ALLJust for what  it's worth. There is case law showing that digitization of copy writed  material is by itself not illegal. That ; that applies to part or whole documents . Case law states that unless the material is used in it's entirety in only some limited cases of commercial  gain does the copy write apply. Any use of the material for research, private usage , and in some cases like song or speech/ book parodies can be used entirely under the free use clause even of for commercial purposes .  ( the original artist or author must some how be given credit or is obvious) The requirements for digitization to allow search engines or;  like this list to make available to persons in the pursuit of knowledge and or restoration projects has fully been determined by the supreme court under case law to be legal under fair use. Next any site such as this site that is open to individuals posting their opinions, their information whether new , unique or rehashed copy writed material  because of the intent and purpose of this site is not for economic gain but educational and social use , That is enough to make the posting of information  be fair use. Next , what one may not understand is that after a 12 year period all documents associated with production of  equipment (almost all kinds)  has to be made available to after market and anyone requesting them from the original company to allow maintenance of obsoleted materials.I personally have gotten the original engineering documents  for Corvair parts even parts that were not ever put into production ( GM engineering doc) for ring and pinion parts to reverse the  rotation of the manual transaxle for mid engine applications to prevent pinion failure operating always in coast . next I have also gotten complete casting drawings from for Ford For their duratec V6 Lincoln ls cylinder heads on a request for motorsports support. ( best to know what the design casting wall locations and thicknesses are supposed to be rather than cut up too many expensive heads. ) . All were sent with the notation of released under FAIR USE of the patent and copy write laws . Posting of any material not specifically applied for copy write or poors mans copy write ( copy of material sealed in a certified mail and mailed to one's self)   has been determined to not be explicitly covered under copy write and is fair use every time. These are not  legal opinions but restating of information contained in the public record of the fair use doctrine with regards to copy write. Just remember all your book reports and any papers you wrote in college , you were allowed to use both verbatim as well as reworded information not your own creation by placing sub-notations or direct reference  giving credit  to the original source or you source and author . So free use is not a new concept it has been around  for quite some time. John Garcia   From: Ken Green via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To: "kdb@kbyrnes.com" <kdb@kbyrnes.com>; "DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com" <DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2016 12:18 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Copyright law   I know a lot more about patents and trademarks, and the Internet has   become the wild west of IP law.   I would think that because the "former poster" in fact posted the   content and knowingly put it into a searchable data base, his only   right would be against someone who copied and used the content in   another fashion.  What he is saying is something like telling everyone   he ever sent an email or letter to that they now have to delete the   email or destroy the letter.  Maybe offer to send an email to all the   forum members informing them that member X may sue them if they repost   any of his posts?   The issue with stuff like this is that occasionally you run into a   total jerk who threatens to sue.  IP law suits are so expensive and   stressful that you usually lose even if you win.   I can try to run this past an experienced IP litigator I know and see   what he thinks.  There should be case law by now that applies.   Ken     __________________________________________________________________   From: "kdb@kbyrnes.com" <kdb@kbyrnes.com>   To: kenn_green@yahoo.com; DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com   Sent: Monday, May 23, 2016 8:46 PM   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Copyright law   Thanks Ken.  The issue is a disgruntled former poster of the email list   has sent me a request to purge every post he has made to the list.  He   is claiming he owns the copyright to anything he has written.  Is he   correct?   Thanks,   Kurt   ------ Original message------   From: Ken Green   Date: Mon, May 23, 2016 11:27 PM   To: Kurt Byrnes[1];DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com;   Subject:Re: [DeTomaso] Copyright law   Generally, you are not free to use a copyrighted work in its entirely,   or substantial portions, but under the fair use, you can copy short   sections of it if you are commenting on them, not reproducing the work   as a whole.  If it's something simple like a photo or painting, you   cannot reproduce it in its original entirely, but I think there was a   case where the court found that a low resolution thumb nail version of   as copyrighted painting did not infringe because it would never be   blown up and used as art.   This looks pretty good:   [2]Using materials from the Internet                                   [3]image   [4]Using materials from the Internet   Using materials from the Internet   [5]View on [6]copyright.lib.utexas.edu   Preview by Yahoo     __________________________________________________________________   From: Kurt Byrnes [7]>   To:[8]mailto:%20DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com   Sent: Monday, May 23, 2016 1:41 PM   Subject: [DeTomaso] Copyright law   If you or anyone you know could please advise me in regards to   copyrights of material posted to the list, please contact me ASAP!   Sheesh!   _______________________________________________   Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA   Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes   DeTomaso mailing list   [9]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com   [10]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso   To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)   use the links above. References   1. mailto:;DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com   2. https://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/useofweb.html   3. https://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/useofweb.html   4. https://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/useofweb.html   5. https://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/useofweb.html   6. http://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/   7. mailto:%3Ckdb@kbyrnes.com   8. mailto:%20DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com   9. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com   10. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. ALL Just for what it's worth. There is case law showing that digitization of copy writed material is by itself not illegal. That ; that applies to part or whole documents . Case law states that unless the material is used in it's entirety in only some limited cases of commercial gain does the copy write apply. Any use of the material for research, private usage , and in some cases like song or speech/ book parodies can be used entirely under the free use clause even of for commercial purposes . ( the original artist or author must some how be given credit or is obvious) The requirements for digitization to allow search engines or; like this list to make available to persons in the pursuit of knowledge and or restoration projects has fully been determined by the supreme court under case law to be legal under fair use. Next any site such as this site that is open to individuals posting their opinions, their information whether new , unique or rehashed copy writed material because of the intent and purpose of this site is not for economic gain but educational and social use , That is enough to make the posting of information be fair use. Next , what one may not understand is that after a 12 year period all documents associated with production of equipment (almost all kinds) has to be made available to after market and anyone requesting them from the original company to allow maintenance of obsoleted materials. I personally have gotten the original engineering documents for Corvair parts even parts that were not ever put into production ( GM engineering doc) for ring and pinion parts to reverse the rotation of the manual transaxle for mid engine applications to prevent pinion failure operating always in coast . next I have also gotten complete casting drawings from for Ford For their duratec V6 Lincoln ls cylinder heads on a request for motorsports support. ( best to know what the design casting wall locations and thicknesses are supposed to be rather than cut up too many expensive heads. ) . All were sent with the notation of released under FAIR USE of the patent and copy write laws . Posting of any material not specifically applied for copy write or poors mans copy write ( copy of material sealed in a certified mail and mailed to one's self) has been determined to not be explicitly covered under copy write and is fair use every time. These are not legal opinions but restating of information contained in the public record of the fair use doctrine with regards to copy write. Just remember all your book reports and any papers you wrote in college , you were allowed to use both verbatim as well as reworded information not your own creation by placing sub-notations or direct reference giving credit to the original source or you source and author . So free use is not a new concept it has been around for quite some time. John Garcia __________________________________________________________________ From: Ken Green via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To: "kdb@kbyrnes.com" <kdb@kbyrnes.com>; "DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com" <DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2016 12:18 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Copyright law I know a lot more about patents and trademarks, and the Internet has become the wild west of IP law. I would think that because the "former poster" in fact posted the content and knowingly put it into a searchable data base, his only right would be against someone who copied and used the content in another fashion. What he is saying is something like telling everyone he ever sent an email or letter to that they now have to delete the email or destroy the letter. Maybe offer to send an email to all the forum members informing them that member X may sue them if they repost any of his posts? The issue with stuff like this is that occasionally you run into a total jerk who threatens to sue. IP law suits are so expensive and stressful that you usually lose even if you win. I can try to run this past an experienced IP litigator I know and see what he thinks. There should be case law by now that applies. Ken __________________________________________________________________ From: "[1]kdb@kbyrnes.com" <[2]kdb@kbyrnes.com> To: [3]kenn_green@yahoo.com; [4]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com Sent: Monday, May 23, 2016 8:46 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Copyright law Thanks Ken. The issue is a disgruntled former poster of the email list has sent me a request to purge every post he has made to the list. He is claiming he owns the copyright to anything he has written. Is he correct? Thanks, Kurt ------ Original message------ From: Ken Green Date: Mon, May 23, 2016 11:27 PM To: Kurt Byrnes[1];[5]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com; Subject:Re: [DeTomaso] Copyright law Generally, you are not free to use a copyrighted work in its entirely, or substantial portions, but under the fair use, you can copy short sections of it if you are commenting on them, not reproducing the work as a whole. If it's something simple like a photo or painting, you cannot reproduce it in its original entirely, but I think there was a case where the court found that a low resolution thumb nail version of as copyrighted painting did not infringe because it would never be blown up and used as art. This looks pretty good: [2]Using materials from the Internet [3]image [4]Using materials from the Internet Using materials from the Internet [5]View on [6]copyright.lib.utexas.edu Preview by Yahoo __________________________________________________________________ From: Kurt Byrnes [7]> To:[8]mailto:%[6]20DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com Sent: Monday, May 23, 2016 1:41 PM Subject: [DeTomaso] Copyright law If you or anyone you know could please advise me in regards to copyrights of material posted to the list, please contact me ASAP! Sheesh! _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [9][7]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [10][8]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. References 1. mailto:;[9]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 2. [10]https://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/useofweb.html 3. [11]https://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/useofweb.html 4. [12]https://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/useofweb.html 5. [13]https://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/useofweb.html 6. [14]http://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/ 7. mailto:%[15]3Ckdb@kbyrnes.com 8. mailto:%[16]20DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 9. mailto:[17]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 10. [18]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [19]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [20]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. References 1. mailto:kdb@kbyrnes.com 2. mailto:kdb@kbyrnes.com 3. mailto:kenn_green@yahoo.com 4. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 5. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 6. mailto:20DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 7. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 8. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 9. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 10. https://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/useofweb.html 11. https://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/useofweb.html 12. https://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/useofweb.html 13. https://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/useofweb.html 14. http://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/ 15. mailto:3Ckdb@kbyrnes.com 16. mailto:20DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 17. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 18. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 19. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 20. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso

What does this have to do with Panteras or DeTomaso?

What does this have to do with Panteras or DeTomaso? Reading between the lines, it appears POCA's "Dear Leader" saw someone re-posting one of his many unflattering posts and is threatening Kurt with legal action unless all of his posts are removed from the DeTomaso mailing list archives (claims he has copyright on all material he

Reading between the lines, it appears POCA's "Dear Leader" saw someone re-posting one of his many unflattering posts and is threatening Kurt with legal action unless all of his posts are removed from the DeTomaso mailing list archives (claims he has copyright on all material he posted to the list). That guy is a real piece of work and not who I want representing our club. My POCA membership is up for renewal and I'm having a very hard time justifying re-joining, even though I've been a member since the 1990s. Dan Jones posted to the list).A That guy is a real piece of work and not who I want representing our club.A My POCA membership is up for renewal and I'm having a very hard time justifying re-joining, even though I've been a member since the 1990s.A Dan Jones

Just keep in mind that people don't hold the office forever. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel C Jones" <daniel.c.jones2@gmail.com> To: "Ed Mendez" <edducati@mac.com> Cc: DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2016 11:56:57 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Copyright law

What does this have to do with Panteras or DeTomaso?

What does this have to do with Panteras or DeTomaso? Reading between the lines, it appears POCA's "Dear Leader" saw someone re-posting one of his many unflattering posts and is threatening Kurt with legal action unless all of his posts are removed from the DeTomaso mailing

Reading between the lines, it appears POCA's "Dear Leader" saw someone re-posting one of his many unflattering posts and is threatening Kurt with legal action unless all of his posts are removed from the DeTomaso mailing list archives (claims he has copyright on all material he posted to the list). That guy is a real piece of work and not who I want representing our club. My POCA membership is up for renewal and I'm having a very hard time justifying re-joining, even though I've been a member since the 1990s. Dan Jones _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Just keep in mind that people don't hold the office forever. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Steve __________________________________________________________________ From: "Daniel C Jones" <daniel.c.jones2@gmail.com> To: "Ed Mendez" <edducati@mac.com> Cc: DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2016 11:56:57 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Copyright law list archives (claims he has copyright on all material he posted to the list). That guy is a real piece of work and not who I want representing our club. My POCA membership is up for renewal and I'm having a very hard time justifying re-joining, even though I've been a member since the 1990s. Dan Jones _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.

I have a couple of months until I'm up for renewal, and there has to be some serious improvements before I renew. I have been a member since 2000, when I bought the car and with the current state of affairs I will just let my membership expire. Thomas 24 maj 2016 kl. 18:56 skrev Daniel C Jones <daniel.c.jones2@gmail.com>:

...

What does this have to do with Panteras or DeTomaso? Reading between the lines, it appears POCA's "Dear Leader" saw someone re-posting one of his many unflattering posts and is threatening Kurt with legal action unless all of his posts are removed from the DeTomaso mailing list archives (claims he has copyright on all material he posted to the list).A That guy is a real piece of work and not who I want representing our club.A My POCA membership is up for renewal and I'm having a very hard time justifying re-joining, even though I've been a member since the 1990s.A Dan Jones

---

Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso

To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.

In film up until the '70s unless you had a formal copyright and date you can republish without consulting the author. Written text is treated differently but I can't remember exactly how. I do know that as a guide, copyright lasts as long as the first appearance of Micky Mouse, primarily due to legal and legislative guidance from Walt Disney, Michael Eisner and others. The nice thing though is Buster Keaton movies are free to rebroadcast as much as you like :) Plagiarism is still bad form though so you should always cite your source if you can. But you can still republish items from the list or if you want to play it safe, use the Wayback machine and just submit the link. Then the disgruntled party will have to sue Archive.org and not you. https://archive.org/about/faqs.php sean On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 7:10 AM, JEFFREY COBB <jeffcobb1@me.com> wrote:

An Internet post is world wide public and the writer knew that when he posted. Did he issue and show a copy-write logo or statement? Of course he did not, he is just pissed and using this as a ploy to scare or force you to his way of thinking. To be sure, have him to produce his copy write papers that were filed in the state he lives!

He lost all rights when he pressed the send button unless he specified what he sent as copywritened and even that would be questionable.

Jeff Cobb- I pad W-225-343-7525 C-225-907-4514

Jeff Cobb Auto Works 1316 S. Acadian Thruway Baton Rouge, La. 70806

www.LiveOakConcours.org

On May 23, 2016, at 10:46 PM, kdb@kbyrnes.com <kdb@kbyrnes.com> wrote:

...

Thanks Ken. The issue is a disgruntled former poster of the email list has sent me a request to purge every post he has made to the list. He is claiming he owns the copyright to anything he has written. Is he correct?

Thanks,

Kurt

------ Original message------

From: Ken Green

Date: Mon, May 23, 2016 11:27 PM

To: Kurt Byrnes[1];DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com;

Subject:Re: [DeTomaso] Copyright law

Generally, you are not free to use a copyrighted work in its entirely, or substantial portions, but under the fair use, you can copy short sections of it if you are commenting on them, not reproducing the work as a whole. If it's something simple like a photo or painting, you cannot reproduce it in its original entirely, but I think there was a case where the court found that a low resolution thumb nail version of as copyrighted painting did not infringe because it would never be blown up and used as art. This looks pretty good: [2]Using materials from the Internet

[3]image

[4]Using materials from the Internet Using materials from the Internet [5]View on [6]copyright.lib.utexas.edu Preview by Yahoo __________________________________________________________________

From: Kurt Byrnes [7]> To:[8] DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com Sent: Monday, May 23, 2016 1:41 PM Subject: [DeTomaso] Copyright law If you or anyone you know could please advise me in regards to copyrights of material posted to the list, please contact me ASAP! Sheesh! _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [9]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [10]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.

References

1. mailto:;DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 2. https://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/useofweb.html 3. https://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/useofweb.html 4. https://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/useofweb.html 5. https://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/useofweb.html 6. http://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/ 7. mailto:<kdb@kbyrnes.com 8. mailto:%20DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 9. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 10. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________

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---

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-- Sean Korb spkorb@spkorb.org http://www.spkorb.org '65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera #1382 "The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso

You might be in the boat I got into once. A customer paid be to write a maintenance guide. Most of it was cut and paste from other customer's past reports. The guide was published, copyrighted, marked proprietary and since I was not an employee, I could not afford to get a copy! JFByrd -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Jack DeRyke via DeTomaso Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2016 14:15 PM To: kdb@kbyrnes.com; kenn_green@yahoo.com; DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Copyright law Gee, I guess that I own a copywrite to 265 POCA Newsletters 1996-2016, then! They were sent thru the Internet as pdfs to be printed.... J DeRyke Thanks Ken. The issue is a disgruntled former poster of the email list has sent me a request to purge every post he has made to the list. He is claiming he owns the copyright to anything he has written. Is he correct? Thanks, Kurt ------ Original message------ From: Ken Green Date: Mon, May 23, 2016 11:27 PM To: Kurt Byrnes[1];DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com; Subject:Re: [DeTomaso] Copyright law Generally, you are not free to use a copyrighted work in its entirely, or substantial portions, but under the fair use, you can copy short sections of it if you are commenting on them, not reproducing the work as a whole. If it's something simple like a photo or painting, you cannot reproduce it in its original entirely, but I think there was a case where the court found that a low resolution thumb nail version of as copyrighted painting did not infringe because it would never be blown up and used as art. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [9]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [10]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. References 1. mailto:;DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 2. https://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/useofweb.html 3. https://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/useofweb.html 4. https://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/useofweb.html 5. https://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/useofweb.html 6. http://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/ 7. mailto:<kdb@kbyrnes.com 8. mailto:%20DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 9. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 10. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.