Re: [DeTomaso] Quitting POCA for personal reasons
Wow Rob. Maybe you would like to run for POCA President. You sound like a stand up guy. Please don't quit the club. Sandi Snyder In a message dated 6/29/2016 12:54:21 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, rob@dumoulins.net writes: I suspect that many of you will opt out of reading this declaration. I understand and I am fairly confident that the reason I wrote it matches your reason for not wanting to read it. If you do, thank you for reading. If you reply, please do so only after reading it to the end. I hope you will see that this is not about me, but about POCA. Months ago, I resigned to sit on the sidelines and ignore POCA carnage around me while I focused on my own family life and automotive challenges of getting 1488 put back together. Weeks ago a decision was reached to not renew my POCA membership after being back in POCA for only one shortt but long year. The bulk of this email was composed weeks back with the intent to publish it only on the POCA site to keep it "in the family". I resurrected it now and my reasons to post to this forum are presented below. The first time I left POCA, it was because I felt that the West Coast leadership did not share my interests because I lived on the opposite side of the country. In fact, I was told such opinions directly. With no active chapter, there was no compelling reason continue as the only POCA member within at least 200 miles and I let my membership expire. Not a big deal. I leave POCA this time because not because I am on the opposite side of the country, but I feel the leadership has ventured into the opposite side of my sense of civility. Sadly enough, I leave at a time when my car is now restored and I am in a position to participate more regionally events. I can live with that especially and promote Panteras on my own if I do not have to deal with the baggage. As I hinted, reasons for leaving POCA this time are not because of the direction the club was going, but rather the means taken to do it. Being in the IT world, I am certainly biased in supporting the web-if-ication of the club, but at the same time I sympathize with and support almost all of the stated opposition. Everybody is entitled to an opinion and observations over the years has taught me that only dysfunctional "Families" ignore, discount, or belittle other member's opinions. A case cannot be made that I am a "criticizer and not a contributor" to POCA's success. Prior to the current website launch, I read the entire web hosting manual (not a small document to say the least), offered to help, was micromanaged to the extreme, tried to quell resistance on the old email list towards the new site based on the knowledge I gained from the manual, all while the hate speech started to flow from the vocal portion of the POCA leadership. At that point I started to question the means being used but still wanted to help the community. I have contributed to the "Pantera Interior" forum on the site by adding instructions on headliner replacement / speaker bar install in the interest of advancing the site and helping members. Also, I envisioned, enhanced and maintained the interactive graphical US map for the 911 list to include all 50 states and bordering Canada instead of just Southeast chapter participants. I seek nor desire praise for any of it. In fact I try to stay as anonymous as I can because my plate is so full right now I can only commit to what i choose to make time for. I mention this only so nobody could say that I was not fully vested in the success of the 'New POCA' experience and wanted it to succeed. Anybody suggesting otherwise is not genuine or not knowledgeable. Accusations that more people are not just jumping on board to help a sinking ship while the captain is willfully firing holes in the hull is utterly insane and is in my opinion propaganda, denial of self blame, or downright delusional. Not only can I not in good conscious recruit anybody else to join POCA right now, I feel fortunate that my membership expires soon. The last straw that made me no longer willing to watch the berating, hate speach, and psychotic behavior was to have a record of it "magically erased" from the POCA forum. For this, I hold the entire BOD responsible. For those of you reading this that are not in the 'Free World' or have yet to view the POCA site forums regularly, you may accept rewriting of history as protocol from your dictator regimes or are unaware of what is happening. Though we may feel helpless to deal with similar behavior from our governments, do we really expect to deal with this abuse from a freak-in car club? Does it matter that the POCA forum history will only reflect harmony and birds singing in the springtime any time relevant questions/discussions not fitting a controlled narrative occur are responded to with such revolting and utter contempt? "Control the narrative, control the situation" is a common way to erase skeletons. Just ask the Clintons (sorry, I had to sneak that shot in), and some unmentioned entity which recently tried to intimidate this list from having their past inflammatory remarks stripped from the record. Maybe to some people it does not matter, but to me it does, thus I walk away from POCA again. I have unsubscribed from all POCA forum notifications (not really missing much other than the same old impetuous vitriol), will let my membership lapse, will no longer support the POCA 911 Emergency Travel guide and map, and will not be present at the East Coast Fall event. I gladly offer to host any of the wonderful SE Pantera brethren as they travel North through Florida on their way to the event and hope to participate and support chapter events as able. I make the statement on THIS forum for one simple reason: I am confident that such a declaration would be erased from the POCA forum along with any character assassination against me that would follow. I really would like to have a record of fallout spew directed towards me before self-censorship of the POCA site occurs. Notice: Any private responses sent to me on this or any other topic may be shared with this community regardless of any disclaimers on your email stating not to share it. I beat you at your own game by declaring it first. Somehow, I suspect that creating the current POCA toxic atmosphere was done intentionally. Motives could be: - To drive away/discredit any opposition before a passive majority of its members subscribe to forum emails, then erase/replace it all the carnage with a narrative of how nobody volunteered to help, threw stones, and statements of good riddance? - To intimidate and silence opposing opinions turning them into disengaged low-information minions who pay dues? - A belief that short attention spans will forget this? - In the name of progress because the masses are fools that have to be led? Of course, these are just conspiracy theories, but my gut and view of actions from the inside says the degree of truth to all of them ranges from a little to right on the money. Your gastric outcomes may vary. Regardless of the motives, such activity and hate speech must be sanctioned by the POCA BOD, otherwise, it would have been stopped or at a minimum be publicly denounced. Not even once was it denounced nor has it diminished. I sincerely hope POCA survives this new public image it has created. I feel sorry for you Ed L. You seemed like a straight-up guy to me that was dealt a rotten situation until you requested that I not to use this email forum. If any BOD members are left standing if/when this ship sinks, you have only yourselves to blame for allowing one person to continue shooting vitriol speech when in hindsight you should have taken away his bullet points (not so subtle colloquialism intended). Even if you somehow craft an apology or stop the hate speech, don't be surprised when it does not fool anybody without actions to back it up. True colors have been shown and they are not pretty. Sad, but true that none of this was even necessary if not for the actions of one replaceable spokesperson representing the entire organization and a board that was indifferent for reasons unknown to at least me. I once considered the current President my friend. I have attended events with him, hosted him and his lovely wife Joanie while they were attending the Amelia Island Concourse, and he has hosted myself and my wife for the Hilton Head Concourse. At this stage in my life, I have no energy available to expend for any person or entity with his M.O., especially one that I pay dues to support. Micheal, please erase my contact information from your phone, email, and address book. I suspect we will never meet again. For everybody else, thank you all for being there for me and my car over these 8 long years of restoration. Proactive thanks for the years to come and I welcome the opportunity to meet and help any of you if the opportunity ever arises. Rob DuMoulin Caretaker of 1488 I suspect that many of you will opt out of reading this declaration. I understand and I am fairly confident that the reason I wrote it matches your reason for not wanting to read it. If you do, thank you for reading. If you reply, please do so only after reading it to the end. I hope you will see that this is not about me, but about POCA.A Months ago, I resigned to sit on the sidelines and ignore POCA carnage around me while I focused on my own family life and automotive challenges of getting 1488 put back together.A Weeks ago a decision was reached to not renew my POCA membership after being back in POCA for only one shortt but long year. The bulk of this email was composed weeks back with the intent to publish it only on the POCA site to keep it "in the family".A I resurrected it now and my reasons to post to this forum are presented below.A The first time I left POCA, it was because I felt that the West Coast leadership did not share my interests because I lived on the opposite side of the country. In fact, I was told such opinions directly.A With no active chapter, there was no compelling reason continue as the only POCA member within at least 200 miles and I let my membership expire. Not a big deal.A I leave POCA this time because not because I am on the opposite side of the country, but I feel the leadership has ventured into the opposite side of my sense of civility. Sadly enough, I leave at a time when my car is now restored and I am in a position to participate more regionally events. I can live with that especially and promote Panteras on my own if I do not have to deal with the baggage. As I hinted, reasons for leaving POCA this time are not because of the direction the club was going, but rather the means taken to do it. Being in the IT world, I am certainly biased in supporting the web-if-ication of the club, but at the same time I sympathize with and support almost all of the stated opposition. Everybody is entitled to an opinion and observations over the years has taught me that only dysfunctional "Families" ignore, discount, or belittle other member's opinions.A A case cannot be made that I am a "criticizer and not a contributor" to POCA's success. Prior to the current website launch, I read the entire web hosting manual (not a small document to say the least), offered to help, was micromanaged to the extreme, tried to quell resistance on the old email list towards the new site based on the knowledge I gained from the manual, all while the hate speech started to flow from the vocal portion of the POCA leadership.A At that point I started to question the means being used but still wanted to help the community. I have contributed to the "Pantera Interior" forum on the site by adding instructions on headliner replacement / speaker bar install in the interest of advancing the site and helping members. Also, I envisioned, enhanced and maintained the interactive graphical US map for the 911 list to include all 50 states and bordering Canada instead of just Southeast chapter participants. I seek nor desire praise for any of it.A In fact I try to stay as anonymous as I can because my plate is so full right now I can only commit to what i choose to make time for.A I mention this only so nobody could say that I was not fully vested in the success of the 'New POCA' experience and wanted it to succeed.A Anybody suggesting otherwise is not genuine or not knowledgeable. Accusations that more people are not just jumping on board to help a sinking ship while the captain is willfully firing holes in the hull is utterly insane and is in my opinion propaganda, denial of self blame, or downright delusional. Not only can I not in good conscious recruit anybody else to join POCA right now, I feel fortunate that my membership expires soon. The last straw that made me no longer willing to watch the berating, hate speach, and psychotic behavior was to have a record of it "magically erased" from the POCA forum.A For this, I hold the entire BOD responsible. For those of you reading this that are not in the 'Free World' or have yet to view the POCA site forums regularly, you may accept rewriting of history as protocol from your dictator regimes or are unaware of what is happening.A Though we may feel helpless to deal with similar behavior from our governments, do we really expect to deal with this abuse from a freak-in car club?A Does it matter that the POCA forum history will only reflect harmony and birds singing in the springtime any time relevant questions/discussions not fitting a controlled narrative occur are responded to with such revolting and utter contempt? A "Control the narrative, control the situation" is a common way to erase skeletons. Just ask the Clintons (sorry, I had to sneak that shot in), and some unmentioned entity which recently tried to intimidate this list from having their past inflammatory remarks stripped from the record.A Maybe to some people it does not matter, but to me it does, thus I walk away from POCA again. I have unsubscribed from all POCA forum notifications (not really missing much other than the same old impetuous vitriol), will let my membership lapse, will no longer support the POCA 911 Emergency Travel guide and map, and will not be present at the East Coast Fall event.A I gladly offer to host any of the wonderful SE Pantera brethren as they travel North through Florida on their way to the event and hope to participate and support chapter events as able.A I make the statement on THIS forum for one simple reason: A I am confident that such a declaration would be erased from the POCA forum along with any character assassination against me that would follow.A I really would like to have a record of fallout spew directed towards me before self-censorship of the POCA site occurs.A Notice: Any private responses sent to me on this or any other topic may be shared with this community regardless of any disclaimers on your email stating not to share it.A I beat you at your own game by declaring it first.A Somehow, I suspect that creating the current POCA toxic atmosphere was done intentionally. Motives could be: A - To drive away/discredit any opposition before a passive majority of its members subscribe to forum emails, then erase/replace it all the carnage with a narrative of how nobody volunteered to help, threw stones, and statements of good riddance? A A - To intimidate and silence opposing opinions turning them into disengaged A low-information minions who pay dues? A A - A belief that short attention spans will forget this? A A - In the name of progress because the masses are fools that have to be led? Of course, these are justA conspiracyA theories, but my gut and view of actions from the inside says the degree of truth to all of them ranges from a little to right on the money. Your gastric outcomes may vary. Regardless of the motives, such activity and hate speech must be sanctionedA by the POCA BOD, otherwise, it would have been stopped or at a minimum be publicly denounced. Not even once was it denounced nor has it diminished. I sincerely hope POCA survives this new public image it has created. I feel sorry for you Ed L. You seemed like a straight-up guy to me that was dealt a rotten situation until you requested that I not to use this email forum. If any BOD members are left standing if/when this ship sinks, you have only yourselves to blame for allowing one person to continue shooting vitriol speech when in hindsight you should have taken away his bullet points (not so subtle colloquialism intended).A Even if you somehow craft an apology or stop the hate speech, don't be surprised when it does not fool anybody without actions to back it up.A True colors have been shown and they are not pretty.A Sad, but true that none of this was even necessary if not for the actions of one replaceable spokesperson representing the entire organization and a board that was indifferent for reasons unknown to at least me. I once considered the current President my friend.A I have attended events with him, hosted him and his lovely wife Joanie while they were attending the Amelia Island Concourse, and he has hosted myself and my wife for the Hilton Head Concourse. At this stage in my life, I have no energy available to expend for any person or entity with his M.O., especially one that I pay dues to support.A Micheal, please erase my contact information from your phone, email, and address book.A I suspect we will never meet again. For everybody else, thank you all for being there for me and my car over these 8 long years of restoration.A Proactive thanks for the years to come and I welcome the opportunity to meet and help any of you if the opportunity ever arises. Rob DuMoulin Caretaker of 1488 _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Wow Rob. Maybe you would like to run for POCA President. You sound like a stand up guy. Please don't quit the club. Sandi Snyder In a message dated 6/29/2016 12:54:21 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, rob@dumoulins.net writes: I suspect that many of you will opt out of reading this declaration. I understand and I am fairly confident that the reason I wrote it matches your reason for not wanting to read it. If you do, thank you for reading. If you reply, please do so only after reading it to the end. I hope you will see that this is not about me, but about POCA. Months ago, I resigned to sit on the sidelines and ignore POCA carnage around me while I focused on my own family life and automotive challenges of getting 1488 put back together. Weeks ago a decision was reached to not renew my POCA membership after being back in POCA for only one shortt but long year. The bulk of this email was composed weeks back with the intent to publish it only on the POCA site to keep it "in the family". I resurrected it now and my reasons to post to this forum are presented below. The first time I left POCA, it was because I felt that the West Coast leadership did not share my interests because I lived on the opposite side of the country. In fact, I was told such opinions directly. With no active chapter, there was no compelling reason continue as the only POCA member within at least 200 miles and I let my membership expire. Not a big deal. I leave POCA this time because not because I am on the opposite side of the country, but I feel the leadership has ventured into the opposite side of my sense of civility. Sadly enough, I leave at a time when my car is now restored and I am in a position to participate more regionally events. I can live with that especially and promote Panteras on my own if I do not have to deal with the baggage. As I hinted, reasons for leaving POCA this time are not because of the direction the club was going, but rather the means taken to do it. Being in the IT world, I am certainly biased in supporting the web-if-ication of the club, but at the same time I sympathize with and support almost all of the stated opposition. Everybody is entitled to an opinion and observations over the years has taught me that only dysfunctional "Families" ignore, discount, or belittle other member's opinions. A case cannot be made that I am a "criticizer and not a contributor" to POCA's success. Prior to the current website launch, I read the entire web hosting manual (not a small document to say the least), offered to help, was micromanaged to the extreme, tried to quell resistance on the old email list towards the new site based on the knowledge I gained from the manual, all while the hate speech started to flow from the vocal portion of the POCA leadership. At that point I started to question the means being used but still wanted to help the community. I have contributed to the "Pantera Interior" forum on the site by adding instructions on headliner replacement / speaker bar install in the interest of advancing the site and helping members. Also, I envisioned, enhanced and maintained the interactive graphical US map for the 911 list to include all 50 states and bordering Canada instead of just Southeast chapter participants. I seek nor desire praise for any of it. In fact I try to stay as anonymous as I can because my plate is so full right now I can only commit to what i choose to make time for. I mention this only so nobody could say that I was not fully vested in the success of the 'New POCA' experience and wanted it to succeed. Anybody suggesting otherwise is not genuine or not knowledgeable. Accusations that more people are not just jumping on board to help a sinking ship while the captain is willfully firing holes in the hull is utterly insane and is in my opinion propaganda, denial of self blame, or downright delusional. Not only can I not in good conscious recruit anybody else to join POCA right now, I feel fortunate that my membership expires soon. The last straw that made me no longer willing to watch the berating, hate speach, and psychotic behavior was to have a record of it "magically erased" from the POCA forum. For this, I hold the entire BOD responsible. For those of you reading this that are not in the 'Free World' or have yet to view the POCA site forums regularly, you may accept rewriting of history as protocol from your dictator regimes or are unaware of what is happening. Though we may feel helpless to deal with similar behavior from our governments, do we really expect to deal with this abuse from a freak-in car club? Does it matter that the POCA forum history will only reflect harmony and birds singing in the springtime any time relevant questions/discussions not fitting a controlled narrative occur are responded to with such revolting and utter contempt? "Control the narrative, control the situation" is a common way to erase skeletons. Just ask the Clintons (sorry, I had to sneak that shot in), and some unmentioned entity which recently tried to intimidate this list from having their past inflammatory remarks stripped from the record. Maybe to some people it does not matter, but to me it does, thus I walk away from POCA again. I have unsubscribed from all POCA forum notifications (not really missing much other than the same old impetuous vitriol), will let my membership lapse, will no longer support the POCA 911 Emergency Travel guide and map, and will not be present at the East Coast Fall event. I gladly offer to host any of the wonderful SE Pantera brethren as they travel North through Florida on their way to the event and hope to participate and support chapter events as able. I make the statement on THIS forum for one simple reason: I am confident that such a declaration would be erased from the POCA forum along with any character assassination against me that would follow. I really would like to have a record of fallout spew directed towards me before self-censorship of the POCA site occurs. Notice: Any private responses sent to me on this or any other topic may be shared with this community regardless of any disclaimers on your email stating not to share it. I beat you at your own game by declaring it first. Somehow, I suspect that creating the current POCA toxic atmosphere was done intentionally. Motives could be: - To drive away/discredit any opposition before a passive majority of its members subscribe to forum emails, then erase/replace it all the carnage with a narrative of how nobody volunteered to help, threw stones, and statements of good riddance? - To intimidate and silence opposing opinions turning them into disengaged low-information minions who pay dues? - A belief that short attention spans will forget this? - In the name of progress because the masses are fools that have to be led? Of course, these are just conspiracy theories, but my gut and view of actions from the inside says the degree of truth to all of them ranges from a little to right on the money. Your gastric outcomes may vary. Regardless of the motives, such activity and hate speech must be sanctioned by the POCA BOD, otherwise, it would have been stopped or at a minimum be publicly denounced. Not even once was it denounced nor has it diminished. I sincerely hope POCA survives this new public image it has created. I feel sorry for you Ed L. You seemed like a straight-up guy to me that was dealt a rotten situation until you requested that I not to use this email forum. If any BOD members are left standing if/when this ship sinks, you have only yourselves to blame for allowing one person to continue shooting vitriol speech when in hindsight you should have taken away his bullet points (not so subtle colloquialism intended). Even if you somehow craft an apology or stop the hate speech, don't be surprised when it does not fool anybody without actions to back it up. True colors have been shown and they are not pretty. Sad, but true that none of this was even necessary if not for the actions of one replaceable spokesperson representing the entire organization and a board that was indifferent for reasons unknown to at least me. I once considered the current President my friend. I have attended events with him, hosted him and his lovely wife Joanie while they were attending the Amelia Island Concourse, and he has hosted myself and my wife for the Hilton Head Concourse. At this stage in my life, I have no energy available to expend for any person or entity with his M.O., especially one that I pay dues to support. Micheal, please erase my contact information from your phone, email, and address book. I suspect we will never meet again. For everybody else, thank you all for being there for me and my car over these 8 long years of restoration. Proactive thanks for the years to come and I welcome the opportunity to meet and help any of you if the opportunity ever arises. Rob DuMoulin Caretaker of 1488 I suspect that many of you will opt out of reading this declaration. I understand and I am fairly confident that the reason I wrote it matches your reason for not wanting to read it. If you do, thank you for reading. If you reply, please do so only after reading it to the end. I hope you will see that this is not about me, but about POCA.A Months ago, I resigned to sit on the sidelines and ignore POCA carnage around me while I focused on my own family life and automotive challenges of getting 1488 put back together.A Weeks ago a decision was reached to not renew my POCA membership after being back in POCA for only one shortt but long year. The bulk of this email was composed weeks back with the intent to publish it only on the POCA site to keep it "in the family".A I resurrected it now and my reasons to post to this forum are presented below.A The first time I left POCA, it was because I felt that the West Coast leadership did not share my interests because I lived on the opposite side of the country. In fact, I was told such opinions directly.A With no active chapter, there was no compelling reason continue as the only POCA member within at least 200 miles and I let my membership expire. Not a big deal.A I leave POCA this time because not because I am on the opposite side of the country, but I feel the leadership has ventured into the opposite side of my sense of civility. Sadly enough, I leave at a time when my car is now restored and I am in a position to participate more regionally events. I can live with that especially and promote Panteras on my own if I do not have to deal with the baggage. As I hinted, reasons for leaving POCA this time are not because of the direction the club was going, but rather the means taken to do it. Being in the IT world, I am certainly biased in supporting the web-if-ication of the club, but at the same time I sympathize with and support almost all of the stated opposition. Everybody is entitled to an opinion and observations over the years has taught me that only dysfunctional "Families" ignore, discount, or belittle other member's opinions.A A case cannot be made that I am a "criticizer and not a contributor" to POCA's success. Prior to the current website launch, I read the entire web hosting manual (not a small document to say the least), offered to help, was micromanaged to the extreme, tried to quell resistance on the old email list towards the new site based on the knowledge I gained from the manual, all while the hate speech started to flow from the vocal portion of the POCA leadership.A At that point I started to question the means being used but still wanted to help the community. I have contributed to the "Pantera Interior" forum on the site by adding instructions on headliner replacement / speaker bar install in the interest of advancing the site and helping members. Also, I envisioned, enhanced and maintained the interactive graphical US map for the 911 list to include all 50 states and bordering Canada instead of just Southeast chapter participants. I seek nor desire praise for any of it.A In fact I try to stay as anonymous as I can because my plate is so full right now I can only commit to what i choose to make time for.A I mention this only so nobody could say that I was not fully vested in the success of the 'New POCA' experience and wanted it to succeed.A Anybody suggesting otherwise is not genuine or not knowledgeable. Accusations that more people are not just jumping on board to help a sinking ship while the captain is willfully firing holes in the hull is utterly insane and is in my opinion propaganda, denial of self blame, or downright delusional. Not only can I not in good conscious recruit anybody else to join POCA right now, I feel fortunate that my membership expires soon. The last straw that made me no longer willing to watch the berating, hate speach, and psychotic behavior was to have a record of it "magically erased" from the POCA forum.A For this, I hold the entire BOD responsible. For those of you reading this that are not in the 'Free World' or have yet to view the POCA site forums regularly, you may accept rewriting of history as protocol from your dictator regimes or are unaware of what is happening.A Though we may feel helpless to deal with similar behavior from our governments, do we really expect to deal with this abuse from a freak-in car club?A Does it matter that the POCA forum history will only reflect harmony and birds singing in the springtime any time relevant questions/discussions not fitting a controlled narrative occur are responded to with such revolting and utter contempt? A "Control the narrative, control the situation" is a common way to erase skeletons. Just ask the Clintons (sorry, I had to sneak that shot in), and some unmentioned entity which recently tried to intimidate this list from having their past inflammatory remarks stripped from the record.A Maybe to some people it does not matter, but to me it does, thus I walk away from POCA again. I have unsubscribed from all POCA forum notifications (not really missing much other than the same old impetuous vitriol), will let my membership lapse, will no longer support the POCA 911 Emergency Travel guide and map, and will not be present at the East Coast Fall event.A I gladly offer to host any of the wonderful SE Pantera brethren as they travel North through Florida on their way to the event and hope to participate and support chapter events as able.A I make the statement on THIS forum for one simple reason: A I am confident that such a declaration would be erased from the POCA forum along with any character assassination against me that would follow.A I really would like to have a record of fallout spew directed towards me before self-censorship of the POCA site occurs.A Notice: Any private responses sent to me on this or any other topic may be shared with this community regardless of any disclaimers on your email stating not to share it.A I beat you at your own game by declaring it first.A Somehow, I suspect that creating the current POCA toxic atmosphere was done intentionally. Motives could be: A - To drive away/discredit any opposition before a passive majority of its members subscribe to forum emails, then erase/replace it all the carnage with a narrative of how nobody volunteered to help, threw stones, and statements of good riddance? A A - To intimidate and silence opposing opinions turning them into disengaged A low-information minions who pay dues? A A - A belief that short attention spans will forget this? A A - In the name of progress because the masses are fools that have to be led? Of course, these are justA conspiracyA theories, but my gut and view of actions from the inside says the degree of truth to all of them ranges from a little to right on the money. Your gastric outcomes may vary. Regardless of the motives, such activity and hate speech must be sanctionedA by the POCA BOD, otherwise, it would have been stopped or at a minimum be publicly denounced. Not even once was it denounced nor has it diminished. I sincerely hope POCA survives this new public image it has created. I feel sorry for you Ed L. You seemed like a straight-up guy to me that was dealt a rotten situation until you requested that I not to use this email forum. If any BOD members are left standing if/when this ship sinks, you have only yourselves to blame for allowing one person to continue shooting vitriol speech when in hindsight you should have taken away his bullet points (not so subtle colloquialism intended).A Even if you somehow craft an apology or stop the hate speech, don't be surprised when it does not fool anybody without actions to back it up.A True colors have been shown and they are not pretty.A Sad, but true that none of this was even necessary if not for the actions of one replaceable spokesperson representing the entire organization and a board that was indifferent for reasons unknown to at least me. I once considered the current President my friend.A I have attended events with him, hosted him and his lovely wife Joanie while they were attending the Amelia Island Concourse, and he has hosted myself and my wife for the Hilton Head Concourse. At this stage in my life, I have no energy available to expend for any person or entity with his M.O., especially one that I pay dues to support.A Micheal, please erase my contact information from your phone, email, and address book.A I suspect we will never meet again. For everybody else, thank you all for being there for me and my car over these 8 long years of restoration.A Proactive thanks for the years to come and I welcome the opportunity to meet and help any of you if the opportunity ever arises. Rob DuMoulin Caretaker of 1488 _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
Rob isn¹t quitting the club. He¹s quitting POCA. The club is the Pantera brotherhood. The rebirth of this list proves that the brotherhood is alive and well. POCA is temporarily on crack. It will get better, but it will take time. In the meantime, we should all treat POCA with respect, like you would treat a close friend that has fallen from the wagon. Will. On 6/30/16, 1:17 AM, "DeTomaso on behalf of RallyFanatic--- via DeTomaso" <detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com on behalf of detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
Wow Rob. Maybe you would like to run for POCA President. You sound like a stand up guy. Please don't quit the club.
Sandi Snyder
In a message dated 6/29/2016 12:54:21 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, rob@dumoulins.net writes:
I suspect that many of you will opt out of reading this declaration. I understand and I am fairly confident that the reason I wrote it matches your reason for not wanting to read it. If you do, thank you for reading. If you reply, please do so only after reading it to the end. I hope you will see that this is not about me, but about POCA. Months ago, I resigned to sit on the sidelines and ignore POCA carnage around me while I focused on my own family life and automotive challenges of getting 1488 put back together. Weeks ago a decision was reached to not renew my POCA membership after being back in POCA for only one shortt but long year. The bulk of this email was composed weeks back with the intent to publish it only on the POCA site to keep it "in the family". I resurrected it now and my reasons to post to this forum are presented below. The first time I left POCA, it was because I felt that the West Coast leadership did not share my interests because I lived on the opposite side of the country. In fact, I was told such opinions directly. With no active chapter, there was no compelling reason continue as the only POCA member within at least 200 miles and I let my membership expire. Not a big deal. I leave POCA this time because not because I am on the opposite side of the country, but I feel the leadership has ventured into the opposite side of my sense of civility. Sadly enough, I leave at a time when my car is now restored and I am in a position to participate more regionally events. I can live with that especially and promote Panteras on my own if I do not have to deal with the baggage. As I hinted, reasons for leaving POCA this time are not because of the direction the club was going, but rather the means taken to do it. Being in the IT world, I am certainly biased in supporting the web-if-ication of the club, but at the same time I sympathize with and support almost all of the stated opposition. Everybody is entitled to an opinion and observations over the years has taught me that only dysfunctional "Families" ignore, discount, or belittle other member's opinions. A case cannot be made that I am a "criticizer and not a contributor" to POCA's success. Prior to the current website launch, I read the entire web hosting manual (not a small document to say the least), offered to help, was micromanaged to the extreme, tried to quell resistance on the old email list towards the new site based on the knowledge I gained from the manual, all while the hate speech started to flow from the vocal portion of the POCA leadership. At that point I started to question the means being used but still wanted to help the community. I have contributed to the "Pantera Interior" forum on the site by adding instructions on headliner replacement / speaker bar install in the interest of advancing the site and helping members. Also, I envisioned, enhanced and maintained the interactive graphical US map for the 911 list to include all 50 states and bordering Canada instead of just Southeast chapter participants. I seek nor desire praise for any of it. In fact I try to stay as anonymous as I can because my plate is so full right now I can only commit to what i choose to make time for. I mention this only so nobody could say that I was not fully vested in the success of the 'New POCA' experience and wanted it to succeed. Anybody suggesting otherwise is not genuine or not knowledgeable. Accusations that more people are not just jumping on board to help a sinking ship while the captain is willfully firing holes in the hull is utterly insane and is in my opinion propaganda, denial of self blame, or downright delusional. Not only can I not in good conscious recruit anybody else to join POCA right now, I feel fortunate that my membership expires soon. The last straw that made me no longer willing to watch the berating, hate speach, and psychotic behavior was to have a record of it "magically erased" from the POCA forum. For this, I hold the entire BOD responsible. For those of you reading this that are not in the 'Free World' or have yet to view the POCA site forums regularly, you may accept rewriting of history as protocol from your dictator regimes or are unaware of what is happening. Though we may feel helpless to deal with similar behavior from our governments, do we really expect to deal with this abuse from a freak-in car club? Does it matter that the POCA forum history will only reflect harmony and birds singing in the springtime any time relevant questions/discussions not fitting a controlled narrative occur are responded to with such revolting and utter contempt? "Control the narrative, control the situation" is a common way to erase skeletons. Just ask the Clintons (sorry, I had to sneak that shot in), and some unmentioned entity which recently tried to intimidate this list from having their past inflammatory remarks stripped from the record. Maybe to some people it does not matter, but to me it does, thus I walk away from POCA again. I have unsubscribed from all POCA forum notifications (not really missing much other than the same old impetuous vitriol), will let my membership lapse, will no longer support the POCA 911 Emergency Travel guide and map, and will not be present at the East Coast Fall event. I gladly offer to host any of the wonderful SE Pantera brethren as they travel North through Florida on their way to the event and hope to participate and support chapter events as able. I make the statement on THIS forum for one simple reason: I am confident that such a declaration would be erased from the POCA forum along with any character assassination against me that would follow. I really would like to have a record of fallout spew directed towards me before self-censorship of the POCA site occurs. Notice: Any private responses sent to me on this or any other topic may be shared with this community regardless of any disclaimers on your email stating not to share it. I beat you at your own game by declaring it first. Somehow, I suspect that creating the current POCA toxic atmosphere was done intentionally. Motives could be: - To drive away/discredit any opposition before a passive majority of its members subscribe to forum emails, then erase/replace it all the carnage with a narrative of how nobody volunteered to help, threw stones, and statements of good riddance? - To intimidate and silence opposing opinions turning them into disengaged low-information minions who pay dues? - A belief that short attention spans will forget this? - In the name of progress because the masses are fools that have to be led? Of course, these are just conspiracy theories, but my gut and view of actions from the inside says the degree of truth to all of them ranges from a little to right on the money. Your gastric outcomes may vary. Regardless of the motives, such activity and hate speech must be sanctioned by the POCA BOD, otherwise, it would have been stopped or at a minimum be publicly denounced. Not even once was it denounced nor has it diminished. I sincerely hope POCA survives this new public image it has created. I feel sorry for you Ed L. You seemed like a straight-up guy to me that was dealt a rotten situation until you requested that I not to use this email forum. If any BOD members are left standing if/when this ship sinks, you have only yourselves to blame for allowing one person to continue shooting vitriol speech when in hindsight you should have taken away his bullet points (not so subtle colloquialism intended). Even if you somehow craft an apology or stop the hate speech, don't be surprised when it does not fool anybody without actions to back it up. True colors have been shown and they are not pretty. Sad, but true that none of this was even necessary if not for the actions of one replaceable spokesperson representing the entire organization and a board that was indifferent for reasons unknown to at least me. I once considered the current President my friend. I have attended events with him, hosted him and his lovely wife Joanie while they were attending the Amelia Island Concourse, and he has hosted myself and my wife for the Hilton Head Concourse. At this stage in my life, I have no energy available to expend for any person or entity with his M.O., especially one that I pay dues to support. Micheal, please erase my contact information from your phone, email, and address book. I suspect we will never meet again. For everybody else, thank you all for being there for me and my car over these 8 long years of restoration. Proactive thanks for the years to come and I welcome the opportunity to meet and help any of you if the opportunity ever arises. Rob DuMoulin Caretaker of 1488 I suspect that many of you will opt out of reading this declaration. I understand and I am fairly confident that the reason I wrote it matches your reason for not wanting to read it. If you do, thank you for reading. If you reply, please do so only after reading it to the end. I hope you will see that this is not about me, but about POCA.A Months ago, I resigned to sit on the sidelines and ignore POCA carnage around me while I focused on my own family life and automotive challenges of getting 1488 put back together.A Weeks ago a decision was reached to not renew my POCA membership after being back in POCA for only one shortt but long year. The bulk of this email was composed weeks back with the intent to publish it only on the POCA site to keep it "in the family".A I resurrected it now and my reasons to post to this forum are presented below.A The first time I left POCA, it was because I felt that the West Coast leadership did not share my interests because I lived on the opposite side of the country. In fact, I was told such opinions directly.A With no active chapter, there was no compelling reason continue as the only POCA member within at least 200 miles and I let my membership expire. Not a big deal.A I leave POCA this time because not because I am on the opposite side of the country, but I feel the leadership has ventured into the opposite side of my sense of civility. Sadly enough, I leave at a time when my car is now restored and I am in a position to participate more regionally events. I can live with that especially and promote Panteras on my own if I do not have to deal with the baggage. As I hinted, reasons for leaving POCA this time are not because of the direction the club was going, but rather the means taken to do it. Being in the IT world, I am certainly biased in supporting the web-if-ication of the club, but at the same time I sympathize with and support almost all of the stated opposition. Everybody is entitled to an opinion and observations over the years has taught me that only dysfunctional "Families" ignore, discount, or belittle other member's opinions.A A case cannot be made that I am a "criticizer and not a contributor" to POCA's success. Prior to the current website launch, I read the entire web hosting manual (not a small document to say the least), offered to help, was micromanaged to the extreme, tried to quell resistance on the old email list towards the new site based on the knowledge I gained from the manual, all while the hate speech started to flow from the vocal portion of the POCA leadership.A At that point I started to question the means being used but still wanted to help the community. I have contributed to the "Pantera Interior" forum on the site by adding instructions on headliner replacement / speaker bar install in the interest of advancing the site and helping members. Also, I envisioned, enhanced and maintained the interactive graphical US map for the 911 list to include all 50 states and bordering Canada instead of just Southeast chapter participants. I seek nor desire praise for any of it.A In fact I try to stay as anonymous as I can because my plate is so full right now I can only commit to what i choose to make time for.A I mention this only so nobody could say that I was not fully vested in the success of the 'New POCA' experience and wanted it to succeed.A Anybody suggesting otherwise is not genuine or not knowledgeable. Accusations that more people are not just jumping on board to help a sinking ship while the captain is willfully firing holes in the hull is utterly insane and is in my opinion propaganda, denial of self blame, or downright delusional. Not only can I not in good conscious recruit anybody else to join POCA right now, I feel fortunate that my membership expires soon. The last straw that made me no longer willing to watch the berating, hate speach, and psychotic behavior was to have a record of it "magically erased" from the POCA forum.A For this, I hold the entire BOD responsible. For those of you reading this that are not in the 'Free World' or have yet to view the POCA site forums regularly, you may accept rewriting of history as protocol from your dictator regimes or are unaware of what is happening.A Though we may feel helpless to deal with similar behavior from our governments, do we really expect to deal with this abuse from a freak-in car club?A Does it matter that the POCA forum history will only reflect harmony and birds singing in the springtime any time relevant questions/discussions not fitting a controlled narrative occur are responded to with such revolting and utter contempt? A "Control the narrative, control the situation" is a common way to erase skeletons. Just ask the Clintons (sorry, I had to sneak that shot in), and some unmentioned entity which recently tried to intimidate this list from having their past inflammatory remarks stripped from the record.A Maybe to some people it does not matter, but to me it does, thus I walk away from POCA again. I have unsubscribed from all POCA forum notifications (not really missing much other than the same old impetuous vitriol), will let my membership lapse, will no longer support the POCA 911 Emergency Travel guide and map, and will not be present at the East Coast Fall event.A I gladly offer to host any of the wonderful SE Pantera brethren as they travel North through Florida on their way to the event and hope to participate and support chapter events as able.A I make the statement on THIS forum for one simple reason: A I am confident that such a declaration would be erased from the POCA forum along with any character assassination against me that would follow.A I really would like to have a record of fallout spew directed towards me before self-censorship of the POCA site occurs.A Notice: Any private responses sent to me on this or any other topic may be shared with this community regardless of any disclaimers on your email stating not to share it.A I beat you at your own game by declaring it first.A Somehow, I suspect that creating the current POCA toxic atmosphere was done intentionally. Motives could be: A - To drive away/discredit any opposition before a passive majority of its members subscribe to forum emails, then erase/replace it all the carnage with a narrative of how nobody volunteered to help, threw stones, and statements of good riddance? A A - To intimidate and silence opposing opinions turning them into disengaged A low-information minions who pay dues? A A - A belief that short attention spans will forget this? A A - In the name of progress because the masses are fools that have to be led? Of course, these are justA conspiracyA theories, but my gut and view of actions from the inside says the degree of truth to all of them ranges from a little to right on the money. Your gastric outcomes may vary. Regardless of the motives, such activity and hate speech must be sanctionedA by the POCA BOD, otherwise, it would have been stopped or at a minimum be publicly denounced. Not even once was it denounced nor has it diminished. I sincerely hope POCA survives this new public image it has created. I feel sorry for you Ed L. You seemed like a straight-up guy to me that was dealt a rotten situation until you requested that I not to use this email forum. If any BOD members are left standing if/when this ship sinks, you have only yourselves to blame for allowing one person to continue shooting vitriol speech when in hindsight you should have taken away his bullet points (not so subtle colloquialism intended).A Even if you somehow craft an apology or stop the hate speech, don't be surprised when it does not fool anybody without actions to back it up.A True colors have been shown and they are not pretty.A Sad, but true that none of this was even necessary if not for the actions of one replaceable spokesperson representing the entire organization and a board that was indifferent for reasons unknown to at least me. I once considered the current President my friend.A I have attended events with him, hosted him and his lovely wife Joanie while they were attending the Amelia Island Concourse, and he has hosted myself and my wife for the Hilton Head Concourse. At this stage in my life, I have no energy available to expend for any person or entity with his M.O., especially one that I pay dues to support.A Micheal, please erase my contact information from your phone, email, and address book.A I suspect we will never meet again. For everybody else, thank you all for being there for me and my car over these 8 long years of restoration.A Proactive thanks for the years to come and I welcome the opportunity to meet and help any of you if the opportunity ever arises. Rob DuMoulin Caretaker of 1488 _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
Well stated Will , Rob is one of my new heroes . A shining example of integrity , conviction , and thoughtfulness . I hope someday to shake his hand . - Jim Coyne
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2016 23:08:14 -0400 From: will.kooiman@gmail.com To: RallyFanatic@aol.com; rob@dumoulins.net; DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Quitting POCA for personal reasons
Rob isn¹t quitting the club. He¹s quitting POCA.
The club is the Pantera brotherhood. The rebirth of this list proves that the brotherhood is alive and well.
POCA is temporarily on crack. It will get better, but it will take time.
In the meantime, we should all treat POCA with respect, like you would treat a close friend that has fallen from the wagon.
Will.
On 6/30/16, 1:17 AM, "DeTomaso on behalf of RallyFanatic--- via DeTomaso" <detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com on behalf of detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
Wow Rob. Maybe you would like to run for POCA President. You sound like a stand up guy. Please don't quit the club.
Sandi Snyder
In a message dated 6/29/2016 12:54:21 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, rob@dumoulins.net writes:
I suspect that many of you will opt out of reading this declaration. I understand and I am fairly confident that the reason I wrote it matches your reason for not wanting to read it. If you do, thank you for reading. If you reply, please do so only after reading it to the end. I hope you will see that this is not about me, but about POCA. Months ago, I resigned to sit on the sidelines and ignore POCA carnage around me while I focused on my own family life and automotive challenges of getting 1488 put back together. Weeks ago a decision was reached to not renew my POCA membership after being back in POCA for only one shortt but long year. The bulk of this email was composed weeks back with the intent to publish it only on the POCA site to keep it "in the family". I resurrected it now and my reasons to post to this forum are presented below. The first time I left POCA, it was because I felt that the West Coast leadership did not share my interests because I lived on the opposite side of the country. In fact, I was told such opinions directly. With no active chapter, there was no compelling reason continue as the only POCA member within at least 200 miles and I let my membership expire. Not a big deal. I leave POCA this time because not because I am on the opposite side of the country, but I feel the leadership has ventured into the opposite side of my sense of civility. Sadly enough, I leave at a time when my car is now restored and I am in a position to participate more regionally events. I can live with that especially and promote Panteras on my own if I do not have to deal with the baggage. As I hinted, reasons for leaving POCA this time are not because of the direction the club was going, but rather the means taken to do it. Being in the IT world, I am certainly biased in supporting the web-if-ication of the club, but at the same time I sympathize with and support almost all of the stated opposition. Everybody is entitled to an opinion and observations over the years has taught me that only dysfunctional "Families" ignore, discount, or belittle other member's opinions. A case cannot be made that I am a "criticizer and not a contributor" to POCA's success. Prior to the current website launch, I read the entire web hosting manual (not a small document to say the least), offered to help, was micromanaged to the extreme, tried to quell resistance on the old email list towards the new site based on the knowledge I gained from the manual, all while the hate speech started to flow from the vocal portion of the POCA leadership. At that point I started to question the means being used but still wanted to help the community. I have contributed to the "Pantera Interior" forum on the site by adding instructions on headliner replacement / speaker bar install in the interest of advancing the site and helping members. Also, I envisioned, enhanced and maintained the interactive graphical US map for the 911 list to include all 50 states and bordering Canada instead of just Southeast chapter participants. I seek nor desire praise for any of it. In fact I try to stay as anonymous as I can because my plate is so full right now I can only commit to what i choose to make time for. I mention this only so nobody could say that I was not fully vested in the success of the 'New POCA' experience and wanted it to succeed. Anybody suggesting otherwise is not genuine or not knowledgeable. Accusations that more people are not just jumping on board to help a sinking ship while the captain is willfully firing holes in the hull is utterly insane and is in my opinion propaganda, denial of self blame, or downright delusional. Not only can I not in good conscious recruit anybody else to join POCA right now, I feel fortunate that my membership expires soon. The last straw that made me no longer willing to watch the berating, hate speach, and psychotic behavior was to have a record of it "magically erased" from the POCA forum. For this, I hold the entire BOD responsible. For those of you reading this that are not in the 'Free World' or have yet to view the POCA site forums regularly, you may accept rewriting of history as protocol from your dictator regimes or are unaware of what is happening. Though we may feel helpless to deal with similar behavior from our governments, do we really expect to deal with this abuse from a freak-in car club? Does it matter that the POCA forum history willcabinet only reflect harmony and birds singing in the springtime any time relevant questions/discussions not fitting a controlled narrative occur are responded to with such revolting and utter contempt? "Control the narrative, control the situation" is a common way to erase skeletons. Just ask the Clintons (sorry, I had to sneak that shot in), and some unmentioned entity which recently tried to intimidate this list from having their past inflammatory remarks stripped from the record. Maybe to some people it does not matter, but to me it does, thus I walk away from POCA again. I have unsubscribed from all POCA forum notifications (not really missing much other than the same old impetuous vitriol), will let my membership lapse, will no longer support the POCA 911 Emergency Travel guide and map, and will not be present at the East Coast Fall event. I gladly offer to host any of the wonderful SE Pantera brethren as they travel North through Florida on their way to the event and hope to participate and support chapter events as able. I make the statement on THIS forum for one simple reason: I am confident that such a declaration would be erased from the POCA forum along with any character assassination against me that would follow. I really would like to have a record of fallout spew directed towards me before self-censorship of the POCA site occurs. Notice: Any private responses sent to me on this or any other topic may be shared with this community regardless of any disclaimers on your email stating not to share it. I beat you at your own game by declaring it first. Somehow, I suspect that creating the current POCA toxic atmosphere was done intentionally. Motives could be: - To drive away/discredit any opposition before a passive majority of its members subscribe to forum emails, then erase/replace it all the carnage with a narrative of how nobody volunteered to help, threw stones, and statements of good riddance? - To intimidate and silence opposing opinions turning them into disengaged low-information minions who pay dues? - A belief that short attention spans will forget this? - In the name of progress because the masses are fools that have to be led? Of course, these are just conspiracy theories, but my gut and view of actions from the inside says the degree of truth to all of them ranges from a little to right on the money. Your gastric outcomes may vary. Regardless of the motives, such activity and hate speech must be sanctioned by the POCA BOD, otherwise, it would have been stopped or at a minimum be publicly denounced. Not even once was it denounced nor has it diminished. I sincerely hope POCA survives this new public image it has created. I feel sorry for you Ed L. You seemed like a straight-up guy to me that was dealt a rotten situation until you requested that I not to use this email forum. If any BOD members are left standing if/when this ship sinks, you have only yourselves to blame for allowing one person to continue shooting vitriol speech when in hindsight you should have taken away his bullet points (not so subtle colloquialism intended). Even if you somehow craft an apology or stop the hate speech, don't be surprised when it does not fool anybody without actions to back it up. True colors have been shown and they are not pretty. Sad, but true that none of this was even necessary if not for the actions of one replaceable spokesperson representing the entire organization and a board that was indifferent for reasons unknown to at least me. I once considered the current President my friend. I have attended events with him, hosted him and his lovely wife Joanie while they were attending the Amelia Island Concourse, and he has hosted myself and my wife for the Hilton Head Concourse. At this stage in my life, I have no energy available to expend for any person or entity with his M.O., especially one that I pay dues to support. Micheal, please erase my contact information from your phone, email, and address book. I suspect we will never meet again. For everybody else, thank you all for being there for me and my car over these 8 long years of restoration. Proactive thanks for the years to come and I welcome the opportunity to meet and help any of you if the opportunity ever arises. Rob DuMoulin Caretaker of 1488 I suspect that many of you will opt out of reading this declaration. I understand and I am fairly confident that the reason I wrote it matches your reason for not wanting to read it. If you do, thank you for reading. If you reply, please do so only after reading it to the end. I hope you will see that this is not about me, but about POCA.A Months ago, I resigned to sit on the sidelines and ignore POCA carnage around me while I focused on my own family life and automotive challenges of getting 1488 put back together.A Weeks ago a decision was reached to not renew my POCA membership after being back in POCA for only one shortt but long year. The bulk of this email was composed weeks back with the intent to publish it only on the POCA site to keep it "in the family".A I resurrected it now and my reasons to post to this forum are presented below.A The first time I left POCA, it was because I felt that the West Coast leadership did not share my interests because I lived on the opposite side of the country. In fact, I was told such opinions directly.A With no active chapter, there was no compelling reason continue as the only POCA member within at least 200 miles and I let my membership expire. Not a big deal.A I leave POCA this time because not because I am on the opposite side of the country, but I feel the leadership has ventured into the opposite side of my sense of civility. Sadly enough, I leave at a time when my car is now restored and I am in a position to participate more regionally events. I can live with that especially and promote Panteras on my own if I do not have to deal with the baggage. As I hinted, reasons for leaving POCA this time are not because of the direction the club was going, but rather the means taken to do it. Being in the IT world, I am certainly biased in supporting the web-if-ication of the club, but at the same time I sympathize with and support almost all of the stated opposition. Everybody is entitled to an opinion and observations over the years has taught me that only dysfunctional "Families" ignore, discount, or belittle other member's opinions.A A case cannot be made that I am a "criticizer and not a contributor" to POCA's success. Prior to the current website launch, I read the entire web hosting manual (not a small document to say the least), offered to help, was micromanaged to the extreme, tried to quell resistance on the old email list towards the new site based on the knowledge I gained from the manual, all while the hate speech started to flow from the vocal portion of the POCA leadership.A At that point I started to question the means being used but still wanted to help the community. I have contributed to the "Pantera Interior" forum on the site by adding instructions on headliner replacement / speaker bar install in the interest of advancing the site and helping members. Also, I envisioned, enhanced and maintained the interactive graphical US map for the 911 list to include all 50 states and bordering Canada instead of just Southeast chapter participants. I seek nor desire praise for any of it.A In fact I try to stay as anonymous as I can because my plate is so full right now I can only commit to what i choose to make time for.A I mention this only so nobody could say that I was not fully vested in the success of the 'New POCA' experience and wanted it to succeed.A Anybody suggesting otherwise is not genuine or not knowledgeable. Accusations that more people are not just jumping on board to help a sinking ship while the captain is willfully firing holes in the hull is utterly insane and is in my opinion propaganda, denial of self blame, or downright delusional. Not only can I not in good conscious recruit anybody else to join POCA right now, I feel fortunate that my membership expires soon. The last straw that made me no longer willing to watch the berating, hate speach, and psychotic behavior was to have a record of it "magically erased" from the POCA forum.A For this, I hold the entire BOD responsible. For those of you reading this that are not in the 'Free World' or have yet to view the POCA site forums regularly, you may accept rewriting of history as protocol from your dictator regimes or are unaware of what is happening.A Though we may feel helpless to deal with similar behavior from our governments, do we really expect to deal with this abuse from a freak-in car club?A Does it matter that the POCA forum history will only reflect harmony and birds singing in the springtime any time relevant questions/discussions not fitting a controlled narrative occur are responded to with such revolting and utter contempt? A "Control the narrative, control the situation" is a common way to erase skeletons. Just ask the Clintons (sorry, I had to sneak that shot in), and some unmentioned entity which recently tried to intimidate this list from having their past inflammatory remarks stripped from the record.A Maybe to some people it does not matter, but to me it does, thus I walk away from POCA again. I have unsubscribed from all POCA forum notifications (not really missing much other than the same old impetuous vitriol), will let my membership lapse, will no longer support the POCA 911 Emergency Travel guide and map, and will not be present at the East Coast Fall event.A I gladly offer to host any of the wonderful SE Pantera brethren as they travel North through Florida on their way to the event and hope to participate and support chapter events as able.A I make the statement on THIS forum for one simple reason: A I am confident that such a declaration would be erased from the POCA forum along with any character assassination against me that would follow.A I really would like to have a record of fallout spew directed towards me before self-censorship of the POCA site occurs.A Notice: Any private responses sent to me on this or any other topic may be shared with this community regardless of any disclaimers on your email stating not to share it.A I beat you at your own game by declaring it first.A Somehow, I suspect that creating the current POCA toxic atmosphere was done intentionally. Motives could be: A - To drive away/discredit any opposition before a passive majority of its members subscribe to forum emails, then erase/replace it all the carnage with a narrative of how nobody volunteered to help, threw stones, and statements of good riddance? A A - To intimidate and silence opposing opinions turning them into disengaged A low-information minions who pay dues? A A - A belief that short attention spans will forget this? A A - In the name of progress because the masses are fools that have to be led? Of course, these are justA conspiracyA theories, but my gut and view of actions from the inside says the degree of truth to all of them ranges from a little to right on the money. Your gastric outcomes may vary. Regardless of the motives, such activity and hate speech must be sanctionedA by the POCA BOD, otherwise, it would have been stopped or at a minimum be publicly denounced. Not even once was it denounced nor has it diminished. I sincerely hope POCA survives this new public image it has created. I feel sorry for you Ed L. You seemed like a straight-up guy to me that was dealt a rotten situation until you requested that I not to use this email forum. If any BOD members are left standing if/when this ship sinks, you have only yourselves to blame for allowing one person to continue shooting vitriol speech when in hindsight you should have taken away his bullet points (not so subtle colloquialism intended).A Even if you somehow craft an apology or stop the hate speech, don't be surprised when it does not fool anybody without actions to back it up.A True colors have been shown and they are not pretty.A Sad, but true that none of this was even necessary if not for the actions of one replaceable spokesperson representing the entire organization and a board that was indifferent for reasons unknown to at least me. I once considered the current President my friend.A I have attended events with him, hosted him and his lovely wife Joanie while they were attending the Amelia Island Concourse, and he has hosted myself and my wife for the Hilton Head Concourse. At this stage in my life, I have no energy available to expend for any person or entity with his M.O., especially one that I pay dues to support.A Micheal, please erase my contact information from your phone, email, and address book.A I suspect we will never meet again. For everybody else, thank you all for being there for me and my car over these 8 long years of restoration.A Proactive thanks for the years to come and I welcome the opportunity to meet and help any of you if the opportunity ever arises. Rob DuMoulin Caretaker of 1488 _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2016 23:08:14 -0400 From: will.kooiman@gmail.com To: RallyFanatic@aol.com; rob@dumoulins.net; DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Quitting POCA for personal reasons
Rob isn^1t quitting the club. He^1s quitting POCA.
The club is the Pantera brotherhood. The rebirth of this list proves
the brotherhood is alive and well.
POCA is temporarily on crack. It will get better, but it will take time.
In the meantime, we should all treat POCA with respect, like you would treat a close friend that has fallen from the wagon.
Will.
On 6/30/16, 1:17 AM, "DeTomaso on behalf of RallyFanatic--- via DeTomaso" <detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com on behalf of detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
Wow Rob. Maybe you would like to run for POCA President. You sound like a stand up guy. Please don't quit the club.
Sandi Snyder
In a message dated 6/29/2016 12:54:21 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, rob@dumoulins.net writes:
I suspect that many of you will opt out of reading this declaration. I understand and I am fairly confident that the reason I wrote it matches your reason for not wanting to read it. If you do, thank you for reading. If you reply, please do so only after reading it to the end. I hope you will see that this is not about me, but about POCA. Months ago, I resigned to sit on the sidelines and ignore POCA carnage around me while I focused on my own family life and automotive challenges of getting 1488 put back together. Weeks ago a decision was reached to not renew my POCA membership after being back in POCA for only one shortt but long year. The bulk of this email was composed weeks back with the intent to publish it only on the POCA site to keep it "in the family". I resurrected it now and my reasons to post to this forum are presented below. The first time I left POCA, it was because I felt that the West Coast leadership did not share my interests because I lived on the opposite side of the country. In fact, I was told such opinions directly. With no active chapter, there was no compelling reason continue as the only POCA member within at least 200 miles and I let my membership expire. Not a big deal. I leave POCA this time because not because I am on the opposite side of the country, but I feel the leadership has ventured into the opposite side of my sense of civility. Sadly enough, I leave at a time when my car is now restored and I am in a position to participate more regionally events. I can live with that especially and promote Panteras on my own if I do not have to deal with the baggage. As I hinted, reasons for leaving POCA this time are not because of the direction the club was going, but rather the means taken to do it. Being in the IT world, I am certainly biased in supporting the web-if-ication of the club, but at the same time I sympathize with and support almost all of the stated opposition. Everybody is entitled to an opinion and observations over the years has taught me that only dysfunctional "Families" ignore, discount, or belittle other member's opinions. A case cannot be made that I am a "criticizer and not a contributor" to POCA's success. Prior to the current website launch, I read the entire web hosting manual (not a small document to say the least), offered to help, was micromanaged to
extreme, tried to quell resistance on the old email list towards
new site based on the knowledge I gained from the manual, all while the hate speech started to flow from the vocal portion of the POCA leadership. At that point I started to question the means being used but still wanted to help the community. I have contributed to the "Pantera Interior" forum on the site by adding instructions on headliner replacement / speaker bar install in the interest of advancing the site and helping members. Also, I envisioned, enhanced and maintained the interactive graphical US map for the 911 list to include all 50 states and bordering Canada instead of just Southeast chapter participants. I seek nor desire praise for any of it. In fact I try to stay as anonymous as I can because my plate is so full right now I can only commit to what i choose to make time for. I mention this only so nobody could say that I was not fully vested in the success of the 'New POCA' experience and wanted it to succeed. Anybody suggesting otherwise is not genuine or not knowledgeable. Accusations that more people are not just jumping on board to help a sinking ship while the captain is willfully firing holes in the hull is utterly insane and is in my opinion propaganda, denial of self blame, or downright delusional. Not only can I not in good conscious recruit anybody else to join POCA right now, I feel fortunate that my membership expires soon. The last straw that made me no longer willing to watch the berating, hate speach, and psychotic behavior was to have a record of it "magically erased" from the POCA forum. For this, I hold the entire BOD responsible. For those of you reading this that are not in the 'Free World' or have yet to view the POCA site forums regularly, you may accept rewriting of history as protocol from your dictator regimes or are unaware of what is happening. Though we may feel helpless to deal with similar behavior from our governments, do we really expect to deal with this abuse from a freak-in car club? Does it matter that the POCA forum history willcabinet only reflect harmony and birds singing in the springtime any time relevant questions/discussions not fitting a controlled narrative occur are responded to with such revolting and utter contempt? "Control the narrative, control the situation" is a common way to erase skeletons. Just ask the Clintons (sorry, I had to sneak that shot in), and some unmentioned entity which recently tried to intimidate this list from having their past inflammatory remarks stripped from the record. Maybe to some people it does not matter, but to me it does, thus I walk away from POCA again. I have unsubscribed from all POCA forum notifications (not really missing much other than the same old impetuous vitriol), will let my membership lapse, will no longer support the POCA 911 Emergency Travel guide and map, and will not be present at the East Coast Fall event. I gladly offer to host any of the wonderful SE Pantera brethren as they travel North through Florida on their way to the event and hope to participate and support chapter events as able. I make the statement on THIS forum for one simple reason: I am confident that such a declaration would be erased from the POCA forum along with any character assassination against me that would follow. I really would like to have a record of fallout spew directed towards me before self-censorship of the POCA site occurs. Notice: Any private responses sent to me on this or any other topic may be shared with this community regardless of any disclaimers on your email stating not to share it. I beat you at your own game by declaring it first. Somehow, I suspect that creating the current POCA toxic atmosphere was done intentionally. Motives could be: - To drive away/discredit any opposition before a passive majority of its members subscribe to forum emails, then erase/replace it all the carnage with a narrative of how nobody volunteered to help, threw stones, and statements of good riddance? - To intimidate and silence opposing opinions turning them into disengaged low-information minions who pay dues? - A belief that short attention spans will forget this? - In the name of progress because the masses are fools that have to be led? Of course, these are just conspiracy theories, but my gut and view of actions from the inside says the degree of truth to all of them ranges from a little to right on the money. Your gastric outcomes may vary. Regardless of the motives, such activity and hate speech must be sanctioned by the POCA BOD, otherwise, it would have been stopped or at a minimum be publicly denounced. Not even once was it denounced nor has it diminished. I sincerely hope POCA survives this new public image it has created. I feel sorry for you Ed L. You seemed like a straight-up guy to me that was dealt a rotten situation until you requested that I not to use this email forum. If any BOD members are left standing if/when this ship sinks, you have only yourselves to blame for allowing one person to continue shooting vitriol speech when in hindsight you should have taken away his bullet points (not so subtle colloquialism intended). Even if you somehow craft an apology or stop the hate speech, don't be surprised when it does not fool anybody without actions to back it up. True colors have been shown and they are not pretty. Sad, but true that none of this was even necessary if not for the actions of one replaceable spokesperson representing the entire organization and a board that was indifferent for reasons unknown to at least me. I once considered the current President my friend. I have attended events with him, hosted him and his lovely wife Joanie while they were attending the Amelia Island Concourse, and he has hosted myself and my wife for the Hilton Head Concourse. At this stage in my life, I have no energy available to expend for any person or entity with his M.O., especially one that I pay dues to support. Micheal, please erase my contact information from your phone, email, and address book. I suspect we will never meet again. For everybody else, thank you all for being there for me and my car over these 8 long years of restoration. Proactive thanks for the years to come and I welcome the opportunity to meet and help any of you if the opportunity ever arises. Rob DuMoulin Caretaker of 1488 I suspect that many of you will opt out of reading this declaration. I understand and I am fairly confident that the reason I wrote it matches your reason for not wanting to read it. If you do, thank you for reading. If you reply, please do so only after reading it to the end. I hope you will see that this is not about me, but about POCA.A Months ago, I resigned to sit on the sidelines and ignore POCA carnage around me while I focused on my own family life and automotive challenges of getting 1488 put back together.A Weeks ago a decision was reached to not renew my POCA membership after being back in POCA for only one shortt but long year. The bulk of this email was composed weeks back with the intent to publish it only on the POCA site to keep it "in the family".A I resurrected it now and my reasons to post to this forum are presented below.A The first time I left POCA, it was because I felt that the West Coast leadership did not share my interests because I lived on the opposite side of the country. In fact, I was told such opinions directly.A With no active chapter, there was no compelling reason continue as the only POCA member within at least 200 miles and I let my membership expire. Not a big deal.A I leave POCA this time because not because I am on the opposite side of the country, but I feel the leadership has ventured into the opposite side of my sense of civility. Sadly enough, I leave at a time when my car is now restored and I am in a position to participate more regionally events. I can live with that especially and promote Panteras on my own if I do not have to deal with the baggage. As I hinted, reasons for leaving POCA this time are not because of the direction the club was going, but rather the means taken to do it. Being in the IT world, I am certainly biased in supporting the web-if-ication of the club, but at the same time I sympathize with and support almost all of the stated opposition. Everybody is entitled to an opinion and observations over the years has taught me that only dysfunctional "Families" ignore, discount, or belittle other member's opinions.A A case cannot be made that I am a "criticizer and not a contributor" to POCA's success. Prior to the current website launch, I read the entire web hosting manual (not a small document to say the least), offered to help, was micromanaged to the extreme, tried to quell resistance on the old email list towards the new site based on the knowledge I gained from the manual, all while the hate speech started to flow from the vocal portion of the POCA leadership.A At that point I started to question the means being used but still wanted to help the community. I have contributed to the "Pantera Interior" forum on the site by adding instructions on headliner replacement / speaker bar install in the interest of advancing the site and helping members. Also, I envisioned, enhanced and maintained the interactive graphical US map for the 911 list to include all 50 states and bordering Canada instead of just Southeast chapter participants. I seek nor desire praise for any of it.A In fact I try to stay as anonymous as I can because my plate is so full right now I can only commit to what i choose to make time for.A I mention this only so nobody could say that I was not fully vested in the success of the 'New POCA' experience and wanted it to succeed.A Anybody suggesting otherwise is not genuine or not knowledgeable. Accusations that more people are not just jumping on board to help a sinking ship while the captain is willfully firing holes in the hull is utterly insane and is in my opinion propaganda, denial of self blame, or downright delusional. Not only can I not in good conscious recruit anybody else to join POCA right now, I feel fortunate that my membership expires soon. The last straw that made me no longer willing to watch the berating, hate speach, and psychotic behavior was to have a record of it "magically erased" from the POCA forum.A For this, I hold the entire BOD responsible. For those of you reading this that are not in the 'Free World' or have yet to view the POCA site forums regularly, you may accept rewriting of history as protocol from your dictator regimes or are unaware of what is happening.A Though we may feel helpless to deal with similar behavior from our governments, do we really expect to deal with this abuse from a freak-in car club?A Does it matter that the POCA forum history will only reflect harmony and birds singing in the springtime any time relevant questions/discussions not fitting a controlled narrative occur are responded to with such revolting and utter contempt? A "Control the narrative, control the situation" is a common way to erase skeletons. Just ask the Clintons (sorry, I had to sneak that shot in), and some unmentioned entity which recently tried to intimidate this list from having their past inflammatory remarks stripped from the record.A Maybe to some people it does not matter, but to me it does, thus I walk away from POCA again. I have unsubscribed from all POCA forum notifications (not really missing much other than the same old impetuous vitriol), will let my membership lapse, will no longer support the POCA 911 Emergency Travel guide and map, and will not be present at the East Coast Fall event.A I gladly offer to host any of the wonderful SE Pantera brethren as they travel North through Florida on their way to the event and hope to participate and support chapter events as able.A I make the statement on THIS forum for one simple reason: A I am confident that such a declaration would be erased from the POCA forum along with any character assassination against me that would follow.A I really would like to have a record of fallout spew directed towards me before self-censorship of the POCA site occurs.A Notice: Any private responses sent to me on this or any other topic may be shared with this community regardless of any disclaimers on your email stating not to share it.A I beat you at your own game by declaring it first.A Somehow, I suspect that creating the current POCA toxic atmosphere was done intentionally. Motives could be: A - To drive away/discredit any opposition before a passive majority of its members subscribe to forum emails, then erase/replace it all the carnage with a narrative of how nobody volunteered to help, threw stones, and statements of good riddance? A A - To intimidate and silence opposing opinions turning them into disengaged A low-information minions who pay dues? A A - A belief that short attention spans will forget this? A A - In the name of progress because the masses are fools that have to be led? Of course, these are justA conspiracyA theories, but my gut and view of actions from the inside says the degree of truth to all of them ranges from a little to right on the money. Your gastric outcomes may vary. Regardless of the motives, such activity and hate speech must be sanctionedA by the POCA BOD, otherwise, it would have been stopped or at a minimum be publicly denounced. Not even once was it denounced nor has it diminished. I sincerely hope POCA survives this new public image it has created. I feel sorry for you Ed L. You seemed like a straight-up guy to me that was dealt a rotten situation until you requested that I not to use this email forum. If any BOD members are left standing if/when this ship sinks, you have only yourselves to blame for allowing one person to continue shooting vitriol speech when in hindsight you should have taken away his bullet points (not so subtle colloquialism intended).A Even if you somehow craft an apology or stop the hate speech, don't be surprised when it does not fool anybody without actions to back it up.A True colors have been shown and they are not pretty.A Sad, but true that none of this was even necessary if not for the actions of one replaceable spokesperson representing the entire organization and a board that was indifferent for reasons unknown to at least me. I once considered the current President my friend.A I have attended events with him, hosted him and his lovely wife Joanie while they were attending the Amelia Island Concourse, and he has hosted myself and my wife for the Hilton Head Concourse. At this stage in my life, I have no energy available to expend for any person or entity with his M.O., especially one that I pay dues to support.A Micheal, please erase my contact information from your phone, email, and address book.A I suspect we will never meet again. For everybody else, thank you all for being there for me and my car over these 8 long years of restoration.A Proactive thanks for the years to come and I welcome the opportunity to meet and help any of you if the opportunity ever arises. Rob DuMoulin Caretaker of 1488 _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
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_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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Well stated Will , Rob is one of my new heroes . A shining example of integrity , conviction , and thoughtfulness . I hope someday to shake his hand . - Jim Coyne that the the list. list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 10:08 PM, Will Kooiman <will.kooiman@gmail.com> wrote: POCA is temporarily on crack. It will get better, but it will take time. Amen to that! Jeff 6559 On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 10:08 PM, Will Kooiman <[1]will.kooiman@gmail.com> wrote: POCA is temporarily on crack.A It will get better, but it will take time. Amen to that! Jeff 6559 References 1. mailto:will.kooiman@gmail.com
participants (4)
-
James coyne -
Jeff Detrich -
RallyFanatic＠aol.com -
Will Kooiman