But most car transmissions also have all gears in constant mesh. You move a sleeve to connect one pair of gears to the axles at a time. One of the gears in each pair is constantly engaged to its axle. The difference has to be in how the gears engage and disengage to the axles Tomas <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-----> From: Julian Kift [julian_kift@hotmail.com] Sent: 29/7/2016 9:39:21 PM To: charlesmccall@gmail.com;pmenyhart@msn.com;detomaso@detomasolist.com;deto maso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content Charlie, Yes the older British cars often lack a syncro in 1st (and reverse is not usually a syncro either). Shifting a non syncro requires getting the gears that are to be meshed spinning at roughly the same speed, best achieved via double clutching or knowing what revs to shift at (18 wheelers are all non syncro boxes, most truckers can shift without use of a clutch). You could try this in your folks MG-TD, i recommend some distance from their house until you have it down [??] The main difference in a motorcycle gearbox is it is a "constant mesh" i.e. all the gears are constantly meshed and spinning(no syncro required to spin up the gears). It is also sequential so shifting through the gears in order without ability bypass a gear (other than neutral to second as neutral is half click between first and second). Julian ________________________________ From: Charles McCall <charlesmccall@gmail.com> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 11:56 AM To: 'Julian Kift'; 'Peter Menyhart'; 'pantera forum'; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content Julian-- educate me if you do''t mind. You say that motorcycle gearboxes are non syncromesh. My folks have a 1952 MG-TD that has syncromesh in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th, but not first. When you come to a stop, if you have''t come to a COMPLETE stop i''ll crunch when you put it in first. It wo''t crunch if you put it in second and I was told that this was due to the lack of syncromesh. If this is true, why does''t my bike crunch when putting it in first while still rolling? From: Julian Kift [mailto:julian_kift@hotmail.com] Sent: viernes, 29 de julio de 2016 17:10 To: Peter Menyhart; Charles McCall; pantera forum; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content Charles, I would postulate it is because a motorcycle gearbox is already a "race box", i.e. non syncromesh, dog box with straight cut gears, which is essentially the simplest and lightest gearbox you can get. Shifting without the clutch is fairly universal on race bikes and similar to race cars permitted by the straight cut gear design. Motorcycle clutches are now dry (whereas yours is probably a wet clutch) and much lighter design and I would only use the very lightest clutch pressure on my street bike (Ducati superbike) just to take the pressure off the gears. Julian ________________________________ From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso-bounces@server .detomasolist.com>> on behalf of Peter Menyhart <pmenyhart@msn.com<mailto:pmenyhart@msn.com>> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 5:29 AM To: Charles McCall; pantera forum Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content Interesting question, when I'm in Germany in september I'll ask my brother.He works in development at BMW Motorcycle and also races vintage Wankel bikes. I think your right,the weight gain is probably too much. Peter check out our website at: www.whitehorseranch.com<http://www.whitehorseranch.com> From: charlesmccall@gmail.com<mailto:charlesmccall@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 09:45:11 +0200 To: detomaso@detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@detomasolist.com> Subject: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content Motorcycle ramblings with a question at the end.... The weather has been absolutely fantastic here for the past few weeks, so I have been using my motorcycle for my daily commute to and from work. It's recently back on the road after more or less being in storage for 18 years. It is true that long term storage isn't good for vehicles - either cars or motorcycles. I filled the tank up with gas and it all ran right on the floor... hoses that had disintegrated with time. Got that repaired. The gas on the floor was mixing with a massive oil leak caused by a gasket on the cam tensioner that dried out and cracked. Got that fixed. I'm glad my motorcycle is air-cooled or I know what would be leaking now! We didn't get off to a good start this year! The motorcycle is a 1982 Suzuki GS650, nothing particularly special but with a lot of sentimental value. I bought it when I was 19 and a college sophomore. I'd never been on a motorcycle in my life - neither as a passenger nor a driver. I walked into the local Suzuki dealer and said "I like that one, I'll buy it!" and paid for it with my visa card, at 19.6% interest. And I wonder why it took me so long to pay off my college loans? ;-) We went to the parking lot and the salesman told me "This is the clutch, here's how you change gears, this is the front brake....have fun!" And I learned how to drive on the way home. Ah, youth! The motorcycle has been all over the place. I went to Cornell University, in upstate NY, and my girlfriend at the time went to Michigan, so it made the trip many times. It's attended Sturgis (despite being a Japanese bike, but I drove it there unlike many of the Harleys!) prowled the streets of Chicago, etc. But it got put into storage when I moved to Europe and took a long time to catch up to me. It recently was made road-worthy and is still wearing US plates, although I'll have to fix that over the next year. It is very difficult and very expensive to insure a vehicle in Europe with US plates. But for those from the US or Canada attending Le Mans Classic - -IT CAN BE DONE! Anyway, my question. The tendency in race cars and sports cars is moving away from a manual transmission to an automatic. I know that isn't quite true but don't really care if there is still technically a clutch or not - if there isn't a clutch pedal inside, then it's an automatic! Why hasn't the same thing happened with motorcycles? Because the shift time on a motorcycle is already so short? Do racers even use the clutch on a race bike? The weight associated with the mechanism is a larger percentage of a light bike as opposed to a car? Just wondering this morning, as it was a nice morning for a ride and as there's no radio my mind went wandering... _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com

http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. But most car transmissions also have all gears in constant mesh. You move a sleeve to connect one pair of gears to the axles at a time. One of the gears in each pair is constantly engaged to its axle. The difference has to be in how the gears engage and disengage to the axles Tomas <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-----> From: Julian Kift [julian_kift@hotmail.com] Sent: 29/7/2016 9:39:21 PM To: charlesmccall@gmail.com;pmenyhart@msn.com;detomaso@detomasolist.com;det omaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content Charlie, Yes the older British cars often lack a syncro in 1st (and reverse is not usually a syncro either). Shifting a non syncro requires getting the gears that are to be meshed spinning at roughly the same speed, best achieved via double clutching or knowing what revs to shift at (18 wheelers are all non syncro boxes, most truckers can shift without use of a clutch). You could try this in your folks MG-TD, i recommend some distance from their house until you have it down [😉?] The main difference in a motorcycle gearbox is it is a "constant mesh" i.e. all the gears are constantly meshed and spinning(no syncro required to spin up the gears). It is also sequential so shifting through the gears in order without ability bypass a gear (other than neutral to second as neutral is half click between first and second). Julian ________________________________ From: Charles McCall <charlesmccall@gmail.com> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 11:56 AM To: 'Julian Kift'; 'Peter Menyhart'; 'pantera forum'; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content Julian-- educate me if you do''t mind. You say that motorcycle gearboxes are non syncromesh. My folks have a 1952 MG-TD that has syncromesh in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th, but not first. When you come to a stop, if you have''t come to a COMPLETE stop i''ll crunch when you put it in first. It wo''t crunch if you put it in second and I was told that this was due to the lack of syncromesh. If this is true, why does''t my bike crunch when putting it in first while still rolling? From: Julian Kift [mailto:julian_kift@hotmail.com] Sent: viernes, 29 de julio de 2016 17:10 To: Peter Menyhart; Charles McCall; pantera forum; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content Charles, I would postulate it is because a motorcycle gearbox is already a "race box", i.e. non syncromesh, dog box with straight cut gears, which is essentially the simplest and lightest gearbox you can get. Shifting without the clutch is fairly universal on race bikes and similar to race cars permitted by the straight cut gear design. Motorcycle clutches are now dry (whereas yours is probably a wet clutch) and much lighter design and I would only use the very lightest clutch pressure on my street bike (Ducati superbike) just to take the pressure off the gears. Julian ________________________________ From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso-bounces@serve r.detomasolist.com>> on behalf of Peter Menyhart <pmenyhart@msn.com<mailto:pmenyhart@msn.com>> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 5:29 AM To: Charles McCall; pantera forum Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content Interesting question, when I'm in Germany in september I'll ask my brother.He works in development at BMW Motorcycle and also races vintage Wankel bikes. I think your right,the weight gain is probably too much. Peter check out our website at: www.whitehorseranch.com<http://www.whitehorseranch.com> From: charlesmccall@gmail.com<mailto:charlesmccall@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 09:45:11 +0200 To: detomaso@detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@detomasolist.com> Subject: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content Motorcycle ramblings with a question at the end.... The weather has been absolutely fantastic here for the past few weeks, so I have been using my motorcycle for my daily commute to and from work. It's recently back on the road after more or less being in storage for 18 years. It is true that long term storage isn't good for vehicles - either cars or motorcycles. I filled the tank up with gas and it all ran right on the floor... hoses that had disintegrated with time. Got that repaired. The gas on the floor was mixing with a massive oil leak caused by a gasket on the cam tensioner that dried out and cracked. Got that fixed. I'm glad my motorcycle is air-cooled or I know what would be leaking now! We didn't get off to a good start this year! The motorcycle is a 1982 Suzuki GS650, nothing particularly special but with a lot of sentimental value. I bought it when I was 19 and a college sophomore. I'd never been on a motorcycle in my life - neither as a passenger nor a driver. I walked into the local Suzuki dealer and said "I like that one, I'll buy it!" and paid for it with my visa card, at 19.6% interest. And I wonder why it took me so long to pay off my college loans? ;-) We went to the parking lot and the salesman told me "This is the clutch, here's how you change gears, this is the front brake....have fun!" And I learned how to drive on the way home. Ah, youth! The motorcycle has been all over the place. I went to Cornell University, in upstate NY, and my girlfriend at the time went to Michigan, so it made the trip many times. It's attended Sturgis (despite being a Japanese bike, but I drove it there unlike many of the Harleys!) prowled the streets of Chicago, etc. But it got put into storage when I moved to Europe and took a long time to catch up to me. It recently was made road-worthy and is still wearing US plates, although I'll have to fix that over the next year. It is very difficult and very expensive to insure a vehicle in Europe with US plates. But for those from the US or Canada attending Le Mans Classic - -IT CAN BE DONE! Anyway, my question. The tendency in race cars and sports cars is moving away from a manual transmission to an automatic. I know that isn't quite true but don't really care if there is still technically a clutch or not - if there isn't a clutch pedal inside, then it's an automatic! Why hasn't the same thing happened with motorcycles? Because the shift time on a motorcycle is already so short? Do racers even use the clutch on a race bike? The weight associated with the mechanism is a larger percentage of a light bike as opposed to a car? Just wondering this morning, as it was a nice morning for a ride and as there's no radio my mind went wandering... _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.co m> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.