On Jun 11, 2016, at 1:40 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
AJ,
Since you had instrumentation, what were your temps when driving at freeway speeds?
Mike
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 11, 2016, at 13:18, Asa Jay Laughton <asajay@asajay.com> wrote:
Talking with another open road racer a few years ago about this topic, I was told you want about 230 degrees F and nothing near 290. That's a nearly 60 degree difference. But the way he gave me the information makes me think you want to make sure you stay down around
For open road racing, depnding on the engine build and speed, a racer
will definitely want an oil cooler. Last year I ran the 120 class and spent a good amount of time near 130. My oil temp ran right around 230, so I knew if I wanted to move up to the 130-140 class, I'd need to add an oil cooler.
Your mileage may vary, Asa Jay
Quoting Jack Donahue <demongusta@gmail.com>:
Once again, as summer approaches, cooling becomes an issue and topic
of some discussion. Rather than beating the radiator, water pump,
#4348 _______________________________________________
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What makes an air/oil cooler work is airflow through the cooler fins. I doubt that the pressure difference over an oil cooler in that position is significant, so it has limited effect on oil temp. Tomas <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-----> From: Scott Mead Photography [scott@scottmeadphotography.com] Sent: 11/6/2016 11:56:18 PM To: demongusta@gmail.com;MikeLDrew@aol.com Cc: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature Many moons ago, I saw a setup at Gary Hall's shop: He had installed a reverse-louvered, splash panel on the right rear with an oil cooler mounted to the inside (non-tire side) of the shield. The philosophy was that the spinning tire would provide a constant stream of air through the louvers at speed, cooling the oil. Whether it effectively worked, I have no idea, but it was a clean setup. FWIW, Scott -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Jack Donahue Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2016 10:55 AM To: Mike Drew Cc: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature Out of curiosity, where would you add an oil cooler? And would it be an air-to-liquid - or - liquid-to-liquid cooler? Having moved the A/C condenser to the front, I was thinking of using the original condenser-space for an air-to-liquid cooler with a pusher fan. I get the feeling, however, that it's a waste of time, which sounds good/great to me. The old "track-pushing-hard" syndrome left me a few years back. Always looking for a way to NOT look at the temp gauge on hot days in traffic. 230. People smarter than me will know a lot more than me. I also run Amsoil full synthetic and there is a temp for viscocity breakdown but I don't have the spec in front of me. thermostat, and pressure cap horses to death, I thought I would pursue the oil temperature. So, all you gurus, what is the normal range of an oil temperature in these beautiful beasts? My next little project (get in line) is to install an oil temp gauge. Waste of time? I guess I need some feedback. All input is appreciated. list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
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On Jun 11, 2016, at 1:40 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
AJ,
Since you had instrumentation, what were your temps when driving at freeway speeds?
Mike
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 11, 2016, at 13:18, Asa Jay Laughton <asajay@asajay.com> wrote:
Talking with another open road racer a few years ago about this topic, I was told you want about 230 degrees F and nothing near 290. That's a nearly 60 degree difference. But the way he gave me the information makes me think you want to make sure you stay down around
For open road racing, depnding on the engine build and speed, a
racer will definitely want an oil cooler. Last year I ran the 120 class and spent a good amount of time near 130. My oil temp ran right around 230, so I knew if I wanted to move up to the 130-140 class, I'd need to add an oil cooler.
Your mileage may vary, Asa Jay
Quoting Jack Donahue <demongusta@gmail.com>:
Once again, as summer approaches, cooling becomes an issue and
topic of some discussion. Rather than beating the radiator, water pump,
#4348 _______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. What makes an air/oil cooler work is airflow through the cooler fins. I doubt that the pressure difference over an oil cooler in that position is significant, so it has limited effect on oil temp. Tomas <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-----> From: Scott Mead Photography [scott@scottmeadphotography.com] Sent: 11/6/2016 11:56:18 PM To: demongusta@gmail.com;MikeLDrew@aol.com Cc: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature Many moons ago, I saw a setup at Gary Hall's shop: He had installed a reverse-louvered, splash panel on the right rear with an oil cooler mounted to the inside (non-tire side) of the shield. The philosophy was that the spinning tire would provide a constant stream of air through the louvers at speed, cooling the oil. Whether it effectively worked, I have no idea, but it was a clean setup. FWIW, Scott -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Jack Donahue Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2016 10:55 AM To: Mike Drew Cc: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature Out of curiosity, where would you add an oil cooler? And would it be an air-to-liquid - or - liquid-to-liquid cooler? Having moved the A/C condenser to the front, I was thinking of using the original condenser-space for an air-to-liquid cooler with a pusher fan. I get the feeling, however, that it's a waste of time, which sounds good/great to me. The old "track-pushing-hard" syndrome left me a few years back. Always looking for a way to NOT look at the temp gauge on hot days in traffic. 230. People smarter than me will know a lot more than me. I also run Amsoil full synthetic and there is a temp for viscocity breakdown but I don't have the spec in front of me. thermostat, and pressure cap horses to death, I thought I would pursue the oil temperature. So, all you gurus, what is the normal range of an oil temperature in these beautiful beasts? My next little project (get in line) is to install an oil temp gauge. Waste of time? I guess I need some feedback. All input is appreciated. list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
Agreed--I think the wheel well-mounted air-oil cooler was a monumental act of wishful thinking.... Mike Sent from my iPad
On Jun 12, 2016, at 1:43 AM, Tomas Gunnarsson <guson@home.se> wrote:
What makes an air/oil cooler work is airflow through the cooler fins. I doubt that the pressure difference over an oil cooler in that position is significant, so it has limited effect on oil temp.
Tomas
<-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-----> From: Scott Mead Photography [scott@scottmeadphotography.com] Sent: 11/6/2016 11:56:18 PM To: demongusta@gmail.com;MikeLDrew@aol.com Cc: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature
Many moons ago, I saw a setup at Gary Hall's shop: He had installed a reverse-louvered, splash panel on the right rear with an oil cooler mounted to the inside (non-tire side) of the shield. The philosophy was that the spinning tire would provide a constant stream of air through the louvers at speed, cooling the oil. Whether it effectively worked, I have no idea, but it was a clean setup.
FWIW,
Scott
-----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Jack Donahue Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2016 10:55 AM To: Mike Drew Cc: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature
Out of curiosity, where would you add an oil cooler? And would it be an air-to-liquid - or - liquid-to-liquid cooler? Having moved the A/C condenser to the front, I was thinking of using the original condenser-space for an air-to-liquid cooler with a pusher fan. I get the feeling, however, that it’s a waste of time, which sounds good/great to me. The old “track-pushing-hard” syndrome left me a few years back. Always looking for a way to NOT look at the temp gauge on hot days in traffic.
On Jun 11, 2016, at 1:40 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
AJ,
Since you had instrumentation, what were your temps when driving at freeway speeds?
Mike
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 11, 2016, at 13:18, Asa Jay Laughton <asajay@asajay.com> wrote:
Talking with another open road racer a few years ago about this topic, I was told you want about 230 degrees F and nothing near 290. That's a nearly 60 degree difference. But the way he gave me the information makes me think you want to make sure you stay down around 230. People smarter than me will know a lot more than me. I also run Amsoil full synthetic and there is a temp for viscocity breakdown but I don't have the spec in front of me.
For open road racing, depnding on the engine build and speed, a racer will definitely want an oil cooler. Last year I ran the 120 class and spent a good amount of time near 130. My oil temp ran right around 230, so I knew if I wanted to move up to the 130-140 class, I'd need to add an oil cooler.
Your mileage may vary, Asa Jay
Quoting Jack Donahue <demongusta@gmail.com>:
Once again, as summer approaches, cooling becomes an issue and topic of some discussion. Rather than beating the radiator, water pump, thermostat, and pressure cap horses to death, I thought I would pursue the oil temperature. So, all you gurus, what is the normal range of an oil temperature in these beautiful beasts? My next little project (get in line) is to install an oil temp gauge. Waste of time? I guess I need some feedback. All input is appreciated. #4348 _______________________________________________
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-- Asa Jay Laughton - sent from somewhere other than home ****************************************************** http://www.w7tsc.org http://www.teampanteraracing.com
_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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On Jun 11, 2016, at 1:40 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <[8]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
AJ,
Since you had instrumentation, what were your temps when driving at freeway speeds?
Mike
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 11, 2016, at 13:18, Asa Jay Laughton <[9]asajay@asajay.com> wrote:
Talking with another open road racer a few years ago about this topic, I was told you want about 230 degrees F and nothing near 290. That's a nearly 60 degree difference. But the way he gave me the information makes me think you want to make sure you stay down around
For open road racing, depnding on the engine build and speed, a
racer will definitely want an oil cooler. Last year I ran the 120 class and spent a good amount of time near 130. My oil temp ran right around 230, so I knew if I wanted to move up to the 130-140 class, I'd need to add an oil cooler.
Your mileage may vary, Asa Jay
Quoting Jack Donahue <[10]demongusta@gmail.com>:
Once again, as summer approaches, cooling becomes an issue and
topic of some discussion. Rather than beating the radiator, water pump,
#4348 _______________________________________________
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Agreed--I think the wheel well-mounted air-oil cooler was a monumental act of wishful thinking.... Mike Sent from my iPad On Jun 12, 2016, at 1:43 AM, Tomas Gunnarsson <[1]guson@home.se> wrote: What makes an air/oil cooler work is airflow through the cooler fins. I doubt that the pressure difference over an oil cooler in that position is significant, so it has limited effect on oil temp. Tomas <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-----> From: Scott Mead Photography [[2]scott@scottmeadphotography.com] Sent: 11/6/2016 11:56:18 PM To: [3]demongusta@gmail.com;[4]MikeLDrew@aol.com Cc: [5]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature Many moons ago, I saw a setup at Gary Hall's shop: He had installed a reverse-louvered, splash panel on the right rear with an oil cooler mounted to the inside (non-tire side) of the shield. The philosophy was that the spinning tire would provide a constant stream of air through the louvers at speed, cooling the oil. Whether it effectively worked, I have no idea, but it was a clean setup. FWIW, Scott -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [[6]mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Jack Donahue Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2016 10:55 AM To: Mike Drew Cc: [7]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature Out of curiosity, where would you add an oil cooler? And would it be an air-to-liquid - or - liquid-to-liquid cooler? Having moved the A/C condenser to the front, I was thinking of using the original condenser-space for an air-to-liquid cooler with a pusher fan. I get the feeling, however, that it's a waste of time, which sounds good/great to me. The old "track-pushing-hard" syndrome left me a few years back. Always looking for a way to NOT look at the temp gauge on hot days in traffic. 230. People smarter than me will know a lot more than me. I also run Amsoil full synthetic and there is a temp for viscocity breakdown but I don't have the spec in front of me. thermostat, and pressure cap horses to death, I thought I would pursue the oil temperature. So, all you gurus, what is the normal range of an oil temperature in these beautiful beasts? My next little project (get in line) is to install an oil temp gauge. Waste of time? I guess I need some feedback. All input is appreciated. list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [19]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [20]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [21]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [22]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:guson@home.se 2. mailto:scott@scottmeadphotography.com 3. mailto:demongusta@gmail.com 4. mailto:MikeLDrew@aol.com 5. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 6. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 7. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 8. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 9. mailto:asajay@asajay.com 10. mailto:demongusta@gmail.com 11. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 12. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 13. http://www.w7tsc.org/ 14. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/ 15. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 16. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 17. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 18. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 19. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 20. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 21. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 22. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
My oil cooler is mounted horizontally in front of the right rear wheel. I have a separate oil pump to circulate the oil. Last year I ran some ducting from my front spoiler to the oil cooler. While running at SSCC last year 140 to 160 my oil temp was at 190 if I left the oil pump running. I'm changing back to a scoop in front of the wheel to see what happens this year. Mark5481 On Sunday, June 12, 2016 4:47 AM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote: Agreed--I think the wheel well-mounted air-oil cooler was a monumental act of wishful thinking.... Mike Sent from my iPad On Jun 12, 2016, at 1:43 AM, Tomas Gunnarsson <[1]guson@home.se> wrote: What makes an air/oil cooler work is airflow through the cooler fins. I doubt that the pressure difference over an oil cooler in that position is significant, so it has limited effect on oil temp. Tomas <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-----> From: Scott Mead Photography [[2]scott@scottmeadphotography.com] Sent: 11/6/2016 11:56:18 PM To: [3]demongusta@gmail.com;[4]MikeLDrew@aol.com Cc: [5]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature Many moons ago, I saw a setup at Gary Hall's shop: He had installed a reverse-louvered, splash panel on the right rear with an oil cooler mounted to the inside (non-tire side) of the shield. The philosophy was that the spinning tire would provide a constant stream of air through the louvers at speed, cooling the oil. Whether it effectively worked, I have no idea, but it was a clean setup. FWIW, Scott -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [[6]mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Jack Donahue Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2016 10:55 AM To: Mike Drew Cc: [7]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature Out of curiosity, where would you add an oil cooler? And would it be an air-to-liquid - or - liquid-to-liquid cooler? Having moved the A/C condenser to the front, I was thinking of using the original condenser-space for an air-to-liquid cooler with a pusher fan. I get the feeling, however, that it's a waste of time, which sounds good/great to me. The old "track-pushing-hard" syndrome left me a few years back. Always looking for a way to NOT look at the temp gauge on hot days in traffic. > On Jun 11, 2016, at 1:40 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <[8]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote: > > AJ, > > Since you had instrumentation, what were your temps when driving at freeway speeds? > > Mike > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jun 11, 2016, at 13:18, Asa Jay Laughton <[9]asajay@asajay.com> wrote: > >> Talking with another open road racer a few years ago about this topic, I was told you want about 230 degrees F and nothing near 290. That's a nearly 60 degree difference. But the way he gave me the information makes me think you want to make sure you stay down around 230. People smarter than me will know a lot more than me. I also run Amsoil full synthetic and there is a temp for viscocity breakdown but I don't have the spec in front of me. >> >> For open road racing, depnding on the engine build and speed, a racer will definitely want an oil cooler. Last year I ran the 120 class and spent a good amount of time near 130. My oil temp ran right around 230, so I knew if I wanted to move up to the 130-140 class, I'd need to add an oil cooler. >> >> Your mileage may vary, >> Asa Jay >> >> >> >> >> Quoting Jack Donahue <[10]demongusta@gmail.com>: >> >>> Once again, as summer approaches, cooling becomes an issue and topic of some discussion. Rather than beating the radiator, water pump, thermostat, and pressure cap horses to death, I thought I would pursue the oil temperature. So, all you gurus, what is the normal range of an oil temperature in these beautiful beasts? My next little project (get in line) is to install an oil temp gauge. Waste of time? I guess I need some feedback. All input is appreciated. >>> #4348 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> >>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not >>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list >>> [11]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com >>> [12]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >>> >>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. >>> >>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. >> >> >> -- >> Asa Jay Laughton - sent from somewhere other than home >> ****************************************************** >> [13]http://www.w7tsc.org/ >> [14]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not >> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list >> [15]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com >> [16]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >> >> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. >> >> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed > 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [17]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > [18]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. 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References 1. mailto:guson@home.se 2. mailto:scott@scottmeadphotography.com 3. mailto:demongusta@gmail.com 4. mailto:MikeLDrew@aol.com 5. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 6. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 7. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 8. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 9. mailto:asajay@asajay.com 10. mailto:demongusta@gmail.com 11. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 12. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 13. http://www.w7tsc.org/ 14. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/ 15. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 16. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 17. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 18. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 19. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 20. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 21. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 22. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. My oil cooler is mounted horizontally in front of the right rear wheel. I have a separate oil pump to circulate the oil. Last year I ran some ducting from my front spoiler to the oil cooler. While running at SSCC last year 140 to 160 my oil temp was at 190 if I left the oil pump running. I'm changing back to a scoop in front of the wheel to see what happens this year. Mark 5481 On Sunday, June 12, 2016 4:47 AM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote: Agreed--I think the wheel well-mounted air-oil cooler was a monumental act of wishful thinking.... Mike Sent from my iPad On Jun 12, 2016, at 1:43 AM, Tomas Gunnarsson <[1][1]guson@home.se> wrote: What makes an air/oil cooler work is airflow through the cooler fins. I doubt that the pressure difference over an oil cooler in that position is significant, so it has limited effect on oil temp. Tomas <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-----> From: Scott Mead Photography [[2][2]scott@scottmeadphotography.com] Sent: 11/6/2016 11:56:18 PM To: [3][3]demongusta@gmail.com;[4][4]MikeLDrew@aol.com Cc: [5][5]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature Many moons ago, I saw a setup at Gary Hall's shop: He had installed a reverse-louvered, splash panel on the right rear with an oil cooler mounted to the inside (non-tire side) of the shield. The philosophy was that the spinning tire would provide a constant stream of air through the louvers at speed, cooling the oil. Whether it effectively worked, I have no idea, but it was a clean setup. FWIW, Scott -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [[6]mailto:[6]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Jack Donahue Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2016 10:55 AM To: Mike Drew Cc: [7][7]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature Out of curiosity, where would you add an oil cooler? And would it be an air-to-liquid - or - liquid-to-liquid cooler? Having moved the A/C condenser to the front, I was thinking of using the original condenser-space for an air-to-liquid cooler with a pusher fan. I get the feeling, however, that it's a waste of time, which sounds good/great to me. The old "track-pushing-hard" syndrome left me a few years back. Always looking for a way to NOT look at the temp gauge on hot days in traffic. > On Jun 11, 2016, at 1:40 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <[8][8]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote: > > AJ, > > Since you had instrumentation, what were your temps when driving at freeway speeds? > > Mike > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jun 11, 2016, at 13:18, Asa Jay Laughton <[9][9]asajay@asajay.com> wrote: > >> Talking with another open road racer a few years ago about this topic, I was told you want about 230 degrees F and nothing near 290. That's a nearly 60 degree difference. But the way he gave me the information makes me think you want to make sure you stay down around 230. People smarter than me will know a lot more than me. I also run Amsoil full synthetic and there is a temp for viscocity breakdown but I don't have the spec in front of me. >> >> For open road racing, depnding on the engine build and speed, a racer will definitely want an oil cooler. Last year I ran the 120 class and spent a good amount of time near 130. My oil temp ran right around 230, so I knew if I wanted to move up to the 130-140 class, I'd need to add an oil cooler. >> >> Your mileage may vary, >> Asa Jay >> >> >> >> >> Quoting Jack Donahue <[10][10]demongusta@gmail.com>: >> >>> Once again, as summer approaches, cooling becomes an issue and topic of some discussion. Rather than beating the radiator, water pump, thermostat, and pressure cap horses to death, I thought I would pursue the oil temperature. So, all you gurus, what is the normal range of an oil temperature in these beautiful beasts? My next little project (get in line) is to install an oil temp gauge. Waste of time? I guess I need some feedback. All input is appreciated. >>> #4348 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> >>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not >>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list >>> [11][11]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com >>> [12][12]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >>> >>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. >>> >>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. >> >> >> -- >> Asa Jay Laughton - sent from somewhere other than home >> ****************************************************** >> [13][13]http://www.w7tsc.org/ >> [14][14]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not >> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list >> [15][15]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com >> [16][16]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >> >> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. >> >> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed > 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [17][17]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > [18][18]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. 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References 1. mailto:[23]guson@home.se 2. mailto:[24]scott@scottmeadphotography.com 3. mailto:[25]demongusta@gmail.com 4. mailto:[26]MikeLDrew@aol.com 5. mailto:[27]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 6. mailto:[28]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 7. mailto:[29]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 8. mailto:[30]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 9. mailto:[31]asajay@asajay.com 10. mailto:[32]demongusta@gmail.com 11. mailto:[33]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 12. [34]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 13. [35]http://www.w7tsc.org/ 14. [36]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/ 15. mailto:[37]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 16. [38]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 17. mailto:[39]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 18. [40]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 19. mailto:[41]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 20. [42]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 21. mailto:[43]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 22. [44]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [45]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [46]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:guson@home.se 2. mailto:scott@scottmeadphotography.com 3. mailto:demongusta@gmail.com 4. mailto:MikeLDrew@aol.com 5. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 6. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 7. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 8. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 9. mailto:asajay@asajay.com 10. mailto:demongusta@gmail.com 11. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 12. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 13. http://www.w7tsc.org/ 14. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/ 15. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 16. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 17. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 18. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 19. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 20. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 21. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 22. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 23. mailto:guson@home.se 24. mailto:scott@scottmeadphotography.com 25. mailto:demongusta@gmail.com 26. mailto:MikeLDrew@aol.com 27. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 28. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 29. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 30. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 31. mailto:asajay@asajay.com 32. mailto:demongusta@gmail.com 33. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 34. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 35. http://www.w7tsc.org/ 36. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/ 37. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 38. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 39. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 40. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 41. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 42. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 43. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 44. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 45. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 46. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
Interesting thread. It has been documented many decades back in the aircraft industry that heat exchangers were more efficient if the exchangers airflow speed was much lower than the vehicles speed. Cooling air needs time to conduct air from the cooling fins/coils surfaces otherwise the fins boundary air allows the laminar air rushing through to not touch the hot metal fins. So the ducts entry area needs to be less than the coolers surface area, maybe by 1/4th. Oil temps should always be warmer than the coolant up to about coolants 210 F, though the oil heat rejection reserve capacity must be greater than that of the coolants so that at extreme temps the oils temp does not rise quicker nor higher than the coolant. After 230F + -, oil temps under load will rise much quicker than coolant temps so a larger reserve heat rejection option relative to coolants reserve design must be present so to not allow dangerous oil temps, ie; 280F. The oil is primary in cooling all the interior heated parts directly whereas coolant takes heat from surfaces that are secondary heat conductors, are a slave to radiated heat or metals that capture/hold heat from friction. Large oil coolers with a thermostatic controlled variable duct nozzle entry and thermostatically controlled oil flow may work the best in heat rejection to air. Whereas a Laminova tubular coolers work the best in a cooling liquid because of the high surface area and has a better ability to keep both temp closer together. Keep cool, Jeff Cobb On Jun 12, 2016, at 8:26 AM, mark skwarek via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
On Jun 11, 2016, at 1:40 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <[8][8]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
AJ,
Since you had instrumentation, what were your temps when driving at freeway speeds?
Mike
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 11, 2016, at 13:18, Asa Jay Laughton <[9][9]asajay@asajay.com> wrote:
Talking with another open road racer a few years ago about this topic, I was told you want about 230 degrees F and nothing near 290. That's a nearly 60 degree difference. But the way he gave me the information makes me think you want to make sure you stay down around 230. People smarter than me will know a lot more than me. I also run Amsoil full synthetic and there is a temp for viscocity breakdown but I don't have the spec in front of me.
For open road racing, depnding on the engine build and speed, a racer will definitely want an oil cooler. Last year I ran the 120 class and spent a good amount of time near 130. My oil temp ran right around 230, so I knew if I wanted to move up to the 130-140 class, I'd need to add an oil cooler.
Your mileage may vary, Asa Jay
Quoting Jack Donahue <[10][10]demongusta@gmail.com>:
Once again, as summer approaches, cooling becomes an issue and topic of some discussion. Rather than beating the radiator, water
#4348 _______________________________________________
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-- Asa Jay Laughton - sent from somewhere other than home ****************************************************** [13][13]http://www.w7tsc.org/ [14][14]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
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My oil cooler is mounted horizontally in front of the right rear wheel. I have a separate oil pump to circulate the oil. Last year I ran some ducting from my front spoiler to the oil cooler. While running at SSCC last year 140 to 160 my oil temp was at 190 if I left the oil pump running. I'm changing back to a scoop in front of the wheel to see what happens this year. Mark 5481 On Sunday, June 12, 2016 4:47 AM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote: Agreed--I think the wheel well-mounted air-oil cooler was a monumental act of wishful thinking.... Mike Sent from my iPad On Jun 12, 2016, at 1:43 AM, Tomas Gunnarsson <[1][1]guson@home.se> wrote: What makes an air/oil cooler work is airflow through the cooler fins. I doubt that the pressure difference over an oil cooler in that position is significant, so it has limited effect on oil temp. Tomas <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-----> From: Scott Mead Photography [[2][2]scott@scottmeadphotography.com] Sent: 11/6/2016 11:56:18 PM To: [3][3]demongusta@gmail.com;[4][4]MikeLDrew@aol.com Cc: [5][5]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature Many moons ago, I saw a setup at Gary Hall's shop: He had installed a reverse-louvered, splash panel on the right rear with an oil cooler mounted to the inside (non-tire side) of the shield. The philosophy was that the spinning tire would provide a constant stream of air through the louvers at speed, cooling the oil. Whether it effectively worked, I have no idea, but it was a clean setup. FWIW, Scott -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [[6]mailto:[6]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Jack Donahue Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2016 10:55 AM To: Mike Drew Cc: [7][7]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature Out of curiosity, where would you add an oil cooler? And would it be an air-to-liquid - or - liquid-to-liquid cooler? Having moved the A/C condenser to the front, I was thinking of using the original condenser-space for an air-to-liquid cooler with a pusher fan. I get the feeling, however, that it's a waste of time, which sounds good/great to me. The old "track-pushing-hard" syndrome left me a few years back. Always looking for a way to NOT look at the temp gauge on hot days in traffic. pump, thermostat, and pressure cap horses to death, I thought I would pursue the oil temperature. So, all you gurus, what is the normal range of an oil temperature in these beautiful beasts? My next little project (get in line) is to install an oil temp gauge. Waste of time? I guess I need some feedback. All input is appreciated. the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [19][19]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [20][20]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. 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References 1. mailto:[23]guson@home.se 2. mailto:[24]scott@scottmeadphotography.com 3. mailto:[25]demongusta@gmail.com 4. mailto:[26]MikeLDrew@aol.com 5. mailto:[27]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 6. mailto:[28]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 7. mailto:[29]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 8. mailto:[30]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 9. mailto:[31]asajay@asajay.com 10. mailto:[32]demongusta@gmail.com 11. mailto:[33]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 12. [34]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 13. [35]http://www.w7tsc.org/ 14. [36]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/ 15. mailto:[37]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 16. [38]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 17. mailto:[39]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 18. [40]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 19. mailto:[41]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 20. [42]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 21. mailto:[43]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 22. 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References
1. mailto:guson@home.se 2. mailto:scott@scottmeadphotography.com 3. mailto:demongusta@gmail.com 4. mailto:MikeLDrew@aol.com 5. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 6. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 7. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 8. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 9. mailto:asajay@asajay.com 10. mailto:demongusta@gmail.com 11. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 12. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 13. http://www.w7tsc.org/ 14. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/ 15. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 16. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 17. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 18. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 19. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 20. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 21. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 22. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 23. mailto:guson@home.se 24. mailto:scott@scottmeadphotography.com 25. mailto:demongusta@gmail.com 26. mailto:MikeLDrew@aol.com 27. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 28. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 29. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 30. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 31. mailto:asajay@asajay.com 32. mailto:demongusta@gmail.com 33. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 34. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 35. http://www.w7tsc.org/ 36. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/ 37. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 38. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 39. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 40. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 41. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 42. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 43. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 44. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 45. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 46. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________
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Jeff, nice explanation. I'm not certain though from your science perspective if you would advocate the air or water cooling method over the other. Also, at what air speeds does the air cooling of fins on the radiator begin to breakdown? Would it be at speeds seen in typical race cars? (Less than 200mph) Asa Jay Learning something new every day. Quoting Jeff Cobb <jeffcobb1@me.com>:
Interesting thread. It has been documented many decades back in the aircraft industry that heat exchangers were more efficient if the exchangers airflow speed was much lower than the vehicles speed. Cooling air needs time to conduct air from the cooling fins/coils surfaces otherwise the fins boundary air allows the laminar air rushing through to not touch the hot metal fins. So the ducts entry area needs to be less than the coolers surface area, maybe by 1/4th.
Oil temps should always be warmer than the coolant up to about coolants 210 F, though the oil heat rejection reserve capacity must be greater than that of the coolants so that at extreme temps the oils temp does not rise quicker nor higher than the coolant. After 230F + -, oil temps under load will rise much quicker than coolant temps so a larger reserve heat rejection option relative to coolants reserve design must be present so to not allow dangerous oil temps, ie; 280F. The oil is primary in cooling all the interior heated parts directly whereas coolant takes heat from surfaces that are secondary heat conductors, are a slave to radiated heat or metals that capture/hold heat from friction. Large oil coolers with a thermostatic controlled variable duct nozzle entry and thermostatically controlled oil flow may work the best in heat rejection to air. Whereas a Laminova tubular coolers work the best in a cooling liquid because of the high surface area and has a better ability to keep both temp closer together.
Keep cool, Jeff Cobb
-- Asa Jay Laughton - sent from somewhere other than home ****************************************************** http://www.w7tsc.org http://www.teampanteraracing.com
Asa Jay, I recommend oil/water because it is not speed related, keeps both temps more constant and closer together, easier to place in, no real external possible problems, no airflow visual issues and lowers/removes the ability to have other problems like oil hose leakage, collisional oil hose actions, extra weight and space fitting problems, issues from hose rubbing noises, cabin temp increases, mounting problems and less aerodynamic drag. Of course the radiator must be up to snuff to capture and release this additional heat. My research/design and mock up of a 10qt marine oil pan for my Mangusta, with one or two Laminova round heat exchangers installed fore to aft, which I have four of, will bung nut and copper washer seal or be brazed in against the pans side wing front and rear walls. Then the radiators return water pipe will flex hose connect to the coolers neck with then a hose and pipe configuration attaching the coolers output to the w/p lower suction hose intake. I desire to do this and much more but I know that I CANNOT DO IT to this 4,600 mile car because of damaging its fine originality. So I will only dream, think and scheme. I need to get another goose and put these idea and many others to work. Any tired Mangusta out there that you would like to sell? For those of you who may be bored or would enjoy a good read, I wrote an eleven page list of betterment modifications to every part of the car that I can send to you, yea right. In this Mangusta overview we also used my electronic billet weight scales and weighed the car to find many written articles of weight and balance percentages to be wrong. My shop and I will be using this car in July to do body twist rigidity, weight transfer, center of gravity and off center axis weight center dry-wet-driverless-and driver test on a real word level so to establish an original Mangusta static and dynamic base line. We will not bolt down the body to find X# lb per degree twist, that would be only important if massive internal body/frame or roll bar changes were to take place and if racing was an option. Mike Drew said that if I were to apply these mods to my car that he would have me arrested, tried and hung for deTomasoMangustahomicide. Jeff Cobb On Jun 12, 2016, at 11:36 AM, Asa Jay Laughton <asajay@asajay.com> wrote:
Jeff, nice explanation. I'm not certain though from your science perspective if you would advocate the air or water cooling method over the other. Also, at what air speeds does the air cooling of fins on the radiator begin to breakdown? Would it be at speeds seen in typical race cars? (Less than 200mph)
Asa Jay Learning something new every day.
Quoting Jeff Cobb <jeffcobb1@me.com>:
Interesting thread. It has been documented many decades back in the aircraft industry that heat exchangers were more efficient if the exchangers airflow speed was much lower than the vehicles speed. Cooling air needs time to conduct air from the cooling fins/coils surfaces otherwise the fins boundary air allows the laminar air rushing through to not touch the hot metal fins. So the ducts entry area needs to be less than the coolers surface area, maybe by 1/4th.
Oil temps should always be warmer than the coolant up to about coolants 210 F, though the oil heat rejection reserve capacity must be greater than that of the coolants so that at extreme temps the oils temp does not rise quicker nor higher than the coolant. After 230F + -, oil temps under load will rise much quicker than coolant temps so a larger reserve heat rejection option relative to coolants reserve design must be present so to not allow dangerous oil temps, ie; 280F. The oil is primary in cooling all the interior heated parts directly whereas coolant takes heat from surfaces that are secondary heat conductors, are a slave to radiated heat or metals that capture/hold heat from friction. Large oil coolers with a thermostatic controlled variable duct nozzle entry and thermostatically controlled oil flow may work the best in heat rejection to air. Whereas a Laminova tubular coolers work the best in a cooling liquid because of the high surface area and has a better ability to keep both temp closer together.
Keep cool, Jeff Cobb
-- Asa Jay Laughton - sent from somewhere other than home ****************************************************** http://www.w7tsc.org http://www.teampanteraracing.com
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Asa Jay, I recommend oil/water because it is not speed related, keeps both temps more constant and closer together, easier to place in, no real external possible problems, no airflow visual issues and lowers/removes the ability to have other problems like oil hose leakage, collisional oil hose actions, extra weight and space fitting problems, issues from hose rubbing noises, cabin temp increases, mounting problems and less aerodynamic drag. Of course the radiator must be up to snuff to capture and release this additional heat. My research/design and mock up of a 10qt marine oil pan for my Mangusta, with one or two Laminova round heat exchangers installed fore to aft, which I have four of, will bung nut and copper washer seal or be brazed in against the pans side wing front and rear walls. Then the radiators return water pipe will flex hose connect to the coolers neck with then a hose and pipe configuration attaching the coolers output to the w/p lower suction hose intake. I desire to do this and much more but I know that I CANNOT DO IT to this 4,600 mile car because of damaging its fine originality. So I will only dream, think and scheme. I need to get another goose and put these idea and many others to work. Any tired Mangusta out there that you would like to sell? For those of you who may be bored or would enjoy a good read, I wrote an eleven page list of betterment modifications to every part of the car that I can send to you, yea right. In this Mangusta overview we also used my electronic billet weight scales and weighed the car to find many written articles of weight and balance percentages to be wrong. My shop and I will be using this car in July to do body twist rigidity, weight transfer, center of gravity and off center axis weight center dry-wet-driverless-and driver test on a real word level so to establish an original Mangusta static and dynamic base line. We will not bolt down the body to find X# lb per degree twist, that would be only important if massive internal body/frame or roll bar changes were to take place and if racing was an option. Mike Drew said that if I were to apply these mods to my car that he would have me arrested, tried and hung for deTomasoMangustahomicide. Jeff Cobb On Jun 12, 2016, at 11:36 AM, Asa Jay Laughton <[1]asajay@asajay.com> wrote: Jeff, nice explanation. I'm not certain though from your science perspective if you would advocate the air or water cooling method over the other. Also, at what air speeds does the air cooling of fins on the radiator begin to breakdown? Would it be at speeds seen in typical race cars? (Less than 200mph) Asa Jay Learning something new every day. Quoting Jeff Cobb <[2]jeffcobb1@me.com>: Interesting thread. It has been documented many decades back in the aircraft industry that heat exchangers were more efficient if the exchangers airflow speed was much lower than the vehicles speed. Cooling air needs time to conduct air from the cooling fins/coils surfaces otherwise the fins boundary air allows the laminar air rushing through to not touch the hot metal fins. So the ducts entry area needs to be less than the coolers surface area, maybe by 1/4th. Oil temps should always be warmer than the coolant up to about coolants 210 F, though the oil heat rejection reserve capacity must be greater than that of the coolants so that at extreme temps the oils temp does not rise quicker nor higher than the coolant. After 230F + -, oil temps under load will rise much quicker than coolant temps so a larger reserve heat rejection option relative to coolants reserve design must be present so to not allow dangerous oil temps, ie; 280F. The oil is primary in cooling all the interior heated parts directly whereas coolant takes heat from surfaces that are secondary heat conductors, are a slave to radiated heat or metals that capture/hold heat from friction. Large oil coolers with a thermostatic controlled variable duct nozzle entry and thermostatically controlled oil flow may work the best in heat rejection to air. Whereas a Laminova tubular coolers work the best in a cooling liquid because of the high surface area and has a better ability to keep both temp closer together. Keep cool, Jeff Cobb -- Asa Jay Laughton - sent from somewhere other than home ****************************************************** [3]http://www.w7tsc.org http://www.teampanteraracing.com _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:asajay@asajay.com 2. mailto:jeffcobb1@me.com 3. http://www.w7tsc.org/
Jeff, Do you think the "Laminova" type oil coolers the Ford used do a very good job? I don't think the Ford coolers have the cooling capacity of the coolers made by Laminova? Seems like they also restrict coolant flow. Ken From: Jeff Cobb <jeffcobb1@me.com> To: mark skwarek <ehpantera@yahoo.com>; Mike Drew <MikeLDrew@aol.com>; Tomas Gunnarsson <guson@home.se>; "detomaso@server.detomasolist.com" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2016 9:14 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature Interesting thread. It has been documented many decades back in the aircraft industry that heat exchangers were more efficient if the exchangers airflow speed was much lower than the vehicles speed. Cooling air needs time to conduct air from the cooling fins/coils surfaces otherwise the fins boundary air allows the laminar air rushing through to not touch the hot metal fins. So the ducts entry area needs to be less than the coolers surface area, maybe by 1/4th. Oil temps should always be warmer than the coolant up to about coolants 210 F, though the oil heat rejection reserve capacity must be greater than that of the coolants so that at extreme temps the oils temp does not rise quicker nor higher than the coolant. After 230F + -, oil temps under load will rise much quicker than coolant temps so a larger reserve heat rejection option relative to coolants reserve design must be present so to not allow dangerous oil temps, ie; 280F. The oil is primary in cooling all the interior heated parts directly whereas coolant takes heat from surfaces that are secondary heat conductors, are a slave to radiated heat or metals that capture/hold heat from friction. Large oil coolers with a thermostatic controlled variable duct nozzle entry and thermostatically controlled oil flow may work the best in heat rejection to air. Whereas a Laminova tubular coolers work the best in a cooling liquid because of the high surface area and has a better ability to keep both temp closer together. Keep cool, Jeff Cobb On Jun 12, 2016, at 8:26 AM, mark skwarek via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
My oil cooler is mounted horizontally in front of the right rear wheel. I have a separate oil pump to circulate the oil. Last year I ran some ducting from my front spoiler to the oil cooler. While running at SSCC last year 140 to 160 my oil temp was at 190 if I left the oil pump running. I'm changing back to a scoop in front of the wheel to see what happens this year. Mark 5481 On Sunday, June 12, 2016 4:47 AM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote: Agreed--I think the wheel well-mounted air-oil cooler was a monumental act of wishful thinking.... Mike Sent from my iPad On Jun 12, 2016, at 1:43 AM, Tomas Gunnarsson <[1][1]guson@home.se> wrote: What makes an air/oil cooler work is airflow through the cooler fins. I doubt that the pressure difference over an oil cooler in that position is significant, so it has limited effect on oil temp. Tomas <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-----> From: Scott Mead Photography [[2][2]scott@scottmeadphotography.com] Sent: 11/6/2016 11:56:18 PM To: [3][3]demongusta@gmail.com;[4][4]MikeLDrew@aol.com Cc: [5][5]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature Many moons ago, I saw a setup at Gary Hall's shop: He had installed a reverse-louvered, splash panel on the right rear with an oil cooler mounted to the inside (non-tire side) of the shield. The philosophy was that the spinning tire would provide a constant stream of air through the louvers at speed, cooling the oil. Whether it effectively worked, I have no idea, but it was a clean setup. FWIW, Scott -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [[6]mailto:[6]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Jack Donahue Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2016 10:55 AM To: Mike Drew Cc: [7][7]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature Out of curiosity, where would you add an oil cooler? And would it be an air-to-liquid - or - liquid-to-liquid cooler? Having moved the A/C condenser to the front, I was thinking of using the original condenser-space for an air-to-liquid cooler with a pusher fan. I get the feeling, however, that it's a waste of time, which sounds good/great to me. The old "track-pushing-hard" syndrome left me a few years back. Always looking for a way to NOT look at the temp gauge on hot days in traffic.
On Jun 11, 2016, at 1:40 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <[8][8]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
AJ,
Since you had instrumentation, what were your temps when driving at freeway speeds?
Mike
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 11, 2016, at 13:18, Asa Jay Laughton <[9][9]asajay@asajay.com> wrote:
Talking with another open road racer a few years ago about this topic, I was told you want about 230 degrees F and nothing near 290. That's a nearly 60 degree difference. But the way he gave me the information makes me think you want to make sure you stay down around 230. People smarter than me will know a lot more than me. I also run Amsoil full synthetic and there is a temp for viscocity breakdown but I don't have the spec in front of me.
For open road racing, depnding on the engine build and speed, a racer will definitely want an oil cooler. Last year I ran the 120 class and spent a good amount of time near 130. My oil temp ran right around 230, so I knew if I wanted to move up to the 130-140 class, I'd need to add an oil cooler.
Your mileage may vary, Asa Jay
Quoting Jack Donahue <[10][10]demongusta@gmail.com>:
Once again, as summer approaches, cooling becomes an issue and topic of some discussion. Rather than beating the radiator, water pump, thermostat, and pressure cap horses to death, I thought I would pursue the oil temperature. So, all you gurus, what is the normal range of an oil temperature in these beautiful beasts? My next little project (get in line) is to install an oil temp gauge. Waste of time? I guess I need some feedback. All input is appreciated. #4348 _______________________________________________
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Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [19][19]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [20][20]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [21][21]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [22][22]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:[23]guson@home.se 2. mailto:[24]scott@scottmeadphotography.com 3. mailto:[25]demongusta@gmail.com 4. mailto:[26]MikeLDrew@aol.com 5. mailto:[27]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 6. mailto:[28]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 7. mailto:[29]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 8. mailto:[30]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 9. mailto:[31]asajay@asajay.com 10. mailto:[32]demongusta@gmail.com 11. mailto:[33]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 12. [34]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 13. [35]http://www.w7tsc.org/ 14. [36]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/ 15. mailto:[37]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 16. [38]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 17. mailto:[39]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 18. [40]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 19. mailto:[41]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 20. [42]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 21. mailto:[43]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 22. [44]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [45]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [46]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
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My oil cooler is mounted horizontally in front of the right rear wheel. I have a separate oil pump to circulate the oil. Last year I ran some ducting from my front spoiler to the oil cooler. While running at SSCC last year 140 to 160 my oil temp was at 190 if I left the oil pump running. I'm changing back to a scoop in front of the wheel to see what happens this year. Mark 5481 On Sunday, June 12, 2016 4:47 AM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <[2]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote: Agreed--I think the wheel well-mounted air-oil cooler was a monumental act of wishful thinking.... Mike Sent from my iPad On Jun 12, 2016, at 1:43 AM, Tomas Gunnarsson <[1][1][3]guson@home.se> wrote: What makes an air/oil cooler work is airflow through the cooler fins. I doubt that the pressure difference over an oil cooler in that position is significant, so it has limited effect on oil temp. Tomas <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-----> From: Scott Mead Photography [[2][2][4]scott@scottmeadphotography.com] Sent: 11/6/2016 11:56:18 PM To: [3][3][5]demongusta@gmail.com;[4][4][6]MikeLDrew@aol.com Cc: [5][5][7]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature Many moons ago, I saw a setup at Gary Hall's shop: He had installed a reverse-louvered, splash panel on the right rear with an oil cooler mounted to the inside (non-tire side) of the shield. The
was that the spinning tire would provide a constant stream of air
the louvers at speed, cooling the oil. Whether it effectively worked, I have no idea, but it was a clean setup. FWIW, Scott -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [[6]mailto:[6][8]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Jack Donahue Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2016 10:55 AM To: Mike Drew Cc: [7][7][9]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature Out of curiosity, where would you add an oil cooler? And would it be an air-to-liquid - or - liquid-to-liquid cooler? Having moved the A/C condenser to the front, I was thinking of using the original condenser-space for an air-to-liquid cooler with a pusher fan. I get the feeling, however, that it's a waste of time, which sounds good/great to me. The old "track-pushing-hard" syndrome left me a few years back. Always looking for a way to NOT look at the temp gauge on hot days in traffic.
On Jun 11, 2016, at 1:40 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <[8][8][10]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
AJ,
Since you had instrumentation, what were your temps when driving at freeway speeds?
Mike
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 11, 2016, at 13:18, Asa Jay Laughton <[9][9][11]asajay@asajay.com> wrote:
Talking with another open road racer a few years ago about this topic, I was told you want about 230 degrees F and nothing near
_______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Jeff, Do you think the "Laminova" type oil coolers the Ford used do a very good job? I don't think the Ford coolers have the cooling capacity of the coolers made by Laminova? Seems like they also restrict coolant flow. Ken __________________________________________________________________ From: Jeff Cobb <jeffcobb1@me.com> To: mark skwarek <ehpantera@yahoo.com>; Mike Drew <MikeLDrew@aol.com>; Tomas Gunnarsson <guson@home.se>; "detomaso@server.detomasolist.com" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2016 9:14 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature Interesting thread. It has been documented many decades back in the aircraft industry that heat exchangers were more efficient if the exchangers airflow speed was much lower than the vehicles speed. Cooling air needs time to conduct air from the cooling fins/coils surfaces otherwise the fins boundary air allows the laminar air rushing through to not touch the hot metal fins. So the ducts entry area needs to be less than the coolers surface area, maybe by 1/4th. Oil temps should always be warmer than the coolant up to about coolants 210 F, though the oil heat rejection reserve capacity must be greater than that of the coolants so that at extreme temps the oils temp does not rise quicker nor higher than the coolant. After 230F + -, oil temps under load will rise much quicker than coolant temps so a larger reserve heat rejection option relative to coolants reserve design must be present so to not allow dangerous oil temps, ie; 280F. The oil is primary in cooling all the interior heated parts directly whereas coolant takes heat from surfaces that are secondary heat conductors, are a slave to radiated heat or metals that capture/hold heat from friction. Large oil coolers with a thermostatic controlled variable duct nozzle entry and thermostatically controlled oil flow may work the best in heat rejection to air. Whereas a Laminova tubular coolers work the best in a cooling liquid because of the high surface area and has a better ability to keep both temp closer together. Keep cool, Jeff Cobb On Jun 12, 2016, at 8:26 AM, mark skwarek via DeTomaso <[1]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote: philosophy through 290.
For open road racing, depnding on the engine build and speed, a
racer will definitely want an oil cooler. Last year I ran the 120 class and spent a good amount of time near 130. My oil temp ran right around 230, so I knew if I wanted to move up to the 130-140 class, I'd need to add an oil cooler.
Your mileage may vary, Asa Jay
Quoting Jack Donahue <[10][10][12]demongusta@gmail.com>:
Once again, as summer approaches, cooling becomes an issue and
topic of some discussion. Rather than beating the radiator, water
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That's a nearly 60 degree difference. But the way he gave me the information makes me think you want to make sure you stay down around 230. People smarter than me will know a lot more than me. I also run Amsoil full synthetic and there is a temp for viscocity breakdown but I don't have the spec in front of me. pump, thermostat, and pressure cap horses to death, I thought I would pursue the oil temperature. So, all you gurus, what is the normal range of an oil temperature in these beautiful beasts? My next little project (get in line) is to install an oil temp gauge. Waste of time? I guess I need some feedback. All input is appreciated. the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [19][19][21]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com
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References 1. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 2. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 3. mailto:guson@home.se 4. mailto:scott@scottmeadphotography.com 5. mailto:demongusta@gmail.com 6. mailto:MikeLDrew@aol.com 7. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 8. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 9. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 10. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 11. mailto:asajay@asajay.com 12. mailto:demongusta@gmail.com 13. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 14. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 15. http://www.w7tsc.org/ 16. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/ 17. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 18. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 19. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 20. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 21. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 22. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 23. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 24. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 25. mailto:guson@home.se 26. mailto:scott@scottmeadphotography.com 27. mailto:demongusta@gmail.com 28. mailto:MikeLDrew@aol.com 29. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 30. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 31. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 32. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 33. mailto:asajay@asajay.com 34. mailto:demongusta@gmail.com 35. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 36. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 37. http://www.w7tsc.org/ 38. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/ 39. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 40. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 41. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 42. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 43. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 44. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 45. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 46. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 47. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 48. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 49. mailto:guson@home.se 50. mailto:scott@scottmeadphotography.com 51. mailto:demongusta@gmail.com 52. mailto:MikeLDrew@aol.com 53. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 54. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 55. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 56. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 57. mailto:asajay@asajay.com 58. mailto:demongusta@gmail.com 59. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 60. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 61. http://www.w7tsc.org/ 62. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/ 63. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 64. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 65. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 66. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 67. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 68. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 69. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 70. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 71. mailto:guson@home.se 72. mailto:scott@scottmeadphotography.com 73. mailto:demongusta@gmail.com 74. mailto:MikeLDrew@aol.com 75. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 76. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 77. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 78. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 79. mailto:asajay@asajay.com 80. mailto:demongusta@gmail.com 81. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 82. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 83. http://www.w7tsc.org/ 84. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/ 85. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 86. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 87. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 88. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 89. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 90. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 91. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 92. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 93. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 94. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 95. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 96. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 97. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 98. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
Ken, The Ford coolers as used on Crown Vic police cars and taxis are made for Ford by Laminova. The external casting is to Ford specs for packaging reasons but the guts are pure Laminova. I have several of them I've had modified to take A/N fittings but have yet to find the time to install one on my car. I'm still trying to choose a mounting location.... Mike Sent from my iPhone On Jun 12, 2016, at 10:22, Ken Green <kenn_green@yahoo.com> wrote:
Jeff,
Do you think the "Laminova" type oil coolers the Ford used do a very good job? I don't think the Ford coolers have the cooling capacity of the coolers made by Laminova? Seems like they also restrict coolant flow.
Ken
From: Jeff Cobb <jeffcobb1@me.com> To: mark skwarek <ehpantera@yahoo.com>; Mike Drew <MikeLDrew@aol.com>; Tomas Gunnarsson <guson@home.se>; "detomaso@server.detomasolist.com" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2016 9:14 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature
Interesting thread. It has been documented many decades back in the aircraft industry that heat exchangers were more efficient if the exchangers airflow speed was much lower than the vehicles speed. Cooling air needs time to conduct air from the cooling fins/coils surfaces otherwise the fins boundary air allows the laminar air rushing through to not touch the hot metal fins. So the ducts entry area needs to be less than the coolers surface area, maybe by 1/4th.
Oil temps should always be warmer than the coolant up to about coolants 210 F, though the oil heat rejection reserve capacity must be greater than that of the coolants so that at extreme temps the oils temp does not rise quicker nor higher than the coolant. After 230F + -, oil temps under load will rise much quicker than coolant temps so a larger reserve heat rejection option relative to coolants reserve design must be present so to not allow dangerous oil temps, ie; 280F. The oil is primary in cooling all the interior heated parts directly whereas coolant takes heat from surfaces that are secondary heat conductors, are a slave to radiated heat or metals that capture/hold heat from friction. Large oil coolers with a thermostatic controlled variable duct nozzle entry and thermostatically controlled oil flow may work the best in heat rejection to air. Whereas a Laminova tubular coolers work the best in a cooling liquid because of the high surface area and has a better ability to keep both temp closer together.
Keep cool, Jeff Cobb
On Jun 12, 2016, at 8:26 AM, mark skwarek via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
On Jun 11, 2016, at 1:40 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <[8][8]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
AJ,
Since you had instrumentation, what were your temps when driving at freeway speeds?
Mike
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 11, 2016, at 13:18, Asa Jay Laughton <[9][9]asajay@asajay.com> wrote:
Talking with another open road racer a few years ago about this topic, I was told you want about 230 degrees F and nothing near 290. That's a nearly 60 degree difference. But the way he gave me the information makes me think you want to make sure you stay down around
For open road racing, depnding on the engine build and speed, a
racer will definitely want an oil cooler. Last year I ran the 120 class and spent a good amount of time near 130. My oil temp ran right around 230, so I knew if I wanted to move up to the 130-140 class, I'd need to add an oil cooler.
Your mileage may vary, Asa Jay
Quoting Jack Donahue <[10][10]demongusta@gmail.com>:
Once again, as summer approaches, cooling becomes an issue and
topic of some discussion. Rather than beating the radiator, water
#4348 _______________________________________________
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My oil cooler is mounted horizontally in front of the right rear wheel. I have a separate oil pump to circulate the oil. Last year I ran some ducting from my front spoiler to the oil cooler. While running at SSCC last year 140 to 160 my oil temp was at 190 if I left the oil pump running. I'm changing back to a scoop in front of the wheel to see what happens this year. Mark 5481 On Sunday, June 12, 2016 4:47 AM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote: Agreed--I think the wheel well-mounted air-oil cooler was a monumental act of wishful thinking.... Mike Sent from my iPad On Jun 12, 2016, at 1:43 AM, Tomas Gunnarsson <[1][1]guson@home.se> wrote: What makes an air/oil cooler work is airflow through the cooler fins. I doubt that the pressure difference over an oil cooler in that position is significant, so it has limited effect on oil temp. Tomas <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-----> From: Scott Mead Photography [[2][2]scott@scottmeadphotography.com] Sent: 11/6/2016 11:56:18 PM To: [3][3]demongusta@gmail.com;[4][4]MikeLDrew@aol.com Cc: [5][5]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature Many moons ago, I saw a setup at Gary Hall's shop: He had installed a reverse-louvered, splash panel on the right rear with an oil cooler mounted to the inside (non-tire side) of the shield. The philosophy was that the spinning tire would provide a constant stream of air through the louvers at speed, cooling the oil. Whether it effectively worked, I have no idea, but it was a clean setup. FWIW, Scott -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [[6]mailto:[6]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Jack Donahue Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2016 10:55 AM To: Mike Drew Cc: [7][7]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature Out of curiosity, where would you add an oil cooler? And would it be an air-to-liquid - or - liquid-to-liquid cooler? Having moved the A/C condenser to the front, I was thinking of using the original condenser-space for an air-to-liquid cooler with a pusher fan. I get the feeling, however, that it's a waste of time, which sounds good/great to me. The old "track-pushing-hard" syndrome left me a few years back. Always looking for a way to NOT look at the temp gauge on hot days in traffic. 230. People smarter than me will know a lot more than me. I also run Amsoil full synthetic and there is a temp for viscocity breakdown but I don't have the spec in front of me. pump, thermostat, and pressure cap horses to death, I thought I would pursue the oil temperature. So, all you gurus, what is the normal range of an oil temperature in these beautiful beasts? My next little project (get in line) is to install an oil temp gauge. Waste of time? I guess I need some feedback. All input is appreciated. the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
-- Asa Jay Laughton - sent from somewhere other than home ****************************************************** [13][13]http://www.w7tsc.org/ [14][14]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
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My oil cooler is mounted horizontally in front of the right rear wheel. I have a separate oil pump to circulate the oil. Last year I ran some ducting from my front spoiler to the oil cooler. While running at SSCC last year 140 to 160 my oil temp was at 190 if I left the oil pump running. I'm changing back to a scoop in front of the wheel to see what happens this year. Mark 5481 On Sunday, June 12, 2016 4:47 AM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <[9]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote: Agreed--I think the wheel well-mounted air-oil cooler was a monumental act of wishful thinking.... Mike Sent from my iPad On Jun 12, 2016, at 1:43 AM, Tomas Gunnarsson <[1][1][10]guson@home.se> wrote: What makes an air/oil cooler work is airflow through the cooler fins. I doubt that the pressure difference over an oil cooler in that position is significant, so it has limited effect on oil temp. Tomas <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-----> From: Scott Mead Photography [[2][2][11]scott@scottmeadphotography.com] Sent: 11/6/2016 11:56:18 PM To: [3][3][12]demongusta@gmail.com;[4][4][13]MikeLDrew@aol.com Cc: [5][5][14]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature Many moons ago, I saw a setup at Gary Hall's shop: He had installed a reverse-louvered, splash panel on the right rear with an oil cooler mounted to the inside (non-tire side) of the shield. The
was that the spinning tire would provide a constant stream of air
the louvers at speed, cooling the oil. Whether it effectively worked, I have no idea, but it was a clean setup. FWIW, Scott -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [[6]mailto:[6][15]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Jack Donahue Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2016 10:55 AM To: Mike Drew Cc: [7][7][16]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature Out of curiosity, where would you add an oil cooler? And would it be an air-to-liquid - or - liquid-to-liquid cooler? Having moved the A/C condenser to the front, I was thinking of using the original condenser-space for an air-to-liquid cooler with a pusher fan. I get the feeling, however, that it's a waste of time, which sounds good/great to me. The old "track-pushing-hard" syndrome left me a few years back. Always looking for a way to NOT look at the temp gauge on hot days in traffic.
On Jun 11, 2016, at 1:40 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <[8][8][17]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
AJ,
Since you had instrumentation, what were your temps when driving at freeway speeds?
Mike
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 11, 2016, at 13:18, Asa Jay Laughton <[9][9][18]asajay@asajay.com> wrote:
Talking with another open road racer a few years ago about this topic, I was told you want about 230 degrees F and nothing near
Ken, The Ford coolers as used on Crown Vic police cars and taxis are made for Ford by Laminova. The external casting is to Ford specs for packaging reasons but the guts are pure Laminova. I have several of them I've had modified to take A/N fittings but have yet to find the time to install one on my car. I'm still trying to choose a mounting location.... Mike Sent from my iPhone On Jun 12, 2016, at 10:22, Ken Green <[1]kenn_green@yahoo.com> wrote: Jeff, Do you think the "Laminova" type oil coolers the Ford used do a very good job? I don't think the Ford coolers have the cooling capacity of the coolers made by Laminova? Seems like they also restrict coolant flow. Ken __________________________________________________________________ From: Jeff Cobb <[2]jeffcobb1@me.com> To: mark skwarek <[3]ehpantera@yahoo.com>; Mike Drew <[4]MikeLDrew@aol.com>; Tomas Gunnarsson <[5]guson@home.se>; "[6]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com" <[7]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2016 9:14 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature Interesting thread. It has been documented many decades back in the aircraft industry that heat exchangers were more efficient if the exchangers airflow speed was much lower than the vehicles speed. Cooling air needs time to conduct air from the cooling fins/coils surfaces otherwise the fins boundary air allows the laminar air rushing through to not touch the hot metal fins. So the ducts entry area needs to be less than the coolers surface area, maybe by 1/4th. Oil temps should always be warmer than the coolant up to about coolants 210 F, though the oil heat rejection reserve capacity must be greater than that of the coolants so that at extreme temps the oils temp does not rise quicker nor higher than the coolant. After 230F + -, oil temps under load will rise much quicker than coolant temps so a larger reserve heat rejection option relative to coolants reserve design must be present so to not allow dangerous oil temps, ie; 280F. The oil is primary in cooling all the interior heated parts directly whereas coolant takes heat from surfaces that are secondary heat conductors, are a slave to radiated heat or metals that capture/hold heat from friction. Large oil coolers with a thermostatic controlled variable duct nozzle entry and thermostatically controlled oil flow may work the best in heat rejection to air. Whereas a Laminova tubular coolers work the best in a cooling liquid because of the high surface area and has a better ability to keep both temp closer together. Keep cool, Jeff Cobb On Jun 12, 2016, at 8:26 AM, mark skwarek via DeTomaso <[8]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote: philosophy through 290.
For open road racing, depnding on the engine build and speed, a
racer will definitely want an oil cooler. Last year I ran the 120 class and spent a good amount of time near 130. My oil temp ran right around 230, so I knew if I wanted to move up to the 130-140 class, I'd need to add an oil cooler.
Your mileage may vary, Asa Jay
Quoting Jack Donahue <[10][10][19]demongusta@gmail.com>:
Once again, as summer approaches, cooling becomes an issue and
topic of some discussion. Rather than beating the radiator, water
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That's a nearly 60 degree difference. But the way he gave me the information makes me think you want to make sure you stay down around 230. People smarter than me will know a lot more than me. I also run Amsoil full synthetic and there is a temp for viscocity breakdown but I don't have the spec in front of me. pump, thermostat, and pressure cap horses to death, I thought I would pursue the oil temperature. So, all you gurus, what is the normal range of an oil temperature in these beautiful beasts? My next little project (get in line) is to install an oil temp gauge. Waste of time? I guess I need some feedback. All input is appreciated. the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
-- Asa Jay Laughton - sent from somewhere other than home ****************************************************** [13][13][22]http://www.w7tsc.org/ [14][14][23]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
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References 1. mailto:kenn_green@yahoo.com 2. mailto:jeffcobb1@me.com 3. mailto:ehpantera@yahoo.com 4. mailto:MikeLDrew@aol.com 5. mailto:guson@home.se 6. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 7. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 8. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 9. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 10. mailto:guson@home.se 11. mailto:scott@scottmeadphotography.com 12. mailto:demongusta@gmail.com 13. mailto:MikeLDrew@aol.com 14. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 15. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 16. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 17. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 18. mailto:asajay@asajay.com 19. mailto:demongusta@gmail.com 20. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 21. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 22. http://www.w7tsc.org/ 23. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
Ken, Laminovas do a great job of heat rejection. The Laminovas I have and would like to use are about 43mm exterior core dia by 332 long. I would believe the Fords are smaller. Their best use would be to have, as used in some cars, an dynamic a/c freon/oil or coolant or turbo/supercharged pressured intake interface. Here is some info, http://97.74.32.155/files/laminova.pdf Jeff Cobb On Jun 12, 2016, at 12:22 PM, Ken Green <kenn_green@yahoo.com> wrote:
Jeff,
Do you think the "Laminova" type oil coolers the Ford used do a very good job? I don't think the Ford coolers have the cooling capacity of the coolers made by Laminova? Seems like they also restrict coolant flow.
Ken
From: Jeff Cobb <jeffcobb1@me.com> To: mark skwarek <ehpantera@yahoo.com>; Mike Drew <MikeLDrew@aol.com>; Tomas Gunnarsson <guson@home.se>; "detomaso@server.detomasolist.com" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2016 9:14 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature
Interesting thread. It has been documented many decades back in the aircraft industry that heat exchangers were more efficient if the exchangers airflow speed was much lower than the vehicles speed. Cooling air needs time to conduct air from the cooling fins/coils surfaces otherwise the fins boundary air allows the laminar air rushing through to not touch the hot metal fins. So the ducts entry area needs to be less than the coolers surface area, maybe by 1/4th.
Oil temps should always be warmer than the coolant up to about coolants 210 F, though the oil heat rejection reserve capacity must be greater than that of the coolants so that at extreme temps the oils temp does not rise quicker nor higher than the coolant. After 230F + -, oil temps under load will rise much quicker than coolant temps so a larger reserve heat rejection option relative to coolants reserve design must be present so to not allow dangerous oil temps, ie; 280F. The oil is primary in cooling all the interior heated parts directly whereas coolant takes heat from surfaces that are secondary heat conductors, are a slave to radiated heat or metals that capture/hold heat from friction. Large oil coolers with a thermostatic controlled variable duct nozzle entry and thermostatically controlled oil flow may work the best in heat rejection to air. Whereas a Laminova tubular coolers work the best in a cooling liquid because of the high surface area and has a better ability to keep both temp closer together.
Keep cool, Jeff Cobb
On Jun 12, 2016, at 8:26 AM, mark skwarek via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
On Jun 11, 2016, at 1:40 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <[8][8]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
AJ,
Since you had instrumentation, what were your temps when driving at freeway speeds?
Mike
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 11, 2016, at 13:18, Asa Jay Laughton <[9][9]asajay@asajay.com> wrote:
Talking with another open road racer a few years ago about this topic, I was told you want about 230 degrees F and nothing near 290. That's a nearly 60 degree difference. But the way he gave me the information makes me think you want to make sure you stay down around
For open road racing, depnding on the engine build and speed, a
racer will definitely want an oil cooler. Last year I ran the 120 class and spent a good amount of time near 130. My oil temp ran right around 230, so I knew if I wanted to move up to the 130-140 class, I'd need to add an oil cooler.
Your mileage may vary, Asa Jay
Quoting Jack Donahue <[10][10]demongusta@gmail.com>:
Once again, as summer approaches, cooling becomes an issue and
topic of some discussion. Rather than beating the radiator, water
#4348 _______________________________________________
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-- Asa Jay Laughton - sent from somewhere other than home ****************************************************** [13][13]http://www.w7tsc.org/ [14][14]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
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My oil cooler is mounted horizontally in front of the right rear wheel. I have a separate oil pump to circulate the oil. Last year I ran some ducting from my front spoiler to the oil cooler. While running at SSCC last year 140 to 160 my oil temp was at 190 if I left the oil pump running. I'm changing back to a scoop in front of the wheel to see what happens this year. Mark 5481 On Sunday, June 12, 2016 4:47 AM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote: Agreed--I think the wheel well-mounted air-oil cooler was a monumental act of wishful thinking.... Mike Sent from my iPad On Jun 12, 2016, at 1:43 AM, Tomas Gunnarsson <[1][1]guson@home.se> wrote: What makes an air/oil cooler work is airflow through the cooler fins. I doubt that the pressure difference over an oil cooler in that position is significant, so it has limited effect on oil temp. Tomas <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-----> From: Scott Mead Photography [[2][2]scott@scottmeadphotography.com] Sent: 11/6/2016 11:56:18 PM To: [3][3]demongusta@gmail.com;[4][4]MikeLDrew@aol.com Cc: [5][5]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature Many moons ago, I saw a setup at Gary Hall's shop: He had installed a reverse-louvered, splash panel on the right rear with an oil cooler mounted to the inside (non-tire side) of the shield. The philosophy was that the spinning tire would provide a constant stream of air through the louvers at speed, cooling the oil. Whether it effectively worked, I have no idea, but it was a clean setup. FWIW, Scott -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [[6]mailto:[6]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Jack Donahue Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2016 10:55 AM To: Mike Drew Cc: [7][7]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature Out of curiosity, where would you add an oil cooler? And would it be an air-to-liquid - or - liquid-to-liquid cooler? Having moved the A/C condenser to the front, I was thinking of using the original condenser-space for an air-to-liquid cooler with a pusher fan. I get the feeling, however, that it's a waste of time, which sounds good/great to me. The old "track-pushing-hard" syndrome left me a few years back. Always looking for a way to NOT look at the temp gauge on hot days in traffic. 230. People smarter than me will know a lot more than me. I also run Amsoil full synthetic and there is a temp for viscocity breakdown but I don't have the spec in front of me. pump, thermostat, and pressure cap horses to death, I thought I would pursue the oil temperature. So, all you gurus, what is the normal range of an oil temperature in these beautiful beasts? My next little project (get in line) is to install an oil temp gauge. Waste of time? I guess I need some feedback. All input is appreciated. the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [19][19]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [20][20]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [21][21]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [22][22]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:[23]guson@home.se 2. mailto:[24]scott@scottmeadphotography.com 3. mailto:[25]demongusta@gmail.com 4. mailto:[26]MikeLDrew@aol.com 5. mailto:[27]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 6. mailto:[28]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 7. mailto:[29]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 8. mailto:[30]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 9. mailto:[31]asajay@asajay.com 10. mailto:[32]demongusta@gmail.com 11. mailto:[33]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 12. [34]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 13. [35]http://www.w7tsc.org/ 14. [36]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/ 15. mailto:[37]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 16. [38]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 17. mailto:[39]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 18. [40]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 19. mailto:[41]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 20. [42]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 21. mailto:[43]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 22. [44]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [45]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [46]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
References
1. mailto:guson@home.se 2. mailto:scott@scottmeadphotography.com 3. mailto:demongusta@gmail.com 4. mailto:MikeLDrew@aol.com 5. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 6. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 7. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 8. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 9. mailto:asajay@asajay.com 10. mailto:demongusta@gmail.com 11. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 12. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 13. http://www.w7tsc.org/ 14. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/ 15. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 16. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 17. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 18. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 19. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 20. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 21. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 22. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 23. mailto:guson@home.se 24. mailto:scott@scottmeadphotography.com 25. mailto:demongusta@gmail.com 26. mailto:MikeLDrew@aol.com 27. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 28. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 29. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 30. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 31. mailto:asajay@asajay.com 32. mailto:demongusta@gmail.com 33. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 34. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 35. http://www.w7tsc.org/ 36. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/ 37. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 38. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 39. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 40. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 41. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 42. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 43. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 44. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 45. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 46. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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My oil cooler is mounted horizontally in front of the right rear wheel. I have a separate oil pump to circulate the oil. Last year I ran some ducting from my front spoiler to the oil cooler. While running at SSCC last year 140 to 160 my oil temp was at 190 if I left the oil pump running. I'm changing back to a scoop in front of the wheel to see what happens this year. Mark 5481 On Sunday, June 12, 2016 4:47 AM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <[10]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote: Agreed--I think the wheel well-mounted air-oil cooler was a monumental act of wishful thinking.... Mike Sent from my iPad On Jun 12, 2016, at 1:43 AM, Tomas Gunnarsson <[1][1][11]guson@home.se> wrote: What makes an air/oil cooler work is airflow through the cooler fins. I doubt that the pressure difference over an oil cooler in that position is significant, so it has limited effect on oil temp. Tomas <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-----> From: Scott Mead Photography [[2][2][12]scott@scottmeadphotography.com] Sent: 11/6/2016 11:56:18 PM To: [3][3][13]demongusta@gmail.com;[4][4][14]MikeLDrew@aol.com Cc: [5][5][15]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature Many moons ago, I saw a setup at Gary Hall's shop: He had installed a reverse-louvered, splash panel on the right rear with an oil cooler mounted to the inside (non-tire side) of the shield. The
was that the spinning tire would provide a constant stream of air
the louvers at speed, cooling the oil. Whether it effectively worked, I have no idea, but it was a clean setup. FWIW, Scott -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [[6]mailto:[6][16]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Jack Donahue Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2016 10:55 AM To: Mike Drew Cc: [7][7][17]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature Out of curiosity, where would you add an oil cooler? And would it be an air-to-liquid - or - liquid-to-liquid cooler? Having moved the A/C condenser to the front, I was thinking of using the original condenser-space for an air-to-liquid cooler with a pusher fan. I get the feeling, however, that it's a waste of time, which sounds good/great to me. The old "track-pushing-hard" syndrome left me a few years back. Always looking for a way to NOT look at the temp gauge on hot days in traffic.
On Jun 11, 2016, at 1:40 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <[8][8][18]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
AJ,
Since you had instrumentation, what were your temps when driving at freeway speeds?
Mike
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 11, 2016, at 13:18, Asa Jay Laughton <[9][9][19]asajay@asajay.com> wrote:
Talking with another open road racer a few years ago about this topic, I was told you want about 230 degrees F and nothing near
Ken, Laminovas do a great job of heat rejection. The Laminovas I have and would like to use are about 43mm exterior core dia by 332 long. I would believe the Fords are smaller. Their best use would be to have, as used in some cars, an dynamic a/c freon/oil or coolant or turbo/supercharged pressured intake interface. Here is some info, [1]http://97.74.32.155/files/laminova.pdf Jeff Cobb On Jun 12, 2016, at 12:22 PM, Ken Green <[2]kenn_green@yahoo.com> wrote: Jeff, Do you think the "Laminova" type oil coolers the Ford used do a very good job? I don't think the Ford coolers have the cooling capacity of the coolers made by Laminova? Seems like they also restrict coolant flow. Ken __________________________________________________________________ From: Jeff Cobb <[3]jeffcobb1@me.com> To: mark skwarek <[4]ehpantera@yahoo.com>; Mike Drew <[5]MikeLDrew@aol.com>; Tomas Gunnarsson <[6]guson@home.se>; "[7]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com" <[8]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2016 9:14 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature Interesting thread. It has been documented many decades back in the aircraft industry that heat exchangers were more efficient if the exchangers airflow speed was much lower than the vehicles speed. Cooling air needs time to conduct air from the cooling fins/coils surfaces otherwise the fins boundary air allows the laminar air rushing through to not touch the hot metal fins. So the ducts entry area needs to be less than the coolers surface area, maybe by 1/4th. Oil temps should always be warmer than the coolant up to about coolants 210 F, though the oil heat rejection reserve capacity must be greater than that of the coolants so that at extreme temps the oils temp does not rise quicker nor higher than the coolant. After 230F + -, oil temps under load will rise much quicker than coolant temps so a larger reserve heat rejection option relative to coolants reserve design must be present so to not allow dangerous oil temps, ie; 280F. The oil is primary in cooling all the interior heated parts directly whereas coolant takes heat from surfaces that are secondary heat conductors, are a slave to radiated heat or metals that capture/hold heat from friction. Large oil coolers with a thermostatic controlled variable duct nozzle entry and thermostatically controlled oil flow may work the best in heat rejection to air. Whereas a Laminova tubular coolers work the best in a cooling liquid because of the high surface area and has a better ability to keep both temp closer together. Keep cool, Jeff Cobb On Jun 12, 2016, at 8:26 AM, mark skwarek via DeTomaso <[9]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote: philosophy through 290.
For open road racing, depnding on the engine build and speed, a
racer will definitely want an oil cooler. Last year I ran the 120 class and spent a good amount of time near 130. My oil temp ran right around 230, so I knew if I wanted to move up to the 130-140 class, I'd need to add an oil cooler.
Your mileage may vary, Asa Jay
Quoting Jack Donahue <[10][10][20]demongusta@gmail.com>:
Once again, as summer approaches, cooling becomes an issue and
topic of some discussion. Rather than beating the radiator, water
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That's a nearly 60 degree difference. But the way he gave me the information makes me think you want to make sure you stay down around 230. People smarter than me will know a lot more than me. I also run Amsoil full synthetic and there is a temp for viscocity breakdown but I don't have the spec in front of me. pump, thermostat, and pressure cap horses to death, I thought I would pursue the oil temperature. So, all you gurus, what is the normal range of an oil temperature in these beautiful beasts? My next little project (get in line) is to install an oil temp gauge. Waste of time? I guess I need some feedback. All input is appreciated. the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [19][19][29]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com
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1. mailto:[57]guson@home.se 2. mailto:[58]scott@scottmeadphotography.com 3. mailto:[59]demongusta@gmail.com 4. mailto:[60]MikeLDrew@aol.com 5. mailto:[61]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 6. mailto:[62]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 7. mailto:[63]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 8. mailto:[64]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 9. mailto:[65]asajay@asajay.com 10. mailto:[66]demongusta@gmail.com 11. mailto:[67]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 12. [68]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 13. [69]http://www.w7tsc.org/ 14. [70]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/ 15. mailto:[71]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 16. [72]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 17. mailto:[73]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 18. [74]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 19. mailto:[75]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 20. [76]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 21. mailto:[77]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 22. [78]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 23. mailto:[79]guson@home.se 24. mailto:[80]scott@scottmeadphotography.com 25. mailto:[81]demongusta@gmail.com 26. mailto:[82]MikeLDrew@aol.com 27. mailto:[83]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 28. mailto:[84]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 29. mailto:[85]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 30. mailto:[86]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 31. mailto:[87]asajay@asajay.com 32. mailto:[88]demongusta@gmail.com 33. mailto:[89]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 34. [90]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 35. [91]http://www.w7tsc.org/ 36. [92]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/ 37. mailto:[93]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 38. [94]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 39. mailto:[95]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 40. [96]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 41. mailto:[97]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 42. [98]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 43. mailto:[99]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 44. [100]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 45. mailto:[101]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 46. [102]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________
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References 1. http://97.74.32.155/files/laminova.pdf 2. mailto:kenn_green@yahoo.com 3. mailto:jeffcobb1@me.com 4. mailto:ehpantera@yahoo.com 5. mailto:MikeLDrew@aol.com 6. mailto:guson@home.se 7. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 8. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 9. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 10. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 11. mailto:guson@home.se 12. mailto:scott@scottmeadphotography.com 13. mailto:demongusta@gmail.com 14. mailto:MikeLDrew@aol.com 15. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 16. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 17. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 18. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 19. mailto:asajay@asajay.com 20. mailto:demongusta@gmail.com 21. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 22. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 23. http://www.w7tsc.org/ 24. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/ 25. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 26. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 27. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 28. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 29. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 30. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 31. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 32. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 33. mailto:guson@home.se 34. mailto:scott@scottmeadphotography.com 35. mailto:demongusta@gmail.com 36. mailto:MikeLDrew@aol.com 37. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 38. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 39. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 40. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 41. mailto:asajay@asajay.com 42. mailto:demongusta@gmail.com 43. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 44. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 45. http://www.w7tsc.org/ 46. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/ 47. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 48. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 49. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 50. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 51. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 52. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 53. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 54. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 55. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 56. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 57. mailto:guson@home.se 58. mailto:scott@scottmeadphotography.com 59. mailto:demongusta@gmail.com 60. mailto:MikeLDrew@aol.com 61. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 62. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 63. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 64. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 65. mailto:asajay@asajay.com 66. mailto:demongusta@gmail.com 67. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 68. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 69. http://www.w7tsc.org/ 70. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/ 71. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 72. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 73. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 74. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 75. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 76. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 77. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 78. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 79. mailto:guson@home.se 80. mailto:scott@scottmeadphotography.com 81. mailto:demongusta@gmail.com 82. mailto:MikeLDrew@aol.com 83. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 84. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 85. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 86. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 87. mailto:asajay@asajay.com 88. mailto:demongusta@gmail.com 89. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 90. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 91. http://www.w7tsc.org/ 92. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/ 93. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 94. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 95. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 96. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 97. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 98. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 99. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 100. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 101. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 102. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 103. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 104. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 105. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 106. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
participants (6)
-
Asa Jay Laughton -
Jeff Cobb -
Ken Green -
mark skwarek -
Mike Drew -
Tomas Gunnarsson