Dear AJ, I have always respected you and your opinions but in this case you are incorrect as far as the resignation of Jack DeRyke. I was on the Board of Directors' conference call where he was asked to stay and he adamantly refused to if the printer changed. Jack's resignation was specifically because of the change in printer! You can go research that phone conference call, or the minutes of the meeting, as the facts are saved. As far as Mike Haney's resignation, that was done by his Mrs. for their reasons which most likely were aligned with their parents. Laurie In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? asajay@asajay.com writes: The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.? However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the member's profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the board will? look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out of the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa? Jay Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired &? Shelley? Mar -----Original Message----- From: detomaso-request <detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com> To: detomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:00 am Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue 20 Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com You can reach the person managing the list at detomaso-owner@server.detomasolist.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..." Daily Detomaso List Digest Today's Topics: 1. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (marshallgsmith) 2. Re: De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! again $250K!! (Michael Cox) 3. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (Stephen) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:27:43 -0700 From: marshallgsmith <marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net> To: P6746@aol.com, asajay@asajay.com, detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic Message-ID: <sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405@email.android.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I have a couple questions Bob:
Calling this situation "multiple dues levels" seems to be making the issue too complex. There are some members that are opting to not have printed magazines mailed which should make those members eligible for a discount because of the savings. What is your estimate of the length of time that it would take the board to arrange for a vote of the membership to change the bylaws to allow for this discount? Who specifically made that apples-to-apples comparison you refer to? I agree that the editors should have the most influence ?on the process. ?However, our editors of both publications seem to have a hard time reporting to the members about ANY issues pertaining to the publication's themselves. Might that change in the near future or will radio silence be the norm here? Marshall Smith
Calling this situation "multiple dues levels" seems to be making the issue too complex. There are some members that are opting to not have
What is your estimate of the length of time that it would take the board to arrange for a vote of the membership to change the bylaws to allow for this discount? Who specifically made that apples-to-apples comparison you refer to? I agree that the editors should have the most influence ?on the
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00) To: asajay@asajay.com, detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic To use a cliche, we're working on it.? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.?? However, there are restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently? stand.? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels,? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or? amendments must be approved by the whole membership. The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would? continue as a print publication for all except foreign members who elect to? receive it digitally.? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is? so expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit? increases but not proportionately.?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online? printer and the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have? the most influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are? the ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular? basis. Bob Reid? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? asajay@asajay.com writes: The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.? However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the member's profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the board will? look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out of the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa? Jay Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired &? Shelley? Marie Spokane,? WA ****************************** http://w7tsc.org http://www.teampanteraracing.com _______________________________________________ Detomaso? Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5? Megabytes DeTomaso mailing? list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To? manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the? links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to? forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the? list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or? approve the archiving of list? messages. ?? To use a cliche, we're working on it. ?? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.? However, there are ?? restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently stand. ?? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels, ?? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club ?? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or ?? amendments must be approved by the whole membership. ?? The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would continue as a print ?? publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it ?? digitally. ?? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so ?? expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit ?? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit ?? increases but not proportionately. ?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer and ?? the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference ?? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run. ?? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have the most ?? influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are the ?? ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular ?? basis. ?? Bob Reid ?? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ?? asajay@asajay.com writes: ???? The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was ???? interested ???? in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for ???? me, ???? it's a wait and see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out ???? on ???? full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss. ???? However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs ???? properly.? I have more faith that the present board members will ???? properly investigate and sort it out for everyone. ???? I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's nice ???? to ???? just sit back and read a paper copy too.? It's also easier to ???? hand-off ???? to Sam so he can read it later.? How do you really fix that? ???? I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership ???? database might be able to include a "preference" as part of the ???? member's ???? profile or details.? Just as I can set an address and phone number, ???? if I ???? could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies, or both, ???? and ???? select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus Newsletter), ???? that might be ideal. ???? However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well ???? could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to ???? print ???? 50, or 10 (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the ???? board will look at as well. ???? Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from ???? more ???? than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA ???? changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter content that ???? in ???? essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For a guy that ???? appeared ???? to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and ???? it's ???? unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they ???? applied ???? to him. ???? For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers ???? -twice- ???? since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related to the DeRykes) got out ???? of ???? the business.? So the "family tie-in" previously eluded to, was not ???? a ???? factor in the resignations. ???? Just my $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) ???? Asa? Jay ???? Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired ???? &? Shelley Marie ???? Spokane, WA ???? ****************************** ???? http://w7tsc.org ???? http://www.teampanteraracing.com ???? _______________________________________________ ???? Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA ???? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes ???? DeTomaso mailing list ???? DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com ???? http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso ???? To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, ???? etc.) use the links above. ???? Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward ???? any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of ???? the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an ???? archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Dear AJ, I have always respected you and your opinions but in this case you are incorrect as far as the resignation of Jack DeRyke. I was on the Board of Directors' conference call where he was asked to stay and he adamantly refused to if the printer changed. Jack's resignation was specifically because of the change in printer! You can go research that phone conference call, or the minutes of the meeting, as the facts are saved. As far as Mike Haney's resignation, that was done by his Mrs. for their reasons which most likely were aligned with their parents. Laurie In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? [1]asajay@asajay.com writes: The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.? However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the member's profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the board will? look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out of the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa? Jay Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired &? Shelley? Mar -----Original Message----- From: detomaso-request <detomaso-request@server.detomasolist.com> To: detomaso <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:00 am Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue 20 Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to [2]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to detomaso-[4]request@server.detomasolist.com You can reach the person managing the list at detomaso-[5]owner@server.detomasolist.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..." Daily Detomaso List Digest Today's Topics: 1. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (marshallgsmith) 2. Re: De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! again $250K!! (Michael Cox) 3. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (Stephen) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:27:43 -0700 From: marshallgsmith <[6]marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net> To: [7]P6746@aol.com, [8]asajay@asajay.com, [9]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic Message-ID: <[10]sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405@email.android.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I have a couple questions Bob: printed magazines mailed which should make those members eligible for a discount because of the savings. process. ?However, our editors of both publications seem to have a hard time reporting to the members about ANY issues pertaining to the publication's themselves. Might that change in the near future or will radio silence be the norm here? Marshall Smith Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <[11]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00) To: [12]asajay@asajay.com, [13]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic To use a cliche, we're working on it.? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.?? However, there are restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently? stand.? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels,? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or? amendments must be approved by the whole membership. The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would? continue as a print publication for all except foreign members who elect to? receive it digitally.? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is? so expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit? increases but not proportionately.?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online? printer and the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have? the most influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are? the ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular? basis. Bob Reid? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? [14]asajay@asajay.com writes: The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me, it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out on full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.? However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone. I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that? I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the member's profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if I could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both, and select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter), that might be ideal. However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the board will? look at as well. Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from more than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that in essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that appeared to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they applied to him. For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers -twice- since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out of the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not a factor in the resignations. Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa? Jay Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired &? Shelley? Marie Spokane,? WA ****************************** [15]http://w7tsc.org [16]http://www.teampanteraracing.com _______________________________________________ Detomaso? Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5? Megabytes DeTomaso mailing? list [17]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [18]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To? manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the? links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to? forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the? list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or? approve the archiving of list? messages. ?? To use a cliche, we're working on it. ?? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.? However, there are ?? restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently stand. ?? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels, ?? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club ?? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or ?? amendments must be approved by the whole membership. ?? The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would continue as a print ?? publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it ?? digitally. ?? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so ?? expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit ?? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit ?? increases but not proportionately. ?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer and ?? the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference ?? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run. ?? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have the most ?? influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are the ?? ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular ?? basis. ?? Bob Reid ?? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ?? [19]asajay@asajay.com writes: ???? The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was ???? interested ???? in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for ???? me, ???? it's a wait and see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out ???? on ???? full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss. ???? However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs ???? properly.? I have more faith that the present board members will ???? properly investigate and sort it out for everyone. ???? I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's nice ???? to ???? just sit back and read a paper copy too.? It's also easier to ???? hand-off ???? to Sam so he can read it later.? How do you really fix that? ???? I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership ???? database might be able to include a "preference" as part of the ???? member's ???? profile or details.? Just as I can set an address and phone number, ???? if I ???? could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies, or both, ???? and ???? select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus Newsletter), ???? that might be ideal. ???? However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well ???? could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to ???? print ???? 50, or 10 (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the ???? board will look at as well. ???? Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from ???? more ???? than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA ???? changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter content that ???? in ???? essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For a guy that ???? appeared ???? to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and ???? it's ???? unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they ???? applied ???? to him. ???? For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers ???? -twice- ???? since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related to the DeRykes) got out ???? of ???? the business.? So the "family tie-in" previously eluded to, was not ???? a ???? factor in the resignations. ???? Just my $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation) ???? Asa? Jay ???? Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired ???? &? Shelley Marie ???? Spokane, WA ???? ****************************** ???? [20]http://w7tsc.org ???? [21]http://www.teampanteraracing.com ???? _______________________________________________ ???? Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA ???? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes ???? DeTomaso mailing list ???? [22]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com ???? [23]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso ???? To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, ???? etc.) use the links above. ???? Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward ???? any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of ???? the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an ???? archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [24]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com [25]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.