Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It doesn't go to the swirl tank)
There is definitely a mod that sucks air from both the swirl tank, and the top of the radiator into the expansion tank. The expansion tank is under suction, and this causes any trapped air to bleed to the expansion tank. I did this on my car. I believe that it does its job, especially of removing any trapped air from the radiator. I had to run a new, separate metal hard line down the length of the car from near the front of the radiator, all the way back up the bulkhead past the electrics panel, to near the expansion tank. Here are pictures of my tanks with the appropriate bleed fittings installed. Chuck I think Joe was just joking - His Coriolis post confused me... -----Original Message----- From: Owen Cooke [mailto:owen@tadhgcooke.com] Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 5:45 AM To: Julian Kift; Guido deTomaso; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank, was Re: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 147, Issue 19 Julian yes you could be right i need to check it all again owen cooke On 22/09/2016 13:34, Julian Kift wrote:
I think typically the factory chassis holes between the coolant tubes you refer to carries the steel pipe that runs the vacuum brake booster to engine vacuum.
Julian
------------------------------------------------------------------------ *From:* DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of Owen Cooke <owen@tadhgcooke.com> *Sent:* Thursday, September 22, 2016 2:51 AM *To:* Guido deTomaso; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com *Subject:* Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank, was Re: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 147, Issue 19 OK i may have stated this incorrectly
there is a steel pipe running from the top of the rad back to the engine and i forget exactly where is ends in the engine bay
but this was clearly a factory installation as the chassis pieces had nicely flared hole and grommets lying between the two main steel pipes and the chassis pieces it runs through were clearly in the original steel pressing
so this was not an after market fitting
i will check on exactly where in the engine bay the pipes are going - i only guesses the swirl tank
owen cooke
On 21/09/2016 22:37, Guido deTomaso wrote:
"but my car had bleed pipe from the rad back to the swirl tank"
I'm kinda fascinated by this mod, which I believe is in the TSB's, connecting the top of the radiator to the swirl tank with a long hose. Not sure how it works or what it was supposed to do.
With a completely dry system, I can visualise how it would allow the radiator to fill completely, as air formerly trapped in the top of the radiator would have a path back to the swirl tank, a higher point.
But once the engine is started, water or air is going to move from the swirl tank to the radiator, because of pressure difference. Not sure this is helpful but maybe isn't harmful.
Most difficult to visualize, if the engine is off and there is air in the radiator, can the weight / head / row gee aych of the water in the swirl tank push the air into the swirl tank ? Is there some Archimedes rule I'm not seeing here ?
Also did any cars come from the factory this way, was there an official path and mounting systems for the hose ? Cable ties ?
Thanks,
Guy D.
------------------------------------------------------------------------ *From:* Owen Cooke <owen@tadhgcooke.com> *To:* detomaso@server.detomasolist.com *Sent:* Saturday, September 17, 2016 2:19 AM *Subject:* Re: [DeTomaso] DeTomaso Digest, Vol 147, Issue 19
guys
i had overheating problems
i put in a new hall brass rad but my car had bleed pipe from the rad back to the swirl tank and no fitting in halls rad for it apart from a top bleed screw
so i made a junction to fit the original bleed screw and the bleed pipe to it
then new mariah (is that the right name) that fir on the stock brackets and wired them directly from the battery to the relays
i found the hole under the thermostat was blocked with solder
i removed that and fitted a new stat
now all is perfect temp wise - warms up steady and holds the 90c or 195f in all conditions
my gauge with sender in block beside the pump/stat ready 150f but its steady and i know what to expect
very happy with result
owen cooke
On 16/09/2016 23:31, detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
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Daily Detomaso List Digest
Today's Topics:
1. Fans and shroud (Jack Donahue) 2. Re: Fans and shroud (Himes, Terry (397C)) 3. Tires for Grp IV Flared Car (MyCars) 4. Re: Tires for Grp IV Flared Car (LSJ) 5. Re: Fans and shroud (Jack Donahue) 6. Re: Fans and shroud (Jack Donahue) 7. Re: Fans and shroud (Larry Stock) 8. McLeod hydraulic throw out (Cullen McCann) 9. Re: Fans and shroud (Ken Green) 10. McLeod hydraulic throw out (Larry Finch) 11. Re: Tires for Grp IV Flared Car (MyCars) 12. Re: Tires for Grp IV Flared Car (MyCars) 13. Re: McLeod hydraulic throw out (Will Kooiman) 14. Re: McLeod hydraulic throw out (Cullen McCann) 15. Re: McLeod hydraulic throw out (Larry Stock) 16. Re: Sanden Compressors noises (Mike Drew) 17. Re: Sanden Compressors noises (Julian Kift) 18. Re: Sanden Compressors noises (Mike Drew) 19. Re: McLeod hydraulic throw out (Larry Finch) 20. Re: McLeod hydraulic throw out (Cullen McCann) 21. NPC, Need transmission suggestions (michael frazier) 22. Re: Sanden Compressors noises (David Nunn) 23. Re: NPC, Need transmission suggestions (bill) 24. Re: Sanden Compressors noises (bill)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2016 09:29:46 -0700 From: Jack Donahue <demongusta@gmail.com
<mailto:demongusta@gmail.com>>
To: "detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>> Cc: "detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Fans and shroud Message-ID: <CF682A66-9CF9-422E-AD65-2D23A9ABE4BC@gmail.com <mailto:CF682A66-9CF9-422E-AD65-2D23A9ABE4BC@gmail.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hey all - A few weeks ago I was talking asking The List about radiators - all said-and-done, I decided on the Hall radiator, since I wanted brass/copper instead of aluminum. And, yes Mike Drew, I have to admit it?s because I want to, not necessarily NEED to. It ain?t broke, but I am fixing it(?). Didn?t want to admit that, but...Lol. There really is an ulterior motive, but I just don?t want to mention it right now; but I ran my idea past Brassworks - who says they will ?build-to-suit? - but the Hall unit looks to be ?tried-and-proven?. Now - fans. I really don?t know the brand name of my fans, but they are suckers - about 12? diameter - and the blades are ?curved? - sickle-shaped. The names that been bouncing around are Mariah, SPAL, and Flex-a-lite. I had read someone?s post about the Flex-a-lite?s since they said they can be - or are - mounted in a shroud that is a perfect match for the Pantera radiator size. I think. And someone offered-up a part number, but I deleted (or lost) it. All normal for me. So - I am ready for opinions/suggestions: jack #4348
------------------------------
Message: 2 Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2016 16:54:05 +0000 From: "Himes, Terry (397C)" <terry.himes@jpl.nasa.gov <mailto:terry.himes@jpl.nasa.gov>> To: Jack Donahue <demongusta@gmail.com <mailto:demongusta@gmail.com>>, "detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Fans and shroud Message-ID: <D4016E9F.92F3B%thimes@jpl.nasa.gov <mailto:thimes@jpl.nasa.gov>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Jack,
Good stuff. I too am running the original radiator with new fans. I'm not going to change it now but I will follow your progress. Someday I will have to deal with it. So keep posting and I will keep saving the responses. ;-)
Terry
"A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan, stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!"
Terry W. Himes JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory Dawn Spacecraft Team Rosetta Sequence Team Lead Phone: (818) 393-6261 Cell: (818) 653-8213 Fax: (818) 393-3147 thimes@jpl.nasa.gov <mailto:thimes@jpl.nasa.gov><mailto:thimes@jpl.nasa.gov <mailto:thimes@jpl.nasa.gov>> ??
From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com
<mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com><mailto:detomaso-bounces@se rver.detomasolist.com
<mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com>>> on behalf of Jack Donahue <demongusta@gmail.com <mailto:demongusta@gmail.com><mailto:demongusta@gmail.com <mailto:demongusta@gmail.com>>>
Date: Friday, September 16, 2016 9:29 AM To: "detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com><mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolis t.com
<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>>" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com><mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolis t.com
<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>>>
Cc: "detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com><mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolis t.com
<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>>" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com><mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolis t.com
Subject: [DeTomaso] Fans and shroud
Hey all - A few weeks ago I was talking asking The List about radiators - all said-and-done, I decided on the Hall radiator, since I wanted brass/copper instead of aluminum. And, yes Mike Drew, I have to admit it?s because I want to, not necessarily NEED to. It ain?t broke, but I am fixing it(?). Didn?t want to admit that, but...Lol. There really is an ulterior motive, but I just don?t want to mention it right now; but I ran my idea past Brassworks - who says they will ?build-to-suit? - but the Hall unit looks to be ?tried-and-proven?. Now - fans. I really don?t know the brand name of my fans, but they are suckers - about 12? diameter - and the blades are ?curved? - sickle-shaped. The names that been bouncing around are Mariah, SPAL, and Flex-a-lite. I had read someone?s post about the Flex-a-lite?s since they said they can be - or are - mounted in a shroud that is a
<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>>> perfect match for the Pantera radiator size. I think. And someone offered-up a part number, but I deleted (or lost) it. All normal for me.
So - I am ready for opinions/suggestions: jack #4348 _______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com
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Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
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My ¹74 came with that hard line running through the chassis ext to the vauum line with rubber hoses running to the top of the radiator in the front and to the pressure tank at the rear. It was in fact designed to remove air from the top of the radiator. Richard Austin, TX From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of Chuck and Linda Huber <lindahuber@cox.net> Date: Thursday, September 22, 2016 at 9:27 To: <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (Itdoesn't go to the swirl tank) There is definitely a mod that sucks air from both the swirl tank, and the top of the radiator into the expansion tank. The expansion tank is under suction, and this causes any trapped air to bleed to the expansion tank. I did this on my car. I believe that it does its job, especially of removing any trapped air rom the radiator. I had to run a new, separate metal hard line down the length of the car from near the front of the radiator, all the way back up the bulkhead past the electrics panel, to near the expansion tank. Here are pictures of my tanks with the appropriate bleed fittings installed. Chuck I think Joe was just joking - His Coriolis post confused me... -----Original Message----- From: Owen Cooke [mailto:owen@tadhgcooke.com] Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 5:45 AM To: Julian Kift; Guido deTomaso; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank, was Re: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 147, Issue 19 Julian yes you could be right i need to check it all again owen cooke On 22/09/2016 13:34, Julian Kift wrote:
I think typically the factory chassis holes between the coolant tubes you refer to carries the steel pipe that runs the vacuum brake booster to engine vacuum.
Julian
------------------------------------------------------------------------ *From:* DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces@server.detomsolist.com> on behalf of Owen Cooke <owen@tadhgcooke.com> *Sent:* Thursday, September 22, 2016 2:51 AM *To:* Guido deTomaso; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com *Subject:* Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swir tank, was Re: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 147, Issue 19 OK i may have stated this incorrectly
there is a steel pipe running from the top of the rad back to the engine and i forget exactly where is ends in the engine bay
but this was clearly a factory installation as the chassis pieces had nicely flared hole and grommets lying between the two main steel pipes and the chassis pieces it runs through were clearly in the original steel pressing
so this was not an after market fitting
i will check on exactly where in the engine bay the pipes are going - i only guesses the swirl tank
owen cooke
On 21/09/2016 22:37, Guido deTomaso wote:
"but my car had bleed pipe from the rad back to the swirl tank"
I'm kinda fascinated by this mod, which I believe is in the TSB's, connecting the top of the radiator to the swirl tank with a long hose. Not sure how it works or what it was supposed to do.
With a completely dry system, I can visualise how it would allow the radiator to fill completely, as air formerly trapped in the top of the radiator would have a path back to the swirl tank, a higher point.
But once the engine is started, water or air is going to move from the swirl tank to the radiator, because of pressure difference. Not sure this is helpful but maybe isn't harmful.
Most dificult to visualize, if the engine is off and there is air in the radiator, can the weigh / head / row gee aych of the water in the swirl tank push the air into the swirl tank ? Is there some Archimedes rule I'm not seeing here ?
Also did any cars come from the factory this way, was there an official path and mounting systems for the hose ? Cable ties ?
Thanks,
Guy D.
------------------------------------------------------------------------ *From:* Owen Cooke <owen@tadhgcooke.com> *To:* detomaso@server.detomasolist.com *Sent:* Saturday, September 17, 2016 2:19 AM *Subject:* e: [DeTomaso] DeTomaso Digest, Vol 147, Issue 19
guys
i had overheatng problems
i put in a new hall brass rad but my car had bleed ipe from the rad back to the swirl tank and no fitting in halls rad for it apart from a top bleed screw
so i made a junction to fit the original bleed screw and the bleed pipe to it
then new mariah (is that the right name) that fir on the stock brackets
and wired them directly from the battery to the relays
i found the hole under the thermostat was blocked with solder
i removed that and fitted a new stat
now all is perfect temp wise - warms up steady and holds the 90c or 195f in all conditions
my gauge with sender in block beside the pump/stat ready 150f but its steady and i know what to expect
very happy with result
owen cooke
Sen DeTomaso mailing list submissions to detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com>
You can reach the person managing the list at detomaso-owner@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso-owner@server.detomasolist.com>
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of DeTomao digest..."
Daily Detomaso List Digest
Today's Topics:
1. Fans and shroud (Jack Donahue)
2. Re: Fans and shroud (Himes, Terry (397C)) 3. Tires for Grp IV Flared Car (MyCars) 4. Re: Tires for Grp IV Flared Car (LSJ) 5. Re: Fans and shroud (Jack Donahue) 6. Re: Fans and shroud (Jack Donahue) 7. Re: Fans and shroud (Larry Stock) 8. McLeod hydraulic throw out (Cullen McCann) 9. Re: Fans and shroud (Ken Green) 10. McLeod hydraulic throw out (Larry Finch) 11. Re: Tires for Grp IV Flared Car (MyCar) 12. Re: Tires for Grp IV Flared Car (MyCars) 13. Re: McLeod hydraulic throw out (Will Kooiman) 14. Re: McLeod hydraulic throw out (Cullen McCann) 15. Re: McLod hydraulic throw out (Larry Stock) 16. Re: Sanden Compressors noises (Mike Drew) 7. Re: Sanden Compressors noises (Julian Kift) 18. Re: Sanden Compressors noises (Mike Drew) 19. Re: McLeod hydraulic throw out (Larry Finch) 20. Re: McLeod hydraulic throw out (Cullen McCann) 21. NPC, Need transmission suggestions (michael frazier) 22. Re: Sanden Compressors noises (David Nunn) 23. Re: NPC, Need transmission suggestions (bill) 24. Re: Sanden Compressors noises (bill)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2016 09:29:46 -0700 From: Jack onahue <demongusta@gmail.com <mailto:demongusta@gmail.com>> To: "detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolis.com>" <detoaso@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>> Cc: "detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>> Subject [DeTomaso] Fans and shroud Message-ID: <CF682A66-9CF9-422E-AD65-2D23A9ABE4BC@gmail.com <mailto:CF682A66-9C9-422E-AD65-2D23A9ABE4BC@gmail.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hey all -A few weeks go I was talking asking The List about radiators - all said-and-done, I decidd on the Hal radiator, since I wanted brass/copper instead of aluminum. And, yes Mike Drew, I have to admit it?s because I want to, not necessarily NEED to. It ain?t broke, but I am fixing it(?). Didn?t want to admit that, but...Lol. There really is an ulterior motive, but I jst don?t want to mention it right now; but I ran my idea past Brassworks - who says they will ?build-to-suit? - but the Hall unit looks to be ?tried-and-proven?. Now - fans. I realy don?t know the brand name of my fans, but they are suckers - about 12? diameter - and the blades are ?curved? - sickle-shaped. The names that been bouncingaround are Mariah, SPAL, and Flex-a-lite. I had read someone?s post about the Flex-a-lite?s since they said they can be - or are - mounted in a shroud that is a
On 16/09/2016 23:31, detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com> wrote: perfect match for the Pantera radiator size. I think. And someone ofered-up a part number, but I deleted (or lost) it. All normal for me.
So - I am ready for opinions/suggestions: jack #4348
------------------------------
Message: 2 Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2016 16:54:05 +0000 From: "Himes, Terry (397C)" <terry.himes@jpl.nasa.gov <mailto:terry.himes@jpl.nasa.gov>> To: Jack Donahue <demongusta@gmal.com <mailto:demongusta@gmail.com>>, "detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>" <detomaso@server.detomasolit.com <mailto:detomaso@sever.detomasolist.com>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso Fans and shroud Message-ID: <D4016E9F.9F3B%thimes@jpl.nasa.gov <mailto:thimes@jpl.nasa.gov>> Content-Tpe: text/plain; charset"utf-8"
Jack,
Good stuff. I too am running the original radiator with new fans. I'm not going to change it now but I will follow your progress. Someday I will have to deal with it. So keep posting and I will keep saving the responses. ;-)
Terry
"A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan, stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!"
Terry W. Himes JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory Dawn Spacecraft Team Rosetta Sequence Team Lead Phone: (818) 393-6261 Cell: (818) 653-8213 Fax: (818) 393-3147 thimes@jpl.nasa.gov <mailto:thimes@jpl.nasa.gov><mailto:thimes@jpl.nasa.gov <mailto:thimes@jpl.nasa.gov>> ??
From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolistcom
<mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com><mailto:detomaso-bounces@se rver.detomasolist.com
<mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com>>> on behalf of Jack Donahue <demongusta@gmail.com <mailto:demongusta@gmail.com><mailto:demongusta@gmail.com <mailto:demongusta@gmail.com>>>
Date: Friday, September 16, 2016 9:29 AM To: "detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com><mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolis t.com
<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>>" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com><mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolis t.com
<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>>>
Cc: "detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com><mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolis t.com
<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>>" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com><mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolis t.com
Subject: [DeTomaso] Fans and shroud
Hey all - A few weeks ago I was talking asking The List about radiators - all said-and-done, I decided on the Hall radiator, since I wanted brass/copper instead of aluminum. And, yes Mike Drew, I have to admit it?s because I want to, not necessarily NEED to. It ain?t broke, but I am fixing it(?). idn?t want to admit that, but...Lol. There really is an ulterior motive, but I just don?t want to mention it right now; but I ran my idea past Brassworks - who says they will ?build-to-suit? - but the Hall unit looks to be ?tried-and-proven?. Now - fans. I really don?t know the brand name of my fans, but they are suckers - about 12? diameter - and the blades are ?curved? - sickle-shaped. The names that been bouncing around are Marah, SPAL, and Flex-a-lite. I had read someone?s post about the Flex-a-lite?s since they said they can be - or are - mounted in a shroud that is a
<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>>> perfect match for the Pantera radiator size. I think. And someone offered-up a part number, but I deleted (or lost) it. All normal for me.
So - I am ready for opinions/suggestions: jack #4348 _______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com
<mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com><mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolis t.com
http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
<mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com>> list. They also rant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
My '74 came with that hard line running through the chassis next to the vacuum line with rubber hoses running to the top of the radiator in the front and to the pressure tank at the rear. It was in fact designed to remove air from the top of the radiator. Richard Austin, TX From: DeTomaso <[1]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of Chuck and Linda Huber <[2]lindahuber@cox.net> Date: Thursday, September 22, 2016 at 9:27 To: <[3]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It doesn't go to the swirl tank) There is definitely a mod that sucks air from both the swirl tank, and the top of the radiator into the expansion tank. The expansion tank is under suction, and this causes any trapped air to bleed to the expansion tank. I did this on my car. I believe that it does its job, especially of removing any trapped air from the radiator. I had to run a new, separate metal hard line down the length of the car from near the front of the radiator, all the way back up the bulkhead past the electrics panel, to near the expansion tank. Here are pictures of my tanks with the appropriate bleed fittings installed. Chuck I think Joe was just joking - His Coriolis post confused me... -----Original Message----- From: Owen Cooke [[4]mailto:owen@tadhgcooke.com] Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 5:45 AM To: Julian Kift; Guido deTomaso; [5]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank, was Re: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 147, Issue 19 Julian yes you could be right i need to check it all again owen cooke On 22/09/2016 13:34, Julian Kift wrote: I think typically the factory chassis holes between the coolant tubes you refer to carries the steel pipe that runs the vacuum brake booster to engine vacuum. Julian ----------------------------------------------------------------------- - *From:* DeTomaso <[6]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of Owen Cooke <[7]owen@tadhgcooke.com> *Sent:* Thursday, September 22, 2016 2:51 AM *To:* Guido deTomaso; [8]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com *Subject:* Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank, was Re: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 147, Issue 19 OK i may have stated this incorrectly there is a steel pipe running from the top of the rad back to the engine and i forget exactly where is ends in the engine bay but this was clearly a factory installation as the chassis pieces had nicely flared hole and grommets lying between the two main steel pipes and the chassis pieces it runs through were clearly in the original steel pressing so this was not an after market fitting i will check on exactly where in the engine bay the pipes are going - i only guesses the swirl tank owen cooke On 21/09/2016 22:37, Guido deTomaso wrote:
"but my car had bleed pipe from the rad
back to the swirl tank"
I'm kinda fascinated by this mod, which I believe is in the TSB's,
connecting the top of the radiator to the swirl tank with a long
hose. Not sure how it works or what it was supposed to do.
With a completely dry system, I can visualise how it would allow the
radiator to fill completely, as air formerly trapped in the top of the
radiator would have a path back to the swirl tank, a higher point.
But once the engine is started, water or air is going to move from
the
swirl tank to the radiator, because of pressure difference. Not sure
this is helpful but maybe isn't harmful.
Most difficult to visualize, if the engine is off and there is air in
the radiator, can the weight / head / row gee aych of the water in the
swirl tank push the air into the swirl tank ? Is there some
Archimedes rule I'm not seeing here ?
Also did any cars come from the factory this way, was there an
official path and mounting systems for the hose ? Cable ties ?
Thanks,
Guy D.
----------------------------------------------------------------------- -
*From:* Owen Cooke <[9]owen@tadhgcooke.com>
*To:* [10]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
*Sent:* Saturday, September 17, 2016 2:19 AM
*Subject:* Re: [DeTomaso] DeTomaso Digest, Vol 147, Issue 19
guys
i had overheating problems
i put in a new hall brass rad but my car had bleed pipe from the rad
back to the swirl tank and no fitting in halls rad for it apart from a
top bleed screw
so i made a junction to fit the original bleed screw and the bleed
pipe
to it
then new mariah (is that the right name) that fir on the stock brackets
and wired them directly from the battery to the relays
i found the hole under the thermostat was blocked with solder
i removed that and fitted a new stat
now all is perfect temp wise - warms up steady and holds the 90c or
195f in all conditions
my gauge with sender in block beside the pump/stat ready 150f but its
steady and i know what to expect
very happy with result
owen cooke
On 16/09/2016 23:31, [11]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com
<[12]mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
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Daily Detomaso List Digest
Today's Topics:
1. Fans and shroud (Jack Donahue)
2. Re: Fans and shroud (Himes, Terry (397C))
3. Tires for Grp IV Flared Car (MyCars)
4. Re: Tires for Grp IV Flared Car (LSJ)
5. Re: Fans and shroud (Jack Donahue)
6. Re: Fans and shroud (Jack Donahue)
7. Re: Fans and shroud (Larry Stock)
8. McLeod hydraulic throw out (Cullen McCann)
9. Re: Fans and shroud (Ken Green)
10. McLeod hydraulic throw out (Larry Finch)
11. Re: Tires for Grp IV Flared Car (MyCars)
12. Re: Tires for Grp IV Flared Car (MyCars)
13. Re: McLeod hydraulic throw out (Will Kooiman)
14. Re: McLeod hydraulic throw out (Cullen McCann)
15. Re: McLeod hydraulic throw out (Larry Stock)
16. Re: Sanden Compressors noises (Mike Drew)
17. Re: Sanden Compressors noises (Julian Kift)
18. Re: Sanden Compressors noises (Mike Drew)
19. Re: McLeod hydraulic throw out (Larry Finch)
20. Re: McLeod hydraulic throw out (Cullen McCann)
21. NPC, Need transmission suggestions (michael frazier)
22. Re: Sanden Compressors noises (David Nunn)
23. Re: NPC, Need transmission suggestions (bill)
24. Re: Sanden Compressors noises (bill)
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2016 09:29:46 -0700
From: Jack Donahue <[20]demongusta@gmail.com
<[21]mailto:demongusta@gmail.com>>
To: "[22]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
<[23]mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>"
<[24]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
<[25]mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>>
Cc: "[26]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
<[27]mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>"
<[28]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
<[29]mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>>
Subject: [DeTomaso] Fans and shroud
Message-ID: <[30]CF682A66-9CF9-422E-AD65-2D23A9ABE4BC@gmail.com
<[31]mailto:CF682A66-9CF9-422E-AD65-2D23A9ABE4BC@gmail.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hey all - A few weeks ago I was talking asking The List about
radiators - all said-and-done, I decided on the Hall radiator, since I
wanted brass/copper instead of aluminum. And, yes Mike Drew, I have
to admit it?s because I want to, not necessarily NEED to. It ain?t
broke, but I am fixing it(?). Didn?t want to admit that, but...Lol.
There really is an ulterior motive, but I just don?t want to mention
it right now; but I ran my idea past Brassworks - who says they will
?build-to-suit? - but the Hall unit looks to be ?tried-and-proven?.
Now - fans. I really don?t know the brand name of my fans, but they
are suckers - about 12? diameter - and the blades are ?curved? -
sickle-shaped. The names that been bouncing around are Mariah, SPAL,
and Flex-a-lite. I had read someone?s post about the Flex-a-lite?s
since they said they can be - or are - mounted in a shroud that is a
perfect match for the Pantera radiator size. I think. And someone
offered-up a part number, but I deleted (or lost) it. All normal
for me.
So - I am ready for opinions/suggestions:
jack
#4348
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2016 16:54:05 +0000
From: "Himes, Terry (397C)" <[32]terry.himes@jpl.nasa.gov
<[33]mailto:terry.himes@jpl.nasa.gov>>
To: Jack Donahue <[34]demongusta@gmail.com <[35]mailto:demongusta@gmail.com>>,
"[36]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
<[37]mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>"
<[38]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
<[39]mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Fans and shroud
Message-ID: <[40]D4016E9F.92F3B%thimes@jpl.nasa.gov
<[41]mailto:thimes@jpl.nasa.gov>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Jack,
Good stuff. I too am running the original radiator with new fans.
I'm not going to change it
now but I will follow your progress. Someday I will have to deal
with it. So keep posting and
I will keep saving the responses. ;-)
Terry
"A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan,
stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!"
Terry W. Himes
JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Dawn Spacecraft Team
Rosetta Sequence Team Lead
Phone: (818) 393-6261
Cell: (818) 653-8213
Fax: (818) 393-3147
[42]thimes@jpl.nasa.gov
<[43]mailto:thimes@jpl.nasa.gov><mailto:thimes@jpl.nasa.gov
<[44]mailto:thimes@jpl.nasa.gov>>
??
From: DeTomaso <[45]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com
<[46]mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com><mailto:detomaso-b ounces@se rver.detomasolist.com
<[47]mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com>>> on behalf of Jack
Donahue <[48]demongusta@gmail.com
<[49]mailto:demongusta@gmail.com><mailto:demongusta@gmail.com
<[50]mailto:demongusta@gmail.com>>>
Date: Friday, September 16, 2016 9:29 AM
To: "[51]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
<[52]mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com><mailto:detomaso@server.de tomasolis t.com
<[53]mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>>"
<[54]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
<[55]mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com><mailto:detomaso@server.de tomasolis t.com
<[56]mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>>>
Cc: "[57]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
<[58]mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com><mailto:detomaso@server.de tomasolis t.com
<[59]mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>>"
<[60]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
<[61]mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com><mailto:detomaso@server.de tomasolis t.com
<[62]mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>>>
Subject: [DeTomaso] Fans and shroud
Hey all - A few weeks ago I was talking asking The List about
radiators - all said-and-done, I decided on the Hall radiator, since I
wanted brass/copper instead of aluminum. And, yes Mike Drew, I have
to admit it?s because I want to, not necessarily NEED to. It ain?t
broke, but I am fixing it(?). Didn?t want to admit that, but...Lol.
There really is an ulterior motive, but I just don?t want to mention
it right now; but I ran my idea past Brassworks - who says they will
?build-to-suit? - but the Hall unit looks to be ?tried-and-proven?.
Now - fans. I really don?t know the brand name of my fans, but they
are suckers - about 12? diameter - and the blades are ?curved? -
sickle-shaped. The names that been bouncing around are Mariah, SPAL,
and Flex-a-lite. I had read someone?s post about the Flex-a-lite?s
since they said they can be - or are - mounted in a shroud that is a
perfect match for the Pantera radiator size. I think. And someone
offered-up a part number, but I deleted (or lost) it. All normal
for me.
So - I am ready for opinions/suggestions:
jack
#4348
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This (below) is a genius modification, creating a true active deaeration system using suction from the water pump to continuously flow water through the expansion tank, drawing air from the high points in the system. But how common, how many have built a system like this ? The TSB modification, which some here ( Tomas? ) have confirmed was likely incorporated at the factory, connects the relatively high-pressure swirl tank to the lower-pressure radiator, so I conclude while the engine is running, nothing is going to flow from the radiator to the swirl tank, it's not going to actively de-aerate. Initial fill, I can see it helping. After that, I'm scratching my head. Thanks, GD From: Chuck and Linda Huber <lindahuber@cox.net> To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 7:27 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It doesn't go to the swirl tank) There is definitely a mod that sucks air from both the swirl tank, and the top of the radiator into the expansion tank. The expansion tank is under suction, and this causes any trapped air to bleed to the expansion tank. I did this on my car. I believe that it does its job, especially of removing any trapped air from the radiator. I had to run a new, separate metal hard line down the length of the car from near the front of the radiator, all the way back up the bulkhead past the electrics panel, to near the expansion tank. Here are pictures of my tanks with the appropriate bleed fittings installed. Chuck I think Joe was just joking - His Coriolis post confused me... -----Original Message----- From: Owen Cooke [mailto:owen@tadhgcooke.com] Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 5:45 AM To: Julian Kift; Guido deTomaso; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank, was Re: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 147, Issue 19 Julian yes you could be right i need to check it all again owen cooke
On 21/09/2016 22:37, Guido deTomaso wrote:
"but my car had bleed pipe from the rad back to the swirl tank"
I'm kinda fascinated by this mod, which I believe is in the TSB's, connecting the top of the radiator to the swirl tank with a long hose. Not sure how it works or what it was supposed to do.
With a completely dry system, I can visualise how it would allow the radiator to fill completely, as air formerly trapped in the top of the radiator would have a path back to the swirl tank, a higher point.
But once the engine is started, water or air is going to move from the swirl tank to the radiator, because of pressure difference. Not sure this is helpful but maybe isn't harmful.
Most difficult to visualize, if the engine is off and there is air in the radiator, can the weight / head / row gee aych of the water in the swirl tank push the air into the swirl tank ? Is there some Archimedes rule I'm not seeing here ?
Also did any cars come from the factory this way, was there an official path and mounting systems for the hose ? Cable ties ?
Thanks,
Guy D.
This (below) is a genius modification, creating a true active deaeration system using suction from the water pump to continuously flow water through the expansion tank, drawing air from the high points in the system. But how common, how many have built a system like this ? The TSB modification, which some here ( Tomas? ) have confirmed was likely incorporated at the factory, connects the relatively high-pressure swirl tank to the lower-pressure radiator, so I conclude while the engine is running, nothing is going to flow from the radiator to the swirl tank, it's not going to actively de-aerate. Initial fill, I can see it helping. After that, I'm scratching my head. Thanks, GD __________________________________________________________________ From: Chuck and Linda Huber <lindahuber@cox.net> To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 7:27 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It doesn't go to the swirl tank) There is definitely a mod that sucks air from both the swirl tank, and the top of the radiator into the expansion tank. The expansion tank is under suction, and this causes any trapped air to bleed to the expansion tank. I did this on my car. I believe that it does its job, especially of removing any trapped air from the radiator. I had to run a new, separate metal hard line down the length of the car from near the front of the radiator, all the way back up the bulkhead past the electrics panel, to near the expansion tank. Here are pictures of my tanks with the appropriate bleed fittings installed. Chuck I think Joe was just joking - His Coriolis post confused me... -----Original Message----- From: Owen Cooke [mailto:[1]owen@tadhgcooke.com] Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 5:45 AM To: Julian Kift; Guido deTomaso; [2]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank, was Re: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 147, Issue 19 Julian yes you could be right i need to check it all again owen cooke
On 21/09/2016 22:37, Guido deTomaso wrote:
"but my car had bleed pipe from the rad back to the swirl tank"
I'm kinda fascinated by this mod, which I believe is in the TSB's, connecting the top of the radiator to the swirl tank with a long hose. Not sure how it works or what it was supposed to do.
With a completely dry system, I can visualise how it would allow
radiator to fill completely, as air formerly trapped in the top of
radiator would have a path back to the swirl tank, a higher point.
But once the engine is started, water or air is going to move from
swirl tank to the radiator, because of pressure difference. Not sure this is helpful but maybe isn't harmful.
Most difficult to visualize, if the engine is off and there is air in the radiator, can the weight / head / row gee aych of the water in
the the the the
swirl tank push the air into the swirl tank ? Is there some Archimedes rule I'm not seeing here ?
Also did any cars come from the factory this way, was there an official path and mounting systems for the hose ? Cable ties ?
Thanks,
Guy D.
References 1. mailto:owen@tadhgcooke.com 2. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
I am being serious this post... I couldn't see the pics, but you confirmed how I thought Chuck had plumbed his tanks. I agree that way provides active deaeration and it will be one of the few modifications I plan to include. Joe -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Guido deTomaso Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 15:59 PM To: Chuck and Linda Huber; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It doesn't go to the swirl tank) This (below) is a genius modification, creating a true active deaeration system using suction from the water pump to continuously flow water through the expansion tank, drawing air from the high points in the system. But how common, how many have built a system like this ? The TSB modification, which some here ( Tomas? ) have confirmed was likely incorporated at the factory, connects the relatively high-pressure swirl tank to the lower-pressure radiator, so I conclude while the engine is running, nothing is going to flow from the radiator to the swirl tank, it's not going to actively de-aerate. Initial fill, I can see it helping. After that, I'm scratching my head. Thanks, GD From: Chuck and Linda Huber <lindahuber@cox.net> To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 7:27 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It doesn't go to the swirl tank) There is definitely a mod that sucks air from both the swirl tank, and the top of the radiator into the expansion tank. The expansion tank is under suction, and this causes any trapped air to bleed to the expansion tank. I did this on my car. I believe that it does its job, especially of removing any trapped air from the radiator. I had to run a new, separate metal hard line down the length of the car from near the front of the radiator, all the way back up the bulkhead past the electrics panel, to near the expansion tank. Here are pictures of my tanks with the appropriate bleed fittings installed. Chuck I think Joe was just joking - His Coriolis post confused me... -----Original Message----- From: Owen Cooke [mailto:owen@tadhgcooke.com] Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 5:45 AM To: Julian Kift; Guido deTomaso; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank, was Re: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 147, Issue 19 Julian yes you could be right i need to check it all again owen cooke
On 21/09/2016 22:37, Guido deTomaso wrote:
"but my car had bleed pipe from the rad back to the swirl tank"
I'm kinda fascinated by this mod, which I believe is in the TSB's, connecting the top of the radiator to the swirl tank with a long hose. Not sure how it works or what it was supposed to do.
With a completely dry system, I can visualise how it would allow the radiator to fill completely, as air formerly trapped in the top of the radiator would have a path back to the swirl tank, a higher point.
But once the engine is started, water or air is going to move from the swirl tank to the radiator, because of pressure difference. Not sure this is helpful but maybe isn't harmful.
Most difficult to visualize, if the engine is off and there is air in the radiator, can the weight / head / row gee aych of the water in the swirl tank push the air into the swirl tank ? Is there some Archimedes rule I'm not seeing here ?
Also did any cars come from the factory this way, was there an official path and mounting systems for the hose ? Cable ties ?
Thanks,
Guy D.
My stupid guess is that it works, if at all, when the system is cool and pressures have subsided. The top of the radiator is lower than the tank, so perhaps the air trapped at the top of the radiator after a heat cycle travels to the tank. Either that, or the speed of the water in the tank while the engine is running creates enough suction that it scavenges the air (and some water) from the top of the radiator. If I recall correctly, when I installed my aluminum radiator from PPC 15 or more years ago, Dennis told me not to worry about that line, it didn¹t do anything anyway. I¹ve followed the raising and bleeding procedures since with no water temp problems (except for erratic gauge readings at times) but no actual overheating. Richard Austin, TX From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of "Joseph F. Byrd, Jr." <byrdjf@embarqmail.com> Date: Thursday, September 22, 2016 at 15:18 To: 'Guido deTomaso' <guido_detomaso@prodigy.net>, 'Chuck and Linda Huber' <lindahuber@cox.net>, <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It doesn't go to the swirl tank) I am being serious this post... I couldn't see the pics, but you confirmed how I thought Chuck had plumbed his tanks. I agree that way provides active deaeration and it will be one of the few modifications I plan to include. Joe -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Guido deTomaso Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 15:59 PM To: Chuck and Linda Huber; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It doesn't go to the swirl tank) This (below) is a genius modification, creating a true active deaeration system using suction from the water pump to continuously flow water through the expansion tank, drawing air from the high points in the system. But how common, how many have built a system like this ? The TSB modification, which some here ( Tomas? ) have confirmed was likely incorporated at the factory, connects the relatively high-pressure swirl tank to the lower-pressure radiator, so I conclude while the engine is running, nothing is going to flow from the radiator to the swirl tank, it's not going to actively de-aerate. Initial fill, I can see it helping. After that, I'm scratching my head. Thanks, GD From: Chuck and Linda Huber <lindahuber@cox.net> To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 7:27 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It doesn't go to the swirl tank) There is definitely a mod that sucks air from both the swirl tank, and the top of the radiator into the expansion tank. The expansion tank is under suction, and this causes any trapped air to bleed to the expansion tank. I did this on my car. I believe that it does its job, especially of removing any trapped air from the radiator. I had to run a new, separate metal hard line down the length of the car from near the front of the radiator, all the way back up the bulkhead past the electrics panel, to near the expansion tank. Here are pictures of my tanks with the appropriate bleed fittings installed. Chuck I think Joe was just joking - His Coriolis post confused me... -----Original Message----- From: Owen Cooke [mailto:owen@tadhgcooke.com] Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 5:45 AM To: Julian Kift; Guido deTomaso; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank, was Re: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 147, Issue 19 Julian yes you could be right i need to check it all again owen cooke
On 21/09/2016 22:37, Guido deTomaso wrote:
"but my car had bleed pipe from the rad back to the swirl tank"
I'm kinda fascinated by this mod, which I believe is in the TSB's, connecting the top of the radiator to the swirl tank with a long hose. Not sure how it works or what it was supposed to do.
With a completely dry system, I can visualise how it would allow the radiator to fill completely, as air formerly trapped in the top of the radiator would have a path back to the swirl tank, a higher point.
But once the engine is started, water or air is going to move from the swirl tank to the radiator, because of pressure difference. Not sure this is helpful but maybe isn't harmful.
Most difficult to visualize, if the engine is off and there is air in the radiator, can the weight / head / row gee aych of the water in the swirl tank push the air into the swirl tank ? Is there some Archimedes rule I'm not seeing here ?
Also did any cars come from the factory this way, was there an official path and mounting systems for the hose ? Cable ties ?
Thanks,
Guy D.
_______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. My stupid guess is that it works, if at all, when the system is cool and pressures have subsided. The top of the radiator is lower than the tank, so perhaps the air trapped at the top of the radiator after a heat cycle travels to the tank. Either that, or the speed of the water in the tank while the engine is running creates enough suction that it scavenges the air (and some water) from the top of the radiator. If I recall correctly, when I installed my aluminum radiator from PPC 15 or more years ago, Dennis told me not to worry about that line, it didn't do anything anyway. I've followed the raising and bleeding procedures since with no water temp problems (except for erratic gauge readings at times) but no actual overheating. Richard Austin, TX From: DeTomaso <[1]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of "Joseph F. Byrd, Jr." <[2]byrdjf@embarqmail.com> Date: Thursday, September 22, 2016 at 15:18 To: 'Guido deTomaso' <[3]guido_detomaso@prodigy.net>, 'Chuck and Linda Huber' <[4]lindahuber@cox.net>, <[5]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It doesn't go to the swirl tank) I am being serious this post... I couldn't see the pics, but you confirmed how I thought Chuck had plumbed his tanks. I agree that way provides active deaeration and it will be one of the few modifications I plan to include. Joe -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [[6]mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Guido deTomaso Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 15:59 PM To: Chuck and Linda Huber; [7]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It doesn't go to the swirl tank) This (below) is a genius modification, creating a true active deaeration system using suction from the water pump to continuously flow water through the expansion tank, drawing air from the high points in the system. But how common, how many have built a system like this ? The TSB modification, which some here ( Tomas? ) have confirmed was likely incorporated at the factory, connects the relatively high-pressure swirl tank to the lower-pressure radiator, so I conclude while the engine is running, nothing is going to flow from the radiator to the swirl tank, it's not going to actively de-aerate. Initial fill, I can see it helping. After that, I'm scratching my head. Thanks, GD From: Chuck and Linda Huber <[8]lindahuber@cox.net> To: [9]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 7:27 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It doesn't go to the swirl tank) There is definitely a mod that sucks air from both the swirl tank, and the top of the radiator into the expansion tank. The expansion tank is under suction, and this causes any trapped air to bleed to the expansion tank. I did this on my car. I believe that it does its job, especially of removing any trapped air from the radiator. I had to run a new, separate metal hard line down the length of the car from near the front of the radiator, all the way back up the bulkhead past the electrics panel, to near the expansion tank. Here are pictures of my tanks with the appropriate bleed fittings installed. Chuck I think Joe was just joking - His Coriolis post confused me... -----Original Message----- From: Owen Cooke [[10]mailto:owen@tadhgcooke.com] Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 5:45 AM To: Julian Kift; Guido deTomaso; [11]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank, was Re: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 147, Issue 19 Julian yes you could be right i need to check it all again owen cooke On 21/09/2016 22:37, Guido deTomaso wrote:
"but my car had bleed pipe from the rad back to the swirl tank"
I'm kinda fascinated by this mod, which I believe is in the TSB's,
connecting the top of the radiator to the swirl tank with a long
hose. Not sure how it works or what it was supposed to do.
With a completely dry system, I can visualise how it would allow the
radiator to fill completely, as air formerly trapped in the top of
the radiator would have a path back to the swirl tank, a higher point.
But once the engine is started, water or air is going to move from
the swirl tank to the radiator, because of pressure difference. Not
sure this is helpful but maybe isn't harmful.
Most difficult to visualize, if the engine is off and there is air
in the radiator, can the weight / head / row gee aych of the water
in the swirl tank push the air into the swirl tank ? Is there some
Archimedes rule I'm not seeing here ?
Also did any cars come from the factory this way, was there an
official path and mounting systems for the hose ? Cable ties ?
Thanks,
Guy D.
_______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [12]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [13]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 2. mailto:byrdjf@embarqmail.com 3. mailto:guido_detomaso@prodigy.net 4. mailto:lindahuber@cox.net 5. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 6. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 7. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 8. mailto:lindahuber@cox.net 9. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 10. mailto:owen@tadhgcooke.com 11. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 12. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 13. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
Once you have the air bled out of the cooling system would it be common for "new air" to accumulate in the top of the radiator? Larry - Cleveland -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Richard Greenblum Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 4:52 PM To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It doesn't go to the swirl tank) My stupid guess is that it works, if at all, when the system is cool and pressures have subsided. The top of the radiator is lower than the tank, so perhaps the air trapped at the top of the radiator after a heat cycle travels to the tank. Either that, or the speed of the water in the tank while the engine is running creates enough suction that it scavenges the air (and some water) from the top of the radiator. If I recall correctly, when I installed my aluminum radiator from PPC 15 or more years ago, Dennis told me not to worry about that line, it didn¹t do anything anyway. I¹ve followed the raising and bleeding procedures since with no water temp problems (except for erratic gauge readings at times) but no actual overheating. Richard Austin, TX From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of "Joseph F. Byrd, Jr." <byrdjf@embarqmail.com> Date: Thursday, September 22, 2016 at 15:18 To: 'Guido deTomaso' <guido_detomaso@prodigy.net>, 'Chuck and Linda Huber' <lindahuber@cox.net>, <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It doesn't go to the swirl tank) I am being serious this post... I couldn't see the pics, but you confirmed how I thought Chuck had plumbed his tanks. I agree that way provides active deaeration and it will be one of the few modifications I plan to include. Joe -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Guido deTomaso Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 15:59 PM To: Chuck and Linda Huber; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It doesn't go to the swirl tank) This (below) is a genius modification, creating a true active deaeration system using suction from the water pump to continuously flow water through the expansion tank, drawing air from the high points in the system. But how common, how many have built a system like this ? The TSB modification, which some here ( Tomas? ) have confirmed was likely incorporated at the factory, connects the relatively high-pressure swirl tank to the lower-pressure radiator, so I conclude while the engine is running, nothing is going to flow from the radiator to the swirl tank, it's not going to actively de-aerate. Initial fill, I can see it helping. After that, I'm scratching my head. Thanks, GD From: Chuck and Linda Huber <lindahuber@cox.net> To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 7:27 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It doesn't go to the swirl tank) There is definitely a mod that sucks air from both the swirl tank, and the top of the radiator into the expansion tank. The expansion tank is under suction, and this causes any trapped air to bleed to the expansion tank. I did this on my car. I believe that it does its job, especially of removing any trapped air from the radiator. I had to run a new, separate metal hard line down the length of the car from near the front of the radiator, all the way back up the bulkhead past the electrics panel, to near the expansion tank. Here are pictures of my tanks with the appropriate bleed fittings installed. Chuck I think Joe was just joking - His Coriolis post confused me... -----Original Message----- From: Owen Cooke [mailto:owen@tadhgcooke.com] Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 5:45 AM To: Julian Kift; Guido deTomaso; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank, was Re: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 147, Issue 19 Julian yes you could be right i need to check it all again owen cooke
On 21/09/2016 22:37, Guido deTomaso wrote:
"but my car had bleed pipe from the rad back to the swirl tank"
I'm kinda fascinated by this mod, which I believe is in the TSB's, connecting the top of the radiator to the swirl tank with a long hose. Not sure how it works or what it was supposed to do.
With a completely dry system, I can visualise how it would allow the radiator to fill completely, as air formerly trapped in the top of the radiator would have a path back to the swirl tank, a higher point.
But once the engine is started, water or air is going to move from the swirl tank to the radiator, because of pressure difference. Not sure this is helpful but maybe isn't harmful.
Most difficult to visualize, if the engine is off and there is air in the radiator, can the weight / head / row gee aych of the water in the swirl tank push the air into the swirl tank ? Is there some Archimedes rule I'm not seeing here ?
Also did any cars come from the factory this way, was there an official path and mounting systems for the hose ? Cable ties ?
Thanks,
Guy D.
_______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
Many new cars have active deaearation. It's a requirement on military vehicles. Some say water pumps can suck air, but otherwise yes hard to see where any new air might come from. GD From: Larry - Ohio Time <Larry@OhioTimeCorp.com> To: 'Richard Greenblum' <Richard@richardgreenblum.com>; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Sent: Friday, September 23, 2016 6:55 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It doesn't go to the swirl tank) Once you have the air bled out of the cooling system would it be common for "new air" to accumulate in the top of the radiator? Larry - Cleveland -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Richard Greenblum Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 4:52 PM To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It doesn't go to the swirl tank) My stupid guess is that it works, if at all, when the system is cool and pressures have subsided. The top of the radiator is lower than the tank, so perhaps the air trapped at the top of the radiator after a heat cycle travels to the tank. Either that, or the speed of the water in the tank while the engine is running creates enough suction that it scavenges the air (and some water) from the top of the radiator. If I recall correctly, when I installed my aluminum radiator from PPC 15 or more years ago, Dennis told me not to worry about that line, it didn¹t do anything anyway. I¹ve followed the raising and bleeding procedures since with no water temp problems (except for erratic gauge readings at times) but no actual overheating. Richard Austin, TX From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of "Joseph F. Byrd, Jr." <byrdjf@embarqmail.com> Date: Thursday, September 22, 2016 at 15:18 To: 'Guido deTomaso' <guido_detomaso@prodigy.net>, 'Chuck and Linda Huber' <lindahuber@cox.net>, <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It doesn't go to the swirl tank) I am being serious this post... I couldn't see the pics, but you confirmed how I thought Chuck had plumbed his tanks. I agree that way provides active deaeration and it will be one of the few modifications I plan to include. Joe -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Guido deTomaso Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 15:59 PM To: Chuck and Linda Huber; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It doesn't go to the swirl tank) This (below) is a genius modification, creating a true active deaeration system using suction from the water pump to continuously flow water through the expansion tank, drawing air from the high points in the system. But how common, how many have built a system like this ? The TSB modification, which some here ( Tomas? ) have confirmed was likely incorporated at the factory, connects the relatively high-pressure swirl tank to the lower-pressure radiator, so I conclude while the engine is running, nothing is going to flow from the radiator to the swirl tank, it's not going to actively de-aerate. Initial fill, I can see it helping. After that, I'm scratching my head. Thanks, GD From: Chuck and Linda Huber <lindahuber@cox.net> To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 7:27 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It doesn't go to the swirl tank) There is definitely a mod that sucks air from both the swirl tank, and the top of the radiator into the expansion tank. The expansion tank is under suction, and this causes any trapped air to bleed to the expansion tank. I did this on my car. I believe that it does its job, especially of removing any trapped air from the radiator. I had to run a new, separate metal hard line down the length of the car from near the front of the radiator, all the way back up the bulkhead past the electrics panel, to near the expansion tank. Here are pictures of my tanks with the appropriate bleed fittings installed. Chuck I think Joe was just joking - His Coriolis post confused me... -----Original Message----- From: Owen Cooke [mailto:owen@tadhgcooke.com] Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 5:45 AM To: Julian Kift; Guido deTomaso; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank, was Re: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 147, Issue 19 Julian yes you could be right i need to check it all again owen cooke
On 21/09/2016 22:37, Guido deTomaso wrote:
> > > "but my car had bleed pipe from the rad back to the swirl tank" > > I'm kinda fascinated by this mod, which I believe is in the TSB's, > connecting the top of the radiator to the swirl tank with a long > hose. Not sure how it works or what it was supposed to do. > > With a completely dry system, I can visualise how it would allow the > radiator to fill completely, as air formerly trapped in the top of > the radiator would have a path back to the swirl tank, a higher point. > > But once the engine is started, water or air is going to move from > the swirl tank to the radiator, because of pressure difference. Not > sure this is helpful but maybe isn't harmful. > > Most difficult to visualize, if the engine is off and there is air > in the radiator, can the weight / head / row gee aych of the water > in the swirl tank push the air into the swirl tank ? Is there some > Archimedes rule I'm not seeing here ? > > Also did any cars come from the factory this way, was there an > official path and mounting systems for the hose ? Cable ties ? > > Thanks, > > Guy D. > >
_______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Many new cars have active deaearation. It's a requirement on military vehicles. Some say water pumps can suck air, but otherwise yes hard to see where any new air might come from. GD __________________________________________________________________ From: Larry - Ohio Time <Larry@OhioTimeCorp.com> To: 'Richard Greenblum' <Richard@richardgreenblum.com>; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Sent: Friday, September 23, 2016 6:55 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It doesn't go to the swirl tank) Once you have the air bled out of the cooling system would it be common for "new air" to accumulate in the top of the radiator? Larry - Cleveland -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:[1]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Richard Greenblum Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 4:52 PM To: [2]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It doesn't go to the swirl tank) My stupid guess is that it works, if at all, when the system is cool and pressures have subsided. The top of the radiator is lower than the tank, so perhaps the air trapped at the top of the radiator after a heat cycle travels to the tank. Either that, or the speed of the water in the tank while the engine is running creates enough suction that it scavenges the air (and some water) from the top of the radiator. If I recall correctly, when I installed my aluminum radiator from PPC 15 or more years ago, Dennis told me not to worry about that line, it didnA^1t do anything anyway. IA^1ve followed the raising and bleeding procedures since with no water temp problems (except for erratic gauge readings at times) but no actual overheating. Richard Austin, TX From: DeTomaso <[3]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of "Joseph F. Byrd, Jr." <[4]byrdjf@embarqmail.com> Date: Thursday, September 22, 2016 at 15:18 To: 'Guido deTomaso' <[5]guido_detomaso@prodigy.net>, 'Chuck and Linda Huber' <[6]lindahuber@cox.net>, <[7]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It doesn't go to the swirl tank) I am being serious this post... I couldn't see the pics, but you confirmed how I thought Chuck had plumbed his tanks. I agree that way provides active deaeration and it will be one of the few modifications I plan to include. Joe -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:[8]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Guido deTomaso Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 15:59 PM To: Chuck and Linda Huber; [9]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It doesn't go to the swirl tank) This (below) is a genius modification, creating a true active deaeration system using suction from the water pump to continuously flow water through the expansion tank, drawing air from the high points in the system. But how common, how many have built a system like this ? The TSB modification, which some here ( Tomas? ) have confirmed was likely incorporated at the factory, connects the relatively high-pressure swirl tank to the lower-pressure radiator, so I conclude while the engine is running, nothing is going to flow from the radiator to the swirl tank, it's not going to actively de-aerate. Initial fill, I can see it helping. After that, I'm scratching my head. Thanks, GD From: Chuck and Linda Huber <[10]lindahuber@cox.net> To: [11]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 7:27 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It doesn't go to the swirl tank) There is definitely a mod that sucks air from both the swirl tank, and the top of the radiator into the expansion tank. The expansion tank is under suction, and this causes any trapped air to bleed to the expansion tank. I did this on my car. I believe that it does its job, especially of removing any trapped air from the radiator. I had to run a new, separate metal hard line down the length of the car from near the front of the radiator, all the way back up the bulkhead past the electrics panel, to near the expansion tank. Here are pictures of my tanks with the appropriate bleed fittings installed. Chuck I think Joe was just joking - His Coriolis post confused me... -----Original Message----- From: Owen Cooke [mailto:[12]owen@tadhgcooke.com] Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 5:45 AM To: Julian Kift; Guido deTomaso; [13]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank, was Re: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 147, Issue 19 Julian yes you could be right i need to check it all again owen cooke
On 21/09/2016 22:37, Guido deTomaso wrote:
"but my car had bleed pipe from the rad back to the swirl tank"
I'm kinda fascinated by this mod, which I believe is in the
connecting the top of the radiator to the swirl tank with a long hose. Not sure how it works or what it was supposed to do.
With a completely dry system, I can visualise how it would allow
radiator to fill completely, as air formerly trapped in the top of the radiator would have a path back to the swirl tank, a higher
TSB's, the point.
But once the engine is started, water or air is going to move
from
the swirl tank to the radiator, because of pressure difference. Not sure this is helpful but maybe isn't harmful.
Most difficult to visualize, if the engine is off and there is air in the radiator, can the weight / head / row gee aych of the water in the swirl tank push the air into the swirl tank ? Is there some Archimedes rule I'm not seeing here ?
Also did any cars come from the factory this way, was there an official path and mounting systems for the hose ? Cable ties ?
Thanks,
Guy D.
_______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [14]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [15]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [16]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [17]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 2. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 3. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 4. mailto:byrdjf@embarqmail.com 5. mailto:guido_detomaso@prodigy.net 6. mailto:lindahuber@cox.net 7. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 8. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 9. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 10. mailto:lindahuber@cox.net 11. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 12. mailto:owen@tadhgcooke.com 13. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 14. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 15. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 16. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 17. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
Larry, I’m guessing again, but I believe the thinking was that on a street car you will not ever bleed all the air out and will add air when servicing, like checking the water level when the car is hot. I learned during my few years at FoMoCo that the engineers, as much as they hated it, had to plan for idiots operating the vehicles and less than inspired techs working on them. So this particular part of the system was designed to make up for this problem. Richard Austin, TX From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of Larry - Ohio Time <Larry@OhioTimeCorp.com> Date: Friday, September 23, 2016 at 8:55 To: Richard Greenblum <richard@richardgreenblum.com>, <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It doesn't go to the swirl tank) Once you have the air bled out of the cooling system would it be common for "new air" to accumulate in the top of the radiator? Larry - Cleveland -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Richard Greenblum Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 4:52 PM To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It doesn't go to the swirl tank) My stupid guess is that it works, if at all, when the system is cool and pressures have subsided. The top of the radiator is lower than the tank, so perhaps the air trapped at the top of the radiator after a heat cycle travels to the tank. Either that, or the speed of the water in the tank while the engine is running creates enough suction that it scavenges the air (and some water) from the top of the radiator. If I recall correctly, when I installed my aluminum radiator from PPC 15 or more years ago, Dennis told me not to worry about that line, it didn¹t do anything anyway. I¹ve followed the raising and bleeding procedures since with no water temp problems (except for erratic gauge readings at times) but no actual overheating. Richard Austin, TX From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of "Joseph F. Byrd, Jr." <byrdjf@embarqmail.com> Date: Thursday, September 22, 2016 at 15:18 To: 'Guido deTomaso' <guido_detomaso@prodigy.net>, 'Chuck and Linda Huber' <lindahuber@cox.net>, <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It doesn't go to the swirl tank) I am being serious this post... I couldn't see the pics, but you confirmed how I thought Chuck had plumbed his tanks. I agree that way provides active deaeration and it will be one of the few modifications I plan to include. Joe -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Guido deTomaso Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 15:59 PM To: Chuck and Linda Huber; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It doesn't go to the swirl tank) This (below) is a genius modification, creating a true active deaeration system using suction from the water pump to continuously flow water through the expansion tank, drawing air from the high points in the system. But how common, how many have built a system like this ? The TSB modification, which some here ( Tomas? ) have confirmed was likely incorporated at the factory, connects the relatively high-pressure swirl tank to the lower-pressure radiator, so I conclude while the engine is running, nothing is going to flow from the radiator to the swirl tank, it's not going to actively de-aerate. Initial fill, I can see it helping. After that, I'm scratching my head. Thanks, GD From: Chuck and Linda Huber <lindahuber@cox.net> To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 7:27 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It doesn't go to the swirl tank) There is definitely a mod that sucks air from both the swirl tank, and the top of the radiator into the expansion tank. The expansion tank is under suction, and this causes any trapped air to bleed to the expansion tank. I did this on my car. I believe that it does its job, especially of removing any trapped air from the radiator. I had to run a new, separate metal hard line down the length of the car from near the front of the radiator, all the way back up the bulkhead past the electrics panel, to near the expansion tank. Here are pictures of my tanks with the appropriate bleed fittings installed. Chuck I think Joe was just joking - His Coriolis post confused me... -----Original Message----- From: Owen Cooke [mailto:owen@tadhgcooke.com] Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 5:45 AM To: Julian Kift; Guido deTomaso; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank, was Re: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 147, Issue 19 Julian yes you could be right i need to check it all again owen cooke
On 21/09/2016 22:37, Guido deTomaso wrote:
"but my car had bleed pipe from the rad back to the swirl tank"
I'm kinda fascinated by this mod, which I believe is in the TSB's, connecting the top of the radiator to the swirl tank with a long hose. Not sure how it works or what it was supposed to do.
With a completely dry system, I can visualise how it would allow the radiator to fill completely, as air formerly trapped in the top of the radiator would have a path back to the swirl tank, a higher point.
But once the engine is started, water or air is going to move from the swirl tank to the radiator, because of pressure difference. Not sure this is helpful but maybe isn't harmful.
Most difficult to visualize, if the engine is off and there is air in the radiator, can the weight / head / row gee aych of the water in the swirl tank push the air into the swirl tank ? Is there some Archimedes rule I'm not seeing here ?
Also did any cars come from the factory this way, was there an official path and mounting systems for the hose ? Cable ties ?
Thanks,
Guy D.
_______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Larry, I'm guessing again, but I believe the thinking was that on a street car you will not ever bleed all the air out and will add air when servicing, like checking the water level when the car is hot. I learned during my few years at FoMoCo that the engineers, as much as they hated it, had to plan for idiots operating the vehicles and less than inspired techs working on them. So this particular part of the system was designed to make up for this problem. Richard Austin, TX From: DeTomaso <[1]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of Larry - Ohio Time <[2]Larry@OhioTimeCorp.com> Date: Friday, September 23, 2016 at 8:55 To: Richard Greenblum <[3]richard@richardgreenblum.com>, <[4]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It doesn't go to the swirl tank) Once you have the air bled out of the cooling system would it be common for "new air" to accumulate in the top of the radiator? Larry - Cleveland -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [[5]mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Richard Greenblum Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 4:52 PM To: [6]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It doesn't go to the swirl tank) My stupid guess is that it works, if at all, when the system is cool and pressures have subsided. The top of the radiator is lower than the tank, so perhaps the air trapped at the top of the radiator after a heat cycle travels to the tank. Either that, or the speed of the water in the tank while the engine is running creates enough suction that it scavenges the air (and some water) from the top of the radiator. If I recall correctly, when I installed my aluminum radiator from PPC 15 or more years ago, Dennis told me not to worry about that line, it didn(c)oet do anything anyway. I(c)oeve followed the raising and bleeding procedures since with no water temp problems (except for erratic gauge readings at times) but no actual overheating. Richard Austin, TX From: DeTomaso <[7]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of "Joseph F. Byrd, Jr." <[8]byrdjf@embarqmail.com> Date: Thursday, September 22, 2016 at 15:18 To: 'Guido deTomaso' <[9]guido_detomaso@prodigy.net>, 'Chuck and Linda Huber' <[10]lindahuber@cox.net>, <[11]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It doesn't go to the swirl tank) I am being serious this post... I couldn't see the pics, but you confirmed how I thought Chuck had plumbed his tanks. I agree that way provides active deaeration and it will be one of the few modifications I plan to include. Joe -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [[12]mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Guido deTomaso Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 15:59 PM To: Chuck and Linda Huber; [13]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It doesn't go to the swirl tank) This (below) is a genius modification, creating a true active deaeration system using suction from the water pump to continuously flow water through the expansion tank, drawing air from the high points in the system. But how common, how many have built a system like this ? The TSB modification, which some here ( Tomas? ) have confirmed was likely incorporated at the factory, connects the relatively high-pressure swirl tank to the lower-pressure radiator, so I conclude while the engine is running, nothing is going to flow from the radiator to the swirl tank, it's not going to actively de-aerate. Initial fill, I can see it helping. After that, I'm scratching my head. Thanks, GD From: Chuck and Linda Huber <[14]lindahuber@cox.net> To: [15]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 7:27 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It doesn't go to the swirl tank) There is definitely a mod that sucks air from both the swirl tank, and the top of the radiator into the expansion tank. The expansion tank is under suction, and this causes any trapped air to bleed to the expansion tank. I did this on my car. I believe that it does its job, especially of removing any trapped air from the radiator. I had to run a new, separate metal hard line down the length of the car from near the front of the radiator, all the way back up the bulkhead past the electrics panel, to near the expansion tank. Here are pictures of my tanks with the appropriate bleed fittings installed. Chuck I think Joe was just joking - His Coriolis post confused me... -----Original Message----- From: Owen Cooke [[16]mailto:owen@tadhgcooke.com] Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 5:45 AM To: Julian Kift; Guido deTomaso; [17]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank, was Re: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 147, Issue 19 Julian yes you could be right i need to check it all again owen cooke On 21/09/2016 22:37, Guido deTomaso wrote: > > > "but my car had bleed pipe from the rad back to the swirl tank" > > I'm kinda fascinated by this mod, which I believe is in the TSB's, > connecting the top of the radiator to the swirl tank with a long > hose. Not sure how it works or what it was supposed to do. > > With a completely dry system, I can visualise how it would allow the > radiator to fill completely, as air formerly trapped in the top of > the radiator would have a path back to the swirl tank, a higher point. > > But once the engine is started, water or air is going to move from > the swirl tank to the radiator, because of pressure difference. Not > sure this is helpful but maybe isn't harmful. > > Most difficult to visualize, if the engine is off and there is air > in the radiator, can the weight / head / row gee aych of the water > in the swirl tank push the air into the swirl tank ? Is there some > Archimedes rule I'm not seeing here ? > > Also did any cars come from the factory this way, was there an > official path and mounting systems for the hose ? Cable ties ? > > Thanks, > > Guy D. > > _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [18]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [19]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [20]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [21]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 2. mailto:Larry@OhioTimeCorp.com 3. mailto:richard@richardgreenblum.com 4. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 5. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 6. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 7. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 8. mailto:byrdjf@embarqmail.com 9. mailto:guido_detomaso@prodigy.net 10. mailto:lindahuber@cox.net 11. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 12. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 13. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 14. mailto:lindahuber@cox.net 15. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 16. mailto:owen@tadhgcooke.com 17. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 18. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 19. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 20. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 21. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
participants (5)
-
Chuck and Linda Huber -
Guido deTomaso -
Joseph F. Byrd, Jr. -
Larry - Ohio Time -
Richard Greenblum