Dear Larry, Good point. You’re right. Warmest regards, Chuck Engles From: Larry Stock [mailto:larrys@panteraparts.com] Sent: Friday, May 30, 2025 3:54 PM To: Charles Engles; 'Pantdino'; 'Don Thomas' Cc: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Re: Techno Question: AC system dryer insulation One other thing that has not been discussed, is the clamp that holds all this to the body should be sized to fit around the Foam insulator. Without the insulation, you can let it hang, or you will need a smaller sized Dryer clamp. Larry From: Charles Engles <cengles@cox.net> Date: Friday, May 30, 2025 at 12:51 PM To: 'Pantdino' <pantdino@aol.com>, Larry Stock <larrys@panteraparts.com>, 'Don Thomas' <dtpantera@gmail.com> Cc: <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Re: Techno Question: AC system dryer insulation Dear Jim, You are correct. I have the replacement drier. I will use the proper R134 ester oil. The question seems to come down to whether the factory foam insulation covering the drier is a) of critical importance; b) unnecessary with modern R134 and driers; or c) optional? It seems that it is probably not critical, but it does seem to have some beneficial insulation effects. I am aware that a fair number of Panteras no longer use the foam “cup” of insulation. Warmest regards, Chuck Engles From: Pantdino [mailto:pantdino@aol.com] Sent: Friday, May 30, 2025 1:42 PM To: Larry Stock; Don Thomas; Charles Engles Cc: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Re: Techno Question: AC system dryer insulation Are you asking about the foam insulation or the dryer itself? The foam presumably insulated the dryer from engine heat, but it is probably not critical. Jim Sent from AOL Mobile Mail On Friday, May 30, 2025, 9:22 AM, Larry Stock <larrys@panteraparts.com> wrote: The big problem is that all the residual oil remains in the Drier. R-12 mineral oil is NOT compatible with PAG oil that comes in most Rotary AC Compressors Even with changing the drier, The residual mineral oil found at the bottom of the Evaporator will form little clear gel balls and clog the Evaporator valve filter in about 3 weeks running the contaminated system. We need to use Ester 100 oil in our Pantera's with R134 flare fitting rotary compressors to be compatible. Larry Stock On 5/29/25, 10:01 PM, "Don Thomas" <dtpantera@gmail.com <mailto:dtpantera@gmail.com>> wrote: Hi Chuck, The purest AC Service Tech's will recommend that you replace the Dryer if the system is opened up. If you are switching from R12 to R134a ... You will need to replace the Dryer. The difference between an R12 and R134a AC dryer lies in the desiccant used. Older R12 dryers had desiccants that are not compatible with R134a/oil, but if the dryer was manufactured after 1993, the desiccant should be compatible with both refrigerants. When converting an AC system from R12 to R134a, it is recommended to replace the dryer with a new one that has a desiccant compatible with R134a. For more details .. here is a good reference: [1]https://www.perplexity.ai/search/r12-r134-ac-dryer-difere <https://www.perplexity.ai/search/r12-r134-ac-dryer-difere> nce-5JelBMroRqeCiDYC3RLc4Q As for the foam around it... I have no idea. Best regards, -dt Don Thomas On Thu, May 29, 2025 at 9:15 AM Charles Engles <[2]cengles@cox.net <mailto:cengles@cox.net>> wrote: Dear Forum, This is a trivial question about the dryer in the Pantera AC system. Is the stock factory foam insulation over the dryer necessary if converting to R134? Mine is fifty years old and ready for retirement. Must it be replaced? Curious, Chuck Engles _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list -- [3]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To unsubscribe send an email to [4]detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. https://www.perplexity.ai/search/r12-r134-ac-dryer-diference-5JelBMroRqeCiDY... <https://www.perplexity.ai/search/r12-r134-ac-dryer-diference-5JelBMroRqeCiDYC3RLc4Q> 2 mailto:cengles@cox.net <mailto:cengles@cox.net> 3 mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> 4. mailto:detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com> _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list -- detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To unsubscribe send an email to detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list -- detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To unsubscribe send an email to detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Dear Larry, Good point. You’re right. Warmest regards, Chuck Engles From: Larry Stock [mailto:larrys@panteraparts.com] Sent: Friday, May 30, 2025 3:54 PM To: Charles Engles; 'Pantdino'; 'Don Thomas' Cc: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Re: Techno Question: AC system dryer insulation One other thing that has not been discussed, is the clamp that holds all this to the body should be sized to fit around the Foam insulator. Without the insulation, you can let it hang, or you will need a smaller sized Dryer clamp. Larry From: Charles Engles <cengles@cox.net> Date: Friday, May 30, 2025 at 12:51 PM To: 'Pantdino' <pantdino@aol.com>, Larry Stock <larrys@panteraparts.com>, 'Don Thomas' <dtpantera@gmail.com> Cc: <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Re: Techno Question: AC system dryer insulation Dear Jim, You are correct. I have the replacement drier. I will use the proper R134 ester oil. The question seems to come down to whether the factory foam insulation covering the drier is a) of critical importance; b) unnecessary with modern R134 and driers; or c) optional? It seems that it is probably not critical, but it does seem to have some beneficial insulation effects. I am aware that a fair number of Panteras no longer use the foam “cup” of insulation. Warmest regards, Chuck Engles From: Pantdino [mailto:pantdino@aol.com] Sent: Friday, May 30, 2025 1:42 PM To: Larry Stock; Don Thomas; Charles Engles Cc: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Re: Techno Question: AC system dryer insulation Are you asking about the foam insulation or the dryer itself? The foam presumably insulated the dryer from engine heat, but it is probably not critical. Jim Sent from AOL Mobile Mail On Friday, May 30, 2025, 9:22 AM, Larry Stock <larrys@panteraparts.com> wrote: The big problem is that all the residual oil remains in the Drier. R-12 mineral oil is NOT compatible with PAG oil that comes in most Rotary AC Compressors Even with changing the drier, The residual mineral oil found at the bottom of the Evaporator will form little clear gel balls and clog the Evaporator valve filter in about 3 weeks running the contaminated system. We need to use Ester 100 oil in our Pantera's with R134 flare fitting rotary compressors to be compatible. Larry Stock On 5/29/25, 10:01 PM, "Don Thomas" <[1]dtpantera@gmail.com <mailto:dtpantera@gmail.com>> wrote: Hi Chuck, The purest AC Service Tech's will recommend that you replace the Dryer if the system is opened up. If you are switching from R12 to R134a ... You will need to replace the Dryer. The difference between an R12 and R134a AC dryer lies in the desiccant used. Older R12 dryers had desiccants that are not compatible with R134a/oil, but if the dryer was manufactured after 1993, the desiccant should be compatible with both refrigerants. When converting an AC system from R12 to R134a, it is recommended to replace the dryer with a new one that has a desiccant compatible with R134a. For more details .. here is a good reference: [1]https://www.perplexity.ai/search/r12-r134-ac-dryer-difere <[2]https://www.perplexity.ai/search/r12-r134-ac-dryer-difere> nce-5JelBMroRqeCiDYC3RLc4Q As for the foam around it... I have no idea. Best regards, -dt Don Thomas On Thu, May 29, 2025 at 9:15 AM Charles Engles <[2]cengles@cox.net <mailto:cengles@cox.net>> wrote: Dear Forum, This is a trivial question about the dryer in the Pantera AC system. Is the stock factory foam insulation over the dryer necessary if converting to R134? Mine is fifty years old and ready for retirement. Must it be replaced? Curious, Chuck Engles _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list -- [3]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To unsubscribe send an email to [4]detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. [3]https://www.perplexity.ai/search/r12-r134-ac-dryer-diference-5JelBMr oRqeCiDYC3RLc4Q <[4]https://www.perplexity.ai/search/r12-r134-ac-dryer-diference-5JelBM roRqeCiDYC3RLc4Q> 2 mailto:cengles@cox.net <mailto:cengles@cox.net> 3 mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> 4. mailto:detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com> _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list -- [5]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To unsubscribe send an email to [6]detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list -- [7]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To unsubscribe send an email to [8]detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:dtpantera@gmail.com 2. https://www.perplexity.ai/search/r12-r134-ac-dryer-difere 3. https://www.perplexity.ai/search/r12-r134-ac-dryer-diference-5JelBMroRqeCiDY... 4. https://www.perplexity.ai/search/r12-r134-ac-dryer-diference-5JelBMroRqeCiDY... 5. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 6. mailto:detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com 7. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 8. mailto:detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com