On Dec 19, 2024, at 18:53, Julian Kift <julian_kift@hotmail.com <mailto:julian_kift@hotmail.com> > wrote:
164 tooth and personally I'd go with a billet steel flywheel for a street performance engine
Julian __________________________________________________________________
From: Dan <dan@excaliburre.com <mailto:dan@excaliburre.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2024 3:44 PM To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> > Subject: [DeTomaso] Flywheel material and tooth count?
Does anyone know what tooth count for the flywheel? And what is better for a performance street Pantera, steel or aluminum?
Thanks, Dan _______________________________________________
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Thanks Jack, I’ll re-read Larry’s reply, as I first read it quickly on my phone. Is there any viable reason to upgrade from the stock harmonic balancer as well? I had an ATI, but it also got misplaced over the years. Dan From: jderyke@aol.com <jderyke@aol.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2024 2:13 PM To: dnunn@telus.net; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com; Dan <dan@excaliburre.com> Cc: 'MICHAEL DREW' <mikeldrew@aol.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Re: Flywheel material and tooth count? As Larry Stock mentioned, a stock gray iron flywheel weighs 35-40 lbs. A n aluminum flywheel weighs 14-15 lbs. A lightened stock or custom steel flywheel weighs somewhere in between. Note that one internally balanced may be a little lighter due to the offset balance weights being removed. Note also that gray iron flywheels are well known to be unsafe above about 5500 rpms- and that was when they were new. YMMV On Tuesday, December 24, 2024 at 12:45:19 PM PST, Dan <dan@excaliburre.com <mailto:dan@excaliburre.com> > wrote: I've encountered chattering and such before but it was resolved at Southland Clutch in National City. This was about 15 years ago so I'm not super-clear on how they resolved it but I assume it was a matter of balancing. I believe I brought them the flywheel and clutch assembly. I think that was with a new Centerline billet flywheel. It's looking like the flywheel for The Winged Warrior got lost at a shop so I have to get a replacement. After reading all these helpful tips I'm still undecided between aluminum or steel. The Beast has aluminum and I love how it revs. But that's a full race engine with lightweight rods and "everything", all painstakingly balanced. The last flywheel in The Winged Warrior was billet steel, Centerline I believe. I liked the sound of the backpressure when you let off, but that's a reminder that it's quickly slowing the engine. For a street performance Pantera, maybe 400 hp, either might not make a big difference. Generally, lighter and faster sounds good, so aluminum I guess. What's the main benefit of steel? And what's wrong with the stock steel flywheel? Also, are the stock harmonic balancers ok? There are also the fluid type to help maintain balance, right? Dan -----Original Message----- From: dnunn@telus.net <mailto:dnunn@telus.net> <dnunn@telus.net <mailto:dnunn@telus.net> > Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2024 8:28 AM To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Cc: 'MICHAEL DREW' <mikeldrew@aol.com <mailto:mikeldrew@aol.com> >; julian_kift@hotmail.com <mailto:julian_kift@hotmail.com> ; dan@excaliburre.com <mailto:dan@excaliburre.com> Subject: Re: Flywheel material and tooth count? Mike, When I built the engine for 5165 (which now resides in the Jacksonville Sports Car Museum - https://www.jaxsportscarmuseum.com/gallery-1), I wanted it to rev as quickly as possible. Accordingly, I made sure the entire reciprocating assembly was as light at possible. I used a lightweight crank damper, lightened pistons and rods, gun-drilled crank throws, 157 tooth aluminum flywheel and a diaphragm pressure plate with an aluminum friction ring. The engine was internally balanced and had a solid roller cam, T&D shaft rockers, etc. It revved so fast it was difficult to keep off the rev limiter. I had none of the "buck and snort" you mentioned, when driving at low speed. I could easily drive at 2 mph in a parade or in stop and go traffic. Driving on and off a trailer was easy too. In fact, at parking lot speeds, it wasn't much different than when it was stock. This leads me to believe that the "buck and snort" you're describing is a tuning issue that is masked by a heavy flywheel. My 2 cents! Dave ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------- Dan, I was convinced to go for a Fidanza aluminum flywheel, and I think it's too light for the street. Yes, it makes the engine rev faster which is entertaining. But it, coupled with a fairly aggressive cam, makes the car buck and snort when trying to inch along at very low speed. I have to use the clutch and rev the engine far more than one might expect-almost like a smaller-displacement Ferrari. Lori's engine has a stock flywheel and has pleasingly truck-like characteristics at walking pace. An intermediate-weight flywheel would probably be the best bet. Mike Sent from my iPad the links above.
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On Dec 19, 2024, at 18:53, Julian Kift <[9]julian_kift@hotmail.com> wrote:
164 tooth and personally I'd go with a billet steel flywheel for a street performance engine
Julian __________________________________________________________________
From: Dan <[10]dan@excaliburre.com> Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2024 3:44 PM To: [11]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <[12]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: [DeTomaso] Flywheel material and tooth count?
Does anyone know what tooth count for the flywheel? And what is better for a performance street Pantera, steel or aluminum?
Thanks, Dan _______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list -- [13]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To unsubscribe send an email to [14]detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com
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They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. -----Original Message----- From: detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com> <detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com> > Sent: Friday, December 20, 2024 9:01 PM To: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 246, Issue 15 Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To subscribe or unsubscribe via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com> You can reach the person managing the list at detomaso-owner@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso-owner@server.detomasolist.com> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..." _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list -- detomaso@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To unsubscribe send an email to detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Thanks Jack, I’ll re-read Larry’s reply, as I first read it quickly on my phone. Is there any viable reason to upgrade from the stock harmonic balancer as well? I had an ATI, but it also got misplaced over the years. Dan From: jderyke@aol.com <jderyke@aol.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2024 2:13 PM To: dnunn@telus.net; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com; Dan <dan@excaliburre.com> Cc: 'MICHAEL DREW' <mikeldrew@aol.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Re: Flywheel material and tooth count? As Larry Stock mentioned, a stock gray iron flywheel weighs 35-40 lbs. A n aluminum flywheel weighs 14-15 lbs. A lightened stock or custom steel flywheel weighs somewhere in between. Note that one internally balanced may be a little lighter due to the offset balance weights being removed. Note also that gray iron flywheels are well known to be unsafe above about 5500 rpms- and that was when they were new. YMMV On Tuesday, December 24, 2024 at 12:45:19 PM PST, Dan <[1]dan@excaliburre.com> wrote: I've encountered chattering and such before but it was resolved at Southland Clutch in National City. This was about 15 years ago so I'm not super-clear on how they resolved it but I assume it was a matter of balancing. I believe I brought them the flywheel and clutch assembly. I think that was with a new Centerline billet flywheel. It's looking like the flywheel for The Winged Warrior got lost at a shop so I have to get a replacement. After reading all these helpful tips I'm still undecided between aluminum or steel. The Beast has aluminum and I love how it revs. But that's a full race engine with lightweight rods and "everything", all painstakingly balanced. The last flywheel in The Winged Warrior was billet steel, Centerline I believe. I liked the sound of the backpressure when you let off, but that's a reminder that it's quickly slowing the engine. For a street performance Pantera, maybe 400 hp, either might not make a big difference. Generally, lighter and faster sounds good, so aluminum I guess. What's the main benefit of steel? And what's wrong with the stock steel flywheel? Also, are the stock harmonic balancers ok? There are also the fluid type to help maintain balance, right? Dan -----Original Message----- From: [2]dnunn@telus.net <[3]dnunn@telus.net> Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2024 8:28 AM To: [4]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Cc: 'MICHAEL DREW' <[5]mikeldrew@aol.com>; [6]julian_kift@hotmail.com; [7]dan@excaliburre.com Subject: Re: Flywheel material and tooth count? Mike, When I built the engine for 5165 (which now resides in the Jacksonville Sports Car Museum - [8]https://www.jaxsportscarmuseum.com/gallery-1), I wanted it to rev as quickly as possible. Accordingly, I made sure the entire reciprocating assembly was as light at possible. I used a lightweight crank damper, lightened pistons and rods, gun-drilled crank throws, 157 tooth aluminum flywheel and a diaphragm pressure plate with an aluminum friction ring. The engine was internally balanced and had a solid roller cam, T&D shaft rockers, etc. It revved so fast it was difficult to keep off the rev limiter. I had none of the "buck and snort" you mentioned, when driving at low speed. I could easily drive at 2 mph in a parade or in stop and go traffic. Driving on and off a trailer was easy too. In fact, at parking lot speeds, it wasn't much different than when it was stock. This leads me to believe that the "buck and snort" you're describing is a tuning issue that is masked by a heavy flywheel. My 2 cents! Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- -------------------------------------- Dan, I was convinced to go for a Fidanza aluminum flywheel, and I think it's too light for the street. Yes, it makes the engine rev faster which is entertaining. But it, coupled with a fairly aggressive cam, makes the car buck and snort when trying to inch along at very low speed. I have to use the clutch and rev the engine far more than one might expect-almost like a smaller-displacement Ferrari. Lori's engine has a stock flywheel and has pleasingly truck-like characteristics at walking pace. An intermediate-weight flywheel would probably be the best bet. Mike Sent from my iPad the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. -----Original Message----- From: [15]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com <[16]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2024 9:01 PM To: [17]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 246, Issue 15 Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to [18]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [19]detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com You can reach the person managing the list at [20]detomaso-owner@server.detomasolist.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..." _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list -- [21]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To unsubscribe send an email to [22]detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:dan@excaliburre.com 2. mailto:dnunn@telus.net 3. mailto:dnunn@telus.net 4. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 5. mailto:mikeldrew@aol.com 6. mailto:julian_kift@hotmail.com 7. mailto:dan@excaliburre.com 8. https://www.jaxsportscarmuseum.com/gallery-1 9. mailto:julian_kift@hotmail.com 10. mailto:dan@excaliburre.com 11. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 12. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 13. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 14. mailto:detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com 15. mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 16. mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 17. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 18. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 19. mailto:detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com 20. mailto:detomaso-owner@server.detomasolist.com 21. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 22. mailto:detomaso-leave@server.detomasolist.com