Re: Flywheel material and tooth count?
On Dec 19, 2024, at 18:53, Julian Kift <julian_kift@hotmail.com> wrote:
164 tooth and personally I'd go with a billet steel flywheel for a street performance engine
Julian __________________________________________________________________
From: Dan <dan@excaliburre.com> Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2024 3:44 PM To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: [DeTomaso] Flywheel material and tooth count?
Does anyone know what tooth count for the flywheel? And what is better for a performance street Pantera, steel or aluminum?
Thanks, Dan _______________________________________________
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Mike, When I built the engine for 5165 (which now resides in the Jacksonville Sports Car Museum - https://www.jaxsportscarmuseum.com/gallery-1), I wanted it to rev as quickly as possible. Accordingly, I made sure the entire reciprocating assembly was as light at possible. I used a lightweight crank damper, lightened pistons and rods, gun-drilled crank throws, 157 tooth aluminum flywheel and a diaphragm pressure plate with an aluminum friction ring. The engine was internally balanced and had a solid roller cam, T&D shaft rockers, etc. It revved so fast it was difficult to keep off the rev limiter. I had none of the "buck and snort" you mentioned, when driving at low speed. I could easily drive at 2 mph in a parade or in stop and go traffic. Driving on and off a trailer was easy too. In fact, at parking lot speeds, it wasn't much different than when it was stock. This leads me to believe that the "buck and snort" you're describing is a tuning issue that is masked by a heavy flywheel. My 2 cents! Dave ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------- Dan, I was convinced to go for a Fidanza aluminum flywheel, and I think it's too light for the street. Yes, it makes the engine rev faster which is entertaining. But it, coupled with a fairly aggressive cam, makes the car buck and snort when trying to inch along at very low speed. I have to use the clutch and rev the engine far more than one might expect-almost like a smaller-displacement Ferrari. Lori's engine has a stock flywheel and has pleasingly truck-like characteristics at walking pace. An intermediate-weight flywheel would probably be the best bet. Mike Sent from my iPad the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
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On Dec 19, 2024, at 18:53, Julian Kift <julian_kift@hotmail.com> wrote:
164 tooth and personally I'd go with a billet steel flywheel for a street performance engine
Julian __________________________________________________________________
From: Dan <dan@excaliburre.com> Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2024 3:44 PM To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: [DeTomaso] Flywheel material and tooth count?
Does anyone know what tooth count for the flywheel? And what is better for a performance street Pantera, steel or aluminum?
Thanks, Dan _______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list -- detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To unsubscribe send an email to detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com
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I wonder if EFI makes solves the "buck and snort"? I suspect big carbs and big cams don't meter or distribute fuel real well at low RPM, especially with a single plane intake manifold. On Tuesday, December 24, 2024 at 08:27:47 AM PST, <dnunn@telus.net> wrote: Mike, When I built the engine for 5165 (which now resides in the Jacksonville Sports Car Museum - https://www.jaxsportscarmuseum.com/gallery-1), I wanted it to rev as quickly as possible. Accordingly, I made sure the entire reciprocating assembly was as light at possible. I used a lightweight crank damper, lightened pistons and rods, gun-drilled crank throws, 157 tooth aluminum flywheel and a diaphragm pressure plate with an aluminum friction ring. The engine was internally balanced and had a solid roller cam, T&D shaft rockers, etc. It revved so fast it was difficult to keep off the rev limiter. I had none of the "buck and snort" you mentioned, when driving at low speed. I could easily drive at 2 mph in a parade or in stop and go traffic. Driving on and off a trailer was easy too. In fact, at parking lot speeds, it wasn't much different than when it was stock. This leads me to believe that the "buck and snort" you're describing is a tuning issue that is masked by a heavy flywheel. My 2 cents! Dave ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------- Dan, I was convinced to go for a Fidanza aluminum flywheel, and I think it's too light for the street. Yes, it makes the engine rev faster which is entertaining. But it, coupled with a fairly aggressive cam, makes the car buck and snort when trying to inch along at very low speed. I have to use the clutch and rev the engine far more than one might expect-almost like a smaller-displacement Ferrari. Lori's engine has a stock flywheel and has pleasingly truck-like characteristics at walking pace. An intermediate-weight flywheel would probably be the best bet. Mike Sent from my iPad the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
On Dec 19, 2024, at 18:53, Julian Kift <[1]julian_kift@hotmail.com> wrote:
164 tooth and personally I'd go with a billet steel flywheel for a street performance engine
Julian __________________________________________________________________
From: Dan <[2]dan@excaliburre.com> Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2024 3:44 PM To: [3]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <[4]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: [DeTomaso] Flywheel material and tooth count?
Does anyone know what tooth count for the flywheel? And what is better for a performance street Pantera, steel or aluminum?
Thanks, Dan _______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list -- [5]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To unsubscribe send an email to [6]detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. -----Original Message----- From: detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com <detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2024 9:01 PM To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 246, Issue 15 Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com You can reach the person managing the list at detomaso-owner@server.detomasolist.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..." _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list -- detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To unsubscribe send an email to detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. I wonder if EFI makes solves the "buck and snort"? I suspect big carbs and big cams don't meter or distribute fuel real well at low RPM, especially with a single plane intake manifold. On Tuesday, December 24, 2024 at 08:27:47 AM PST, <dnunn@telus.net> wrote: Mike, When I built the engine for 5165 (which now resides in the Jacksonville Sports Car Museum - https://www.jaxsportscarmuseum.com/gallery-1), I wanted it to rev as quickly as possible. Accordingly, I made sure the entire reciprocating assembly was as light at possible. I used a lightweight crank damper, lightened pistons and rods, gun-drilled crank throws, 157 tooth aluminum flywheel and a diaphragm pressure plate with an aluminum friction ring. The engine was internally balanced and had a solid roller cam, T&D shaft rockers, etc. It revved so fast it was difficult to keep off the rev limiter. I had none of the "buck and snort" you mentioned, when driving at low speed. I could easily drive at 2 mph in a parade or in stop and go traffic. Driving on and off a trailer was easy too. In fact, at parking lot speeds, it wasn't much different than when it was stock. This leads me to believe that the "buck and snort" you're describing is a tuning issue that is masked by a heavy flywheel. My 2 cents! Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- -------------------------------------- Dan, I was convinced to go for a Fidanza aluminum flywheel, and I think it's too light for the street. Yes, it makes the engine rev faster which is entertaining. But it, coupled with a fairly aggressive cam, makes the car buck and snort when trying to inch along at very low speed. I have to use the clutch and rev the engine far more than one might expect-almost like a smaller-displacement Ferrari. Lori's engine has a stock flywheel and has pleasingly truck-like characteristics at walking pace. An intermediate-weight flywheel would probably be the best bet. Mike Sent from my iPad the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. -----Original Message----- From: [7]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com <[8]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2024 9:01 PM To: [9]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 246, Issue 15 Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to [10]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [11]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com You can reach the person managing the list at [12]detomaso-owner@server.detomasolist.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..." _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list -- [13]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To unsubscribe send an email to [14]detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:julian_kift@hotmail.com 2. mailto:dan@excaliburre.com 3. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 4. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 5. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 6. mailto:detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com 7. mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 8. mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 9. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 10. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 11. mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 12. mailto:detomaso-owner@server.detomasolist.com 13. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 14. mailto:detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com
Ken, That is certainly possible. The engine idles very smoothly at about 850 rpm. Dave From: Ken Green <kenn_green@yahoo.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2024 8:37 AM To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com; dnunn@telus.net Cc: 'MICHAEL DREW' <mikeldrew@aol.com>; dan@excaliburre.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Re: Flywheel material and tooth count? I wonder if EFI makes solves the "buck and snort"? I suspect big carbs and big cams don't meter or distribute fuel real well at low RPM, especially with a single plane intake manifold. On Tuesday, December 24, 2024 at 08:27:47 AM PST, <dnunn@telus.net <mailto:dnunn@telus.net> > wrote: Mike, When I built the engine for 5165 (which now resides in the Jacksonville Sports Car Museum - https://www.jaxsportscarmuseum.com/gallery-1), I wanted it to rev as quickly as possible. Accordingly, I made sure the entire reciprocating assembly was as light at possible. I used a lightweight crank damper, lightened pistons and rods, gun-drilled crank throws, 157 tooth aluminum flywheel and a diaphragm pressure plate with an aluminum friction ring. The engine was internally balanced and had a solid roller cam, T&D shaft rockers, etc. It revved so fast it was difficult to keep off the rev limiter. I had none of the "buck and snort" you mentioned, when driving at low speed. I could easily drive at 2 mph in a parade or in stop and go traffic. Driving on and off a trailer was easy too. In fact, at parking lot speeds, it wasn't much different than when it was stock. This leads me to believe that the "buck and snort" you're describing is a tuning issue that is masked by a heavy flywheel. My 2 cents! Dave ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------- Dan, I was convinced to go for a Fidanza aluminum flywheel, and I think it's too light for the street. Yes, it makes the engine rev faster which is entertaining. But it, coupled with a fairly aggressive cam, makes the car buck and snort when trying to inch along at very low speed. I have to use the clutch and rev the engine far more than one might expect-almost like a smaller-displacement Ferrari. Lori's engine has a stock flywheel and has pleasingly truck-like characteristics at walking pace. An intermediate-weight flywheel would probably be the best bet. Mike Sent from my iPad
On Dec 19, 2024, at 18:53, Julian Kift <julian_kift@hotmail.com <mailto:julian_kift@hotmail.com> > wrote:
164 tooth and personally I'd go with a billet steel flywheel for a
street performance engine
Julian
__________________________________________________________________
From: Dan <dan@excaliburre.com <mailto:dan@excaliburre.com> >
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2024 3:44 PM
To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> >
Subject: [DeTomaso] Flywheel material and tooth count?
Does anyone know what tooth count for the flywheel? And what is better
for a
performance street Pantera, steel or aluminum?
Thanks,
Dan
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not
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Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. -----Original Message----- From: detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com> <detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com> > Sent: Friday, December 20, 2024 9:01 PM To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 246, Issue 15 Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To subscribe or unsubscribe via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com> You can reach the person managing the list at detomaso-owner@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso-owner@server.detomasolist.com> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..." _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list -- detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To unsubscribe send an email to detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Ken, That is certainly possible. The engine idles very smoothly at about 850 rpm. Dave From: Ken Green <kenn_green@yahoo.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2024 8:37 AM To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com; dnunn@telus.net Cc: 'MICHAEL DREW' <mikeldrew@aol.com>; dan@excaliburre.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Re: Flywheel material and tooth count? I wonder if EFI makes solves the "buck and snort"? I suspect big carbs and big cams don't meter or distribute fuel real well at low RPM, especially with a single plane intake manifold. On Tuesday, December 24, 2024 at 08:27:47 AM PST, <[1]dnunn@telus.net> wrote: Mike, When I built the engine for 5165 (which now resides in the Jacksonville Sports Car Museum - [2]https://www.jaxsportscarmuseum.com/gallery-1), I wanted it to rev as quickly as possible. Accordingly, I made sure the entire reciprocating assembly was as light at possible. I used a lightweight crank damper, lightened pistons and rods, gun-drilled crank throws, 157 tooth aluminum flywheel and a diaphragm pressure plate with an aluminum friction ring. The engine was internally balanced and had a solid roller cam, T&D shaft rockers, etc. It revved so fast it was difficult to keep off the rev limiter. I had none of the "buck and snort" you mentioned, when driving at low speed. I could easily drive at 2 mph in a parade or in stop and go traffic. Driving on and off a trailer was easy too. In fact, at parking lot speeds, it wasn't much different than when it was stock. This leads me to believe that the "buck and snort" you're describing is a tuning issue that is masked by a heavy flywheel. My 2 cents! Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- -------------------------------------- Dan, I was convinced to go for a Fidanza aluminum flywheel, and I think it's too light for the street. Yes, it makes the engine rev faster which is entertaining. But it, coupled with a fairly aggressive cam, makes the car buck and snort when trying to inch along at very low speed. I have to use the clutch and rev the engine far more than one might expect-almost like a smaller-displacement Ferrari. Lori's engine has a stock flywheel and has pleasingly truck-like characteristics at walking pace. An intermediate-weight flywheel would probably be the best bet. Mike Sent from my iPad
On Dec 19, 2024, at 18:53, Julian Kift <[3]julian_kift@hotmail.com> wrote:
164 tooth and personally I'd go with a billet steel flywheel for a
street performance engine
Julian
__________________________________________________________________
From: Dan <[4]dan@excaliburre.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2024 3:44 PM
To: [5]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <[6]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: [DeTomaso] Flywheel material and tooth count?
Does anyone know what tooth count for the flywheel? And what is better
for a
performance street Pantera, steel or aluminum?
Thanks,
Dan
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not
exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list --
[7]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To unsubscribe send an email to
[8]detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com
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Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. -----Original Message----- From: [9]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com <[10]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2024 9:01 PM To: [11]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 246, Issue 15 Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to [12]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [13]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com You can reach the person managing the list at [14]detomaso-owner@server.detomasolist.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..." _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list -- [15]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To unsubscribe send an email to [16]detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:dnunn@telus.net 2. https://www.jaxsportscarmuseum.com/gallery-1 3. mailto:julian_kift@hotmail.com 4. mailto:dan@excaliburre.com 5. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 6. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 7. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 8. mailto:detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com 9. mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 10. mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 11. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 12. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 13. mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 14. mailto:detomaso-owner@server.detomasolist.com 15. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 16. mailto:detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com
EFI + IR manifold = idle + low-speed torque Have a great Xmas everyone!! Dave davel@trguys.com
On Dec 24, 2024, at 8:45 AM, dnunn@telus.net wrote:
Ken,
That is certainly possible. The engine idles very smoothly at about 850 rpm.
Dave
From: Ken Green <kenn_green@yahoo.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2024 8:37 AM To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com; dnunn@telus.net Cc: 'MICHAEL DREW' <mikeldrew@aol.com>; dan@excaliburre.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Re: Flywheel material and tooth count?
I wonder if EFI makes solves the "buck and snort"? I suspect big carbs and big cams don't meter or distribute fuel real well at low RPM, especially with a single plane intake manifold.
On Tuesday, December 24, 2024 at 08:27:47 AM PST, <[1]dnunn@telus.net> wrote:
Mike,
When I built the engine for 5165 (which now resides in the Jacksonville
Sports Car Museum - [2]https://www.jaxsportscarmuseum.com/gallery-1), I wanted
it to rev as quickly as possible. Accordingly, I made sure the entire
reciprocating assembly was as light at possible. I used a lightweight crank
damper, lightened pistons and rods, gun-drilled crank throws, 157 tooth
aluminum flywheel and a diaphragm pressure plate with an aluminum friction
ring. The engine was internally balanced and had a solid roller cam, T&D
shaft rockers, etc. It revved so fast it was difficult to keep off the rev
limiter. I had none of the "buck and snort" you mentioned, when driving at
low speed. I could easily drive at 2 mph in a parade or in stop and go
traffic. Driving on and off a trailer was easy too. In fact, at parking lot
speeds, it wasn't much different than when it was stock. This leads me to
believe that the "buck and snort" you're describing is a tuning issue that
is masked by a heavy flywheel.
My 2 cents!
Dave
----------------------------------------------------------------------- -----
--------------------------------------
Dan,
I was convinced to go for a Fidanza aluminum flywheel, and I think it's too
light for the street.
Yes, it makes the engine rev faster which is entertaining. But it, coupled
with a fairly aggressive cam, makes the car buck and snort when trying to
inch along at very low speed. I have to use the clutch and rev the engine
far more than one might expect-almost like a smaller-displacement Ferrari.
Lori's engine has a stock flywheel and has pleasingly truck-like
characteristics at walking pace.
An intermediate-weight flywheel would probably be the best bet.
Mike
Sent from my iPad
On Dec 19, 2024, at 18:53, Julian Kift <[3]julian_kift@hotmail.com> wrote:
164 tooth and personally I'd go with a billet steel flywheel for a
street performance engine
Julian
__________________________________________________________________
From: Dan <[4]dan@excaliburre.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2024 3:44 PM
To: [5]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <[6]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: [DeTomaso] Flywheel material and tooth count?
Does anyone know what tooth count for the flywheel? And what is better
for a
performance street Pantera, steel or aluminum?
Thanks,
Dan
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not
exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list --
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They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve
the archiving of list messages.
-----Original Message-----
From: [9]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com
<[10]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2024 9:01 PM
To: [11]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 246, Issue 15
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References
1. mailto:dnunn@telus.net 2. https://www.jaxsportscarmuseum.com/gallery-1 3. mailto:julian_kift@hotmail.com 4. mailto:dan@excaliburre.com 5. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 6. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 7. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 8. mailto:detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com 9. mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 10. mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 11. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 12. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 13. mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 14. mailto:detomaso-owner@server.detomasolist.com 15. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 16. mailto:detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com _______________________________________________
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Ken, My engine is similar to Dave's ( super lightweight (stock stroke) rotating assy, aluminum FW, large solid roller etc..) and uses a Holley carb and has does not "buck and snort" either. I think it is more of a tuning issue than the aluminum flywheel. Ron On 12/24/2024 11:37 AM EST Ken Green via DeTomaso <[1]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote: I wonder if EFI makes solves the "buck and snort"? I suspect big carbs and big cams don't meter or distribute fuel real well at low RPM, especially with a single plane intake manifold. On Tuesday, December 24, 2024 at 08:27:47 AM PST, <[2]dnunn@telus.net> wrote: Mike, When I built the engine for 5165 (which now resides in the Jacksonville Sports Car Museum - [3]https://www.jaxsportscarmuseum.com/gallery-1), I wanted it to rev as quickly as possible. Accordingly, I made sure the entire reciprocating assembly was as light at possible. I used a lightweight crank damper, lightened pistons and rods, gun-drilled crank throws, 157 tooth aluminum flywheel and a diaphragm pressure plate with an aluminum friction ring. The engine was internally balanced and had a solid roller cam, T&D shaft rockers, etc. It revved so fast it was difficult to keep off the rev limiter. I had none of the "buck and snort" you mentioned, when driving at low speed. I could easily drive at 2 mph in a parade or in stop and go traffic. Driving on and off a trailer was easy too. In fact, at parking lot speeds, it wasn't much different than when it was stock. This leads me to believe that the "buck and snort" you're describing is a tuning issue that is masked by a heavy flywheel. My 2 cents! Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- -------------------------------------- Dan, I was convinced to go for a Fidanza aluminum flywheel, and I think it's too light for the street. Yes, it makes the engine rev faster which is entertaining. But it, coupled with a fairly aggressive cam, makes the car buck and snort when trying to inch along at very low speed. I have to use the clutch and rev the engine far more than one might expect-almost like a smaller-displacement Ferrari. Lori's engine has a stock flywheel and has pleasingly truck-like characteristics at walking pace. An intermediate-weight flywheel would probably be the best bet. Mike Sent from my iPad On Dec 19, 2024, at 18:53, Julian Kift <[4]julian_kift@hotmail.com> wrote: 164 tooth and personally I'd go with a billet steel flywheel for a
street performance engine
Julian
__________________________________________________________________
From: Dan <[5]dan@excaliburre.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2024 3:44 PM
To: [6]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <[7]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: [DeTomaso] Flywheel material and tooth count?
Does anyone know what tooth count for the flywheel? And what is better
for a
performance street Pantera, steel or aluminum?
Thanks,
Dan
_______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list -- [8]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To unsubscribe send an email to [9]detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. -----Original Message----- From: [10]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com <[11]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2024 9:01 PM To: [12]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 246, Issue 15 Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to [13]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [14]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com You can reach the person managing the list at [15]detomaso-owner@server.detomasolist.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..." _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list -- [16]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To unsubscribe send an email to [17]detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. I wonder if EFI makes solves the "buck and snort"? I suspect big carbs and big cams don't meter or distribute fuel real well at low RPM, especially with a single plane intake manifold. On Tuesday, December 24, 2024 at 08:27:47 AM PST, <[18]dnunn@telus.net> wrote: Mike, When I built the engine for 5165 (which now resides in the Jacksonville Sports Car Museum - [19]https://www.jaxsportscarmuseum.com/gallery-1), I wanted it to rev as quickly as possible. Accordingly, I made sure the entire reciprocating assembly was as light at possible. I used a lightweight crank damper, lightened pistons and rods, gun-drilled crank throws, 157 tooth aluminum flywheel and a diaphragm pressure plate with an aluminum friction ring. The engine was internally balanced and had a solid roller cam, T&D shaft rockers, etc. It revved so fast it was difficult to keep off the rev limiter. I had none of the "buck and snort" you mentioned, when driving at low speed. I could easily drive at 2 mph in a parade or in stop and go traffic. Driving on and off a trailer was easy too. In fact, at parking lot speeds, it wasn't much different than when it was stock. This leads me to believe that the "buck and snort" you're describing is a tuning issue that is masked by a heavy flywheel. My 2 cents! Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- -------------------------------------- Dan, I was convinced to go for a Fidanza aluminum flywheel, and I think it's too light for the street. Yes, it makes the engine rev faster which is entertaining. But it, coupled with a fairly aggressive cam, makes the car buck and snort when trying to inch along at very low speed. I have to use the clutch and rev the engine far more than one might expect-almost like a smaller-displacement Ferrari. Lori's engine has a stock flywheel and has pleasingly truck-like characteristics at walking pace. An intermediate-weight flywheel would probably be the best bet. Mike Sent from my iPad
On Dec 19, 2024, at 18:53, Julian Kift <[1][20]julian_kift@hotmail.com>
wrote:
164 tooth and personally I'd go with a billet steel flywheel for a
street performance engine
Julian
__________________________________________________________________
From: Dan <[2][21]dan@excaliburre.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2024 3:44 PM
To: [3][22]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
<[4][23]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: [DeTomaso] Flywheel material and tooth count?
Does anyone know what tooth count for the flywheel? And what is
better
for a
performance street Pantera, steel or aluminum?
Thanks,
Dan
_______________________________________________
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any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. -----Original Message----- From: [7][26]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com <[8][27]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2024 9:01 PM To: [9][28]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 246, Issue 15 Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to [10][29]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [11][30]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com You can reach the person managing the list at [12][31]detomaso-owner@server.detomasolist.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..." _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list -- [13][32]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To unsubscribe send an email to [14][33]detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:[34]julian_kift@hotmail.com 2. mailto:[35]dan@excaliburre.com 3. mailto:[36]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 4. mailto:[37]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 5. mailto:[38]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 6. mailto:[39]detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com 7. mailto:[40]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 8. mailto:[41]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 9. mailto:[42]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 10. mailto:[43]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 11. mailto:[44]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 12. mailto:[45]detomaso-owner@server.detomasolist.com 13. mailto:[46]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 14. mailto:[47]detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list -- [48]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To unsubscribe send an email to [49]detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 2. mailto:dnunn@telus.net 3. https://www.jaxsportscarmuseum.com/gallery-1 4. mailto:julian_kift@hotmail.com 5. mailto:dan@excaliburre.com 6. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 7. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 8. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 9. mailto:detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com 10. mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 11. mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 12. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 13. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 14. mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 15. mailto:detomaso-owner@server.detomasolist.com 16. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 17. mailto:detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com 18. mailto:dnunn@telus.net 19. https://www.jaxsportscarmuseum.com/gallery-1 20. mailto:julian_kift@hotmail.com 21. mailto:dan@excaliburre.com 22. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 23. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 24. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 25. mailto:detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com 26. mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 27. mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 28. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 29. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 30. mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 31. mailto:detomaso-owner@server.detomasolist.com 32. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 33. mailto:detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com 34. mailto:julian_kift@hotmail.com 35. mailto:dan@excaliburre.com 36. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 37. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 38. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 39. mailto:detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com 40. mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 41. mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 42. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 43. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 44. mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 45. mailto:detomaso-owner@server.detomasolist.com 46. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 47. mailto:detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com 48. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 49. mailto:detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com
I have a 347 stroker in a 66 mustang. It was running werry find with a C4 change to Tremec T5. It now buck and snor real bad on low rpm. Not able to tune it any better? To much cam?Sendt fra min Galaxy -------- Opprinnelig melding --------Fra: Ron McCall via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Dato: 24.12.2024 19:29 (GMT+01:00) Til: Ken Green <kenn_green@yahoo.com>, Ken Green via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>, dnunn@telus.net Ko: MICHAEL DREW <mikeldrew@aol.com>, dan@excaliburre.com Emne: [DeTomaso] Re: Flywheel material and tooth count? Ken, My engine is similar to Dave's ( super lightweight (stock stroke) rotating assy, aluminum FW, large solid roller etc..) and uses a Holley carb and has does not "buck and snort" either. I think it is more of a tuning issue than the aluminum flywheel. Ron On 12/24/2024 11:37 AM EST Ken Green via DeTomaso <[1]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote: I wonder if EFI makes solves the "buck and snort"? I suspect big carbs and big cams don't meter or distribute fuel real well at low RPM, especially with a single plane intake manifold. On Tuesday, December 24, 2024 at 08:27:47 AM PST, <[2]dnunn@telus.net> wrote: Mike, When I built the engine for 5165 (which now resides in the Jacksonville Sports Car Museum - [3]https://www.jaxsportscarmuseum.com/gallery-1), I wanted it to rev as quickly as possible. Accordingly, I made sure the entire reciprocating assembly was as light at possible. I used a lightweight crank damper, lightened pistons and rods, gun-drilled crank throws, 157 tooth aluminum flywheel and a diaphragm pressure plate with an aluminum friction ring. The engine was internally balanced and had a solid roller cam, T&D shaft rockers, etc. It revved so fast it was difficult to keep off the rev limiter. I had none of the "buck and snort" you mentioned, when driving at low speed. I could easily drive at 2 mph in a parade or in stop and go traffic. Driving on and off a trailer was easy too. In fact, at parking lot speeds, it wasn't much different than when it was stock. This leads me to believe that the "buck and snort" you're describing is a tuning issue that is masked by a heavy flywheel. My 2 cents! Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- -------------------------------------- Dan, I was convinced to go for a Fidanza aluminum flywheel, and I think it's too light for the street. Yes, it makes the engine rev faster which is entertaining. But it, coupled with a fairly aggressive cam, makes the car buck and snort when trying to inch along at very low speed. I have to use the clutch and rev the engine far more than one might expect-almost like a smaller-displacement Ferrari. Lori's engine has a stock flywheel and has pleasingly truck-like characteristics at walking pace. An intermediate-weight flywheel would probably be the best bet. Mike Sent from my iPad On Dec 19, 2024, at 18:53, Julian Kift <[4]julian_kift@hotmail.com> wrote: 164 tooth and personally I'd go with a billet steel flywheel for a > street performance engine Julian > __________________________________________________________________ From: Dan <[5]dan@excaliburre.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2024 3:44 PM > To: [6]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <[7]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> > Subject: [DeTomaso] Flywheel material and tooth count? Does anyone know what tooth count for the flywheel? And what is better > for a > performance street Pantera, steel or aluminum? Thanks, > Dan _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list -- [8]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To unsubscribe send an email to [9]detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. -----Original Message----- From: [10]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com <[11]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2024 9:01 PM To: [12]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 246, Issue 15 Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to [13]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [14]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com You can reach the person managing the list at [15]detomaso-owner@server.detomasolist.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..." _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list -- [16]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To unsubscribe send an email to [17]detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. I wonder if EFI makes solves the "buck and snort"? I suspect big carbs and big cams don't meter or distribute fuel real well at low RPM, especially with a single plane intake manifold. On Tuesday, December 24, 2024 at 08:27:47 AM PST, <[18]dnunn@telus.net> wrote: Mike, When I built the engine for 5165 (which now resides in the Jacksonville Sports Car Museum - [19]https://www.jaxsportscarmuseum.com/gallery-1), I wanted it to rev as quickly as possible. Accordingly, I made sure the entire reciprocating assembly was as light at possible. I used a lightweight crank damper, lightened pistons and rods, gun-drilled crank throws, 157 tooth aluminum flywheel and a diaphragm pressure plate with an aluminum friction ring. The engine was internally balanced and had a solid roller cam, T&D shaft rockers, etc. It revved so fast it was difficult to keep off the rev limiter. I had none of the "buck and snort" you mentioned, when driving at low speed. I could easily drive at 2 mph in a parade or in stop and go traffic. Driving on and off a trailer was easy too. In fact, at parking lot speeds, it wasn't much different than when it was stock. This leads me to believe that the "buck and snort" you're describing is a tuning issue that is masked by a heavy flywheel. My 2 cents! Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- -------------------------------------- Dan, I was convinced to go for a Fidanza aluminum flywheel, and I think it's too light for the street. Yes, it makes the engine rev faster which is entertaining. But it, coupled with a fairly aggressive cam, makes the car buck and snort when trying to inch along at very low speed. I have to use the clutch and rev the engine far more than one might expect-almost like a smaller-displacement Ferrari. Lori's engine has a stock flywheel and has pleasingly truck-like characteristics at walking pace. An intermediate-weight flywheel would probably be the best bet. Mike Sent from my iPad > On Dec 19, 2024, at 18:53, Julian Kift <[1][20]julian_kift@hotmail.com> wrote: > > 164 tooth and personally I'd go with a billet steel flywheel for a > street performance engine > > Julian > __________________________________________________________________ > > From: Dan <[2][21]dan@excaliburre.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2024 3:44 PM > To: [3][22]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <[4][23]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> > Subject: [DeTomaso] Flywheel material and tooth count? > > Does anyone know what tooth count for the flywheel? And what is better > for a > performance street Pantera, steel or aluminum? > > Thanks, > Dan > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not > exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list -- > [5][24]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To unsubscribe send an email to > [6][25]detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. -----Original Message----- From: [7][26]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com <[8][27]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2024 9:01 PM To: [9][28]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 246, Issue 15 Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to [10][29]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [11][30]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com You can reach the person managing the list at [12][31]detomaso-owner@server.detomasolist.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..." _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list -- [13][32]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To unsubscribe send an email to [14][33]detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. 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References 1. mailto:[34]julian_kift@hotmail.com 2. mailto:[35]dan@excaliburre.com 3. mailto:[36]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 4. mailto:[37]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 5. mailto:[38]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 6. mailto:[39]detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com 7. mailto:[40]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 8. mailto:[41]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 9. mailto:[42]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 10. mailto:[43]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 11. mailto:[44]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 12. mailto:[45]detomaso-owner@server.detomasolist.com 13. mailto:[46]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 14. mailto:[47]detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list -- [48]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To unsubscribe send an email to [49]detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. 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They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.References 1. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 2. mailto:dnunn@telus.net 3. https://www.jaxsportscarmuseum.com/gallery-1 4. mailto:julian_kift@hotmail.com 5. mailto:dan@excaliburre.com 6. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 7. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 8. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 9. mailto:detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com 10. mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 11. mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 12. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 13. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 14. mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 15. mailto:detomaso-owner@server.detomasolist.com 16. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 17. mailto:detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com 18. mailto:dnunn@telus.net 19. https://www.jaxsportscarmuseum.com/gallery-1 20. mailto:julian_kift@hotmail.com 21. mailto:dan@excaliburre.com 22. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 23. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 24. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 25. mailto:detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com 26. mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 27. mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 28. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 29. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 30. mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 31. mailto:detomaso-owner@server.detomasolist.com 32. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 33. mailto:detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com 34. mailto:julian_kift@hotmail.com 35. mailto:dan@excaliburre.com 36. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 37. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 38. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 39. mailto:detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com 40. mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 41. mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 42. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 43. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 44. mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 45. mailto:detomaso-owner@server.detomasolist.com 46. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 47. mailto:detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com 48. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 49. mailto:detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com_______________________________________________Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCAPosted emails must not exceed 1.5 MegabytesDeTomaso mailing list -- detomaso@server.detomasolist.comTo unsubscribe send an email to detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.comTo manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. I have a 347 stroker in a 66 mustang. It was running werry find with a C4 change to Tremec T5. It now buck and snor real bad on low rpm. Not able to tune it any better? To much cam? Sendt fra min Galaxy -------- Opprinnelig melding -------- Fra: Ron McCall via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Dato: 24.12.2024 19:29 (GMT+01:00) Til: Ken Green <kenn_green@yahoo.com>, Ken Green via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>, dnunn@telus.net Ko: MICHAEL DREW <mikeldrew@aol.com>, dan@excaliburre.com Emne: [DeTomaso] Re: Flywheel material and tooth count? Ken, My engine is similar to Dave's ( super lightweight (stock stroke) rotating assy, aluminum FW, large solid roller etc..) and uses a Holley carb and has does not "buck and snort" either. I think it is more of a tuning issue than the aluminum flywheel. Ron On 12/24/2024 11:37 AM EST Ken Green via DeTomaso <[1]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote: I wonder if EFI makes solves the "buck and snort"? I suspect big carbs and big cams don't meter or distribute fuel real well at low RPM, especially with a single plane intake manifold. On Tuesday, December 24, 2024 at 08:27:47 AM PST, <[2]dnunn@telus.net> wrote: Mike, When I built the engine for 5165 (which now resides in the Jacksonville Sports Car Museum - [3]https://www.jaxsportscarmuseum.com/gallery-1), I wanted it to rev as quickly as possible. Accordingly, I made sure the entire reciprocating assembly was as light at possible. I used a lightweight crank damper, lightened pistons and rods, gun-drilled crank throws, 157 tooth aluminum flywheel and a diaphragm pressure plate with an aluminum friction ring. The engine was internally balanced and had a solid roller cam, T&D shaft rockers, etc. It revved so fast it was difficult to keep off the rev limiter. I had none of the "buck and snort" you mentioned, when driving at low speed. I could easily drive at 2 mph in a parade or in stop and go traffic. Driving on and off a trailer was easy too. In fact, at parking lot speeds, it wasn't much different than when it was stock. This leads me to believe that the "buck and snort" you're describing is a tuning issue that is masked by a heavy flywheel. My 2 cents! Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- -------------------------------------- Dan, I was convinced to go for a Fidanza aluminum flywheel, and I think it's too light for the street. Yes, it makes the engine rev faster which is entertaining. But it, coupled with a fairly aggressive cam, makes the car buck and snort when trying to inch along at very low speed. I have to use the clutch and rev the engine far more than one might expect-almost like a smaller-displacement Ferrari. Lori's engine has a stock flywheel and has pleasingly truck-like characteristics at walking pace. An intermediate-weight flywheel would probably be the best bet. Mike Sent from my iPad On Dec 19, 2024, at 18:53, Julian Kift <[4]julian_kift@hotmail.com> wrote: 164 tooth and personally I'd go with a billet steel flywheel for a > street performance engine Julian > __________________________________________________________________ From: Dan <[5]dan@excaliburre.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2024 3:44 PM > To: [6]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <[7]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> > Subject: [DeTomaso] Flywheel material and tooth count? Does anyone know what tooth count for the flywheel? And what is better > for a > performance street Pantera, steel or aluminum? Thanks, > Dan _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list -- [8]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To unsubscribe send an email to [9]detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. -----Original Message----- From: [10]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com <[11]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2024 9:01 PM To: [12]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 246, Issue 15 Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to [13]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [14]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com You can reach the person managing the list at [15]detomaso-owner@server.detomasolist.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..." _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list -- [16]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To unsubscribe send an email to [17]detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. I wonder if EFI makes solves the "buck and snort"? I suspect big carbs and big cams don't meter or distribute fuel real well at low RPM, especially with a single plane intake manifold. On Tuesday, December 24, 2024 at 08:27:47 AM PST, <[18]dnunn@telus.net> wrote: Mike, When I built the engine for 5165 (which now resides in the Jacksonville Sports Car Museum - [19]https://www.jaxsportscarmuseum.com/gallery-1), I wanted it to rev as quickly as possible. Accordingly, I made sure the entire reciprocating assembly was as light at possible. I used a lightweight crank damper, lightened pistons and rods, gun-drilled crank throws, 157 tooth aluminum flywheel and a diaphragm pressure plate with an aluminum friction ring. The engine was internally balanced and had a solid roller cam, T&D shaft rockers, etc. It revved so fast it was difficult to keep off the rev limiter. I had none of the "buck and snort" you mentioned, when driving at low speed. I could easily drive at 2 mph in a parade or in stop and go traffic. Driving on and off a trailer was easy too. In fact, at parking lot speeds, it wasn't much different than when it was stock. This leads me to believe that the "buck and snort" you're describing is a tuning issue that is masked by a heavy flywheel. My 2 cents! Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- -------------------------------------- Dan, I was convinced to go for a Fidanza aluminum flywheel, and I think it's too light for the street. Yes, it makes the engine rev faster which is entertaining. But it, coupled with a fairly aggressive cam, makes the car buck and snort when trying to inch along at very low speed. I have to use the clutch and rev the engine far more than one might expect-almost like a smaller-displacement Ferrari. Lori's engine has a stock flywheel and has pleasingly truck-like characteristics at walking pace. An intermediate-weight flywheel would probably be the best bet. Mike Sent from my iPad > On Dec 19, 2024, at 18:53, Julian Kift <[1][20]julian_kift@hotmail.com> wrote: > > 164 tooth and personally I'd go with a billet steel flywheel for a > street performance engine > > Julian > __________________________________________________________________ > > From: Dan <[2][21]dan@excaliburre.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2024 3:44 PM > To: [3][22]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <[4][23]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> > Subject: [DeTomaso] Flywheel material and tooth count? > > Does anyone know what tooth count for the flywheel? And what is better > for a > performance street Pantera, steel or aluminum? > > Thanks, > Dan > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not > exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list -- > [5][24]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To unsubscribe send an email to > [6][25]detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. -----Original Message----- From: [7][26]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com <[8][27]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2024 9:01 PM To: [9][28]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 246, Issue 15 Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to [10][29]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [11][30]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com You can reach the person managing the list at [12][31]detomaso-owner@server.detomasolist.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..." _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list -- [13][32]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To unsubscribe send an email to [14][33]detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:[34]julian_kift@hotmail.com 2. mailto:[35]dan@excaliburre.com 3. mailto:[36]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 4. mailto:[37]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 5. mailto:[38]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 6. mailto:[39]detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com 7. mailto:[40]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 8. mailto:[41]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 9. mailto:[42]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 10. mailto:[43]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 11. mailto:[44]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 12. mailto:[45]detomaso-owner@server.detomasolist.com 13. mailto:[46]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 14. mailto:[47]detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list -- [48]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To unsubscribe send an email to [49]detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 2. mailto:dnunn@telus.net 3. https://www.jaxsportscarmuseum.com/gallery-1 4. mailto:julian_kift@hotmail.com 5. mailto:dan@excaliburre.com 6. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 7. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 8. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 9. mailto:detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com 10. mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 11. mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 12. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 13. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 14. mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 15. mailto:detomaso-owner@server.detomasolist.com 16. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 17. mailto:detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com 18. mailto:dnunn@telus.net 19. https://www.jaxsportscarmuseum.com/gallery-1 20. mailto:julian_kift@hotmail.com 21. mailto:dan@excaliburre.com 22. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 23. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 24. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 25. mailto:detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com 26. mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 27. mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 28. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 29. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 30. mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 31. mailto:detomaso-owner@server.detomasolist.com 32. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 33. mailto:detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com 34. mailto:julian_kift@hotmail.com 35. mailto:dan@excaliburre.com 36. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 37. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 38. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 39. mailto:detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com 40. mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 41. mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 42. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 43. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 44. mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 45. mailto:detomaso-owner@server.detomasolist.com 46. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 47. mailto:detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com 48. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 49. mailto:detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list -- detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To unsubscribe send an email to detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. 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I had that issue resolved by Southland Clutch in National City. It had more to do with the clutch assembly than the flywheel. From: rfmccall@comcast.net <rfmccall@comcast.net> Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2024 10:29 AM To: Ken Green <kenn_green@yahoo.com>; Ken Green via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>; dnunn@telus.net Cc: MICHAEL DREW <mikeldrew@aol.com>; dan@excaliburre.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Re: Flywheel material and tooth count? Ken, My engine is similar to Dave's ( super lightweight (stock stroke) rotating assy, aluminum FW, large solid roller etc..) and uses a Holley carb and has does not "buck and snort" either. I think it is more of a tuning issue than the aluminum flywheel. I had that issue resolved by Southland Clutch in National City. It had more to do with the clutch assembly than the flywheel. From: rfmccall@comcast.net <rfmccall@comcast.net> Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2024 10:29 AM To: Ken Green <kenn_green@yahoo.com>; Ken Green via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>; dnunn@telus.net Cc: MICHAEL DREW <mikeldrew@aol.com>; dan@excaliburre.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Re: Flywheel material and tooth count? Ken, My engine is similar to Dave's ( super lightweight (stock stroke) rotating assy, aluminum FW, large solid roller etc..) and uses a Holley carb and has does not "buck and snort" either. I think it is more of a tuning issue than the aluminum flywheel.
My GT5 show the same symptoms as Mike with an aluminum flywheel, but I probably notice it more as it doesn’t sit in a museum. Julian
On Dec 24, 2024, at 08:27, dnunn@telus.net wrote:
Mike,
When I built the engine for 5165 (which now resides in the Jacksonville Sports Car Museum - https://www.jaxsportscarmuseum.com/gallery-1), I wanted it to rev as quickly as possible. Accordingly, I made sure the entire reciprocating assembly was as light at possible. I used a lightweight crank damper, lightened pistons and rods, gun-drilled crank throws, 157 tooth aluminum flywheel and a diaphragm pressure plate with an aluminum friction ring. The engine was internally balanced and had a solid roller cam, T&D shaft rockers, etc. It revved so fast it was difficult to keep off the rev limiter. I had none of the "buck and snort" you mentioned, when driving at low speed. I could easily drive at 2 mph in a parade or in stop and go traffic. Driving on and off a trailer was easy too. In fact, at parking lot speeds, it wasn't much different than when it was stock. This leads me to believe that the "buck and snort" you're describing is a tuning issue that is masked by a heavy flywheel.
My 2 cents!
Dave
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------
Dan,
I was convinced to go for a Fidanza aluminum flywheel, and I think it's too light for the street.
Yes, it makes the engine rev faster which is entertaining. But it, coupled with a fairly aggressive cam, makes the car buck and snort when trying to inch along at very low speed. I have to use the clutch and rev the engine far more than one might expect-almost like a smaller-displacement Ferrari. Lori's engine has a stock flywheel and has pleasingly truck-like characteristics at walking pace.
An intermediate-weight flywheel would probably be the best bet.
Mike
Sent from my iPad
On Dec 19, 2024, at 18:53, Julian Kift <julian_kift@hotmail.com> wrote:
164 tooth and personally I'd go with a billet steel flywheel for a street performance engine
Julian __________________________________________________________________
From: Dan <dan@excaliburre.com> Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2024 3:44 PM To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: [DeTomaso] Flywheel material and tooth count?
Does anyone know what tooth count for the flywheel? And what is better for a performance street Pantera, steel or aluminum?
Thanks, Dan _______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list -- detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To unsubscribe send an email to detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com
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-----Original Message----- From: detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com <detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2024 9:01 PM To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 246, Issue 15
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Julian, The Pantera is driven regularly. The family that owns the museum try to drive most of the cars on a regular basis; although I'm told the Pantera and the Ford GT get driven the most! Dave -----Original Message----- From: Julian Kift <julian_kift@hotmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2024 8:38 AM To: dnunn@telus.net Cc: DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com; MICHAEL DREW <mikeldrew@aol.com>; dan@excaliburre.com Subject: Re: Flywheel material and tooth count? My GT5 show the same symptoms as Mike with an aluminum flywheel, but I probably notice it more as it doesn’t sit in a museum. Julian
On Dec 24, 2024, at 08:27, dnunn@telus.net wrote:
Mike,
When I built the engine for 5165 (which now resides in the Jacksonville Sports Car Museum - https://www.jaxsportscarmuseum.com/gallery-1), I wanted it to rev as quickly as possible. Accordingly, I made sure the entire reciprocating assembly was as light at possible. I used a lightweight crank damper, lightened pistons and rods, gun-drilled crank throws, 157 tooth aluminum flywheel and a diaphragm pressure plate with an aluminum friction ring. The engine was internally balanced and had a solid roller cam, T&D shaft rockers, etc. It revved so fast it was difficult to keep off the rev limiter. I had none of the "buck and snort" you mentioned, when driving at low speed. I could easily drive at 2 mph in a parade or in stop and go traffic. Driving on and off a trailer was easy too. In fact, at parking lot speeds, it wasn't much different than when it was stock. This leads me to believe that the "buck and snort" you're describing is a tuning issue that is masked by a heavy flywheel.
My 2 cents!
Dave
---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ --------------------------------------
Dan,
I was convinced to go for a Fidanza aluminum flywheel, and I think it's too light for the street.
Yes, it makes the engine rev faster which is entertaining. But it, coupled with a fairly aggressive cam, makes the car buck and snort when trying to inch along at very low speed. I have to use the clutch and rev the engine far more than one might expect-almost like a smaller-displacement Ferrari. Lori's engine has a stock flywheel and has pleasingly truck-like characteristics at walking pace.
An intermediate-weight flywheel would probably be the best bet.
Mike
Sent from my iPad
On Dec 19, 2024, at 18:53, Julian Kift <julian_kift@hotmail.com> wrote:
164 tooth and personally I'd go with a billet steel flywheel for a street performance engine
Julian __________________________________________________________________
From: Dan <dan@excaliburre.com> Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2024 3:44 PM To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: [DeTomaso] Flywheel material and tooth count?
Does anyone know what tooth count for the flywheel? And what is better for a performance street Pantera, steel or aluminum?
Thanks, Dan _______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list -- detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To unsubscribe send an email to detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com
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-----Original Message----- From: detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com <detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2024 9:01 PM To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 246, Issue 15
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On Dec 19, 2024, at 18:53, Julian Kift <julian_kift@hotmail.com> wrote:
164 tooth and personally I'd go with a billet steel flywheel for a street performance engine
Julian __________________________________________________________________
From: Dan <dan@excaliburre.com> Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2024 3:44 PM To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: [DeTomaso] Flywheel material and tooth count?
Does anyone know what tooth count for the flywheel? And what is better for a performance street Pantera, steel or aluminum?
Thanks, Dan _______________________________________________
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I've encountered chattering and such before but it was resolved at Southland Clutch in National City. This was about 15 years ago so I'm not super-clear on how they resolved it but I assume it was a matter of balancing. I believe I brought them the flywheel and clutch assembly. I think that was with a new Centerline billet flywheel. It's looking like the flywheel for The Winged Warrior got lost at a shop so I have to get a replacement. After reading all these helpful tips I'm still undecided between aluminum or steel. The Beast has aluminum and I love how it revs. But that's a full race engine with lightweight rods and "everything", all painstakingly balanced. The last flywheel in The Winged Warrior was billet steel, Centerline I believe. I liked the sound of the backpressure when you let off, but that's a reminder that it's quickly slowing the engine. For a street performance Pantera, maybe 400 hp, either might not make a big difference. Generally, lighter and faster sounds good, so aluminum I guess. What's the main benefit of steel? And what's wrong with the stock steel flywheel? Also, are the stock harmonic balancers ok? There are also the fluid type to help maintain balance, right? Dan -----Original Message----- From: dnunn@telus.net <dnunn@telus.net> Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2024 8:28 AM To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Cc: 'MICHAEL DREW' <mikeldrew@aol.com>; julian_kift@hotmail.com; dan@excaliburre.com Subject: Re: Flywheel material and tooth count? Mike, When I built the engine for 5165 (which now resides in the Jacksonville Sports Car Museum - https://www.jaxsportscarmuseum.com/gallery-1), I wanted it to rev as quickly as possible. Accordingly, I made sure the entire reciprocating assembly was as light at possible. I used a lightweight crank damper, lightened pistons and rods, gun-drilled crank throws, 157 tooth aluminum flywheel and a diaphragm pressure plate with an aluminum friction ring. The engine was internally balanced and had a solid roller cam, T&D shaft rockers, etc. It revved so fast it was difficult to keep off the rev limiter. I had none of the "buck and snort" you mentioned, when driving at low speed. I could easily drive at 2 mph in a parade or in stop and go traffic. Driving on and off a trailer was easy too. In fact, at parking lot speeds, it wasn't much different than when it was stock. This leads me to believe that the "buck and snort" you're describing is a tuning issue that is masked by a heavy flywheel. My 2 cents! Dave ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------- Dan, I was convinced to go for a Fidanza aluminum flywheel, and I think it's too light for the street. Yes, it makes the engine rev faster which is entertaining. But it, coupled with a fairly aggressive cam, makes the car buck and snort when trying to inch along at very low speed. I have to use the clutch and rev the engine far more than one might expect-almost like a smaller-displacement Ferrari. Lori's engine has a stock flywheel and has pleasingly truck-like characteristics at walking pace. An intermediate-weight flywheel would probably be the best bet. Mike Sent from my iPad the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. -----Original Message----- From: detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com <detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2024 9:01 PM To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 246, Issue 15 Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com You can reach the person managing the list at detomaso-owner@server.detomasolist.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..."
On Dec 19, 2024, at 18:53, Julian Kift <julian_kift@hotmail.com> wrote:
164 tooth and personally I'd go with a billet steel flywheel for a street performance engine
Julian __________________________________________________________________
From: Dan <dan@excaliburre.com> Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2024 3:44 PM To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: [DeTomaso] Flywheel material and tooth count?
Does anyone know what tooth count for the flywheel? And what is better for a performance street Pantera, steel or aluminum?
Thanks, Dan _______________________________________________
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As Larry Stock mentioned, a stock gray iron flywheel weighs 35-40 lbs. A n aluminum flywheel weighs 14-15 lbs. A lightened stock or custom steel flywheel weighs somewhere in between. Note that one internally balanced may be a little lighter due to the offset balance weights being removed. Note also that gray iron flywheels are well known to be unsafe above about 5500 rpms- and that was when they were new. YMMV On Tuesday, December 24, 2024 at 12:45:19 PM PST, Dan <dan@excaliburre.com> wrote: I've encountered chattering and such before but it was resolved at Southland Clutch in National City. This was about 15 years ago so I'm not super-clear on how they resolved it but I assume it was a matter of balancing. I believe I brought them the flywheel and clutch assembly. I think that was with a new Centerline billet flywheel. It's looking like the flywheel for The Winged Warrior got lost at a shop so I have to get a replacement. After reading all these helpful tips I'm still undecided between aluminum or steel. The Beast has aluminum and I love how it revs. But that's a full race engine with lightweight rods and "everything", all painstakingly balanced. The last flywheel in The Winged Warrior was billet steel, Centerline I believe. I liked the sound of the backpressure when you let off, but that's a reminder that it's quickly slowing the engine. For a street performance Pantera, maybe 400 hp, either might not make a big difference. Generally, lighter and faster sounds good, so aluminum I guess. What's the main benefit of steel? And what's wrong with the stock steel flywheel? Also, are the stock harmonic balancers ok? There are also the fluid type to help maintain balance, right? Dan -----Original Message----- From: dnunn@telus.net <dnunn@telus.net> Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2024 8:28 AM To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Cc: 'MICHAEL DREW' <mikeldrew@aol.com>; julian_kift@hotmail.com; dan@excaliburre.com Subject: Re: Flywheel material and tooth count? Mike, When I built the engine for 5165 (which now resides in the Jacksonville Sports Car Museum - https://www.jaxsportscarmuseum.com/gallery-1), I wanted it to rev as quickly as possible. Accordingly, I made sure the entire reciprocating assembly was as light at possible. I used a lightweight crank damper, lightened pistons and rods, gun-drilled crank throws, 157 tooth aluminum flywheel and a diaphragm pressure plate with an aluminum friction ring. The engine was internally balanced and had a solid roller cam, T&D shaft rockers, etc. It revved so fast it was difficult to keep off the rev limiter. I had none of the "buck and snort" you mentioned, when driving at low speed. I could easily drive at 2 mph in a parade or in stop and go traffic. Driving on and off a trailer was easy too. In fact, at parking lot speeds, it wasn't much different than when it was stock. This leads me to believe that the "buck and snort" you're describing is a tuning issue that is masked by a heavy flywheel. My 2 cents! Dave ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------- Dan, I was convinced to go for a Fidanza aluminum flywheel, and I think it's too light for the street. Yes, it makes the engine rev faster which is entertaining. But it, coupled with a fairly aggressive cam, makes the car buck and snort when trying to inch along at very low speed. I have to use the clutch and rev the engine far more than one might expect-almost like a smaller-displacement Ferrari. Lori's engine has a stock flywheel and has pleasingly truck-like characteristics at walking pace. An intermediate-weight flywheel would probably be the best bet. Mike Sent from my iPad the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
On Dec 19, 2024, at 18:53, Julian Kift <[6]julian_kift@hotmail.com> wrote:
164 tooth and personally I'd go with a billet steel flywheel for a street performance engine
Julian __________________________________________________________________
From: Dan <[7]dan@excaliburre.com> Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2024 3:44 PM To: [8]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <[9]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: [DeTomaso] Flywheel material and tooth count?
Does anyone know what tooth count for the flywheel? And what is better for a performance street Pantera, steel or aluminum?
Thanks, Dan _______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list -- [10]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To unsubscribe send an email to [11]detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com
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message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. -----Original Message----- From: detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com <detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2024 9:01 PM To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 246, Issue 15 Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com You can reach the person managing the list at detomaso-owner@server.detomasolist.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..." _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list -- detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To unsubscribe send an email to detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. As Larry Stock mentioned, a stock gray iron flywheel weighs 35-40 lbs. A n aluminum flywheel weighs 14-15 lbs. A lightened stock or custom steel flywheel weighs somewhere in between. Note that one internally balanced may be a little lighter due to the offset balance weights being removed. Note also that gray iron flywheels are well known to be unsafe above about 5500 rpms- and that was when they were new. YMMV On Tuesday, December 24, 2024 at 12:45:19 PM PST, Dan <dan@excaliburre.com> wrote: I've encountered chattering and such before but it was resolved at Southland Clutch in National City. This was about 15 years ago so I'm not super-clear on how they resolved it but I assume it was a matter of balancing. I believe I brought them the flywheel and clutch assembly. I think that was with a new Centerline billet flywheel. It's looking like the flywheel for The Winged Warrior got lost at a shop so I have to get a replacement. After reading all these helpful tips I'm still undecided between aluminum or steel. The Beast has aluminum and I love how it revs. But that's a full race engine with lightweight rods and "everything", all painstakingly balanced. The last flywheel in The Winged Warrior was billet steel, Centerline I believe. I liked the sound of the backpressure when you let off, but that's a reminder that it's quickly slowing the engine. For a street performance Pantera, maybe 400 hp, either might not make a big difference. Generally, lighter and faster sounds good, so aluminum I guess. What's the main benefit of steel? And what's wrong with the stock steel flywheel? Also, are the stock harmonic balancers ok? There are also the fluid type to help maintain balance, right? Dan -----Original Message----- From: [1]dnunn@telus.net <[2]dnunn@telus.net> Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2024 8:28 AM To: [3]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Cc: 'MICHAEL DREW' <[4]mikeldrew@aol.com>; julian_kift@hotmail.com; [5]dan@excaliburre.com Subject: Re: Flywheel material and tooth count? Mike, When I built the engine for 5165 (which now resides in the Jacksonville Sports Car Museum - https://www.jaxsportscarmuseum.com/gallery-1), I wanted it to rev as quickly as possible. Accordingly, I made sure the entire reciprocating assembly was as light at possible. I used a lightweight crank damper, lightened pistons and rods, gun-drilled crank throws, 157 tooth aluminum flywheel and a diaphragm pressure plate with an aluminum friction ring. The engine was internally balanced and had a solid roller cam, T&D shaft rockers, etc. It revved so fast it was difficult to keep off the rev limiter. I had none of the "buck and snort" you mentioned, when driving at low speed. I could easily drive at 2 mph in a parade or in stop and go traffic. Driving on and off a trailer was easy too. In fact, at parking lot speeds, it wasn't much different than when it was stock. This leads me to believe that the "buck and snort" you're describing is a tuning issue that is masked by a heavy flywheel. My 2 cents! Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- -------------------------------------- Dan, I was convinced to go for a Fidanza aluminum flywheel, and I think it's too light for the street. Yes, it makes the engine rev faster which is entertaining. But it, coupled with a fairly aggressive cam, makes the car buck and snort when trying to inch along at very low speed. I have to use the clutch and rev the engine far more than one might expect-almost like a smaller-displacement Ferrari. Lori's engine has a stock flywheel and has pleasingly truck-like characteristics at walking pace. An intermediate-weight flywheel would probably be the best bet. Mike Sent from my iPad the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. -----Original Message----- From: [12]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com <[13]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2024 9:01 PM To: [14]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 246, Issue 15 Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to [15]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [16]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com You can reach the person managing the list at [17]detomaso-owner@server.detomasolist.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..." _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list -- [18]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To unsubscribe send an email to [19]detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:dnunn@telus.net 2. mailto:dnunn@telus.net 3. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 4. mailto:mikeldrew@aol.com 5. mailto:dan@excaliburre.com 6. mailto:julian_kift@hotmail.com 7. mailto:dan@excaliburre.com 8. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 9. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 10. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 11. mailto:detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com 12. mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 13. mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 14. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 15. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 16. mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 17. mailto:detomaso-owner@server.detomasolist.com 18. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 19. mailto:detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com
On Dec 19, 2024, at 18:53, Julian Kift <julian_kift@hotmail.com <mailto:julian_kift@hotmail.com> > wrote:
164 tooth and personally I'd go with a billet steel flywheel for a street performance engine
Julian __________________________________________________________________
From: Dan <dan@excaliburre.com <mailto:dan@excaliburre.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2024 3:44 PM To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> > Subject: [DeTomaso] Flywheel material and tooth count?
Does anyone know what tooth count for the flywheel? And what is better for a performance street Pantera, steel or aluminum?
Thanks, Dan _______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list -- detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To unsubscribe send an email to detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com>
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Thanks Jack, I’ll re-read Larry’s reply, as I first read it quickly on my phone. Is there any viable reason to upgrade from the stock harmonic balancer as well? I had an ATI, but it also got misplaced over the years. Dan From: jderyke@aol.com <jderyke@aol.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2024 2:13 PM To: dnunn@telus.net; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com; Dan <dan@excaliburre.com> Cc: 'MICHAEL DREW' <mikeldrew@aol.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Re: Flywheel material and tooth count? As Larry Stock mentioned, a stock gray iron flywheel weighs 35-40 lbs. A n aluminum flywheel weighs 14-15 lbs. A lightened stock or custom steel flywheel weighs somewhere in between. Note that one internally balanced may be a little lighter due to the offset balance weights being removed. Note also that gray iron flywheels are well known to be unsafe above about 5500 rpms- and that was when they were new. YMMV On Tuesday, December 24, 2024 at 12:45:19 PM PST, Dan <dan@excaliburre.com <mailto:dan@excaliburre.com> > wrote: I've encountered chattering and such before but it was resolved at Southland Clutch in National City. This was about 15 years ago so I'm not super-clear on how they resolved it but I assume it was a matter of balancing. I believe I brought them the flywheel and clutch assembly. I think that was with a new Centerline billet flywheel. It's looking like the flywheel for The Winged Warrior got lost at a shop so I have to get a replacement. After reading all these helpful tips I'm still undecided between aluminum or steel. The Beast has aluminum and I love how it revs. But that's a full race engine with lightweight rods and "everything", all painstakingly balanced. The last flywheel in The Winged Warrior was billet steel, Centerline I believe. I liked the sound of the backpressure when you let off, but that's a reminder that it's quickly slowing the engine. For a street performance Pantera, maybe 400 hp, either might not make a big difference. Generally, lighter and faster sounds good, so aluminum I guess. What's the main benefit of steel? And what's wrong with the stock steel flywheel? Also, are the stock harmonic balancers ok? There are also the fluid type to help maintain balance, right? Dan -----Original Message----- From: dnunn@telus.net <mailto:dnunn@telus.net> <dnunn@telus.net <mailto:dnunn@telus.net> > Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2024 8:28 AM To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Cc: 'MICHAEL DREW' <mikeldrew@aol.com <mailto:mikeldrew@aol.com> >; julian_kift@hotmail.com <mailto:julian_kift@hotmail.com> ; dan@excaliburre.com <mailto:dan@excaliburre.com> Subject: Re: Flywheel material and tooth count? Mike, When I built the engine for 5165 (which now resides in the Jacksonville Sports Car Museum - https://www.jaxsportscarmuseum.com/gallery-1), I wanted it to rev as quickly as possible. Accordingly, I made sure the entire reciprocating assembly was as light at possible. I used a lightweight crank damper, lightened pistons and rods, gun-drilled crank throws, 157 tooth aluminum flywheel and a diaphragm pressure plate with an aluminum friction ring. The engine was internally balanced and had a solid roller cam, T&D shaft rockers, etc. It revved so fast it was difficult to keep off the rev limiter. I had none of the "buck and snort" you mentioned, when driving at low speed. I could easily drive at 2 mph in a parade or in stop and go traffic. Driving on and off a trailer was easy too. In fact, at parking lot speeds, it wasn't much different than when it was stock. This leads me to believe that the "buck and snort" you're describing is a tuning issue that is masked by a heavy flywheel. My 2 cents! Dave ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------- Dan, I was convinced to go for a Fidanza aluminum flywheel, and I think it's too light for the street. Yes, it makes the engine rev faster which is entertaining. But it, coupled with a fairly aggressive cam, makes the car buck and snort when trying to inch along at very low speed. I have to use the clutch and rev the engine far more than one might expect-almost like a smaller-displacement Ferrari. Lori's engine has a stock flywheel and has pleasingly truck-like characteristics at walking pace. An intermediate-weight flywheel would probably be the best bet. Mike Sent from my iPad the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
On Dec 19, 2024, at 18:53, Julian Kift <[9]julian_kift@hotmail.com> wrote:
164 tooth and personally I'd go with a billet steel flywheel for a street performance engine
Julian __________________________________________________________________
From: Dan <[10]dan@excaliburre.com> Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2024 3:44 PM To: [11]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <[12]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: [DeTomaso] Flywheel material and tooth count?
Does anyone know what tooth count for the flywheel? And what is better for a performance street Pantera, steel or aluminum?
Thanks, Dan _______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list -- [13]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To unsubscribe send an email to [14]detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com
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message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. -----Original Message----- From: detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com> <detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com> > Sent: Friday, December 20, 2024 9:01 PM To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 246, Issue 15 Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To subscribe or unsubscribe via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com> You can reach the person managing the list at detomaso-owner@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso-owner@server.detomasolist.com> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..." _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list -- detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To unsubscribe send an email to detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Thanks Jack, I’ll re-read Larry’s reply, as I first read it quickly on my phone. Is there any viable reason to upgrade from the stock harmonic balancer as well? I had an ATI, but it also got misplaced over the years. Dan From: jderyke@aol.com <jderyke@aol.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2024 2:13 PM To: dnunn@telus.net; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com; Dan <dan@excaliburre.com> Cc: 'MICHAEL DREW' <mikeldrew@aol.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Re: Flywheel material and tooth count? As Larry Stock mentioned, a stock gray iron flywheel weighs 35-40 lbs. A n aluminum flywheel weighs 14-15 lbs. A lightened stock or custom steel flywheel weighs somewhere in between. Note that one internally balanced may be a little lighter due to the offset balance weights being removed. Note also that gray iron flywheels are well known to be unsafe above about 5500 rpms- and that was when they were new. YMMV On Tuesday, December 24, 2024 at 12:45:19 PM PST, Dan <[1]dan@excaliburre.com> wrote: I've encountered chattering and such before but it was resolved at Southland Clutch in National City. This was about 15 years ago so I'm not super-clear on how they resolved it but I assume it was a matter of balancing. I believe I brought them the flywheel and clutch assembly. I think that was with a new Centerline billet flywheel. It's looking like the flywheel for The Winged Warrior got lost at a shop so I have to get a replacement. After reading all these helpful tips I'm still undecided between aluminum or steel. The Beast has aluminum and I love how it revs. But that's a full race engine with lightweight rods and "everything", all painstakingly balanced. The last flywheel in The Winged Warrior was billet steel, Centerline I believe. I liked the sound of the backpressure when you let off, but that's a reminder that it's quickly slowing the engine. For a street performance Pantera, maybe 400 hp, either might not make a big difference. Generally, lighter and faster sounds good, so aluminum I guess. What's the main benefit of steel? And what's wrong with the stock steel flywheel? Also, are the stock harmonic balancers ok? There are also the fluid type to help maintain balance, right? Dan -----Original Message----- From: [2]dnunn@telus.net <[3]dnunn@telus.net> Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2024 8:28 AM To: [4]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Cc: 'MICHAEL DREW' <[5]mikeldrew@aol.com>; [6]julian_kift@hotmail.com; [7]dan@excaliburre.com Subject: Re: Flywheel material and tooth count? Mike, When I built the engine for 5165 (which now resides in the Jacksonville Sports Car Museum - [8]https://www.jaxsportscarmuseum.com/gallery-1), I wanted it to rev as quickly as possible. Accordingly, I made sure the entire reciprocating assembly was as light at possible. I used a lightweight crank damper, lightened pistons and rods, gun-drilled crank throws, 157 tooth aluminum flywheel and a diaphragm pressure plate with an aluminum friction ring. The engine was internally balanced and had a solid roller cam, T&D shaft rockers, etc. It revved so fast it was difficult to keep off the rev limiter. I had none of the "buck and snort" you mentioned, when driving at low speed. I could easily drive at 2 mph in a parade or in stop and go traffic. Driving on and off a trailer was easy too. In fact, at parking lot speeds, it wasn't much different than when it was stock. This leads me to believe that the "buck and snort" you're describing is a tuning issue that is masked by a heavy flywheel. My 2 cents! Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- -------------------------------------- Dan, I was convinced to go for a Fidanza aluminum flywheel, and I think it's too light for the street. Yes, it makes the engine rev faster which is entertaining. But it, coupled with a fairly aggressive cam, makes the car buck and snort when trying to inch along at very low speed. I have to use the clutch and rev the engine far more than one might expect-almost like a smaller-displacement Ferrari. Lori's engine has a stock flywheel and has pleasingly truck-like characteristics at walking pace. An intermediate-weight flywheel would probably be the best bet. Mike Sent from my iPad the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. -----Original Message----- From: [15]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com <[16]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2024 9:01 PM To: [17]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 246, Issue 15 Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to [18]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [19]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com You can reach the person managing the list at [20]detomaso-owner@server.detomasolist.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..." _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list -- [21]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To unsubscribe send an email to [22]detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:dan@excaliburre.com 2. mailto:dnunn@telus.net 3. mailto:dnunn@telus.net 4. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 5. mailto:mikeldrew@aol.com 6. mailto:julian_kift@hotmail.com 7. mailto:dan@excaliburre.com 8. https://www.jaxsportscarmuseum.com/gallery-1 9. mailto:julian_kift@hotmail.com 10. mailto:dan@excaliburre.com 11. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 12. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 13. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 14. mailto:detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com 15. mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 16. mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 17. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 18. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 19. mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 20. mailto:detomaso-owner@server.detomasolist.com 21. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 22. mailto:detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com
Again, no expert claims, but I think balancers are under appreciated, much more so on strokers. I broke a crank in the ‘70s in a ‘69 Mustang because I didn’t upgrade the balancer (dampener in internally balanced engines) and a friend with a big horse power stroker Pantera that didn’t have a good enough balancer suffered a broken crankshaft (both at the snout). Richard Austin, Tx Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 24, 2024, at 16:52, Dan <dan@excaliburre.com> wrote:
Thanks Jack, I’ll re-read Larry’s reply, as I first read it quickly on my phone.
Is there any viable reason to upgrade from the stock harmonic balancer as well?
I had an ATI, but it also got misplaced over the years.
Dan
From: jderyke@aol.com <jderyke@aol.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2024 2:13 PM To: dnunn@telus.net; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com; Dan <dan@excaliburre.com> Cc: 'MICHAEL DREW' <mikeldrew@aol.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Re: Flywheel material and tooth count?
As Larry Stock mentioned, a stock gray iron flywheel weighs 35-40 lbs. A n aluminum flywheel weighs 14-15 lbs. A lightened stock or custom steel flywheel weighs somewhere in between. Note that one internally balanced may be a little lighter due to the offset balance weights being removed. Note also that gray iron flywheels are well known to be unsafe above about 5500 rpms- and that was when they were new. YMMV
On Tuesday, December 24, 2024 at 12:45:19 PM PST, Dan <[1]dan@excaliburre.com> wrote:
I've encountered chattering and such before but it was resolved at Southland Clutch in National City. This was about 15 years ago so I'm not super-clear on how they resolved it but I assume it was a matter of balancing. I believe I brought them the flywheel and clutch assembly. I think that was with a new Centerline billet flywheel. It's looking like the flywheel for The Winged Warrior got lost at a shop so I have to get a replacement. After reading all these helpful tips I'm still undecided between aluminum or steel. The Beast has aluminum and I love how it revs. But that's a full race engine with lightweight rods and "everything", all painstakingly balanced. The last flywheel in The Winged Warrior was billet steel, Centerline I believe. I liked the sound of the backpressure when you let off, but that's a reminder that it's quickly slowing the engine. For a street performance Pantera, maybe 400 hp, either might not make a big difference. Generally, lighter and faster sounds good, so aluminum I guess. What's the main benefit of steel? And what's wrong with the stock steel flywheel? Also, are the stock harmonic balancers ok? There are also the fluid type to help maintain balance, right? Dan
On Dec 19, 2024, at 18:53, Julian Kift <[9]julian_kift@hotmail.com> wrote:
164 tooth and personally I'd go with a billet steel flywheel for a street performance engine
Julian __________________________________________________________________
From: Dan <[10]dan@excaliburre.com> Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2024 3:44 PM To: [11]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <[12]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: [DeTomaso] Flywheel material and tooth count?
Does anyone know what tooth count for the flywheel? And what is better for a performance street Pantera, steel or aluminum?
Thanks, Dan _______________________________________________
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-----Original Message----- From: [2]dnunn@telus.net <[3]dnunn@telus.net> Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2024 8:28 AM To: [4]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Cc: 'MICHAEL DREW' <[5]mikeldrew@aol.com>; [6]julian_kift@hotmail.com; [7]dan@excaliburre.com Subject: Re: Flywheel material and tooth count? Mike, When I built the engine for 5165 (which now resides in the Jacksonville Sports Car Museum - [8]https://www.jaxsportscarmuseum.com/gallery-1), I wanted it to rev as quickly as possible. Accordingly, I made sure the entire reciprocating assembly was as light at possible. I used a lightweight crank damper, lightened pistons and rods, gun-drilled crank throws, 157 tooth aluminum flywheel and a diaphragm pressure plate with an aluminum friction ring. The engine was internally balanced and had a solid roller cam, T&D shaft rockers, etc. It revved so fast it was difficult to keep off the rev limiter. I had none of the "buck and snort" you mentioned, when driving at low speed. I could easily drive at 2 mph in a parade or in stop and go traffic. Driving on and off a trailer was easy too. In fact, at parking lot speeds, it wasn't much different than when it was stock. This leads me to believe that the "buck and snort" you're describing is a tuning issue that is masked by a heavy flywheel. My 2 cents! Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- -------------------------------------- Dan, I was convinced to go for a Fidanza aluminum flywheel, and I think it's too light for the street. Yes, it makes the engine rev faster which is entertaining. But it, coupled with a fairly aggressive cam, makes the car buck and snort when trying to inch along at very low speed. I have to use the clutch and rev the engine far more than one might expect-almost like a smaller-displacement Ferrari. Lori's engine has a stock flywheel and has pleasingly truck-like characteristics at walking pace. An intermediate-weight flywheel would probably be the best bet. Mike Sent from my iPad the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. -----Original Message----- From: [15]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com <[16]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2024 9:01 PM To: [17]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 246, Issue 15 Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to [18]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [19]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com You can reach the person managing the list at [20]detomaso-owner@server.detomasolist.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..." _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list -- [21]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To unsubscribe send an email to [22]detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
References
1. mailto:dan@excaliburre.com 2. mailto:dnunn@telus.net 3. mailto:dnunn@telus.net 4. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 5. mailto:mikeldrew@aol.com 6. mailto:julian_kift@hotmail.com 7. mailto:dan@excaliburre.com 8. https://www.jaxsportscarmuseum.com/gallery-1 9. mailto:julian_kift@hotmail.com 10. mailto:dan@excaliburre.com 11. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 12. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 13. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 14. mailto:detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com 15. mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 16. mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 17. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 18. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 19. mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 20. mailto:detomaso-owner@server.detomasolist.com 21. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 22. mailto:detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com _______________________________________________
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I don’t claim to be an expert on this topic. With that said, I don’t think clutch chatter and bucking are the same thing or caused by the same conditions, therefore not solved with the same corrections. I have a 408 stroker making 520 hp and 505 ft lbs of torque. Ford Motorsport aluminum dual plane intake (square bore version of the OE manifold) with a Holley Terminator X Stealth EFI sitting on top of it with spark controlled by a Holley DualSync distributor. The balancer is an Innovators West, at the other end is a McLeod aluminum flywheel. The engine is internally balanced. My car doesn’t buck and I don’t need to use much if any additional throttle to pull away from a stop. It may very well be attributable to the spark controlled EFI. Richard Austin, TX Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 24, 2024, at 14:45, Dan <dan@excaliburre.com> wrote:
I've encountered chattering and such before but it was resolved at Southland Clutch in National City. This was about 15 years ago so I'm not super-clear on how they resolved it but I assume it was a matter of balancing. I believe I brought them the flywheel and clutch assembly. I think that was with a new Centerline billet flywheel.
It's looking like the flywheel for The Winged Warrior got lost at a shop so I have to get a replacement. After reading all these helpful tips I'm still undecided between aluminum or steel. The Beast has aluminum and I love how it revs. But that's a full race engine with lightweight rods and "everything", all painstakingly balanced.
The last flywheel in The Winged Warrior was billet steel, Centerline I believe. I liked the sound of the backpressure when you let off, but that's a reminder that it's quickly slowing the engine.
For a street performance Pantera, maybe 400 hp, either might not make a big difference. Generally, lighter and faster sounds good, so aluminum I guess. What's the main benefit of steel? And what's wrong with the stock steel flywheel?
Also, are the stock harmonic balancers ok? There are also the fluid type to help maintain balance, right?
Dan
-----Original Message----- From: dnunn@telus.net <dnunn@telus.net> Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2024 8:28 AM To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Cc: 'MICHAEL DREW' <mikeldrew@aol.com>; julian_kift@hotmail.com; dan@excaliburre.com Subject: Re: Flywheel material and tooth count?
Mike,
When I built the engine for 5165 (which now resides in the Jacksonville Sports Car Museum - https://www.jaxsportscarmuseum.com/gallery-1), I wanted it to rev as quickly as possible. Accordingly, I made sure the entire reciprocating assembly was as light at possible. I used a lightweight crank damper, lightened pistons and rods, gun-drilled crank throws, 157 tooth aluminum flywheel and a diaphragm pressure plate with an aluminum friction ring. The engine was internally balanced and had a solid roller cam, T&D shaft rockers, etc. It revved so fast it was difficult to keep off the rev limiter. I had none of the "buck and snort" you mentioned, when driving at low speed. I could easily drive at 2 mph in a parade or in stop and go traffic. Driving on and off a trailer was easy too. In fact, at parking lot speeds, it wasn't much different than when it was stock. This leads me to believe that the "buck and snort" you're describing is a tuning issue that is masked by a heavy flywheel.
My 2 cents!
Dave
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------
Dan,
I was convinced to go for a Fidanza aluminum flywheel, and I think it's too light for the street.
Yes, it makes the engine rev faster which is entertaining. But it, coupled with a fairly aggressive cam, makes the car buck and snort when trying to inch along at very low speed. I have to use the clutch and rev the engine far more than one might expect-almost like a smaller-displacement Ferrari. Lori's engine has a stock flywheel and has pleasingly truck-like characteristics at walking pace.
An intermediate-weight flywheel would probably be the best bet.
Mike
Sent from my iPad
On Dec 19, 2024, at 18:53, Julian Kift <julian_kift@hotmail.com> wrote:
164 tooth and personally I'd go with a billet steel flywheel for a street performance engine
Julian __________________________________________________________________
From: Dan <dan@excaliburre.com> Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2024 3:44 PM To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: [DeTomaso] Flywheel material and tooth count?
Does anyone know what tooth count for the flywheel? And what is better for a performance street Pantera, steel or aluminum?
Thanks, Dan _______________________________________________
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participants (9)
-
Dan -
Dave Londry -
dnunn＠telus.net -
gudmundfroiland -
jderyke＠aol.com -
Julian Kift -
Ken Green -
rfmccall＠comcast.net -
Richard Greenblum