Dear Bud, Now that is an excellent testimonial. Warmest regards, Chuck Engles On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 11:19 AM, B Hower via DeTomaso wrote:
My OEM was damaged beyond repair. I chose a Dennis Q, / Ron Davis with twin fans from Dennis also... I installed without major problems. The hoses both were reinstalled without having to modify them. Being 3400 only had one wire for fans a second was run. Temperature switches are 170 and 180 degree for fan control. I love this set up. My OEM needed cleaned even before it got damaged and gave me overheating caution on hot days. I just drove Lolita from KS to NY and back in very hot weather. After a long run on I-90 I did an IR check at hose in front of surge tank, reading was 170 degrees. Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be ! )
From: Ken and Lela MacArthur <klckmac@msn.com> To: "detomaso@server.detomasolist.com" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 10:41 AM Subject: [DeTomaso] Cooling system All,
Looking for advice on the newer aluminum radiators and stainless tube sets offered out there. I just took my OLD Hall brass one in for repairs and they want $650 for a re-do. I could get a new one for that price, but would like to know who has upgraded to a turn key kit like PIM offers or other dealer and if you would recommend any particular setup.
Thanks for the help.
Ken MacArthur
72L 4443
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I agree Ron Davis is the best Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 26, 2016, at 9:25 AM, cengles@cox.net wrote:
Dear Bud,
Now that is an excellent testimonial.
Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 11:19 AM, B Hower via DeTomaso wrote:
My OEM was damaged beyond repair. I chose a Dennis Q, / Ron Davis with twin fans from Dennis also... I installed without major problems. The hoses both were reinstalled without having to modify them. Being 3400 only had one wire for fans a second was run. Temperature switches are 170 and 180 degree for fan control. I love this set up. My OEM needed cleaned even before it got damaged and gave me overheating caution on hot days. I just drove Lolita from KS to NY and back in very hot weather. After a long run on I-90 I did an IR check at hose in front of surge tank, reading was 170 degrees. Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be ! )
From: Ken and Lela MacArthur <klckmac@msn.com> To: "detomaso@server.detomasolist.com" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 10:41 AM Subject: [DeTomaso] Cooling system All,
Looking for advice on the newer aluminum radiators and stainless tube sets offered out there. I just took my OLD Hall brass one in for repairs and they want $650 for a re-do. I could get a new one for that price, but would like to know who has upgraded to a turn key kit like PIM offers or other dealer and if you would recommend any particular setup.
Thanks for the help.
Ken MacArthur
72L 4443
_______________________________________________
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I'll give a third positive in the Ron Davis radiators that Dennis Quella sells. I've installed at least a dozen of these and have never had one fail, ever!! Best regards, Leslie A. Gray
On Jul 26, 2016, at 10:04 AM, "hoppe1@cox.net" <hoppe1@cox.net> wrote:
I agree Ron Davis is the best
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 26, 2016, at 9:25 AM, cengles@cox.net wrote:
Dear Bud,
Now that is an excellent testimonial.
Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 11:19 AM, B Hower via DeTomaso wrote:
My OEM was damaged beyond repair. I chose a Dennis Q, / Ron Davis with twin fans from Dennis also... I installed without major problems. The hoses both were reinstalled without having to modify them. Being 3400 only had one wire for fans a second was run. Temperature switches are 170 and 180 degree for fan control. I love this set up. My OEM needed cleaned even before it got damaged and gave me overheating caution on hot days. I just drove Lolita from KS to NY and back in very hot weather. After a long run on I-90 I did an IR check at hose in front of surge tank, reading was 170 degrees. Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be ! )
From: Ken and Lela MacArthur <klckmac@msn.com> To: "detomaso@server.detomasolist.com" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 10:41 AM Subject: [DeTomaso] Cooling system All,
Looking for advice on the newer aluminum radiators and stainless tube sets offered out there. I just took my OLD Hall brass one in for repairs and they want $650 for a re-do. I could get a new one for that price, but would like to know who has upgraded to a turn key kit like PIM offers or other dealer and if you would recommend any particular setup.
Thanks for the help.
Ken MacArthur
72L 4443
_______________________________________________
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------------------------------
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I bought a couple Ron Davis super speedway radiators that were new, but originally sold to Richard Petty. Dennis Antenucci has been using one and I kept one. Dennis was really happy with his. They are BIG single pass radiators. Single pass reduces the resistance to flow which some have found to cause cavitation at high RPM in the water pump in a Pantera, and the larger volume increases coolant dwell time in the radiator. The bubbles created by cavitation reduce cooling at high RPM where you need it the most. There is an article on the Stewart Components web site on radiators: Stewart Components | | | | | | | | | | | Stewart ComponentsHOME ONLINE STORE Accessories BMW Water Pump Chevy Bolt Kits Electric Water Pumps Ford 4.6L Pump High Flow Water Pumps Pro Series | | | | View on stewartcomponents.com | Preview by Yahoo | | | | | which says: "Double pass radiators require 16x more pressure to flow the same volume of coolant through them, as compared to a single pass radiator" Since a Pantera already has a long coolant path, it seems like a single pass radiator is a better approach. I'm not sure if the radiators Ron Davis makes for PPC are single or two pass, does anyone know? Ken From: L GRAY <tipo874a@msn.com> To: "hoppe1@cox.net" <hoppe1@cox.net> Cc: detomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 11:09 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system I'll give a third positive in the Ron Davis radiators that Dennis Quella sells. I've installed at least a dozen of these and have never had one fail, ever!! Best regards, Leslie A. Gray
On Jul 26, 2016, at 10:04 AM, "hoppe1@cox.net" <hoppe1@cox.net> wrote:
I agree Ron Davis is the best
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 26, 2016, at 9:25 AM, cengles@cox.net wrote:
Dear Bud,
Now that is an excellent testimonial.
Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 11:19 AM, B Hower via DeTomaso wrote:
My OEM was damaged beyond repair. I chose a Dennis Q, / Ron Davis with twin fans from Dennis also... I installed without major problems. The hoses both were reinstalled without having to modify them. Being 3400 only had one wire for fans a second was run. Temperature switches are 170 and 180 degree for fan control. I love this set up. My OEM needed cleaned even before it got damaged and gave me overheating caution on hot days. I just drove Lolita from KS to NY and back in very hot weather. After a long run on I-90 I did an IR check at hose in front of surge tank, reading was 170 degrees. Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be ! )
From: Ken and Lela MacArthur <klckmac@msn.com> To: "detomaso@server.detomasolist.com" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 10:41 AM Subject: [DeTomaso] Cooling system All,
Looking for advice on the newer aluminum radiators and stainless tube sets offered out there. I just took my OLD Hall brass one in for repairs and they want $650 for a re-do. I could get a new one for that price, but would like to know who has upgraded to a turn key kit like PIM offers or other dealer and if you would recommend any particular setup.
Thanks for the help.
Ken MacArthur
72L 4443
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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------------------------------
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On Jul 26, 2016, at 10:04 AM, "[5]hoppe1@cox.net" <[6]hoppe1@cox.net> wrote:
I agree Ron Davis is the best
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 26, 2016, at 9:25 AM, [7]cengles@cox.net wrote:
Dear Bud,
Now that is an excellent testimonial.
Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 11:19 AM, B Hower via DeTomaso wrote:
My OEM was damaged beyond repair. I chose a Dennis Q, / Ron Davis with twin fans from Dennis also... I installed without major problems. The hoses both were reinstalled without having to modify them. Being 3400 only had one wire for fans a second was run. Temperature switches are 170 and 180 degree for fan control. I love this set up. My OEM needed cleaned even before it got damaged and gave me overheating caution on hot days. I just drove Lolita from KS to NY and back in very hot weather. After a long run on I-90 I did an IR check at hose in front of surge tank, reading was 170 degrees. Bud #3400 ( Drive it
From: Ken and Lela MacArthur <[8]klckmac@msn.com> To: "[9]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com"
<[10]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 10:41 AM
Subject: [DeTomaso] Cooling system All,
Looking for advice on the newer aluminum radiators and stainless tube sets offered out there. I just took my OLD Hall brass one in for repairs and they want $650 for a re-do. I could get a new one for
price, but would like to know who has upgraded to a turn key kit
PIM offers or other dealer and if you would recommend any
setup.
Thanks for the help.
Ken MacArthur
72L 4443
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [11]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [12]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
------------------------------
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Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [13]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [14]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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etc.) use the links above.
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any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [15]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [16]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. I bought a couple Ron Davis super speedway radiators that were new, but originally sold to Richard Petty. Dennis Antenucci has been using one and I kept one. Dennis was really happy with his. They are BIG single pass radiators. Single pass reduces the resistance to flow which some have found to cause cavitation at high RPM in the water pump in a Pantera, and the larger volume increases coolant dwell time in the radiator. The bubbles created by cavitation reduce cooling at high RPM where you need it the most. There is an article on the Stewart Components web site on radiators: [1]Stewart Components [2]image [3]Stewart Components HOME ONLINE STORE Accessories BMW Water Pump Chevy Bolt Kits Electric Water Pumps Ford 4.6L Pump High Flow Water Pumps Pro Series [4]View on stewartcomponents.com Preview by Yahoo which says: "Double pass radiators require 16x more pressure to flow the same volume of coolant through them, as compared to a single pass radiator" Since a Pantera already has a long coolant path, it seems like a single pass radiator is a better approach. I'm not sure if the radiators Ron Davis makes for PPC are single or two pass, does anyone know? Ken __________________________________________________________________ From: L GRAY <tipo874a@msn.com> To: "hoppe1@cox.net" <hoppe1@cox.net> Cc: detomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 11:09 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system I'll give a third positive in the Ron Davis radiators that Dennis Quella sells. I've installed at least a dozen of these and have never had one fail, ever!! Best regards, Leslie A. Gray like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be ! ) that like particular list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
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To me, having the pressure cap on the pump/block discharge side would be the "cause" for cavitation at the pump suction, with the increase resistance of the radiator the contributor. Replumbing the coolant to place the pressure cap on a true expansion tank on the pump suction seems to be desirable. Thus, keeping the pump suction at a constant, not decreasing pressure with increasing flow. Turbulence in the pump inlet "elbow" would also contribute to cavitation and using a vane in that elbow be beneficial. JFB -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Ken Green via DeTomaso Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 15:20 PM To: L GRAY; hoppe1@cox.net Cc: detomaso Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system ...cause cavitation at high RPM in the water pump in a Pantera...
Joe, I think that what John describes here? http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/Technical/Pantera_Cooling-JTaphorn.pdf From: "Joseph F. Byrd, Jr." <byrdjf@embarqmail.com> To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 1:00 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system To me, having the pressure cap on the pump/block discharge side would be the "cause" for cavitation at the pump suction, with the increase resistance of the radiator the contributor. Replumbing the coolant to place the pressure cap on a true expansion tank on the pump suction seems to be desirable. Thus, keeping the pump suction at a constant, not decreasing pressure with increasing flow. Turbulence in the pump inlet "elbow" would also contribute to cavitation and using a vane in that elbow be beneficial. JFB -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Ken Green via DeTomaso Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 15:20 PM To: L GRAY; hoppe1@cox.net Cc: detomaso Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system ...cause cavitation at high RPM in the water pump in a Pantera... _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Joe, I think that what John describes here? [1]http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/Technical/Pantera_Cooling-JTaphorn. pdf __________________________________________________________________ From: "Joseph F. Byrd, Jr." <byrdjf@embarqmail.com> To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 1:00 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system To me, having the pressure cap on the pump/block discharge side would be the "cause" for cavitation at the pump suction, with the increase resistance of the radiator the contributor. Replumbing the coolant to place the pressure cap on a true expansion tank on the pump suction seems to be desirable. Thus, keeping the pump suction at a constant, not decreasing pressure with increasing flow. Turbulence in the pump inlet "elbow" would also contribute to cavitation and using a vane in that elbow be beneficial. JFB -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:[2]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Ken Green via DeTomaso Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 15:20 PM To: L GRAY; [3]hoppe1@cox.net Cc: detomaso Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system ...cause cavitation at high RPM in the water pump in a Pantera... _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [4]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [5]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/Technical/Pantera_Cooling-JTaphorn.pdf 2. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 3. mailto:hoppe1@cox.net 4. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 5. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
YES, but being just one of the many modifications John T made. I was think something that would not be noticeable and use the existing tanks. Attached description ; The top being the original where the pump suction decreases with increased flow. The center would have pump suction increasing with coolant temperature and The bottom would have pump suction constant (requires adding a recovery tank) Has anyone ever measured the dP/flow across their radiator? JFB From: Ken Green [mailto:kenn_green@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 16:12 PM To: Joseph F. Byrd, Jr.; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system Joe, I think that what John describes here? http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/Technical/Pantera_Cooling-JTaphorn.pdf _____ From: "Joseph F. Byrd, Jr." <byrdjf@embarqmail.com> To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 1:00 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system To me, having the pressure cap on the pump/block discharge side would be the "cause" for cavitation at the pump suction, with the increase resistance of the radiator the contributor. Replumbing the coolant to place the pressure cap on a true expansion tank on the pump suction seems to be desirable. Thus, keeping the pump suction at a constant, not decreasing pressure with increasing flow. Turbulence in the pump inlet "elbow" would also contribute to cavitation and using a vane in that elbow be beneficial. JFB -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Ken Green via DeTomaso Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 15:20 PM To: L GRAY; hoppe1@cox.net Cc: detomaso Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system ...cause cavitation at high RPM in the water pump in a Pantera... _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. YES, but being just one of the many modifications John T made. I was think something that would not be noticeable and use the existing tanks. Attached description ; The top being the original where the pump suction decreases with increased flow. The center would have pump suction increasing with coolant temperature and The bottom would have pump suction constant (requires adding a recovery tank) Has anyone ever measured the dP/flow across their radiator? JFB From: Ken Green [mailto:kenn_green@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 16:12 PM To: Joseph F. Byrd, Jr.; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system Joe, I think that what John describes here? [1]http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/Technical/Pantera_Cooling-JTaphorn. pdf _______________________________________________________________________ From: "Joseph F. Byrd, Jr." <[2]byrdjf@embarqmail.com> To: [3]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 1:00 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system To me, having the pressure cap on the pump/block discharge side would be the "cause" for cavitation at the pump suction, with the increase resistance of the radiator the contributor. Replumbing the coolant to place the pressure cap on a true expansion tank on the pump suction seems to be desirable. Thus, keeping the pump suction at a constant, not decreasing pressure with increasing flow. Turbulence in the pump inlet "elbow" would also contribute to cavitation and using a vane in that elbow be beneficial. JFB -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:[4]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Ken Green via DeTomaso Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 15:20 PM To: L GRAY; [5]hoppe1@cox.net Cc: detomaso Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system ...cause cavitation at high RPM in the water pump in a Pantera... _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [6]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [7]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/Technical/Pantera_Cooling-JTaphorn.pdf 2. mailto:byrdjf@embarqmail.com 3. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 4. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 5. mailto:hoppe1@cox.net 6. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 7. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
participants (5)
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cengles＠cox.net -
hoppe1＠cox.net -
Joseph F. Byrd, Jr. -
Ken Green -
L GRAY