Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side?
I'm pretty sure it's the other way around. Left side of the car, RH thread. Tomas <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-----> From: Guido deTomaso [guido_detomaso@prodigy.net] Sent: 27/5/2016 8:23:20 PM To: b.hower3400@yahoo.com;vinh.d.ly@gmail.com;larrys@panteraparts.com Cc: MikeLDrew@aol.com;detomaso@detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side? Late to this party. Pretty hard to imagine skidding to a stop and having the left side lug nuts spin off because of angular momentum, the hub stopped but the lugs kept spinning. Similarly hard to imagine the lightweight Pantera axle nut continuing to spin even if not tightened since it has a friction feature. Any fastener tightened at all is going to produce enough friction to be impervious to angular momentum / angular velocity changes. The self-tightening phenomenon is somewhat easy to predict where there's a rotating load and a thread. A bicycle pedal is a good example, if you can visualize the weight of the rider's foot going around a loose thread, visualize the male thread of the pedal shaft "walking" around the female thread of the crank arm, you may be able to predict which side will be self-tightening with a LH thread. Similarly British car knock off caps, if the hubs are put on the wrong side of the car, or the car is towed backwards, good chance the wheels will fall off, hasn't happened to me but I've heard several 1st person accounts. Again if you look at the weight of the car, visualize it walking around the thread, you can predict that the right side of the car will get the LH thread. ( Hit the top of the knock off toward the rear of the car to tighten ). LH threaded lug nuts, still used I believe on heavy-duty trucks, same principle. Other times reverse thread seems to be there only in case of catastrophe: Witness every VW and Porsche I'm aware of, they put a LH thread on the left side front spindle. Now this has no weight on the thread ... in order for the nut to want to turn, first the outside bearing would have to start spinning on the spindle, then the d-shape washer would have to fail, and the cotter pin or clamping feature would have to fail, ONLY THEN the reverse thread would save the day, until the heat build up snaps the spindle anyway. On the Pantera ... I don't see any path for the weight of the car to walk around the thread of the axle nut ... maybe it's there but I can't see it. However if under acceleration the flange spline failed, the nuts would tighten if they followed the flange, yes ? Perhaps this is the only reason for the handed thread in this application. Or so it seems to me, I could be wrong. GD From: B Hower via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To: Vinh Ly <vinh.d.ly@gmail.com>; Larry Stock <larrys@panteraparts.com> Cc: Mike Drew <MikeLDrew@aol.com>; "detomaso@detomasolist.com" <detomaso@detomasolist.com> Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 12:44 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side? You would probably never notice a problem. Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be ! ) __________________________________________________________________ From: Vinh Ly <vinh.d.ly@gmail.com> To: Larry Stock <larrys@panteraparts.com> Cc: Mike Drew <MikeLDrew@aol.com>; detomaso@detomasolist.com Sent: Friday, May 20, 2016 12:56 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side? Question, what would be the ramifications if the axles were incorrectly installed on the wrong side? Thanks, Vinh Ly #7445 On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 1:48 PM, Larry Stock <[1][1]larrys@panteraparts.com> wrote: S= Sinestro or Left (the Sinister hand that holds the sword when dueling with the Romans) that goes on the Left side (drivers side) Mike, you win the prize for getting this one correct Larry On 5/20/16, 10:33 AM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Mike Drew via DeTomaso" <[2][2]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com on behalf of [3][3]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote: >Hi guys, > >I thought I would lead off with he first technical question on the new >forum. > >The rear axles are marked S and D, for 'left' and 'right' respectively. >But that speaks to the thread direction (one of them is reverse thread, >left to tighten) > >It's my belief that the S or left-tighten axle goes on the left side of >the car but I can't remember for sure. Can somebody confirm or deny? > >Thanks! > >And welcome back! > >Mike > >Sent from my iPhone >_______________________________________________ > >Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA >Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes >DeTomaso mailing list >[4][4]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com >[5][5]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > >To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use >the links above. > _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [6][6]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [7][7]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. 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I'm pretty sure it's the other way around. Left side of the car, RH thread. Tomas <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-----> From: Guido deTomaso [guido_detomaso@prodigy.net] Sent: 27/5/2016 8:23:20 PM To: b.hower3400@yahoo.com;vinh.d.ly@gmail.com;larrys@panteraparts.com Cc: MikeLDrew@aol.com;detomaso@detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side? Late to this party. Pretty hard to imagine skidding to a stop and having the left side lug nuts spin off because of angular momentum, the hub stopped but the lugs kept spinning. Similarly hard to imagine the lightweight Pantera axle nut continuing to spin even if not tightened since it has a friction feature. Any fastener tightened at all is going to produce enough friction to be impervious to angular momentum / angular velocity changes. The self-tightening phenomenon is somewhat easy to predict where there's a rotating load and a thread. A bicycle pedal is a good example, if you can visualize the weight of the rider's foot going around a loose thread, visualize the male thread of the pedal shaft "walking" around the female thread of the crank arm, you may be able to predict which side will be self-tightening with a LH thread. Similarly British car knock off caps, if the hubs are put on the wrong side of the car, or the car is towed backwards, good chance the wheels will fall off, hasn't happened to me but I've heard several 1st person accounts. Again if you look at the weight of the car, visualize it walking around the thread, you can predict that the right side of the car will get the LH thread. ( Hit the top of the knock off toward the rear of the car to tighten ). LH threaded lug nuts, still used I believe on heavy-duty trucks, same principle. Other times reverse thread seems to be there only in case of catastrophe: Witness every VW and Porsche I'm aware of, they put a LH thread on the left side front spindle. Now this has no weight on the thread ... in order for the nut to want to turn, first the outside bearing would have to start spinning on the spindle, then the d-shape washer would have to fail, and the cotter pin or clamping feature would have to fail, ONLY THEN the reverse thread would save the day, until the heat build up snaps the spindle anyway. On the Pantera ... I don't see any path for the weight of the car to walk around the thread of the axle nut ... maybe it's there but I can't see it. However if under acceleration the flange spline failed, the nuts would tighten if they followed the flange, yes ? Perhaps this is the only reason for the handed thread in this application. Or so it seems to me, I could be wrong. GD From: B Hower via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To: Vinh Ly <vinh.d.ly@gmail.com>; Larry Stock <larrys@panteraparts.com> Cc: Mike Drew <MikeLDrew@aol.com>; "detomaso@detomasolist.com" <detomaso@detomasolist.com> Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 12:44 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side? You would probably never notice a problem. Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be ! ) __________________________________________________________________ From: Vinh Ly <vinh.d.ly@gmail.com> To: Larry Stock <larrys@panteraparts.com> Cc: Mike Drew <MikeLDrew@aol.com>; detomaso@detomasolist.com Sent: Friday, May 20, 2016 12:56 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side? Question, what would be the ramifications if the axles were incorrectly installed on the wrong side? Thanks, Vinh Ly #7445 On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 1:48 PM, Larry Stock <[1][1]larrys@panteraparts.com> wrote: S= Sinestro or Left (the Sinister hand that holds the sword when dueling with the Romans) that goes on the Left side (drivers side) Mike, you win the prize for getting this one correct Larry On 5/20/16, 10:33 AM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Mike Drew via DeTomaso" <[2][2]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com on behalf of [3][3]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote: >Hi guys, > >I thought I would lead off with he first technical question on the new >forum. > >The rear axles are marked S and D, for 'left' and 'right' respectively. >But that speaks to the thread direction (one of them is reverse thread, >left to tighten) > >It's my belief that the S or left-tighten axle goes on the left side of >the car but I can't remember for sure. Can somebody confirm or deny? > >Thanks! > >And welcome back! > >Mike > >Sent from my iPhone >_______________________________________________ > >Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA >Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes >DeTomaso mailing list >[4][4]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com >[5][5]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > >To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use >the links above. > _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [6][6]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [7][7]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. References 1. mailto:[8]larrys@panteraparts.com 2. mailto:[9]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 3. mailto:[10]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 4. mailto:[11]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 5. [12]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 6. mailto:[13]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 7. [14]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [15]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [16]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. 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Tomas, I started this thread and the overwhelming response is that the original setup had the LH threads on the LH side of the car. I don't really want to know why, just wanted to know what was done originally.... Cheers! Mike Sent from my iPad
On May 27, 2016, at 12:35 PM, Tomas Gunnarsson <guson@home.se> wrote:
I'm pretty sure it's the other way around. Left side of the car, RH thread.
Tomas <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-----> From: Guido deTomaso [guido_detomaso@prodigy.net] Sent: 27/5/2016 8:23:20 PM To: b.hower3400@yahoo.com;vinh.d.ly@gmail.com;larrys@panteraparts.com Cc: MikeLDrew@aol.com;detomaso@detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side? Late to this party. Pretty hard to imagine skidding to a stop and having the left side lug nuts spin off because of angular momentum, the hub stopped but the lugs kept spinning. Similarly hard to imagine the lightweight Pantera axle nut continuing to spin even if not tightened since it has a friction feature. Any fastener tightened at all is going to produce enough friction to be impervious to angular momentum / angular velocity changes. The self-tightening phenomenon is somewhat easy to predict where there's a rotating load and a thread. A bicycle pedal is a good example, if you can visualize the weight of the rider's foot going around a loose thread, visualize the male thread of the pedal shaft "walking" around the female thread of the crank arm, you may be able to predict which side will be self-tightening with a LH thread. Similarly British car knock off caps, if the hubs are put on the wrong side of the car, or the car is towed backwards, good chance the wheels will fall off, hasn't happened to me but I've heard several 1st person accounts. Again if you look at the weight of the car, visualize it walking around the thread, you can predict that the right side of the car will get the LH thread. ( Hit the top of the knock off toward the rear of the car to tighten ). LH threaded lug nuts, still used I believe on heavy-duty trucks, same principle. Other times reverse thread seems to be there only in case of catastrophe: Witness every VW and Porsche I'm aware of, they put a LH thread on the left side front spindle. Now this has no weight on the thread ... in order for the nut to want to turn, first the outside bearing would have to start spinning on the spindle, then the d-shape washer would have to fail, and the cotter pin or clamping feature would have to fail, ONLY THEN the reverse thread would save the day, until the heat build up snaps the spindle anyway. On the Pantera ... I don't see any path for the weight of the car to walk around the thread of the axle nut ... maybe it's there but I can't see it. However if under acceleration the flange spline failed, the nuts would tighten if they followed the flange, yes ? Perhaps this is the only reason for the handed thread in this application. Or so it seems to me, I could be wrong. GD From: B Hower via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To: Vinh Ly <vinh.d.ly@gmail.com>; Larry Stock <larrys@panteraparts.com> Cc: Mike Drew <MikeLDrew@aol.com>; "detomaso@detomasolist.com" <detomaso@detomasolist.com> Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 12:44 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side? You would probably never notice a problem. Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be ! ) __________________________________________________________________ From: Vinh Ly <vinh.d.ly@gmail.com> To: Larry Stock <larrys@panteraparts.com> Cc: Mike Drew <MikeLDrew@aol.com>; detomaso@detomasolist.com Sent: Friday, May 20, 2016 12:56 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side? Question, what would be the ramifications if the axles were incorrectly installed on the wrong side? Thanks, Vinh Ly #7445 On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 1:48 PM, Larry Stock <[1][1]larrys@panteraparts.com> wrote: S= Sinestro or Left (the Sinister hand that holds the sword when dueling with the Romans) that goes on the Left side (drivers side) Mike, you win the prize for getting this one correct Larry On 5/20/16, 10:33 AM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Mike Drew via DeTomaso" <[2][2]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com on behalf of [3][3]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
Hi guys,
I thought I would lead off with he first technical question on the new forum.
The rear axles are marked S and D, for 'left' and 'right' respectively. But that speaks to the thread direction (one of them is reverse thread, left to tighten)
It's my belief that the S or left-tighten axle goes on the left side of the car but I can't remember for sure. Can somebody confirm or deny?
Thanks!
And welcome back!
Mike
Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [6][6]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [7][7]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. References 1. mailto:[8]larrys@panteraparts.com 2. mailto:[9]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 3. mailto:[10]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 4. mailto:[11]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 5. [12]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 6. mailto:[13]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 7. [14]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [15]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [16]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. References 1. mailto:larrys@panteraparts.com 2. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 3. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 4. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 5. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 6. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 7. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 8. mailto:larrys@panteraparts.com 9. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 10. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 11. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 12. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 13. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 14. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 15. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 16. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. _______________________________________________
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The nut is on the inside of the axle, not on the outside like a knock off. On 5/27/16, 12:35 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Tomas Gunnarsson" <detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com on behalf of guson@home.se> wrote:
I'm pretty sure it's the other way around. Left side of the car, RH thread.
Tomas <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-----> From: Guido deTomaso [guido_detomaso@prodigy.net] Sent: 27/5/2016 8:23:20 PM To: b.hower3400@yahoo.com;vinh.d.ly@gmail.com;larrys@panteraparts.com Cc: MikeLDrew@aol.com;detomaso@detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side? Late to this party. Pretty hard to imagine skidding to a stop and having the left side lug nuts spin off because of angular momentum, the hub stopped but the lugs kept spinning. Similarly hard to imagine the lightweight Pantera axle nut continuing to spin even if not tightened since it has a friction feature. Any fastener tightened at all is going to produce enough friction to be impervious to angular momentum / angular velocity changes. The self-tightening phenomenon is somewhat easy to predict where there's a rotating load and a thread. A bicycle pedal is a good example, if you can visualize the weight of the rider's foot going around a loose thread, visualize the male thread of the pedal shaft "walking" around the female thread of the crank arm, you may be able to predict which side will be self-tightening with a LH thread. Similarly British car knock off caps, if the hubs are put on the wrong side of the car, or the car is towed backwards, good chance the wheels will fall off, hasn't happened to me but I've heard several 1st person accounts. Again if you look at the weight of the car, visualize it walking around the thread, you can predict that the right side of the car will get the LH thread. ( Hit the top of the knock off toward the rear of the car to tighten ). LH threaded lug nuts, still used I believe on heavy-duty trucks, same principle. Other times reverse thread seems to be there only in case of catastrophe: Witness every VW and Porsche I'm aware of, they put a LH thread on the left side front spindle. Now this has no weight on the thread ... in order for the nut to want to turn, first the outside bearing would have to start spinning on the spindle, then the d-shape washer would have to fail, and the cotter pin or clamping feature would have to fail, ONLY THEN the reverse thread would save the day, until the heat build up snaps the spindle anyway. On the Pantera ... I don't see any path for the weight of the car to walk around the thread of the axle nut ... maybe it's there but I can't see it. However if under acceleration the flange spline failed, the nuts would tighten if they followed the flange, yes ? Perhaps this is the only reason for the handed thread in this application. Or so it seems to me, I could be wrong. GD From: B Hower via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To: Vinh Ly <vinh.d.ly@gmail.com>; Larry Stock <larrys@panteraparts.com> Cc: Mike Drew <MikeLDrew@aol.com>; "detomaso@detomasolist.com" <detomaso@detomasolist.com> Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 12:44 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side? You would probably never notice a problem. Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be ! ) __________________________________________________________________ From: Vinh Ly <vinh.d.ly@gmail.com> To: Larry Stock <larrys@panteraparts.com> Cc: Mike Drew <MikeLDrew@aol.com>; detomaso@detomasolist.com Sent: Friday, May 20, 2016 12:56 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side? Question, what would be the ramifications if the axles were incorrectly installed on the wrong side? Thanks, Vinh Ly #7445 On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 1:48 PM, Larry Stock <[1][1]larrys@panteraparts.com> wrote: S= Sinestro or Left (the Sinister hand that holds the sword when dueling with the Romans) that goes on the Left side (drivers side) Mike, you win the prize for getting this one correct Larry On 5/20/16, 10:33 AM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Mike Drew via DeTomaso" <[2][2]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com on behalf of [3][3]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote: >Hi guys, > >I thought I would lead off with he first technical question on the new >forum. > >The rear axles are marked S and D, for 'left' and 'right' respectively. >But that speaks to the thread direction (one of them is reverse thread, >left to tighten) > >It's my belief that the S or left-tighten axle goes on the left side of >the car but I can't remember for sure. Can somebody confirm or deny? > >Thanks! > >And welcome back! > >Mike > >Sent from my iPhone >_______________________________________________ > >Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA >Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes >DeTomaso mailing list >[4][4]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com >[5][5]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > >To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use >the links above. > _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [6][6]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [7][7]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. References 1. mailto:[8]larrys@panteraparts.com 2. mailto:[9]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 3. mailto:[10]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 4. mailto:[11]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 5. [12]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 6. mailto:[13]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 7. [14]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [15]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [16]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. References 1. mailto:larrys@panteraparts.com 2. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 3. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 4. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 5. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 6. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 7. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 8. mailto:larrys@panteraparts.com 9. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 10. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 11. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 12. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 13. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 14. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 15. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 16. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. _______________________________________________
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participants (3)
-
Larry Stock -
Mike Drew -
Tomas Gunnarsson