Ken, The Ford coolers as used on Crown Vic police cars and taxis are made for Ford by Laminova. The external casting is to Ford specs for packaging reasons but the guts are pure Laminova. I have several of them I've had modified to take A/N fittings but have yet to find the time to install one on my car. I'm still trying to choose a mounting location.... Mike Sent from my iPhone On Jun 12, 2016, at 10:22, Ken Green <kenn_green@yahoo.com> wrote:
Jeff,
Do you think the "Laminova" type oil coolers the Ford used do a very good job? I don't think the Ford coolers have the cooling capacity of the coolers made by Laminova? Seems like they also restrict coolant flow.
Ken
From: Jeff Cobb <jeffcobb1@me.com> To: mark skwarek <ehpantera@yahoo.com>; Mike Drew <MikeLDrew@aol.com>; Tomas Gunnarsson <guson@home.se>; "detomaso@server.detomasolist.com" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2016 9:14 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature
Interesting thread. It has been documented many decades back in the aircraft industry that heat exchangers were more efficient if the exchangers airflow speed was much lower than the vehicles speed. Cooling air needs time to conduct air from the cooling fins/coils surfaces otherwise the fins boundary air allows the laminar air rushing through to not touch the hot metal fins. So the ducts entry area needs to be less than the coolers surface area, maybe by 1/4th.
Oil temps should always be warmer than the coolant up to about coolants 210 F, though the oil heat rejection reserve capacity must be greater than that of the coolants so that at extreme temps the oils temp does not rise quicker nor higher than the coolant. After 230F + -, oil temps under load will rise much quicker than coolant temps so a larger reserve heat rejection option relative to coolants reserve design must be present so to not allow dangerous oil temps, ie; 280F. The oil is primary in cooling all the interior heated parts directly whereas coolant takes heat from surfaces that are secondary heat conductors, are a slave to radiated heat or metals that capture/hold heat from friction. Large oil coolers with a thermostatic controlled variable duct nozzle entry and thermostatically controlled oil flow may work the best in heat rejection to air. Whereas a Laminova tubular coolers work the best in a cooling liquid because of the high surface area and has a better ability to keep both temp closer together.
Keep cool, Jeff Cobb
On Jun 12, 2016, at 8:26 AM, mark skwarek via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
On Jun 11, 2016, at 1:40 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <[8][8]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
AJ,
Since you had instrumentation, what were your temps when driving at freeway speeds?
Mike
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 11, 2016, at 13:18, Asa Jay Laughton <[9][9]asajay@asajay.com> wrote:
Talking with another open road racer a few years ago about this topic, I was told you want about 230 degrees F and nothing near 290. That's a nearly 60 degree difference. But the way he gave me the information makes me think you want to make sure you stay down around
For open road racing, depnding on the engine build and speed, a
racer will definitely want an oil cooler. Last year I ran the 120 class and spent a good amount of time near 130. My oil temp ran right around 230, so I knew if I wanted to move up to the 130-140 class, I'd need to add an oil cooler.
Your mileage may vary, Asa Jay
Quoting Jack Donahue <[10][10]demongusta@gmail.com>:
Once again, as summer approaches, cooling becomes an issue and
topic of some discussion. Rather than beating the radiator, water
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My oil cooler is mounted horizontally in front of the right rear wheel. I have a separate oil pump to circulate the oil. Last year I ran some ducting from my front spoiler to the oil cooler. While running at SSCC last year 140 to 160 my oil temp was at 190 if I left the oil pump running. I'm changing back to a scoop in front of the wheel to see what happens this year. Mark 5481 On Sunday, June 12, 2016 4:47 AM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote: Agreed--I think the wheel well-mounted air-oil cooler was a monumental act of wishful thinking.... Mike Sent from my iPad On Jun 12, 2016, at 1:43 AM, Tomas Gunnarsson <[1][1]guson@home.se> wrote: What makes an air/oil cooler work is airflow through the cooler fins. I doubt that the pressure difference over an oil cooler in that position is significant, so it has limited effect on oil temp. Tomas <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-----> From: Scott Mead Photography [[2][2]scott@scottmeadphotography.com] Sent: 11/6/2016 11:56:18 PM To: [3][3]demongusta@gmail.com;[4][4]MikeLDrew@aol.com Cc: [5][5]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature Many moons ago, I saw a setup at Gary Hall's shop: He had installed a reverse-louvered, splash panel on the right rear with an oil cooler mounted to the inside (non-tire side) of the shield. The philosophy was that the spinning tire would provide a constant stream of air through the louvers at speed, cooling the oil. Whether it effectively worked, I have no idea, but it was a clean setup. FWIW, Scott -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [[6]mailto:[6]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Jack Donahue Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2016 10:55 AM To: Mike Drew Cc: [7][7]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature Out of curiosity, where would you add an oil cooler? And would it be an air-to-liquid - or - liquid-to-liquid cooler? Having moved the A/C condenser to the front, I was thinking of using the original condenser-space for an air-to-liquid cooler with a pusher fan. I get the feeling, however, that it's a waste of time, which sounds good/great to me. The old "track-pushing-hard" syndrome left me a few years back. Always looking for a way to NOT look at the temp gauge on hot days in traffic. 230. People smarter than me will know a lot more than me. I also run Amsoil full synthetic and there is a temp for viscocity breakdown but I don't have the spec in front of me. pump, thermostat, and pressure cap horses to death, I thought I would pursue the oil temperature. So, all you gurus, what is the normal range of an oil temperature in these beautiful beasts? My next little project (get in line) is to install an oil temp gauge. Waste of time? I guess I need some feedback. All input is appreciated. the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
-- Asa Jay Laughton - sent from somewhere other than home ****************************************************** [13][13]http://www.w7tsc.org/ [14][14]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
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My oil cooler is mounted horizontally in front of the right rear wheel. I have a separate oil pump to circulate the oil. Last year I ran some ducting from my front spoiler to the oil cooler. While running at SSCC last year 140 to 160 my oil temp was at 190 if I left the oil pump running. I'm changing back to a scoop in front of the wheel to see what happens this year. Mark 5481 On Sunday, June 12, 2016 4:47 AM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <[9]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote: Agreed--I think the wheel well-mounted air-oil cooler was a monumental act of wishful thinking.... Mike Sent from my iPad On Jun 12, 2016, at 1:43 AM, Tomas Gunnarsson <[1][1][10]guson@home.se> wrote: What makes an air/oil cooler work is airflow through the cooler fins. I doubt that the pressure difference over an oil cooler in that position is significant, so it has limited effect on oil temp. Tomas <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-----> From: Scott Mead Photography [[2][2][11]scott@scottmeadphotography.com] Sent: 11/6/2016 11:56:18 PM To: [3][3][12]demongusta@gmail.com;[4][4][13]MikeLDrew@aol.com Cc: [5][5][14]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature Many moons ago, I saw a setup at Gary Hall's shop: He had installed a reverse-louvered, splash panel on the right rear with an oil cooler mounted to the inside (non-tire side) of the shield. The
was that the spinning tire would provide a constant stream of air
the louvers at speed, cooling the oil. Whether it effectively worked, I have no idea, but it was a clean setup. FWIW, Scott -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [[6]mailto:[6][15]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Jack Donahue Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2016 10:55 AM To: Mike Drew Cc: [7][7][16]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature Out of curiosity, where would you add an oil cooler? And would it be an air-to-liquid - or - liquid-to-liquid cooler? Having moved the A/C condenser to the front, I was thinking of using the original condenser-space for an air-to-liquid cooler with a pusher fan. I get the feeling, however, that it's a waste of time, which sounds good/great to me. The old "track-pushing-hard" syndrome left me a few years back. Always looking for a way to NOT look at the temp gauge on hot days in traffic.
On Jun 11, 2016, at 1:40 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <[8][8][17]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
AJ,
Since you had instrumentation, what were your temps when driving at freeway speeds?
Mike
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 11, 2016, at 13:18, Asa Jay Laughton <[9][9][18]asajay@asajay.com> wrote:
Talking with another open road racer a few years ago about this topic, I was told you want about 230 degrees F and nothing near
Ken, The Ford coolers as used on Crown Vic police cars and taxis are made for Ford by Laminova. The external casting is to Ford specs for packaging reasons but the guts are pure Laminova. I have several of them I've had modified to take A/N fittings but have yet to find the time to install one on my car. I'm still trying to choose a mounting location.... Mike Sent from my iPhone On Jun 12, 2016, at 10:22, Ken Green <[1]kenn_green@yahoo.com> wrote: Jeff, Do you think the "Laminova" type oil coolers the Ford used do a very good job? I don't think the Ford coolers have the cooling capacity of the coolers made by Laminova? Seems like they also restrict coolant flow. Ken __________________________________________________________________ From: Jeff Cobb <[2]jeffcobb1@me.com> To: mark skwarek <[3]ehpantera@yahoo.com>; Mike Drew <[4]MikeLDrew@aol.com>; Tomas Gunnarsson <[5]guson@home.se>; "[6]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com" <[7]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2016 9:14 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature Interesting thread. It has been documented many decades back in the aircraft industry that heat exchangers were more efficient if the exchangers airflow speed was much lower than the vehicles speed. Cooling air needs time to conduct air from the cooling fins/coils surfaces otherwise the fins boundary air allows the laminar air rushing through to not touch the hot metal fins. So the ducts entry area needs to be less than the coolers surface area, maybe by 1/4th. Oil temps should always be warmer than the coolant up to about coolants 210 F, though the oil heat rejection reserve capacity must be greater than that of the coolants so that at extreme temps the oils temp does not rise quicker nor higher than the coolant. After 230F + -, oil temps under load will rise much quicker than coolant temps so a larger reserve heat rejection option relative to coolants reserve design must be present so to not allow dangerous oil temps, ie; 280F. The oil is primary in cooling all the interior heated parts directly whereas coolant takes heat from surfaces that are secondary heat conductors, are a slave to radiated heat or metals that capture/hold heat from friction. Large oil coolers with a thermostatic controlled variable duct nozzle entry and thermostatically controlled oil flow may work the best in heat rejection to air. Whereas a Laminova tubular coolers work the best in a cooling liquid because of the high surface area and has a better ability to keep both temp closer together. Keep cool, Jeff Cobb On Jun 12, 2016, at 8:26 AM, mark skwarek via DeTomaso <[8]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote: philosophy through 290.
For open road racing, depnding on the engine build and speed, a
racer will definitely want an oil cooler. Last year I ran the 120 class and spent a good amount of time near 130. My oil temp ran right around 230, so I knew if I wanted to move up to the 130-140 class, I'd need to add an oil cooler.
Your mileage may vary, Asa Jay
Quoting Jack Donahue <[10][10][19]demongusta@gmail.com>:
Once again, as summer approaches, cooling becomes an issue and
topic of some discussion. Rather than beating the radiator, water
#4348 _______________________________________________
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etc.) use the links above.
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That's a nearly 60 degree difference. But the way he gave me the information makes me think you want to make sure you stay down around 230. People smarter than me will know a lot more than me. I also run Amsoil full synthetic and there is a temp for viscocity breakdown but I don't have the spec in front of me. pump, thermostat, and pressure cap horses to death, I thought I would pursue the oil temperature. So, all you gurus, what is the normal range of an oil temperature in these beautiful beasts? My next little project (get in line) is to install an oil temp gauge. Waste of time? I guess I need some feedback. All input is appreciated. the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
-- Asa Jay Laughton - sent from somewhere other than home ****************************************************** [13][13][22]http://www.w7tsc.org/ [14][14][23]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
_______________________________________________
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References 1. mailto:kenn_green@yahoo.com 2. mailto:jeffcobb1@me.com 3. mailto:ehpantera@yahoo.com 4. mailto:MikeLDrew@aol.com 5. mailto:guson@home.se 6. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 7. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 8. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 9. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 10. mailto:guson@home.se 11. mailto:scott@scottmeadphotography.com 12. mailto:demongusta@gmail.com 13. mailto:MikeLDrew@aol.com 14. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 15. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 16. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 17. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 18. mailto:asajay@asajay.com 19. mailto:demongusta@gmail.com 20. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 21. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 22. http://www.w7tsc.org/ 23. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/