I've said before that I'm leaving POCA when my membership expires - assuming I still feel the same way in December. I'm not going to make a dramatic exit. It's not like I'm selling my car or anything. I'm just not going to renew - simple as that. Reasons: 1. I don't like the way long-term members are being treated. They have put a lot of heart and soul into POCA. It's shameful how they have been treated. 2. I don't like the way Michael treats people that disagree with him. It reflects very poorly on POCA, and also on the board since the board lets him get away with it. 3. I don't like the discussions the board has in secrecy. If they are afraid to make those discussions public, they shouldn't have those discussions at all. 4. I don't want to receive mailings that are full of advertising. I receive a Porsche magazine and I used to receive one from the Viper Club. Both go in the trash, usually without being opened. I'm happy to see ads from the usual Pantera vendors, but gimme a break - seat covers? 5. I don't like the push for "you can't do XXX unless you are a fully paid member". I'm not suggesting that everything should be free, but it has gone too far. There are words for this. It's called being exclusive or inclusive. An inclusive club invites new and existing members to participate. An exclusive club says, "We don't want you or need you. You can only participate if you give us money." I know that isn't the intent, but that's how it is perceived. So, if there is a new Pantera owner that is considering joining the club, he can't go to a local club meeting until he pays $85? What about the website? You can't get past door #1 until you are a fully paid member? 6. There is no a local chapter near me. If I were still in Houston, I would stay in POCA - but only to support the local club. The national club does nothing for me. I know - I said I'm not making a dramatic exit, and then I listed 6 things. I only listed those things to help POCA deal with their problems. If I just left in December, POCA wouldn't know why I left. I'm not pissed or upset or anything like that. I'm disappointed, but that's about the extent of it. -- Will On 6/8/16 5:42 PM, "fastgrandma via DeTomaso" <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
WELL SAID, SCOTT!! THANK YOU! You got right down to the bare bones of the issue.
-----Original Message----- > From: DeTomaso [[2]mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of [3]cengles@cox.net > Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 12:28 PM > To: [4]steve@snclocks.com > Cc: detomaso detomaso > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA > > Dear Stephen, > > > > A philosophical response to the question: > "....what POCA does for me.." > > > What the new POCA does for you is to give you more value for your membership and a better membership experience. > > > What the old POCA did with volunteers and enthusiasts in the days before the internet, was to provide a nationwide > organization that aided and abetted information and experience about the > difficulties and joys of owning a Pantera. The bright eyed amateurs > would type out newsletters and mail them. The newsletters and the > Profiles improved with time, but they both
what we needed - as I did in the past. Today - well, 5332 is a dream to >> drive, and I have this forum. Tell me again what POCA does for me - >> other >> than to remind me that some folk make terrible leaders? >> >> Stephen Nelson >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: DeTomaso [[5]mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On >> Behalf >> Of Thomas TAP:rnblom >> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 1:36 AM >> To: [6]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA >> >> 1) You can't do much about family, love it or hate it. >> >> 2) If you have an issue with a colleague, step away, if it is with >> management, get a new job >> >> 3) If you have an issue with the current leadership in a club you pay >> to be >> part of, then quitting, even temporarily, would at least send a fairly >> strong message that something is wrong, or else the club may not be >> for you anymore. >> >> As I've said before, I will likely not renew my POCA membership when >> it is >> due, and if I were ten years younger I would also get a new job. >> >> Life's too short to having to deal with a*holes. >> >> Thomas >> >>> Den 2016-06-08 kl. 08:48, skrev Ed Mendez:
Quitting is only going to hurt the club and the people in it who love >>> you. >> We are all family here. Quit because of one person you don't agree >> with? >> Quit because of a family member you don't get along with? If we all >> did that >> none of us would be working in our day jobs, or have a family at all. >>> >>> I assume punch my brother in
>> On 8/06/2016, at 17:14, Stephen <[7]steve@snclocks.com> wrote: >>> Dear GoNancy Haney - I can readily understand your letting go of >>>> your POCA membership - right now the leadership is proving to be >>>> just plain polarizing. Just don't let go of this forum! And, one >>>> day, when hoof in mouth is not so rampant you can perhaps rejoin. >>>> >>>> Stephen Nelson >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [[8]mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On >>>> Behalf Of [9]gonancy@juno.com >>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 8:38 PM >>>> To: [10]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com >>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] POCA >>>> Dear Forum, >>>> Even though I've just been a lurker and occasional poster and >>>> spellcheck nazi on the Forum since its inception, I wanted to put it >>>> out to the Pantera Community that I will be letting Judy McCartney >>>> know that I am ending my membership in POCA effective immediately. >>>> That means my associate member, the Profiles Editor, will be leaving >>>> also. Mike has the June issue at
Judy -----Original Message----- From: Scott Couchman via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To: Effie Richards <erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com> Cc: detomaso detomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Wed, Jun 8, 2016 2:31 pm Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Effie, I don't know what you do or did for a living, but I'm curious if after say 20 years of doing your job, having the respect of all your peers, they suddenly brought someone new in to manage you that treated you like KaKa ( I think that was your word), didn't listen to your recommendations, tried to take away your tools, didn't include you in the meetings to decide how you would do your job, said hateful things to you......and OBTW DIDN'T PAY YOU ANYTHING! How long would you stay in that job? These folks stayed 6 MONTHS!! I think they should get a statue erected in their honor. I don't know you.....hopefully we will get a chance to meet and hear each other's Pantera story, and I agree we need to try to find a way out of the darkness we're in right now, but I don't think it's fair to challenge these two POCA stalwarts to "shift through dislikes and focus on the actual great benefits of this group". Your Pantera Brother :-) > On Jun 8, 2016, at 1:34 PM, Effie Richards <[1]erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com> wrote: > > I like your philosophical response, Chuck! > > Our first known philosophers, Aristoteles, Socrates and Sophocleous, were my ancestors! > The Greek word means "friend (or lover) of wise thoughts" and being Greek, please, please, ignore as much as you don't like and focus on the positive of this website. > > Where else can you find great guys who know the DeTomaso brand so well and love the car so much, they have become experts in its challenging mechanism! Focus on your "friends of wise thoughts" - the Pantera philosophers, their wealth of knowledge and their spirit of sharing such and forget the other stuff. > > I have been a "victim" of bullying, discrimination and other negative actions (as many of us have at times), but I stood strong, proud and determined to learn a new language and culture at 23 and succeed in a business world that was destined for men only at the time. If I had allowed "words" to stop me, I would be nothing now. > > Be a part of the great group of Pantera owners who are your friends and many times mentors. You have more to gain by staying. Be patient, shift though "kaka" and focus on the CAR! > I am amazed how quickly solutions/answers arrive from so many when you have a dilemma or a question about your car, whatever it may be. It is so impressive, isn't it? > > I'm not trying to convince anyone to do something they don't want to do. I am just pointing out that we can all shift through dislikes and focus on to the actual great benefits of this group. > > Respectfully, > Effie Richards provided a framework for > Pantera owners across the nation to benefit from their fellow members. > Outside of southern California, it was the only therapy for being the > "Lone Ranger" in Enid, Oklahoma, for example. With the incorporation > of the Vegas Rally, a national meeting provided the faces to connect > with the names and the opportunity to socialize and build relationships. > Finally, the old Forum extended that to the internet with the results > that we all are familiar with. > > Currently, the new POCA offers all the high tech > satisfaction of digital cable attainment of various and sundry benefits. > > Historically, the old POCA was the foundation of > the relationships and friendships and Pantera ownership that we have > today. > > > > Philosophically yours, Chuck Engles > > >> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 8:51 AM, Stephen wrote: >> >> I believe that Thomas gets to the heart of the issue with the current >> POCA >> leader. There have been a number of times that MS has responded to >> posts I >> put out on there on the previous forum in a way that made me wonder >> why I >> bothered to post at all. It took me a while to distinguish between >> the >> several Mikes that posted on the previous forum - it was the short one >> that >> I figured out first - and I quit reading his responses. Especially >> when I >> realized that he really doesn't know it all, and that his technical >> guidance >> was flawed as often as it was correct. >> >> I know that the short is doing his best to put together his idea of a >> better >> POCA site. And I know it will offer a lot. No doubt. NTL, his >> amazing >> ability to piss folks off with his truly marginal interpersonal skills >> is >> well known, and totally inappropriate for a person in his position. >> POCA is not this forum - and, well, vice versa. 3 years ago, when my >> wife >> and I bought 5332, I likely would have put up with the shorts crap to >> get the face, but he is still my brother and >>> that >> would really piss off my mom. >>> >>> Just saying. >>> >>> Better that maybe we all just step away from the computer screen for >>> a >> while, there's a whole big world out there. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus the printer's right now. It will be >>>> his >> last issue. >>>> As an aside, Mike couldn't even put his own profile on the POCA >>>> website, even though he's on the BOD, because he's an associate >>>> member, >> not a "true " >>>> member according to whomever it was that he contacted about it. How >>>> do you like that? Makes him sound like a second class citizen. >>>> >>>> It's been a great 25 years, >>>> GoNancy Haney >>>> >>>> P.S. I listened in on the last BOD meeting last week and it was all >>>> I could do to keep my mouth shut. A monumental effort on my part. I >>>> could not believe my ears sometimes at what MS was saying. He is a >>>> real >> piece of work. >>>> >>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>> Nextiva vFAX >>>> Why Do You Still Have An Old Fax Machine? >>>> >>>> [11]http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5757934166446134075b2st03v uc >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> >>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not >>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list >>>> [12]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com >>>> [13]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >>>> >>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, >>>> etc.) use the links above. >>>> >>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward >>>> any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of >>>> the >> list. >>>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or >>>> approve the archiving of list messages. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> >>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not >>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list >>>> [14]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com >>>> [15]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >>>> >>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, >>>> etc.) use >> the links above. >>>> >>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward >>>> any >> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the >> list. >> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or >> approve >> the archiving of list messages. >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> >>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not >>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list >>>> [16]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com >>>> [17]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >>>> >>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, >>>> etc.) use >> the links above. >>>> >>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward >>>> any >> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the >> list. >> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or >> approve >> the archiving of list messages. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA >> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes >> DeTomaso mailing list >> [18]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com >> [19]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >> >> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) >> use the links above. >> >> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any >> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the >> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive >> or approve the archiving of list messages. > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > [20]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > [21]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. > > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > [22]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > [23]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [24]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [25]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
References
1. mailto:erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com 2. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com? 3. mailto:cengles@cox.net 4. mailto:steve@snclocks.com 5. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com? 6. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 7. mailto:steve@snclocks.com 8. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com? 9. mailto:gonancy@juno.com 10. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 11. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5757934166446134075b2st03vuc 12. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 13. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 14. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 15. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 16. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 17. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 18. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 19. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 20. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 21. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 22. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 23. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 24. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 25. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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