Clutch Pedal Reduction Kit with Diaphragm Pressure Plate?
Ken I have a Centerforce Pantera diaphragm clutch. I have the effort reduction kit and the Long throw slave in stainless steel. The pedal effort is still pretty fierce. I would say maybe 40-50 lbs to depress. I'm thinking of going back to the stock slave cylinder which will reduce pedal effort at the expense of less friction plate clearance when depressed. I seem to have an abundance of that. Barry ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------- Given the mechanical characteristics of a diaphragm pressure plate, does it make any sense to use a clutch pedal kit with one? My recollection is that the clutch pedal kit provides more leverage when the pedal is fully depressed, but a diaphragm pressure plate does that anyway? Ken
Barry, Something often overlooked is the potential for friction caused by failure of the bearings that support the 'clutch fork' that presses on the throw out bearing. I know of one car that had very high pedal effort and investigation revealed that those two bearings were seriously rusted. When you disconnect the slave cylinder from the lever, the lever (and connected shaft) should be free to move very easily. Mike Sent from my iPhone On Jun 2, 2016, at 12:32, "B. SEIB" <oldwheel@shaw.ca> wrote:
Ken
I have a Centerforce Pantera diaphragm clutch. I have the effort reduction kit and the Long throw slave in stainless steel. The pedal effort is still pretty fierce. I would say maybe 40-50 lbs to depress. I'm thinking of going back to the stock slave cylinder which will reduce pedal effort at the expense of less friction plate clearance when depressed. I seem to have an abundance of that.
Barry
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Given the mechanical characteristics of a diaphragm pressure plate, does it make any sense to use a clutch pedal kit with one? My recollection is that the clutch pedal kit provides more leverage when the pedal is fully depressed, but a diaphragm pressure plate does that anyway? Ken
Thanks Mike I have been through all of that 600 miles ago. It's all new and/or well lubed. Carefully assembled. I think the long throw slave adds effort. Barry -----Original Message----- From: Mike Drew [mailto:MikeLDrew@aol.com] Sent: June-02-16 12:40 PM To: B. SEIB Cc: Ken Green; <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>; <davel@emspace.com>; <byrdjf@embarqmail.com>; <will.kooiman@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Clutch Pedal Reduction Kit with Diaphragm Pressure Plate? Barry, Something often overlooked is the potential for friction caused by failure of the bearings that support the 'clutch fork' that presses on the throw out bearing. I know of one car that had very high pedal effort and investigation revealed that those two bearings were seriously rusted. When you disconnect the slave cylinder from the lever, the lever (and connected shaft) should be free to move very easily. Mike Sent from my iPhone On Jun 2, 2016, at 12:32, "B. SEIB" <oldwheel@shaw.ca> wrote:
Ken
I have a Centerforce Pantera diaphragm clutch. I have the effort reduction kit and the Long throw slave in stainless steel. The pedal effort is still pretty fierce. I would say maybe 40-50 lbs to depress. I'm thinking of going back to the stock slave cylinder which will reduce pedal effort at the expense of less friction plate clearance when depressed. I seem to have an abundance of that.
Barry
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Given the mechanical characteristics of a diaphragm pressure plate, does it make any sense to use a clutch pedal kit with one? My recollection is that the clutch pedal kit provides more leverage when the pedal is fully depressed, but a diaphragm pressure plate does that anyway? Ken
I'll assume the long throw slave is a reduce bore to the original 1". The mechanical ratio of the MC to SC force and displacement would be the inverse ratio of hydraulic bores. The original would be ((0.75/2)^2/(1.0/2)^2)^-1 = 1.78:1 I don't know the bore of the long throw, but for aurgument assuming 3/4"; ((0.75/2)^2/(0.75/2)^2)^-1 = 1:1 Thus the effort to push the clutch would increase 1.8 times -----Original Message----- From: B. SEIB [mailto:oldwheel@shaw.ca] Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2016 13:49 PM To: 'Mike Drew' Cc: 'Ken Green'; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com; davel@emspace.com; byrdjf@embarqmail.com; will.kooiman@gmail.com Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Clutch Pedal Reduction Kit with Diaphragm Pressure Plate? Thanks Mike I have been through all of that 600 miles ago. It's all new and/or well lubed. Carefully assembled. I think the long throw slave adds effort. Barry -----Original Message----- From: Mike Drew [mailto:MikeLDrew@aol.com] Sent: June-02-16 12:40 PM To: B. SEIB Cc: Ken Green; <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>; <davel@emspace.com>; <byrdjf@embarqmail.com>; <will.kooiman@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Clutch Pedal Reduction Kit with Diaphragm Pressure Plate? Barry, Something often overlooked is the potential for friction caused by failure of the bearings that support the 'clutch fork' that presses on the throw out bearing. I know of one car that had very high pedal effort and investigation revealed that those two bearings were seriously rusted. When you disconnect the slave cylinder from the lever, the lever (and connected shaft) should be free to move very easily. Mike Sent from my iPhone On Jun 2, 2016, at 12:32, "B. SEIB" <oldwheel@shaw.ca> wrote:
Ken
I have a Centerforce Pantera diaphragm clutch. I have the effort reduction kit and the Long throw slave in stainless steel. The pedal effort is still pretty fierce. I would say maybe 40-50 lbs to depress. I'm thinking of going back to the stock slave cylinder which will reduce pedal effort at the expense of less friction plate clearance when depressed. I seem to have an abundance of that.
Barry
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Given the mechanical characteristics of a diaphragm pressure plate, does it make any sense to use a clutch pedal kit with one? My recollection is that the clutch pedal kit provides more leverage when the pedal is fully depressed, but a diaphragm pressure plate does that anyway? Ken
Thanks Barry, I'll have to take the long throw slave into consideration. I haven't gone to one YET. What I was originally trying to get at is that nothing is free, and assuming the same amount of master cylinder stroke, the reduction kit can only redistribute the work from the end of the stroke to the start of the stroke. If the pressure plate follows a simple F=KX relationship between force and disengagement, it makes sense to transfer some of the effort from the end of the stroke to the beginning. But I don't think a diaphragm pressure plate is very linear, so the force near the end of the stroke does not follow a F=KX relationship. Additionally, I think the more your leg is extended, the easier it is to apply force. Maybe do more squats? Ken From: B. SEIB <oldwheel@shaw.ca> To: 'Ken Green' <kenn_green@yahoo.com>; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com; davel@emspace.com; byrdjf@embarqmail.com; will.kooiman@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, June 2, 2016 10:32 AM Subject: [DeTomaso] Clutch Pedal Reduction Kit with Diaphragm Pressure Plate? Ken I have a Centerforce Pantera diaphragm clutch. I have the effort reduction kit and the Long throw slave in stainless steel. The pedal effort is still pretty fierce. I would say maybe 40-50 lbs to depress. I'm thinking of going back to the stock slave cylinder which will reduce pedal effort at the expense of less friction plate clearance when depressed. I seem to have an abundance of that. Barry ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------- Given the mechanical characteristics of a diaphragm pressure plate, does it make any sense to use a clutch pedal kit with one? My recollection is that the clutch pedal kit provides more leverage when the pedal is fully depressed, but a diaphragm pressure plate does that anyway? Ken Thanks Barry, I'll have to take the long throw slave into consideration. I haven't gone to one YET. What I was originally trying to get at is that nothing is free, and assuming the same amount of master cylinder stroke, the reduction kit can only redistribute the work from the end of the stroke to the start of the stroke. If the pressure plate follows a simple F=KX relationship between force and disengagement, it makes sense to transfer some of the effort from the end of the stroke to the beginning. But I don't think a diaphragm pressure plate is very linear, so the force near the end of the stroke does not follow a F=KX relationship. Additionally, I think the more your leg is extended, the easier it is to apply force. Maybe do more squats? Ken __________________________________________________________________ From: B. SEIB <oldwheel@shaw.ca> To: 'Ken Green' <kenn_green@yahoo.com>; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com; davel@emspace.com; byrdjf@embarqmail.com; will.kooiman@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, June 2, 2016 10:32 AM Subject: [DeTomaso] Clutch Pedal Reduction Kit with Diaphragm Pressure Plate? Ken I have a Centerforce Pantera diaphragm clutch. I have the effort reduction kit and the Long throw slave in stainless steel. The pedal effort is still pretty fierce. I would say maybe 40-50 lbs to depress. I'm thinking of going back to the stock slave cylinder which will reduce pedal effort at the expense of less friction plate clearance when depressed. I seem to have an abundance of that. Barry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ------------------------------------- Given the mechanical characteristics of a diaphragm pressure plate, does it make any sense to use a clutch pedal kit with one? My recollection is that the clutch pedal kit provides more leverage when the pedal is fully depressed, but a diaphragm pressure plate does that anyway? Ken
participants (4)
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B. SEIB -
Joseph F. Byrd, Jr. -
Ken Green -
Mike Drew