we are currently using.
A Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year.A Carrying A 853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year.A Divide that into 100,000 A means funding covers 46.5 YEARS. False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve in
A OPINION:
A I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4 vote but A there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has A proposed.A Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing
A actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions for False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things we have coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in fact there very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best interest of the club This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and should not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look bad. If you have an issue talk with someone about your concern,
A (Information taken from the Presidents Blog.) _______________________________________________
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Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member of the board to the other members of the board, showing how approving that item would benefit the club member's experience, with the underlying financial implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs long term financial health. Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a constructive manner, with negative comments of a personal nature irrelevant and therefore non-constructive. I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and to think they are doing their job for free. What a deal... By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their comments, take it out on me. I deserve it for letting 6831 sit idle with a blown header gasket for years. Peace, fellow "cat" owners. Dick Koch - Atlanta Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky enough to be on the sunny side of the grass. period the there list. list. personal and vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the club. It is good to have different points of view on club business. But to present one's point of view in a negative and personalA manner, does nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and their persona in the eyes of others. From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many of the detractors do not have much experience in running a business. And make no mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To thrive, this club must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance it's value add to it's customers. As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the newsletter, for the board to not look for less expensive options, as with any other expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible. I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would have folks want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive and provides less for much more money.A We have enough cronyism in our government. Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has been a reason for keeping a more expensive service that provides less. I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail the newsletter, that can be printed by anyoneA that is not to lazy to take 3 minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative. As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one person.A Each person on the board has a say, with a majority required to decide on every issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just that, pointless. Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member of the board to the other members of the board, showing how approving that item would benefit the club member's experience, with the underlying financial implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs long term financial health. Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a constructive manner, with negative comments of a personal nature irrelevant and therefore non-constructive. I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and to think they are doing their job for free. What a deal... By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their comments, take it out on me.A I deserve it for letting 6831 sit idle with a blown header gasket for years. Peace, fellow "cat" owners. Dick Koch - Atlanta Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky enough to be on the sunny side of the grass. period place.A The the $62.52 the bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in reserve. You can google there income statements. the preferably your chapter president, they are your representative as in any organization. It's very easy to simply pick up the phone instead of using this email list as a podium for your disdain of MS. It's obvious, we get it. Please take it offline. If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and many others before me, and run for office. Kind regards the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [5][15][23]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [6][16][24]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. [17][25]mailto:edducati@mac.com 2. [18][26]mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 3. [19][27]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 4. [20][28]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 5. [21][29]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 6. [22][30]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [23][31]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [24][32]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________
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My husband, for one, does not "do" computer, which is why I become his voice! I would of course print for him, but what about when I'm not around any longer? Things happen... Sent from Effie's iPad On May 29, 2016, at 7:19 PM, fastgrandma <[1]fastgrandma@aol.com> wrote: You have to realize that not everyone has a computer and some that do absolutely do not want their Newsletter online. The Newsletter has been sent as a pdf to the Eruopeans and members in Canada for some time now but even there, a couple want paper copies and that should be their absolute right since that is the one thing that the club does for its members: the publications! At the Rally we heard from several who had various reasons for wanting printed publications only and it would be very wrong to deny that. Maybe those 'other' clubs might do that but that is a good reason to not belong to them. Judy -----Original Message----- From: Pantdino via DeTomaso <[2]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To: erichards <[3]erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com>; marshallgsmith <[4]marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net> Cc: detomaso <[5]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Sun, May 29, 2016 5:30 pm Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis I thought the newsletter was going to be online only (hence will be color for free) , while only the Profiles will on paper and mailed. No? I don't see why anyone would not renew their membership-- with all the old publications online and an improved website the club has more to offer than ever. Jim Oddie -----Original Message----- From: Effie Richards <[6]erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com> To: marshallgsmith <[7]marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net> Cc: detomaso <[8]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Sun, May 29, 2016 5:08 pm Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis Well said Marshall! Many Kudos to Jack DeRyke from me too! We love your work! Sent from Effie's iPad their pointless. list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [27][35]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [28][36]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. [37]mailto:marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net 2. [38]mailto:redcatman74@gmail.com 3. [39]mailto:edducati@mac.com 4. [40]mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 5. [41]mailto:edducati@mac.com 6. [42]mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 7. [43]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 8. [44]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 9. [45]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 10. [46]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 11. [47]mailto:edducati@mac.com 12. [48]mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 13. [49]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 14. [50]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 15. [51]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 16. [52]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 17. [53]mailto:edducati@mac.com? 18. [54]mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com? 19. [55]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 20. [56]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 21. [57]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 22. [58]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 23. [59]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 24. [60]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 25. [61]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 26. [62]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 27. [63]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 28. [64]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [65]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [66]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:fastgrandma@aol.com 2. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 3. mailto:erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com 4. mailto:marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net 5. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 6. mailto:erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com 7. mailto:marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net 8. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 9. mailto:marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net 10. mailto:redcatman74@gmail.com 11. mailto:edducati@mac.com 12. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 13. mailto:edducati@mac.com 14. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 15. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 16. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 17. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 18. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 19. mailto:edducati@mac.com 20. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 21. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 22. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 23. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 24. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 25. mailto:edducati@mac.com? 26. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com? 27. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 28. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 29. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 30. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 31. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 32. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 33. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 34. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 35. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 36. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 37. mailto:marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net? 38. mailto:redcatman74@gmail.com? 39. mailto:edducati@mac.com? 40. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 41. mailto:edducati@mac.com? 42. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com? 43. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 44. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 45. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 46. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 47. mailto:edducati@mac.com? 48. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com? 49. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 50. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 51. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 52. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 53. mailto:edducati@mac.com? 54. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com? 55. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 56. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 57. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 58. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 59. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 60. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 61. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 62. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 63. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 64. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 65. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 66. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
On May 29, 2016, at 4:05 PM, marshallgsmith <[1]marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net<mailto:marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net>> wrote:
Now wait a minute Dick, what you write here is WAY too level-headed for this forum!
Who is this really??
All joking aside, I obtain multiple bids for every one of a 'number' of projects that I need to conduct every year. If I found a company that could save me $8,000 a year on a particular project, I would have felt like I won the lottery!
Sure, every once in a while the new company who submitted the lowest bid does not do as good of a job of the old one but when that happens, I go back to the next bid which sometimes was the same company I used previously and all is back to normal.
$8,000 a year is an awful lot of money just to stay with the company that you have and had comfort with.
The statement of adding color to the newsletter would of course cost a bit more money but when you consider that we would be saving $8,000 off the top, we have a touch more money to play with and the savings would still be very sizable.
Plus, if any car club newsletter in this country is worthy of several color pages, it absolutely would be Jack DeRyke's!! This club is and will be indebted to you forever Jack! Thanks for the wonderful work you do to keep our colorful jalopies on the road!!
Marshall
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message -------- From: Dick Koch <[2]redcatman74@gmail.com<mailto:redcatman74@gmail.com>> Date: 05/29/2016 9:57 AM (GMT-08:00) To: Ed Mendez <[3]edducati@mac.com<mailto:edducati@mac.com>> Cc: [4]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and non-productive comments that have been made in recent weeks, many very personal and vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the club. It is good to have different points of view on club business. But to present one's point of view in a negative and personal manner, does nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and
persona in the eyes of others. From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many of the detractors do not have much experience in running a business. And make no mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To thrive, this club must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance it's value add to it's customers. As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the newsletter, for the board to not look for less expensive options, as with any other expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible. I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would have folks want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive and provides less for much more money. We have enough cronyism in our government. Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has been a reason for keeping a more expensive service that provides less. I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail the newsletter, that can be printed by anyone that is not to lazy to take 3 minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative. As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one person. Each person on the board has a say, with a majority required to decide on every issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just that,
On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez" <[5]edducati@mac.com<mailto:edducati@mac.com>> wrote: See below.
On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige <[6]rkunishige@hotmail.com<mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com>> wrote:
It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace
without notice.
False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning at 30 days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club, Ferrari club, Porsche club, they all have similar rules.
The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10 increased rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first place.
return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven. Simply, use the money to pay for our publication costs. False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority chapter
The presidents.
PROPOSED: $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund the $62.52 publication estimate per MS.
That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive quotes for printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that is $8000 per year cheaper than the one we are currently using.
Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year.
Carrying
853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year. Divide that into 100,000 means funding covers 46.5 YEARS. False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve in
bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in reserve. You can google there income statements.
OPINION:
I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4 vote but there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has proposed. Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing the actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions for
False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things we have coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in fact
very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best interest of the club
This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and should not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look bad. If you have an issue talk with someone about your concern, preferably your chapter president, they are your representative as in any organization. It's very easy to simply pick up the phone instead of using this email list as a podium for your disdain of MS. It's obvious, we get it. Please take it offline.
If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and many others before me, and run for office.
Kind regards
(Information taken from the Presidents Blog.) _______________________________________________
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They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and non-productive comments that have been made in recent weeks, many very
On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez" <[1][11]edducati@mac.com<mailto:edducati@mac.com>> wrote: See below. On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige <[2][12]rkunishige@hotmail.com<mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com>> wrote:
A It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace
A without notice. False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning at 30 days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club, Ferrari club, Porsche club, they all have similar rules.
A The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10 increased A rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first
A return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven.A Simply, use A the money to pay for our publication costs. False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority chapter presidents. A PROPOSED:A $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund
A publication estimate per MS. That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive quotes for printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that is $8000 per year cheaper than the one we are currently using.
A Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year.A Carrying A 853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year.A Divide that into 100,000 A means funding covers 46.5 YEARS. False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve in
A OPINION:
A I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4 vote but A there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has A proposed.A Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing
A actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions for False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things we have coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in fact there very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best interest of the club This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and should not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look bad. If you have an issue talk with someone about your concern,
A (Information taken from the Presidents Blog.) _______________________________________________
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Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member of the board to the other members of the board, showing how approving that item would benefit the club member's experience, with the underlying financial implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs long term financial health. Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a constructive manner, with negative comments of a personal nature irrelevant and therefore non-constructive. I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and to think they are doing their job for free. What a deal... By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their comments, take it out on me. I deserve it for letting 6831 sit idle with a blown header gasket for years. Peace, fellow "cat" owners. Dick Koch - Atlanta Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky enough to be on the sunny side of the grass. period the there list. list. personal and vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the club. It is good to have different points of view on club business. But to present one's point of view in a negative and personalA manner, does nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and their persona in the eyes of others. From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many of the detractors do not have much experience in running a business. And make no mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To thrive, this club must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance it's value add to it's customers. As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the newsletter, for the board to not look for less expensive options, as with any other expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible. I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would have folks want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive and provides less for much more money.A We have enough cronyism in our government. Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has been a reason for keeping a more expensive service that provides less. I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail the newsletter, that can be printed by anyoneA that is not to lazy to take 3 minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative. As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one person.A Each person on the board has a say, with a majority required to decide on every issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just that, pointless. Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member of the board to the other members of the board, showing how approving that item would benefit the club member's experience, with the underlying financial implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs long term financial health. Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a constructive manner, with negative comments of a personal nature irrelevant and therefore non-constructive. I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and to think they are doing their job for free. What a deal... By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their comments, take it out on me.A I deserve it for letting 6831 sit idle with a blown header gasket for years. Peace, fellow "cat" owners. Dick Koch - Atlanta Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky enough to be on the sunny side of the grass. period place.A The the $62.52 the bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in reserve. You can google there income statements. the preferably your chapter president, they are your representative as in any organization. It's very easy to simply pick up the phone instead of using this email list as a podium for your disdain of MS. It's obvious, we get it. Please take it offline. If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and many others before me, and run for office. Kind regards the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [5][15]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com> [6][16]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. [17]mailto:edducati@mac.com 2. [18]mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 3. [19]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 4. [20]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 5. [21]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 6. 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A It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace > period >> A without notice. > False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning > at > 30 days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club, > Ferrari club, Porsche club, they all have similar rules. >> >> A The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10 > increased >> A rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first > place.A The >> A return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven.A > Simply, use >> A the money to pay for our publication costs. > False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority > chapter presidents. >> A PROPOSED:A $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund > the > $62.52 >> A publication estimate per MS. > That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive > quotes for printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that > is $8000 per year cheaper than the one we are currently using. >> >> A Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year.A > Carrying >> A 853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year.A Divide that into > 100,000 >> A means funding covers 46.5 YEARS. > False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve > in > the bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in > reserve. You can google there income statements. >> A OPINION: >> >> A I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4 > vote but >> A there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has >> A proposed.A Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing > the >> A actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions > for > False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things > we > have coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in > fact there very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best > interest of the club > This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and > should not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look > bad. If you have an issue talk with someone about your concern, > preferably your chapter president, they are your representative as > in any organization. It's very easy to simply pick up the phone > instead of using this email list as a podium for your disdain of > MS. > It's obvious, we get it. Please take it offline. > If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and > many others before me, and run for office. > Kind regards >> A (Information taken from the Presidents Blog.) >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA >> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes >> DeTomaso mailing list >> [3][13][31]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com >> [4][14][32]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >> >> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, > etc.) use the links above. >> >> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to > forward > any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of > the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an > archive or approve the archiving of list messages. > _______________________________________________ > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > [5][15][33]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > [6][16][34]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, > etc.) use the links above. > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward > any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of > the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an > archive or approve the archiving of list messages. > References > 1. [17][35]mailto:edducati@mac.com > 2. [18][36]mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com > 3. [19][37]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > 4. [20][38]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > 5. [21][39]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > 6. [22][40]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > _______________________________________________ > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > [23][41]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > [24][42]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) > use the links above. > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any > message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the > list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive > or approve the archiving of list messages. > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > [25][43]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > [26][44]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
There is an easy solution. The "POCA member record" database can keep your choice, Paper or PDF. Not sure "why" there is even a debate. "A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan, stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!" Terry W. Himes JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory Dawn Spacecraft Team Rosetta Sequence Team Lead Phone: (818) 393-6261 Cell: (818) 653-8213 Fax: (818) 393-3147 thimes@jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:thimes@jpl.nasa.gov> 🇺🇸 From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com>> on behalf of fastgrandma via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>> Reply-To: fastgrandma <fastgrandma@aol.com<mailto:fastgrandma@aol.com>> Date: Sunday, May 29, 2016 7:19 PM To: "pantdino@aol.com<mailto:pantdino@aol.com>" <pantdino@aol.com<mailto:pantdino@aol.com>>, "erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com<mailto:erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com>" <erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com<mailto:erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com>>, Marshall Smith <marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net<mailto:marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net>> Cc: "detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis You have to realize that not everyone has a computer and some that do absolutely do not want their Newsletter online. The Newsletter has been sent as a pdf to the Eruopeans and members in Canada for some time now but even there, a couple want paper copies and that should be their absolute right since that is the one thing that the club does for its members: the publications! At the Rally we heard from several who had various reasons for wanting printed publications only and it would be very wrong to deny that. Maybe those 'other' clubs might do that but that is a good reason to not belong to them. Judy -----Original Message----- From: Pantdino via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>> To: erichards <erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com<mailto:erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com>>; marshallgsmith <marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net<mailto:marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net>> Cc: detomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>> Sent: Sun, May 29, 2016 5:30 pm Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis I thought the newsletter was going to be online only (hence will be color for free) , while only the Profiles will on paper and mailed. No? I don't see why anyone would not renew their membership-- with all the old publications online and an improved website the club has more to offer than ever. Jim Oddie -----Original Message----- From: Effie Richards <erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com<mailto:erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com>> To: marshallgsmith <marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net<mailto:marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net>> Cc: detomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>> Sent: Sun, May 29, 2016 5:08 pm Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis Well said Marshall! Many Kudos to Jack DeRyke from me too! We love your work! Sent from Effie's iPad their pointless. list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [27]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com> [28]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net 2. mailto:redcatman74@gmail.com 3. mailto:edducati@mac.com 4. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 5. mailto:edducati@mac.com 6. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 7. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 8. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 9. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 10. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 11. mailto:edducati@mac.com 12. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 13. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 14. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 15. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 16. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 17. mailto:edducati@mac.com? 18. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com? 19. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 20. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 21. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 22. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 23. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 24. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 25. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 26. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 27. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 28. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. There is an easy solution. The "POCA member record" database can keep your choice, Paper or PDF. Not sure "why" there is even a debate. "A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan, stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!" Terry W. Himes JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory Dawn Spacecraft Team Rosetta Sequence Team Lead Phone: (818) 393-6261 Cell: (818) 653-8213 Fax: (818) 393-3147 [1]thimes@jpl.nasa.gov From: DeTomaso <[2]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of fastgrandma via DeTomaso <[3]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Reply-To: fastgrandma <[4]fastgrandma@aol.com> Date: Sunday, May 29, 2016 7:19 PM To: "[5]pantdino@aol.com" <[6]pantdino@aol.com>, "[7]erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com" <[8]erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com>, Marshall Smith <[9]marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net> Cc: "[10]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com" <[11]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis You have to realize that not everyone has a computer and some that do absolutely do not want their Newsletter online. The Newsletter has been sent as a pdf to the Eruopeans and members in Canada for some time now but even there, a couple want paper copies and that should be their absolute right since that is the one thing that the club does for its members: the publications! At the Rally we heard from several who had various reasons for wanting printed publications only and it would be very wrong to deny that. Maybe those 'other' clubs might do that but that is a good reason to not belong to them. Judy -----Original Message----- From: Pantdino via DeTomaso <[12]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To: erichards <[13]erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com>; marshallgsmith <[14]marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net> Cc: detomaso <[15]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Sun, May 29, 2016 5:30 pm Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis I thought the newsletter was going to be online only (hence will be color for free) , while only the Profiles will on paper and mailed. No? I don't see why anyone would not renew their membership-- with all the old publications online and an improved website the club has more to offer than ever. Jim Oddie -----Original Message----- From: Effie Richards <[16]erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com> To: marshallgsmith <[17]marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net> Cc: detomaso <[18]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Sun, May 29, 2016 5:08 pm Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis Well said Marshall! Many Kudos to Jack DeRyke from me too! We love your work! Sent from Effie's iPad > On May 29, 2016, at 4:05 PM, marshallgsmith <[1][19]marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > > Now wait a minute Dick, what you write here is WAY too level-headed for > this forum! > > Who is this really?? > > All joking aside, I obtain multiple bids for every one of a 'number' of > projects that I need to conduct every year. If I found a company that > could save me $8,000 a year on a particular project, I would have felt > like I won the lottery! > > Sure, every once in a while the new company who submitted the lowest > bid does not do as good of a job of the old one but when that happens, > I go back to the next bid which sometimes was the same company I used > previously and all is back to normal. > > $8,000 a year is an awful lot of money just to stay with the company > that you have and had comfort with. > > The statement of adding color to the newsletter would of course cost a > bit more money but when you consider that we would be saving $8,000 off > the top, we have a touch more money to play with and the savings would > still be very sizable. > > Plus, if any car club newsletter in this country is worthy of several > color pages, it absolutely would be Jack DeRyke's!! This club is and > will be indebted to you forever Jack! Thanks for the wonderful work you > do to keep our colorful jalopies on the road!! > > Marshall > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Dick Koch <[2][20]redcatman74@gmail.com> > Date: 05/29/2016 9:57 AM (GMT-08:00) > To: Ed Mendez <[3][21]edducati@mac.com> > Cc: [4][22]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis > Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and > non-productive > comments that have been made in recent weeks, many very personal and > vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the club. > It is good to have different points of view on club business. But to > present one's point of view in a negative and personal manner, does > nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and their > persona in the eyes of others. > From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many of > the > detractors do not have much experience in running a business. And make > no > mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To thrive, this > club > must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance it's value add > to > it's customers. > As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the > newsletter, > for the board to not look for less expensive options, as with any other > expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible. > I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would have > folks > want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive and > provides > less for much more money. We have enough cronyism in our government. > Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has been a reason for > keeping a more expensive service that provides less. > I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail the > newsletter, that can be printed by anyone that is not to lazy to take > 3 > minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative. > As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one person. > Each > person on the board has a say, with a majority required to decide on > every > issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just that, pointless. > Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member of > the > board to the other members of the board, showing how approving that > item > would benefit the club member's experience, with the underlying > financial > implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs long term > financial > health. > Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a > constructive > manner, with negative comments of a personal nature irrelevant and > therefore non-constructive. > I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and to > think > they are doing their job for free. What a deal... > By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their > comments, > take it out on me. I deserve it for letting 6831 sit idle with a blown > header gasket for years. > Peace, fellow "cat" owners. > Dick Koch - Atlanta > Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky > enough > to be on the sunny side of the grass. >> On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez" <[5][23]edducati@mac.com> wrote: >> See below. >> >>> On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige <[6][24]rkunishige@hotmail.com> > wrote: >>> >>> It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace > period >>> without notice. >> >> False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning at > 30 >> days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club, Ferrari > club, >> Porsche club, they all have similar rules. >>> >>> The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10 increased >>> rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first place. > The >>> return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven. Simply, > use >>> the money to pay for our publication costs. >> False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority > chapter >> presidents. >> >>> PROPOSED: $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund the > $62.52 >>> publication estimate per MS. >> >> That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive quotes > for >> printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that is $8000 per > year >> cheaper than the one we are currently using. >>> >>> Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year. > Carrying >>> 853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year. Divide that into > 100,000 >>> means funding covers 46.5 YEARS. >> False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve in > the >> bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in reserve. > You >> can google there income statements. >> >> >>> OPINION: >>> >>> I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4 vote > but >>> there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has >>> proposed. Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing the >>> actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions for >> >> False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things we > have >> coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in fact > there >> very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best interest of the > club >> >> This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and > should >> not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look bad. If you > have >> an issue talk with someone about your concern, preferably your > chapter >> president, they are your representative as in any organization. It's > very >> easy to simply pick up the phone instead of using this email list as > a >> podium for your disdain of MS. It's obvious, we get it. Please take > it >> offline. >> >> If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and > many >> others before me, and run for office. >> >> Kind regards >> >>> (Information taken from the Presidents Blog.) >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> >>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA >>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes >>> DeTomaso mailing list >>> [7][25]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com >>> [8][26]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >>> >>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, > etc.) >> use the links above. >>> >>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward > any >> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the > list. >> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or > approve >> the archiving of list messages. >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA >> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes >> DeTomaso mailing list >> [9][27]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com >> [10][28]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >> >> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) > use >> the links above. >> >> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward > any >> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the > list. >> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or > approve >> the archiving of list messages. > Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and > non-productive comments that have been made in recent weeks, many > very > personal and vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the club. > It is good to have different points of view on club business. But to > present one's point of view in a negative and personalA manner, > does > nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and > their > persona in the eyes of others. > From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many > of > the detractors do not have much experience in running a business. > And > make no mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To > thrive, > this club must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance > it's > value add to it's customers. > As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the > newsletter, for the board to not look for less expensive options, as > with any other expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible. > I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would have > folks want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive > and > provides less for much more money.A We have enough cronyism in our > government. Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has been > a > reason for keeping a more expensive service that provides less. > I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail the > newsletter, that can be printed by anyoneA that is not to lazy to > take > 3 minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative. > As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one person.A > Each person on the board has a say, with a majority required to > decide > on every issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just > that, > pointless. > Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member of > the board to the other members of the board, showing how approving > that > item would benefit the club member's experience, with the underlying > financial implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs long > term financial health. > Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a > constructive manner, with negative comments of a personal nature > irrelevant and therefore non-constructive. > I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and to > think they are doing their job for free. What a deal... > By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their > comments, take it out on me.A I deserve it for letting 6831 sit > idle > with a blown header gasket for years. > Peace, fellow "cat" owners. > Dick Koch - Atlanta > Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky > enough to be on the sunny side of the grass. >> On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez" <[1][11][29]edducati@mac.com> wrote: >> See below. >> On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige > <[2][12][30]rkunishige@hotmail.com> > wrote: >> the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [27][45]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [28][46]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. [47]mailto:marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net 2. [48]mailto:redcatman74@gmail.com 3. [49]mailto:edducati@mac.com 4. [50]mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 5. [51]mailto:edducati@mac.com 6. [52]mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 7. [53]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 8. [54]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 9. [55]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 10. [56]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 11. [57]mailto:edducati@mac.com 12. [58]mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 13. [59]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 14. [60]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 15. [61]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 16. [62]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 17. [63]mailto:edducati@mac.com? 18. [64]mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com? 19. [65]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 20. [66]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 21. [67]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 22. [68]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 23. [69]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 24. [70]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 25. [71]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 26. [72]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 27. [73]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 28. [74]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [75]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [76]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:thimes@jpl.nasa.gov 2. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 3. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 4. mailto:fastgrandma@aol.com 5. mailto:pantdino@aol.com 6. mailto:pantdino@aol.com 7. mailto:erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com 8. mailto:erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com 9. mailto:marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net 10. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 11. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 12. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 13. mailto:erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com 14. mailto:marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net 15. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 16. mailto:erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com 17. mailto:marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net 18. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 19. mailto:marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net 20. mailto:redcatman74@gmail.com 21. mailto:edducati@mac.com 22. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 23. mailto:edducati@mac.com 24. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 25. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 26. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 27. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 28. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 29. mailto:edducati@mac.com 30. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 31. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 32. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 33. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 34. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 35. mailto:edducati@mac.com 36. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 37. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 38. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 39. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 40. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 41. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 42. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 43. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 44. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 45. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 46. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 47. mailto:marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net 48. mailto:redcatman74@gmail.com 49. mailto:edducati@mac.com 50. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 51. mailto:edducati@mac.com 52. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 53. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 54. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 55. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 56. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 57. mailto:edducati@mac.com 58. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 59. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 60. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 61. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 62. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 63. mailto:edducati@mac.com 64. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 65. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 66. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 67. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 68. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 69. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 70. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 71. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 72. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 73. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 74. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 75. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 76. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
On Sun, May 29, 2016 at 9:19 PM, fastgrandma via DeTomaso < detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote: You have to realize that not everyone has a computer and some that do
absolutely do not *want* their Newsletter online. The Newsletter has been sent as a pdf to the Eruopeans and members in Canada for some time now but even there, a couple want paper copies and that should be their *absolute right* since that is the one thing that the club does for its members: the publications!
This was one of my pet peeves when I was on the Board. We had the ability to do the Newsletter electronically but it was continually blocked. I agree some people want a hard copy. Want and need are two different issues, and there are absolutely no absolute rights to anything. There should be a a dues reduction for those that do not want or need a hard copy of the Newsletter. Otherwise, we are subsidizing those that get a hardcopy. Profiles is a different issue. IMHO, it is appropriate for that to be printed and mailed. It's a good idea to find cheaper ways to print and deliver it, however. Cheaper paper stock and a new printer would be high on my list of suggestions. I've posted previously about our experience with the Houston Fun Rally where our cost to produce the 16 page color event profile was about 50% less than the regular POCA printer. That should have been a wake-up call to the Board back then but the suggestion to to look for a more cost-effective printer was ignored. Jeff 6559 On Sun, May 29, 2016 at 9:19 PM, fastgrandma via DeTomaso <[1]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote: A You have to realize that not everyone has a computer and some that do A A absolutely do not want their Newsletter online. The Newsletter has been A A sent as a pdf to the Eruopeans and members in Canada for some time now A A but even there, a couple want paper copies and that should be their A A absolute right since that is the one thing that the club does for its A A members: the publications! This was one of my pet peeves when I was on the Board. We had the ability to do the Newsletter electronically but it was continually blocked. I agree some people want a hard copy. Want and need are two different issues, and there are absolutely no absolute rights to anything. There should be a a dues reduction for those that do not want or need a hard copy of the Newsletter. Otherwise, we are subsidizing those that get a hardcopy. Profiles is a different issue. IMHO, it is appropriate for that to be printed and mailed. It's a good idea to find cheaper ways to print and deliver it, however. Cheaper paper stock and a new printer would be high on my list of suggestions. I've posted previously about our experience with the Houston Fun Rally where our cost to produce the 16 page color event profile was about 50% less than the regular POCA printer. That should have been a wake-up call to the Board back then but the suggestion to to look for a more cost-effective printer was ignored. Jeff 6559 References 1. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
I don't want to offend anyone, but not having a computer (or access to one, perhaps at the local library) at this point in history is like not having a telephone. I'm 62 and use the computer all day at work and every evening at home, so it's not an age thing. I have been to small towns all around the US that have internet access in their town library. Jim Oddie -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Detrich <jjdetrich@gmail.com> Cc: detomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Sun, Jun 26, 2016 10:33 am Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis On Sun, May 29, 2016 at 9:19 PM, fastgrandma via DeTomaso <[1]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote: A You have to realize that not everyone has a computer and some that do A A absolutely do not want their Newsletter online. The Newsletter has been A A sent as a pdf to the Eruopeans and members in Canada for some time now A A but even there, a couple want paper copies and that should be their A A absolute right since that is the one thing that the club does for its A A members: the publications! This was one of my pet peeves when I was on the Board. We had the ability to do the Newsletter electronically but it was continually blocked. I agree some people want a hard copy. Want and need are two different issues, and there are absolutely no absolute rights to anything. There should be a a dues reduction for those that do not want or need a hard copy of the Newsletter. Otherwise, we are subsidizing those that get a hardcopy. Profiles is a different issue. IMHO, it is appropriate for that to be printed and mailed. It's a good idea to find cheaper ways to print and deliver it, however. Cheaper paper stock and a new printer would be high on my list of suggestions. I've posted previously about our experience with the Houston Fun Rally where our cost to produce the 16 page color event profile was about 50% less than the regular POCA printer. That should have been a wake-up call to the Board back then but the suggestion to to look for a more cost-effective printer was ignored. Jeff 6559 References 1. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. I don't want to offend anyone, but not having a computer (or access to one, perhaps at the local library) at this point in history is like not having a telephone. I'm 62 and use the computer all day at work and every evening at home, so it's not an age thing. I have been to small towns all around the US that have internet access in their town library. Jim Oddie -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Detrich <jjdetrich@gmail.com> Cc: detomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Sun, Jun 26, 2016 10:33 am Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis On Sun, May 29, 2016 at 9:19 PM, fastgrandma via DeTomaso <[1][1]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote: A You have to realize that not everyone has a computer and some that do A A absolutely do not want their Newsletter online. The Newsletter has been A A sent as a pdf to the Eruopeans and members in Canada for some time now A A but even there, a couple want paper copies and that should be their A A absolute right since that is the one thing that the club does for its A A members: the publications! This was one of my pet peeves when I was on the Board. We had the ability to do the Newsletter electronically but it was continually blocked. I agree some people want a hard copy. Want and need are two different issues, and there are absolutely no absolute rights to anything. There should be a a dues reduction for those that do not want or need a hard copy of the Newsletter. Otherwise, we are subsidizing those that get a hardcopy. Profiles is a different issue. IMHO, it is appropriate for that to be printed and mailed. It's a good idea to find cheaper ways to print and deliver it, however. Cheaper paper stock and a new printer would be high on my list of suggestions. I've posted previously about our experience with the Houston Fun Rally where our cost to produce the 16 page color event profile was about 50% less than the regular POCA printer. That should have been a wake-up call to the Board back then but the suggestion to to look for a more cost-effective printer was ignored. Jeff 6559 References 1. [2]mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [3]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [4]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 2. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 3. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 4. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
True, but I use a computer all day at work. The last thing I want to do is to read a magazine on a computer. Yes, I can, but I prefer printed. On 6/26/16, 1:50 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Pantdino via DeTomaso" <detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com on behalf of detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
I don't want to offend anyone, but not having a computer (or access to one, perhaps at the local library) at this point in history is like not having a telephone. I'm 62 and use the computer all day at work and every evening at home, so it's not an age thing.
I have been to small towns all around the US that have internet access in their town library.
Jim Oddie
-----Original Message----- From: Jeff Detrich <jjdetrich@gmail.com> Cc: detomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Sun, Jun 26, 2016 10:33 am Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis On Sun, May 29, 2016 at 9:19 PM, fastgrandma via DeTomaso <[1][1]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote: A You have to realize that not everyone has a computer and some that do A A absolutely do not want their Newsletter online. The Newsletter has been A A sent as a pdf to the Eruopeans and members in Canada for some time now A A but even there, a couple want paper copies and that should be their A A absolute right since that is the one thing that the club does for its A A members: the publications! This was one of my pet peeves when I was on the Board. We had the ability to do the Newsletter electronically but it was continually blocked. I agree some people want a hard copy. Want and need are two different issues, and there are absolutely no absolute rights to anything. There should be a a dues reduction for those that do not want or need a hard copy of the Newsletter. Otherwise, we are subsidizing those that get a hardcopy. Profiles is a different issue. IMHO, it is appropriate for that to be printed and mailed. It's a good idea to find cheaper ways to print and deliver it, however. Cheaper paper stock and a new printer would be high on my list of suggestions. I've posted previously about our experience with the Houston Fun Rally where our cost to produce the 16 page color event profile was about 50% less than the regular POCA printer. That should have been a wake-up call to the Board back then but the suggestion to to look for a more cost-effective printer was ignored. Jeff 6559 References 1. [2]mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [3]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [4]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
References
1. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 2. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 3. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 4. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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I don't want to offend anyone, but not having a computer (or access to one, perhaps at the local library) at this point in history is like not having a telephone. I'm 62 and use the computer all day at work and every evening at home, so it's not an age thing.
I have been to small towns all around the US that have internet access in their town library.
Jim Oddie
-----Original Message----- From: Jeff Detrich <[4]jjdetrich@gmail.com> Cc: detomaso <[5]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Sun, Jun 26, 2016 10:33 am Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis On Sun, May 29, 2016 at 9:19 PM, fastgrandma via DeTomaso <[1][1][6]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote: A You have to realize that not everyone has a computer and some that do A A absolutely do not want their Newsletter online. The Newsletter has been A A sent as a pdf to the Eruopeans and members in Canada for some time now A A but even there, a couple want paper copies and that should be their A A absolute right since that is the one thing that the club does for its A A members: the publications! This was one of my pet peeves when I was on the Board. We had the ability to do the Newsletter electronically but it was continually blocked. I agree some people want a hard copy. Want and need are two different issues, and there are absolutely no absolute rights to anything. There should be a a dues reduction for those that do not want or need a hard copy of the Newsletter. Otherwise, we are subsidizing those that get a hardcopy. Profiles is a different issue. IMHO, it is appropriate for that to be printed and mailed. It's a good idea to find cheaper ways to print and deliver it, however. Cheaper paper stock and a new printer would be high on my list of suggestions. I've posted previously about our experience with the Houston Fun Rally where our cost to produce the 16 page color event profile was about 50% less than the regular POCA printer. That should have been a wake-up call to the Board back then but the suggestion to to look for a more cost-effective printer was ignored. Jeff 6559 References 1. [2]mailto:[7]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [3][8]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [4][9]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
References
1. mailto:[10]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 2. mailto:[11]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 3. mailto:[12]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 4. [13]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________
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A pdf file can be printed at home, or taken to a local shop like Kinko's or other if you really want to. My opinion. Sent using Zoho Mail ---- On Sun, 26 Jun 2016 15:30:56 -0700 Will Kooiman <will.kooiman@gmail.com>wrote ---- True, but I use a computer all day at work. The last thing I want to do is to read a magazine on a computer. Yes, I can, but I prefer printed. On 6/26/16, 1:50 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Pantdino via DeTomaso" <detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com on behalf of detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote: > I don't want to offend anyone, but not having a computer (or access to > one, perhaps at the local library) at this point in history is like not > having a telephone. I'm 62 and use the computer all day at work and > every evening at home, so it's not an age thing. > > > > I have been to small towns all around the US that have internet access > in their town library. > > > > Jim Oddie > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeff Detrich <jjdetrich@gmail.com> > Cc: detomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> > Sent: Sun, Jun 26, 2016 10:33 am > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis > On Sun, May 29, 2016 at 9:19 PM, fastgrandma via DeTomaso > <[1][1]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote: > A You have to realize that not everyone has a computer and some that do > A A absolutely do not want their Newsletter online. The Newsletter has > been > A A sent as a pdf to the Eruopeans and members in Canada for some time > now > A A but even there, a couple want paper copies and that should be > their > A A absolute right since that is the one thing that the club does for > its > A A members: the publications! > This was one of my pet peeves when I was on the Board. We had the > ability to do the Newsletter electronically but it was continually > blocked. I agree some people want a hard copy. Want and need are two > different issues, and there are absolutely no absolute rights to > anything. There should be a a dues reduction for those that do not want > or need a hard copy of the Newsletter. Otherwise, we are subsidizing > those that get a hardcopy. > Profiles is a different issue. IMHO, it is appropriate for that to be > printed and mailed. It's a good idea to find cheaper ways to print and > deliver it, however. Cheaper paper stock and a new printer would be > high on my list of suggestions. I've posted previously about our > experience with the Houston Fun Rally where our cost to produce the 16 > page color event profile was about 50% less than the regular POCA > printer. That should have been a wake-up call to the Board back then > but the suggestion to to look for a more cost-effective printer was > ignored. > Jeff > 6559 > References > 1. [2]mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com > _______________________________________________ > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > [3]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > [4]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) > use the links above. > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any > message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the > list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive > or approve the archiving of list messages. > >References > > 1. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com > 2. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com? > 3. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > 4. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >_______________________________________________ > > >Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA >Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes >DeTomaso mailing list >DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com >http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > >To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use >the links above. > >Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any >message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. >They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or >approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. A pdf file can be printed at home, or taken to a local shop like Kinko's or other if you really want to. My opinion. Sent using [1]Zoho Mail ---- On Sun, 26 Jun 2016 15:30:56 -0700 Will Kooiman <will.kooiman@gmail.com>wrote ---- True, but I use a computer all day at work. The last thing I want to do is to read a magazine on a computer. Yes, I can, but I prefer printed. On 6/26/16, 1:50 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Pantdino via DeTomaso" <[2]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com on behalf of [3]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote: list.
They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [16]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [17]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. https://www.zoho.com/mail/ 2. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 3. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 4. mailto:jjdetrich@gmail.com 5. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 6. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 7. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 8. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 9. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 10. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 11. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 12. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 13. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 14. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 15. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 16. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 17. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
participants (9)
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Effie Richards -
fastgrandma -
Himes, Terry (397C) -
Jeff Detrich -
John Bennett -
marshallgsmith -
Pantdino -
rfmccall＠comcast.net -
Will Kooiman