Follow up on my post of my Dennis Q / Ron Davis set up, I am not using side shrouds. I just ran SORC's 53 miles in the 105 class and had speeds to 140. I never caught the temperate reading even 200 . RPM's saw over 5,500 often and at times longer than I like. Also I finished 1st in the Loup 2 Loup 80 mph class. You can't trade me out of this radiator. I feel the cost to be money well spent. Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be ! ) From: Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To: demongusta@gmail.com; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 4:03 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiator Dilemma Hey all - I need some good advice on radiators. I currently have a Fluidyne performance unit without a shroud. I've been told that a shroud is a necessity, which I understand. >>>Not to put too fine a point on it, but that is not strictly true. It all depends on the configuration of your radiator currently. Do you have it in the stock position, with pusher fans? If so, the car came from the factory with two side pieces and a top cover, which helped ensure all air flowing through the grille would be forced through the radiator and not spill around the sides. If you don't have those, you definitely owe it to yourself to get them. Do you have your radiator tilted forward, with sucker fans? If so, it's still important to shroud the sides and top as much as possible. Aftermarket sucker fans are pretty powerful, and while there is perhaps something to be gained by fitting the back side of the radiator with an all-encompassing shroud, there is also something to be lost, as at high speeds the air can stagnate because it can't escape quickly enough due to the blockage formed by the shroud. Johnny Woods uses Flex-A-Lite sucker fans with integral shroud on his car, and he experienced high-speed overheating that he attributed to this problem. He cut holes in the shroud and fitted hinged flaps that blow up when the pressure behind the radiator becomes excessive, and that fixed his problem completely. >I've had it for about 12 years now - no leaks. >>>Be very happy. They have been known to leak, especially the early ones. Sometimes the radiator is so large that it physically touches the body, and when the body flexes it bends the radiator and causes it to leak. As long as it is properly mounted, with rubber isolation both at the bottom and the sides, it should be fine. So if you have a radiator that isn't leaking, why are you talking about changing it? The Fluidyne radiator is more than you need, as long as the system is properly bled and the fans are working etc. So what exactly are we talking about here? >The rumblings on The List lean towards a unit by Dennis Quella(?) - don't know the correct spelling or the company, but the last I had read from someone was just to get his radiator and abe done with ita. >>>That was, I thought, a laughable suggestion to spend $2000 to fix a $200 problem, of a perfectly good radiator that had sprung a leak and just needed to be repaired (which it subsequently was). >I think it was a double-pass (I guess that's good) - and I assume it's shrouded. >>>The DQ radiator made by Ron Dennis is fantastic, no doubt. >Another side of me asks - which is better - copper or aluminum? And Why? >>>Aluminum's chief advantage is that it is lighter. However, the disadvantage is (supposedly) that it doesn't shed heat as well, so for equal heat-shedding performance, an aluminum radiator needs to be made larger, which means it holds more water, which means you gain back much of the weight you supposedly saved once it's in the car. The chief disadvantage of aluminum is that they are normally not repairable. The discussion last week centered around a high-quality brass Hall radiator that had sprung a leak; a crooked shop quoted $600 to repair it which is as much as it costs to replace it. He took it to an honest shop and they totally restored it for $250. When you are driving down the road and your radiator springs a leak far from home, you can normally get a brass radiator repaired locally without much trouble. When an aluminum radiator picks up a rock and springs a leak, you take it out and throw it away. :<( > I know the copper units are heavier, but I am not concerned about extra weight. I am familiar with the company - Brassworks - they have been at it since the early 1900's. Ken and Lela MacArthur had mentioned Brassworks in July. So - here we go - I know the discussion will generate a fair amount of opinions - which I always welcome, since it will generate more questions too. Looking forward to hearing from all the experts - i know you are out there. >>>You will likely get differing opinions, and that's fine. However, I would say that you are talking about replacing your radiator without first identifying exactly WHY you are talking about replacing it? If your Fluidyne was leaking, that would be an automatic response. But if it's not leaking, what is your issue? Overheating at slow speeds but cools fine when going down the road? That's either poor fan performance, wrong thermostat (Windsor instead of Cleveland), or air in the system. Overheating all the time, even when going down the road? Almost assuredly air in the system. Neither condition requires a radiator change. If you had a stock, original radiator that was visibly leaking and whose fins had separated from the core, for sure you would want to replace it. As it is, IF you even have a problem, it's a maintenance issue. In fact, changing the radiator is likely to make the problem worse, not better, if when you refill it you don't bleed it properly. So please, tell us exactly what is prompting this discussion. Cheers! Mike _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Follow up on my post of my Dennis Q / Ron Davis set up, I am not using side shrouds. I just ran SORC's 53 miles in the 105 class and had speeds to 140. I never caught the temperate reading even 200 . RPM's saw over 5,500 often and at times longer than I like. Also I finished 1st in the Loup 2 Loup 80 mph class. You can't trade me out of this radiator. I feel the cost to be money well spent. Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be ! ) __________________________________________________________________ From: Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> To: demongusta@gmail.com; detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 4:03 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiator Dilemma Hey all - I need some good advice on radiators. I currently have a Fluidyne performance unit without a shroud. I've been told that a shroud is a necessity, which I understand. >>>Not to put too fine a point on it, but that is not strictly true. It all depends on the configuration of your radiator currently. Do you have it in the stock position, with pusher fans? If so, the car came from the factory with two side pieces and a top cover, which helped ensure all air flowing through the grille would be forced through the radiator and not spill around the sides. If you don't have those, you definitely owe it to yourself to get them. Do you have your radiator tilted forward, with sucker fans? If so, it's still important to shroud the sides and top as much as possible. Aftermarket sucker fans are pretty powerful, and while there is perhaps something to be gained by fitting the back side of the radiator with an all-encompassing shroud, there is also something to be lost, as at high speeds the air can stagnate because it can't escape quickly enough due to the blockage formed by the shroud. Johnny Woods uses Flex-A-Lite sucker fans with integral shroud on his car, and he experienced high-speed overheating that he attributed to this problem. He cut holes in the shroud and fitted hinged flaps that blow up when the pressure behind the radiator becomes excessive, and that fixed his problem completely. >I've had it for about 12 years now - no leaks. >>>Be very happy. They have been known to leak, especially the early ones. Sometimes the radiator is so large that it physically touches the body, and when the body flexes it bends the radiator and causes it to leak. As long as it is properly mounted, with rubber isolation both at the bottom and the sides, it should be fine. So if you have a radiator that isn't leaking, why are you talking about changing it? The Fluidyne radiator is more than you need, as long as the system is properly bled and the fans are working etc. So what exactly are we talking about here? >The rumblings on The List lean towards a unit by Dennis Quella(?) - don't know the correct spelling or the company, but the last I had read from someone was just to get his radiator and abe done with ita. >>>That was, I thought, a laughable suggestion to spend $2000 to fix a $200 problem, of a perfectly good radiator that had sprung a leak and just needed to be repaired (which it subsequently was). >I think it was a double-pass (I guess that's good) - and I assume it's shrouded. >>>The DQ radiator made by Ron Dennis is fantastic, no doubt. >Another side of me asks - which is better - copper or aluminum? And Why? >>>Aluminum's chief advantage is that it is lighter. However, the disadvantage is (supposedly) that it doesn't shed heat as well, so for equal heat-shedding performance, an aluminum radiator needs to be made larger, which means it holds more water, which means you gain back much of the weight you supposedly saved once it's in the car. The chief disadvantage of aluminum is that they are normally not repairable. The discussion last week centered around a high-quality brass Hall radiator that had sprung a leak; a crooked shop quoted $600 to repair it which is as much as it costs to replace it. He took it to an honest shop and they totally restored it for $250. When you are driving down the road and your radiator springs a leak far from home, you can normally get a brass radiator repaired locally without much trouble. When an aluminum radiator picks up a rock and springs a leak, you take it out and throw it away. :<( > I know the copper units are heavier, but I am not concerned about extra weight. I am familiar with the company - Brassworks - they have been at it since the early 1900's. Ken and Lela MacArthur had mentioned Brassworks in July. So - here we go - I know the discussion will generate a fair amount of opinions - which I always welcome, since it will generate more questions too. Looking forward to hearing from all the experts - i know you are out there. >>>You will likely get differing opinions, and that's fine. However, I would say that you are talking about replacing your radiator without first identifying exactly WHY you are talking about replacing it? If your Fluidyne was leaking, that would be an automatic response. But if it's not leaking, what is your issue? Overheating at slow speeds but cools fine when going down the road? That's either poor fan performance, wrong thermostat (Windsor instead of Cleveland), or air in the system. Overheating all the time, even when going down the road? Almost assuredly air in the system. Neither condition requires a radiator change. If you had a stock, original radiator that was visibly leaking and whose fins had separated from the core, for sure you would want to replace it. As it is, IF you even have a problem, it's a maintenance issue. In fact, changing the radiator is likely to make the problem worse, not better, if when you refill it you don't bleed it properly. So please, tell us exactly what is prompting this discussion. Cheers! Mike _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [1]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [2]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 2. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso