9 Jun
2016
9 Jun
'16
12:41 a.m.
Outstanding ! Congratulations ! > From: demongusta@gmail.com > Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 17:00:43 -0700 > To: will.kooiman@gmail.com > CC: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum > > I have the dubious distinction of being the longest standing member in the Porsche Club of America, and the sole Charter member - 61 years - whew - that went fast. I must say the Pantera group is a lot more personable than the Porsche group. > #4348 > > > On Jun 8, 2016, at 4:00 PM, Will Kooiman <will.kooiman@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > The Porsche club has over 100,000 members. > > > > The Ferrari club has over 6,000. > > > > It isn't exactly an apples-to-apples comparison. > > > > You need to consider what the reserves might be used for. Personally, I > > think $100,00 sounds about right, but I would just be guessing. I'd have > > to see a risk assessment to make an educated guess on an acceptable cash > > reserve. > > > > -- > > Will > > > > > > > > > > > > On 6/8/16 6:13 PM, "Ed Mendez" <edducati@mac.com> wrote: > > > >> The Ferrari and Porsche clubs have over $1,000,000 in reserves. Their > >> annual reports are available online. SCCA has more than that last time I > >> checked. > >> > >> Ed > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus > >> > >>> On 9/06/2016, at 05:51, Ken Green via DeTomaso > >>> <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote: > >>> > >>> You mean do something before someone burns though the cash reserve > >>> playing with their ideas of what a club should be. I heard the POCA > >>> cash reserve is over $100,000. I don't know anything about the > >>> typical > >>> size of cash reserves for car clubs, but that seems like a lot? > >>> Ken > >>> __________________________________________________________________ > >>> > >>> From: Dave <dave@damardirect.com> > >>> To: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <detomasoregistry@gmail.com> > >>> Cc: DeTomaso List <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> > >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 10:18 AM > >>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum > >>> Thank you Chuck for letting me know what has transpired within the > >>> organization. Thank you Kurt for the resurrection. > >>> It is interesting that the new POCA website forum is far behind this > >>> forum as far as popularity. It is also worth noting that technology, > >>> the "better", new format of the POCA, is suffering a lack of > >>> attendance > >>> or participation, compared to this site. The phrase "build it & they > >>> will come running" certainly does not sound like it is happening. So > >>> why is the old guard allowing this to happen? It seems so flagrant. I > >>> think I read a sentiment that in essence said, if you don't like the > >>> new structure, you are not needed. This is a car group, how do you > >>> censor or better, why would you threaten anyone who disagrees with > >>> expulsion? > >>> Seems there is the dominate group forcing the subordinate group to > >>> leave, the very definition of expulsion. > >>> I agree Chuck, so very sad. I would think change is needed sooner than > >>> later. > >>> Dave > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: The DeTomaso Registry Guy [mailto:[1]detomasoregistry@gmail.com] > >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 2:27 PM > >>> To: Dave > >>> Cc: DeTomaso List > >>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum > >>> Can someone enlighten me, please? > >>> I am/was under the impression this email list or forum was rescued > >>> from > >>> being dissolved by Kurt. (thank you Kurt) I was also under the > >>> impression this site was not part of or controlled by POCA.. > >>> Is this true? > >>> Thanks > >>> IndyDave > >>> Dave, > >>> You missed someone's good explanation of the list history. It was > >>> started long ago, and when it was time for the guy to move on, he > >>> allowed POCA to 'manage' it under certain conditions. > >>> Then recently MS decided it should be killed, favoring the POCA > >>> Board-like forum. > >>> Kurt Byrnes (sp ?) took responsibility and restarted it. > >>> Now, the list is 'freed from POCA'... THANKS Kurt! > >>> To use the POCA forum requires membership ($75 annually), it is > >>> censored for anti-POCA content, is no better than the GREAT (and free) > >>> PI Forum, actually much LESS than the PI Forum, and thus is not really > >>> used. > >>> And when newly-freed spirits discuss things 'here' some POCA people > >>> feel compelled to answer. > >>> Perhaps the POCA propaganda machine should re-evaluate their > >>> communications method. > >>> Or maybe Dave, you are adding your commentary too subtly for me (big > >>> grin). > >>> (Read between the lines ?!? What lines ?!? GRIN) > >>> Now... > >>> What caught my attention was a statement was made by the > >>> POCA-propaganda machine (PPM) regarding evaluation of alternate > >>> printers. > >>> How this was presented did seem reasonable (at first!). Yet Judy > >>> DeRyke > >>> (and/or others) commented on how the decision was actually made. This > >>> was refuted by the PPM. So someone felt it necessary to post just how > >>> POCA makes its decisions (well how Michael Shortt makes decisions for > >>> ALL POCA members) using an actual e-mail message as the > >>> fact/source/evidence. What better way to form an opinion than with > >>> facts, right? > >>> The posting of the facts was made by a non-POCA officer. > >>> He was then threatened with censure and being kicked out of the club > >>> for posting the evidence. WOW ! > >>> First, I do not believe the person posting the facts can or should be > >>> punished. He did not sign a statement or agree to ANY terms that he > >>> is > >>> in violation of. Challenging a lie is the right thing to do. If Mr. > >>> Shortt wants to try to punish anyone, it should be himself for not > >>> conveying the truth in the first place. > >>> While I am not passing judgment on any one suggestion for improvement > >>> of POCA, I do object to HOW things are done, and HOW people are being > >>> treated. > >>> More specifically how people who are not in full agreement with the > >>> current POCA president are being treated. Let everyone focus on that > >>>> one< issue. Correct that problem first, otherwise it will taint any > >>> and all (otherwise possibly good) suggestions for change within POCA. > >>> With the leak of this document, POCA members and non-members alike > >>> have > >>> been given insight into just how POCA is currently being run. How the > >>> PPM will respond will also be enlightening! > >>> Sad, quite sad. > >>> Here is an idea mentioned to me recently, perhaps if POCA wants to > >>> respond to statements, they could do so, but on their own website, and > >>> from their elected Public Relations guy (only), isn't that what the PR > >>> job entails? > >>> (Sorry to poke at Ed Mendez the current POCA PR guy, as he must have a > >>> REALLY tough job, being elected to be the official POCA voice, but > >>> having less-than-accurate statements made by the current POCA > >>> president > >>> as IF he is the sole POCA voice.) > >>> What a mess for the PR guy to be stuck with... > >>> Chuck > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > >>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > >>> DeTomaso mailing list > >>> [2]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > >>> [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > >>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) > >>> use the links above. > >>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any > >>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the > >>> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive > >>> or approve the archiving of list messages. > >>> > >>> References > >>> > >>> 1. mailto:detomasoregistry@gmail.com > >>> 2. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > >>> 3. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> > >>> > >>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > >>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > >>> DeTomaso mailing list > >>> DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > >>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > >>> > >>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) > >>> use the links above. > >>> > >>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any > >>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. > >>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or > >>> approve the archiving of list messages. > >> _______________________________________________ > >> > >> > >> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > >> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > >> DeTomaso mailing list > >> DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > >> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > >> > >> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use > >> the links above. > >> > >> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any > >> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. > >> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or > >> approve the archiving of list messages. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > > DeTomaso mailing list > > DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. > > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Outstanding ! Congratulations ! > From: demongusta@gmail.com > Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 17:00:43 -0700 > To: will.kooiman@gmail.com > CC: detomaso@server.detomasolist.com > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum > > I have the dubious distinction of being the longest standing member in the Porsche Club of America, and the sole Charter member - 61 years - whew - that went fast. I must say the Pantera group is a lot more personable than the Porsche group. > #4348 > > > On Jun 8, 2016, at 4:00 PM, Will Kooiman <will.kooiman@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > The Porsche club has over 100,000 members. > > > > The Ferrari club has over 6,000. > > > > It isn't exactly an apples-to-apples comparison. > > > > You need to consider what the reserves might be used for. Personally, I > > think $100,00 sounds about right, but I would just be guessing. I'd have > > to see a risk assessment to make an educated guess on an acceptable cash > > reserve. > > > > -- > > Will > > > > > > > > > > > > On 6/8/16 6:13 PM, "Ed Mendez" <edducati@mac.com> wrote: > > > >> The Ferrari and Porsche clubs have over $1,000,000 in reserves. Their > >> annual reports are available online. SCCA has more than that last time I > >> checked. > >> > >> Ed > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus > >> > >>> On 9/06/2016, at 05:51, Ken Green via DeTomaso > >>> <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> wrote: > >>> > >>> You mean do something before someone burns though the cash reserve > >>> playing with their ideas of what a club should be. I heard the POCA > >>> cash reserve is over $100,000. I don't know anything about the > >>> typical > >>> size of cash reserves for car clubs, but that seems like a lot? > >>> Ken > >>> __________________________________________________________________ > >>> > >>> From: Dave <dave@damardirect.com> > >>> To: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <detomasoregistry@gmail.com> > >>> Cc: DeTomaso List <detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> > >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 10:18 AM > >>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum > >>> Thank you Chuck for letting me know what has transpired within the > >>> organization. Thank you Kurt for the resurrection. > >>> It is interesting that the new POCA website forum is far behind this > >>> forum as far as popularity. It is also worth noting that technology, > >>> the "better", new format of the POCA, is suffering a lack of > >>> attendance > >>> or participation, compared to this site. The phrase "build it & they > >>> will come running" certainly does not sound like it is happening. So > >>> why is the old guard allowing this to happen? It seems so flagrant. I > >>> think I read a sentiment that in essence said, if you don't like the > >>> new structure, you are not needed. This is a car group, how do you > >>> censor or better, why would you threaten anyone who disagrees with > >>> expulsion? > >>> Seems there is the dominate group forcing the subordinate group to > >>> leave, the very definition of expulsion. > >>> I agree Chuck, so very sad. I would think change is needed sooner than > >>> later. > >>> Dave > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: The DeTomaso Registry Guy [mailto:[1]detomasoregistry@gmail.com] > >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 2:27 PM > >>> To: Dave > >>> Cc: DeTomaso List > >>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum > >>> Can someone enlighten me, please? > >>> I am/was under the impression this email list or forum was rescued > >>> from > >>> being dissolved by Kurt. (thank you Kurt) I was also under the > >>> impression this site was not part of or controlled by POCA.. > >>> Is this true? > >>> Thanks > >>> IndyDave > >>> Dave, > >>> You missed someone's good explanation of the list history. It was > >>> started long ago, and when it was time for the guy to move on, he > >>> allowed POCA to 'manage' it under certain conditions. > >>> Then recently MS decided it should be killed, favoring the POCA > >>> Board-like forum. > >>> Kurt Byrnes (sp ?) took responsibility and restarted it. > >>> Now, the list is 'freed from POCA'... THANKS Kurt! > >>> To use the POCA forum requires membership ($75 annually), it is > >>> censored for anti-POCA content, is no better than the GREAT (and free) > >>> PI Forum, actually much LESS than the PI Forum, and thus is not really > >>> used. > >>> And when newly-freed spirits discuss things 'here' some POCA people > >>> feel compelled to answer. > >>> Perhaps the POCA propaganda machine should re-evaluate their > >>> communications method. > >>> Or maybe Dave, you are adding your commentary too subtly for me (big > >>> grin). > >>> (Read between the lines ?!? What lines ?!? GRIN) > >>> Now... > >>> What caught my attention was a statement was made by the > >>> POCA-propaganda machine (PPM) regarding evaluation of alternate > >>> printers. > >>> How this was presented did seem reasonable (at first!). Yet Judy > >>> DeRyke > >>> (and/or others) commented on how the decision was actually made. This > >>> was refuted by the PPM. So someone felt it necessary to post just how > >>> POCA makes its decisions (well how Michael Shortt makes decisions for > >>> ALL POCA members) using an actual e-mail message as the > >>> fact/source/evidence. What better way to form an opinion than with > >>> facts, right? > >>> The posting of the facts was made by a non-POCA officer. > >>> He was then threatened with censure and being kicked out of the club > >>> for posting the evidence. WOW ! > >>> First, I do not believe the person posting the facts can or should be > >>> punished. He did not sign a statement or agree to ANY terms that he > >>> is > >>> in violation of. Challenging a lie is the right thing to do. If Mr. > >>> Shortt wants to try to punish anyone, it should be himself for not > >>> conveying the truth in the first place. > >>> While I am not passing judgment on any one suggestion for improvement > >>> of POCA, I do object to HOW things are done, and HOW people are being > >>> treated. > >>> More specifically how people who are not in full agreement with the > >>> current POCA president are being treated. Let everyone focus on that > >>>> one< issue. Correct that problem first, otherwise it will taint any > >>> and all (otherwise possibly good) suggestions for change within POCA. > >>> With the leak of this document, POCA members and non-members alike > >>> have > >>> been given insight into just how POCA is currently being run. How the > >>> PPM will respond will also be enlightening! > >>> Sad, quite sad. > >>> Here is an idea mentioned to me recently, perhaps if POCA wants to > >>> respond to statements, they could do so, but on their own website, and > >>> from their elected Public Relations guy (only), isn't that what the PR > >>> job entails? > >>> (Sorry to poke at Ed Mendez the current POCA PR guy, as he must have a > >>> REALLY tough job, being elected to be the official POCA voice, but > >>> having less-than-accurate statements made by the current POCA > >>> president > >>> as IF he is the sole POCA voice.) > >>> What a mess for the PR guy to be stuck with... > >>> Chuck > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > >>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > >>> DeTomaso mailing list > >>> [2]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > >>> [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > >>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) > >>> use the links above. > >>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any > >>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the > >>> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive > >>> or approve the archiving of list messages. > >>> > >>> References > >>> > >>> 1. mailto:detomasoregistry@gmail.com > >>> 2. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > >>> 3. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> > >>> > >>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > >>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > >>> DeTomaso mailing list > >>> DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > >>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > >>> > >>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) > >>> use the links above. > >>> > >>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any > >>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. > >>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or > >>> approve the archiving of list messages. > >> _______________________________________________ > >> > >> > >> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > >> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > >> DeTomaso mailing list > >> DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > >> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > >> > >> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use > >> the links above. > >> > >> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any > >> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. > >> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or > >> approve the archiving of list messages. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > > DeTomaso mailing list > > DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. > > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.