Re: [DeTomaso] DeTomaso Digest, Vol 147, Issue 35

29 Sep 2016

      ...
Hey Pantera Guru's,
   I finally got to my Pantera last night. (work is getting in the
   way of
   my fun!!)
   Simple fix.  ALL my valve cover bolts were loose.  Every one of
...
I tightened them all
   but didn't want to over tighten them.  Anyone know what the
   correct
   torque should be?
   I have roller rockers and the taller Ford Racing valve covers for
   clearance.
   Your thoughts?
   Terry
"A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan,
stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!"
Terry W. Himes
JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Dawn Spacecraft Team
Rosetta Sequence Team Lead
Phone: (818) 393-6261
Cell:    (818) 653-8213
Fax:    (818) 393-3147
[1][3]thimes@jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:thimes@jpl.nasa.gov>
References
1.mailto:[4]thimes@jpl.nasa.gov
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Jack & Everyone (et al),

Thanks for al the great feedback.  I have tightened the valve cover bolts to the "Mechanics Feel"
specification.  (taking me back to my dad and working on Ford Fairlane 289's while growing up).
The oil leaks have stopped.  Weird that ALL bolts were loose.  I'll put that on my checklist now.

I do not know what type of gasket was used when they rebuilt my engine.  And Ed Hale Racing is
out of business now.   By looking at the edges I can tell it is not cork and looks like a combo of
rubber (neoprene?) and metal. Dunno?  Someday I will need to remove the valve covers.

But for now, I'm going to "drive her like there's no tomorrow"  right?  ;-)

Terry

"A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan,
 stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!"

Terry W. Himes
JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Dawn Spacecraft Team
Rosetta Sequence Team Lead
Phone: (818) 393-6261
Cell:     (818) 653-8213
Fax:     (818) 393-3147
thimes@jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:thimes@jpl.nasa.gov>
🇺🇸

From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com>> on behalf of Jack DeRyke via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>>
Reply-To: "jderyke@aol.com<mailto:jderyke@aol.com>" <jderyke@aol.com<mailto:jderyke@aol.com>>
Date: Thursday, September 29, 2016 11:20 AM
To: "detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] DeTomaso Digest, Vol 147, Issue 35

Terry, quite a bit of the 'required' torque depends on what valve cover gaskets you use. The old stand-by- cork- will slowly crush down close to each bolt even if correctly torqued, which not only produces leaks, retightening also will eventually pinch the gaskett into pieces, making reuse or further retightening impossible. Too little torque plus blow-by can blow sections of gasket outside the covers, or sometimes suck pieces inside. It also depends on what valve covers you have; the OEM sheet steel ones are extremely flexible and really need large oblong washers under each bolt to spread the load. Cast aluminum ones are heavier and more rigid so bolt torque is effectively spread out. Overtorquing cast covers will break the bolts.
Neoprene gaskets can take a little more torque than cork before tightening will damage them. Its a toss-up as to whether the bolt will shear or the gasket will leak. Note- all the above also applies to oil pan gaskets.  A couple of companies offer pre-formed silicone gaskets that are (maybe) infinitely reusable with a little RTV on one side. One type is lined with metal to prevent suck-in or blow-outs. They are expensive.

Good luck- J Deryke

-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-request <detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com>>
To: detomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>>
Sent: Thu, Sep 29, 2016 9:00 am
Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 147, Issue 35

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Daily Detomaso List Digest

Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Carb (audionut@hushmail.com<mailto:audionut@hushmail.com>)
   2. Re: Fans and shroud (Jack Donahue)
   3. Boyd Coddington 10-Spoke Wheels and Tires for sale - $1200
      (Brent Stewart)
   4. Re: Boyd Coddington 10-Spoke Wheels and Tires for sale -
      $1200 (JFFR)
   5. Re: Boyd Coddington 10-Spoke Wheels and Tires for sale -
   $1200 (Mike Thomas)
   6. Beautiful Gr4 clone for sale (Mike Drew)
   7. Re: Fwd: Re:  Oil Leak Fixed. What Torque? (Guido deTomaso)
   8. Re: Fwd: Re:  Oil Leak Fixed. What Torque? (Joseph F. Byrd, Jr.)
   9. Original EU GTS for sale in Germany (Patrick HALS)
  10. Re: Boyd Coddington 10-Spoke Wheels and Tires for sale - Sale
      Pending (Brent Stewart)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2016 10:59:11 -0700
From: audionut@hushmail.com<mailto:audionut@hushmail.com>
To: "Trip Owen" <lance730@msn.com<mailto:lance730@msn.com>>, detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Carb
Message-ID: <20160928175911.7F6D84010F@smtp.hushmail.com<mailto:20160928175911.7F6D84010F@smtp.hushmail.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Just bolted on Larry Stock's (Pantera Parts Connection) Quick Fuel 650
a few months ago and my stock motor loves it.  Didn't have to adjust a
thing.
Sent using Hushmail
On September 27, 2016 at 3:29 PM, "Trip Owen"  wrote:Can someone
suggest a carb. for stock 351 Cleveland with Edelbrock intake?  My old
Holly is not delivering fuel -
I know its getting there - checked front float, was not
stuck.......did the usual - inline filter, pump check, carb.
filter........
don't want fancy upgrade - just plug and play is fine -
Trip
88' GT5S
-------------- next part --------------
   Just bolted on Larry Stock's (Pantera Parts Connection) Quick Fuel 650
   a few months ago and my stock motor loves it.  Didn't have to adjust a
   thing.
   Sent using Hushmail
   On September 27, 2016 at 3:29 PM, "Trip Owen" <lance730@msn.com<mailto:lance730@msn.com>> wrote:

     Can someone suggest a carb. for stock 351 Cleveland with Edelbrock
     intake? My old Holly is not delivering fuel -
     I know its getting there - checked front float, was not
     stuck.......did the usual - inline filter, pump check, carb.
     filter........
     don't want fancy upgrade - just plug and play is fine -
     Trip
     88' GT5S

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2016 11:21:25 -0700
From: Jack Donahue <demongusta@gmail.com<mailto:demongusta@gmail.com>>
To: Larry Stock <larrys@panteraparts.com<mailto:larrys@panteraparts.com>>
Cc: "detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>"
<detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Fans and shroud
Message-ID: <373705D8-58A8-4BC7-9ED6-F18AB52B90F6@gmail.com<mailto:373705D8-58A8-4BC7-9ED6-F18AB52B90F6@gmail.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Hey Larry - Did you get my letter (offline from The List) regarding my radiator/fans/shroud? If it jams you up - or whatever - I can post it here on The List.
Jack
#4348
On Sep 16, 2016, at 11:24 AM, Larry Stock <larrys@panteraparts.com<mailto:larrys@panteraparts.com>> wrote:
Hi Jack,
You should be able to use the fans off the Fluidyne, if not we have our
Maridyne system fans and our own bracket kit and if you need shrouds for a
full lie-down system, we have those too. Typically we recommend our half
Lay forward system which minimizes the thru air turbulence.
  11041B Defl. Rad. S.S. Lay down for kit $95.00
11042B Stainless deflector right $65.00
11043B Stainless deflector left $65.00
11055B Radiator Puller Fan Shroud SS Mounting brackets set of 3 $125.00
11055P PPC Puller Fans & Shroud Assy $325.00
If the Hall Brass radiator has the stock quick 90 degree hard radiator
tubes installed, you will not be able to mount a puller fan shroud under
those tubes, if it has the straight out tubes then you can use 90 degree
molded rubber hoses to clear the Puller shroud like your Fluidyne.
Larry Stock
Pantera Parts Connection LC
550 Mallory Way
Carson City NV 89701
www.PanteraParts.com
PH  775-283-4411
Fax 775-283-4410
Cell 1-800-DeTomaso 800-338-6627
On 9/16/16, 9:29 AM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Jack Donahue"
<detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of
demongusta@gmail.com<mailto:demongusta@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hey all - A few weeks ago I was talking asking The List about  radiators
- all said-and-done, I decided on the Hall radiator, since I wanted
brass/copper instead of aluminum.  And, yes Mike Drew, I have to admit
it?s because I want to, not necessarily NEED to. It ain?t broke, but I am
fixing it(?). Didn?t want to admit that, but...Lol. There really is an
ulterior motive, but I just don?t want to mention it right now; but I ran
my idea past  Brassworks  - who says they will ?build-to-suit? - but the
Hall unit looks to be ?tried-and-proven?.
Now - fans. I really don?t know the brand name of my fans, but they are
suckers - about 12? diameter - and the blades are ?curved?  -
sickle-shaped. The names that been bouncing around are Mariah, SPAL, and
Flex-a-lite. I had read someone?s post about the Flex-a-lite?s since they
said they can be - or are - mounted in a shroud that is a perfect match
for the Pantera radiator size. I think. And someone offered-up  a part
number, but I deleted (or lost) it. All normal for me.
So - I am ready for opinions/suggestions:
jack
#4348
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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2016 19:30:54 +0000 (UTC)
From: Brent Stewart <bjbstewart@yahoo.com<mailto:bjbstewart@yahoo.com>>
To: Detomaso Email List <detomaso@detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@detomasolist.com>>
Subject: [DeTomaso] Boyd Coddington 10-Spoke Wheels and Tires for sale
- $1200
Message-ID: <753450431.6325176.1475091054822@mail.yahoo.com<mailto:753450431.6325176.1475091054822@mail.yahoo.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

All,.10 spoke 17" Billet aluminum wheels in EXCELLENT condition with virtually brand new Kumho Ecsta XS tires.?See: ?http://precisionproformance.com/superspoke.php.? - Front: 225/45 ZR17? - Rear: 315/35 ZR17.I'm in the SF Bay Area, but for you So-cal people I'll be in Santa Barbara on Nov 6th and can meet you there in the morning - can't beat free delivery!.I've also posted this on FaceBook -?https://www.facebook.com/groups/1107612195932654/permalink/1472243849469485/...
.Let me know if you have any questions!!.brent..

-------------- next part --------------
   All,
   .
   10 spoke 17" Billet aluminum wheels in EXCELLENT condition with
   virtually brand new Kumho Ecsta XS tires.
   See:  [1]http://precisionproformance.com/superspoke.php
   .
     - Front: 225/45 ZR17
     - Rear: 315/35 ZR17
   .
   I'm in the SF Bay Area, but for you So-cal people I'll be in Santa
   Barbara on Nov 6th and can meet you there in the morning - can't beat
   free delivery!
   .
   I've also posted this on FaceBook -
   [2]https://www.facebook.com/groups/1107612195932654/permalink/147224384
   9469485/?sale_post_id=1472243849469485
   .
   Let me know if you have any questions!!
   .
   brent
   .
   .

References

   1. http://precisionproformance.com/superspoke.php
   2. https://www.facebook.com/groups/1107612195932654/permalink/1472243849469485/...
-------------- next part --------------
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------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2016 15:19:35 -0700
From: JFFR <pantera@vtc.net<mailto:pantera@vtc.net>>
To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Boyd Coddington 10-Spoke Wheels and Tires for
sale - $1200
Message-ID: <13e9f4c3-e527-9c44-f6c4-8ae1d655a5df@vtc.net<mailto:13e9f4c3-e527-9c44-f6c4-8ae1d655a5df@vtc.net>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

Will these wheels fit a stock body car? If so, I am interested.

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2016 18:23:54 -0700
From: "Mike Thomas" <mbefthomas@comcast.net<mailto:mbefthomas@comcast.net>>
To: "'JFFR'" <pantera@vtc.net<mailto:pantera@vtc.net>>, <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Boyd Coddington 10-Spoke Wheels and Tires for
sale - $1200
Message-ID: <005501d219f0$251bf3c0$6f53db40$@comcast.net<mailto:005501d219f0$251bf3c0$6f53db40$@comcast.net>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I know the tires will, so expect the wheels will.  That's what's in the
picture
That's $200 for the wheels - those tires ran me $997 installed at Discount
tires when I put them on 6328 last year.  Great tires, but not when it's
wet.

Mike Thomas
Pres., Panteras Northwest
Yellow '74 #6328

-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf
Of JFFR
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 3:20 PM
To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Boyd Coddington 10-Spoke Wheels and Tires for sale -
$1200

Will these wheels fit a stock body car? If so, I am interested.

_______________________________________________

Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
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------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2016 20:43:14 -0700
From: Mike Drew <MikeLDrew@aol.com<mailto:MikeLDrew@aol.com>>
To: Jim Wallace via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>>
Subject: [DeTomaso] Beautiful Gr4 clone for sale
Message-ID: <550A70F7-5378-436E-965F-8F5DAC5194C9@aol.com<mailto:550A70F7-5378-436E-965F-8F5DAC5194C9@aol.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hi guys,

Longtime PCNC member Lee Hinkley has decided to sell his little-used Gr4 clone. This car was built 30 years ago but still looks terrific!  He has an ad in the current PCNC newsletter which can be downloaded from www.panteraclubnorcal.com

Asking price is $90k but negotiable.

Happy shopping!

Mike

Sent from my iPad

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2016 04:03:12 +0000 (UTC)
From: Guido deTomaso <guido_detomaso@prodigy.net<mailto:guido_detomaso@prodigy.net>>
To: "Joseph F. Byrd, Jr." <byrdjf@embarqmail.com<mailto:byrdjf@embarqmail.com>>,
"detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Fwd: Re:  Oil Leak Fixed. What Torque?
Message-ID: <1367266947.1303792.1475121792191@mail.yahoo.com<mailto:1367266947.1303792.1475121792191@mail.yahoo.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Late to the party but I can't believe the sheet metal valve covers are "pushing down" with ~4.5 tons of force.? Visualize lifting a 4.5 ton vehicle off the ground by?one valve cover ( hook a hoist to the oil filler hole ? )
I mean, come on.
GD

      From: "Joseph F. Byrd, Jr." <byrdjf@embarqmail.com<mailto:byrdjf@embarqmail.com>>
To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 8:32 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Fwd: Re: Oil Leak Fixed. What Torque?

Not something I worked with, BUT
Assuming the valve cover gasket has an effective diameter of 23? and 0.3?
wide.
Using neoprene cork with 30% compression at 400 psi loading
The torque to provide 30% compression would be 4.7 ft-lbs.
Given the gasket will be compressing as the next bolt is tighten, several
passes at desired torque till no rotation would be needed.
Each of the 8 bolts would be pushing down 1,100 lbf for a total of 8,900 lbf
per valve cover
The ?normal? ?-20 torque resulting in a bolt loading of 45Kpsi (high grade
bolt) would be 6.3 ft-lbs?

Sort of a rule of thumb I have observed, If allen, using a long key with the
short arm for torquing, using the thumb and index finger only provides the
max torque

Sorry for my ramblings,

Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf
Of Joseph F. Byrd, Jr.
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 20:01 PM
To: 'detomasolist'
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Fwd: Re: Oil Leak Fixed. What Torque?

I haven't been able to find on line, so if someone knows the dimensions of a
valve cover gasket (length, width, width) I would appreciate.

I am now curious and need to calculate!

BTW, 10ft-lbs just for a 1/4-20 seems pretty high.? That should have the
bolt torque sufficient to prevent backing off (once retorqued after gasket
relaxed)

-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf
Of Dave Londry
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 19:24 PM
To: detomasolist
Subject: [DeTomaso] Fwd: Re: Oil Leak Fixed. What Torque?

My collection of other peoples Torque info, these 2 agree at 10 ft.lb.

Needs a 1/4 drive torque wrench - you're in the weeds with the tension
spring fully unwound if you use 3/8.
(I have a bunch nor added yet - another roundtuit job)

Dave

On 2016-09-14 12:36 PM, Himes, Terry (397C) wrote:
? ? Hey Pantera Guru's,
? ? I finally got to my Pantera last night. (work is getting in the way of
? ? my fun!!)
? ? Simple fix.? ALL my valve cover bolts were loose.? Every one of them.
? ? I tightened them all
? ? but didn't want to over tighten them.? Anyone know what the correct
? ? torque should be?
? ? I have roller rockers and the taller Ford Racing valve covers for
? ? clearance.
? ? Your thoughts?
? ? Terry

? ? "A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan,

? ? ? stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!"

? ? Terry W. Himes

? ? JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory

? ? Dawn Spacecraft Team

? ? Rosetta Sequence Team Lead

? ? Phone: (818) 393-6261

? ? Cell:? ? (818) 653-8213

? ? Fax:? ? (818) 393-3147

? ? [1]thimes@jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:thimes@jpl.nasa.gov>

References

? ? 1.mailto:thimes@jpl.nasa.gov

_______________________________________________

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-------------- next part --------------
   Late to the party but I can't believe the sheet metal valve covers are
   "pushing down" with ~4.5 tons of force.  Visualize lifting a 4.5 ton
   vehicle off the ground by one valve cover ( hook a hoist to the oil
   filler hole ? )
   I mean, come on.
   GD
     __________________________________________________________________

   From: "Joseph F. Byrd, Jr." <byrdjf@embarqmail.com<mailto:byrdjf@embarqmail.com>>
   To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
   Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 8:32 PM
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Fwd: Re: Oil Leak Fixed. What Torque?
   Not something I worked with, BUT
   Assuming the valve cover gasket has an effective diameter of 23a and
   0.3a
   wide.
   Using neoprene cork with 30% compression at 400 psi loading
   The torque to provide 30% compression would be 4.7 ft-lbs.
   Given the gasket will be compressing as the next bolt is tighten,
   several
   passes at desired torque till no rotation would be needed.
   Each of the 8 bolts would be pushing down 1,100 lbf for a total of
8,900 lbf
   per valve cover
   The anormala A 1/4-20 torque resulting in a bolt loading of 45Kpsi
   (high grade
   bolt) would be 6.3 ft-lbs
   Sort of a rule of thumb I have observed, If allen, using a long key
   with the
   short arm for torquing, using the thumb and index finger only provides
   the
max torque
   Sorry for my ramblings,
   Joe
   -----Original Message-----
  From: DeTomaso [mailto:[1]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On
   Behalf
   Of Joseph F. Byrd, Jr.
   Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 20:01 PM
   To: 'detomasolist'
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Fwd: Re: Oil Leak Fixed. What Torque?
   I haven't been able to find on line, so if someone knows the dimensions
   of a
   valve cover gasket (length, width, width) I would appreciate.
   I am now curious and need to calculate!
   BTW, 10ft-lbs just for a 1/4-20 seems pretty high.  That should have
   the
   bolt torque sufficient to prevent backing off (once retorqued after
   gasket
   relaxed)
   -----Original Message-----
   From: DeTomaso [mailto:[2]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On
   Behalf
   Of Dave Londry
   Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 19:24 PM
   To: detomasolist
   Subject: [DeTomaso] Fwd: Re: Oil Leak Fixed. What Torque?
   My collection of other peoples Torque info, these 2 agree at 10 ft.lb.
   Needs a 1/4 drive torque wrench - you're in the weeds with the tension
   spring fully unwound if you use 3/8.
   (I have a bunch nor added yet - another roundtuit job)
   Dave
   On 2016-09-14 12:36 PM, Himes, Terry (397C) wrote:
   them.
   the links above.
...
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
...
Hey Pantera Guru's,
   I finally got to my Pantera last night. (work is getting in the
   way of
   my fun!!)
   Simple fix.  ALL my valve cover bolts were loose.  Every one of
...
I tightened them all
   but didn't want to over tighten them.  Anyone know what the
   correct
   torque should be?
   I have roller rockers and the taller Ford Racing valve covers for
   clearance.
   Your thoughts?
   Terry
"A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan,
stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!"
Terry W. Himes
JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Dawn Spacecraft Team
Rosetta Sequence Team Lead
Phone: (818) 393-6261
Cell:    (818) 653-8213
Fax:    (818) 393-3147
[1][5]thimes@jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:thimes@jpl.nasa.gov>
References
1.mailto:[6]thimes@jpl.nasa.gov
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------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2016 00:50:28 -0400
From: "Joseph F. Byrd, Jr." <byrdjf@embarqmail.com<mailto:byrdjf@embarqmail.com>>
To: <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Fwd: Re:  Oil Leak Fixed. What Torque?
Message-ID: <001601d21a0d$00beb180$023c1480$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Well, I have been known to provide answers with gross errors just to see if any one actually cares.

I just plugged the bolt sizes into calc sheet I had used for other gasketed joints.  But as a sanity check here is a generic torque/clamping load chart for small bolts including ? 20

http://www.spaenaur.com/pdf/sectionD/D48.pdf

Joe/5177

From: Guido deTomaso [mailto:guido_detomaso@prodigy.net]
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 0:03 AM
To: Joseph F. Byrd, Jr.; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Fwd: Re: Oil Leak Fixed. What Torque?

Late to the party but I can't believe the sheet metal valve covers are "pushing down" with ~4.5 tons of force.  Visualize lifting a 4.5 ton vehicle off the ground by one valve cover ( hook a hoist to the oil filler hole ? )

I mean, come on.

GD

  _____

From: "Joseph F. Byrd, Jr." <byrdjf@embarqmail.com<mailto:byrdjf@embarqmail.com>>
To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 8:32 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Fwd: Re: Oil Leak Fixed. What Torque?

Not something I worked with, BUT
Assuming the valve cover gasket has an effective diameter of 23? and 0.3?
wide.
Using neoprene cork with 30% compression at 400 psi loading
The torque to provide 30% compression would be 4.7 ft-lbs.
Given the gasket will be compressing as the next bolt is tighten, several
passes at desired torque till no rotation would be needed.
Each of the 8 bolts would be pushing down 1,100 lbf for a total of 8,900 lbf
per valve cover
The ?normal? ?-20 torque resulting in a bolt loading of 45Kpsi (high grade
bolt) would be 6.3 ft-lbs

Sort of a rule of thumb I have observed, If allen, using a long key with the
short arm for torquing, using the thumb and index finger only provides the
max torque

Sorry for my ramblings,

Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf
Of Joseph F. Byrd, Jr.
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 20:01 PM
To: 'detomasolist'
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Fwd: Re: Oil Leak Fixed. What Torque?

I haven't been able to find on line, so if someone knows the dimensions of a
valve cover gasket (length, width, width) I would appreciate.

I am now curious and need to calculate!

BTW, 10ft-lbs just for a 1/4-20 seems pretty high.  That should have the
bolt torque sufficient to prevent backing off (once retorqued after gasket
relaxed)

-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf
Of Dave Londry
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 19:24 PM
To: detomasolist
Subject: [DeTomaso] Fwd: Re: Oil Leak Fixed. What Torque?

My collection of other peoples Torque info, these 2 agree at 10 ft.lb.

Needs a 1/4 drive torque wrench - you're in the weeds with the tension
spring fully unwound if you use 3/8.
(I have a bunch nor added yet - another roundtuit job)

Dave

On 2016-09-14 12:36 PM, Himes, Terry (397C) wrote:
    Hey Pantera Guru's,
    I finally got to my Pantera last night. (work is getting in the way of
    my fun!!)
    Simple fix.  ALL my valve cover bolts were loose.  Every one of them.
    I tightened them all
    but didn't want to over tighten them.  Anyone know what the correct
    torque should be?
    I have roller rockers and the taller Ford Racing valve covers for
    clearance.
    Your thoughts?
    Terry

    "A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan,

      stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!"

    Terry W. Himes

    JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory

    Dawn Spacecraft Team

    Rosetta Sequence Team Lead

    Phone: (818) 393-6261

    Cell:    (818) 653-8213

    Fax:    (818) 393-3147

    [1]thimes@jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:thimes@jpl.nasa.gov>

References

    1.mailto:thimes@jpl.nasa.gov

_______________________________________________

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-------------- next part --------------
   Well, I have been known to provide answers with gross errors just to
   see if any one actually cares.

   I just plugged the bolt sizes into calc sheet I had used for other
   gasketed joints.  But as a sanity check here is a generic
   torque/clamping load chart for small bolts including 1/4 20

   http://www.spaenaur.com/pdf/sectionD/D48.pdf

   Joe/5177

   From: Guido deTomaso [mailto:guido_detomaso@prodigy.net]
   Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 0:03 AM
   To: Joseph F. Byrd, Jr.; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Fwd: Re: Oil Leak Fixed. What Torque?

   Late to the party but I can't believe the sheet metal valve covers are
   "pushing down" with ~4.5 tons of force.  Visualize lifting a 4.5 ton
   vehicle off the ground by one valve cover ( hook a hoist to the oil
   filler hole ? )

   I mean, come on.

   GD

   _______________________________________________________________________

   From: "Joseph F. Byrd, Jr." <[1]byrdjf@embarqmail.com<mailto:byrdjf@embarqmail.com>>
   To: [2]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
   Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 8:32 PM
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Fwd: Re: Oil Leak Fixed. What Torque?

   Not something I worked with, BUT
   Assuming the valve cover gasket has an effective diameter of 23" and
   0.3"
   wide.
   Using neoprene cork with 30% compression at 400 psi loading
   The torque to provide 30% compression would be 4.7 ft-lbs.
   Given the gasket will be compressing as the next bolt is tighten,
   several
   passes at desired torque till no rotation would be needed.
   Each of the 8 bolts would be pushing down 1,100 lbf for a total of
8,900 lbf
   per valve cover
   The "normal" 1/4-20 torque resulting in a bolt loading of 45Kpsi (high
   grade
   bolt) would be 6.3 ft-lbs
   Sort of a rule of thumb I have observed, If allen, using a long key
   with the
   short arm for torquing, using the thumb and index finger only provides
   the
   max torque
   Sorry for my ramblings,
   Joe
   -----Original Message-----
   From: DeTomaso [mailto:[3]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On
   Behalf
   Of Joseph F. Byrd, Jr.
   Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 20:01 PM
   To: 'detomasolist'
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Fwd: Re: Oil Leak Fixed. What Torque?
   I haven't been able to find on line, so if someone knows the dimensions
   of a
   valve cover gasket (length, width, width) I would appreciate.
   I am now curious and need to calculate!
   BTW, 10ft-lbs just for a 1/4-20 seems pretty high.  That should have
   the
   bolt torque sufficient to prevent backing off (once retorqued after
   gasket
   relaxed)
   -----Original Message-----
   From: DeTomaso [mailto:[4]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On
   Behalf
   Of Dave Londry
   Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 19:24 PM
   To: detomasolist
   Subject: [DeTomaso] Fwd: Re: Oil Leak Fixed. What Torque?
   My collection of other peoples Torque info, these 2 agree at 10 ft.lb.
   Needs a 1/4 drive torque wrench - you're in the weeds with the tension
   spring fully unwound if you use 3/8.
   (I have a bunch nor added yet - another roundtuit job)
   Dave
   On 2016-09-14 12:36 PM, Himes, Terry (397C) wrote:
   them.
   the links above.
...
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any
   message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
   list.
   They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
   approve
   the archiving of list messages.

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   4. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com
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   7. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com
   8. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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  12. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso

------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2016 08:24:28 +0200
From: Patrick HALS <patrickhals@gmail.com<mailto:patrickhals@gmail.com>>
To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: [DeTomaso] Original EU GTS for sale in Germany
Message-ID:
<CAJvZtGtu0FYoNcaGkD6G85Stuhuk+yCsUajw-XaH=OCZABSY2w@mail.gmail.com<mailto:CAJvZtGtu0FYoNcaGkD6G85Stuhuk+yCsUajw-XaH=OCZABSY2w@mail.gmail.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Further to Mike Drew's post on the Forum, I informed about that red EU GTS
for sale at Thiesen in Hambourg. The manager is a real fan of panteras, and
has been racing factory 2873 at Le Mans Classic at least twice
The car was very clean, fully restored, and moderately priced for a Euro
GTS ( 119.000 euros, i.e. 133.500 USD )
The car sold in three days....
Best to all !
Patrick
Candy 2862 - ADA 9628 - EU GTS 2902
-------------- next part --------------
   Further to Mike Drew's post on the Forum, I informed about that red EU
   GTS for sale at Thiesen in Hambourg. The manager is a real fan of
   panteras, and has been racing factory 2873 at Le Mans Classic at least
   twice
   The car was very clean, fully restored, andA moderatelyA priced for a
   Euro GTS ( 119.000 euros, i.e. 133.500 USD )A
   The car sold in three days....A
   Best to all !A
   Patrick
   Candy 2862 - ADA 9628 - EU GTS 2902

------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2016 15:28:41 +0000 (UTC)
From: Brent Stewart <bjbstewart@yahoo.com<mailto:bjbstewart@yahoo.com>>
To: "detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>"
<detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Boyd Coddington 10-Spoke Wheels and Tires for
sale - Sale Pending
Message-ID: <1371617542.6826494.1475162921215@mail.yahoo.com<mailto:1371617542.6826494.1475162921215@mail.yahoo.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

.All,Thanks very much for all the interest! ?Perhaps I should have priced them a little higher :-).Anyway, I have a pending sale, but will let you know if anything changes..Thanks!brent.

    On Wednesday, September 28, 2016 6:24 PM, Mike Thomas <mbefthomas@comcast.net<mailto:mbefthomas@comcast.net>> wrote:

I know the tires will, so expect the wheels will.? That's what's in the
picture
That's $200 for the wheels - those tires ran me $997 installed at Discount
tires when I put them on 6328 last year.? Great tires, but not when it's
wet.

Mike Thomas
Pres., Panteras Northwest
Yellow '74 #6328

-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf
Of JFFR
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 3:20 PM
To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Boyd Coddington 10-Spoke Wheels and Tires for sale -
$1200

Will these wheels fit a stock body car? If so, I am interested.

_______________________________________________

Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
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-------------- next part --------------
  .
   All,
   Thanks very much for all the interest!  Perhaps I should have priced
   them a little higher :-)
   .
   Anyway, I have a pending sale, but will let you know if anything
   changes.
   .
   Thanks!
   brent
   .
   On Wednesday, September 28, 2016 6:24 PM, Mike Thomas
   <mbefthomas@comcast.net<mailto:mbefthomas@comcast.net>> wrote:
   I know the tires will, so expect the wheels will.  That's what's in the
   picture
   That's $200 for the wheels - those tires ran me $997 installed at
   Discount
   tires when I put them on 6328 last year.  Great tires, but not when
   it's
   wet.
   Mike Thomas
   Pres., Panteras Northwest
   Yellow '74 #6328
   -----Original Message-----
  From: DeTomaso [mailto:[1]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On
   Behalf
   Of JFFR
   Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 3:20 PM
   To: [2]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Boyd Coddington 10-Spoke Wheels and Tires for
   sale -
   $1200
   Will these wheels fit a stock body car? If so, I am interested.
   _______________________________________________
   Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not
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------------------------------

Subject: Digest Footer

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------------------------------

End of DeTomaso Digest, Vol 147, Issue 35
*****************************************

   Jack & Everyone (et al),
   Thanks for al the great feedback.  I have tightened the valve cover
   bolts to the "Mechanics Feel"
   specification.  (taking me back to my dad and working on Ford Fairlane
   289's while growing up).
   The oil leaks have stopped.  Weird that ALL bolts were loose.  I'll put
   that on my checklist now.
   I do not know what type of gasket was used when they rebuilt my engine.
    And Ed Hale Racing is
   out of business now.   By looking at the edges I can tell it is not
   cork and looks like a combo of
   rubber (neoprene?) and metal. Dunno?  Someday I will need to remove the
   valve covers.
   But for now, I'm going to "drive her like there's no tomorrow"  right?
    ;-)
   Terry

   "A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan,

    stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!"

   Terry W. Himes

   JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory

   Dawn Spacecraft Team

   Rosetta Sequence Team Lead

   Phone: (818) 393-6261

   Cell:     (818) 653-8213

   Fax:     (818) 393-3147

   [1]thimes@jpl.nasa.gov

   From: DeTomaso <[2]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com> on behalf
   of Jack DeRyke via DeTomaso <[3]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
   Reply-To: "[4]jderyke@aol.com" <[5]jderyke@aol.com>
   Date: Thursday, September 29, 2016 11:20 AM
   To: "[6]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com"
   <[7]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] DeTomaso Digest, Vol 147, Issue 35

   Terry, quite a bit of the 'required' torque depends on what valve cover
   gaskets you use. The old stand-by- cork- will slowly crush down close
   to each bolt even if correctly torqued, which not only produces leaks,
   retightening also will eventually pinch the gaskett into pieces, making
   reuse or further retightening impossible. Too little torque plus
   blow-by can blow sections of gasket outside the covers, or sometimes
   suck pieces inside. It also depends on what valve covers you have; the
   OEM sheet steel ones are extremely flexible and really need large
   oblong washers under each bolt to spread the load. Cast aluminum ones
   are heavier and more rigid so bolt torque is effectively spread out.
   Overtorquing cast covers will break the bolts.
   Neoprene gaskets can take a little more torque than cork before
   tightening will damage them. Its a toss-up as to whether the bolt will
   shear or the gasket will leak. Note- all the above also applies to oil
   pan gaskets.  A couple of companies offer pre-formed silicone gaskets
   that are (maybe) infinitely reusable with a little RTV on one side. One
   type is lined with metal to prevent suck-in or blow-outs. They are
   expensive.
   Good luck- J Deryke
   -----Original Message-----
   From: detomaso-request <[8]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com>
   To: detomaso <[9]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com>
   Sent: Thu, Sep 29, 2016 9:00 am
   Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 147, Issue 35
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      1. Re: Carb ([14]audionut@hushmail.com)
      2. Re: Fans and shroud (Jack Donahue)
      3. Boyd Coddington 10-Spoke Wheels and Tires for sale - $1200
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      5. Re: Boyd Coddington 10-Spoke Wheels and Tires for sale -
      $1200 (Mike Thomas)
      6. Beautiful Gr4 clone for sale (Mike Drew)
      7. Re: Fwd: Re:  Oil Leak Fixed. What Torque? (Guido deTomaso)
      8. Re: Fwd: Re:  Oil Leak Fixed. What Torque? (Joseph F. Byrd, Jr.)
      9. Original EU GTS for sale in Germany (Patrick HALS)
     10. Re: Boyd Coddington 10-Spoke Wheels and Tires for sale - Sale
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   ----------------------------------------------------------------------
   Message: 1
   Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2016 10:59:11 -0700
   From: [15]audionut@hushmail.com
   To: "Trip Owen" <[16]lance730@msn.com>,
   [17]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Carb
   Message-ID: <[18]20160928175911.7F6D84010F@smtp.hushmail.com>
   Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
   Just bolted on Larry Stock's (Pantera Parts Connection) Quick Fuel 650
   a few months ago and my stock motor loves it.  Didn't have to adjust a
   thing.
   Sent using Hushmail
   On September 27, 2016 at 3:29 PM, "Trip Owen"  wrote:Can someone
   suggest a carb. for stock 351 Cleveland with Edelbrock intake?  My old
   Holly is not delivering fuel -
   I know its getting there - checked front float, was not
   stuck.......did the usual - inline filter, pump check, carb.
   filter........
   don't want fancy upgrade - just plug and play is fine -
   Trip
   88' GT5S