Dear AJ, I have always respected you and your opinions but in this case you are incorrect as far as the resignation of Jack DeRyke. I was on the Board of Directors' conference call where he was asked to stay and he adamantly refused to if the printer changed. Jack's resignation was specifically because of the change in printer! You can go research that phone conference call, or the minutes of the meeting, as the facts are saved. As far as Mike Haney's resignation, that was done by his Mrs. for their reasons which most likely were aligned with their parents. Laurie In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? asajay@asajay.com writes: The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.? However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the member's profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the board will? look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out of the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa? Jay Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired &? Shelley? Mar -----Original Message----- From: detomaso-request <detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com> To: detomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:00 am Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue 20 Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com You can reach the person managing the list at detomaso-owner@server.detomasolist.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..." Daily Detomaso List Digest Today's Topics: 1. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (marshallgsmith) 2. Re: De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! again $250K!! (Michael Cox) 3. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (Stephen) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:27:43 -0700 From: marshallgsmith <marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net> To: P6746@aol.com, asajay@asajay.com, detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic Message-ID: <sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405@email.android.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I have a couple questions Bob:
Calling this situation "multiple dues levels" seems to be making the issue too complex. There are some members that are opting to not have printed magazines mailed which should make those members eligible for a discount because of the savings. What is your estimate of the length of time that it would take the board to arrange for a vote of the membership to change the bylaws to allow for this discount? Who specifically made that apples-to-apples comparison you refer to? I agree that the editors should have the most influence ?on the process. ?However, our editors of both publications seem to have a hard time reporting to the members about ANY issues pertaining to the publication's themselves. Might that change in the near future or will radio silence be the norm here? Marshall Smith
Calling this situation "multiple dues levels" seems to be making the issue too complex. There are some members that are opting to not have
What is your estimate of the length of time that it would take the board to arrange for a vote of the membership to change the bylaws to allow for this discount? Who specifically made that apples-to-apples comparison you refer to? I agree that the editors should have the most influence ?on the
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00) To: asajay@asajay.com, detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic To use a cliche, we're working on it.? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.?? However, there are restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently? stand.? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels,? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or? amendments must be approved by the whole membership. The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would? continue as a print publication for all except foreign members who elect to? receive it digitally.? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is? so expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit? increases but not proportionately.?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online? printer and the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have? the most influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are? the ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular? basis. Bob Reid? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? asajay@asajay.com writes: The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.? However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the member's profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the board will? look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out of the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa? Jay Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired &? Shelley? Marie Spokane,? WA ****************************** http://w7tsc.org http://www.teampanteraracing.com _______________________________________________ Detomaso? Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5? Megabytes DeTomaso mailing? list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To? manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the? links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to? forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the? list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or? approve the archiving of list? messages. ?? To use a cliche, we're working on it. ?? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.? However, there are ?? restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently stand. ?? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels, ?? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club ?? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or ?? amendments must be approved by the whole membership. ?? The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would continue as a print ?? publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it ?? digitally. ?? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so ?? expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit ?? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit ?? increases but not proportionately. ?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer and ?? the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference ?? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run. ?? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have the most ?? influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are the ?? ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular ?? basis. ?? Bob Reid ?? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ?? asajay@asajay.com writes: ???? The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was ???? interested ???? in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for ???? me, ???? it's a wait and see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out ???? on ???? full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss. ???? However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs ???? properly.? I have more faith that the present board members will ???? properly investigate and sort it out for everyone. ???? I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's nice ???? to ???? just sit back and read a paper copy too.? It's also easier to ???? hand-off ???? to Sam so he can read it later.? How do you really fix that? ???? I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership ???? database might be able to include a "preference" as part of the ???? member's ???? profile or details.? Just as I can set an address and phone number, ???? if I ???? could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies, or both, ???? and ???? select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus Newsletter), ???? that might be ideal. ???? However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well ???? could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to ???? print ???? 50, or 10 (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the ???? board will look at as well. ???? Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from ???? more ???? than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA ???? changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter content that ???? in ???? essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For a guy that ???? appeared ???? to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and ???? it's ???? unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they ???? applied ???? to him. ???? For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers ???? -twice- ???? since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related to the DeRykes) got out ???? of ???? the business.? So the "family tie-in" previously eluded to, was not ???? a ???? factor in the resignations. ???? Just my $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) ???? Asa? Jay ???? Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired ???? &? Shelley Marie ???? Spokane, WA ???? ****************************** ???? http://w7tsc.org ???? http://www.teampanteraracing.com ???? _______________________________________________ ???? Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA ???? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes ???? DeTomaso mailing list ???? DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com ???? http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso ???? To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, ???? etc.) use the links above. ???? Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward ???? any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of ???? the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an ???? archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Dear AJ, I have always respected you and your opinions but in this case you are incorrect as far as the resignation of Jack DeRyke. I was on the Board of Directors' conference call where he was asked to stay and he adamantly refused to if the printer changed. Jack's resignation was specifically because of the change in printer! You can go research that phone conference call, or the minutes of the meeting, as the facts are saved. As far as Mike Haney's resignation, that was done by his Mrs. for their reasons which most likely were aligned with their parents. Laurie In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? [1]asajay@asajay.com writes: The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.? However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the member's profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the board will? look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out of the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa? Jay Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired &? Shelley? Mar -----Original Message----- From: detomaso-request <detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com> To: detomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:00 am Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue 20 Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to [2]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to detomaso-[4]request@server.detomasolist.com You can reach the person managing the list at detomaso-[5]owner@server.detomasolist.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..." Daily Detomaso List Digest Today's Topics: 1. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (marshallgsmith) 2. Re: De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! again $250K!! (Michael Cox) 3. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (Stephen) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:27:43 -0700 From: marshallgsmith <[6]marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net> To: [7]P6746@aol.com, [8]asajay@asajay.com, [9]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic Message-ID: <[10]sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405@email.android.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I have a couple questions Bob: printed magazines mailed which should make those members eligible for a discount because of the savings. process. ?However, our editors of both publications seem to have a hard time reporting to the members about ANY issues pertaining to the publication's themselves. Might that change in the near future or will radio silence be the norm here? Marshall Smith Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <[11]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00) To: [12]asajay@asajay.com, [13]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic To use a cliche, we're working on it.? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.?? However, there are restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently? stand.? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels,? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or? amendments must be approved by the whole membership. The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would? continue as a print publication for all except foreign members who elect to? receive it digitally.? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is? so expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit? increases but not proportionately.?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online? printer and the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have? the most influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are? the ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular? basis. Bob Reid? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? [14]asajay@asajay.com writes: The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.? However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the member's profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the board will? look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out of the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa? Jay Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired &? Shelley? Marie Spokane,? WA ****************************** [15]http://w7tsc.org [16]http://www.teampanteraracing.com _______________________________________________ Detomaso? Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5? Megabytes DeTomaso mailing? list [17]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [18]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To? manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the? links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to? forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the? list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or? approve the archiving of list? messages. ?? To use a cliche, we're working on it. ?? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.? However, there are ?? restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently stand. ?? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels, ?? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club ?? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or ?? amendments must be approved by the whole membership. ?? The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would continue as a print ?? publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it ?? digitally. ?? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so ?? expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit ?? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit ?? increases but not proportionately. ?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer and ?? the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference ?? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run. ?? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have the most ?? influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are the ?? ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular ?? basis. ?? Bob Reid ?? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ?? [19]asajay@asajay.com writes: ???? The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was ???? interested ???? in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for ???? me, ???? it's a wait and see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out ???? on ???? full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss. ???? However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs ???? properly.? I have more faith that the present board members will ???? properly investigate and sort it out for everyone. ???? I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's nice ???? to ???? just sit back and read a paper copy too.? It's also easier to ???? hand-off ???? to Sam so he can read it later.? How do you really fix that? ???? I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership ???? database might be able to include a "preference" as part of the ???? member's ???? profile or details.? Just as I can set an address and phone number, ???? if I ???? could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies, or both, ???? and ???? select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus Newsletter), ???? that might be ideal. ???? However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well ???? could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to ???? print ???? 50, or 10 (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the ???? board will look at as well. ???? Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from ???? more ???? than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA ???? changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter content that ???? in ???? essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For a guy that ???? appeared ???? to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and ???? it's ???? unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they ???? applied ???? to him. ???? For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers ???? -twice- ???? since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related to the DeRykes) got out ???? of ???? the business.? So the "family tie-in" previously eluded to, was not ???? a ???? factor in the resignations. ???? Just my $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) ???? Asa? Jay ???? Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired ???? &? Shelley Marie ???? Spokane, WA ???? ****************************** ???? [20]http://w7tsc.org ???? [21]http://www.teampanteraracing.com ???? _______________________________________________ ???? Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA ???? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes ???? DeTomaso mailing list ???? [22]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com ???? [23]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso ???? To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, ???? etc.) use the links above. ???? Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward ???? any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of ???? the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an ???? archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [24]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [25]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
p.s. In my experience with young people of the day, they are more adapted to and capable of reading electronic material than most adults I know. Many classrooms now use Ipads. Laurie I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? -----Original Message----- From: laurieferrari <laurieferrari@aol.com> To: detomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:57 am Subject: Re: resignations Dear AJ, I have always respected you and your opinions but in this case you are incorrect as far as the resignation of Jack DeRyke. I was on the Board of Directors' conference call where he was asked to stay and he adamantly refused to if the printer changed. Jack's resignation was specifically because of the change in printer! You can go research that phone conference call, or the minutes of the meeting, as the facts are saved. As far as Mike Haney's resignation, that was done by his Mrs. for their reasons which most likely were aligned with their parents. Laurie In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? asajay@asajay.com writes: The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.? However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the member's profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the board will? look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out of the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa? Jay Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired &? Shelley? Mar -----Original Message----- From: detomaso-request <detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com> To: detomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:00 am Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue 20 Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com You can reach the person managing the list at detomaso-owner@server.detomasolist.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..." Daily Detomaso List Digest Today's Topics: 1. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (marshallgsmith) 2. Re: De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! again $250K!! (Michael Cox) 3. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (Stephen) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:27:43 -0700 From: marshallgsmith <marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net> To: P6746@aol.com, asajay@asajay.com, detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic Message-ID: <sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405@email.android.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I have a couple questions Bob:
Calling this situation "multiple dues levels" seems to be making the issue too complex. There are some members that are opting to not have printed magazines mailed which should make those members eligible for a discount because of the savings. What is your estimate of the length of time that it would take the board to arrange for a vote of the membership to change the bylaws to allow for this discount? Who specifically made that apples-to-apples comparison you refer to? I agree that the editors should have the most influence ?on the process. ?However, our editors of both publications seem to have a hard time reporting to the members about ANY issues pertaining to the publication's themselves. Might that change in the near future or will radio silence be the norm here? Marshall Smith
Calling this situation "multiple dues levels" seems to be making the issue too complex. There are some members that are opting to not have
What is your estimate of the length of time that it would take the board to arrange for a vote of the membership to change the bylaws to allow for this discount? Who specifically made that apples-to-apples comparison you refer to? I agree that the editors should have the most influence ?on the
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00) To: asajay@asajay.com, detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic To use a cliche, we're working on it.? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.?? However, there are restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently? stand.? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels,? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or? amendments must be approved by the whole membership. The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would? continue as a print publication for all except foreign members who elect to? receive it digitally.? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is? so expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit? increases but not proportionately.?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online? printer and the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have? the most influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are? the ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular? basis. Bob Reid? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? asajay@asajay.com writes: The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.? However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the member's profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the board will? look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out of the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa? Jay Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired &? Shelley? Marie Spokane,? WA ****************************** http://w7tsc.org http://www.teampanteraracing.com _______________________________________________ Detomaso? Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5? Megabytes DeTomaso mailing? list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To? manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the? links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to? forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the? list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or? approve the archiving of list? messages. ?? To use a cliche, we're working on it. ?? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.? However, there are ?? restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently stand. ?? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels, ?? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club ?? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or ?? amendments must be approved by the whole membership. ?? The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would continue as a print ?? publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it ?? digitally. ?? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so ?? expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit ?? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit ?? increases but not proportionately. ?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer and ?? the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference ?? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run. ?? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have the most ?? influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are the ?? ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular ?? basis. ?? Bob Reid ?? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ?? asajay@asajay.com writes: ???? The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was ???? interested ???? in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for ???? me, ???? it's a wait and see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out ???? on ???? full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss. ???? However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs ???? properly.? I have more faith that the present board members will ???? properly investigate and sort it out for everyone. ???? I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's nice ???? to ???? just sit back and read a paper copy too.? It's also easier to ???? hand-off ???? to Sam so he can read it later.? How do you really fix that? ???? I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership ???? database might be able to include a "preference" as part of the ???? member's ???? profile or details.? Just as I can set an address and phone number, ???? if I ???? could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies, or both, ???? and ???? select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus Newsletter), ???? that might be ideal. ???? However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well ???? could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to ???? print ???? 50, or 10 (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the ???? board will look at as well. ???? Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from ???? more ???? than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA ???? changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter content that ???? in ???? essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For a guy that ???? appeared ???? to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and ???? it's ???? unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they ???? applied ???? to him. ???? For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers ???? -twice- ???? since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related to the DeRykes) got out ???? of ???? the business.? So the "family tie-in" previously eluded to, was not ???? a ???? factor in the resignations. ???? Just my $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) ???? Asa? Jay ???? Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired ???? &? Shelley Marie ???? Spokane, WA ???? ****************************** ???? http://w7tsc.org ???? http://www.teampanteraracing.com ???? _______________________________________________ ???? Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA ???? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes ???? DeTomaso mailing list ???? DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com ???? http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso ???? To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, ???? etc.) use the links above. ???? Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward ???? any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of ???? the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an ???? archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. p.s. In my experience with young people of the day, they are more adapted to and capable of reading electronic material than most adults I know. Many classrooms now use Ipads. Laurie I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? -----Original Message----- From: laurieferrari <laurieferrari@aol.com> To: detomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:57 am Subject: Re: resignations Dear AJ, I have always respected you and your opinions but in this case you are incorrect as far as the resignation of Jack DeRyke. I was on the Board of Directors' conference call where he was asked to stay and he adamantly refused to if the printer changed. Jack's resignation was specifically because of the change in printer! You can go research that phone conference call, or the minutes of the meeting, as the facts are saved. As far as Mike Haney's resignation, that was done by his Mrs. for their reasons which most likely were aligned with their parents. Laurie In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? [1]asajay@asajay.com writes: The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.? However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the member's profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the board will? look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out of the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa? Jay Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired &? Shelley? Mar -----Original Message----- From: detomaso-request <detomaso-[2]request@server.detomasolist.com> To: detomaso <[3]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:00 am Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue 20 Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to [4]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit [5]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to detomaso-[6]request@server.detomasolist.com You can reach the person managing the list at detomaso-[7]owner@server.detomasolist.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..." Daily Detomaso List Digest Today's Topics: 1. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (marshallgsmith) 2. Re: De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! again $250K!! (Michael Cox) 3. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (Stephen) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:27:43 -0700 From: marshallgsmith <[8]marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net> To: [9]P6746@aol.com, [10]asajay@asajay.com, [11]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic Message-ID: <[12]sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405@email.android.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I have a couple questions Bob: printed magazines mailed which should make those members eligible for a discount because of the savings. process. ?However, our editors of both publications seem to have a hard time reporting to the members about ANY issues pertaining to the publication's themselves. Might that change in the near future or will radio silence be the norm here? Marshall Smith Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <[13]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00) To: [14]asajay@asajay.com, [15]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic To use a cliche, we're working on it.? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.?? However, there are restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently? stand.? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels,? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or? amendments must be approved by the whole membership. The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would? continue as a print publication for all except foreign members who elect to? receive it digitally.? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is? so expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit? increases but not proportionately.?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online? printer and the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have? the most influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are? the ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular? basis. Bob Reid? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? [16]asajay@asajay.com writes: The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.? However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the member's profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the board will? look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out of the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa? Jay Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired &? Shelley? Marie Spokane,? WA ****************************** [17]http://w7tsc.org [18]http://www.teampanteraracing.com _______________________________________________ Detomaso? Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5? Megabytes DeTomaso mailing? list [19]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [20]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To? manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the? links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to? forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the? list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or? approve the archiving of list? messages. ?? To use a cliche, we're working on it. ?? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.? However, there are ?? restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently stand. ?? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels, ?? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club ?? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or ?? amendments must be approved by the whole membership. ?? The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would continue as a print ?? publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it ?? digitally. ?? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so ?? expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit ?? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit ?? increases but not proportionately. ?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer and ?? the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference ?? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run. ?? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have the most ?? influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are the ?? ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular ?? basis. ?? Bob Reid ?? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ?? [21]asajay@asajay.com writes: ???? The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was ???? interested ???? in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for ???? me, ???? it's a wait and see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out ???? on ???? full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss. ???? However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs ???? properly.? I have more faith that the present board members will ???? properly investigate and sort it out for everyone. ???? I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's nice ???? to ???? just sit back and read a paper copy too.? It's also easier to ???? hand-off ???? to Sam so he can read it later.? How do you really fix that? ???? I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership ???? database might be able to include a "preference" as part of the ???? member's ???? profile or details.? Just as I can set an address and phone number, ???? if I ???? could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies, or both, ???? and ???? select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus Newsletter), ???? that might be ideal. ???? However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well ???? could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to ???? print ???? 50, or 10 (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the ???? board will look at as well. ???? Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from ???? more ???? than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA ???? changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter content that ???? in ???? essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For a guy that ???? appeared ???? to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and ???? it's ???? unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they ???? applied ???? to him. ???? For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers ???? -twice- ???? since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related to the DeRykes) got out ???? of ???? the business.? So the "family tie-in" previously eluded to, was not ???? a ???? factor in the resignations. ???? Just my $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) ???? Asa? Jay ???? Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired ???? &? Shelley Marie ???? Spokane, WA ???? ****************************** ???? [22]http://w7tsc.org ???? [23]http://www.teampanteraracing.com ???? _______________________________________________ ???? Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA ???? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes ???? DeTomaso mailing list ???? [24]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com ???? [25]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso ???? To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, ???? etc.) use the links above. ???? Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward ???? any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of ???? the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an ???? archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [26]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [27]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
Laurie, The same young people spend the rest of the day glued to their smart phones unaware of the physical world around them. I suspect they also have no interest in cars unless the cars are in a video game. They have one foot in the Matrix and would not object to living in virtual realty if that could be arranged. I worry about the future of mankind. Ken From: Laurie Ferrari via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To: laurieferrari@aol.com; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 10:10 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sam p.s. In my experience with young people of the day, they are more adapted to and capable of reading electronic material than most adults I know. Many classrooms now use Ipads. Laurie I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? -----Original Message----- From: laurieferrari <laurieferrari@aol.com> To: detomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:57 am Subject: Re: resignations Dear AJ, I have always respected you and your opinions but in this case you are incorrect as far as the resignation of Jack DeRyke. I was on the Board of Directors' conference call where he was asked to stay and he adamantly refused to if the printer changed. Jack's resignation was specifically because of the change in printer! You can go research that phone conference call, or the minutes of the meeting, as the facts are saved. As far as Mike Haney's resignation, that was done by his Mrs. for their reasons which most likely were aligned with their parents. Laurie In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? [1]asajay@asajay.com writes: The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.? However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the member's profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the board will? look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out of the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa? Jay Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired &? Shelley? Mar -----Original Message----- From: detomaso-request <detomaso-[2]request@server.detomasolist.com> To: detomaso <[3]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:00 am Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue 20 Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to [4]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit [5]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to detomaso-[6]request@server.detomasolist.com You can reach the person managing the list at detomaso-[7]owner@server.detomasolist.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..." Daily Detomaso List Digest Today's Topics: 1. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (marshallgsmith) 2. Re: De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! again $250K!! (Michael Cox) 3. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (Stephen) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:27:43 -0700 From: marshallgsmith <[8]marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net> To: [9]P6746@aol.com, [10]asajay@asajay.com, [11]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic Message-ID: <[12]sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405@email.android.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I have a couple questions Bob: > Calling this situation "multiple dues levels" seems to be making the issue too complex. There are some members that are opting to not have printed magazines mailed which should make those members eligible for a discount because of the savings. > What is your estimate of the length of time that it would take the board to arrange for a vote of the membership to change the bylaws to allow for this discount? > Who specifically made that apples-to-apples comparison you refer to? > I agree that the editors should have the most influence ?on the process. ?However, our editors of both publications seem to have a hard time reporting to the members about ANY issues pertaining to the publication's themselves. Might that change in the near future or will radio silence be the norm here? Marshall Smith Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <[13]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00) To: [14]asajay@asajay.com, [15]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic To use a cliche, we're working on it.? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.?? However, there are restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently? stand.? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels,? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or? amendments must be approved by the whole membership. The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would? continue as a print publication for all except foreign members who elect to? receive it digitally.? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is? so expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit? increases but not proportionately.?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online? printer and the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have? the most influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are? the ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular? basis. Bob Reid? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? [16]asajay@asajay.com writes: The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.? However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the member's profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the board will? look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out of the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa? Jay Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired &? Shelley? Marie Spokane,? WA ****************************** [17]http://w7tsc.org/ [18]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/ _______________________________________________ Detomaso? Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5? Megabytes DeTomaso mailing? list [19]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [20]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To? manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the? links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to? forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the? list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or? approve the archiving of list? messages. ?? To use a cliche, we're working on it. ?? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.? However, there are ?? restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently stand. ?? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels, ?? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club ?? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or ?? amendments must be approved by the whole membership. ?? The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would continue as a print ?? publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it ?? digitally. ?? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so ?? expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit ?? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit ?? increases but not proportionately. ?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer and ?? the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference ?? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run. ?? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have the most ?? influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are the ?? ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular ?? basis. ?? Bob Reid ?? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ?? [21]asajay@asajay.com writes: ???? The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was ???? interested ???? in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for ???? me, ???? it's a wait and see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out ???? on ???? full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss. ???? However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs ???? properly.? I have more faith that the present board members will ???? properly investigate and sort it out for everyone. ???? I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's nice ???? to ???? just sit back and read a paper copy too.? It's also easier to ???? hand-off ???? to Sam so he can read it later.? How do you really fix that? ???? I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership ???? database might be able to include a "preference" as part of the ???? member's ???? profile or details.? Just as I can set an address and phone number, ???? if I ???? could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies, or both, ???? and ???? select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus Newsletter), ???? that might be ideal. ???? However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well ???? could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to ???? print ???? 50, or 10 (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the ???? board will look at as well. ???? Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from ???? more ???? than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA ???? changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter content that ???? in ???? essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For a guy that ???? appeared ???? to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and ???? it's ???? unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they ???? applied ???? to him. ???? For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers ???? -twice- ???? since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related to the DeRykes) got out ???? of ???? the business.? So the "family tie-in" previously eluded to, was not ???? a ???? factor in the resignations. ???? Just my $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) ???? Asa? Jay ???? Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired ???? &? Shelley Marie ???? Spokane, WA ???? ****************************** ???? [22]http://w7tsc.org/ ???? [23]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/ ???? _______________________________________________ ???? Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA ???? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes ???? DeTomaso mailing list ???? [24]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com ???? [25]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso ???? To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, ???? etc.) use the links above. ???? Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward ???? any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of ???? the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an ???? archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [26]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [27]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Laurie, The same young people spend the rest of the day glued to their smart phones unaware of the physical world around them. I suspect they also have no interest in cars unless the cars are in a video game. They have one foot in the Matrix and would not object to living in virtual realty if that could be arranged. I worry about the future of mankind. Ken __________________________________________________________________ From: Laurie Ferrari via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To: laurieferrari@aol.com; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 10:10 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sam p.s. In my experience with young people of the day, they are more adapted to and capable of reading electronic material than most adults I know. Many classrooms now use Ipads. Laurie I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? -----Original Message----- From: laurieferrari <[1]laurieferrari@aol.com> To: detomaso <[2]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:57 am Subject: Re: resignations Dear AJ, I have always respected you and your opinions but in this case you are incorrect as far as the resignation of Jack DeRyke. I was on the Board of Directors' conference call where he was asked to stay and he adamantly refused to if the printer changed. Jack's resignation was specifically because of the change in printer! You can go research that phone conference call, or the minutes of the meeting, as the facts are saved. As far as Mike Haney's resignation, that was done by his Mrs. for their reasons which most likely were aligned with their parents. Laurie In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? [1][3]asajay@asajay.com writes: The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.? However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the member's profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the board will? look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out of the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa? Jay Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired &? Shelley? Mar -----Original Message----- From: detomaso-request <detomaso-[2][4]request@server.detomasolist.com> To: detomaso <[3][5]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:00 am Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue 20 Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to [4][6]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit [5][7]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to detomaso-[6][8]request@server.detomasolist.com You can reach the person managing the list at detomaso-[7][9]owner@server.detomasolist.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..." Daily Detomaso List Digest Today's Topics: 1. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (marshallgsmith) 2. Re: De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! again $250K!! (Michael Cox) 3. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (Stephen) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:27:43 -0700 From: marshallgsmith <[8][10]marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net> To: [9][11]P6746@aol.com, [10][12]asajay@asajay.com, [11][13]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic Message-ID: <[12][14]sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405@email.android.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I have a couple questions Bob: > Calling this situation "multiple dues levels" seems to be making the issue too complex. There are some members that are opting to not have printed magazines mailed which should make those members eligible for a discount because of the savings. > What is your estimate of the length of time that it would take the board to arrange for a vote of the membership to change the bylaws to allow for this discount? > Who specifically made that apples-to-apples comparison you refer to? > I agree that the editors should have the most influence ?on the process. ?However, our editors of both publications seem to have a hard time reporting to the members about ANY issues pertaining to the publication's themselves. Might that change in the near future or will radio silence be the norm here? Marshall Smith Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <[13][15]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00) To: [14][16]asajay@asajay.com, [15][17]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic To use a cliche, we're working on it.? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.?? However, there are restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently? stand.? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels,? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or? amendments must be approved by the whole membership. The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would? continue as a print publication for all except foreign members who elect to? receive it digitally.? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is? so expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit? increases but not proportionately.?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online? printer and the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have? the most influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are? the ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular? basis. Bob Reid? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? [16][18]asajay@asajay.com writes: The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.? However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the member's profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the board will? look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out of the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa? Jay Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired &? Shelley? Marie Spokane,? WA ****************************** [17][19]http://w7tsc.org/ [18][20]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/ _______________________________________________ Detomaso? Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5? Megabytes DeTomaso mailing? list [19][21]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [20][22]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To? manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the? links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to? forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the? list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or? approve the archiving of list? messages. ?? To use a cliche, we're working on it. ?? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.? However, there are ?? restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently stand. ?? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels, ?? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club ?? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or ?? amendments must be approved by the whole membership. ?? The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would continue as a print ?? publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it ?? digitally. ?? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so ?? expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit ?? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit ?? increases but not proportionately. ?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer and ?? the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference ?? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run. ?? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have the most ?? influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are the ?? ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular ?? basis. ?? Bob Reid ?? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ?? [21][23]asajay@asajay.com writes: ???? The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was ???? interested ???? in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for ???? me, ???? it's a wait and see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out ???? on ???? full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss. ???? However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs ???? properly.? I have more faith that the present board members will ???? properly investigate and sort it out for everyone. ???? I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's nice ???? to ???? just sit back and read a paper copy too.? It's also easier to ???? hand-off ???? to Sam so he can read it later.? How do you really fix that? ???? I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership ???? database might be able to include a "preference" as part of the ???? member's ???? profile or details.? Just as I can set an address and phone number, ???? if I ???? could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies, or both, ???? and ???? select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus Newsletter), ???? that might be ideal. ???? However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well ???? could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to ???? print ???? 50, or 10 (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the ???? board will look at as well. ???? Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from ???? more ???? than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA ???? changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter content that ???? in ???? essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For a guy that ???? appeared ???? to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and ???? it's ???? unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they ???? applied ???? to him. ???? For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers ???? -twice- ???? since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related to the DeRykes) got out ???? of ???? the business.? So the "family tie-in" previously eluded to, was not ???? a ???? factor in the resignations. ???? Just my $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) ???? Asa? Jay ???? Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired ???? &? Shelley Marie ???? Spokane, WA ???? ****************************** ???? [22][24]http://w7tsc.org/ ???? [23][25]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/ ???? _______________________________________________ ???? Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA ???? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes ???? DeTomaso mailing list ???? [24][26]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com ???? [25][27]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso ???? To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, ???? etc.) use the links above. ???? Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward ???? any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of ???? the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an ???? archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [26][28]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [27][29]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
Ken (et al),
My dad said the same thing about me listening too much to Beatle music. LOL ;-)
Then I started a band and played with people like Bob Seger (Seger System), Amboy Dukes, and the Scott
Richard Case all over southern Michigan. Brought in some cash doing it too.
The kids that I work with, and even hire (20 something millennial's) do seem to spend too much time
with their phones constantly. But when I nailed them down about it, they said they are keeping in-touch
with their friends. They all have formed a group of new-hires and keep in-touch constantly. Seems weird to
me, but that is their social network. They plan all week for their outdoors trips on the weekend.
They go to the Sequoia Nat'l forest, Kings Canyon, and Sierra Nevada mountains almost EVERY weekend. They
go hiking, rock-climbing, camping, and in winter skiing. Last weekend them climbed Mt Whitney. Outstanding.
My 17 year old grandson is addicted to video games. But he is a straight "A" student, plays soccer and Lacrosse
all weekend, and will graduate high-school with almost an "Associates Degree" from the local college courses he takes.
So, whenever, I think the world is going "to hell innna hand basket" I step back and think, maybe it's just different than
when I grew up. I think kids today are amazing. And smart.
Just my opinion.
Terry
"A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan,
stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!"
Terry W. Himes
JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Dawn Spacecraft Team
Rosetta Sequence Team Lead
Phone: (818) 393-6261
Cell: (818) 653-8213
Fax: (818) 393-3147
thimes@jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:thimes@jpl.nasa.gov>
🇺🇸
From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com>> on behalf of Ken Green via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>>
Reply-To: Ken Green <kenn_green@yahoo.com<mailto:kenn_green@yahoo.com>>
Date: Monday, August 15, 2016 10:58 AM
To: "laurieferrari@aol.com<mailto:laurieferrari@aol.com>" <laurieferrari@aol.com<mailto:laurieferrari@aol.com>>, "detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sam
Laurie,
The same young people spend the rest of the day glued to their smart phones unaware of the physical world around them. I suspect they also have no interest in cars unless the cars are in a video game. They have one foot in the Matrix and would not object to living in virtual realty if that could be arranged. I worry about the future of mankind.
Ken
From: Laurie Ferrari via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>>
To: laurieferrari@aol.com<mailto:laurieferrari@aol.com>; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 10:10 AM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sam
p.s. In my experience with young people of the day, they are more
adapted to and capable of reading electronic material than most adults
I know. Many classrooms now use Ipads.
Laurie
I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice
to
just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to
hand-off
to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that?
-----Original Message-----
From: laurieferrari <laurieferrari@aol.com<mailto:laurieferrari@aol.com>>
To: detomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>>
Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:57 am
Subject: Re: resignations
Dear AJ,
I have always respected you and your opinions but in this case you are
incorrect as far as the resignation of Jack DeRyke. I was on the Board
of Directors' conference call where he was asked to stay and he
adamantly refused to if the printer changed. Jack's resignation was
specifically because of the change in printer! You can go research
that phone conference call, or the minutes of the meeting, as the facts
are saved. As far as Mike Haney's resignation, that was done by his
Mrs. for their reasons which most likely were aligned with their
parents.
Laurie
In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,?
[1]asajay@asajay.com<mailto:asajay@asajay.com> writes:
The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was
interested
in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for
me,
it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing
out on
full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.?
However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs
properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will
properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone.
I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice
to
just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to
hand-off
to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that?
I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership
database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the
member's
profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number,
if I
could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both,
and
select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus
Newsletter),
that might be ideal.
However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well
could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to
print
50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the
board will? look at as well.
Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from
more
than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA
changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that
in
essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that
appeared
to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and
it's
unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they
applied
to him.
For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers
-twice-
since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out
of
the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not
a
factor in the resignations.
Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation)
Asa? Jay
Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
&? Shelley? Mar
-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-request <detomaso-[2]request@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:request@server.detomasolist.com>>
To: detomaso <[3]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>>
Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:00 am
Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue 20
Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to
[4]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..."
Daily Detomaso List Digest
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (marshallgsmith)
2. Re: De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! again $250K!! (Michael Cox)
3. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (Stephen)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:27:43 -0700
From: marshallgsmith <[8]marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net<mailto:marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net>>
To: [9]P6746@aol.com<mailto:P6746@aol.com>, [10]asajay@asajay.com<mailto:asajay@asajay.com>,
[11]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic
Message-ID:
<[12]sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405@email.android.com<mailto:sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405@email.android.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I have a couple questions Bob:
> Calling this situation "multiple dues levels" seems to be making the
issue too complex. There are some members that are opting to not have
printed magazines mailed which should make those members eligible for a
discount because of the savings.
> What is your estimate of the length of time that it would take the
board to arrange for a vote of the membership to change the bylaws to
allow for this discount?
> Who specifically made that apples-to-apples comparison you refer to?
> I agree that the editors should have the most influence ?on the
process. ?However, our editors of both publications seem to have a hard
time reporting to the members about ANY issues pertaining to the
publication's themselves. Might that change in the near future or will
radio silence be the norm here?
Marshall Smith
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <[13]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>>
Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: [14]asajay@asajay.com<mailto:asajay@asajay.com>, [15]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic
To use a cliche, we're working on it.?
Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.?? However, there
are
restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently? stand.?
There
are no provisions for multiple dues levels,? particularly pertaining to
how a
member elects to have their club? publications delivered, etc.? That
will
take time as any changes or? amendments must be approved by the whole
membership.
The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would? continue as a print
publication for all except foreign members who elect to? receive it
digitally.?
As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is? so
expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit?
cost.? So as
fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit? increases but
not
proportionately.??
An apples to apples comparison was made between an online? printer and
the
current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference? was
pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.?
As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have? the most
influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are? the
ones who
must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular? basis.
Bob Reid?
In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,?
[16]asajay@asajay.com<mailto:asajay@asajay.com> writes:
The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was
interested
in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me,
it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out
on
full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.?
However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs
properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will
properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone.
I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to
just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off
to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that?
I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership
database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the
member's
profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if
I
could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both,
and
select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter),
that might be ideal.
However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well
could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to
print
50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the
board will? look at as well.
Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from
more
than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA
changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that in
essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that
appeared
to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's
unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they
applied
to him.
For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers -twice-
since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out of
the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not a
factor in the resignations.
Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation)
Asa? Jay
Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
&? Shelley? Marie
Spokane,? WA
******************************
[17]http://w7tsc.org/
[18]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
_______________________________________________
Detomaso? Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5? Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing? list
[19]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
[20]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To? manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use
the? links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to? forward any
message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the?
list. They
also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or? approve
the
archiving of list? messages.
?? To use a cliche, we're working on it.
?? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.? However, there
are
?? restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently stand.
?? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels,
?? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club
?? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or
?? amendments must be approved by the whole membership.
?? The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would continue as a
print
?? publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it
?? digitally.
?? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so
?? expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit
?? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit
?? increases but not proportionately.
?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer
and
?? the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference
?? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.
?? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have the most
?? influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are
the
?? ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular
?? basis.
?? Bob Reid
?? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
?? [21]asajay@asajay.com<mailto:asajay@asajay.com> writes:
???? The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was
???? interested
???? in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for
???? me,
???? it's a wait and see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing
out
???? on
???? full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.
???? However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs
???? properly.? I have more faith that the present board members will
???? properly investigate and sort it out for everyone.
???? I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's
nice
???? to
???? just sit back and read a paper copy too.? It's also easier to
???? hand-off
???? to Sam so he can read it later.? How do you really fix that?
???? I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership
???? database might be able to include a "preference" as part of the
???? member's
???? profile or details.? Just as I can set an address and phone
number,
???? if I
???? could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies, or
both,
???? and
???? select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus
Newsletter),
???? that might be ideal.
???? However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very
well
???? could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to
???? print
???? 50, or 10 (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations
the
???? board will look at as well.
???? Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from
???? more
???? than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA
???? changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter content
that
???? in
???? essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For a guy that
???? appeared
???? to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and
???? it's
???? unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they
???? applied
???? to him.
???? For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers
???? -twice-
???? since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related to the DeRykes) got
out
???? of
???? the business.? So the "family tie-in" previously eluded to, was
not
???? a
???? factor in the resignations.
???? Just my $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation)
???? Asa? Jay
???? Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
???? &? Shelley Marie
???? Spokane, WA
???? ******************************
???? [22]http://w7tsc.org/
???? [23]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
???? _______________________________________________
???? Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
???? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
???? DeTomaso mailing list
???? [24]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
???? [25]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
???? To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
???? etc.) use the links above.
???? Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
???? any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
???? the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
???? archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
[26]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
[27]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
or approve the archiving of list messages.
-------------- next part --------------
I have a couple questions Bob:
> Calling this situation "multiple dues levels" seems to be making the
issue too complex. There are some members that are opting to not have
printed magazines mailed which should make those members eligible for a
discount because of the savings.
> What is your estimate of the length of time that it would take the
board to arrange for a vote of the membership to change the bylaws to
allow for this discount?
> Who specifically made that apples-to-apples comparison you refer to?
> I agree that the editors should have the most influence on the
process. However, our editors of both publications seem to have a hard
time reporting to the members about ANY issues pertaining to the
publication's themselves. Might that change in the near future or will
radio silence be the norm here?
Marshall Smith
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <[28]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>>
Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: [29]asajay@asajay.com<mailto:asajay@asajay.com>, [30]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic
To use a cliche, we're working on it.
Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline. However, there
are
restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently stand.
There
are no provisions for multiple dues levels, particularly pertaining to
how a
member elects to have their club publications delivered, etc. That
will
take time as any changes or amendments must be approved by the whole
membership.
The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would continue as a print
publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it
digitally.
As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so
expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit
cost. So as
fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit increases but
not
proportionately.
An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer and
the
current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference was
pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.
As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have the most
influence as to how and where their product is produced. They are the
ones who
must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular basis.
Bob Reid
In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
[31]asajay@asajay.com<mailto:asajay@asajay.com> writes:
The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was
interested
in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me,
it's a wait and see kind of thing. I agree, if POCA was missing out
on
full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.
However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs
properly. I have more faith that the present board members will
properly investigate and sort it out for everyone.
I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's nice to
just sit back and read a paper copy too. It's also easier to hand-off
to Sam so he can read it later. How do you really fix that?
I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership
database might be able to include a "preference" as part of the
member's
profile or details. Just as I can set an address and phone number, if
I
could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies, or both,
and
select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus Newsletter),
that might be ideal.
However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting. It very well
could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to
print
50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine those are considerations the
board will look at as well.
Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from
more
than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA
changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter content that in
essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws. For a guy that
appeared
to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and it's
unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they
applied
to him.
For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers -twice-
since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related to the DeRykes) got out of
the business. So the "family tie-in" previously eluded to, was not a
factor in the resignations.
Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for inflation)
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
& Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA
******************************
[32]http://w7tsc.org/
[33]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
[34]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
[35]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use
the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
list. They
also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve
the
archiving of list messages.
To use a cliche, we're working on it.
Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline. However, there
are
restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently stand.
There are no provisions for multiple dues levels,
particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club
publications delivered, etc. That will take time as any changes or
amendments must be approved by the whole membership.
The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would continue as a
print
publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it
digitally.
As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so
expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit
cost. So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit
increases but not proportionately.
An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer
and
the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference
was pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.
As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have the most
influence as to how and where their product is produced. They are
the
ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular
basis.
Bob Reid
In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
[36]asajay@asajay.com<mailto:asajay@asajay.com> writes:
The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was
interested
in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for
me,
it's a wait and see kind of thing. I agree, if POCA was missing
out
on
full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.
However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs
properly. I have more faith that the present board members will
properly investigate and sort it out for everyone.
I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's
nice
to
just sit back and read a paper copy too. It's also easier to
hand-off
to Sam so he can read it later. How do you really fix that?
I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership
database might be able to include a "preference" as part of the
member's
profile or details. Just as I can set an address and phone
number,
if I
could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies, or
both,
and
select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus
Newsletter),
that might be ideal.
However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting. It very
well
could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to
print
50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine those are considerations
the
board will look at as well.
Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from
more
than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA
changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter content
that
in
essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws. For a guy that
appeared
to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and
it's
unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they
applied
to him.
For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers
-twice-
since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related to the DeRykes) got
out
of
the business. So the "family tie-in" previously eluded to, was
not
a
factor in the resignations.
Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for inflation)
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
& Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA
******************************
[37]http://w7tsc.org/
[38]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
[39]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
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To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
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Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
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_______________________________________________
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Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
[41]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
[42]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
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Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
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or approve the archiving of list messages.
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:56:45 -0700
From: Michael Cox <[43]coxmichaelt@gmail.com<mailto:coxmichaelt@gmail.com>>
To: [44]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! again $250K!!
Message-ID:
<CAMPkPf3HQcqg5vLxgjpJP=7z=UBbrVs=[45]ynAnbzepC1U9QH+A_Q@mail.gmail.com<mailto:ynAnbzepC1U9QH+A_Q@mail.gmail.com>
>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> From: Ed Mendez <[46]edducati@mac.com<mailto:edducati@mac.com>>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! again $250K!!
>
> Hi! I found this on eBay and thought you might like it! Check it out
now! De Tomaso:
> Other Pantera GTS [47]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
These guys found that ad too. :^)
[48]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-ha
s-only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
--michael cox
-------------- next part --------------
> From: Ed Mendez <[1][49]edducati@mac.com<mailto:edducati@mac.com>>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! again $250K!!
>A
> Hi! I found this on eBay and thought you might like it! Check it out
now!A De Tomaso:
> Other Pantera GTSA [2][50]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
These guys found that ad too. A :^)
[3][51]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera
-has
-only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
A A --michael cox
References
1. [52]mailto:edducati@mac.com
2. [53]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
3.
[54]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-ha
s-only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 08:05:15 -0700
From: "Stephen" <[55]steve@snclocks.com<mailto:steve@snclocks.com>>
To: "'marshallgsmith'" <[56]marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net<mailto:marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net>>,
<[57]P6746@aol.com<mailto:P6746@aol.com>>, <[58]asajay@asajay.com<mailto:asajay@asajay.com>>,
<[59]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic
Message-ID: <004701d1f706$6ead4a50$4c07def0$@snclocks.com<mailto:004701d1f706$6ead4a50$4c07def0$@snclocks.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Having been on Boards before - I'd suggest the current Board deserves
some time to catch their breath and recover from the situation they
have recently been through. It is amazing how much time something like
this takes - and I suspect everyone on the Board would like to catch up
on all the things they have let slide while coping with the removal of
a president and all the animosity and e-mails the whole mess generated.
It's so easy to ask questions - but takes a lot more time to figure out
how to do everything asked below. For now, let's just let the Board
recover and slowly get some of the loose ends taken care of.
Stephen Nelson
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [[60]mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On
Behalf Of marshallgsmith
Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2016 8:28 PM
To: [61]P6746@aol.com<mailto:P6746@aol.com>; [62]asajay@asajay.com<mailto:asajay@asajay.com>;
[63]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic
I have a couple questions Bob:
> Calling this situation "multiple dues levels" seems to be making the
issue too complex. There are some members that are opting to not have
printed magazines mailed which should make those members eligible for a
discount because of the savings.
> What is your estimate of the length of time that it would take the
board to arrange for a vote of the membership to change the bylaws to
allow for this discount?
> Who specifically made that apples-to-apples comparison you refer to?
> I agree that the editors should have the most influence on the
process. However, our editors of both publications seem to have a hard
time reporting to the members about ANY issues pertaining to the
publication's themselves. Might that change in the near future or will
radio silence be the norm here?
Marshall Smith
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <[64]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>>
Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: [65]asajay@asajay.com<mailto:asajay@asajay.com>, [66]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic
To use a cliche, we're working on it.
Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline. However, there are
restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently stand.
There are no provisions for multiple dues levels, particularly
pertaining to how a member elects to have their club publications
delivered, etc. That will take time as any changes or amendments must
be approved by the whole membership.
The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would continue as a print
publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it
digitally.
As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so
expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit
cost. So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit
increases but not proportionately.
An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer and
the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference
was pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.
As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have the most
influence as to how and where their product is produced. They are the
ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular
basis.
Bob Reid
In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
[67]asajay@asajay.com<mailto:asajay@asajay.com> writes:
The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested
in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me,
it's a wait and see kind of thing. I agree, if POCA was missing out on
full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.
However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs
properly. I have more faith that the present board members will
properly investigate and sort it out for everyone.
I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's nice to
just sit back and read a paper copy too. It's also easier to hand-off
to Sam so he can read it later. How do you really fix that?
I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership
database might be able to include a "preference" as part of the
member's profile or details. Just as I can set an address and phone
number, if I could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies,
or both, and select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus
Newsletter), that might be ideal.
However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting. It very well
could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print
50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine those are considerations the
board will look at as well.
Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from more
than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA
changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter content that in
essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws. For a guy that appeared
to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and it's
unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they
applied to him.
For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers -twice-
since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related to the DeRykes) got out of
the business. So the "family tie-in" previously eluded to, was not a
factor in the resignations.
Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired & Shelley Marie Spokane,
WA
******************************
[68]http://w7tsc.org/
[69]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not
exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
[70]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
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To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
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Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
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or approve the archiving of list messages.
To use a cliche, we're working on it.
Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline. However, there are
restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently stand.
There are no provisions for multiple dues levels,
particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club
publications delivered, etc. That will take time as any changes or
amendments must be approved by the whole membership.
The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would continue as a print
publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it
digitally.
As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so
expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit
cost. So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit
increases but not proportionately.
An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer and
the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference
was pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.
As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have the most
influence as to how and where their product is produced. They are the
ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular
basis.
Bob Reid
In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
[72]asajay@asajay.com<mailto:asajay@asajay.com> writes:
The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was
interested
in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for
me,
it's a wait and see kind of thing. I agree, if POCA was missing out
on
full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.
However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs
properly. I have more faith that the present board members will
properly investigate and sort it out for everyone.
I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's nice
to
just sit back and read a paper copy too. It's also easier to
hand-off
to Sam so he can read it later. How do you really fix that?
I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership
database might be able to include a "preference" as part of the
member's
profile or details. Just as I can set an address and phone number,
if I
could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies, or both,
and
select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus Newsletter),
that might be ideal.
However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting. It very well
could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to
print
50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine those are considerations the
board will look at as well.
Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from
more
than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA
changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter content that
in
essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws. For a guy that
appeared
to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and
it's
unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they
applied
to him.
For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers
-twice-
since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related to the DeRykes) got out
of
the business. So the "family tie-in" previously eluded to, was not
a
factor in the resignations.
Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for inflation)
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
& Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA
******************************
[73]http://w7tsc.org/
[74]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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[77]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
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------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
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------------------------------
End of DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue 20
*****************************************
References
1. mailto:asajay@asajay.com
2. mailto:request@server.detomasolist.com
3. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
4. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
5. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
6. mailto:request@server.detomasolist.com
7. mailto:owner@server.detomasolist.com
8. mailto:marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net
9. mailto:P6746@aol.com
10. mailto:asajay@asajay.com
11. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
12. mailto:sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405@email.android.com
13. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
14. mailto:asajay@asajay.com
15. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
16. mailto:asajay@asajay.com
17. http://w7tsc.org/
18. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
19. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com
20. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
21. mailto:asajay@asajay.com
22. http://w7tsc.org/
23. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
24. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com
25. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
26. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com
27. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
28. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
29. mailto:asajay@asajay.com
30. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
31. mailto:asajay@asajay.com
32. http://w7tsc.org/
33. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
34. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com
35. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
36. mailto:asajay@asajay.com
37. http://w7tsc.org/
38. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
39. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com
40. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
41. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com
42. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
43. mailto:coxmichaelt@gmail.com
44. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
45. mailto:ynAnbzepC1U9QH+A_Q@mail.gmail.com
46. mailto:edducati@mac.com
47. http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
48. http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-has-only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
49. mailto:edducati@mac.com
50. http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
51. http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-has
52. mailto:edducati@mac.com?
53. http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
54. http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-has-only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
55. mailto:steve@snclocks.com
56. mailto:marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net
57. mailto:P6746@aol.com
58. mailto:asajay@asajay.com
59. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
60. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com?
61. mailto:P6746@aol.com
62. mailto:asajay@asajay.com
63. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
64. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
65. mailto:asajay@asajay.com
66. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
67. mailto:asajay@asajay.com
68. http://w7tsc.org/
69. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
70. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com
71. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
72. mailto:asajay@asajay.com
73. http://w7tsc.org/
74. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
75. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com
76. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
77. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com
78. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
79. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com
80. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
Ken (et al),
My dad said the same thing about me listening too much to Beatle music.
LOL ;-)
Then I started a band and played with people like Bob Seger (Seger
System), Amboy Dukes, and the Scott
Richard Case all over southern Michigan. Brought in some cash doing it
too.
The kids that I work with, and even hire (20 something millennial's) do
seem to spend too much time
with their phones constantly. But when I nailed them down about it,
they said they are keeping in-touch
with their friends. They all have formed a group of new-hires and keep
in-touch constantly. Seems weird to
me, but that is their social network. They plan all week for their
outdoors trips on the weekend.
They go to the Sequoia Nat'l forest, Kings Canyon, and Sierra Nevada
mountains almost EVERY weekend. They
go hiking, rock-climbing, camping, and in winter skiing. Last weekend
them climbed Mt Whitney. Outstanding.
My 17 year old grandson is addicted to video games. But he is a
straight "A" student, plays soccer and Lacrosse
all weekend, and will graduate high-school with almost an "Associates
Degree" from the local college courses he takes.
So, whenever, I think the world is going "to hell innna hand basket" I
step back and think, maybe it's just different than
when I grew up. I think kids today are amazing. And smart.
Just my opinion.
Terry
"A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan,
stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!"
Terry W. Himes
JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Dawn Spacecraft Team
Rosetta Sequence Team Lead
Phone: (818) 393-6261
Cell: (818) 653-8213
Fax: (818) 393-3147
[1]thimes@jpl.nasa.gov
From: DeTomaso <[2]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com> on behalf
of Ken Green via DeTomaso <[3]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
Reply-To: Ken Green <[4]kenn_green@yahoo.com>
Date: Monday, August 15, 2016 10:58 AM
To: "[5]laurieferrari@aol.com" <[6]laurieferrari@aol.com>,
"[7]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com"
<[8]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sam
Laurie,
The same young people spend the rest of the day glued to their
smart phones unaware of the physical world around them. I suspect they
also have no interest in cars unless the cars are in a video
game. They have one foot in the Matrix and would not object to living
in virtual realty if that could be arranged. I worry about the future
of mankind.
Ken
From: Laurie Ferrari via DeTomaso
<[9]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
To: [10]laurieferrari@aol.com; [11]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 10:10 AM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sam
p.s. In my experience with young people of the day, they are more
adapted to and capable of reading electronic material than most
adults
I know. Many classrooms now use Ipads.
Laurie
I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's
nice
to
just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to
hand-off
to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that?
-----Original Message-----
From: laurieferrari <[12]laurieferrari@aol.com>
To: detomaso <[13]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:57 am
Subject: Re: resignations
Dear AJ,
I have always respected you and your opinions but in this case you
are
incorrect as far as the resignation of Jack DeRyke. I was on the
Board
of Directors' conference call where he was asked to stay and he
adamantly refused to if the printer changed. Jack's resignation was
specifically because of the change in printer! You can go research
that phone conference call, or the minutes of the meeting, as the
facts
are saved. As far as Mike Haney's resignation, that was done by his
Mrs. for their reasons which most likely were aligned with their
parents.
Laurie
In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,?
[1][14]asajay@asajay.com writes:
The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was
interested
in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for
me,
it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing
out on
full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is
amiss.?
However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs
properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will
properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone.
I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's
nice
to
just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to
hand-off
to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that?
I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership
database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the
member's
profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone
number,
if I
could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or
both,
and
select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus
Newsletter),
that might be ideal.
However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very
well
could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to
print
50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations
the
board will? look at as well.
Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from
more
than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA
changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content
that
in
essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that
appeared
to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and
it's
unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they
applied
to him.
For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers
-twice-
since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got
out
of
the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was
not
a
factor in the resignations.
Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation)
Asa? Jay
Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
&? Shelley? Mar
-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-request
<detomaso-[2][15]request@server.detomasolist.com>
To: detomaso <[3][16]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:00 am
Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue 20
Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to
[4][17]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
[5][18]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
detomaso-[6][19]request@server.detomasolist.com
You can reach the person managing the list at
detomaso-[7][20]owner@server.detomasolist.com
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..."
Daily Detomaso List Digest
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (marshallgsmith)
2. Re: De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! again $250K!! (Michael Cox)
3. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (Stephen)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:27:43 -0700
From: marshallgsmith <[8][21]marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net>
To: [9][22]P6746@aol.com, [10][23]asajay@asajay.com,
[11][24]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic
Message-ID:
<[12][25]sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405@email.android.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I have a couple questions Bob:
> Calling this situation "multiple dues levels" seems to be making
the
issue too complex. There are some members that are opting to not have
printed magazines mailed which should make those members eligible for
a
discount because of the savings.
> What is your estimate of the length of time that it would take the
board to arrange for a vote of the membership to change the bylaws to
allow for this discount?
> Who specifically made that apples-to-apples comparison you refer
to?
> I agree that the editors should have the most influence ?on the
process. ?However, our editors of both publications seem to have a
hard
time reporting to the members about ANY issues pertaining to the
publication's themselves. Might that change in the near future or
will
radio silence be the norm here?
Marshall Smith
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: P6746--- via DeTomaso
<[13][26]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: [14][27]asajay@asajay.com,
[15][28]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic
To use a cliche, we're working on it.?
Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.?? However, there
are
restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently?
stand.?
There
are no provisions for multiple dues levels,? particularly pertaining
to
how a
member elects to have their club? publications delivered, etc.? That
will
take time as any changes or? amendments must be approved by the whole
membership.
The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would? continue as a
print
publication for all except foreign members who elect to? receive it
digitally.?
As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is? so
expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit?
cost.? So as
fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit? increases
but
not
proportionately.??
An apples to apples comparison was made between an online? printer
and
the
current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference? was
pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.?
As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have? the most
influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are?
the
ones who
must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular? basis.
Bob Reid?
In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,?
[16][29]asajay@asajay.com writes:
The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was
interested
in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for
me,
it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out
on
full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.?
However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs
properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will
properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone.
I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice
to
just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to
hand-off
to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that?
I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership
database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the
member's
profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number,
if
I
could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both,
and
select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter),
that might be ideal.
However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well
could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to
print
50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the
board will? look at as well.
Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from
more
than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA
changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that
in
essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that
appeared
to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and
it's
unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they
applied
to him.
For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers
-twice-
since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out
of
the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not
a
factor in the resignations.
Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation)
Asa? Jay
Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
&? Shelley? Marie
Spokane,? WA
******************************
[17][30]http://w7tsc.org/
[18][31]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
_______________________________________________
Detomaso? Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5? Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing? list
[19][32]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com
[20][33]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To? manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.)
use
the? links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to? forward
any
message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the?
list. They
also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or?
approve
the
archiving of list? messages.
?? To use a cliche, we're working on it.
?? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.? However,
there
are
?? restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently
stand.
?? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels,
?? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club
?? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes
or
?? amendments must be approved by the whole membership.
?? The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would continue as a
print
?? publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it
?? digitally.
?? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so
?? expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per
unit
?? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per
unit
?? increases but not proportionately.
?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer
and
?? the current printer for both printing and mailing and the
difference
?? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.
?? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have the
most
?? influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are
the
?? ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a
regular
?? basis.
?? Bob Reid
?? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
?? [21][34]asajay@asajay.com writes:
???? The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was
???? interested
???? in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so
for
???? me,
???? it's a wait and see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing
out
???? on
???? full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is
amiss.
???? However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs
???? properly.? I have more faith that the present board members will
???? properly investigate and sort it out for everyone.
???? I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's
nice
???? to
???? just sit back and read a paper copy too.? It's also easier to
???? hand-off
???? to Sam so he can read it later.? How do you really fix that?
???? I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress
membership
???? database might be able to include a "preference" as part of the
???? member's
???? profile or details.? Just as I can set an address and phone
number,
???? if I
???? could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies, or
both,
???? and
???? select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus
Newsletter),
???? that might be ideal.
???? However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very
well
???? could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does
to
???? print
???? 50, or 10 (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations
the
???? board will look at as well.
???? Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard
(from
???? more
???? than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because
POCA
???? changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter content
that
???? in
???? essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For a guy that
???? appeared
???? to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and
???? it's
???? unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they
???? applied
???? to him.
???? For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers
???? -twice-
???? since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related to the DeRykes) got
out
???? of
???? the business.? So the "family tie-in" previously eluded to, was
not
???? a
???? factor in the resignations.
???? Just my $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation)
???? Asa? Jay
???? Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
???? &? Shelley Marie
???? Spokane, WA
???? ******************************
???? [22][35]http://w7tsc.org/
???? [23][36]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
???? _______________________________________________
???? Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
???? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
???? DeTomaso mailing list
???? [24][37]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com
???? [25][38]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
???? To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
???? etc.) use the links above.
???? Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
forward
???? any message posted here to all past, current, or future members
of
???? the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain
an
???? archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
[26][39]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com
[27][40]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any
message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
archive
or approve the archiving of list messages.
Calling this situation "multiple dues levels" seems to be making the issue too complex. There are some members that are opting to not have
What is your estimate of the length of time that it would take the board to arrange for a vote of the membership to change the bylaws to allow for this discount? Who specifically made that apples-to-apples comparison you refer to? I agree that the editors should have the most influence ?on the
That is an awesome story, Terry! Great one to share with us all. Those young people appear to have it all! Your grandson sounds pretty awesome too! You know, I graduated from high school with an associate degree as well. Went to school Monday through Saturday, 6 days/week, then took classes in English language in evenings. Good thing since I ended up living in America at age 23! -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Himes, Terry (397C) Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 11:34 AM To: Ken Green; laurieferrari@aol.com; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sam Ken (et al), My dad said the same thing about me listening too much to Beatle music. LOL ;-) Then I started a band and played with people like Bob Seger (Seger System), Amboy Dukes, and the Scott Richard Case all over southern Michigan. Brought in some cash doing it too. The kids that I work with, and even hire (20 something millennial's) do seem to spend too much time with their phones constantly. But when I nailed them down about it, they said they are keeping in-touch with their friends. They all have formed a group of new-hires and keep in-touch constantly. Seems weird to me, but that is their social network. They plan all week for their outdoors trips on the weekend. They go to the Sequoia Nat'l forest, Kings Canyon, and Sierra Nevada mountains almost EVERY weekend. They go hiking, rock-climbing, camping, and in winter skiing. Last weekend them climbed Mt Whitney. Outstanding. My 17 year old grandson is addicted to video games. But he is a straight "A" student, plays soccer and Lacrosse all weekend, and will graduate high-school with almost an "Associates Degree" from the local college courses he takes. So, whenever, I think the world is going "to hell innna hand basket" I step back and think, maybe it's just different than when I grew up. I think kids today are amazing. And smart. Just my opinion. Terry "A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan, stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!" Terry W. Himes JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory Dawn Spacecraft Team Rosetta Sequence Team Lead Phone: (818) 393-6261 Cell: (818) 653-8213 Fax: (818) 393-3147 thimes@jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:thimes@jpl.nasa.gov> 🇺🇸 From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com>> on behalf of Ken Green via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>> Reply-To: Ken Green <kenn_green@yahoo.com<mailto:kenn_green@yahoo.com>> Date: Monday, August 15, 2016 10:58 AM To: "laurieferrari@aol.com<mailto:laurieferrari@aol.com>" <laurieferrari@aol.com<mailto:laurieferrari@aol.com>>, "detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sam Laurie, The same young people spend the rest of the day glued to their smart phones unaware of the physical world around them. I suspect they also have no interest in cars unless the cars are in a video game. They have one foot in the Matrix and would not object to living in virtual realty if that could be arranged. I worry about the future of mankind. Ken From: Laurie Ferrari via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>> To: laurieferrari@aol.com<mailto:laurieferrari@aol.com>; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 10:10 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sam p.s. In my experience with young people of the day, they are more adapted to and capable of reading electronic material than most adults I know. Many classrooms now use Ipads. Laurie I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? -----Original Message----- From: laurieferrari <laurieferrari@aol.com<mailto:laurieferrari@aol.com>> To: detomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>> Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:57 am Subject: Re: resignations Dear AJ, I have always respected you and your opinions but in this case you are incorrect as far as the resignation of Jack DeRyke. I was on the Board of Directors' conference call where he was asked to stay and he adamantly refused to if the printer changed. Jack's resignation was specifically because of the change in printer! You can go research that phone conference call, or the minutes of the meeting, as the facts are saved. As far as Mike Haney's resignation, that was done by his Mrs. for their reasons which most likely were aligned with their parents. Laurie In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? [1]asajay@asajay.com<mailto:asajay@asajay.com> writes: The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.? However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the member's profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the board will? look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out of the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa? Jay Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired &? Shelley? Mar -----Original Message----- From: detomaso-request <detomaso-[2]request@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:request@server.detomasolist.com>> To: detomaso <[3]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>> Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:00 am Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue 20 Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to [4]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit [5]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to detomaso-[6]request@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:request@server.detomasolist.com> You can reach the person managing the list at detomaso-[7]owner@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:owner@server.detomasolist.com> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..." Daily Detomaso List Digest Today's Topics: 1. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (marshallgsmith) 2. Re: De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! again $250K!! (Michael Cox) 3. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (Stephen) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:27:43 -0700 From: marshallgsmith <[8]marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net<mailto:marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net>> To: [9]P6746@aol.com<mailto:P6746@aol.com>, [10]asajay@asajay.com<mailto:asajay@asajay.com>, [11]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic Message-ID: <[12]sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405@email.android.com<mailto:sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405@email.android.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I have a couple questions Bob: printed magazines mailed which should make those members eligible for a discount because of the savings. process. ?However, our editors of both publications seem to have a hard time reporting to the members about ANY issues pertaining to the publication's themselves. Might that change in the near future or will radio silence be the norm here? Marshall Smith Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <[13]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>> Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00) To: [14]asajay@asajay.com<mailto:asajay@asajay.com>, [15]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic To use a cliche, we're working on it.? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.?? However, there are restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently? stand.? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels,? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or? amendments must be approved by the whole membership. The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would? continue as a print publication for all except foreign members who elect to? receive it digitally.? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is? so expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit? increases but not proportionately.?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online? printer and the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have? the most influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are? the ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular? basis. Bob Reid? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? [16]asajay@asajay.com<mailto:asajay@asajay.com> writes: The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.? However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the member's profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the board will? look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out of the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa? Jay Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired &? Shelley? Marie Spokane,? WA ****************************** [17]http://w7tsc.org/ [18]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/ _______________________________________________ Detomaso? Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5? Megabytes DeTomaso mailing? list [19]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com> [20]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To? manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the? links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to? forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the? list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or? approve the archiving of list? messages. ?? To use a cliche, we're working on it. ?? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.? However, there are ?? restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently stand. ?? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels, ?? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club ?? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or ?? amendments must be approved by the whole membership. ?? The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would continue as a print ?? publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it ?? digitally. ?? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so ?? expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit ?? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit ?? increases but not proportionately. ?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer and ?? the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference ?? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run. ?? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have the most ?? influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are the ?? ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular ?? basis. ?? Bob Reid ?? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ?? [21]asajay@asajay.com<mailto:asajay@asajay.com> writes: ???? The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was ???? interested ???? in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for ???? me, ???? it's a wait and see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out ???? on ???? full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss. ???? However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs ???? properly.? I have more faith that the present board members will ???? properly investigate and sort it out for everyone. ???? I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's nice ???? to ???? just sit back and read a paper copy too.? It's also easier to ???? hand-off ???? to Sam so he can read it later.? How do you really fix that? ???? I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership ???? database might be able to include a "preference" as part of the ???? member's ???? profile or details.? Just as I can set an address and phone number, ???? if I ???? could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies, or both, ???? and ???? select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus Newsletter), ???? that might be ideal. ???? However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well ???? could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to ???? print ???? 50, or 10 (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the ???? board will look at as well. ???? Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from ???? more ???? than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA ???? changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter content that ???? in ???? essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For a guy that ???? appeared ???? to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and ???? it's ???? unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they ???? applied ???? to him. ???? For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers ???? -twice- ???? since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related to the DeRykes) got out ???? of ???? the business.? So the "family tie-in" previously eluded to, was not ???? a ???? factor in the resignations. ???? Just my $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) ???? Asa? Jay ???? Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired ???? &? Shelley Marie ???? Spokane, WA ???? ****************************** ???? [22]http://w7tsc.org/ ???? [23]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/ ???? _______________________________________________ ???? Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA ???? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes ???? DeTomaso mailing list ???? [24]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com> ???? [25]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso ???? To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, ???? etc.) use the links above. ???? Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward ???? any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of ???? the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an ???? archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [26]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com> [27]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
Calling this situation "multiple dues levels" seems to be making the issue too complex. There are some members that are opting to not have
What is your estimate of the length of time that it would take the board to arrange for a vote of the membership to change the bylaws to allow for this discount? Who specifically made that apples-to-apples comparison you refer to? I agree that the editors should have the most influence ?on the
Calling this situation "multiple dues levels" seems to be making the issue too complex. There are some members that are opting to not have
What is your estimate of the length of time that it would take the board to arrange for a vote of the membership to change the bylaws to allow for this discount? Who specifically made that apples-to-apples comparison you refer to? I agree that the editors should have the most influence ?on the
Did you go to school in Greece? You certainly put in a great deal of time with your studies and mastered English beautifully. Maybe you'd like to be nominated for the Board? Not joking! I realize you have an important job, but maybe you'd consider it? Laurie That is an awesome story, Terry! Great one to share with us all. Those young people appear to have it all! Your grandson sounds pretty awesome too! You know, I graduated from high school with an associate degree as well. Went to school Monday through Saturday, 6 days/week, then took classes in English language in evenings. Good thing since I ended up living in America at age 23! -----Original Message----- From: Effie Richards <erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com> To: 'Himes, Terry (397C)' (397C)' <terry.himes@jpl.nasa.gov>; 'Ken Green' <kenn_green@yahoo.com>; laurieferrari <laurieferrari@aol.com>; detomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 11:45 am Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Sam That is an awesome story, Terry! Great one to share with us all. Those young people appear to have it all! Your grandson sounds pretty awesome too! You know, I graduated from high school with an associate degree as well. Went to school Monday through Saturday, 6 days/week, then took classes in English language in evenings. Good thing since I ended up living in America at age 23! -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Himes, Terry (397C) Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 11:34 AM To: Ken Green; laurieferrari@aol.com; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sam Ken (et al), My dad said the same thing about me listening too much to Beatle music. LOL ;-) Then I started a band and played with people like Bob Seger (Seger System), Amboy Dukes, and the Scott Richard Case all over southern Michigan. Brought in some cash doing it too. The kids that I work with, and even hire (20 something millennial's) do seem to spend too much time with their phones constantly. But when I nailed them down about it, they said they are keeping in-touch with their friends. They all have formed a group of new-hires and keep in-touch constantly. Seems weird to me, but that is their social network. They plan all week for their outdoors trips on the weekend. They go to the Sequoia Nat'l forest, Kings Canyon, and Sierra Nevada mountains almost EVERY weekend. They go hiking, rock-climbing, camping, and in winter skiing. Last weekend them climbed Mt Whitney. Outstanding. My 17 year old grandson is addicted to video games. But he is a straight "A" student, plays soccer and Lacrosse all weekend, and will graduate high-school with almost an "Associates Degree" from the local college courses he takes. So, whenever, I think the world is going "to hell innna hand basket" I step back and think, maybe it's just different than when I grew up. I think kids today are amazing. And smart. Just my opinion. Terry "A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan, stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!" Terry W. Himes JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory Dawn Spacecraft Team Rosetta Sequence Team Lead Phone: (818) 393-6261 Cell: (818) 653-8213 Fax: (818) 393-3147 thimes@jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:thimes@jpl.nasa.gov> From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com>> on behalf of Ken Green via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>> Reply-To: Ken Green <kenn_green@yahoo.com<mailto:kenn_green@yahoo.com>> Date: Monday, August 15, 2016 10:58 AM To: "laurieferrari@aol.com<mailto:laurieferrari@aol.com>" <laurieferrari@aol.com<mailto:laurieferrari@aol.com>>, "detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sam Laurie, The same young people spend the rest of the day glued to their smart phones unaware of the physical world around them. I suspect they also have no interest in cars unless the cars are in a video game. They have one foot in the Matrix and would not object to living in virtual realty if that could be arranged. I worry about the future of mankind. Ken From: Laurie Ferrari via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>> To: laurieferrari@aol.com<mailto:laurieferrari@aol.com>; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 10:10 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sam p.s. In my experience with young people of the day, they are more adapted to and capable of reading electronic material than most adults I know. Many classrooms now use Ipads. Laurie I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? -----Original Message----- From: laurieferrari <laurieferrari@aol.com<mailto:laurieferrari@aol.com>> To: detomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>> Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:57 am Subject: Re: resignations Dear AJ, I have always respected you and your opinions but in this case you are incorrect as far as the resignation of Jack DeRyke. I was on the Board of Directors' conference call where he was asked to stay and he adamantly refused to if the printer changed. Jack's resignation was specifically because of the change in printer! You can go research that phone conference call, or the minutes of the meeting, as the facts are saved. As far as Mike Haney's resignation, that was done by his Mrs. for their reasons which most likely were aligned with their parents. Laurie In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? [1]asajay@asajay.com<mailto:asajay@asajay.com> writes: The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.? However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the member's profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the board will? look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out of the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa? Jay Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired &? Shelley? Mar -----Original Message----- From: detomaso-request <detomaso-[2]request@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:request@server.detomasolist.com>> To: detomaso <[3]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>> Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:00 am Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue 20 Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to [4]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit [5]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to detomaso-[6]request@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:request@server.detomasolist.com> You can reach the person managing the list at detomaso-[7]owner@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:owner@server.detomasolist.com> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..." Daily Detomaso List Digest Today's Topics: 1. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (marshallgsmith) 2. Re: De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! again $250K!! (Michael Cox) 3. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (Stephen) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:27:43 -0700 From: marshallgsmith <[8]marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net<mailto:marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net>> To: [9]P6746@aol.com<mailto:P6746@aol.com>, [10]asajay@asajay.com<mailto:asajay@asajay.com>, [11]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic Message-ID: <[12]sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405@email.android.com<mailto:sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405@email.android.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I have a couple questions Bob: printed magazines mailed which should make those members eligible for a discount because of the savings. process. ?However, our editors of both publications seem to have a hard time reporting to the members about ANY issues pertaining to the publication's themselves. Might that change in the near future or will radio silence be the norm here? Marshall Smith Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <[13]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>> Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00) To: [14]asajay@asajay.com<mailto:asajay@asajay.com>, [15]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic To use a cliche, we're working on it.? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.?? However, there are restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently? stand.? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels,? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or? amendments must be approved by the whole membership. The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would? continue as a print publication for all except foreign members who elect to? receive it digitally.? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is? so expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit? increases but not proportionately.?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online? printer and the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have? the most influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are? the ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular? basis. Bob Reid? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? [16]asajay@asajay.com<mailto:asajay@asajay.com> writes: The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.? However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the member's profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the board will? look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out of the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa? Jay Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired &? Shelley? Marie Spokane,? WA ****************************** [17]http://w7tsc.org/ [18]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/ _______________________________________________ Detomaso? Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5? Megabytes DeTomaso mailing? list [19]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com> [20]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To? manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the? links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to? forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the? list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or? approve the archiving of list? messages. ?? To use a cliche, we're working on it. ?? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.? However, there are ?? restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently stand. ?? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels, ?? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club ?? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or ?? amendments must be approved by the whole membership. ?? The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would continue as a print ?? publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it ?? digitally. ?? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so ?? expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit ?? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit ?? increases but not proportionately. ?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer and ?? the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference ?? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run. ?? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have the most ?? influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are the ?? ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular ?? basis. ?? Bob Reid ?? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ?? [21]asajay@asajay.com<mailto:asajay@asajay.com> writes: ???? The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was ???? interested ???? in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for ???? me, ???? it's a wait and see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out ???? on ???? full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss. ???? However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs ???? properly.? I have more faith that the present board members will ???? properly investigate and sort it out for everyone. ???? I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's nice ???? to ???? just sit back and read a paper copy too.? It's also easier to ???? hand-off ???? to Sam so he can read it later.? How do you really fix that? ???? I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership ???? database might be able to include a "preference" as part of the ???? member's ???? profile or details.? Just as I can set an address and phone number, ???? if I ???? could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies, or both, ???? and ???? select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus Newsletter), ???? that might be ideal. ???? However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well ???? could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to ???? print ???? 50, or 10 (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the ???? board will look at as well. ???? Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from ???? more ???? than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA ???? changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter content that ???? in ???? essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For a guy that ???? appeared ???? to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and ???? it's ???? unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they ???? applied ???? to him. ???? For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers ???? -twice- ???? since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related to the DeRykes) got out ???? of ???? the business.? So the "family tie-in" previously eluded to, was not ???? a ???? factor in the resignations. ???? Just my $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) ???? Asa? Jay ???? Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired ???? &? Shelley Marie ???? Spokane, WA ???? ****************************** ???? [22]http://w7tsc.org/ ???? [23]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/ ???? _______________________________________________ ???? Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA ???? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes ???? DeTomaso mailing list ???? [24]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com> ???? [25]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso ???? To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, ???? etc.) use the links above. ???? Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward ???? any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of ???? the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an ???? archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [26]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com> [27]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Did you go to school in Greece? You certainly put in a great deal of time with your studies and mastered English beautifully. Maybe you'd like to be nominated for the Board? Not joking! I realize you have an important job, but maybe you'd consider it? Laurie That is an awesome story, Terry! Great one to share with us all. Those young people appear to have it all! Your grandson sounds pretty awesome too! You know, I graduated from high school with an associate degree as well. Went to school Monday through Saturday, 6 days/week, then took classes in English language in evenings. Good thing since I ended up living in America at age 23! -----Original Message----- From: Effie Richards <erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com> To: 'Himes, Terry (397C)' (397C)' <terry.himes@jpl.nasa.gov>; 'Ken Green' <kenn_green@yahoo.com>; laurieferrari <laurieferrari@aol.com>; detomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 11:45 am Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Sam That is an awesome story, Terry! Great one to share with us all. Those young people appear to have it all! Your grandson sounds pretty awesome too! You know, I graduated from high school with an associate degree as well. Went to school Monday through Saturday, 6 days/week, then took classes in English language in evenings. Good thing since I ended up living in America at age 23! -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [[1]mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Himes, Terry (397C) Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 11:34 AM To: Ken Green; [2]laurieferrari@aol.com; [3]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sam Ken (et al), My dad said the same thing about me listening too much to Beatle music. LOL ;-) Then I started a band and played with people like Bob Seger (Seger System), Amboy Dukes, and the Scott Richard Case all over southern Michigan. Brought in some cash doing it too. The kids that I work with, and even hire (20 something millennial's) do seem to spend too much time with their phones constantly. But when I nailed them down about it, they said they are keeping in-touch with their friends. They all have formed a group of new-hires and keep in-touch constantly. Seems weird to me, but that is their social network. They plan all week for their outdoors trips on the weekend. They go to the Sequoia Nat'l forest, Kings Canyon, and Sierra Nevada mountains almost EVERY weekend. They go hiking, rock-climbing, camping, and in winter skiing. Last weekend them climbed Mt Whitney. Outstanding. My 17 year old grandson is addicted to video games. But he is a straight "A" student, plays soccer and Lacrosse all weekend, and will graduate high-school with almost an "Associates Degree" from the local college courses he takes. So, whenever, I think the world is going "to hell innna hand basket" I step back and think, maybe it's just different than when I grew up. I think kids today are amazing. And smart. Just my opinion. Terry "A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan, stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!" Terry W. Himes JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory Dawn Spacecraft Team Rosetta Sequence Team Lead Phone: (818) 393-6261 Cell: (818) 653-8213 Fax: (818) 393-3147 [4]thimes@jpl.nasa.gov<[5]mailto:thimes@jpl.nasa.gov> From: DeTomaso <detomaso-[6]bounces@server.detomasolist.com<[7]mailto:detomaso-bounces @server.detomasolist.com>> on behalf of Ken Green via DeTomaso <[8]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<[9]mailto:detomaso@server.detomaso list.com>> Reply-To: Ken Green <[10]kenn_green@yahoo.com<[11]mailto:kenn_green@yahoo.com>> Date: Monday, August 15, 2016 10:58 AM To: "[12]laurieferrari@aol.com<[13]mailto:laurieferrari@aol.com>" <[14]laurieferrari@aol.com<[15]mailto:laurieferrari@aol.com>>, "[16]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<[17]mailto:detomaso@server.detoma solist.com>" <[18]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<[19]mailto:detomaso@server.detoma solist.com>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sam Laurie, The same young people spend the rest of the day glued to their smart phones unaware of the physical world around them. I suspect they also have no interest in cars unless the cars are in a video game. They have one foot in the Matrix and would not object to living in virtual realty if that could be arranged. I worry about the future of mankind. Ken From: Laurie Ferrari via DeTomaso <[20]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<[21]mailto:detomaso@server.detoma solist.com>> To: [22]laurieferrari@aol.com<[23]mailto:laurieferrari@aol.com>; [24]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<[25]mailto:detomaso@server.detomas olist.com> Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 10:10 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sam p.s. In my experience with young people of the day, they are more adapted to and capable of reading electronic material than most adults I know. Many classrooms now use Ipads. Laurie I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? -----Original Message----- From: laurieferrari <[26]laurieferrari@aol.com<[27]mailto:laurieferrari@aol.com>> To: detomaso <[28]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<[29]mailto:detomaso@server.detoma solist.com>> Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:57 am Subject: Re: resignations Dear AJ, I have always respected you and your opinions but in this case you are incorrect as far as the resignation of Jack DeRyke. I was on the Board of Directors' conference call where he was asked to stay and he adamantly refused to if the printer changed. Jack's resignation was specifically because of the change in printer! You can go research that phone conference call, or the minutes of the meeting, as the facts are saved. As far as Mike Haney's resignation, that was done by his Mrs. for their reasons which most likely were aligned with their parents. Laurie In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? [1][30]asajay@asajay.com<[31]mailto:asajay@asajay.com> writes: The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.? However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the member's profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the board will? look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out of the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa? Jay Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired &? Shelley? Mar -----Original Message----- From: detomaso-request <detomaso-[2][32]request@server.detomasolist.com<[33]mailto:request@ser ver.detomasolist.com>> To: detomaso <[3][34]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<[35]mailto:detomaso@server.det omasolist.com>> Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:00 am Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue 20 Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to [4][36]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<[37]mailto:detomaso@server.deto masolist.com> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit [5][38]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to detomaso-[6][39]request@server.detomasolist.com<[40]mailto:request@serv er.detomasolist.com> You can reach the person managing the list at detomaso-[7][41]owner@server.detomasolist.com<[42]mailto:owner@server.d etomasolist.com> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..." Daily Detomaso List Digest Today's Topics: 1. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (marshallgsmith) 2. Re: De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! again $250K!! (Michael Cox) 3. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (Stephen) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:27:43 -0700 From: marshallgsmith <[8][43]marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net<[44]mailto:marshallgsmith@sbcgloba l.net>> To: [9][45]P6746@aol.com<[46]mailto:P6746@aol.com>, [10][47]asajay@asajay.com<[48]mailto:asajay@asajay.com>, [11][49]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<[50]mailto:detomaso@server.det omasolist.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic Message-ID: <[12][51]sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405@email.android.com<[52]m ailto:sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405@email.android.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I have a couple questions Bob: printed magazines mailed which should make those members eligible for a discount because of the savings. process. ?However, our editors of both publications seem to have a hard time reporting to the members about ANY issues pertaining to the publication's themselves. Might that change in the near future or will radio silence be the norm here? Marshall Smith Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <[13][53]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<[54]mailto:detomaso@server.de tomasolist.com>> Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00) To: [14][55]asajay@asajay.com<[56]mailto:asajay@asajay.com>, [15][57]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<[58]mailto:detomaso@server.det omasolist.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic To use a cliche, we're working on it.? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.?? However, there are restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently? stand.? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels,? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or? amendments must be approved by the whole membership. The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would? continue as a print publication for all except foreign members who elect to? receive it digitally.? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is? so expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit? increases but not proportionately.?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online? printer and the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have? the most influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are? the ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular? basis. Bob Reid? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? [16][59]asajay@asajay.com<[60]mailto:asajay@asajay.com> writes: The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.? However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the member's profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the board will? look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out of the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa? Jay Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired &? Shelley? Marie Spokane,? WA ****************************** [17][61]http://w7tsc.org/ [18][62]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/ _______________________________________________ Detomaso? Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5? Megabytes DeTomaso mailing? list [19][63]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com<[64]mailto:DeTomaso@server.det omasolist.com> [20][65]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To? manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the? links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to? forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the? list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or? approve the archiving of list? messages. ?? To use a cliche, we're working on it. ?? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.? However, there are ?? restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently stand. ?? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels, ?? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club ?? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or ?? amendments must be approved by the whole membership. ?? The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would continue as a print ?? publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it ?? digitally. ?? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so ?? expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit ?? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit ?? increases but not proportionately. ?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer and ?? the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference ?? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run. ?? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have the most ?? influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are the ?? ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular ?? basis. ?? Bob Reid ?? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ?? [21][66]asajay@asajay.com<[67]mailto:asajay@asajay.com> writes: ???? The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was ???? interested ???? in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for ???? me, ???? it's a wait and see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out ???? on ???? full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss. ???? However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs ???? properly.? I have more faith that the present board members will ???? properly investigate and sort it out for everyone. ???? I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's nice ???? to ???? just sit back and read a paper copy too.? It's also easier to ???? hand-off ???? to Sam so he can read it later.? How do you really fix that? ???? I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership ???? database might be able to include a "preference" as part of the ???? member's ???? profile or details.? Just as I can set an address and phone number, ???? if I ???? could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies, or both, ???? and ???? select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus Newsletter), ???? that might be ideal. ???? However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well ???? could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to ???? print ???? 50, or 10 (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the ???? board will look at as well. ???? Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from ???? more ???? than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA ???? changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter content that ???? in ???? essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For a guy that ???? appeared ???? to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and ???? it's ???? unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they ???? applied ???? to him. ???? For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers ???? -twice- ???? since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related to the DeRykes) got out ???? of ???? the business.? So the "family tie-in" previously eluded to, was not ???? a ???? factor in the resignations. ???? Just my $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) ???? Asa? Jay ???? Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired ???? &? Shelley Marie ???? Spokane, WA ???? ****************************** ???? [22][68]http://w7tsc.org/ ???? [23][69]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/ ???? _______________________________________________ ???? Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA ???? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes ???? DeTomaso mailing list ???? [24][70]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com<[71]mailto:DeTomaso@server.det omasolist.com> ???? [25][72]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso ???? To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, ???? etc.) use the links above. ???? Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward ???? any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of ???? the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an ???? archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [26][73]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com<[74]mailto:DeTomaso@server.det omasolist.com> [27][75]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
Thank you for your kind words Laurie! I appreciate it! I yes I finished all my schooling in Greece and came here at 23 with my American husband who was serving in the Navy. have been working for over 39 years for the same wonderful mentor, who allowed me to learn the ins and outs of development, construction, real estate and hotel management. He entrusted me with managing all his real estate assets including financing and his family's as well when he retired 12 years ago and moved to NY. The reason I'm still the one running his business is not just loyalty but character, as I have previously said. I have his trust and always his back. I earned those. I don't think POCA would ever want me because I ask too many questions! I plan on retiring the end of 2017 and then I will do volunteer work "protecting the innocent"! Sent from Effie's iPad
On Aug 15, 2016, at 8:48 PM, laurieferrari@aol.com wrote:
Did you go to school in Greece? You certainly put in a great deal of time with your studies and mastered English beautifully. Maybe you'd like to be nominated for the Board? Not joking! I realize you have an important job, but maybe you'd consider it? Laurie That is an awesome story, Terry! Great one to share with us all. Those young people appear to have it all! Your grandson sounds pretty awesome too! You know, I graduated from high school with an associate degree as well. Went to school Monday through Saturday, 6 days/week, then took classes in English language in evenings. Good thing since I ended up living in America at age 23!
-----Original Message----- From: Effie Richards <erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com> To: 'Himes, Terry (397C)' (397C)' <terry.himes@jpl.nasa.gov>; 'Ken Green' <kenn_green@yahoo.com>; laurieferrari <laurieferrari@aol.com>; detomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 11:45 am Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Sam
That is an awesome story, Terry! Great one to share with us all. Those young people appear to have it all! Your grandson sounds pretty awesome too! You know, I graduated from high school with an associate degree as well. Went to school Monday through Saturday, 6 days/week, then took classes in English language in evenings. Good thing since I ended up living in America at age 23!
-----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Himes, Terry (397C) Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 11:34 AM To: Ken Green; laurieferrari@aol.com; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sam
Ken (et al),
My dad said the same thing about me listening too much to Beatle music. LOL ;-) Then I started a band and played with people like Bob Seger (Seger System), Amboy Dukes, and the Scott Richard Case all over southern Michigan. Brought in some cash doing it too.
The kids that I work with, and even hire (20 something millennial's) do seem to spend too much time with their phones constantly. But when I nailed them down about it, they said they are keeping in-touch with their friends. They all have formed a group of new-hires and keep in-touch constantly. Seems weird to me, but that is their social network. They plan all week for their outdoors trips on the weekend. They go to the Sequoia Nat'l forest, Kings Canyon, and Sierra Nevada mountains almost EVERY weekend. They go hiking, rock-climbing, camping, and in winter skiing. Last weekend them climbed Mt Whitney. Outstanding.
My 17 year old grandson is addicted to video games. But he is a straight "A" student, plays soccer and Lacrosse all weekend, and will graduate high-school with almost an "Associates Degree" from the local college courses he takes.
So, whenever, I think the world is going "to hell innna hand basket" I step back and think, maybe it's just different than when I grew up. I think kids today are amazing. And smart.
Just my opinion.
Terry
"A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan, stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!"
Terry W. Himes JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory Dawn Spacecraft Team Rosetta Sequence Team Lead Phone: (818) 393-6261 Cell: (818) 653-8213 Fax: (818) 393-3147 thimes@jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:thimes@jpl.nasa.gov>
From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com>> on behalf of Ken Green via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>> Reply-To: Ken Green <kenn_green@yahoo.com<mailto:kenn_green@yahoo.com>> Date: Monday, August 15, 2016 10:58 AM To: "laurieferrari@aol.com<mailto:laurieferrari@aol.com>" <laurieferrari@aol.com<mailto:laurieferrari@aol.com>>, "detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sam
Laurie, The same young people spend the rest of the day glued to their smart phones unaware of the physical world around them. I suspect they also have no interest in cars unless the cars are in a video game. They have one foot in the Matrix and would not object to living in virtual realty if that could be arranged. I worry about the future of mankind. Ken From: Laurie Ferrari via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>> To: laurieferrari@aol.com<mailto:laurieferrari@aol.com>; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 10:10 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sam
p.s. In my experience with young people of the day, they are more adapted to and capable of reading electronic material than most adults I know. Many classrooms now use Ipads.
Laurie
I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that?
-----Original Message----- From: laurieferrari <laurieferrari@aol.com<mailto:laurieferrari@aol.com>> To: detomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>> Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:57 am Subject: Re: resignations Dear AJ, I have always respected you and your opinions but in this case you are incorrect as far as the resignation of Jack DeRyke. I was on the Board of Directors' conference call where he was asked to stay and he adamantly refused to if the printer changed. Jack's resignation was specifically because of the change in printer! You can go research that phone conference call, or the minutes of the meeting, as the facts are saved. As far as Mike Haney's resignation, that was done by his Mrs. for their reasons which most likely were aligned with their parents. Laurie
In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? [1]asajay@asajay.com<mailto:asajay@asajay.com> writes: The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.? However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the member's profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the board will? look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out of the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa? Jay Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired &? Shelley? Mar
Calling this situation "multiple dues levels" seems to be making the issue too complex. There are some members that are opting to not have
What is your estimate of the length of time that it would take the board to arrange for a vote of the membership to change the bylaws to allow for this discount? Who specifically made that apples-to-apples comparison you refer to? I agree that the editors should have the most influence ?on the
-----Original Message----- From: detomaso-request <detomaso-[2]request@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:request@server.detomasolist.com>> To: detomaso <[3]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>> Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:00 am Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue 20 Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to [4]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit [5]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to detomaso-[6]request@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:request@server.detomasolist.com> You can reach the person managing the list at detomaso-[7]owner@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:owner@server.detomasolist.com> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..." Daily Detomaso List Digest Today's Topics: 1. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (marshallgsmith) 2. Re: De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! again $250K!! (Michael Cox) 3. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (Stephen) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:27:43 -0700 From: marshallgsmith <[8]marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net<mailto:marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net>> To: [9]P6746@aol.com<mailto:P6746@aol.com>, [10]asajay@asajay.com<mailto:asajay@asajay.com>, [11]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic Message-ID: <[12]sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405@email.android.com<mailto:sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405@email.android.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I have a couple questions Bob: printed magazines mailed which should make those members eligible for a discount because of the savings. process. ?However, our editors of both publications seem to have a hard time reporting to the members about ANY issues pertaining to the publication's themselves. Might that change in the near future or will radio silence be the norm here? Marshall Smith Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <[13]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>> Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00) To: [14]asajay@asajay.com<mailto:asajay@asajay.com>, [15]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic To use a cliche, we're working on it.? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.?? However, there are restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently? stand.? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels,? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or? amendments must be approved by the whole membership. The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would? continue as a print publication for all except foreign members who elect to? receive it digitally.? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is? so expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit? increases but not proportionately.?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online? printer and the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have? the most influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are? the ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular? basis. Bob Reid? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? [16]asajay@asajay.com<mailto:asajay@asajay.com> writes: The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.? However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the member's profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the board will? look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out of the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa? Jay Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired &? Shelley? Marie Spokane,? WA ****************************** [17]http://w7tsc.org/ [18]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/ _______________________________________________ Detomaso? Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5? Megabytes DeTomaso mailing? list [19]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com> [20]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To? manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the? links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to? forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the? list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or? approve the archiving of list? messages. ?? To use a cliche, we're working on it. ?? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.? However, there are ?? restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently stand. ?? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels, ?? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club ?? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or ?? amendments must be approved by the whole membership. ?? The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would continue as a print ?? publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it ?? digitally. ?? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so ?? expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit ?? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit ?? increases but not proportionately. ?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer and ?? the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference ?? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run. ?? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have the most ?? influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are the ?? ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular ?? basis. ?? Bob Reid ?? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ?? [21]asajay@asajay.com<mailto:asajay@asajay.com> writes: ???? The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was ???? interested ???? in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for ???? me, ???? it's a wait and see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out ???? on ???? full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss. ???? However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs ???? properly.? I have more faith that the present board members will ???? properly investigate and sort it out for everyone. ???? I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's nice ???? to ???? just sit back and read a paper copy too.? It's also easier to ???? hand-off ???? to Sam so he can read it later.? How do you really fix that? ???? I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership ???? database might be able to include a "preference" as part of the ???? member's ???? profile or details.? Just as I can set an address and phone number, ???? if I ???? could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies, or both, ???? and ???? select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus Newsletter), ???? that might be ideal. ???? However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well ???? could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to ???? print ???? 50, or 10 (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the ???? board will look at as well. ???? Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from ???? more ???? than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA ???? changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter content that ???? in ???? essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For a guy that ???? appeared ???? to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and ???? it's ???? unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they ???? applied ???? to him. ???? For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers ???? -twice- ???? since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related to the DeRykes) got out ???? of ???? the business.? So the "family tie-in" previously eluded to, was not ???? a ???? factor in the resignations. ???? Just my $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) ???? Asa? Jay ???? Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired ???? &? Shelley Marie ???? Spokane, WA ???? ****************************** ???? [22]http://w7tsc.org/ ???? [23]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/ ???? _______________________________________________ ???? Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA ???? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes ???? DeTomaso mailing list ???? [24]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com> ???? [25]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso ???? To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, ???? etc.) use the links above. ???? Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward ???? any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of ???? the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an ???? archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [26]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com> [27]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
Calling this situation "multiple dues levels" seems to be making the issue too complex. There are some members that are opting to not have
What is your estimate of the length of time that it would take the board to arrange for a vote of the membership to change the bylaws to allow for this discount? Who specifically made that apples-to-apples comparison you refer to? I agree that the editors should have the most influence ?on the
Thank you for your kind words Laurie! I appreciate it! I yes I finished all my schooling in Greece and came here at 23 with my American husband who was serving in the Navy. have been working for over 39 years for the same wonderful mentor, who allowed me to learn the ins and outs of development, construction, real estate and hotel management. He entrusted me with managing all his real estate assets including financing and his family's as well when he retired 12 years ago and moved to NY. The reason I'm still the one running his business is not just loyalty but character, as I have previously said. I have his trust and always his back. I earned those. I don't think POCA would ever want me because I ask too many questions! I plan on retiring the end of 2017 and then I will do volunteer work "protecting the innocent"! Sent from Effie's iPad On Aug 15, 2016, at 8:48 PM, [1]laurieferrari@aol.com wrote: Did you go to school in Greece? You certainly put in a great deal of time with your studies and mastered English beautifully. Maybe you'd like to be nominated for the Board? Not joking! I realize you have an important job, but maybe you'd consider it? Laurie That is an awesome story, Terry! Great one to share with us all. Those young people appear to have it all! Your grandson sounds pretty awesome too! You know, I graduated from high school with an associate degree as well. Went to school Monday through Saturday, 6 days/week, then took classes in English language in evenings. Good thing since I ended up living in America at age 23! -----Original Message----- From: Effie Richards <[2]erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com> To: 'Himes, Terry (397C)' (397C)' <[3]terry.himes@jpl.nasa.gov>; 'Ken Green' <[4]kenn_green@yahoo.com>; laurieferrari <[5]laurieferrari@aol.com>; detomaso <[6]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 11:45 am Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Sam That is an awesome story, Terry! Great one to share with us all. Those young people appear to have it all! Your grandson sounds pretty awesome too! You know, I graduated from high school with an associate degree as well. Went to school Monday through Saturday, 6 days/week, then took classes in English language in evenings. Good thing since I ended up living in America at age 23! -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [[7]mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Himes, Terry (397C) Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 11:34 AM To: Ken Green; [8]laurieferrari@aol.com; [9]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sam Ken (et al), My dad said the same thing about me listening too much to Beatle music. LOL ;-) Then I started a band and played with people like Bob Seger (Seger System), Amboy Dukes, and the Scott Richard Case all over southern Michigan. Brought in some cash doing it too. The kids that I work with, and even hire (20 something millennial's) do seem to spend too much time with their phones constantly. But when I nailed them down about it, they said they are keeping in-touch with their friends. They all have formed a group of new-hires and keep in-touch constantly. Seems weird to me, but that is their social network. They plan all week for their outdoors trips on the weekend. They go to the Sequoia Nat'l forest, Kings Canyon, and Sierra Nevada mountains almost EVERY weekend. They go hiking, rock-climbing, camping, and in winter skiing. Last weekend them climbed Mt Whitney. Outstanding. My 17 year old grandson is addicted to video games. But he is a straight "A" student, plays soccer and Lacrosse all weekend, and will graduate high-school with almost an "Associates Degree" from the local college courses he takes. So, whenever, I think the world is going "to hell innna hand basket" I step back and think, maybe it's just different than when I grew up. I think kids today are amazing. And smart. Just my opinion. Terry "A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan, stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!" Terry W. Himes JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory Dawn Spacecraft Team Rosetta Sequence Team Lead Phone: (818) 393-6261 Cell: (818) 653-8213 Fax: (818) 393-3147 [10]thimes@jpl.nasa.gov<[11]mailto:thimes@jpl.nasa.gov> From: DeTomaso <detomaso-[12]bounces@server.detomasolist.com<[13]mailto:detomaso-bounc es@server.detomasolist.com>> on behalf of Ken Green via DeTomaso <[14]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<[15]mailto:detomaso@server.detoma solist.com>> Reply-To: Ken Green <[16]kenn_green@yahoo.com<[17]mailto:kenn_green@yahoo.com>> Date: Monday, August 15, 2016 10:58 AM To: "[18]laurieferrari@aol.com<[19]mailto:laurieferrari@aol.com>" <[20]laurieferrari@aol.com<[21]mailto:laurieferrari@aol.com>>, "[22]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<[23]mailto:detomaso@server.detoma solist.com>" <[24]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<[25]mailto:detomaso@server.detoma solist.com>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sam Laurie, The same young people spend the rest of the day glued to their smart phones unaware of the physical world around them. I suspect they also have no interest in cars unless the cars are in a video game. They have one foot in the Matrix and would not object to living in virtual realty if that could be arranged. I worry about the future of mankind. Ken From: Laurie Ferrari via DeTomaso <[26]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<[27]mailto:detomaso@server.detoma solist.com>> To: [28]laurieferrari@aol.com<[29]mailto:laurieferrari@aol.com>; [30]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<[31]mailto:detomaso@server.detomas olist.com> Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 10:10 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sam p.s. In my experience with young people of the day, they are more adapted to and capable of reading electronic material than most adults I know. Many classrooms now use Ipads. Laurie I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? -----Original Message----- From: laurieferrari <[32]laurieferrari@aol.com<[33]mailto:laurieferrari@aol.com>> To: detomaso <[34]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<[35]mailto:detomaso@server.detoma solist.com>> Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:57 am Subject: Re: resignations Dear AJ, I have always respected you and your opinions but in this case you are incorrect as far as the resignation of Jack DeRyke. I was on the Board of Directors' conference call where he was asked to stay and he adamantly refused to if the printer changed. Jack's resignation was specifically because of the change in printer! You can go research that phone conference call, or the minutes of the meeting, as the facts are saved. As far as Mike Haney's resignation, that was done by his Mrs. for their reasons which most likely were aligned with their parents. Laurie In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? [1][36]asajay@asajay.com<[37]mailto:asajay@asajay.com> writes: The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.? However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the member's profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the board will? look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out of the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa? Jay Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired &? Shelley? Mar -----Original Message----- From: detomaso-request <detomaso-[2][38]request@server.detomasolist.com<[39]mailto:request@ser ver.detomasolist.com>> To: detomaso <[3][40]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<[41]mailto:detomaso@server.det omasolist.com>> Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:00 am Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue 20 Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to [4][42]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<[43]mailto:detomaso@server.deto masolist.com> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit [5][44]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to detomaso-[6][45]request@server.detomasolist.com<[46]mailto:request@serv er.detomasolist.com> You can reach the person managing the list at detomaso-[7][47]owner@server.detomasolist.com<[48]mailto:owner@server.d etomasolist.com> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..." Daily Detomaso List Digest Today's Topics: 1. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (marshallgsmith) 2. Re: De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! again $250K!! (Michael Cox) 3. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (Stephen) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:27:43 -0700 From: marshallgsmith <[8][49]marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net<[50]mailto:marshallgsmith@sbcgloba l.net>> To: [9][51]P6746@aol.com<[52]mailto:P6746@aol.com>, [10][53]asajay@asajay.com<[54]mailto:asajay@asajay.com>, [11][55]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<[56]mailto:detomaso@server.det omasolist.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic Message-ID: <[12][57]sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405@email.android.com<[58]m ailto:sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405@email.android.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I have a couple questions Bob: printed magazines mailed which should make those members eligible for a discount because of the savings. process. ?However, our editors of both publications seem to have a hard time reporting to the members about ANY issues pertaining to the publication's themselves. Might that change in the near future or will radio silence be the norm here? Marshall Smith Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <[13][59]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<[60]mailto:detomaso@server.de tomasolist.com>> Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00) To: [14][61]asajay@asajay.com<[62]mailto:asajay@asajay.com>, [15][63]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<[64]mailto:detomaso@server.det omasolist.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic To use a cliche, we're working on it.? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.?? However, there are restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently? stand.? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels,? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or? amendments must be approved by the whole membership. The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would? continue as a print publication for all except foreign members who elect to? receive it digitally.? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is? so expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit? increases but not proportionately.?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online? printer and the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have? the most influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are? the ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular? basis. Bob Reid? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? [16][65]asajay@asajay.com<[66]mailto:asajay@asajay.com> writes: The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.? However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the member's profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the board will? look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out of the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa? Jay Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired &? Shelley? Marie Spokane,? WA ****************************** [17][67]http://w7tsc.org/ [18][68]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/ _______________________________________________ Detomaso? Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5? Megabytes DeTomaso mailing? list [19][69]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com<[70]mailto:DeTomaso@server.det omasolist.com> [20][71]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To? manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the? links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to? forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the? list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or? approve the archiving of list? messages. ?? To use a cliche, we're working on it. ?? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.? However, there are ?? restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently stand. ?? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels, ?? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club ?? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or ?? amendments must be approved by the whole membership. ?? The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would continue as a print ?? publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it ?? digitally. ?? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so ?? expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit ?? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit ?? increases but not proportionately. ?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer and ?? the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference ?? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run. ?? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have the most ?? influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are the ?? ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular ?? basis. ?? Bob Reid ?? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ?? [21][72]asajay@asajay.com<[73]mailto:asajay@asajay.com> writes: ???? The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was ???? interested ???? in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for ???? me, ???? it's a wait and see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out ???? on ???? full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss. ???? However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs ???? properly.? I have more faith that the present board members will ???? properly investigate and sort it out for everyone. ???? I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's nice ???? to ???? just sit back and read a paper copy too.? It's also easier to ???? hand-off ???? to Sam so he can read it later.? How do you really fix that? ???? I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership ???? database might be able to include a "preference" as part of the ???? member's ???? profile or details.? Just as I can set an address and phone number, ???? if I ???? could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies, or both, ???? and ???? select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus Newsletter), ???? that might be ideal. ???? However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well ???? could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to ???? print ???? 50, or 10 (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the ???? board will look at as well. ???? Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from ???? more ???? than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA ???? changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter content that ???? in ???? essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For a guy that ???? appeared ???? to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and ???? it's ???? unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they ???? applied ???? to him. ???? For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers ???? -twice- ???? since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related to the DeRykes) got out ???? of ???? the business.? So the "family tie-in" previously eluded to, was not ???? a ???? factor in the resignations. ???? Just my $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) ???? Asa? Jay ???? Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired ???? &? Shelley Marie ???? Spokane, WA ???? ****************************** ???? [22][74]http://w7tsc.org/ ???? [23][75]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/ ???? _______________________________________________ ???? Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA ???? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes ???? DeTomaso mailing list ???? [24][76]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com<[77]mailto:DeTomaso@server.det omasolist.com> ???? [25][78]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso ???? To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, ???? etc.) use the links above. ???? Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward ???? any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of ???? the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an ???? archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [26][79]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com<[80]mailto:DeTomaso@server.det omasolist.com> [27][81]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
Hey Terry, Did the writers on Big Bang Theory consult with you for the episode where Howard Wolowitz crashed the Mars rover into a ditch while trying to impress his girlfriend? Not that you guys would ever stoop to such shenanigans at JPL ;<D. Doug -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Himes, Terry (397C) Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 1:34 PM To: Ken Green; laurieferrari@aol.com; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sam Ken (et al), My dad said the same thing about me listening too much to Beatle music. LOL ;-) Then I started a band and played with people like Bob Seger (Seger System), Amboy Dukes, and the Scott Richard Case all over southern Michigan. Brought in some cash doing it too. The kids that I work with, and even hire (20 something millennial's) do seem to spend too much time with their phones constantly. But when I nailed them down about it, they said they are keeping in-touch with their friends. They all have formed a group of new-hires and keep in-touch constantly. Seems weird to me, but that is their social network. They plan all week for their outdoors trips on the weekend. They go to the Sequoia Nat'l forest, Kings Canyon, and Sierra Nevada mountains almost EVERY weekend. They go hiking, rock-climbing, camping, and in winter skiing. Last weekend them climbed Mt Whitney. Outstanding. My 17 year old grandson is addicted to video games. But he is a straight "A" student, plays soccer and Lacrosse all weekend, and will graduate high-school with almost an "Associates Degree" from the local college courses he takes. So, whenever, I think the world is going "to hell innna hand basket" I step back and think, maybe it's just different than when I grew up. I think kids today are amazing. And smart. Just my opinion. Terry "A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan, stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!" Terry W. Himes JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory Dawn Spacecraft Team Rosetta Sequence Team Lead Phone: (818) 393-6261 Cell: (818) 653-8213 Fax: (818) 393-3147 thimes@jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:thimes@jpl.nasa.gov> 🇺🇸
Great comment Terry! "So, whenever, I think the world is going "to hell innna hand basket" I step back and think, maybe it's just different than when I grew up. I think kids today are amazing. And smart. Just my opinion. Terry" Now that my son is earning some money on his break from college he's been building his super gaming computer. He wants to "overclock" his CPU to get "more power"! This requires more cooling so he has a high flow liquid CPU cooler radiator and found a way to packed more fans into the box. He spends hours researching the best parts for his "build" and shares notes with others on the computer build forums.... Sounds familiar! Just different :) Dennis Valdez
On Aug 15, 2016, at 11:34 AM, Himes, Terry (397C) <terry.himes@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
Ken (et al), My dad said the same thing about me listening too much to Beatle music. LOL ;-) Then I started a band and played with people like Bob Seger (Seger System), Amboy Dukes, and the Scott Richard Case all over southern Michigan. Brought in some cash doing it too. The kids that I work with, and even hire (20 something millennial's) do seem to spend too much time with their phones constantly. But when I nailed them down about it, they said they are keeping in-touch with their friends. They all have formed a group of new-hires and keep in-touch constantly. Seems weird to me, but that is their social network. They plan all week for their outdoors trips on the weekend. They go to the Sequoia Nat'l forest, Kings Canyon, and Sierra Nevada mountains almost EVERY weekend. They go hiking, rock-climbing, camping, and in winter skiing. Last weekend them climbed Mt Whitney. Outstanding. My 17 year old grandson is addicted to video games. But he is a straight "A" student, plays soccer and Lacrosse all weekend, and will graduate high-school with almost an "Associates Degree" from the local college courses he takes. So, whenever, I think the world is going "to hell innna hand basket" I step back and think, maybe it's just different than when I grew up. I think kids today are amazing. And smart. Just my opinion. Terry
"A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan,
stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!"
Terry W. Himes
JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Dawn Spacecraft Team
Rosetta Sequence Team Lead
Phone: (818) 393-6261
Cell: (818) 653-8213
Fax: (818) 393-3147
[1]thimes@jpl.nasa.gov
From: DeTomaso <[2]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of Ken Green via DeTomaso <[3]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Reply-To: Ken Green <[4]kenn_green@yahoo.com> Date: Monday, August 15, 2016 10:58 AM To: "[5]laurieferrari@aol.com" <[6]laurieferrari@aol.com>, "[7]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com" <[8]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sam
Laurie, The same young people spend the rest of the day glued to their smart phones unaware of the physical world around them. I suspect they also have no interest in cars unless the cars are in a video game. They have one foot in the Matrix and would not object to living in virtual realty if that could be arranged. I worry about the future of mankind. Ken From: Laurie Ferrari via DeTomaso <[9]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To: [10]laurieferrari@aol.com; [11]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 10:10 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sam
p.s. In my experience with young people of the day, they are more adapted to and capable of reading electronic material than most adults I know. Many classrooms now use Ipads. Laurie I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? -----Original Message----- From: laurieferrari <[12]laurieferrari@aol.com> To: detomaso <[13]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:57 am Subject: Re: resignations Dear AJ, I have always respected you and your opinions but in this case you are incorrect as far as the resignation of Jack DeRyke. I was on the Board of Directors' conference call where he was asked to stay and he adamantly refused to if the printer changed. Jack's resignation was specifically because of the change in printer! You can go research that phone conference call, or the minutes of the meeting, as the facts are saved. As far as Mike Haney's resignation, that was done by his Mrs. for their reasons which most likely were aligned with their parents. Laurie In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? [1][14]asajay@asajay.com writes: The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.? However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the member's profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the board will? look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out of the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa? Jay Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired &? Shelley? Mar -----Original Message----- From: detomaso-request <detomaso-[2][15]request@server.detomasolist.com> To: detomaso <[3][16]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:00 am Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue 20 Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to [4][17]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit [5][18]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to detomaso-[6][19]request@server.detomasolist.com You can reach the person managing the list at detomaso-[7][20]owner@server.detomasolist.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..." Daily Detomaso List Digest Today's Topics: 1. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (marshallgsmith) 2. Re: De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! again $250K!! (Michael Cox) 3. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (Stephen)
Calling this situation "multiple dues levels" seems to be making
What is your estimate of the length of time that it would take the board to arrange for a vote of the membership to change the bylaws to allow for this discount? Who specifically made that apples-to-apples comparison you refer to? I agree that the editors should have the most influence ?on the process. ?However, our editors of both publications seem to have a hard time reporting to the members about ANY issues pertaining to the publication's themselves. Might that change in the near future or will radio silence be the norm here? Marshall Smith Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <[13][26]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00) To: [14][27]asajay@asajay.com, [15][28]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic To use a cliche, we're working on it.? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.?? However, there are restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently? stand.? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels,? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or? amendments must be approved by the whole membership. The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would? continue as a
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:27:43 -0700 From: marshallgsmith <[8][21]marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net> To: [9][22]P6746@aol.com, [10][23]asajay@asajay.com, [11][24]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic Message-ID: <[12][25]sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405@email.android.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I have a couple questions Bob: the issue too complex. There are some members that are opting to not have printed magazines mailed which should make those members eligible for a discount because of the savings. print publication for all except foreign members who elect to? receive it digitally.? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is? so expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit? increases but not proportionately.?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online? printer and the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have? the most influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are? the ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular? basis. Bob Reid? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? [16][29]asajay@asajay.com writes: The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.? However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the member's profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the board will? look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out of the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa? Jay Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired &? Shelley? Marie Spokane,? WA ****************************** [17][30]http://w7tsc.org/ [18][31]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/ _______________________________________________ Detomaso? Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5? Megabytes DeTomaso mailing? list [19][32]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [20][33]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To? manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the? links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to? forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the? list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or? approve the archiving of list? messages. ?? To use a cliche, we're working on it. ?? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.? However, there are ?? restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently stand. ?? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels, ?? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club ?? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or ?? amendments must be approved by the whole membership. ?? The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would continue as a print ?? publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it ?? digitally. ?? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so ?? expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit ?? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit ?? increases but not proportionately. ?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer and ?? the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference ?? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run. ?? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have the most ?? influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are the ?? ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular ?? basis. ?? Bob Reid ?? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ?? [21][34]asajay@asajay.com writes: ???? The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was ???? interested ???? in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for ???? me, ???? it's a wait and see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out ???? on ???? full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss. ???? However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs ???? properly.? I have more faith that the present board members will ???? properly investigate and sort it out for everyone. ???? I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's nice ???? to ???? just sit back and read a paper copy too.? It's also easier to ???? hand-off ???? to Sam so he can read it later.? How do you really fix that? ???? I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership ???? database might be able to include a "preference" as part of the ???? member's ???? profile or details.? Just as I can set an address and phone number, ???? if I ???? could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies, or both, ???? and ???? select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus Newsletter), ???? that might be ideal. ???? However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well ???? could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to ???? print ???? 50, or 10 (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the ???? board will look at as well. ???? Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from ???? more ???? than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA ???? changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter content that ???? in ???? essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For a guy that ???? appeared ???? to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and ???? it's ???? unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they ???? applied ???? to him. ???? For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers ???? -twice- ???? since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related to the DeRykes) got out ???? of ???? the business.? So the "family tie-in" previously eluded to, was not ???? a ???? factor in the resignations. ???? Just my $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) ???? Asa? Jay ???? Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired ???? &? Shelley Marie ???? Spokane, WA ???? ****************************** ???? [22][35]http://w7tsc.org/ ???? [23][36]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/ ???? _______________________________________________ ???? Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA ???? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes ???? DeTomaso mailing list ???? [24][37]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com ???? [25][38]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso ???? To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, ???? etc.) use the links above. ???? Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward ???? any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of ???? the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an ???? archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [26][39]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [27][40]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
participants (6)
-
Dennis Valdez -
Douglas Kelm -
Effie Richards -
Himes, Terry (397C) -
Ken Green -
laurieferrari＠aol.com