Okay, let's put our engineering hats on and have some fun technical discussion..... it sure beats the discussion over POCA of late! I think (but readily admit my engineering degree is not in aerodynamics!) hood vents and location play a minor part in overall aerodynamics. Hood vents are a great way to provide additional cooling in traffic, but perhaps limited value at high speed when the front of the hood becomes a high pressure area. Now you have opposing forces at play and at speed 'x' the pressure is likely enough to overcome that produced by the radiator fans (I imagine that 'x' would not be excessively high, perhaps even highway cruising speed). So outside air now reverse enters the hood vents or at a minimum restricts fan flow resulting in air that is forced under the car i.e. back to the original Ford design concept. A Gurney lip on the frontal edge of hood vents would help create a low pressure area, but I still believe the air from the radiators will ultimately be forced under the car at some speed now x+y. As testament to the pressures on the hood Larry Stock told me that Mike Cooke collapsed an aluminum hood at high speed. As alternative thinking, most cars that employ an aerodynamic frontal hood vent do so in combination with a full flat underside. I think this is a critical element in the success of the design and one without the other is likely non productive. Furthermore most running Pantera's in ORR have reported that a front air dam is a key element in preventing front end lift at +150mph, again attesting to restricting air flow under the car is the most critical element. I'd go for the front air dam in combination with a fully enclosed flat floor/tray as my first modifications and leave cutting the front trunk aspect (and the ensuing frontal rigidity impact). As an a side the popular radiator fan shrouds also become restrictive at high speed and require opening up, some have achieved this with simple hinged flaps that can freely open as the pressure through the radiator increases. Julian ________________________________ From: Ken Green <kenn_green@yahoo.com> Sent: Monday, August 1, 2016 10:28 AM To: James coyne; Julian Kift; Rod Kunishige; scottcouchman@yahoo.com; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Has anyone researched hood vent designs? Probably more correct to say I intend the car to be able to run well over 150. Not sure if I want to drive that fast on a country road. I would be a lot more comfortable having fun at lower speeds in an ORR, and trying the flying mile type events to see how fast the car can actually go. The older we get, the longer it takes to heal. Ken ________________________________ From: James coyne <tecnosound@hotmail.com> To: Julian Kift <julian_kift@hotmail.com>; Rod Kunishige <rkunishige@hotmail.com>; "scottcouchman@yahoo.com" <scottcouchman@yahoo.com>; Ken Green <kenn_green@yahoo.com>; "detomaso@server.detomasolist.com" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Monday, August 1, 2016 9:00 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Has anyone researched hood vent designs? I believe it is indeed Ken's intension to run in the 150mph+ classes at open road events . ________________________________ From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of Julian Kift <julian_kift@hotmail.com> Sent: Monday, August 1, 2016 7:49 AM To: Rod Kunishige; scottcouchman@yahoo.com; Ken Green; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Has anyone researched hood vent designs? This seems like an awful lot of work for little to no gain, is this a dedicated race car that will be running the 150mph+ classes at an Open Road Race? Julian ________________________________ From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of Ken Green via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Monday, August 1, 2016 7:00 AM To: Rod Kunishige; scottcouchman@yahoo.com Cc: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Has anyone researched hood vent designs? My gut feeing is the opening needs to be moved back to reduce air pressure over the opening. And that probably depends on speed. Ken From: Rod Kunishige <rkunishige@hotmail.com> To: "scottcouchman@yahoo.com" <scottcouchman@yahoo.com>; Ken Green <kenn_green@yahoo.com> Cc: "detomaso@server.detomasolist.com" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2016 10:13 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Has anyone researched hood vent designs? I really like the idea of boxing the trunk in your design. It means moving the support ribs for the hood. Can you enlarge the opening by starting closer to the radiator? From: Ken Green <kenn_green@yahoo.com> I think photos of that car were posted a year ago? I want the car to look like a Pantera, not a GT40. en From: "scottcouchman@yahoo.com" <scottcouchman@yahoo.com> You should talk with Tony Ortiz in Arizona. He modified his Pantera to install front and rear GT40 clips. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso DeTomaso Info Page<http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso> server.detomasolist.com This is the DeTomaso mailing list, a free and open forum for the discussion of issues surrounding all DeTomaso automobiles. This is an unmoderated mailing list ... DeTomaso Info Page<http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso> server.detomasolist.com This is the DeTomaso mailing list, a free and open forum for the discussion of issues surrounding all DeTomaso automobiles. This is an unmoderated mailing list ... DeTomaso Info Page<http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso> server.detomasolist.com This is the DeTomaso mailing list, a free and open forum for the discussion of issues surrounding all DeTomaso automobiles. This is an unmoderated mailing list ... To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Okay, let's put our engineering hats on and have some fun technical discussion..... it sure beats the discussion over POCA of late! I think (but readily admit my engineering degree is not in aerodynamics!) hood vents and location play a minor part in overall aerodynamics. Hood vents are a great way to provide additional cooling in traffic, but perhaps limited value at high speed when the front of the hood becomes a high pressure area. Now you have opposing forces at play and at speed 'x' the pressure is likely enough to overcome that produced by the radiator fans (I imagine that 'x' would not be excessively high, perhaps even highway cruising speed). So outside air now reverse enters the hood vents or at a minimum restricts fan flow resulting in air that is forced under the car i.e. back to the original Ford design concept. A Gurney lip on the frontal edge of hood vents would help create a low pressure area, but I still believe the air from the radiators will ultimately be forced under the car at some speed now x+y. As testament to the pressures on the hood Larry Stock told me that Mike Cooke collapsed an aluminum hood at high speed. As alternative thinking, most cars that employ an aerodynamic frontal hood vent do so in combination with a full flat underside. I think this is a critical element in the success of the design and one without the other is likely non productive. Furthermore most running Pantera's in ORR have reported that a front air dam is a key element in preventing front end lift at +150mph, again attesting to restricting air flow under the car is the most critical element. I'd go for the front air dam in combination with a fully enclosed flat floor/tray as my first modifications and leave cutting the front trunk aspect (and the ensuing frontal rigidity impact). As an a side the popular radiator fan shrouds also become restrictive at high speed and require opening up, some have achieved this with simple hinged flaps that can freely open as the pressure through the radiator increases. Julian __________________________________________________________________ From: Ken Green <kenn_green@yahoo.com> Sent: Monday, August 1, 2016 10:28 AM To: James coyne; Julian Kift; Rod Kunishige; scottcouchman@yahoo.com; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Has anyone researched hood vent designs? Probably more correct to say I intend the car to be able to run well over 150. Not sure if I want to drive that fast on a country road. I would be a lot more comfortable having fun at lower speeds in an ORR, and trying the flying mile type events to see how fast the car can actually go. The older we get, the longer it takes to heal. Ken __________________________________________________________________ From: James coyne <tecnosound@hotmail.com> To: Julian Kift <julian_kift@hotmail.com>; Rod Kunishige <rkunishige@hotmail.com>; "scottcouchman@yahoo.com" <scottcouchman@yahoo.com>; Ken Green <kenn_green@yahoo.com>; "detomaso@server.detomasolist.com" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Monday, August 1, 2016 9:00 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Has anyone researched hood vent designs? I believe it is indeed Ken's intension to run in the 150mph+ classes at open road events . __________________________________________________________________ From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of Julian Kift <julian_kift@hotmail.com> Sent: Monday, August 1, 2016 7:49 AM To: Rod Kunishige; scottcouchman@yahoo.com; Ken Green; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Has anyone researched hood vent designs? This seems like an awful lot of work for little to no gain, is this a dedicated race car that will be running the 150mph+ classes at an Open Road Race? Julian ________________________________ From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of Ken Green via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Monday, August 1, 2016 7:00 AM To: Rod Kunishige; scottcouchman@yahoo.com Cc: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Has anyone researched hood vent designs? My gut feeing is the opening needs to be moved back to reduce air pressure over the opening. And that probably depends on speed. Ken From: Rod Kunishige <rkunishige@hotmail.com> To: "scottcouchman@yahoo.com" <scottcouchman@yahoo.com>; Ken Green <kenn_green@yahoo.com> Cc: "detomaso@server.detomasolist.com" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2016 10:13 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Has anyone researched hood vent designs? I really like the idea of boxing the trunk in your design. It means moving the support ribs for the hood. Can you enlarge the opening by starting closer to the radiator? From: Ken Green <kenn_green@yahoo.com> I think photos of that car were posted a year ago? I want the car to look like a Pantera, not a GT40. en From: "scottcouchman@yahoo.com" <scottcouchman@yahoo.com> You should talk with Tony Ortiz in Arizona. He modified his Pantera to install front and rear GT40 clips. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [1]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso [2]DeTomaso Info Page server.detomasolist.com This is the DeTomaso mailing list, a free and open forum for the discussion of issues surrounding all DeTomaso automobiles. This is an unmoderated mailing list ... [3]DeTomaso Info Page server.detomasolist.com This is the DeTomaso mailing list, a free and open forum for the discussion of issues surrounding all DeTomaso automobiles. This is an unmoderated mailing list ... DeTomaso Info Page<[4]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso> server.detomasolist.com This is the DeTomaso mailing list, a free and open forum for the discussion of issues surrounding all DeTomaso automobiles. This is an unmoderated mailing list ... To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 2. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 3. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 4. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso