Re: [DeTomaso] 351C Engine Weight Savings
LSJ asked:
Has anyone compiled a list of stock and aftermarket engine component weights?
Has anyone compiled a list of stock and aftermarket engine component weights? Jack Deryke has done that a couple of times relative to the work he has done in
Jack Deryke has done that a couple of times relative to the work he has done in lightening his car. The info has been sent to the list a couple of times and also included in the monthly mag. Not exhaustive but he also included other components of the car than just the engine. I want to remember he was working on a Fontana aluminum block based engine at one time, there's a few of those on the list too whose owners are relatively quiet. :^) --michael cox LSJ asked: lightening his car. The info has been sent to the list a couple of times and also included in the monthly mag. Not exhaustive but he also included other components of the car than just the engine. I want to remember he was working on a Fontana aluminum block based engine at one time, there's a few of those on the list too whose owners are relatively quiet. :^) --michael cox
I believe that a bare 9.2 deck Fontana aluminum block weighs 116 pounds according to Jack Deryke. I didn't take the time to weigh mine before the engine was built, but a bare Fontana block is very light.
A bare stock block isn¹t heavy. I weighed mine. I believe it was something like 162 lbs. That¹s obviously more than an aluminum block, but I doubt you¹d notice it with the seat-of-the-pants dyno. On 9/20/16, 9:14 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of JFFR" <detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com on behalf of pantera@vtc.net> wrote:
I believe that a bare 9.2 deck Fontana aluminum block weighs 116 pounds according to Jack Deryke. I didn't take the time to weigh mine before the engine was built, but a bare Fontana block is very light.
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Will, thank you for the stock block weight. So there is an approx. 46 lbs reduction for the aluminum block.70 lbs for Al heads?20-30 lbs for Al intake? Maybe another 30lbs saved with Al water pump, Al timing cover, smaller Al air cleaner, switch to headers, Al valve covers, etc. Maybe more? We're getting to 200lbs pretty quickly. Swap to a Lithium battery (minus 35lbs), one piece race seats (minus 40 lbs), and back to Magnesium wheels (minus 40lbs) and there is probably a lot more that can be done without really being noticeable (except the seats)? Is there potentially 300lbs that can be taken out of an otherwise completely stock looking Pantera? LSJ central wines-spirits est 1934 625 e street nw washington, dc 20004 centralwines.com facebook.com/CentralLiquors 202-737-2800 From: Will Kooiman <will.kooiman@gmail.com> To: JFFR <pantera@vtc.net>; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 11:14 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] 351C Engine Weight Savings A bare stock block isn¹t heavy. I weighed mine. I believe it was something like 162 lbs. That¹s obviously more than an aluminum block, but I doubt you¹d notice it with the seat-of-the-pants dyno. On 9/20/16, 9:14 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of JFFR" <detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com on behalf of pantera@vtc.net> wrote:
I believe that a bare 9.2 deck Fontana aluminum block weighs 116 pounds according to Jack Deryke. I didn't take the time to weigh mine before the engine was built, but a bare Fontana block is very light.
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I believe that a bare 9.2 deck Fontana aluminum block weighs 116
according to Jack Deryke. I didn't take the time to weigh mine before the engine was built, but a bare Fontana block is very light.
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_______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Will, thank you for the stock block weight. So there is an approx. 46 lbs reduction for the aluminum block. 70 lbs for Al heads? 20-30 lbs for Al intake? Maybe another 30lbs saved with Al water pump, Al timing cover, smaller Al air cleaner, switch to headers, Al valve covers, etc. Maybe more? We're getting to 200lbs pretty quickly. Swap to a Lithium battery (minus 35lbs), one piece race seats (minus 40 lbs), and back to Magnesium wheels (minus 40lbs) and there is probably a lot more that can be done without really being noticeable (except the seats)? Is there potentially 300lbs that can be taken out of an otherwise completely stock looking Pantera? LSJ central wines-spirits est 1934 625 e street nw washington, dc 20004 [1]centralwines.com [2]facebook.com/CentralLiquors 202-737-2800 __________________________________________________________________ From: Will Kooiman <will.kooiman@gmail.com> To: JFFR <pantera@vtc.net>; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 11:14 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] 351C Engine Weight Savings A bare stock block isnA^1t heavy. I weighed mine. I believe it was something like 162 lbs. ThatA^1s obviously more than an aluminum block, but I doubt youA^1d notice it with the seat-of-the-pants dyno. On 9/20/16, 9:14 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of JFFR" <[3]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com on behalf of [4]pantera@vtc.net> wrote: pounds list.
They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [7]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [8]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. http://centralwines.com/ 2. http://facebook.com/CentralLiquors 3. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 4. mailto:pantera@vtc.net 5. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 6. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 7. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 8. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
/A bare stock block isn¹t heavy. I weighed mine. I believe it was something like 162 lbs. That¹s obviously more than an aluminum block, but I doubt you¹d notice it with the seat-of-the-pants dyno. /I agree that saving about 45 pounds over a stock cast iron block isn't a big deal, but my reason for using the Fontana block was that my original block was already bored .030 over. The Fontana was bored .060 over and going to .125 over if I ever decide to do something different won't be a problem. There are also a number of other reasons that I wanted to get away from the Cleveland block, but that was just my choice and opinion. A bare stock block isn^1t heavy. I weighed mine. I believe it was something like 162 lbs. That^1s obviously more than an aluminum block, but I doubt you^1d notice it with the seat-of-the-pants dyno. I agree that saving about 45 pounds over a stock cast iron block isn't a big deal, but my reason for using the Fontana block was that my original block was already bored .030 over. The Fontana was bored .060 over and going to .125 over if I ever decide to do something different won't be a problem. There are also a number of other reasons that I wanted to get away from the Cleveland block, but that was just my choice and opinion.
You can also reduce engine weight with an aluminum fly wheel, however I don't know how much it would be. I also know that you can switch a "L" model to fiberglass front and rear bumpers for a weight savings over the stock bumpers.
I think someone else already said this,... Jack did an excellent analysis of weight savings. It's a lot harder than you would think. Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 22, 2016, at 12:56 PM, LSJ <lashdeep@yahoo.com> wrote:
Will, thank you for the stock block weight.
So there is an approx. 46 lbs reduction for the aluminum block. 70 lbs for Al heads? 20-30 lbs for Al intake?
Maybe another 30lbs saved with Al water pump, Al timing cover, smaller Al air cleaner, switch to headers, Al valve covers, etc.
Maybe more?
We're getting to 200lbs pretty quickly.
Swap to a Lithium battery (minus 35lbs), one piece race seats (minus 40 lbs), and back to Magnesium wheels (minus 40lbs) and there is probably a lot more that can be done without really being noticeable (except the seats)?
Is there potentially 300lbs that can be taken out of an otherwise completely stock looking Pantera?
LSJ
central wines-spirits est 1934
625 e street nw washington, dc 20004
centralwines.com
facebook.com/CentralLiquors
202-737-2800
From: Will Kooiman <will.kooiman@gmail.com> To: JFFR <pantera@vtc.net>; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 11:14 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] 351C Engine Weight Savings
A bare stock block isn¹t heavy.
I weighed mine. I believe it was something like 162 lbs.
That¹s obviously more than an aluminum block, but I doubt you¹d notice it with the seat-of-the-pants dyno.
On 9/20/16, 9:14 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of JFFR" <detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com on behalf of pantera@vtc.net> wrote:
I believe that a bare 9.2 deck Fontana aluminum block weighs 116 pounds according to Jack Deryke. I didn't take the time to weigh mine before the engine was built, but a bare Fontana block is very light.
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I believe that a bare 9.2 deck Fontana aluminum block weighs 116
according to Jack Deryke. I didn't take the time to weigh mine before the engine was built, but a bare Fontana block is very light.
_______________________________________________
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I think someone else already said this,... Jack did an excellent analysis of weight savings. It's a lot harder than you would think. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 22, 2016, at 12:56 PM, LSJ <[1]lashdeep@yahoo.com> wrote: Will, thank you for the stock block weight. So there is an approx. 46 lbs reduction for the aluminum block. 70 lbs for Al heads? 20-30 lbs for Al intake? Maybe another 30lbs saved with Al water pump, Al timing cover, smaller Al air cleaner, switch to headers, Al valve covers, etc. Maybe more? We're getting to 200lbs pretty quickly. Swap to a Lithium battery (minus 35lbs), one piece race seats (minus 40 lbs), and back to Magnesium wheels (minus 40lbs) and there is probably a lot more that can be done without really being noticeable (except the seats)? Is there potentially 300lbs that can be taken out of an otherwise completely stock looking Pantera? LSJ central wines-spirits est 1934 625 e street nw washington, dc 20004 [2]centralwines.com [3]facebook.com/CentralLiquors 202-737-2800 __________________________________________________________________ From: Will Kooiman <[4]will.kooiman@gmail.com> To: JFFR <[5]pantera@vtc.net>; [6]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 11:14 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] 351C Engine Weight Savings A bare stock block isn^1t heavy. I weighed mine. I believe it was something like 162 lbs. That^1s obviously more than an aluminum block, but I doubt you^1d notice it with the seat-of-the-pants dyno. On 9/20/16, 9:14 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of JFFR" <[7]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com on behalf of [8]pantera@vtc.net> wrote: pounds list.
They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [11]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [12]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:lashdeep@yahoo.com 2. http://centralwines.com/ 3. http://facebook.com/CentralLiquors 4. mailto:will.kooiman@gmail.com 5. mailto:pantera@vtc.net 6. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 7. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 8. mailto:pantera@vtc.net 9. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 10. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 11. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 12. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
For me, I KNOW of at least 40 completely useless pounds, but like said, are extremely difficult to get rid of. Reducing from a 38 back to a 32 inch belt. "ba dum tss!" -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Will Kooiman Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 13:09 PM To: LSJ Cc: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com; JFFR Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] 351C Engine Weight Savings I think someone else already said this,... It's a lot harder than you would think.
Great point! Is Jack's list available somewhere online? Thanks, LSJ central wines-spirits est 1934 625 e street nw washington, dc 20004 centralwines.com facebook.com/CentralLiquors 202-737-2800 From: "Joseph F. Byrd, Jr." <byrdjf@embarqmail.com> To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 1:27 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] 351C Engine Weight Savings For me, I KNOW of at least 40 completely useless pounds, but like said, are extremely difficult to get rid of. Reducing from a 38 back to a 32 inch belt. "ba dum tss!" -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Will Kooiman Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 13:09 PM To: LSJ Cc: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com; JFFR Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] 351C Engine Weight Savings I think someone else already said this,... It's a lot harder than you would think. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Great point! Is Jack's list available somewhere online? Thanks, LSJ central wines-spirits est 1934 625 e street nw washington, dc 20004 [1]centralwines.com [2]facebook.com/CentralLiquors 202-737-2800 __________________________________________________________________ From: "Joseph F. Byrd, Jr." <byrdjf@embarqmail.com> To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 1:27 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] 351C Engine Weight Savings For me, I KNOW of at least 40 completely useless pounds, but like said, are extremely difficult to get rid of. Reducing from a 38 back to a 32 inch belt. "ba dum tss!" -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:[3]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Will Kooiman Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 13:09 PM To: LSJ Cc: [4]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com; JFFR Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] 351C Engine Weight Savings I think someone else already said this,... It's a lot harder than you would think. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [5]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [6]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. http://centralwines.com/ 2. http://facebook.com/CentralLiquors 3. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 4. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 5. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 6. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
I started a section both for the engine, and the whole car, bolt by bolt... but go no (zilch) input! There is just what I started with... Chuck Great point! Is Jack's list available somewhere online? Thanks, LSJ central wines-spirits est 1934 625 e street nw washington, dc 20004 centralwines.com facebook.com/CentralLiquors 202-737-2800 From: "Joseph F. Byrd, Jr." <byrdjf@embarqmail.com> To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 1:27 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] 351C Engine Weight Savings For me, I KNOW of at least 40 completely useless pounds, but like said, are extremely difficult to get rid of. Reducing from a 38 back to a 32 inch belt. "ba dum tss!" -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Will Kooiman Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 13:09 PM To: LSJ Cc: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com; JFFR Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] 351C Engine Weight Savings I think someone else already said this,... It's a lot harder than you would think. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
Is that section still online, if so, could you provide link? -----Original Message----- From: The DeTomaso Registry Guy [mailto:detomasoregistry@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, September 30, 2016 13:56 PM To: 'LSJ'; 'Joseph F. Byrd, Jr.' Cc: DeTomaso List Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] 351C Engine Weight Savings I started a section both for the engine, and the whole car, bolt by bolt... but go no (zilch) input! There is just what I started with... Chuck
participants (6)
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JFFR -
Joseph F. Byrd, Jr. -
LSJ -
Michael Cox -
The DeTomaso Registry Guy -
Will Kooiman