August 2016 - DeTomaso - detomasolist.com

Re: [DeTomaso] Has anyone researched hood vent designs? (Dave Londry)
by Dan Courtney 06 Aug '16

06 Aug '16

mAD pUPPY hAS lOST eVERYTHING, iNCLUDING hIS bRAIN, aLONG tHAT sTRETCH. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone <div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: Scott Couchman <scottcouchman(a)yahoo.com> </div><div>Date:08/06/2016 4:00 PM (GMT-07:00) </div><div>To: "Dan F. Courtney" <dan(a)excaliburre.com> </div><div>Cc: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com </div><div>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Has anyone researched hood vent designs? (Dave Londry) </div><div> </div>I was planning to run the Silver State without the deck lid. I think Mad Dog lost his too. > On Aug 6, 2016, at 3:55 PM, Dan F. Courtney <dan(a)excaliburre.com> wrote: > > As one who does drive at very high speed I can tell you the front hood > does lift at least 2a on aThe Beasta, which has two custom hood vents > behind the radiator. It has rubber straps to keep it from getting too > high, while also letting the air escape. > Also, over 160 mph there is a ton of upward pressure on the rear deck > lids. Iave lost two fiberglass deck lids (one in a somewhat famous > incident along the Silver State Challenge route). > Weave reinforced the hinge pins and louvers are on the drawing board. > Iave also noticed the car settles down significantly once the rear deck > lid is gone. At first I didnat realize why the rear was finally > settling down and holding the ground, until the end of the route when I > walked around and noticed the deck lid was gone. > > Dan > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. mAD pUPPY hAS lOST eVERYTHING, iNCLUDING hIS bRAIN, aLONG tHAT sTRETCH. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Scott Couchman Date:08/06/2016 4:00 PM (GMT-07:00) To: "Dan F. Courtney" Cc: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Has anyone researched hood vent designs? (Dave Londry) I was planning to run the Silver State without the deck lid. I think Mad Dog lost his too. > On Aug 6, 2016, at 3:55 PM, Dan F. Courtney <dan(a)excaliburre.com> wrote: > > As one who does drive at very high speed I can tell you the front hood > does lift at least 2a on aThe Beasta, which has two custom hood vents > behind the radiator. It has rubber straps to keep it from getting too > high, while also letting the air escape. > Also, over 160 mph there is a ton of upward pressure on the rear deck > lids. Iave lost two fiberglass deck lids (one in a somewhat famous > incident along the Silver State Challenge route). > Weave reinforced the hinge pins and louvers are on the drawing board. > Iave also noticed the car settles down significantly once the rear deck > lid is gone. At first I didnat realize why the rear was finally > settling down and holding the ground, until the end of the route when I > walked around and noticed the deck lid was gone. > > Dan > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.

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Has anyone researched hood vent designs?
by Rod Kunishige 06 Aug '16

06 Aug '16

Does anyone have access to Autodesk Flow Analysis does exposes air flows of models? <http://aka.ms/weboutlook> Does anyone have access to Autodesk Flow Analysis does exposes air flows of models? References Visible links Hidden links: 2. http://aka.ms/weboutlook

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Re: [DeTomaso] Auctions (Hot August Nights & Monterey)
by P6746＠aol.com 06 Aug '16

06 Aug '16

The only car I recognize is Mecum #244447 which I believe is Clark & Wilma Hamm's 74L. Bob Reid The only car I recognize is Mecum #244447 which I believe is Clark & Wilma Hamm's 74L. Bob Reid

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Auctions (Hot August Nights & Monterey)
by Julian Kift 06 Aug '16

06 Aug '16

It's slow on the list and I've just returned from an afternoon at the Hot August Nights auction now run by Motorsports Auction Group (MAG) after BJ blew Reno off (literally). It seemed there were a lot of no sales, those cars that did sell (of cars that would be of interest to me) seemed mostly well bought. No Pantera's and as expected a lot of hot rods, which are very much an individual taste IMO, usually coveted most by the guy that built it more than anyone else!. Dave Kindig and his sidekick were there with the GM Futureliner (feature lot) a 60' Caddy and an F100. I have to say the quality of the workmanship and final finish was impressive. On to upcoming auctions and the Pantera content as there's a 'Plethora of Pantera's' coming up for sale in Monterey in a couple weeks. Yes I purposely put 'pride' aside as last time all those Southern cats got together they stirred up a hornets nest, but also because when you look up a group of Panther's (not withstanding they are solitary felines) they would be a 'leap' and not a pride! You wouldn't believe the hits I got for a group of Cougars....... Anyway enough of the multiplicity of big cats and onto the multiples of Pantera's coming up for auction; Mecum seems to have the 'leap' on all the other auctions with six Pantera's on the lot list; https://www.mecum.com/lots/CA0816-244447/1974-detomaso-pantera/ https://www.mecum.com/lots/CA0816-244469/1974-detomaso-pantera/ https://www.mecum.com/lots/CA0816-244585/1974-detomaso-pantera/ https://www.mecum.com/lots/CA0816-259989/1972-detomaso-pantera-l/ https://www.mecum.com/lots/CA0816-260073/1971-detomaso-pantera/ https://www.mecum.com/lots/CA0816-244308/1972-detomaso-pantera/ <https://www.mecum.com/lots/CA0816-244308/1972-detomaso-pantera/>None of the other major auction houses had any De Tomaso models listed. Julian It's slow on the list and I've just returned from an afternoon at the Hot August Nights auction now run by Motorsports Auction Group (MAG) after BJ blew Reno off (literally). It seemed there were a lot of no sales, those cars that did sell (of cars that would be of interest to me) seemed mostly well bought. No Pantera's and as expected a lot of hot rods, which are very much an individual taste IMO, usually coveted most by the guy that built it more than anyone else!. Dave Kindig and his sidekick were there with the GM Futureliner (feature lot) a 60' Caddy and an F100. I have to say the quality of the workmanship and final finish was impressive. On to upcoming auctions and the Pantera content as there's a 'Plethora of Pantera's' coming up for sale in Monterey in a couple weeks. Yes I purposely put 'pride' aside as last time all those Southern cats got together they stirred up a hornets nest, but also because when you look up a group of Panther's (not withstanding they are solitary felines) they would be a 'leap' and not a pride! You wouldn't believe the hits I got for a group of Cougars....... Anyway enough of the multiplicity of big cats and onto the multiples of Pantera's coming up for auction; Mecum seems to have the 'leap' on all the other auctions with six Pantera's on the lot list; [1]https://www.mecum.com/lots/CA0816-244447/1974-detomaso-pantera/ [2]https://www.mecum.com/lots/CA0816-244469/1974-detomaso-pantera/ [3]https://www.mecum.com/lots/CA0816-244585/1974-detomaso-pantera/ [4]https://www.mecum.com/lots/CA0816-259989/1972-detomaso-pantera-l/ [5]https://www.mecum.com/lots/CA0816-260073/1971-detomaso-pantera/ [6]https://www.mecum.com/lots/CA0816-244308/1972-detomaso-pantera/ None of the other major auction houses had any De Tomaso models listed. Julian References Visible links 1. https://www.mecum.com/lots/CA0816-244447/1974-detomaso-pantera/ 2. https://www.mecum.com/lots/CA0816-244469/1974-detomaso-pantera/ 3. https://www.mecum.com/lots/CA0816-244585/1974-detomaso-pantera/ 4. https://www.mecum.com/lots/CA0816-259989/1972-detomaso-pantera-l/ 5. https://www.mecum.com/lots/CA0816-260073/1971-detomaso-pantera/ 6. https://www.mecum.com/lots/CA0816-244308/1972-detomaso-pantera/ Hidden links: 8. https://www.mecum.com/lots/CA0816-244308/1972-detomaso-pantera/

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Re: [DeTomaso] Auctions (Hot August Nights & Monterey)
by Will Kooiman 06 Aug '16

06 Aug '16

Wow. Do they really expect $130,000 to $170,000 for each of these? On 8/6/16, 12:18 AM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Julian Kift" <detomaso-bounces(a)server.detomasolist.com on behalf of julian_kift(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > It's slow on the list and I've just returned from > an afternoon at the Hot August Nights auction now run by Motorsports > Auction Group (MAG) after BJ blew Reno off (literally). It seemed there > were a lot of no sales, those cars that did sell (of cars that would be > of interest to me) seemed mostly well bought. No Pantera's and as > expected a lot of hot rods, which are very much an individual taste > IMO, usually coveted most by the guy that built it more than anyone > else!. Dave Kindig and his sidekick were there with the GM Futureliner > (feature lot) a 60' Caddy and an F100. I have to say the quality > of the workmanship and final finish was impressive. > On to upcoming auctions and the Pantera content as there's a 'Plethora > of Pantera's' coming up for sale in Monterey in a couple weeks. Yes I > purposely put 'pride' aside as last time all those Southern cats got > together they stirred up a hornets nest, but also because when you look > up a group of Panther's (not withstanding they are solitary > felines) they would be a 'leap' and not a pride! You wouldn't believe > the hits I got for a group of Cougars....... Anyway enough of the > multiplicity of big cats and onto the multiples of Pantera's coming up > for auction; > Mecum seems to have the 'leap' on all the other auctions with six > Pantera's on the lot list; > [1]https://www.mecum.com/lots/CA0816-244447/1974-detomaso-pantera/ > [2]https://www.mecum.com/lots/CA0816-244469/1974-detomaso-pantera/ > [3]https://www.mecum.com/lots/CA0816-244585/1974-detomaso-pantera/ > [4]https://www.mecum.com/lots/CA0816-259989/1972-detomaso-pantera-l/ > [5]https://www.mecum.com/lots/CA0816-260073/1971-detomaso-pantera/ > [6]https://www.mecum.com/lots/CA0816-244308/1972-detomaso-pantera/ > None of the other major auction houses had any De Tomaso models listed. > Julian > >References > > Visible links > 1. https://www.mecum.com/lots/CA0816-244447/1974-detomaso-pantera/ > 2. https://www.mecum.com/lots/CA0816-244469/1974-detomaso-pantera/ > 3. https://www.mecum.com/lots/CA0816-244585/1974-detomaso-pantera/ > 4. https://www.mecum.com/lots/CA0816-259989/1972-detomaso-pantera-l/ > 5. https://www.mecum.com/lots/CA0816-260073/1971-detomaso-pantera/ > 6. https://www.mecum.com/lots/CA0816-244308/1972-detomaso-pantera/ > > Hidden links: > 8. https://www.mecum.com/lots/CA0816-244308/1972-detomaso-pantera/ >_______________________________________________ > > >Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA >Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes >DeTomaso mailing list >DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com >http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > >To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use >the links above. > >Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any >message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. >They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or >approve the archiving of list messages.

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Dash Vents
by Fred Sweeney 06 Aug '16

06 Aug '16

If you have a dash vent that is broken or missing a slat, I found out that c.1970 Lincoln Continentals use the same vents. I bought one for my Pre-L '72 and it matched perfect. Go online and search for specialists in these LC's. They might have your vent.

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NPC: Ferrari
by Emiliano Ballejos 05 Aug '16

05 Aug '16

Does anyone on the list own a Ferrari 355? I just bought one and have some questions. Regards, Emiliano 5910L 7205gts Sent from my iPhone

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Re: [DeTomaso] NPC: Ferrari
by Al Chelini 05 Aug '16

05 Aug '16

How can I help? If you want, PM me at: pantera(a)cox.net Al Chelini 3915 On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 9:58 AM, Emiliano Ballejos <mghibli7(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > Does anyone on the list own a Ferrari 355? > > I just bought one and have some questions. > > Regards, > Emiliano > > 5910L > 7205gts > > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use > the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any > message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. > They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve > the archiving of list messages. > How can I help? If you want, PM me at: [1]pantera(a)cox.net Al Chelini 3915 On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 9:58 AM, Emiliano Ballejos <[2]mghibli7(a)hotmail.com> wrote: Does anyone on the list own a Ferrari 355? I just bought one and have someA questions. Regards, Emiliano 5910L 7205gts Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [3]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com [4]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:pantera@cox.net 2. mailto:mghibli7@hotmail.com 3. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 4. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso

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Re: [DeTomaso] Has anyone researched hood vent designs?
by MikeLDrew＠aol.com 05 Aug '16

05 Aug '16

In a message dated 8/2/16 7 55 50, julian_kift(a)hotmail.com writes: > Hood vents are a great way to provide additional cooling in traffic, but > perhaps limited value at high speed when the front of the hood becomes a > high pressure area. Now you have opposing forces at play and at speed 'x' > the pressure is likely enough to overcome that produced by the radiator fans > (I imagine that 'x' would not be excessively high, perhaps even highway > cruising speed). So outside air now reverse enters the hood vents or at a > minimum restricts fan flow resulting in air that is forced under the car i.e. > back to the original Ford design concept. A Gurney lip on the frontal edge > of hood vents would help create a low pressure area, but I still believe > the air from the radiators will ultimately be forced under the car at some > speed now x+y. > >>>I don't know about high triple-digit speeds, but the hood is a low-pressure area at speeds typically seen on the road (even low triple-digit speeds). You can test this for yourself by simply unlatching the hood and going for a drive. At freeway speeds, it will 'float' an inch or two above the latch, as vacuum from above (probably aided by pressure from below) lifts it slightly. I don't know what, if any effect might be realized by introducing hood vents with all other things being equal. Providing a path for air to exit through the hood rather than pushing up on the underside of it might be a thing? (Geoff Peters had a very thin carbon fiber hood, with vents, on his GT5, and he found that at high speeds, it would deform so much by lifting in the center, that the pin would move forward and pop out the front side of the latch and then the hood would fly open and hover a few inches above the latch!) An air dam, particular a proper Gr4/GT5 air dam, provides meaningful downforce and probably helps prevent air from underneath from pressing up on the underside of the hood, as others have mentioned.... If you look at the GT40, the early cars came with two deep triangular hood vents, while the later ones came with a single very large vent, which was undoubtedly far more effective. Having said all of that, I've run my car at 130+ mph on the track with a simple, small GTS mini air dam and no hood vents, and the car ran at 180 degrees with not a bit of front-end lift. I wouldn't assert that the front end would be similarly planted at 200 mph, but then again, I have no intention of going anywhere near 200 mph so it's completely academic.... Mike In a message dated 8/2/16 7 55 50, julian_kift(a)hotmail.com writes: Hood vents are a great way to provide additional cooling in traffic, but perhaps limited value at high speed when the front of the hood becomes a high pressure area. Now you have opposing forces at play and at speed 'x' the pressure is likely enough to overcome that produced by the radiator fans (I imagine that 'x' would not be excessively high, perhaps even highway cruising speed). So outside air now reverse enters the hood vents or at a minimum restricts fan flow resulting in air that is forced under the car i.e. back to the original Ford design concept. A Gurney lip on the frontal edge of hood vents would help create a low pressure area, but I still believe the air from the radiators will ultimately be forced under the car at some speed now x+y. >>>I don't know about high triple-digit speeds, but the hood is a low-pressure area at speeds typically seen on the road (even low triple-digit speeds). You can test this for yourself by simply unlatching the hood and going for a drive. At freeway speeds, it will 'float' an inch or two above the latch, as vacuum from above (probably aided by pressure from below) lifts it slightly. I don't know what, if any effect might be realized by introducing hood vents with all other things being equal. Providing a path for air to exit through the hood rather than pushing up on the underside of it might be a thing? (Geoff Peters had a very thin carbon fiber hood, with vents, on his GT5, and he found that at high speeds, it would deform so much by lifting in the center, that the pin would move forward and pop out the front side of the latch and then the hood would fly open and hover a few inches above the latch!) An air dam, particular a proper Gr4/GT5 air dam, provides meaningful downforce and probably helps prevent air from underneath from pressing up on the underside of the hood, as others have mentioned.... If you look at the GT40, the early cars came with two deep triangular hood vents, while the later ones came with a single very large vent, which was undoubtedly far more effective. Having said all of that, I've run my car at 130+ mph on the track with a simple, small GTS mini air dam and no hood vents, and the car ran at 180 degrees with not a bit of front-end lift. I wouldn't assert that the front end would be similarly planted at 200 mph, but then again, I have no intention of going anywhere near 200 mph so it's completely academic.... Mike

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Headlights and rust pockets
by Stephen 05 Aug '16

05 Aug '16

I am in the process of getting ready for the Pantera NW tour this fall up into Canada, taking care of little things to make the car that much nicer - at least in my eyes: Installing Kirk Evans quad headlight kit, Installing the new back-window for the engine bay and an engine-bay cooling fan, and, the stretch goal: Installing remote door locks and security system. The first thing on the list is the headlights. I can remember the first time I drove 5332 in the dark. It was just plain scary - as in I couldn't read the gauges, and the headlights were a joke. Funny, as part of installing Kirk's lights - which I heartily endorse - I think I see one of the reasons the headlights were so ineffective. I'll explain below. None the less, to my eye, the car looks fantastic with the lower opening for the headlight buckets. Since I had the headlight buckets out I figured it would be a good time to inspect the inside of the front of the fenders. And, low and behold, found a cavity that was full of sand and gravel - and clearly had been wet in the past. The first three photo's in this gallery show where the cavity is, and give some idea of how much crud had accumulated. http://www.snclocks.com/TheRestofourWorld/Autos/Technical-Bits/ After scraping and vacuuming, I sealed the area with undercoating. Note, if you want more detail for any of the pictures - click on the larger picture - it will then go full-screen. To return to the gallery - click on the "X" in the upper right corner, or just hit "esc". Once I was finished with the head-light bucket mods and had the new lights fitted I realized it was a good time to replace the plastic gear in the headlight lifting mechanism. So, out comes the motor and gear assembly. Somewhere I read you can wiggle it out. Yup, lots of wiggling. Lots. But, take your time - it will come out - even with the great radiator/fans I got from Pantera Performance, and even with a pet-cock on the radiator lower drain. First thing I learned was at least a part of why the headlights were such poor performers. The rise and fall of the headlights is limited by a couple of switches. The switches are activated by adjustable stops - with rubber pads on the end of the adjustable stops. The rubber pad for the lower stop apparently pushes pretty much straight into the arm on the switch - it was in good shape. The rubber pad for the upper stop - well, it apparently slides across the arm on the switch - and wears pretty significantly. Check out the next picture in the gallery. With the worn rubber end the mechanism had to travel farther to reach the switch - resulting in the headlights shooting up into the sky. Since I had it out, next I took apart the motor. Hmmm - looks like the bearing on the output side of the motor has been spinning in the housing - see next photo. I drilled the rivets, flattened the fingers that hold the bearing in place, cleaned everything up, reversed the bearing, and riveted it back in place. And wow - one of the permanent magnets had come loose and moved over beside the other magnet. The next photo shows the loose magnet being clamped in place while the JB-Weld cures. Motor is now back together and spins right nice. Bit more inspection found that the post that the manual-raising gear turns on was also loose and spinning in its housing - see next photo. Staking the back of the post with a punch solved that problem. Hopefully tomorrow I will get the mechanism back together and be able to get it back in the car. As part of Kirk's headlight kit he provides a mechanical stop for the raising mechanism to minimize headlight movement when the lights are up. Installing the stop pretty much requires that the raising mechanism be out of the way. Another good reason to pull the mechanism and go through it. Hopefully, with the photos, this all makes sense. May have to clean this up and send it in for publication - once the dust settles from the Board reorganization. Stephen Nelson 5332

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