Well Jim, I was going on the assumption that we were dealing with a drivable engine not one on crutches. Yes thick oil is an acceptable and needed cushionable band aid used by me and hundred of thousands of others. Though really thick oil should cause the bleed off pressure to be higher because as the bleed off piston opens to release calculated build up, thicker oil could cause enough resistance to flow. The impending exit port flow which will cause X psi not to bleed out/off fast enough which in turn keeps said pressure still in the oil galleys at a higher than calculated pressure. Not that 75 + - "5 atm @ 5k rpm" is a high pressure, it is just very common bled off pressure. Higher psi is always better as it can flush away trash, support higher bearing peak loads, break and wash kdown oil scum buildup as long as its pumped up heat is removed and the oil pump drive system can support it. Four or so years ago I wrote about doing a five year oil test on a Lamborghini Espada and the effects or not the many different oils gave. I used Mobil One 10-40, Castrol 20-50, GTX, Kendall 50, Castrol High Milage and Pentosin 10-40. I drive it about 600 miles a year, drive it like I stoled it, have an additional large Earls oil cooler and changed it once a year. No difference was found in hot-cold oil psi or oil and water temps with its original non-rebuilt 55,000 mile engine! The only difference was that Pentosin did stop all the normal Italian exhaust smoke caused by no seals on exhaust valve guides and or valve guide wear. Only believed reasons for smoke stoppage was that Pentosin has a high amount of ZDP and maybe that acted as a oil bondo type filler between the valves and guides. All I know is the idle and acceleration smoke left my car. Now all my cars and customer cars run on Pentosin oil. And going to a thicker oil in a tired engine will restore higher psi because of its slower flow and less leakage from bearing sides. Jeff Cobb- I pad W-225-343-7525 C-225-907-4514 On Sep 4, 2016, at 9:21 PM, Pantdino <pantdino@aol.com> wrote:
I assume you mean the weight of the oil does not affect the maximum 75psi bleed off point-- 75 psi is 75 psi, no matter the oil involved.
But thin oil in an old engine with large clearances can definitely give you pressure that is too low at hot idle. Going to a thicker oil should give you a higher pressure.
Jim
-----Original Message----- From: Jeff Cobb <jeffcobb1@me.com> To: Mike Thomas <mbefthomas@comcast.net>; Pantera Mail List <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Sat, Sep 3, 2016 5:02 pm Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil Pressure Gauge Part Deux - Mechanical Gauge Test
Mike,
Most engines are set to provide 15 psi ( 1 atmosphere ) every 1,000 rpm up to about a normal industry wide bled off at 75 psi about 5k rpm. Your hot idled oil psi seems higher than normal. Which is ok if you have a high oil volume instead of a higher pressure unit. Oil grades, brands, weights and synthetic or not truly do not make a difference in psi/rpms.
Jeff
On Sep 3, 2016, at 4:03 PM, Mike Thomas <mbefthomas@comcast.net> wrote:
Received the mechanical gauge from Mike Drew today (thanks Mike). Put it on and started the motor, and it reads 60 lbs. at start and warm up at 1500 RPM's, not much less at idle (~900 when the choke lets go(, and only a little more when I rev. That doesn't seem right. I would expect it to drop pretty low at idle.
Thoughts?
Mike Thomas
From: Richard Greenblum [mailto:richard@richardgreenblum.com]
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2016 7:19 PM To: Mike Thomas <mbefthomas@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil Pressure Gauge
Thanks Mike, I'm going to look him up. Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 2, 2016, at 18:43, Mike Thomas <[1]mbefthomas@comcast.net> wrote:
Rick Sanchez
From: Richard Greenblum [[2]mailto:richard@richardgreenblum.com] Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2016 5:53 PM To: Mike Thomas <[3]mbefthomas@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil Pressure Gauge
Know it well, the zip code is 78154. It's right outside San Antonio and next to Randolph AFB, where I was stationed for most of my Air Force Reserve career. About 60 miles from my house in Austin. I'm sure Michael Frazier knows him. Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 1, 2016, at 19:38, Mike Thomas <[4]mbefthomas@comcast.net> wrote:
Actually in a town called Schertz, not sure how close that is to you. Zip is 87154.
Mike
From: Richard Greenblum [[5]mailto:Richard@richardgreenblum.com] Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2016 7:41 AM To: Mike Thomas <[6]mbefthomas@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil Pressure Gauge
That wasn't me, Mike. If there's another Richard in Austin with a Pantera, I'd like to meet him!
Did you attend the Rally two years ago put on by Space City Panteras?
From: Mike Thomas <[7]mbefthomas@comcast.net> Date: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 at 22:17 To: Richard Greenblum <[8]richard@richardgreenblum.com> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Oil Pressure Gauge
Thanks Richard
Are you the same Richard in Texas who just bought my firewall cover?
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Greenblum [[9]mailto:richard@richardgreenblum.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 6:13 PM
To: Mike Thomas <[10]mbefthomas@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil Pressure Gauge
Mike, I obviously can't tell what your problem is from here, but mine did
that for a while. When I tapped on the glass sometimes it would start
working again, sometimes it wouldn't. Then it stopped and has been normal
for a while. I think it's obviously the gauge.
Richard
Austin, TX
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 31, 2016, at 19:26, Mike Thomas <[11]mbefthomas@comcast.net> wrote:
I'm trying to figure out why I'm getting a pegged reading on my oil
pressure gauge. It will show normal pressure as the car starts, but
soon after pegs to the right and stays there. Everything runs fine
otherwise. I've swapped out the pressure sender, NAPA OP6091, and
it's still pegging, so I'm suspecting the gauge. Anything else I could
check?
Thanks
Mike Thomas
Pres., Panteras Northwest
Yellow '74 #6328
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Received the mechanical gauge from Mike Drew today (thanks Mike). Put it on and started the motor, and it reads 60 lbs. at start and warm up at 1500 RPM's, not much less at idle (~900 when the choke lets go(, and only a little more when I rev. That doesn't seem right. I would expect it to drop pretty low at idle.
Thoughts?
Mike Thomas
From: Richard Greenblum [[6]mailto:richard@richardgreenblum.com]
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2016 7:19 PM To: Mike Thomas <[7]mbefthomas@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil Pressure Gauge
Thanks Mike, I'm going to look him up. Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 2, 2016, at 18:43, Mike Thomas <[1][8]mbefthomas@comcast.net> wrote:
Rick Sanchez
From: Richard Greenblum [[2][9]mailto:richard@richardgreenblum.com] Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2016 5:53 PM To: Mike Thomas <[3][10]mbefthomas@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil Pressure Gauge
Know it well, the zip code is 78154. It's right outside San Antonio and next to Randolph AFB, where I was stationed for most of my Air Force Reserve career. About 60 miles from my house in Austin. I'm sure Michael Frazier knows him. Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 1, 2016, at 19:38, Mike Thomas <[4][11]mbefthomas@comcast.net> wrote:
Actually in a town called Schertz, not sure how close that is to you. Zip is 87154.
Mike
From: Richard Greenblum [[5][12]mailto:Richard@richardgreenblum.com] Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2016 7:41 AM To: Mike Thomas <[6][13]mbefthomas@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil Pressure Gauge
That wasn't me, Mike. If there's another Richard in Austin with a Pantera, I'd like to meet him!
Did you attend the Rally two years ago put on by Space City Panteras?
From: Mike Thomas <[7][14]mbefthomas@comcast.net> Date: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 at 22:17 To: Richard Greenblum <[8][15]richard@richardgreenblum.com> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Oil Pressure Gauge
Thanks Richard
Are you the same Richard in Texas who just bought my firewall cover?
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Greenblum [[9][16]mailto:richard@richardgreenblum.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 6:13 PM
To: Mike Thomas <[10][17]mbefthomas@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil Pressure Gauge
Mike, I obviously can't tell what your problem is from here, but mine did
that for a while. When I tapped on the glass sometimes it would start
working again, sometimes it wouldn't. Then it stopped and has been normal
for a while. I think it's obviously the gauge.
Richard
Austin, TX
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 31, 2016, at 19:26, Mike Thomas <[11][18]mbefthomas@comcast.net> wrote:
I'm trying to figure out why I'm getting a pegged reading on my oil
pressure gauge. It will show normal pressure as the car starts, but
soon after pegs to the right and stays there. Everything runs fine
otherwise. I've swapped out the pressure sender, NAPA OP6091, and
it's still pegging, so I'm suspecting the gauge. Anything else I could
check?
Thanks
Mike Thomas
Pres., Panteras Northwest
Yellow '74 #6328
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not
exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
[12][19]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com
[13][20]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
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They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve
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References
1. [21]mailto:mbefthomas@comcast.net 2. [22]mailto:richard@richardgreenblum.com 3. [23]mailto:mbefthomas@comcast.net 4. [24]mailto:mbefthomas@comcast.net 5. [25]mailto:Richard@richardgreenblum.com 6. [26]mailto:mbefthomas@comcast.net 7. [27]mailto:mbefthomas@comcast.net 8. [28]mailto:richard@richardgreenblum.com 9. [29]mailto:richard@richardgreenblum.com 10. [30]mailto:mbefthomas@comcast.net 11. [31]mailto:mbefthomas@comcast.net 12. [32]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 13. [33]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [34]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [35]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
Well Jim, I was going on the assumption that we were dealing with a drivable engine not one on crutches. Yes thick oil is an acceptable and needed cushionable band aid used by me and hundred of thousands of others. Though really thick oil should cause the bleed off pressure to be higher because as the bleed off piston opens to release calculated build up, thicker oil could cause enough resistance to flow. The impending exit port flow which will cause X psi not to bleed out/off fast enough which in turn keeps said pressure still in the oil galleys at a higher than calculated pressure. Not that 75 + - "5 atm @ 5k rpm" is a high pressure, it is just very common bled off pressure. Higher psi is always better as it can flush away trash, support higher bearing peak loads, break and wash kdown oil scum buildup as long as its pumped up heat is removed and the oil pump drive system can support it. Four or so years ago I wrote about doing a five year oil test on a Lamborghini Espada and the effects or not the many different oils gave. I used Mobil One 10-40, Castrol 20-50, GTX, Kendall 50, Castrol High Milage and Pentosin 10-40. I drive it about 600 miles a year, drive it like I stoled it, have an additional large Earls oil cooler and changed it once a year. No difference was found in hot-cold oil psi or oil and water temps with its original non-rebuilt 55,000 mile engine! The only difference was that Pentosin did stop all the normal Italian exhaust smoke caused by no seals on exhaust valve guides and or valve guide wear. Only believed reasons for smoke stoppage was that Pentosin has a high amount of ZDP and maybe that acted as a oil bondo type filler between the valves and guides. All I know is the idle and acceleration smoke left my car. Now all my cars and customer cars run on Pentosin oil. And going to a thicker oil in a tired engine will restore higher psi because of its slower flow and less leakage from bearing sides. Jeff Cobb- I pad W-225-343-7525 C-225-907-4514 On Sep 4, 2016, at 9:21 PM, Pantdino <[1]pantdino@aol.com> wrote: I assume you mean the weight of the oil does not affect the maximum 75psi bleed off point-- 75 psi is 75 psi, no matter the oil involved. But thin oil in an old engine with large clearances can definitely give you pressure that is too low at hot idle. Going to a thicker oil should give you a higher pressure. Jim -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Cobb <[2]jeffcobb1@me.com> To: Mike Thomas <[3]mbefthomas@comcast.net>; Pantera Mail List <[4]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Sat, Sep 3, 2016 5:02 pm Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil Pressure Gauge Part Deux - Mechanical Gauge Test Mike, Most engines are set to provide 15 psi ( 1 atmosphere ) every 1,000 rpm up to about a normal industry wide bled off at 75 psi about 5k rpm. Your hot idled oil psi seems higher than normal. Which is ok if you have a high oil volume instead of a higher pressure unit. Oil grades, brands, weights and synthetic or not truly do not make a difference in psi/rpms. Jeff On Sep 3, 2016, at 4:03 PM, Mike Thomas <[5]mbefthomas@comcast.net> wrote: list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [36]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [37]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:pantdino@aol.com 2. mailto:jeffcobb1@me.com 3. mailto:mbefthomas@comcast.net 4. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 5. mailto:mbefthomas@comcast.net 6. mailto:richard@richardgreenblum.com? 7. mailto:mbefthomas@comcast.net 8. mailto:mbefthomas@comcast.net 9. mailto:richard@richardgreenblum.com? 10. mailto:mbefthomas@comcast.net 11. mailto:mbefthomas@comcast.net 12. mailto:Richard@richardgreenblum.com? 13. mailto:mbefthomas@comcast.net 14. mailto:mbefthomas@comcast.net 15. mailto:richard@richardgreenblum.com 16. mailto:richard@richardgreenblum.com? 17. mailto:mbefthomas@comcast.net 18. mailto:mbefthomas@comcast.net 19. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 20. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 21. mailto:mbefthomas@comcast.net? 22. mailto:richard@richardgreenblum.com? 23. mailto:mbefthomas@comcast.net? 24. mailto:mbefthomas@comcast.net? 25. mailto:Richard@richardgreenblum.com? 26. mailto:mbefthomas@comcast.net? 27. mailto:mbefthomas@comcast.net? 28. mailto:richard@richardgreenblum.com? 29. mailto:richard@richardgreenblum.com? 30. mailto:mbefthomas@comcast.net? 31. mailto:mbefthomas@comcast.net? 32. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 33. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 34. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 35. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 36. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 37. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso