New subject: resignations

16 Aug 2016

      Hey Michael,
I think the best way to put this controversy to bed is if you or your dad could speak about not being cooperative in regards to the the use of another printer that supposedly afforded the club an $8,000 savings. That really seems to be the only issue that continues this controversy and I still haven't heard either of you discuss the allegation. I'm sure your response will cut this thread for good and allow us all to move on with the rebuilding of this great club.
Marshall SmithPresident, San Diego Panteras

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Michael Haney <paso750@gmail.com> 
Date: 8/15/16  10:36 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: 'Judith McCartney' <jpoca2@hotmail.com>, 'Effie Richards' <erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com>, 'Julian Kift' <julian_kift@hotmail.com> 
Cc: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com, 'laurie Basile' <laurieferrari@aol.com> 
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations 

Thank you very much, Judy.
I really wish this thread would just die.
I know that this isn't the answer you're fishing for, but it'll have to do
since it's the truth.
Nancy quit and took her associate (me) with her because she was tired of
hearing from me all about Shortt's efforts to take over every aspect of
POCA.
I didn't fight her decision because I was in turn tired of Shortt's
intimidation and bullying tactics. Frankly, being on the Board wasn't fun
anymore and I was also very tired of Shortt's constant preening.
As a matter of record, I resigned from the Board BEFORE Profiles #3 even
went to the printer. I had nearly finished it and decided that I didn't want
to let the POCA members down. I really didn't want to contribute any more to
Shortt's regime, but my conscience won.
Even after I sent the magazine in, I still had to deal with Shortt. He
decided to interfere with the printer, sent them a database with a whole
bunch of problematic info and threaten nonpayment if he didn't get
preliminary proofs. How do I know this? I received a call while I was at
work from the woman working in Allegra Printing's mail room. She called
Shortt and he wouldn't help her with the database and ignored her questions.
Having no one else to call, she called me. I in turn contacted Judy, our
Membership Director, who fixed the problems that Shortt created.
Regarding Shortt's allegations of graft, if anyone can find a connection
between my family and anyone who EVER worked at Allegra Printing in Reno,
Nevada, (or indeed any of Allegra's branches) please let me know.
My Dad might respond as well, but he's been pretty busy caring for my
SERIOUSLY ill Mom who was in the hospital for the last two weeks and who
might finally be able to come back home in a couple more.
Now, can we finally put this "controversy" to rest?
Mike Haney

-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf
Of Judith McCartney
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 8:44 PM
To: Effie Richards; Julian Kift
Cc: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com; laurie Basile
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations

Mike Haney gave his resignation months way head of Jacks, two diff reasons.

Judith McCartney, Membership Director & Fun Rally coordinator.
...
From: erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 18:43:43 -0700
To: julian_kift@hotmail.com
CC: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com; laurieferrari@aol.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
Julian these are the same questions some of us have had and have been
waiting for a reply or statement. I'm willing to give the board some time to
come up with one.
Sent from Effie's iPad
...
On Aug 15, 2016, at 6:29 PM, Julian Kift <julian_kift@hotmail.com>
wrote:
   I have digested all the emails on this topic and to be honest it still
   doesn't sit well in my gut.
   Presumably the BOD voted in favor of changing printers based upon the
   quotes presented. Did they not have all the facts and
   if not why did they not question further? Did Jack have all the facts
w
   hen he resigned or were his and Mike Haney's resignations simply an
   outright stand against changing printer?
   Why did Michael push to change printer if he knew there was only
   pennies between it?
   Julian
     __________________________________________________________________
   From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of
   marshall smith <marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net>
   Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 10:11 AM
   To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com; laurieferrari@aol.com
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
   I find it funny that three months after the Fun Rally we are now
   hearing that Shortt's bid for printing did not include shipping.
Shortt
   is a lot of things but a mistake like this...?
   I was listening in on this meeting also and I know what I heard.
   Apparently, the board convinced 'some' members of this so-called
   discrepancy month's ago. Why wasn't this information, if it exists,
   relayed to ALL of us in a timely manner?
   Marshall
   --------------------------------------------
   On Mon, 8/15/16, Laurie Ferrari via DeTomaso
   <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
    Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
    To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
    Date: Monday, August 15, 2016, 9:57 AM
       Dear AJ,
       I have always respected you and your
    opinions but in this case you are
       incorrect as far as the resignation of
    Jack DeRyke.  I was on the Board
       of Directors' conference call where he was
    asked to stay and he
       adamantly refused to if the printer
    changed.  Jack's resignation was
       specifically because of the change in
    printer!  You can go research
       that phone conference call, or the minutes
    of the meeting, as the facts
       are saved.  As far as Mike Haney's
    resignation, that was done by his
       Mrs. for their reasons which most likely
    were aligned with their
       parents.
       Laurie
         In a message dated 8/13/2016
    9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,?
         [1]asajay@asajay.com
    writes:
         The last? I heard (and I may have
    heard wrong), the board was
         interested
         in doing a? -real- accounting
    comparison of printing costs, so for
         me,
         it's a wait and? see kind of
    thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing
         out on
         full-color? and paying $8,000 more
    for B/W then something is amiss.?
         However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt
    didn't account for all costs
         properly.? I? have more faith that
    the present board members will
         properly investigate? and sort it
    out for everyone.
         I am on-board with electronic
    delivery,? though I do admit it's nice
         to
         just sit back and read a paper
    copy? too.? It's also easier to
         hand-off
         to Sam so he can read it? later.?
    How do you really fix that?
         I would think (and I don't? know),
    that the ClubExpress membership
         database might be able to include
    a? "preference" as part of the
         member's
         profile or details.? Just as I? can
    set an address and phone number,
         if I
         could check a box for Electronic?
    delivery or paper copies, or both,
         and
         select whatever I wanted for each?
    item (Profiles versus
         Newsletter),
         that might be ideal.
         However,? I'm also familiar with
    quantity discounting.? It very well
         could be? that it costs the same
    amount to print 500 as it does to
         print
         50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I
    imagine those are considerations the
         board will? look at as well.
         Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie
    has claimed, I have? heard (from
         more
         than one person), that Jack and
    Mike did not resign? "because POCA
         changed printers;" it was over
    "control" of newsletter? content that
         in
         essence fell outside the bounds of
    the by-laws.? For? a guy that
         appeared
         to try very hard to get everyone
    else to follow the? by-laws (and
         it's
         unwritten code of ethics), Mr.
    Shortt certainly didn't? feel they
         applied
         to him.
         For the record, as I understand it,
    POCA? has changed printers
         -twice-
         since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
    related? to the DeRykes) got out
         of
         the business.? So the "family
    tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not
         a
         factor in the resignations.
         Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted
    for inflation)
         Asa? Jay
         Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt,
    USAFR, Retired
         &? Shelley? Mar
       -----Original Message-----
       From: detomaso-request <detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com>
       To: detomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
       Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:00 am
       Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue
    20
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       Daily Detomaso List Digest
       Today's Topics:
       1. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs.
    electronic (marshallgsmith)
       2. Re: De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay!
    again $250K!! (Michael Cox)
       3. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs.
    electronic (Stephen)

...
...
   ---
       Message: 1
       Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:27:43 -0700
       From: marshallgsmith <[6]marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net>
       To: [7]P6746@aol.com, [8]asajay@asajay.com,
       [9]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
       Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
    paper vs. electronic
       Message-ID:
       <[10]sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405@email.android.com>
       Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
       I have a couple questions Bob:
...
Calling this situation "multiple dues
    levels" seems to be making the
       issue too complex. There are some members
    that are opting to not have
       printed magazines mailed which should make
    those members eligible for a
       discount because of the savings.
What is your estimate of the length
    of time that it would take the
       board to arrange for a vote of the
    membership to change the bylaws to
       allow for this discount?
Who specifically made that
    apples-to-apples comparison you refer to?
I agree that the editors should have
    the most influence ?on the
       process. ?However, our editors of both
    publications seem to have a hard
       time reporting to the members about ANY
    issues pertaining to the
       publication's themselves. Might that
    change in the near future or will
       radio silence be the norm here?
       Marshall Smith
       Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
       -------- Original message --------
       From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <[11]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
       Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00)
       To: [12]asajay@asajay.com,
    [13]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
       Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
    paper vs. electronic
       To use a cliche, we're working on it.?
       Most of what has been mentioned is in the
    pipeline.?? However, there
       are
       restrictions, particularly with the
    By-Laws as they currently? stand.?
       There
       are no provisions for multiple dues
    levels,? particularly pertaining to
       how a
       member elects to have their club?
    publications delivered, etc.? That
       will
       take time as any changes or? amendments
    must be approved by the whole
       membership.
       The consensus seems to be that the
    Profiles would? continue as a print
       publication for all except foreign members
    who elect to? receive it
       digitally.?
       As far as printing is concerned, it is
    that first copy that is? so
       expensive, it is the subsequent copies
    that bring down the per unit?
       cost.? So as
       fewer units are produced and shipped, the
    cost per unit? increases but
       not
       proportionately.??
       An apples to apples comparison was made
    between an online? printer and
       the
       current printer for both printing and
    mailing and the difference? was
       pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but
    for the whole run.?
       As far as I am concerned, it is the
    editors who should have? the most
       influence as to how and where their
    product is produced.? They are? the
       ones who
       must work with the printers and mailing
    houses on a regular? basis.
       Bob Reid?
       In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
    Eastern Daylight Time,?
       [14]asajay@asajay.com
    writes:
       The last? I heard (and I may have heard
    wrong), the board was
       interested
       in doing a? -real- accounting comparison
    of printing costs, so for me,
       it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I
    agree, if POCA was missing out
       on
       full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W
    then something is amiss.?
       However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't
    account for all costs
       properly.? I? have more faith that the
    present board members will
       properly investigate? and sort it out for
    everyone.
       I am on-board with electronic delivery,?
    though I do admit it's nice to
       just sit back and read a paper copy? too.?
    It's also easier to hand-off
       to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do
    you really fix that?
       I would think (and I don't? know), that
    the ClubExpress membership
       database might be able to include a?
    "preference" as part of the
       member's
       profile or details.? Just as I? can set an
    address and phone number, if
       I
       could check a box for Electronic? delivery
    or paper copies, or both,
       and
       select whatever I wanted for each? item
    (Profiles versus Newsletter),
       that might be ideal.
       However,? I'm also familiar with quantity
    discounting.? It very well
       could be? that it costs the same amount to
    print 500 as it does to
       print
       50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine
    those are considerations the
       board will? look at as well.
       Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has
    claimed, I have? heard (from
       more
       than one person), that Jack and Mike did
    not resign? "because POCA
       changed printers;" it was over "control"
    of newsletter? content that in
       essence fell outside the bounds of the
    by-laws.? For? a guy that
       appeared
       to try very hard to get everyone else to
    follow the? by-laws (and it's
       unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
    certainly didn't? feel they
       applied
       to him.
       For the record, as I understand it, POCA?
    has changed printers -twice-
       since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
    related? to the DeRykes) got out of
       the business.? So the "family tie-in"?
    previously eluded to, was not a
       factor in the resignations.
       Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for
    inflation)
       Asa? Jay
       Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR,
    Retired
       &? Shelley? Marie
       Spokane,? WA
       ******************************
       [15]http://w7tsc.org
       [16]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
       _______________________________________________
       Detomaso? Email List is not managed by
    POCA
       Posted emails must not exceed 1.5?
    Megabytes
       DeTomaso mailing? list
       [17]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com
       [18]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
       To? manage your subscription (change email
    address, unsubscribe, etc.)
       use
       the? links above.
       Members who post to this list grant
    license to the list to? forward any
       message posted here to all past, current,
    or future members of the?
       list. They
       also grant the list owner permission to
    maintain an archive or? approve
       the
       archiving of list? messages.
       ?? To use a cliche, we're working on it.
       ?? Most of what has been mentioned is in
    the pipeline.? However, there
       are
       ?? restrictions, particularly with the
    By-Laws as they currently stand.
       ?? There are no provisions for multiple
    dues levels,
       ?? particularly pertaining to how a member
    elects to have their club
       ?? publications delivered, etc.? That will
    take time as any changes or
       ?? amendments must be approved by the
    whole membership.
       ?? The consensus seems to be that the
    Profiles would continue as a
       print
       ?? publication for all except foreign
    members who elect to receive it
       ?? digitally.
       ?? As far as printing is concerned, it is
    that first copy that is so
       ?? expensive, it is the subsequent copies
    that bring down the per unit
       ?? cost.? So as fewer units are produced
    and shipped, the cost per unit
       ?? increases but not proportionately.
       ?? An apples to apples comparison was made
    between an online printer
       and
       ?? the current printer for both printing
    and mailing and the difference
       ?? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per
    unit but for the whole run.
       ?? As far as I am concerned, it is the
    editors who should have the most
       ?? influence as to how and where their
    product is produced.? They are
       the
       ?? ones who must work with the printers
    and mailing houses on a regular
       ?? basis.
       ?? Bob Reid
       ?? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24
    P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
       ?? [19]asajay@asajay.com
    writes:
       ???? The last I heard (and I may have
    heard wrong), the board was
       ???? interested
       ???? in doing a -real- accounting
    comparison of printing costs, so for
       ???? me,
       ???? it's a wait and see kind of thing.? I
    agree, if POCA was missing
       out
       ???? on
       ???? full-color and paying $8,000 more for
    B/W then something is amiss.
       ???? However, I also believe Mr. Shortt
    didn't account for all costs
       ???? properly.? I have more faith that the
    present board members will
       ???? properly investigate and sort it out
    for everyone.
       ???? I am on-board with electronic
    delivery, though I do admit it's
       nice
       ???? to
       ???? just sit back and read a paper copy
    too.? It's also easier to
       ???? hand-off
       ???? to Sam so he can read it later.? How
    do you really fix that?
       ???? I would think (and I don't know),
    that the ClubExpress membership
       ???? database might be able to include a
    "preference" as part of the
       ???? member's
       ???? profile or details.? Just as I can
    set an address and phone
       number,
       ???? if I
       ???? could check a box for Electronic
    delivery or paper copies, or
       both,
       ???? and
       ???? select whatever I wanted for each
    item (Profiles versus
       Newsletter),
       ???? that might be ideal.
       ???? However, I'm also familiar with
    quantity discounting.? It very
       well
       ???? could be that it costs the same
    amount to print 500 as it does to
       ???? print
       ???? 50, or 10 (but I doubt it).? I
    imagine those are considerations
       the
       ???? board will look at as well.
       ???? Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie
    has claimed, I have heard (from
       ???? more
       ???? than one person), that Jack and Mike
    did not resign "because POCA
       ???? changed printers;" it was over
    "control" of newsletter content
       that
       ???? in
       ???? essence fell outside the bounds of
    the by-laws.? For a guy that
       ???? appeared
       ???? to try very hard to get everyone else
    to follow the by-laws (and
       ???? it's
       ???? unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
    certainly didn't feel they
       ???? applied
       ???? to him.
       ???? For the record, as I understand it,
    POCA has changed printers
       ???? -twice-
       ???? since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
    related to the DeRykes) got
       out
       ???? of
       ???? the business.? So the "family tie-in"
    previously eluded to, was
       not
       ???? a
       ???? factor in the resignations.
       ???? Just my $1.50? (two cents adjusted
    for inflation)
       ???? Asa? Jay
       ???? Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt,
    USAFR, Retired
       ???? &? Shelley Marie
       ???? Spokane, WA
       ???? ******************************
       ???? [20]http://w7tsc.org
       ???? [21]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
       ????
    _______________________________________________
       ???? Detomaso Email List is not managed by
    POCA
       ???? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
    Megabytes
       ???? DeTomaso mailing list
       ???? [22]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com
       ???? [23]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
       ???? To manage your subscription (change
    email address, unsubscribe,
       ???? etc.) use the links above.
       ???? Members who post to this list grant
    license to the list to forward
       ???? any message posted here to all past,
    current, or future members of
       ???? the list. They also grant the list
    owner permission to maintain an
       ???? archive or approve the archiving of
    list messages.
       _______________________________________________
       Detomaso Email List is not managed by
    POCA
       Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
    Megabytes
       DeTomaso mailing list
       [24]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com
       [25]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
       To manage your subscription (change email
    address, unsubscribe, etc.)
       use the links above.
       Members who post to this list grant
    license to the list to forward any
       message posted here to all past, current,
    or future members of the
       list. They also grant the list owner
    permission to maintain an archive
       or approve the archiving of list
    messages.

...
From: erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 18:43:43 -0700
To: julian_kift@hotmail.com
CC: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com; laurieferrari@aol.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
Julian these are the same questions some of us have had and have been
   waiting for a reply or statement. I'm willing to give the board some
   time to
   come up with one.
Sent from Effie's iPad
...
On Aug 15, 2016, at 6:29 PM, Julian Kift <julian_kift@hotmail.com>
   wrote:
I have digested all the emails on this topic and to be honest it
   still
  doesn't sit well in my gut.
Presumably the BOD voted in favor of changing printers based upon
Hey Michael,

   I think the best way to put this controversy to bed is if you or your
   dad could speak about not being cooperative in regards to the the use
   of another printer that supposedly afforded the club an $8,000 savings.
   That really seems to be the only issue that continues this controversy
   and I still haven't heard either of you discuss the allegation. I'm
   sure your response will cut this thread for good and allow us all to
   move on with the rebuilding of this great club.

   Marshall Smith

   President, San Diego Panteras

   Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone

   -------- Original message --------
   From: Michael Haney <paso750@gmail.com>
   Date: 8/15/16 10:36 PM (GMT-08:00)
   To: 'Judith McCartney' <jpoca2@hotmail.com>, 'Effie Richards'
   <erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com>, 'Julian Kift'
   <julian_kift@hotmail.com>
   Cc: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com, 'laurie Basile'
   <laurieferrari@aol.com>
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
   Thank you very much, Judy.
   I really wish this thread would just die.
   I know that this isn't the answer you're fishing for, but it'll have to
   do
   since it's the truth.
   Nancy quit and took her associate (me) with her because she was tired
   of
   hearing from me all about Shortt's efforts to take over every aspect of
   POCA.
   I didn't fight her decision because I was in turn tired of Shortt's
   intimidation and bullying tactics. Frankly, being on the Board wasn't
   fun
   anymore and I was also very tired of Shortt's constant preening.
   As a matter of record, I resigned from the Board BEFORE Profiles #3
   even
   went to the printer. I had nearly finished it and decided that I didn't
   want
   to let the POCA members down. I really didn't want to contribute any
   more to
   Shortt's regime, but my conscience won.
   Even after I sent the magazine in, I still had to deal with Shortt. He
   decided to interfere with the printer, sent them a database with a
   whole
   bunch of problematic info and threaten nonpayment if he didn't get
   preliminary proofs. How do I know this? I received a call while I was
   at
   work from the woman working in Allegra Printing's mail room. She called
   Shortt and he wouldn't help her with the database and ignored her
   questions.
   Having no one else to call, she called me. I in turn contacted Judy,
   our
   Membership Director, who fixed the problems that Shortt created.
   Regarding Shortt's allegations of graft, if anyone can find a
   connection
   between my family and anyone who EVER worked at Allegra Printing in
   Reno,
   Nevada, (or indeed any of Allegra's branches) please let me know.
   My Dad might respond as well, but he's been pretty busy caring for my
   SERIOUSLY ill Mom who was in the hospital for the last two weeks and
   who
   might finally be able to come back home in a couple more.
   Now, can we finally put this "controversy" to rest?
   Mike Haney
   -----Original Message-----
   From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On
   Behalf
   Of Judith McCartney
   Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 8:44 PM
   To: Effie Richards; Julian Kift
   Cc: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com; laurie Basile
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
   Mike Haney gave his resignation months way head of Jacks, two diff
   reasons.
   Judith McCartney, Membership Director & Fun Rally coordinator.
   the
...
...
quotes presented. Did they not have all the facts and
  if not why did they not question further? Did Jack have all the
   facts
   w
  hen he resigned or were his and Mike Haney's resignations simply
   an
  outright stand against changing printer?
Why did Michael push to change printer if he knew there was only
  pennies between it?
Julian

...
...
From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com> on
behalf of
...
marshall smith <marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net>
  Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 10:11 AM
  To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com; laurieferrari@aol.com
  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
I find it funny that three months after the Fun Rally we are now
  hearing that Shortt's bid for printing did not include shipping.
   Shortt
  is a lot of things but a mistake like this...?
  I was listening in on this meeting also and I know what I heard.
  Apparently, the board convinced 'some' members of this so-called
  discrepancy month's ago. Why wasn't this information, if it
   exists,
  relayed to ALL of us in a timely manner?
  Marshall
--------------------------------------------
  On Mon, 8/15/16, Laurie Ferrari via DeTomaso
  <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
   To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
   Date: Monday, August 15, 2016, 9:57 AM
Dear AJ,
I have always respected you and your
   opinions but in this case you are
      incorrect as far as the resignation of
   Jack DeRyke.  I was on the Board
      of Directors' conference call where he was
   asked to stay and he
      adamantly refused to if the printer
   changed.  Jack's resignation was
      specifically because of the change in
   printer!  You can go research
      that phone conference call, or the minutes
   of the meeting, as the facts
      are saved.  As far as Mike Haney's
   resignation, that was done by his
      Mrs. for their reasons which most likely
   were aligned with their
      parents.
Laurie
In a message dated 8/13/2016
   9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,?
        [1]asajay@asajay.com
   writes:
        The last? I heard (and I may have
   heard wrong), the board was
        interested
        in doing a? -real- accounting
   comparison of printing costs, so for
        me,
        it's a wait and? see kind of
   thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing
        out on
        full-color? and paying $8,000 more
   for B/W then something is amiss.?
        However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt
   didn't account for all costs
        properly.? I? have more faith that
   the present board members will
        properly investigate? and sort it
   out for everyone.
        I am on-board with electronic
   delivery,? though I do admit it's nice
        to
        just sit back and read a paper
   copy? too.? It's also easier to
        hand-off
        to Sam so he can read it? later.?
   How do you really fix that?
        I would think (and I don't? know),
   that the ClubExpress membership
        database might be able to include
   a? "preference" as part of the
        member's
        profile or details.? Just as I? can
   set an address and phone number,
        if I
        could check a box for Electronic?
   delivery or paper copies, or both,
        and
        select whatever I wanted for each?
   item (Profiles versus
        Newsletter),
        that might be ideal.
        However,? I'm also familiar with
   quantity discounting.? It very well
        could be? that it costs the same
   amount to print 500 as it does to
        print
        50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I
   imagine those are considerations the
        board will? look at as well.
        Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie
   has claimed, I have? heard (from
        more
        than one person), that Jack and
   Mike did not resign? "because POCA
        changed printers;" it was over
   "control" of newsletter? content that
        in
        essence fell outside the bounds of
   the by-laws.? For? a guy that
        appeared
        to try very hard to get everyone
   else to follow the? by-laws (and
        it's
        unwritten code of ethics), Mr.
   Shortt certainly didn't? feel they
        applied
        to him.
        For the record, as I understand it,
   POCA? has changed printers
        -twice-
        since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
   related? to the DeRykes) got out
        of
        the business.? So the "family
   tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not
        a
        factor in the resignations.
        Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted
   for inflation)
        Asa? Jay
        Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt,
   USAFR, Retired
        &? Shelley? Mar
-----Original Message-----
      From: detomaso-request
   <detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com>
      To: detomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
      Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:00 am
      Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue
   20
      Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to
      [2]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
      To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World
   Wide Web, visit
      [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
      or, via email, send a message with subject
   or body 'help' to
      detomaso-[4]request@server.detomasolist.com
      You can reach the person managing the list
   at
      detomaso-[5]owner@server.detomasolist.com
      When replying, please edit your Subject
   line so it is more specific
      than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..."
      Daily Detomaso List Digest
      Today's Topics:
      1. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs.
   electronic (marshallgsmith)
      2. Re: De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay!
   again $250K!! (Michael Cox)
      3. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs.
   electronic (Stephen)

...
...
---
      Message: 1
      Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:27:43 -0700
      From: marshallgsmith <[6]marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net>
      To: [7]P6746@aol.com, [8]asajay@asajay.com,
      [9]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
      Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
   paper vs. electronic
      Message-ID:
<[10]sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405@email.android.com>
...
...
Calling this situation "multiple dues
   levels" seems to be making the
      issue too complex. There are some members
...
What is your estimate of the length
   of time that it would take the
      board to arrange for a vote of the
   membership to change the bylaws to
      allow for this discount?
Who specifically made that
   apples-to-apples comparison you refer to?
I agree that the editors should have
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
      I have a couple questions Bob:
   that are opting to not have
      printed magazines mailed which should make
   those members eligible for a
      discount because of the savings.
   the most influence ?on the
      process. ?However, our editors of both
   publications seem to have a hard
      time reporting to the members about ANY
   issues pertaining to the
      publication's themselves. Might that
   change in the near future or will
      radio silence be the norm here?
      Marshall Smith
      Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
      -------- Original message --------
      From: P6746--- via DeTomaso
<[11]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
...
Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00)
      To: [12]asajay@asajay.com,
   [13]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
      Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
   paper vs. electronic
      To use a cliche, we're working on it.?
      Most of what has been mentioned is in the
   pipeline.?? However, there
      are
      restrictions, particularly with the
   By-Laws as they currently? stand.?
      There
      are no provisions for multiple dues
   levels,? particularly pertaining to
      how a
      member elects to have their club?
   publications delivered, etc.? That
      will
      take time as any changes or? amendments
   must be approved by the whole
      membership.
      The consensus seems to be that the
   Profiles would? continue as a print
      publication for all except foreign members
   who elect to? receive it
      digitally.?
      As far as printing is concerned, it is
   that first copy that is? so
      expensive, it is the subsequent copies
   that bring down the per unit?
      cost.? So as
      fewer units are produced and shipped, the
   cost per unit? increases but
      not
      proportionately.??
      An apples to apples comparison was made
   between an online? printer and
      the
      current printer for both printing and
   mailing and the difference? was
      pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but
   for the whole run.?
      As far as I am concerned, it is the
   editors who should have? the most
      influence as to how and where their
   product is produced.? They are? the
      ones who
      must work with the printers and mailing
   houses on a regular? basis.
      Bob Reid?
      In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
   Eastern Daylight Time,?
      [14]asajay@asajay.com
   writes:
      The last? I heard (and I may have heard
   wrong), the board was
      interested
      in doing a? -real- accounting comparison
   of printing costs, so for me,
      it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I
   agree, if POCA was missing out
      on
      full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W
   then something is amiss.?
      However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't
   account for all costs
      properly.? I? have more faith that the
   present board members will
      properly investigate? and sort it out for
   everyone.
      I am on-board with electronic delivery,?
   though I do admit it's nice to
      just sit back and read a paper copy? too.?
   It's also easier to hand-off
      to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do
   you really fix that?
      I would think (and I don't? know), that
   the ClubExpress membership
      database might be able to include a?
   "preference" as part of the
      member's
      profile or details.? Just as I? can set an
   address and phone number, if
      I
      could check a box for Electronic? delivery
   or paper copies, or both,
      and
      select whatever I wanted for each? item
   (Profiles versus Newsletter),
      that might be ideal.
      However,? I'm also familiar with quantity
   discounting.? It very well
      could be? that it costs the same amount to
   print 500 as it does to
      print
      50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine
   those are considerations the
      board will? look at as well.
      Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has
   claimed, I have? heard (from
      more
      than one person), that Jack and Mike did
   not resign? "because POCA
      changed printers;" it was over "control"
   of newsletter? content that in
      essence fell outside the bounds of the
   by-laws.? For? a guy that
      appeared
      to try very hard to get everyone else to
   follow the? by-laws (and it's
      unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
   certainly didn't? feel they
      applied
      to him.
      For the record, as I understand it, POCA?
   has changed printers -twice-
      since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
   related? to the DeRykes) got out of
      the business.? So the "family tie-in"?
   previously eluded to, was not a
      factor in the resignations.
      Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for
   inflation)
      Asa? Jay
      Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR,
   Retired
      &? Shelley? Marie
      Spokane,? WA
      ******************************
      [15]http://w7tsc.org
      [16]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
      _______________________________________________
      Detomaso? Email List is not managed by
   POCA
      Posted emails must not exceed 1.5?
   Megabytes
      DeTomaso mailing? list
      [17]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com
      [18]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
      To? manage your subscription (change email
   address, unsubscribe, etc.)
      use
      the? links above.
      Members who post to this list grant
   license to the list to? forward any
      message posted here to all past, current,
   or future members of the?
      list. They
      also grant the list owner permission to
   maintain an archive or? approve
      the
      archiving of list? messages.
      ?? To use a cliche, we're working on it.
      ?? Most of what has been mentioned is in
   the pipeline.? However, there
      are
      ?? restrictions, particularly with the
   By-Laws as they currently stand.
      ?? There are no provisions for multiple
   dues levels,
      ?? particularly pertaining to how a member
   elects to have their club
      ?? publications delivered, etc.? That will
   take time as any changes or
      ?? amendments must be approved by the
   whole membership.
      ?? The consensus seems to be that the
   Profiles would continue as a
      print
      ?? publication for all except foreign
   members who elect to receive it
      ?? digitally.
      ?? As far as printing is concerned, it is
   that first copy that is so
      ?? expensive, it is the subsequent copies
   that bring down the per unit
      ?? cost.? So as fewer units are produced
   and shipped, the cost per unit
      ?? increases but not proportionately.
      ?? An apples to apples comparison was made
   between an online printer
      and
      ?? the current printer for both printing
   and mailing and the difference
      ?? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per
   unit but for the whole run.
      ?? As far as I am concerned, it is the
   editors who should have the most
      ?? influence as to how and where their
   product is produced.? They are
      the
      ?? ones who must work with the printers
   and mailing houses on a regular
      ?? basis.
      ?? Bob Reid
      ?? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24
   P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
      ?? [19]asajay@asajay.com
   writes:
      ???? The last I heard (and I may have
   heard wrong), the board was
      ???? interested
      ???? in doing a -real- accounting
   comparison of printing costs, so for
      ???? me,
      ???? it's a wait and see kind of thing.? I
   agree, if POCA was missing
      out
      ???? on
      ???? full-color and paying $8,000 more for
   B/W then something is amiss.
      ???? However, I also believe Mr. Shortt
   didn't account for all costs
      ???? properly.? I have more faith that the
   present board members will
      ???? properly investigate and sort it out
   for everyone.
      ???? I am on-board with electronic
   delivery, though I do admit it's
      nice
      ???? to
      ???? just sit back and read a paper copy
   too.? It's also easier to
      ???? hand-off
      ???? to Sam so he can read it later.? How
   do you really fix that?
      ???? I would think (and I don't know),
   that the ClubExpress membership
      ???? database might be able to include a
   "preference" as part of the
      ???? member's
      ???? profile or details.? Just as I can
   set an address and phone
      number,
      ???? if I
      ???? could check a box for Electronic
   delivery or paper copies, or
      both,
      ???? and
      ???? select whatever I wanted for each
   item (Profiles versus
      Newsletter),
      ???? that might be ideal.
      ???? However, I'm also familiar with
   quantity discounting.? It very
      well
      ???? could be that it costs the same
   amount to print 500 as it does to
      ???? print
      ???? 50, or 10 (but I doubt it).? I
   imagine those are considerations
      the
      ???? board will look at as well.
      ???? Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie
   has claimed, I have heard (from
      ???? more
      ???? than one person), that Jack and Mike
   did not resign "because POCA
      ???? changed printers;" it was over
   "control" of newsletter content
      that
      ???? in
      ???? essence fell outside the bounds of
   the by-laws.? For a guy that
      ???? appeared
      ???? to try very hard to get everyone else
   to follow the by-laws (and
      ???? it's
      ???? unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
   certainly didn't feel they
      ???? applied
      ???? to him.
      ???? For the record, as I understand it,
   POCA has changed printers
      ???? -twice-
      ???? since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
   related to the DeRykes) got
      out
      ???? of
      ???? the business.? So the "family tie-in"
   previously eluded to, was
      not
      ???? a
      ???? factor in the resignations.
      ???? Just my $1.50? (two cents adjusted
   for inflation)
      ???? Asa? Jay
      ???? Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt,
   USAFR, Retired
      ???? &? Shelley Marie
      ???? Spokane, WA
      ???? ******************************
      ???? [20]http://w7tsc.org
      ???? [21]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
      ????
   _______________________________________________
      ???? Detomaso Email List is not managed by
   POCA
      ???? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
   Megabytes
      ???? DeTomaso mailing list
      ???? [22]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com
      ????
[23]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
...
???? To manage your subscription (change
   email address, unsubscribe,
      ???? etc.) use the links above.
      ???? Members who post to this list grant
   license to the list to forward
      ???? any message posted here to all past,
   current, or future members of
      ???? the list. They also grant the list
   owner permission to maintain an
      ???? archive or approve the archiving of
   list messages.
      _______________________________________________
      Detomaso Email List is not managed by
   POCA
      Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
   Megabytes
      DeTomaso mailing list
      [24]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com
      [25]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
      To manage your subscription (change email
   address, unsubscribe, etc.)
      use the links above.
      Members who post to this list grant
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   or future members of the
      list. They also grant the list owner
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      or approve the archiving of list
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Re: [DeTomaso] resignations

marshallgsmith

Effie Richards

Charles McCall

Charles McCall

laurieferrari＠aol.com

Will Kooiman

Mark Charlton

Effie Richards

Effie Richards

Stephen

Effie Richards

Judith McCartney

Dick Koch

Jeff Detrich

tags

participants (10)