Re: [DeTomaso] Laurie's vision of current topics (be warned ... long and tedious)

3 Jun 2016

      ...
Thank you Dick for your thoughts,
Let me clear up a misconception that refuses to die.
The former email forum had been changed from
 @realbig.com to @poca.com
at some some in the not too distant past.
The new website is hosted and uses a base programming
 supplied by
ClubExpress,
this is software, security, et al that we could never
 afford as a stand
alone club,
not for 5,000, 10,000 or even 20,000.
The website is not really located at www.poca.com, it
...
poca.clubexpress.com
and www.poca.com merely points to
 it.   Think of the website as
property,
it is a fixed thing at a fixed place, it is THERE, 
...
as a
street sign that says
poca.com,  one can always go into a neighborhood
 and move all the
street
signs around
124 Pine street can become 123 Alpine street overnight,
 but the house
is
still where it always was.
The email forum is not compatible with ClubExpress for
 lots of reasons,
software, etc.
The street sign can only point to one place, thus it
...
website.
and not the email forum.
Had the powers that be had left the email forum namen
 @realbig.com,
this
would never have been an issue.
That's first and foremost why the email forum had to go
 away.
If anybody owes the old email forum a debt of gratitude,
 it would be
me,
for after I left the club years ago,
it was my only contact with Pantera owners.
It was how everybody knew me and I seriously doubt that
 without being
one
of the top ten contributors
for the last 7 years that I would have had the name
 recognition to be
elected President.
Now having also said that, let me also say that the
 email forum was not
a
friend to POCA, it was and remains
a place of petty bickering, name calling and ignorance
...
few
that makes the whole look bad.
It always has attracted loudmouths and bullies and
 membership in the
club
suffered as a result.
It was like have Cousin Eddie be the welcoming committee
 at the Country
Club, after meeting him,
very few people decided to venture inside.
Cut to the present, with our name off the email forum,
 membership is
growing at a rate the club has not seen
in decades.
The new website has a better forum that is everything
...
not,
nor could it ever be.
All it needs is to be used by members, the email forum
 in its last week
as
poca.com had 27 users,
more than half were non members, those that were members
 represented
less
than 2% of POCA's membership.
New members in the last three weeks are 3x those members
 alone.
It was a solid decision, it was a necessary decision,
 for the new
website
would not exist if the email forum still did.
While it was picked up by somebody, even that was not
 done as agreed,
the
club honored it word and provided
what was agreed upon, the new email list admin did not
 honor the
agreement
for its adoption.
POCA is far better off without that forum in every
 measurable way,
membership and civility being the most important.
Michael Shortt
On Tue, May 31, 2016 at 9:55 AM, Dick Koch <redcatman74@gmail.com>
wrote:
...
  Mike, nice to see you stepping up and getting
 ahead of this, with
some
  good suggestions on how to improve the
 raffle.
  This is a case in point, where the savings
...
...
  newsletter did not have to be printed and
 mailed, part of those
savings
  could be used to fund some of the more
 expensive raffle items you
  mentioned.
  Also, with the elimination of the newsletter
...
...
expense,
  color graphics could be included at no
 expense to the club, improving
that
  publication content and readibility.
  In addition, rather than thinking of raising
...
...
the
  savings would allow the club to reduce the
 membership fee, while
offering
  an overall better product to it's customers,
...
...
  In my opinion, for what it is worth, the
...
...
the
  printing and mailing of the newsletter versus
 an improved, more
timely, and
  more efficient online delivery of the
...
...
  The net affect, following the old business
marketing axiom of the
...
price
  elasticity of demand, would be to set the
 stage for POCA to attract
more
  members, with the obvious affect of
 increasing the membership,
thereby
  increasing revenue to continue to provide
 more value add to the
membership
  as a whole, and spreading the "gospel" of the
 DeTomaso brand.
  One thing I believe is that underneath all
...
...
the
  direction the board is taking the club, is
...
...
improve
  the club,  what it offers it's members,
 and expand the uniqueness the
  DeTomaso brand.
  Make no mistake, I have not agreed with
 certain aspects of the
board's
  plans, more specifically discontinuing this
 email forum.  I
communicated
  that to the board and told them dropping
 ownership and support for
the
  forum was a mistake.
  As in the case of "market demand" and the
 generous efforts of some
very
  dedicated Pantera brethren, the forum was
 reconstituted. Who knows,
maybe
  the club will decide in the future it should
 be included under it's
banner.
  However, dropping this forum did not sway me
 from supporting the
board's
  overall plan to improve the POCA membership
 experience.
  Given the premise that everyone wants their
 club to improve that
  experience, there comes a time to put aside
 one's personnel
preferences,
  and to look at "the big picture" and what is
 in the best interest of
the
  club and the DeTomaso brand.
  As before, peace to all my cat brethren, and
 a closing thought from
  Abraham Lincoln:
  "We can complain because rose bushes have
...
...
thorn
  bushes have roses."
  Dick koch - Atlanta
  On May 30, 2016 9:41 PM, "Mike Burnett via
 DeTomaso" <
  detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
 wrote:
...
     Good evening ladies and
 everyone else on the forum, I would like
to
     express some thoughts
 about the
     raffle during this past
 Fun Rally.
     As Vice President of
 POCA it is my responsibility to do many
things as
     a Board member, but
 also be
     the Raffle Master at
...
...
...
     In reply to Laurie and
Effie's postings, I agree that the raffle
...
has
     considerable room for
 improvement. And even though
     this was my first POCA
 Raffle, I have been apart of many Car
Shows and
     other big motor car
 related events that
     included a raffle, but
 didn't want to reinvent the proverbial
wheel by
     changing anything about
...
...
...
As it
     turns out, there were
 quite a few things that could have helped
make it
     run smoother.
     On the one hand I am
...
...
...
with our
     vendors and my wife
 Chrissy
     spending four months
 hitting crafts fairs and sales ( her budget
from
     POCA was challenging)
 and through
     the generosity of our
 vendors and many others, we were able to
have
     almost $9,000.00 worth
 of raffle prizes.
     Unfortunately, if you
 were there, not many of the prizes were
bigger
     ticket in value,
 instead averaging $25.00
     to $40.00 including
 over 40 T-shirts on top of that. We did have
a
     good showing of bigger
 value items in the $200.00 to $530.00
     valuations.
     Even with a strong
 showing of raffle prizes and with lots of help
from
     Chrissy, Joe Stockstt (
 our POCA Secretary)
     Ed Mendez ( our POCA PR
 and Advertising lead) and even Michael
Shortt (
     our POCA President) and
 myself, the raffle
     went almost an hour and
 a half in a hot room (no air
conditioning)
     after a full day,
 banquet and cocktails.
     In spite of all our
 efforts to move things along....I'm sure it
seemed
     like the raffle that
 would never end!
     So, I will present a
 new plan for the Fun Rally Raffle to the
POCA
     Board at our July
 meeting. It will include
     having a general raffle
 where tickets will be drawn hourly all
day
     Saturday with winning
 numbers posted.
     Proposing to the Board
...
...
...
purchase not
     only some big ticket
     prizes ( TV, Blu-ray
...
...
...
for
     useful tools gauges,
 etc. that we all could use) but
     maybe some other items
 of interest like gift cards ( of real
value) or
     even plane tickets???
     Who knows, it is all on
...
...
...
to
     give me some input with
 your ideas.
     Thanks,
     Mike Burnett
     VP POCA
     -----Original
 Message-----
     From: Effie Richards
 <erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com>
     To: laurieferrari [1]laurieferrari@aol.com
 who
     Cc: detomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>;
 detomaso
     <detomaso@poca.com>
     Sent: Mon, May 30, 2016
 5:21 pm
     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso]
 Laurie's vision of current topics (be
warned
     ... long and tedious)
     Thank you so much for
 saying it so eloquently! Laurie's point of
you is
     well laid out and she
 is a Pantera owner for years and years and
a
     member of POCA for the
 same!
     I would like to agree
 with her proposed method of awarding the
prizes
     as well. Other car
 shows do it the same way by posting winners
ticket
     numbers and no one
 falls asleep. My husband ushered me out of the
room
     halfway through.
 Although Mike Burnett had a great sense of humor
while
     presenting the awards,
 after an hour or so, Robert could no
longer stay
     awake.
     The food was not good,
 I agree, but that's not the organizers'
fault,
     they did the best they
 could to give all all of us a good time.
     I would like to suggest
...
...
...
next
     year, with maps, a
 front leader, a middle leader and a tail
leader for
     those who were not able
 to make the traffic lights, like we
offered
     when we hosted in San
 Diego 2 years ago.
     I think we all learned
...
...
...

    corrections/improvements will be made for
 next year's rally.
     No matter what, I hope
 to see mailings of the Profiles since my
husband
     and others maybe, don't
 do email.
     Always remaining
 members of our POCA club, always!
     Sent from Effie's iPad
     > On May 30, 2016,
 at 2:14 AM, Laurie Ferrari via DeTomaso
     <[2]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
 wrote:
     >
     > Hello out there in
 Pantera Email Forum Land. Huge thanks to
Kurt as I
     > am another who has
 always loved our communication in this way.
     > For anyone who
 might be confused, just to be clear, I'm Laurie
     Basile/
     > aka Laurie Ferrari
 on here as that's my email name. I'm one in
the
     > same in case you
 are looking up any of my old postings in the
     archives,
     > which I don't
 advise.
     > I have some of my
 own thoughts on the new status of POCA.
     > While there's no
 question that a stock, unmodified, unmolested
     Pantera
     > is a rare and
 specially revered item, however the Pantera Club
(POCA)
     > and its Website is
 not to be confused with that same logic. The
Club
     > has needed
 modifications for far too long, most notably
     reconsideration
     > of modernization
 and efforts to offer more to the members, and
the
     > opening of paths
...
...
...
     > I think the main
 beef of the many members/lurkers who have been
     > complaining of
 late is due to the possible loss of the email
forum.
     > Yes? Or, some
...
...
...
energetic,
     > assertive,
...
...
...
meetings
     have
     > been open to
 members I must say I was truly shocked at the rude
and
     > unprofessional
 demeanor of some of the oldest of Board Members.
And
     > those on here who
 are seeking fault and trying to paint a
negative
     > picture of the new
...
...
...
     > so touchy and
 hypersensitive, you'd not have been able to
tolerate
     the
     > myriads of posted
 comments through the years that could be
considered
     > the most non
...
...
...
of
     > taunts and tongue
 in cheek comments on everything from gayness,
to
     > racial and
...
...
...
offensive) the
     > wing modifications
 on GT5 Panteras. ... Come on folks. What I
see
     > that is happening
 is that Mike Shortt's vision and those of the
     > progressive Board
 members is one that many have begged for.
That
     being
     > one of a more
...
...
...
(except
     for
     > our more private,
 less respectable ramblings on here) one
that's more
     > of a Class Act
 rather than a knitting party, and more
representative
     of
     > the rarity and
 beauty of our cars, the wealth of knowledge
     > and expertise of
 our members, and the generosity, helpfulness,
and
     > camaraderie of our
...
...
...
enacting,
     > remember....with
 Board and Chapter Representative approval, a
vision
     of
     > the possibilities
 and potential of our organization to be more
     > transparent as to
...
...
...
Those
     in
     > the know can not
 argue about the fact that this has been
something
     > sorely lacking in
...
...
...
election
     > fairness, and
 finances, i.e. comparative shopping for our
needs,
     > insurance,
...
...
...
     > For the few to
 make suggestions or even comments that Mr.
Shortt is a
     > bigot or the usual
 gay comments from the peanut gallery....
shame
     > on you! Those
 comments are just as untrue and inappropriate as
     they've
     > ever been on here.
 But we grin and bare it and realize any such
past
     > comments would
 never be posted if serious. Or those who make
such
     > comments can look
 up the definition of "Psychological
transference."
     I
     > personally think a
 "Thank You" is far more appropriate for all
the
     > time, effort, and
 changes Michael is trying to implement! When
the
     word
     > went out that
 races were wanted at the Fun Rally, the first
thing I
     > recall he did was
 make contact and plans for such. It's
ridiculous
     and
     > unacceptable for
 anyone to be rude and insulting to those doing
their
     > best to help us
 have a better organization.
     > I recently renewed
 my membership which I feel would be great if
it
     was
     > reduced a bit in
 cost (as it used to be) as I'd like the option
to
     get
     > only the "Profiles
 Magazine" in print form.. the Newsletter is
     > perfectly suited
 for an online reference... (again, my opinion)
and
     > which I seem to
 hear would save the club something like $26,000
a
     > year. On our new
 POCA Website I am able to look up old articles
in
     > Profiles...
 especially enjoy the ease of being able to find
ones
     about
     > my car and me,
 issue 2010 #1, and my SSCC synopsis, in 2000,
#3.
     That's
     > a whole lot easier
...
...
...
closet
     > filled with years
...
...
...
     > publications from
 POCA, and three other car clubs. I really
love the
     > idea of these
...
...
...
     modern
     > and convenient.
     > Insofar as the
 survey regarding POCA's Fun Rally...As always
there
     were
     > goods and not so
 goods. The good, naturally, is getting to see
and
     > socialize with old
 friends and meet new ones. The bad is that
the
     Plaza
     > remains to be, not
...
...
...
about
     > the new
 furnishings but I do know that the entire floor where
the
     > hospitality and
 banquet was held was covered in sheets over the
     > construction and
 warnings of potential injury....I kind of felt
early
     > on that it'd be a
 good idea, as a few others, to opt to stay at
the
     > Golden Nugget.
 It's right across the street and very nice! As
usual
     > though, at our
 event, the hospitality room opportunity with all
the
     > Club stores was
 and is always great. The sessions, especially
Scott
     > Mead's photography
 session was more than excellent. The run to
Mt.
     > Charles was
 beautiful. I didn't have a car there so I was so
grateful
     > to Lori Drew who
 hooked me up with a ride with a super nice
fellow
     from
     > PCNC, Bayani; many
...
...
...
something I'm
     > unable to compare
 easily as to the awfulness compared to any
past Fun
     > Rally. The Plaza
 buffets were generally decent in the past,
even used
     > to get a bottle of
 red and white wine on each table, but
something
     > definitely went
 amiss this year. As I was seated at a table
with
     Terry
     > Himes (Mars' space
 scientist) and friends, the best way to
describe
     the
     > salmon was freeze
 dried and suitable (almost) as astronaut
food. The
     > water was
 undrinkable, maybe tainted with some alien creatures,
toxic
     > chemicals, or
...
...
...
during
     > the banquet.
 Dessert, can't comment, didn't try. The raffle...
well
     > that's yet another
 story! I've been the one in the past who
once had
     > the job of
 recruiting prizes for months, organizing the
displays,
     > getting everything
 to Vegas, and then announcing the prizes at
     > the dinner and I
 vividly recall being reprimanded for how long
it
     took
     > to disseminate
...
...
...
to
     me,
     > i took a fraction
 of what happened this year.. which was in
ponderous
     > tortoise-like,
 multi-hours long, motion, so much to the fact
that I
     > literally made up
 for the previous two nights of lost sleep. I
mean
     > really, for
 hundreds of prizes from a few really nice car
related,
     > down to
 insignificant, and each prize announced in humorous but
     mostly
     > painful detail ...
 down to a slew of t-shirts, one by one...
and then
     > waiting for the
 comatose winner to notice or be nudged awake
that he
     or
     > she'd won and then
 have to walk what seemed like 3 blocks to
the
     podium
     > to claim the
...
...
...
presenter as I
     > know what a
 difficult and commendable job this is.. it's the
SYSTEM,
     > not the person! I
 know many of you like to poke fun at the
Corvette
     > Clan but .... the
 way they've done raffles, at least the
National
     > ones, is to post a
...
...
...
event,
     > people go over
...
...
...
prize
     from
     > those in charge.
 Or those so inclined can stay at the prize
area and
     > watch the tickets
 being drawn. All the contributors are posted
in
     > advance and the
 donors are thanked and acknowledged on banners,
     signs,
     > visuals, business
 cards, etc. There's always music and dancing
and
     > some sort of
 entertainment. We used to have music, karaoke, and
     > entertainment.
 What happened???
     > So in conclusion,
 I like both the old (forum) and the new
(POCA) and
     > hope that people
 will be more cordial and appreciative of the
efforts
     > of Michael and
...
...
...
     > Again much
 gratitude to Kurt and all involved for the Forum
being
     alive
     > and well. I am not
 in favor of the fact though that I very
recently
     > got a malicious
 malware bug that caused me to wipe out my
     > entire computer...
 and start over, not saying it was from
here.. BUT
     > I've never had
...
...
...
     Internet
     > security program
 installed. So I write with hopes that the
risks are
     > not found here!
     > Can't leave
 without a big hello to Nathan of the North. Always
     > great to hear from
 you and see your uplifting greetings. And to
Bob
     > Levitt...hope you
 remember me as I was out there on the Santa
Monica
     > pier to take
Looking for the "like" button.

Cheers,
Bill MooreIncendium SupplyCalgary

-------- Original message --------
From: marshall smith <marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net> 
Date: 2016-06-03  10:40 AM  (GMT-07:00) 
To: msm@portata.com, Michael Shortt <michaelsavga@gmail.com>, Dick Koch <redcatman74@gmail.com>, Dave <dave@damardirect.com> 
Cc: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com, detomaso@poca.com, "LaurieFerrari@aol.com" <laurieferrari@aol.com> 
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Laurie's vision of current topics (be warned ...
  long and tedious) 

Great quote!

Btw....I have oil filters for sale for $165.00.

M
--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 6/3/16, Dave <dave@damardirect.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Laurie's vision of current topics (be warned ... long and tedious)
 To: "msm@portata.com" <msm@portata.com>, "Michael Shortt" <michaelsavga@gmail.com>, "Dick Koch" <redcatman74@gmail.com>
 Cc: "detomaso@server.detomasolist.com" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>, "detomaso@poca.com" <detomaso@poca.com>, "LaurieFerrari@aol.com" <laurieferrari@aol.com>
 Date: Friday, June 3, 2016, 9:14 AM

 “The bitterness of poor quality
 remains long after the sweetness of low price is
 forgotten” – Benjamin Franklin

 IndyDave

 -----Original Message-----
 From: msm@portata.com
 [mailto:msm@portata.com]
 Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2016 3:30 PM
 To: Michael Shortt; Dick Koch
 Cc: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com;
 detomaso@poca.com;
 LaurieFerrari@aol.com
 Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Laurie's vision of current topics
 (be warned ... long and tedious)

 Let me clear up some clear up ...

 The email-based forum was setup years ago by Any Polling on
 a server he owned (realbig.com).  This forum is not and
 never was a POCA forum.  It was always open to
 everyone.

 After many years, Andy moved on to other things.  Asa
 Jay stepped up to maintain the forum along with his
 volunteer work on the POCA Store which he did for many
 years.  (A big thanks to Asa Jay and Andy for their
 many years of daily work on it.)  POCA also stepped up
 by contributing hosting services on the poca.com server,
 hence the name change from @realbig.com to @poca.com.

 We set up a modern web forum on poca.com, but it never got
 much traction.  Most people prefer getting email
 delivery over having to go to a web site.  Those that
 prefer web sites were already well established on the PI web
 forum.

 As far as the printer issue -- we have been down that road a
 few times over the years with a few different
 printers.  There is much more to printing than just
 putting ink on paper.  The printer needs to layout the
 pages for printing, assemble the printed pages in the right
 order, not lose any pages on any copy, staple/bind, ingest
 our mailing address list into their computers, create the
 labels, attach labels, and get everything to their local
 post office on time.

 Much of the work a printer does is not in the ink to paper
 step, so much of that work is a fixed cost that does not
 change much with print volume.  If some members opt for
 electronic delivery, there is not that much of a total cost
 reduction.  Jack and Mike have run the numbers with
 various printers.  They may be able to add some
 details.

 As with everything else in life, a high price does not
 guarantee good production/service, but a low price usually
 does lead to problems.

 ------ Original Message ------
 From: "Michael Shortt" <michaelsavga@gmail.com>
 To: "Dick Koch" <redcatman74@gmail.com>
 Cc: "detomaso@server.detomasolist.com"
 <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>;
 "detomaso@poca.com"
 <detomaso@poca.com>;
 "LaurieFerrari@aol.com"
 <laurieferrari@aol.com>
 Sent: 5/31/2016 8:21:55 AM
 Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Laurie's vision of current topics
 (be warned ...
 long and tedious)

 lives at
 think of poca.com
 points to the
 put forth by a
 the old one was
 that could be had if the
 printing and mailing
 the POCA membership fee,
 the POCA members..
 trade off on discontinuing
 publication is obvious.
 the comments made about
 that everyone wants to
 thorns, or rejoice because
 the Fun Rally.
 the way past POCA raffles have been run.
 proud that through my efforts in dealing
 that we use seed money from POCA to
 player and maybe a trip to harbor freight
 the table and I am asking for all of you
 that we have better organized run events
 things from this experience and
 that were forever encumbered with roadblocks.
 perhaps are not used to the no nonsense,
 personality of Michael Shortt. Well, as board
 direction of POCA, I say, if any of you are
 politically correct on here and greatest examples
 political insults, or the worst (personally
 professionally represented, respectable club
 people. I'd say Michael sees and is
 the inner workings of major POCA decisions.
 the past with regard to political issues,
 printing and so on.
 than searching my own computer room and
 old multi-curricular lesson plans and old
 publications being available ON LINE; it is quite
 the most appealing of choices. I don't know
 thanks Bayani! The banquet food was
 poisoned purposefully so people would buy liquor
 prizes at the banquet ... BUT...in good fairness
 prize... Good Lord! And I don't blame the
 list of winning tickets #s and during the
 periodically to see if they won, and get the
 those who work for us.
 that problem before and I did have an excellent
 pictures of you and your son upon your take
...
...
...
     > off for the
 Gumball Cross Country race way back when. Still
have them
     > saved somewhere
 and they were on my former POCA album. Btw
where are
     > those albums?
     > OK.... off and
 running and just might see lots of you at
Pantera
     > Palooza!
     > Cheerio,
     > Laurie
     >

...
...
...
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...
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     Posted emails must not
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     To manage your
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     Members who post to
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forward any
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...
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     or approve the
 archiving of list messages.
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  Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
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--
Michael L. Shortt
Savannah, Georgia
www.michaelshortt.com
michael@michaelshortt.com
912-232-9390
This email is protected by the Electronic Communications
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...
Thank you Dick for your thoughts,
Let me clear up a misconception that refuses to die.
The former email forum had been changed from
   @realbig.com to @poca.com
at some some in the not too distant past.
The new website is hosted and uses a base programming
   supplied by
ClubExpress,
this is software, security, et al that we could never
   afford as a stand
alone club,
not for 5,000, 10,000 or even 20,000.
The website is not really located at www.poca.com, it
...
poca.clubexpress.com
and www.poca.com merely points to
   it.   Think of the website as
property,
it is a fixed thing at a fixed place, it is THERE,
...
as a
street sign that says
poca.com,  one can always go into a neighborhood
   and move all the
street
signs around
124 Pine street can become 123 Alpine street overnight,
   but the house
is
still where it always was.
The email forum is not compatible with ClubExpress for
   lots of reasons,
software, etc.
The street sign can only point to one place, thus it
...
website.
and not the email forum.
Had the powers that be had left the email forum namen
   @realbig.com,
this
would never have been an issue.
That's first and foremost why the email forum had to go
   away.
If anybody owes the old email forum a debt of gratitude,
   it would be
me,
for after I left the club years ago,
it was my only contact with Pantera owners.
It was how everybody knew me and I seriously doubt that
   without being
one
of the top ten contributors
for the last 7 years that I would have had the name
   recognition to be
elected President.
Now having also said that, let me also say that the
   email forum was not
a
friend to POCA, it was and remains
a place of petty bickering, name calling and ignorance
...
few
that makes the whole look bad.
It always has attracted loudmouths and bullies and
   membership in the
club
suffered as a result.
It was like have Cousin Eddie be the welcoming committee
   at the Country
Club, after meeting him,
very few people decided to venture inside.
Cut to the present, with our name off the email forum,
   membership is
growing at a rate the club has not seen
in decades.
The new website has a better forum that is everything
...
not,
nor could it ever be.
All it needs is to be used by members, the email forum
   in its last week
as
poca.com had 27 users,
more than half were non members, those that were members
   represented
less
than 2% of POCA's membership.
New members in the last three weeks are 3x those members
   alone.
It was a solid decision, it was a necessary decision,
   for the new
website
would not exist if the email forum still did.
While it was picked up by somebody, even that was not
   done as agreed,
the
club honored it word and provided
what was agreed upon, the new email list admin did not
   honor the
agreement
for its adoption.
POCA is far better off without that forum in every
   measurable way,
membership and civility being the most important.
Michael Shortt
On Tue, May 31, 2016 at 9:55 AM, Dick Koch <redcatman74@gmail.com>
wrote:
...
Mike, nice to see you stepping up and getting
   ahead of this, with
some
 good suggestions on how to improve the
   raffle.
This is a case in point, where the savings
...
...
newsletter did not have to be printed and
   mailed, part of those
savings
 could be used to fund some of the more
   expensive raffle items you
 mentioned.
Also, with the elimination of the newsletter
...
...
expense,
 color graphics could be included at no
   expense to the club, improving
that
 publication content and readibility.
In addition, rather than thinking of raising
...
...
the
 savings would allow the club to reduce the
   membership fee, while
offering
 an overall better product to it's customers,
...
...
In my opinion, for what it is worth, the
...
...
the
 printing and mailing of the newsletter versus
   an improved, more
timely, and
 more efficient online delivery of the
...
...
The net affect, following the old business
marketing axiom of the
...
price
 elasticity of demand, would be to set the
   stage for POCA to attract
more
 members, with the obvious affect of
   increasing the membership,
thereby
 increasing revenue to continue to provide
   more value add to the
membership
 as a whole, and spreading the "gospel" of the
   DeTomaso brand.
One thing I believe is that underneath all
...
...
the
 direction the board is taking the club, is
...
...
improve
 the club,  what it offers it's members,
   and expand the uniqueness the
 DeTomaso brand.
Make no mistake, I have not agreed with
   certain aspects of the
board's
 plans, more specifically discontinuing this
   email forum.  I
communicated
 that to the board and told them dropping
   ownership and support for
the
 forum was a mistake.
As in the case of "market demand" and the
   generous efforts of some
very
 dedicated Pantera brethren, the forum was
   reconstituted. Who knows,
maybe
 the club will decide in the future it should
   be included under it's
banner.
However, dropping this forum did not sway me
   from supporting the
board's
 overall plan to improve the POCA membership
   experience.
Given the premise that everyone wants their
   club to improve that
 experience, there comes a time to put aside
   one's personnel
preferences,
 and to look at "the big picture" and what is
   in the best interest of
the
 club and the DeTomaso brand.
As before, peace to all my cat brethren, and
   a closing thought from
 Abraham Lincoln:
"We can complain because rose bushes have
...
...
thorn
 bushes have roses."
Dick koch - Atlanta
On May 30, 2016 9:41 PM, "Mike Burnett via
   DeTomaso" <
 detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
   wrote:
...
Good evening ladies and
everyone else on the forum, I would like
...
to
    express some thoughts
   about the
raffle during this past
   Fun Rally.
As Vice President of
   POCA it is my responsibility to do many
things as
    a Board member, but
   also be
the Raffle Master at
...
...
...
In reply to Laurie and
Effie's postings, I agree that the raffle
...
has
    considerable room for
   improvement. And even though
this was my first POCA
   Raffle, I have been apart of many Car
Shows and
    other big motor car
   related events that
included a raffle, but
   didn't want to reinvent the proverbial
wheel by
    changing anything about
...
...
...
As it
    turns out, there were
   quite a few things that could have helped
make it
    run smoother.
On the one hand I am
...
...
...
with our
    vendors and my wife
   Chrissy
spending four months
   hitting crafts fairs and sales ( her budget
from
    POCA was challenging)
   and through
the generosity of our
   vendors and many others, we were able to
have
    almost $9,000.00 worth
   of raffle prizes.
Unfortunately, if you
   were there, not many of the prizes were
bigger
    ticket in value,
   instead averaging $25.00
to $40.00 including
   over 40 T-shirts on top of that. We did have
a
    good showing of bigger
   value items in the $200.00 to $530.00
valuations.
Even with a strong
   showing of raffle prizes and with lots of help
from
    Chrissy, Joe Stockstt (
   our POCA Secretary)
Ed Mendez ( our POCA PR
   and Advertising lead) and even Michael
Shortt (
    our POCA President) and
   myself, the raffle
went almost an hour and
   a half in a hot room (no air
conditioning)
    after a full day,
   banquet and cocktails.
In spite of all our
   efforts to move things along....I'm sure it
seemed
    like the raffle that
   would never end!
So, I will present a
   new plan for the Fun Rally Raffle to the
POCA
    Board at our July
   meeting. It will include
having a general raffle
   where tickets will be drawn hourly all
day
    Saturday with winning
   numbers posted.
Proposing to the Board
...
...
...
purchase not
    only some big ticket
prizes ( TV, Blu-ray
...
...
...
for
    useful tools gauges,
   etc. that we all could use) but
maybe some other items
   of interest like gift cards ( of real
value) or
    even plane tickets???
Who knows, it is all on
...
...
...
to
    give me some input with
   your ideas.
Thanks,
Mike Burnett
VP POCA
-----Original
   Message-----
    From: Effie Richards
   <erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com>
    To: laurieferrari [1]laurieferrari@aol.com
   who
    Cc: detomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>;
   detomaso
    <detomaso@poca.com>
    Sent: Mon, May 30, 2016
   5:21 pm
    Subject: Re: [DeTomaso]
   Laurie's vision of current topics (be
warned
    ... long and tedious)
    Thank you so much for
   saying it so eloquently! Laurie's point of
you is
    well laid out and she
   is a Pantera owner for years and years and
a
    member of POCA for the
   same!
    I would like to agree
   with her proposed method of awarding the
prizes
    as well. Other car
   shows do it the same way by posting winners
ticket
    numbers and no one
   falls asleep. My husband ushered me out of the
room
    halfway through.
   Although Mike Burnett had a great sense of humor
while
    presenting the awards,
   after an hour or so, Robert could no
longer stay
    awake.
    The food was not good,
   I agree, but that's not the organizers'
fault,
    they did the best they
   could to give all all of us a good time.
    I would like to suggest
...
...
...
next
    year, with maps, a
   front leader, a middle leader and a tail
leader for
    those who were not able
   to make the traffic lights, like we
offered
    when we hosted in San
   Diego 2 years ago.
    I think we all learned
...
...
...
corrections/improvements will be made for
   next year's rally.
...
No matter what, I hope
to see mailings of the Profiles since my
...
husband
    and others maybe, don't
   do email.
    Always remaining
   members of our POCA club, always!
    Sent from Effie's iPad
    > On May 30, 2016,
   at 2:14 AM, Laurie Ferrari via DeTomaso
    <[2]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
   wrote:
    >
    > Hello out there in
   Pantera Email Forum Land. Huge thanks to
Kurt as I
    > am another who has
   always loved our communication in this way.
    > For anyone who
   might be confused, just to be clear, I'm Laurie
    Basile/
    > aka Laurie Ferrari
   on here as that's my email name. I'm one in
the
    > same in case you
   are looking up any of my old postings in the
    archives,
    > which I don't
   advise.
    > I have some of my
   own thoughts on the new status of POCA.
    > While there's no
   question that a stock, unmodified, unmolested
    Pantera
    > is a rare and
   specially revered item, however the Pantera Club
(POCA)
    > and its Website is
   not to be confused with that same logic. The
Club
    > has needed
   modifications for far too long, most notably
    reconsideration
    > of modernization
   and efforts to offer more to the members, and
the
    > opening of paths
...
...
...
> I think the main
beef of the many members/lurkers who have been
...
> complaining of
late is due to the possible loss of the email
...
forum.
    > Yes? Or, some
...
...
...
energetic,
    > assertive,
...
...
...
meetings
    have
    > been open to
   members I must say I was truly shocked at the rude
and
    > unprofessional
   demeanor of some of the oldest of Board Members.
And
    > those on here who
   are seeking fault and trying to paint a
negative
    > picture of the new
...
...
...
> so touchy and
hypersensitive, you'd not have been able to
...
tolerate
    the
    > myriads of posted
   comments through the years that could be
considered
    > the most non
...
...
...
of
    > taunts and tongue
   in cheek comments on everything from gayness,
to
    > racial and
...
...
...
offensive) the
    > wing modifications
   on GT5 Panteras. ... Come on folks. What I
see
    > that is happening
   is that Mike Shortt's vision and those of the
    > progressive Board
   members is one that many have begged for.
That
    being
    > one of a more
...
...
...
(except
    for
    > our more private,
   less respectable ramblings on here) one
that's more
    > of a Class Act
   rather than a knitting party, and more
representative
    of
    > the rarity and
   beauty of our cars, the wealth of knowledge
    > and expertise of
   our members, and the generosity, helpfulness,
and
    > camaraderie of our
...
...
...
enacting,
    > remember....with
   Board and Chapter Representative approval, a
vision
    of
    > the possibilities
   and potential of our organization to be more
    > transparent as to
...
...
...
Those
    in
    > the know can not
   argue about the fact that this has been
something
    > sorely lacking in
...
...
...
election
    > fairness, and
   finances, i.e. comparative shopping for our
needs,
    > insurance,
...
...
...
> For the few to
make suggestions or even comments that Mr.
...
Shortt is a
    > bigot or the usual
   gay comments from the peanut gallery....
shame
    > on you! Those
   comments are just as untrue and inappropriate as
    they've
    > ever been on here.
   But we grin and bare it and realize any such
past
    > comments would
   never be posted if serious. Or those who make
such
    > comments can look
   up the definition of "Psychological
transference."
    I
    > personally think a
   "Thank You" is far more appropriate for all
the
    > time, effort, and
   changes Michael is trying to implement! When
the
    word
    > went out that
   races were wanted at the Fun Rally, the first
thing I
    > recall he did was
   make contact and plans for such. It's
ridiculous
    and
    > unacceptable for
   anyone to be rude and insulting to those doing
their
    > best to help us
   have a better organization.
    > I recently renewed
   my membership which I feel would be great if
it
    was
    > reduced a bit in
   cost (as it used to be) as I'd like the option
to
    get
    > only the "Profiles
   Magazine" in print form.. the Newsletter is
    > perfectly suited
   for an online reference... (again, my opinion)
and
    > which I seem to
   hear would save the club something like $26,000
a
    > year. On our new
   POCA Website I am able to look up old articles
in
    > Profiles...
   especially enjoy the ease of being able to find
ones
    about
    > my car and me,
   issue 2010 #1, and my SSCC synopsis, in 2000,
#3.
    That's
    > a whole lot easier
...
...
...
closet
    > filled with years
...
...
...
> publications from
POCA, and three other car clubs. I really
...
love the
    > idea of these
...
...
...
modern
    > and convenient.
    > Insofar as the
survey regarding POCA's Fun Rally...As always
...
there
    were
    > goods and not so
   goods. The good, naturally, is getting to see
and
    > socialize with old
   friends and meet new ones. The bad is that
the
    Plaza
    > remains to be, not
...
...
...
about
    > the new
   furnishings but I do know that the entire floor where
the
    > hospitality and
   banquet was held was covered in sheets over the
    > construction and
   warnings of potential injury....I kind of felt
early
    > on that it'd be a
   good idea, as a few others, to opt to stay at
the
    > Golden Nugget.
   It's right across the street and very nice! As
usual
    > though, at our
   event, the hospitality room opportunity with all
the
    > Club stores was
   and is always great. The sessions, especially
Scott
    > Mead's photography
   session was more than excellent. The run to
Mt.
    > Charles was
   beautiful. I didn't have a car there so I was so
grateful
    > to Lori Drew who
   hooked me up with a ride with a super nice
fellow
    from
    > PCNC, Bayani; many
...
...
...
something I'm
    > unable to compare
   easily as to the awfulness compared to any
past Fun
    > Rally. The Plaza
   buffets were generally decent in the past,
even used
    > to get a bottle of
   red and white wine on each table, but
something
    > definitely went
   amiss this year. As I was seated at a table
with
    Terry
    > Himes (Mars' space
   scientist) and friends, the best way to
describe
    the
    > salmon was freeze
   dried and suitable (almost) as astronaut
food. The
    > water was
   undrinkable, maybe tainted with some alien creatures,
toxic
    > chemicals, or
...
...
...
during
    > the banquet.
   Dessert, can't comment, didn't try. The raffle...
well
    > that's yet another
   story! I've been the one in the past who
once had
    > the job of
   recruiting prizes for months, organizing the
displays,
    > getting everything
   to Vegas, and then announcing the prizes at
    > the dinner and I
   vividly recall being reprimanded for how long
it
    took
    > to disseminate
...
...
...
to
    me,
    > i took a fraction
   of what happened this year.. which was in
ponderous
    > tortoise-like,
   multi-hours long, motion, so much to the fact
that I
    > literally made up
   for the previous two nights of lost sleep. I
mean
    > really, for
   hundreds of prizes from a few really nice car
related,
    > down to
   insignificant, and each prize announced in humorous but
    mostly
    > painful detail ...
   down to a slew of t-shirts, one by one...
and then
    > waiting for the
   comatose winner to notice or be nudged awake
that he
    or
    > she'd won and then
   have to walk what seemed like 3 blocks to
the
    podium
    > to claim the
...
...
...
presenter as I
    > know what a
   difficult and commendable job this is.. it's the
SYSTEM,
    > not the person! I
   know many of you like to poke fun at the
Corvette
    > Clan but .... the
   way they've done raffles, at least the
National
    > ones, is to post a
...
...
...
event,
    > people go over
...
...
...
prize
    from
    > those in charge.
   Or those so inclined can stay at the prize
area and
    > watch the tickets
   being drawn. All the contributors are posted
in
    > advance and the
   donors are thanked and acknowledged on banners,
    signs,
    > visuals, business
   cards, etc. There's always music and dancing
and
    > some sort of
   entertainment. We used to have music, karaoke, and
    > entertainment.
   What happened???
    > So in conclusion,
   I like both the old (forum) and the new
(POCA) and
    > hope that people
   will be more cordial and appreciative of the
efforts
    > of Michael and
...
...
...
> Again much
gratitude to Kurt and all involved for the Forum
...
being
    alive
    > and well. I am not
   in favor of the fact though that I very
recently
    > got a malicious
   malware bug that caused me to wipe out my
    > entire computer...
   and start over, not saying it was from
here.. BUT
    > I've never had
...
...
...
Internet
    > security program
installed. So I write with hopes that the
...
risks are
    > not found here!
    > Can't leave
   without a big hello to Nathan of the North. Always
    > great to hear from
   you and see your uplifting greetings. And to
Bob
    > Levitt...hope you
   remember me as I was out there on the Santa
Monica
    > pier to take
Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
 Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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 http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso

 To manage your subscription (change email address,
 unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.

 Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
 forward any message posted here to all past, current, or
 future members of the list. They also grant the list owner
 permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving
 of list messages.
_______________________________________________

Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com
http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso

To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.

Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.

   Looking for the "like" button.

   Cheers,
   Bill Moore
   Incendium Supply
   Calgary

   -------- Original message --------
   From: marshall smith <marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net>
   Date: 2016-06-03 10:40 AM (GMT-07:00)
   To: msm@portata.com, Michael Shortt <michaelsavga@gmail.com>, Dick Koch
   <redcatman74@gmail.com>, Dave <dave@damardirect.com>
   Cc: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com, detomaso@poca.com,
   "LaurieFerrari@aol.com" <laurieferrari@aol.com>
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Laurie's vision of current topics (be warned
   ... long and tedious)
   Great quote!
   Btw....I have oil filters for sale for $165.00.
   M
   --------------------------------------------
   On Fri, 6/3/16, Dave <dave@damardirect.com> wrote:
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Laurie's vision of current topics (be warned
   ... long and tedious)
   To: "msm@portata.com" <msm@portata.com>, "Michael Shortt"
   <michaelsavga@gmail.com>, "Dick Koch" <redcatman74@gmail.com>
   Cc: "detomaso@server.detomasolist.com"
   <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>, "detomaso@poca.com"
   <detomaso@poca.com>, "LaurieFerrari@aol.com" <laurieferrari@aol.com>
   Date: Friday, June 3, 2016, 9:14 AM
   "The bitterness of poor quality
   remains long after the sweetness of low price is
   forgotten" - Benjamin Franklin
   IndyDave
   -----Original Message-----
   From: msm@portata.com
   [mailto:msm@portata.com]
   Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2016 3:30 PM
   To: Michael Shortt; Dick Koch
   Cc: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com;
   detomaso@poca.com;
   LaurieFerrari@aol.com
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Laurie's vision of current topics
   (be warned ... long and tedious)
   Let me clear up some clear up ...
   The email-based forum was setup years ago by Any Polling on
   a server he owned (realbig.com).  This forum is not and
   never was a POCA forum.  It was always open to
   everyone.
   After many years, Andy moved on to other things.  Asa
   Jay stepped up to maintain the forum along with his
   volunteer work on the POCA Store which he did for many
   years.  (A big thanks to Asa Jay and Andy for their
   many years of daily work on it.)  POCA also stepped up
   by contributing hosting services on the poca.com server,
   hence the name change from @realbig.com to @poca.com.
   We set up a modern web forum on poca.com, but it never got
   much traction.  Most people prefer getting email
   delivery over having to go to a web site.  Those that
   prefer web sites were already well established on the PI web
   forum.
   As far as the printer issue -- we have been down that road a
   few times over the years with a few different
   printers.  There is much more to printing than just
   putting ink on paper.  The printer needs to layout the
   pages for printing, assemble the printed pages in the right
   order, not lose any pages on any copy, staple/bind, ingest
   our mailing address list into their computers, create the
   labels, attach labels, and get everything to their local
   post office on time.
   Much of the work a printer does is not in the ink to paper
   step, so much of that work is a fixed cost that does not
   change much with print volume.  If some members opt for
   electronic delivery, there is not that much of a total cost
   reduction.  Jack and Mike have run the numbers with
   various printers.  They may be able to add some
   details.
   As with everything else in life, a high price does not
   guarantee good production/service, but a low price usually
   does lead to problems.
   ------ Original Message ------
   From: "Michael Shortt" <michaelsavga@gmail.com>
   To: "Dick Koch" <redcatman74@gmail.com>
   Cc: "detomaso@server.detomasolist.com"
   <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>;
   "detomaso@poca.com"
   <detomaso@poca.com>;
   "LaurieFerrari@aol.com"
   <laurieferrari@aol.com>
   Sent: 5/31/2016 8:21:55 AM
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Laurie's vision of current topics
   (be warned ...
   long and tedious)
   lives at
   think of poca.com
   points to the
   put forth by a
   the old one was
   that could be had if the
   printing and mailing
   the POCA membership fee,
   the POCA members..
   trade off on discontinuing
   publication is obvious.
   the comments made about
   that everyone wants to
   thorns, or rejoice because
   the Fun Rally.
   the way past POCA raffles have been run.
   proud that through my efforts in dealing
   that we use seed money from POCA to
   player and maybe a trip to harbor freight
   the table and I am asking for all of you
   that we have better organized run events
   things from this experience and
   that were forever encumbered with roadblocks.
   perhaps are not used to the no nonsense,
   personality of Michael Shortt. Well, as board
   direction of POCA, I say, if any of you are
   politically correct on here and greatest examples
   political insults, or the worst (personally
   professionally represented, respectable club
   people. I'd say Michael sees and is
   the inner workings of major POCA decisions.
   the past with regard to political issues,
   printing and so on.
   than searching my own computer room and
   old multi-curricular lesson plans and old
   publications being available ON LINE; it is quite
   the most appealing of choices. I don't know
   thanks Bayani! The banquet food was
   poisoned purposefully so people would buy liquor
   prizes at the banquet ... BUT...in good fairness
   prize... Good Lord! And I don't blame the
   list of winning tickets #s and during the
   periodically to see if they won, and get the
   those who work for us.
   that problem before and I did have an excellent
   pictures of you and your son upon your take
...
...
...
> off for the
Gumball Cross Country race way back when. Still
...
have them
    > saved somewhere
   and they were on my former POCA album. Btw
where are
    > those albums?
    > OK.... off and
   running and just might see lots of you at
Pantera
    > Palooza!
    > Cheerio,
    > Laurie
    >

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Michael L. Shortt
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www.michaelshortt.com
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Bill Moore

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