May 2016 - DeTomaso - detomasolist.com

Re: [DeTomaso] help searching (powder coat campys)
by MikeLDrew＠aol.com 05 Sep '16

05 Sep '16

In a message dated 5/26/16 7:58:20 PM, detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com writes: > Larry, > > I've still got the story on my computer. I can post it when I land > tonight. > >>>Found it, and text is posted below. It's worth mentioning that I have a set of Larry's wheels on the front of my car now. However, he goofed up and selected a way wrong color (DOH) so I had to have them painted atop the powdercoating. They are bulletproof now I think! Going forward, I would hope anybody who is contemplating doing this sort of thing will take the extra time to research the color and ensure tha it is what you want it to be.... BTW one of the really nice things about this list format is that I can whip out my phone while dashing through the airport between flights and quickly get caught up, whereas with a web-based forum I would realistically have to stop and break out my computer, get onto a WiFi network, and then wait for ages for huge pages to load. So thank goodness that the REAL forum is alive and well! Article text below. Note that this was written almost 20 years ago, and at this point should serve as the starting point for a conversation rather than being treated as though the words were taken from a burning bush.... Cheers! Mike ==== Restoring Magnesium Campagnolo Wheels the Right Way The Pantera was delivered wearing Campagnolo wheels cast in exotic magnesium alloy. Campagnolo is a very old company in Italy, and the methods they used were the tried-and-true types right out of the dawn of the Industrial Revolution. Thus, our magnesium wheels were cast in molds hand-carved from mahogany! Naturally, wooden molds, however hard, could only withstand a limited number of times that molten metal could be poured into them before sharp details were blurred. Eventually, these details were lost, and casting quality began to drop off as well so the mold would be scrapped. This short life of the wheel molds may in fact be the reason there are at least four separate models of Pantera wheels that are known to have been shipped at various times during the life of the DeTomaso/Ford joint project in the '70's. In the meantime, Campagnolo as a company was going through changes. The light-alloy bicycle accessory business was spun off in the '70's, the wheel company was sold (but kept its name the first two times), and new management were brought in after being taken over by Technomagnesio (one of Campagnolo's chief rivals in the alloy-wheel business). Finally, the magnesium wheels made late in the Pantera project were pressure-die-cast. This method is where the molten metal is literally pumped into steel dies under relatively high pressure. The metallic dies are much more expensive than the old mahogany ones, but they also last much longer, quality is higher and the higher pressure during the metal solidification results in a denser casting with fewer, smaller pore areas. Intuitively one would expect that the very late Campy wheels are stronger for these reasons. Magnesium, the lightest structural metal known, has one desirable and several not-so-desirable attributes. On the plus side, it is only 65% as heavy as aluminum while having as much strength as the better aluminum casting alloys, meaning it can be heat-treated and welded like aluminum. On the debit side, magnesium is a 'reactive' metal: when magnesium contacts plain water or even moisture in the air, a chemical reaction occurs that results in the outgassing of hydrogen gas from the water molecule; the l eftover oxygen combines with magnesium to produce the familiar white mag-oxide powder. If left exposed, Campy wheels will literally dissolve into powder! At 650 degrees Centigrade, magnesium burns in air at such high temperatures that most substances in contact with it melt or burn as well. Large chunks are difficult to catch on fire but grindings or shavings should be treated like gunpowder-and definitely kept dry! Fine mag metal powder will react hydrogen gas off so quickly, the gas spontaneously lights off, catching the rest of the metal on fire. Naturally, pouring water on a mag fire will result in a hydrogen explosion (remember the Hindenburg?) and even more fire! Sand or dry-chemical extinguishers are the only hope for stopping a magnesium fire. In fact, it may be best to simply stand back and let it burn itself out.... Magnesium alloys have the property of age-hardening-that is, a mag casting will get harder and progressively more brittle as it gets older, regardless of its use or storage. Magnesium expands some 2-1/2 times as much as aluminum when heated. This means that for best results, the casting must be physically restrained-bolted down-before heating or it will literally 'crawl away' from the welding torch! And due to its very light density, magnesium castings, especially open-mold castings, tend to be porous, or at least have very large crystalline areas. All wheels flex and bend slightly in use. Magnesium flexes too, but the flex-energy is not dissipated 100%. Instead, stresses build up inside the castings, eventually concentrating at an imperfection such as a casting pore or a crystal grain. Such an area will eventually separate and connect with another pore or weak spot. A few more cycles of this and you have a crack growing in the casting, with the accumulated stresses concentrating at the point-ends of the crack. This process works exactly like a micro pry-bar! Detecting cracks in mag castings cannot be done by conventional magneflux: magnesium is totally non-magnetic. So a fluorescent dye called Zyglow is dissolved in a very thin solvent like petroleum ether. The casting is dipped in the solvent, left for a few moments, then wiped off. A spray cleaner is used to further clean the casting. Any cracks or deep pores will retain some of the dye, however. Illuminating the casting with near-ultraviolet light will show up any retained dye. Porous, rough castings like our wheels require someone talented in the art of interpreting florescent patterns that show up. The layman could look at a perfectly good cast-mag wheel glowing in numerous areas and be afraid to mount a tire on it! X-ray casting checks can also be done but are even more expensive, require more highly trained operators to evaluate the film records and are sometimes inconclusive, requiring a dye-check to be sure! Cracked magnesium castings should only be welded after stop-drilling both ends of a detected crack. This is a technique whereby the crack is outlined and a small hole drilled through the casting just in front of each end of the crack, not in the crack itself. This is so when welding or grinding heat is applied, any growth of the crack will expand into the drill-hole rather than continuing to tear the base metal apart at the front of the crack. Then, the entire cracked area is V-ground away to prevent the crack from progressing sideways, and to provide clean metal to weld on. The V-groove is also necessary since vertical cracks in thicker sections don't weld very well. Remember the cautions regarding the dangers of accumulations of grinding or drilling chips from magnesium repairs! Magnesium welding is best done only by an expert, with lots of experience and understanding of the nuances of magnesium welding. The incautious can very easily start a fire that will literally consume everything in its reach-including your house, garage and Pantera! And surprisingly enough, the act of welding or grinding a casting induces even more stresses, so the repaired casting must be stress-annealed. This literally bakes out the accumulated stresses or any additional ones from the repairs and results in a like-new wheel that has many more years of safe driving left. Fortunately, the annealing temperature (recommended by aerospace users of magnesium) is only 350-375 degrees Fahrenheit. The piece is put into an oven, heated to 350-375 degrees, held for an hour or so, then very slowly cooled to room temperature-the slower the better! Ideally, the heavily insulated oven is simply turned off and left closed until the next morning. If the oven cannot be turned off, wrap the hot casting in thick blankets and leave it undisturbed for at least several hours. Note-this will discolor any silver finishes painted onto the wheels. Do the decorative painting last! After the wheel is cast or weld-repaired, if it is to be painted it must first be protected from moisture in the air by painting it with a zinc chromate solution. The zinc chromate reacts with the magnesium to produce a barrier layer that tends to be self-healing to small scratches-the zinc chromate literally spreads across the scratch, again protecting the underlying metal; not as well as a full-thickness coating, but at least there is some protection! Zinc chromate is widely used in the aviation industry, and should be available at better paint stores, as well as at any municipal airport repair facility. Bare wheels that are simply painted with conventional primers and paint may trap moisture between the wheel and paint, resulting in corrosion under the paint, which eventually shows up in the form of bubbles in the paint. In recent years, it has become very fashionable to powdercoat (or powderpaint) wheels rather than painting them. The resultant finish can be superior to paint, but only if the wheel is correctly prepared. Some people simply strip the old paint and then apply a coating of powderpaint, without actually repairing any damage to the surface, or checking the structural integrity of the wheel. When powderpainted in this fashion, often the wheel will out-gas during the painting process, leading to bubbles in the finish. Larry Stock of the Pantera Parts Connection found himself with a collection of Campy wheels from various sources, some of dubious ancestry (including Mike Drew's old wheels!) Even though modern 17” wheels and tires are all the rage right now, he has found there are a select group of individuals who are looking for the best possible original factory wheels, and he set about taking these cast-offs and bringing them up to better-than-new specification. The wheels were first carefully bead-blasted to remove all the old paint and underlying zinc chromate. The blasting process also removed any oxidation which might have accumulated. Afterwards, the wheels were annealed at 375 degrees in a large oven, which was allowed to slowly cool overnight. >From there, the wheels were hauled to a sophisticated testing facility used by NASA and Lockheed Aerospace. The wheels were dipped in a liquid penetrant (Zyglow), then rinsed off and evaluated for possible cracks and imperfections. Any such imperfections were clearly marked, and one wheel was condemned and ultimately discarded. Once the faults were identified, the wheels were then transported to a NASA welder who carefully welded up damaged areas of the wheels. While none of the wheels exhibited any significant cracks, several had large hunks missing from the lip of the rim. These were caused by the fitment of conventional wheel weights. The metal in the wheel weights reacts with the magnesium, turning it to powder. Tire-shop monkeys who traditionally remove old weights by hitting them with a hammer as often as not remove the lip of the wheel as well! For these reasons, whenever possible stick-on wheel weights should be used instead of clamp-on weights. The welder went out of his way to put excess material back into the wheels, so now they needed to be brought back into spec. But before any machining would take place, they were returned to the oven and annealed again, to restore whatever strength might have been compromised by the application of high heat in only one area of the wheel. Larry then took them to his fully-equipped machine shop. A rear axle/brake disc/stud assembly was inserted into a large lathe, and the wheels were bolted to the axle. Then sophisticated cutting tools were used to carefully remove the excess material and restore the original contours of the wheel. The average wheel required two full hours of machining in this fashion. Of course, machining introduces its own heat factors, so back into the oven they went! After annealing, the powderpainters sprayed on silver powderpaint, which had been carefully color- and texture-matched with an original, mint-condition factory painted wheel. Back into the oven to bake the silver paint on, and anneal the wheels again! Finally, a protective clear-coat was powderpainted atop the silver, then the wheels went back into the oven for the final time. The resulting wheels are absolutely flawless, exquisitely beautiful, and literally much better and stronger than new. The entire process was extremely labor-intensive and took almost six weeks to accomplish. Larry now has several full sets of early-style (Pre-L) wheels and a few L-model wheels in stock, which he'll sell for $325 each with the exchange of your old wheels. Alternately, he can have your existing wheels repaired for $325 each. Thanks to Larry Stock for providing the step-by-step photographs of the Pantera wheel restoration process. In a message dated 5/26/16 7:58:20 PM, detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com writes: Larry, I've still got the story on my computer. I can post it when I land tonight. >>>Found it, and text is posted below. It's worth mentioning that I have a set of Larry's wheels on the front of my car now. However, he goofed up and selected a way wrong color (DOH) so I had to have them painted atop the powdercoating. They are bulletproof now I think! Going forward, I would hope anybody who is contemplating doing this sort of thing will take the extra time to research the color and ensure tha it is what you want it to be.... BTW one of the really nice things about this list format is that I can whip out my phone while dashing through the airport between flights and quickly get caught up, whereas with a web-based forum I would realistically have to stop and break out my computer, get onto a WiFi network, and then wait for ages for huge pages to load. So thank goodness that the REAL forum is alive and well! Article text below. Note that this was written almost 20 years ago, and at this point should serve as the starting point for a conversation rather than being treated as though the words were taken from a burning bush.... Cheers! Mike ==== Restoring Magnesium Campagnolo Wheels the Right Way The Pantera was delivered wearing Campagnolo wheels cast in exotic magnesium alloy. Campagnolo is a very old company in Italy, and the methods they used were the tried-and-true types right out of the dawn of the Industrial Revolution. Thus, our magnesium wheels were cast in molds hand-carved from mahogany! Naturally, wooden molds, however hard, could only withstand a limited number of times that molten metal could be poured into them before sharp details were blurred. Eventually, these details were lost, and casting quality began to drop off as well so the mold would be scrapped. This short life of the wheel molds may in fact be the reason there are at least four separate models of Pantera wheels that are known to have been shipped at various times during the life of the DeTomaso/Ford joint project in the '70's. In the meantime, Campagnolo as a company was going through changes. The light-alloy bicycle accessory business was spun off in the '70's, the wheel company was sold (but kept its name the first two times), and new management were brought in after being taken over by Technomagnesio (one of Campagnolo's chief rivals in the alloy-wheel business). Finally, the magnesium wheels made late in the Pantera project were pressure-die-cast. This method is where the molten metal is literally pumped into steel dies under relatively high pressure. The metallic dies are much more expensive than the old mahogany ones, but they also last much longer, quality is higher and the higher pressure during the metal solidification results in a denser casting with fewer, smaller pore areas. Intuitively one would expect that the very late Campy wheels are stronger for these reasons. Magnesium, the lightest structural metal known, has one desirable and several not-so-desirable attributes. On the plus side, it is only 65% as heavy as aluminum while having as much strength as the better aluminum casting alloys, meaning it can be heat-treated and welded like aluminum. On the debit side, magnesium is a 'reactive' metal: when magnesium contacts plain water or even moisture in the air, a chemical reaction occurs that results in the outgassing of hydrogen gas from the water molecule; the leftover oxygen combines with magnesium to produce the familiar white mag-oxide powder. If left exposed, Campy wheels will literally dissolve into powder! At 650 degrees Centigrade, magnesium burns in air at such high temperatures that most substances in contact with it melt or burn as well. Large chunks are difficult to catch on fire but grindings or shavings should be treated like gunpowder-and definitely kept dry! Fine mag metal powder will react hydrogen gas off so quickly, the gas spontaneously lights off, catching the rest of the metal on fire. Naturally, pouring water on a mag fire will result in a hydrogen explosion (remember the Hindenburg?) and even more fire! Sand or dry-chemical extinguishers are the only hope for stopping a magnesium fire. In fact, it may be best to simply stand back and let it burn itself out.... Magnesium alloys have the property of age-hardening-that is, a mag casting will get harder and progressively more brittle as it gets older, regardless of its use or storage. Magnesium expands some 2-1/2 times as much as aluminum when heated. This means that for best results, the casting must be physically restrained-bolted down-before heating or it will literally 'crawl away' from the welding torch! And due to its very light density, magnesium castings, especially open-mold castings, tend to be porous, or at least have very large crystalline areas. All wheels flex and bend slightly in use. Magnesium flexes too, but the flex-energy is not dissipated 100%. Instead, stresses build up inside the castings, eventually concentrating at an imperfection such as a casting pore or a crystal grain. Such an area will eventually separate and connect with another pore or weak spot. A few more cycles of this and you have a crack growing in the casting, with the accumulated stresses concentrating at the point-ends of the crack. This process works exactly like a micro pry-bar! Detecting cracks in mag castings cannot be done by conventional magneflux: magnesium is totally non-magnetic. So a fluorescent dye called Zyglow is dissolved in a very thin solvent like petroleum ether. The casting is dipped in the solvent, left for a few moments, then wiped off. A spray cleaner is used to further clean the casting. Any cracks or deep pores will retain some of the dye, however. Illuminating the casting with near-ultraviolet light will show up any retained dye. Porous, rough castings like our wheels require someone talented in the art of interpreting florescent patterns that show up. The layman could look at a perfectly good cast-mag wheel glowing in numerous areas and be afraid to mount a tire on it! X-ray casting checks can also be done but are even more expensive, require more highly trained operators to evaluate the film records and are sometimes inconclusive, requiring a dye-check to be sure! Cracked magnesium castings should only be welded after stop-drilling both ends of a detected crack. This is a technique whereby the crack is outlined and a small hole drilled through the casting just in front of each end of the crack, not in the crack itself. This is so when welding or grinding heat is applied, any growth of the crack will expand into the drill-hole rather than continuing to tear the base metal apart at the front of the crack. Then, the entire cracked area is V-ground away to prevent the crack from progressing sideways, and to provide clean metal to weld on. The V-groove is also necessary since vertical cracks in thicker sections don't weld very well. Remember the cautions regarding the dangers of accumulations of grinding or drilling chips from magnesium repairs! Magnesium welding is best done only by an expert, with lots of experience and understanding of the nuances of magnesium welding. The incautious can very easily start a fire that will literally consume everything in its reach-including your house, garage and Pantera! And surprisingly enough, the act of welding or grinding a casting induces even more stresses, so the repaired casting must be stress-annealed. This literally bakes out the accumulated stresses or any additional ones from the repairs and results in a like-new wheel that has many more years of safe driving left. Fortunately, the annealing temperature (recommended by aerospace users of magnesium) is only 350-375 degrees Fahrenheit. The piece is put into an oven, heated to 350-375 degrees, held for an hour or so, then very slowly cooled to room temperature-the slower the better! Ideally, the heavily insulated oven is simply turned off and left closed until the next morning. If the oven cannot be turned off, wrap the hot casting in thick blankets and leave it undisturbed for at least several hours. Note-this will discolor any silver finishes painted onto the wheels. Do the decorative painting last! After the wheel is cast or weld-repaired, if it is to be painted it must first be protected from moisture in the air by painting it with a zinc chromate solution. The zinc chromate reacts with the magnesium to produce a barrier layer that tends to be self-healing to small scratches-the zinc chromate literally spreads across the scratch, again protecting the underlying metal; not as well as a full-thickness coating, but at least there is some protection! Zinc chromate is widely used in the aviation industry, and should be available at better paint stores, as well as at any municipal airport repair facility. Bare wheels that are simply painted with conventional primers and paint may trap moisture between the wheel and paint, resulting in corrosion under the paint, which eventually shows up in the form of bubbles in the paint. In recent years, it has become very fashionable to powdercoat (or powderpaint) wheels rather than painting them. The resultant finish can be superior to paint, but only if the wheel is correctly prepared. Some people simply strip the old paint and then apply a coating of powderpaint, without actually repairing any damage to the surface, or checking the structural integrity of the wheel. When powderpainted in this fashion, often the wheel will out-gas during the painting process, leading to bubbles in the finish. Larry Stock of the Pantera Parts Connection found himself with a collection of Campy wheels from various sources, some of dubious ancestry (including Mike Drew's old wheels!) Even though modern 17a wheels and tires are all the rage right now, he has found there are a select group of individuals who are looking for the best possible original factory wheels, and he set about taking these cast-offs and bringing them up to better-than-new specification. The wheels were first carefully bead-blasted to remove all the old paint and underlying zinc chromate. The blasting process also removed any oxidation which might have accumulated. Afterwards, the wheels were annealed at 375 degrees in a large oven, which was allowed to slowly cool overnight. From there, the wheels were hauled to a sophisticated testing facility used by NASA and Lockheed Aerospace. The wheels were dipped in a liquid penetrant (Zyglow), then rinsed off and evaluated for possible cracks and imperfections. Any such imperfections were clearly marked, and one wheel was condemned and ultimately discarded. Once the faults were identified, the wheels were then transported to a NASA welder who carefully welded up damaged areas of the wheels. While none of the wheels exhibited any significant cracks, several had large hunks missing from the lip of the rim. These were caused by the fitment of conventional wheel weights. The metal in the wheel weights reacts with the magnesium, turning it to powder. Tire-shop monkeys who traditionally remove old weights by hitting them with a hammer as often as not remove the lip of the wheel as well! For these reasons, whenever possible stick-on wheel weights should be used instead of clamp-on weights. The welder went out of his way to put excess material back into the wheels, so now they needed to be brought back into spec. But before any machining would take place, they were returned to the oven and annealed again, to restore whatever strength might have been compromised by the application of high heat in only one area of the wheel. Larry then took them to his fully-equipped machine shop. A rear axle/brake disc/stud assembly was inserted into a large lathe, and the wheels were bolted to the axle. Then sophisticated cutting tools were used to carefully remove the excess material and restore the original contours of the wheel. The average wheel required two full hours of machining in this fashion. Of course, machining introduces its own heat factors, so back into the oven they went! After annealing, the powderpainters sprayed on silver powderpaint, which had been carefully color- and texture-matched with an original, mint-condition factory painted wheel. Back into the oven to bake the silver paint on, and anneal the wheels again! Finally, a protective clear-coat was powderpainted atop the silver, then the wheels went back into the oven for the final time. The resulting wheels are absolutely flawless, exquisitely beautiful, and literally much better and stronger than new. The entire process was extremely labor-intensive and took almost six weeks to accomplish. Larry now has several full sets of early-style (Pre-L) wheels and a few L-model wheels in stock, which he'll sell for $325 each with the exchange of your old wheels. Alternately, he can have your existing wheels repaired for $325 each. Thanks to Larry Stock for providing the step-by-step photographs of the Pantera wheel restoration process.

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Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis
by marshallgsmith 26 Jun '16

26 Jun '16

Now wait a minute Dick, what you write here is WAY too level-headed for this forum! Who is this really?? All joking aside, I obtain multiple bids for every one of a 'number' of projects that I need to conduct every year. If I found a company that could save me $8,000 a year on a particular project, I would have felt like I won the lottery! Sure, every once in a while the new company who submitted the lowest bid does not do as good of a job of the old one but when that happens, I go back to the next bid which sometimes was the same company I used previously and all is back to normal.$8,000 a year is an awful lot of money just to stay with the company that you have and had comfort with. The statement of adding color to the newsletter would of course cost a bit more money but when you consider that we would be saving $8,000 off the top, we have a touch more money to play with and the savings would still be very sizable. Plus, if any car club newsletter in this country is worthy of several color pages, it absolutely would be Jack DeRyke's!! This club is and will be indebted to you forever Jack! Thanks for the wonderful work you do to keep our colorful jalopies on the road!! Marshall Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Dick Koch <redcatman74(a)gmail.com> Date: 05/29/2016 9:57 AM (GMT-08:00) To: Ed Mendez <edducati(a)mac.com> Cc: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and non-productive comments that have been made in recent weeks, many very personal and vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the club. It is good to have different points of view on club business. But to present one's point of view in a negative and personal manner, does nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and their persona in the eyes of others. From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many of the detractors do not have much experience in running a business. And make no mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To thrive, this club must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance it's value add to it's customers. As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the newsletter, for the board to not look for less expensive options, as with any other expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible. I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would have folks want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive and provides less for much more money. We have enough cronyism in our government. Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has been a reason for keeping a more expensive service that provides less. I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail the newsletter, that can be printed by anyone that is not to lazy to take 3 minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative. As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one person. Each person on the board has a say, with a majority required to decide on every issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just that, pointless. Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member of the board to the other members of the board, showing how approving that item would benefit the club member's experience, with the underlying financial implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs long term financial health. Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a constructive manner, with negative comments of a personal nature irrelevant and therefore non-constructive. I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and to think they are doing their job for free. What a deal... By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their comments, take it out on me. I deserve it for letting 6831 sit idle with a blown header gasket for years. Peace, fellow "cat" owners. Dick Koch - Atlanta Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky enough to be on the sunny side of the grass. On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez" <edducati(a)mac.com> wrote: > See below. > > > On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige <rkunishige(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace period > > without notice. > > False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning at 30 > days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club, Ferrari club, > Porsche club, they all have similar rules. > > > > The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10 increased > > rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first place. The > > return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven. Simply, use > > the money to pay for our publication costs. > False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority chapter > presidents. > > > PROPOSED: $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund the $62.52 > > publication estimate per MS. > > That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive quotes for > printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that is $8000 per year > cheaper than the one we are currently using. > > > > Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year. Carrying > > 853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year. Divide that into 100,000 > > means funding covers 46.5 YEARS. > False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve in the > bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in reserve. You > can google there income statements. > > > > OPINION: > > > > I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4 vote but > > there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has > > proposed. Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing the > > actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions for > > False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things we have > coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in fact there > very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best interest of the club > > This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and should > not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look bad. If you have > an issue talk with someone about your concern, preferably your chapter > president, they are your representative as in any organization. It's very > easy to simply pick up the phone instead of using this email list as a > podium for your disdain of MS. It's obvious, we get it. Please take it > offline. > > If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and many > others before me, and run for office. > > Kind regards > > > (Information taken from the Presidents Blog.) > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > > DeTomaso mailing list > > DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) > use the links above. > > > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any > message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. > They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve > the archiving of list messages. > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use > the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any > message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. > They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve > the archiving of list messages. > Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and non-productive comments that have been made in recent weeks, many very personal and vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the club. It is good to have different points of view on club business. But to present one's point of view in a negative and personalA manner, does nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and their persona in the eyes of others. From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many of the detractors do not have much experience in running a business. And make no mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To thrive, this club must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance it's value add to it's customers. As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the newsletter, for the board to not look for less expensive options, as with any other expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible. I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would have folks want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive and provides less for much more money.A We have enough cronyism in our government. Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has been a reason for keeping a more expensive service that provides less. I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail the newsletter, that can be printed by anyoneA that is not to lazy to take 3 minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative. As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one person.A Each person on the board has a say, with a majority required to decide on every issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just that, pointless. Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member of the board to the other members of the board, showing how approving that item would benefit the club member's experience, with the underlying financial implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs long term financial health. Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a constructive manner, with negative comments of a personal nature irrelevant and therefore non-constructive. I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and to think they are doing their job for free. What a deal... By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their comments, take it out on me.A I deserve it for letting 6831 sit idle with a blown header gasket for years. Peace, fellow "cat" owners. Dick Koch - Atlanta Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky enough to be on the sunny side of the grass. On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez" <[1]edducati(a)mac.com> wrote: See below. > On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige <[2]rkunishige(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > >A It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace period >A without notice. False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning at 30 days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club, Ferrari club, Porsche club, they all have similar rules. > >A The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10 increased >A rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first place.A The >A return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven.A Simply, use >A the money to pay for our publication costs. False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority chapter presidents. >A PROPOSED:A $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund the $62.52 >A publication estimate per MS. That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive quotes for printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that is $8000 per year cheaper than the one we are currently using. > >A Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year.A Carrying >A 853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year.A Divide that into 100,000 >A means funding covers 46.5 YEARS. False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve in the bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in reserve. You can google there income statements. >A OPINION: > >A I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4 vote but >A there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has >A proposed.A Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing the >A actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions for False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things we have coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in fact there very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best interest of the club This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and should not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look bad. If you have an issue talk with someone about your concern, preferably your chapter president, they are your representative as in any organization. It's very easy to simply pick up the phone instead of using this email list as a podium for your disdain of MS. It's obvious, we get it. Please take it offline. If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and many others before me, and run for office. Kind regards >A (Information taken from the Presidents Blog.) > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > [3]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > [4]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [5]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com [6]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:edducati@mac.com 2. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 3. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 4. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 5. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 6. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Now wait a minute Dick, what you write here is WAY too level-headed for this forum! Who is this really?? All joking aside, I obtain multiple bids for every one of a 'number' of projects that I need to conduct every year. If I found a company that could save me $8,000 a year on a particular project, I would have felt like I won the lottery! Sure, every once in a while the new company who submitted the lowest bid does not do as good of a job of the old one but when that happens, I go back to the next bid which sometimes was the same company I used previously and all is back to normal. $8,000 a year is an awful lot of money just to stay with the company that you have and had comfort with. The statement of adding color to the newsletter would of course cost a bit more money but when you consider that we would be saving $8,000 off the top, we have a touch more money to play with and the savings would still be very sizable. Plus, if any car club newsletter in this country is worthy of several color pages, it absolutely would be Jack DeRyke's!! This club is and will be indebted to you forever Jack! Thanks for the wonderful work you do to keep our colorful jalopies on the road!! Marshall Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Dick Koch <redcatman74(a)gmail.com> Date: 05/29/2016 9:57 AM (GMT-08:00) To: Ed Mendez <edducati(a)mac.com> Cc: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and non-productive comments that have been made in recent weeks, many very personal and vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the club. It is good to have different points of view on club business. But to present one's point of view in a negative and personal manner, does nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and their persona in the eyes of others. From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many of the detractors do not have much experience in running a business. And make no mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To thrive, this club must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance it's value add to it's customers. As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the newsletter, for the board to not look for less expensive options, as with any other expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible. I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would have folks want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive and provides less for much more money. We have enough cronyism in our government. Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has been a reason for keeping a more expensive service that provides less. I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail the newsletter, that can be printed by anyone that is not to lazy to take 3 minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative. As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one person. Each person on the board has a say, with a majority required to decide on every issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just that, pointless. Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member of the board to the other members of the board, showing how approving that item would benefit the club member's experience, with the underlying financial implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs long term financial health. Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a constructive manner, with negative comments of a personal nature irrelevant and therefore non-constructive. I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and to think they are doing their job for free. What a deal... By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their comments, take it out on me. I deserve it for letting 6831 sit idle with a blown header gasket for years. Peace, fellow "cat" owners. Dick Koch - Atlanta Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky enough to be on the sunny side of the grass. On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez" <edducati(a)mac.com> wrote: > See below. > > > On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige <rkunishige(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace period > > without notice. > > False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning at 30 > days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club, Ferrari club, > Porsche club, they all have similar rules. > > > > The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10 increased > > rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first place. The > > return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven. Simply, use > > the money to pay for our publication costs. > False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority chapter > presidents. > > > PROPOSED: $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund the $62.52 > > publication estimate per MS. > > That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive quotes for > printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that is $8000 per year > cheaper than the one we are currently using. > > > > Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year. Carrying > > 853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year. Divide that into 100,000 > > means funding covers 46.5 YEARS. > False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve in the > bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in reserve. You > can google there income statements. > > > > OPINION: > > > > I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4 vote but > > there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has > > proposed. Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing the > > actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions for > > False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things we have > coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in fact there > very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best interest of the club > > This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and should > not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look bad. If you have > an issue talk with someone about your concern, preferably your chapter > president, they are your representative as in any organization. It's very > easy to simply pick up the phone instead of using this email list as a > podium for your disdain of MS. It's obvious, we get it. Please take it > offline. > > If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and many > others before me, and run for office. > > Kind regards > > > (Information taken from the Presidents Blog.) > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > > DeTomaso mailing list > > DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) > use the links above. > > > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any > message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. > They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve > the archiving of list messages. > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use > the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any > message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. > They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve > the archiving of list messages. > Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and non-productive comments that have been made in recent weeks, many very personal and vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the club. It is good to have different points of view on club business. But to present one's point of view in a negative and personalA manner, does nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and their persona in the eyes of others. From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many of the detractors do not have much experience in running a business. And make no mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To thrive, this club must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance it's value add to it's customers. As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the newsletter, for the board to not look for less expensive options, as with any other expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible. I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would have folks want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive and provides less for much more money.A We have enough cronyism in our government. Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has been a reason for keeping a more expensive service that provides less. I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail the newsletter, that can be printed by anyoneA that is not to lazy to take 3 minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative. As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one person.A Each person on the board has a say, with a majority required to decide on every issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just that, pointless. Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member of the board to the other members of the board, showing how approving that item would benefit the club member's experience, with the underlying financial implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs long term financial health. Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a constructive manner, with negative comments of a personal nature irrelevant and therefore non-constructive. I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and to think they are doing their job for free. What a deal... By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their comments, take it out on me.A I deserve it for letting 6831 sit idle with a blown header gasket for years. Peace, fellow "cat" owners. Dick Koch - Atlanta Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky enough to be on the sunny side of the grass. On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez" <[1]edducati(a)mac.com> wrote: See below. > On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige <[2]rkunishige(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > >A It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace period >A without notice. False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning at 30 days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club, Ferrari club, Porsche club, they all have similar rules. > >A The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10 increased >A rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first place.A The >A return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven.A Simply, use >A the money to pay for our publication costs. False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority chapter presidents. >A PROPOSED:A $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund the $62.52 >A publication estimate per MS. That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive quotes for printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that is $8000 per year cheaper than the one we are currently using. > >A Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year.A Carrying >A 853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year.A Divide that into 100,000 >A means funding covers 46.5 YEARS. False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve in the bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in reserve. You can google there income statements. >A OPINION: > >A I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4 vote but >A there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has >A proposed.A Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing the >A actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions for False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things we have coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in fact there very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best interest of the club This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and should not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look bad. If you have an issue talk with someone about your concern, preferably your chapter president, they are your representative as in any organization. It's very easy to simply pick up the phone instead of using this email list as a podium for your disdain of MS. It's obvious, we get it. Please take it offline. If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and many others before me, and run for office. Kind regards >A (Information taken from the Presidents Blog.) > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > [3]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > [4]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [5]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com [6]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:edducati@mac.com 2. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 3. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 4. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 5. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 6. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.

9 11

Laurie's vision of current topics (be warned ... long and tedious)
by laurieferrari＠aol.com 03 Jun '16

03 Jun '16

Hello out there in Pantera Email Forum Land. Huge thanks to Kurt as I am another who has always loved our communication in this way. For anyone who might be confused, just to be clear, I'm Laurie Basile/ aka Laurie Ferrari on here as that's my email name. I'm one in the same in case you are looking up any of my old postings in the archives, which I don't advise. I have some of my own thoughts on the new status of POCA. While there's no question that a stock, unmodified, unmolested Pantera is a rare and specially revered item, however the Pantera Club (POCA) and its Website is not to be confused with that same logic. The Club has needed modifications for far too long, most notably reconsideration of modernization and efforts to offer more to the members, and the opening of paths that were forever encumbered with roadblocks. I think the main beef of the many members/lurkers who have been complaining of late is due to the possible loss of the email forum. Yes? Or, some perhaps are not used to the no nonsense, energetic, assertive, personality of Michael Shortt. Well, as board meetings have been open to members I must say I was truly shocked at the rude and unprofessional demeanor of some of the oldest of Board Members. And those on here who are seeking fault and trying to paint a negative picture of the new direction of POCA, I say, if any of you are so touchy and hypersensitive, you'd not have been able to tolerate the myriads of posted comments through the years that could be considered the most non politically correct on here and greatest examples of taunts and tongue in cheek comments on everything from gayness, to racial and political insults, or the worst (personally offensive) the wing modifications on GT5 Panteras. ... Come on folks. What I see that is happening is that Mike Shortt's vision and those of the progressive Board members is one that many have begged for. That being one of a more professionally represented, respectable club (except for our more private, less respectable ramblings on here) one that's more of a Class Act rather than a knitting party, and more representative of the rarity and beauty of our cars, the wealth of knowledge and expertise of our members, and the generosity, helpfulness, and camaraderie of our people. I'd say Michael sees and is enacting, remember....with Board and Chapter Representative approval, a vision of the possibilities and potential of our organization to be more transparent as to the inner workings of major POCA decisions. Those in the know can not argue about the fact that this has been something sorely lacking in the past with regard to political issues, election fairness, and finances, i.e. comparative shopping for our needs, insurance, printing and so on. For the few to make suggestions or even comments that Mr. Shortt is a bigot or the usual gay comments from the peanut gallery.... shame on you! Those comments are just as untrue and inappropriate as they've ever been on here. But we grin and bare it and realize any such past comments would never be posted if serious. Or those who make such comments can look up the definition of "Psychological transference." I personally think a "Thank You" is far more appropriate for all the time, effort, and changes Michael is trying to implement! When the word went out that races were wanted at the Fun Rally, the first thing I recall he did was make contact and plans for such. It's ridiculous and unacceptable for anyone to be rude and insulting to those doing their best to help us have a better organization. I recently renewed my membership which I feel would be great if it was reduced a bit in cost (as it used to be) as I'd like the option to get only the "Profiles Magazine" in print form.. the Newsletter is perfectly suited for an online reference... (again, my opinion) and which I seem to hear would save the club something like $26,000 a year. On our new POCA Website I am able to look up old articles in Profiles... especially enjoy the ease of being able to find ones about my car and me, issue 2010 #1, and my SSCC synopsis, in 2000, #3. That's a whole lot easier than searching my own computer room and closet filled with years old multi-curricular lesson plans and old publications from POCA, and three other car clubs. I really love the idea of these publications being available ON LINE; it is quite modern and convenient. Insofar as the survey regarding POCA's Fun Rally...As always there were goods and not so goods. The good, naturally, is getting to see and socialize with old friends and meet new ones. The bad is that the Plaza remains to be, not the most appealing of choices. I don't know about the new furnishings but I do know that the entire floor where the hospitality and banquet was held was covered in sheets over the construction and warnings of potential injury....I kind of felt early on that it'd be a good idea, as a few others, to opt to stay at the Golden Nugget. It's right across the street and very nice! As usual though, at our event, the hospitality room opportunity with all the Club stores was and is always great. The sessions, especially Scott Mead's photography session was more than excellent. The run to Mt. Charles was beautiful. I didn't have a car there so I was so grateful to Lori Drew who hooked me up with a ride with a super nice fellow from PCNC, Bayani; many thanks Bayani! The banquet food was something I'm unable to compare easily as to the awfulness compared to any past Fun Rally. The Plaza buffets were generally decent in the past, even used to get a bottle of red and white wine on each table, but something definitely went amiss this year. As I was seated at a table with Terry Himes (Mars' space scientist) and friends, the best way to describe the salmon was freeze dried and suitable (almost) as astronaut food. The water was undrinkable, maybe tainted with some alien creatures, toxic chemicals, or poisoned purposefully so people would buy liquor during the banquet. Dessert, can't comment, didn't try. The raffle... well that's yet another story! I've been the one in the past who once had the job of recruiting prizes for months, organizing the displays, getting everything to Vegas, and then announcing the prizes at the dinner and I vividly recall being reprimanded for how long it took to disseminate prizes at the banquet ... BUT...in good fairness to me, i took a fraction of what happened this year.. which was in ponderous tortoise-like, multi-hours long, motion, so much to the fact that I literally made up for the previous two nights of lost sleep. I mean really, for hundreds of prizes from a few really nice car related, down to insignificant, and each prize announced in humorous but mostly painful detail ... down to a slew of t-shirts, one by one... and then waiting for the comatose winner to notice or be nudged awake that he or she'd won and then have to walk what seemed like 3 blocks to the podium to claim the prize... Good Lord! And I don't blame the presenter as I know what a difficult and commendable job this is.. it's the SYSTEM, not the person! I know many of you like to poke fun at the Corvette Clan but .... the way they've done raffles, at least the National ones, is to post a list of winning tickets #s and during the event, people go over periodically to see if they won, and get the prize from those in charge. Or those so inclined can stay at the prize area and watch the tickets being drawn. All the contributors are posted in advance and the donors are thanked and acknowledged on banners, signs, visuals, business cards, etc. There's always music and dancing and some sort of entertainment. We used to have music, karaoke, and entertainment. What happened??? So in conclusion, I like both the old (forum) and the new (POCA) and hope that people will be more cordial and appreciative of the efforts of Michael and those who work for us. Again much gratitude to Kurt and all involved for the Forum being alive and well. I am not in favor of the fact though that I very recently got a malicious malware bug that caused me to wipe out my entire computer... and start over, not saying it was from here.. BUT I've never had that problem before and I did have an excellent Internet security program installed. So I write with hopes that the risks are not found here! Can't leave without a big hello to Nathan of the North. Always great to hear from you and see your uplifting greetings. And to Bob Levitt...hope you remember me as I was out there on the Santa Monica pier to take pictures of you and your son upon your take off for the Gumball Cross Country race way back when. Still have them saved somewhere and they were on my former POCA album. Btw where are those albums? OK.... off and running and just might see lots of you at Pantera Palooza! Cheerio, Laurie Hello out there in Pantera Email Forum Land. Huge thanks to Kurt as I am another who has always loved our communication in this way. For anyone who might be confused, just to be clear, I'm Laurie Basile/ aka Laurie Ferrari on here as that's my email name. I'm one in the same in case you are looking up any of my old postings in the archives, which I don't advise. I have some of my own thoughts on the new status of POCA. While there's no question that a stock, unmodified, unmolested Pantera is a rare and specially revered item, however the Pantera Club (POCA) and its Website is not to be confused with that same logic. The Club has needed modifications for far too long, most notably reconsideration of modernization and efforts to offer more to the members, and the opening of paths that were forever encumbered with roadblocks. I think the main beef of the many members/lurkers who have been complaining of late is due to the possible loss of the email forum. Yes? Or, some perhaps are not used to the no nonsense, energetic, assertive, personality of Michael Shortt. Well, as board meetings have been open to members I must say I was truly shocked at the rude and unprofessional demeanor of some of the oldest of Board Members. And those on here who are seeking fault and trying to paint a negative picture of the new direction of POCA, I say, if any of you are so touchy and hypersensitive, you'd not have been able to tolerate the myriads of posted comments through the years that could be considered the most non politically correct on here and greatest examples of taunts and tongue in cheek comments on everything from gayness, to racial and political insults, or the worst (personally offensive) the wing modifications on GT5 Panteras. ... Come on folks. What I see that is happening is that Mike Shortt's vision and those of the progressive Board members is one that many have begged for. That being one of a more professionally represented, respectable club (except for our more private, less respectable ramblings on here) one that's more of a Class Act rather than a knitting party, and more representative of the rarity and beauty of our cars, the wealth of knowledge and expertise of our members, and the generosity, helpfulness, and camaraderie of our people. I'd say Michael sees and is enacting, remember....with Board and Chapter Representative approval, a vision of the possibilities and potential of our organization to be more transparent as to the inner workings of major POCA decisions. Those in the know can not argue about the fact that this has been something sorely lacking in the past with regard to political issues, election fairness, and finances, i.e. comparative shopping for our needs, insurance, printing and so on. For the few to make suggestions or even comments that Mr. Shortt is a bigot or the usual gay comments from the peanut gallery.... shame on you! Those comments are just as untrue and inappropriate as they've ever been on here. But we grin and bare it and realize any such past comments would never be posted if serious. Or those who make such comments can look up the definition of "Psychological transference." I personally think a "Thank You" is far more appropriate for all the time, effort, and changes Michael is trying to implement! When the word went out that races were wanted at the Fun Rally, the first thing I recall he did was make contact and plans for such. It's ridiculous and unacceptable for anyone to be rude and insulting to those doing their best to help us have a better organization. I recently renewed my membership which I feel would be great if it was reduced a bit in cost (as it used to be) as I'd like the option to get only the "Profiles Magazine" in print form.. the Newsletter is perfectly suited for an online reference... (again, my opinion) and which I seem to hear would save the club something like $26,000 a year. On our new POCA Website I am able to look up old articles in Profiles... especially enjoy the ease of being able to find ones about my car and me, issue 2010 #1, and my SSCC synopsis, in 2000, #3. That's a whole lot easier than searching my own computer room and closet filled with years old multi-curricular lesson plans and old publications from POCA, and three other car clubs. I really love the idea of these publications being available ON LINE; it is quite modern and convenient. Insofar as the survey regarding POCA's Fun Rally...As always there were goods and not so goods. The good, naturally, is getting to see and socialize with old friends and meet new ones. The bad is that the Plaza remains to be, not the most appealing of choices. I don't know about the new furnishings but I do know that the entire floor where the hospitality and banquet was held was covered in sheets over the construction and warnings of potential injury....I kind of felt early on that it'd be a good idea, as a few others, to opt to stay at the Golden Nugget. It's right across the street and very nice! As usual though, at our event, the hospitality room opportunity with all the Club stores was and is always great. The sessions, especially Scott Mead's photography session was more than excellent. The run to Mt. Charles was beautiful. I didn't have a car there so I was so grateful to Lori Drew who hooked me up with a ride with a super nice fellow from PCNC, Bayani; many thanks Bayani! The banquet food was something I'm unable to compare easily as to the awfulness compared to any past Fun Rally. The Plaza buffets were generally decent in the past, even used to get a bottle of red and white wine on each table, but something definitely went amiss this year. As I was seated at a table with Terry Himes (Mars' space scientist) and friends, the best way to describe the salmon was freeze dried and suitable (almost) as astronaut food. The water was undrinkable, maybe tainted with some alien creatures, toxic chemicals, or poisoned purposefully so people would buy liquor during the banquet. Dessert, can't comment, didn't try. The raffle... well that's yet another story! I've been the one in the past who once had the job of recruiting prizes for months, organizing the displays, getting everything to Vegas, and then announcing the prizes at the dinner and I vividly recall being reprimanded for how long it took to disseminate prizes at the banquet ... BUT...in good fairness to me, i took a fraction of what happened this year.. which was in ponderous tortoise-like, multi-hours long, motion, so much to the fact that I literally made up for the previous two nights of lost sleep. I mean really, for hundreds of prizes from a few really nice car related, down to insignificant, and each prize announced in humorous but mostly painful detail ... down to a slew of t-shirts, one by one... and then waiting for the comatose winner to notice or be nudged awake that he or she'd won and then have to walk what seemed like 3 blocks to the podium to claim the prize... Good Lord! And I don't blame the presenter as I know what a difficult and commendable job this is.. it's the SYSTEM, not the person! I know many of you like to poke fun at the Corvette Clan but .... the way they've done raffles, at least the National ones, is to post a list of winning tickets #s and during the event, people go over periodically to see if they won, and get the prize from those in charge. Or those so inclined can stay at the prize area and watch the tickets being drawn. All the contributors are posted in advance and the donors are thanked and acknowledged on banners, signs, visuals, business cards, etc. There's always music and dancing and some sort of entertainment. We used to have music, karaoke, and entertainment. What happened??? So in conclusion, I like both the old (forum) and the new (POCA) and hope that people will be more cordial and appreciative of the efforts of Michael and those who work for us. Again much gratitude to Kurt and all involved for the Forum being alive and well. I am not in favor of the fact though that I very recently got a malicious malware bug that caused me to wipe out my entire computer... and start over, not saying it was from here.. BUT I've never had that problem before and I did have an excellent Internet security program installed. So I write with hopes that the risks are not found here! Can't leave without a big hello to Nathan of the North. Always great to hear from you and see your uplifting greetings. And to Bob Levitt...hope you remember me as I was out there on the Santa Monica pier to take pictures of you and your son upon your take off for the Gumball Cross Country race way back when. Still have them saved somewhere and they were on my former POCA album. Btw where are those albums? OK.... off and running and just might see lots of you at Pantera Palooza! Cheerio, Laurie

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POCA Membership Dues Analysis
by Rod Kunishige 03 Jun '16

03 Jun '16

It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace period without notice. The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10 increased rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first place. The return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven. Simply, use the money to pay for our publication costs. PROPOSED: $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund the $62.52 publication estimate – per MS. Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year. Carrying 853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year. Divide that into 100,000 means funding covers 46.5 YEARS. OPINION: I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4 vote but there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has proposed. Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing the actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions for improvement. (Information taken from the President’s Blog.) It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace period without notice. The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10 increased rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first place. The return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven. Simply, use the money to pay for our publication costs. PROPOSED: $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund the $62.52 publication estimate per MS. Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year. Carrying 853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year. Divide that into 100,000 means funding covers 46.5 YEARS. OPINION: I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4 vote but there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has proposed. Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing the actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions for improvement. (Information taken from the Presidents Blog.)

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Thank you
by Joel Montero 02 Jun '16

02 Jun '16

I'm not sure who is responsible for recreating this Pantera List Serve, but whoever you are, THANK YOU! Joel I'm not sure who is responsible for recreating this Pantera List Serve, but whoever you are, THANK YOU!A Joel

5 5

Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side?
by Tomas Gunnarsson 01 Jun '16

01 Jun '16

You have me a little confused here with "RH thread on the right/driver side and a LH thread on the left/pax side# :-D Tomas <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-----> From: Guido deTomaso [guido_detomaso(a)prodigy.net] Sent: 29/5/2016 10:38:21 PM To: guson@home.se;MikeLDrew@aol.com Cc: detomaso(a)detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side? "I'm pretty sure it's the other way around. Left side of the car, RH thread." Don't go all Jack DeRyke on me, lest I put a video on YouTube, I've got the VW hardware at my fingertips. Visualize the front wheel bearing following the wheel on the left side of the car viewed from the rear, a LH thread tightens if the nut follows the wheel and spinning bearing. This would only come into play only after successive prior failures, that was the analogy to the axle nut. Similarly I believe the handed Pantera axle nut would only serve a purpose if the spline were to fail and the drive flange spun about the axle, that would tighten the axle nut on both sides if there's a RH thread on the right/driver side and a LH thread on the left/pax side. I do not believe there is any self-tightening effect at work on the Pantera axle nut(s), but am open to other ideas ( not momentum ) Thanks, GD _____ From: Tomas Gunnarsson <guson(a)home.se> To: MikeLDrew(a)aol.com Cc: detomaso(a)detomasolist.com Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2016 3:01 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side? I should have said: My bad, I didn't follow the thread from the start and replied to an off subject piece of info. Tomas I was replying to Guidos post that read: Witness every VW and Porsche I'm aware of, they put a LH thread on the left side front spindle. I was not clear on that I admit. Tomas <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-----> From: Mike Drew [ MikeLDrew(a)aol.com <mailto:MikeLDrew@aol.com> ] Sent: 28/5/2016 11:23:00 PM To: guson(a)home.se <mailto:guson@home.se> Cc: forestg(a)att.net <mailto:forestg@att.net> ; detomaso(a)detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@detomasolist.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side? Tomas, Uh, no, we're not. Remember I'm the guy that started the thread by asking the question in the first place. We are talking about the axles. There are no axles in the front, only spindles. :) Mike Sent from my iPhone On May 28, 2016, at 13:23, "Tomas Gunnarsson" < guson(a)home.se <mailto:guson@home.se> > wrote: > We're talking about front wheel bearing nuts here. > > Tomas > <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-----> > From: Forest Goodhart [ forestg(a)att.net <mailto:forestg@att.net> ] > Sent: 28/5/2016 3:34:04 AM > To: detomaso(a)detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@detomasolist.com> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side? > I do not think it matters which side the axle is on. I've worked on > cars with two lefts and also cars with two rights. Neither ever had any > issue with axle nuts coming loose, they are torqued to 360 lb/ft plus > or minus > From: Mike Drew via DeTomaso < detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> > > To: Tomas Gunnarsson < guson(a)home.se <mailto:guson@home.se> > > Cc: "< detomaso(a)detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@detomasolist.com> >" < detomaso(a)detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@detomasolist.com> > > Sent: Friday, May 27, 2016 5:36 PM > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side? > Tomas, > You have to remove the driveshaft to see the nut.... > Mike > Sent from my iPhone > On May 27, 2016, at 15:51, "Tomas Gunnarsson" <[1] guson(a)home.se <mailto:guson@home.se> > > wrote: > I'll check next time my car has its wheels off! :-D > Tomas > <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-----> > From: Mike Drew [[2] MikeLDrew(a)aol.com <mailto:MikeLDrew@aol.com> ] > Sent: 27/5/2016 9:43:52 PM > To: [3] guson(a)home.se <mailto:guson@home.se> > Cc: [4] guido_detomaso(a)prodigy.net <mailto:guido_detomaso@prodigy.net> ;[5] detomaso(a)detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@detomasolist.com> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side? > Tomas, > I started this thread and the overwhelming response is that the > original setup had the LH threads on the LH side of the car. I don't > really want to know why, just wanted to know what was done > originally.... > Cheers! > Mike > Sent from my iPad >> On May 27, 2016, at 12:35 PM, Tomas Gunnarsson <[6] guson(a)home.se <mailto:guson@home.se> > > wrote: >> >> I'm pretty sure it's the other way around. Left side of the car, RH >> thread. >> >> Tomas >> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-----> >> From: Guido deTomaso [[7] guido_detomaso(a)prodigy.net <mailto:guido_detomaso@prodigy.net> ] >> Sent: 27/5/2016 8:23:20 PM >> To: > > [8] b.hower3400(a)yahoo.com <mailto:b.hower3400@yahoo.com> ;[9] vinh.d.ly(a)gmail.com <mailto:vinh.d.ly@gmail.com> ;[10] larrys@panteraparts <mailto:larrys@panteraparts> > .com >> Cc: [11] MikeLDrew(a)aol.com <mailto:MikeLDrew@aol.com> ;[12] detomaso(a)detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@detomasolist.com> >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side? >> Late to this party. >> Pretty hard to imagine skidding to a stop and having the left side > lug >> nuts spin off because of angular momentum, the hub stopped but the > lugs >> kept spinning. Similarly hard to imagine the lightweight Pantera > axle >> nut continuing to spin even if not tightened since it has a > friction >> feature. Any fastener tightened at all is going to produce enough >> friction to be impervious to angular momentum / angular velocity >> changes. >> The self-tightening phenomenon is somewhat easy to predict where >> there's a rotating load and a thread. A bicycle pedal is a good >> example, if you can visualize the weight of the rider's foot going >> around a loose thread, visualize the male thread of the pedal shaft >> "walking" around the female thread of the crank arm, you may be > able > to >> predict which side will be self-tightening with a LH thread. >> Similarly British car knock off caps, if the hubs are put on the > wrong >> side of the car, or the car is towed backwards, good chance the > wheels >> will fall off, hasn't happened to me but I've heard several 1st > person >> accounts. Again if you look at the weight of the car, visualize it >> walking around the thread, you can predict that the right side of > the >> car will get the LH thread. ( Hit the top of the knock off toward > the >> rear of the car to tighten ). LH threaded lug nuts, still used I >> believe on heavy-duty trucks, same principle. >> Other times reverse thread seems to be there only in case of >> catastrophe: Witness every VW and Porsche I'm aware of, they put a > LH >> thread on the left side front spindle. Now this has no weight on > the >> thread ... in order for the nut to want to turn, first the outside >> bearing would have to start spinning on the spindle, then the > d-shape >> washer would have to fail, and the cotter pin or clamping feature > would >> have to fail, ONLY THEN the reverse thread would save the day, > until >> the heat build up snaps the spindle anyway. >> On the Pantera ... I don't see any path for the weight of the car > to >> walk around the thread of the axle nut ... maybe it's there but I > can't >> see it. However if under acceleration the flange spline failed, the >> nuts would tighten if they followed the flange, yes ? Perhaps this > is >> the only reason for the handed thread in this application. >> Or so it seems to me, I could be wrong. >> GD >> From: B Hower via DeTomaso <[13] detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> > >> To: Vinh Ly <[14] vinh.d.ly(a)gmail.com <mailto:vinh.d.ly@gmail.com> >; Larry Stock >> <[15] larrys(a)panteraparts.com <mailto:larrys@panteraparts.com> > >> Cc: Mike Drew <[16] MikeLDrew(a)aol.com <mailto:MikeLDrew@aol.com> >; > "[17] detomaso(a)detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@detomasolist.com> " >> <[18] detomaso(a)detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@detomasolist.com> > >> Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 12:44 PM >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side? >> You would probably never notice a problem. >> Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not >> be >> ! ) >> __________________________________________________________________ >> From: Vinh Ly <[19]<a href="mailto:vinh.d.ly@gmail.com" ymailto="m<br><br>=== message truncated ===</font></td></tr></table></div> You have me a little confused here with "RH thread on the right/driver side and a LH thread on the left/pax side# :-D Tomas <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-----> From: Guido deTomaso [guido_detomaso(a)prodigy.net] Sent: 29/5/2016 10:38:21 PM To: guson@home.se;MikeLDrew@aol.com Cc: detomaso(a)detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side? "I'm pretty sure it's the other way around. Left side of the car, RH thread." Don't go all Jack DeRyke on me, lest I put a video on YouTube, I've got the VW hardware at my fingertips. Visualize the front wheel bearing following the wheel on the left side of the car viewed from the rear, a LH thread tightens if the nut follows the wheel and spinning bearing. This would only come into play only after successive prior failures, that was the analogy to the axle nut. Similarly I believe the handed Pantera axle nut would only serve a purpose if the spline were to fail and the drive flange spun about the axle, that would tighten the axle nut on both sides if there's a RH thread on the right/driver side and a LH thread on the left/pax side. I do not believe there is any self-tightening effect at work on the Pantera axle nut(s), but am open to other ideas ( not momentum ) Thanks, GD __________________________________________________________________ From: Tomas Gunnarsson <guson(a)home.se> To: MikeLDrew(a)aol.com Cc: detomaso(a)detomasolist.com Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2016 3:01 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side? I should have said: My bad, I didn't follow the thread from the start and replied to an off subject piece of info. Tomas I was replying to Guidos post that read: Witness every VW and Porsche I'm aware of, they put a LH thread on the left side front spindle. I was not clear on that I admit. Tomas <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-----> From: Mike Drew [[1]MikeLDrew(a)aol.com] Sent: 28/5/2016 11:23:00 PM To: [2]guson(a)home.se Cc: [3]forestg@att.net;[4]detomaso@detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side? Tomas, Uh, no, we're not. Remember I'm the guy that started the thread by asking the question in the first place. We are talking about the axles. There are no axles in the front, only spindles. :) Mike Sent from my iPhone On May 28, 2016, at 13:23, "Tomas Gunnarsson" <[5]guson(a)home.se> wrote: > We're talking about front wheel bearing nuts here. > > Tomas > <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-----> > From: Forest Goodhart [[6]forestg(a)att.net] > Sent: 28/5/2016 3:34:04 AM > To: [7]detomaso(a)detomasolist.com > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side? > I do not think it matters which side the axle is on. I've worked on > cars with two lefts and also cars with two rights. Neither ever had any > issue with axle nuts coming loose, they are torqued to 360 lb/ft plus > or minus > From: Mike Drew via DeTomaso <[8]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> > To: Tomas Gunnarsson <[9]guson(a)home.se> > Cc: "<[10]detomaso(a)detomasolist.com>" <[11]detomaso(a)detomasolist.com> > Sent: Friday, May 27, 2016 5:36 PM > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side? > Tomas, > You have to remove the driveshaft to see the nut.... > Mike > Sent from my iPhone > On May 27, 2016, at 15:51, "Tomas Gunnarsson" <[1][12]guson(a)home.se> > wrote: > I'll check next time my car has its wheels off! :-D > Tomas > <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-----> > From: Mike Drew [[2][13]MikeLDrew(a)aol.com] > Sent: 27/5/2016 9:43:52 PM > To: [3][14]guson(a)home.se > Cc: [4][15]guido_detomaso@prodigy.net;[5][16]detomaso@detomasolist.com > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side? > Tomas, > I started this thread and the overwhelming response is that the > original setup had the LH threads on the LH side of the car. I don't > really want to know why, just wanted to know what was done > originally.... > Cheers! > Mike > Sent from my iPad >> On May 27, 2016, at 12:35 PM, Tomas Gunnarsson <[6][17]guson(a)home.se> > wrote: >> >> I'm pretty sure it's the other way around. Left side of the car, RH >> thread. >> >> Tomas >> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-----> >> From: Guido deTomaso [[7][18]guido_detomaso(a)prodigy.net] >> Sent: 27/5/2016 8:23:20 PM >> To: > > [8][19]b.hower3400@yahoo.com;[9][20]vinh.d.ly@gmail.com;[10][21]larrys@ panteraparts > .com >> Cc: [11][22]MikeLDrew@aol.com;[12][23]detomaso@detomasolist.com >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side? >> Late to this party. >> Pretty hard to imagine skidding to a stop and having the left side > lug >> nuts spin off because of angular momentum, the hub stopped but the > lugs >> kept spinning. Similarly hard to imagine the lightweight Pantera > axle >> nut continuing to spin even if not tightened since it has a > friction >> feature. Any fastener tightened at all is going to produce enough >> friction to be impervious to angular momentum / angular velocity >> changes. >> The self-tightening phenomenon is somewhat easy to predict where >> there's a rotating load and a thread. A bicycle pedal is a good >> example, if you can visualize the weight of the rider's foot going >> around a loose thread, visualize the male thread of the pedal shaft >> "walking" around the female thread of the crank arm, you may be > able > to >> predict which side will be self-tightening with a LH thread. >> Similarly British car knock off caps, if the hubs are put on the > wrong >> side of the car, or the car is towed backwards, good chance the > wheels >> will fall off, hasn't happened to me but I've heard several 1st > person >> accounts. Again if you look at the weight of the car, visualize it >> walking around the thread, you can predict that the right side of > the >> car will get the LH thread. ( Hit the top of the knock off toward > the >> rear of the car to tighten ). LH threaded lug nuts, still used I >> believe on heavy-duty trucks, same principle. >> Other times reverse thread seems to be there only in case of >> catastrophe: Witness every VW and Porsche I'm aware of, they put a > LH >> thread on the left side front spindle. Now this has no weight on > the >> thread ... in order for the nut to want to turn, first the outside >> bearing would have to start spinning on the spindle, then the > d-shape >> washer would have to fail, and the cotter pin or clamping feature > would >> have to fail, ONLY THEN the reverse thread would save the day, > until >> the heat build up snaps the spindle anyway. >> On the Pantera ... I don't see any path for the weight of the car > to >> walk around the thread of the axle nut ... maybe it's there but I > can't >> see it. However if under acceleration the flange spline failed, the >> nuts would tighten if they followed the flange, yes ? Perhaps this > is >> the only reason for the handed thread in this application. >> Or so it seems to me, I could be wrong. >> GD >> From: B Hower via DeTomaso <[13][24]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> >> To: Vinh Ly <[14][25]vinh.d.ly(a)gmail.com>; Larry Stock >> <[15][26]larrys(a)panteraparts.com> >> Cc: Mike Drew <[16][27]MikeLDrew(a)aol.com>; > "[17][28]detomaso(a)detomasolist.com" >> <[18][29]detomaso(a)detomasolist.com> >> Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 12:44 PM >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side? >> You would probably never notice a problem. >> Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not >> be >> ! ) >> __________________________________________________________________ >> From: Vinh Ly <[19]<a href="mailto:vinh.d.ly@gmail.com" ymailto="m<br><br>=== message truncated ===</font></td></tr></table></div> References 1. mailto:MikeLDrew@aol.com 2. mailto:guson@home.se 3. mailto:forestg@att.net 4. mailto:detomaso@detomasolist.com 5. mailto:guson@home.se 6. mailto:forestg@att.net 7. mailto:detomaso@detomasolist.com 8. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 9. mailto:guson@home.se 10. mailto:detomaso@detomasolist.com 11. mailto:detomaso@detomasolist.com 12. mailto:guson@home.se 13. mailto:MikeLDrew@aol.com 14. mailto:guson@home.se 15. mailto:guido_detomaso@prodigy.net 16. mailto:detomaso@detomasolist.com 17. mailto:guson@home.se 18. mailto:guido_detomaso@prodigy.net 19. mailto:b.hower3400@yahoo.com 20. mailto:vinh.d.ly@gmail.com 21. mailto:larrys@panteraparts 22. mailto:MikeLDrew@aol.com 23. mailto:detomaso@detomasolist.com 24. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 25. mailto:vinh.d.ly@gmail.com 26. mailto:larrys@panteraparts.com 27. mailto:MikeLDrew@aol.com 28. mailto:detomaso@detomasolist.com 29. mailto:detomaso@detomasolist.com

3 2

Pantera Palooza 2016 June 12!
by scottcouchman＠yahoo.com 01 Jun '16

01 Jun '16

Pantera Palooza 2016, the premier one-day deTomaso event of the year is Sunday, June 12th at Mason Regional Park in Irvine, California. Join us for a day in the sun, just a few short miles from the Pacific Ocean on the big grass lawn for a great day of cars, music, deTomaso book signing, the POCA Store, jewelry (yes ladies!) and much more! Registration is way ahead of last year and on pace for approximately 50 Panteras along with 4 Mangustas celebrating the 50th anniversary of the 'Goose! Pre-registration discounts for show entry and hot Mexican buffet continue through Memorial Day weekend. Free Coffee & Donuts, water, sodas and snacks for all, compliments of Team Pantera OC. If your Pantera can't make the Palooza this year, stop-by and enjoy the epic display of cars and join us for a picnic lunch on the lawn amongst these great cars. Spectators are free (OC Parks charges $5/carload to enter the park). Car Show Entry and Lunch Reservation form and more info is available at ocpanteras.com. Look forward to seeing you in two weeks at the Palooza!

5 6

Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis
by Christopher Kimball 01 Jun '16

01 Jun '16

Although I agree online issues of the newsletter should be available, even the norm, I really prefer getting printed copies. I pass them along to a mechanic friend of mine. I know if I had to print them out myself I simply wouldn't do it. Thanks to the POCA board and leadership for helping to keep the club moving forward! Sincerely, Chris Sent from my Windows Phone ________________________________ From: Effie Richards<mailto:erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com> Sent: ‎5/‎29/‎2016 9:44 PM To: fastgrandma<mailto:fastgrandma@aol.com> Cc: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis My husband, for one, does not "do" computer, which is why I become his voice! I would of course print for him, but what about when I'm not around any longer? Things happen... Sent from Effie's iPad > On May 29, 2016, at 7:19 PM, fastgrandma <fastgrandma(a)aol.com> wrote: > > You have to realize that not everyone has a computer and some that do absolutely do not want their Newsletter online. The Newsletter has been sent as a pdf to the Eruopeans and members in Canada for some time now but even there, a couple want paper copies and that should be their absolute right since that is the one thing that the club does for its members: the publications! > > At the Rally we heard from several who had various reasons for wanting printed publications only and it would be very wrong to deny that. Maybe those 'other' clubs might do that but that is a good reason to not belong to them. > > Judy > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Pantdino via DeTomaso <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> > To: erichards <erichards(a)zogob.sdcoxmail.com>; marshallgsmith <marshallgsmith(a)sbcglobal.net> > Cc: detomaso <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> > Sent: Sun, May 29, 2016 5:30 pm > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis > > I thought the newsletter was going to be online only (hence will be > color for free) , while only the Profiles will on paper and mailed. > No? > > > > I don't see why anyone would not renew their membership-- with all the > old publications online and an improved website the club has more to > offer than ever. > > > > Jim Oddie > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Effie Richards <erichards(a)zogob.sdcoxmail.com> > To: marshallgsmith <marshallgsmith(a)sbcglobal.net> > Cc: detomaso <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> > Sent: Sun, May 29, 2016 5:08 pm > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis > Well said Marshall! Many Kudos to Jack DeRyke from me too! We love your > work! > Sent from Effie's iPad > > On May 29, 2016, at 4:05 PM, marshallgsmith > <[1]marshallgsmith(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote: > > > > Now wait a minute Dick, what you write here is WAY too level-headed > for > > this forum! > > > > Who is this really?? > > > > All joking aside, I obtain multiple bids for every one of a 'number' > of > > projects that I need to conduct every year. If I found a company that > > could save me $8,000 a year on a particular project, I would have > felt > > like I won the lottery! > > > > Sure, every once in a while the new company who submitted the lowest > > bid does not do as good of a job of the old one but when that > happens, > > I go back to the next bid which sometimes was the same company I used > > previously and all is back to normal. > > > > $8,000 a year is an awful lot of money just to stay with the company > > that you have and had comfort with. > > > > The statement of adding color to the newsletter would of course cost > a > > bit more money but when you consider that we would be saving $8,000 > off > > the top, we have a touch more money to play with and the savings > would > > still be very sizable. > > > > Plus, if any car club newsletter in this country is worthy of several > > color pages, it absolutely would be Jack DeRyke's!! This club is and > > will be indebted to you forever Jack! Thanks for the wonderful work > you > > do to keep our colorful jalopies on the road!! > > > > Marshall > > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone > > > > -------- Original message -------- > > From: Dick Koch <[2]redcatman74(a)gmail.com> > > Date: 05/29/2016 9:57 AM (GMT-08:00) > > To: Ed Mendez <[3]edducati(a)mac.com> > > Cc: [4]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis > > Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and > > non-productive > > comments that have been made in recent weeks, many very personal and > > vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the club. > > It is good to have different points of view on club business. But to > > present one's point of view in a negative and personal manner, does > > nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and > their > > persona in the eyes of others. > > From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many of > > the > > detractors do not have much experience in running a business. And > make > > no > > mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To thrive, this > > club > > must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance it's value > add > > to > > it's customers. > > As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the > > newsletter, > > for the board to not look for less expensive options, as with any > other > > expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible. > > I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would have > > folks > > want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive and > > provides > > less for much more money. We have enough cronyism in our government. > > Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has been a reason for > > keeping a more expensive service that provides less. > > I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail the > > newsletter, that can be printed by anyone that is not to lazy to take > > 3 > > minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative. > > As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one person. > > Each > > person on the board has a say, with a majority required to decide on > > every > > issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just that, > pointless. > > Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member of > > the > > board to the other members of the board, showing how approving that > > item > > would benefit the club member's experience, with the underlying > > financial > > implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs long term > > financial > > health. > > Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a > > constructive > > manner, with negative comments of a personal nature irrelevant and > > therefore non-constructive. > > I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and to > > think > > they are doing their job for free. What a deal... > > By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their > > comments, > > take it out on me. I deserve it for letting 6831 sit idle with a > blown > > header gasket for years. > > Peace, fellow "cat" owners. > > Dick Koch - Atlanta > > Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky > > enough > > to be on the sunny side of the grass. > >> On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez" <[5]edducati(a)mac.com> wrote: > >> See below. > >> > >>> On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige <[6]rkunishige(a)hotmail.com> > > wrote: > >>> > >>> It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace > > period > >>> without notice. > >> > >> False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning at > > 30 > >> days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club, > Ferrari > > club, > >> Porsche club, they all have similar rules. > >>> > >>> The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10 increased > >>> rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first place. > > The > >>> return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven. Simply, > > use > >>> the money to pay for our publication costs. > >> False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority > > chapter > >> presidents. > >> > >>> PROPOSED: $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund the > > $62.52 > >>> publication estimate per MS. > >> > >> That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive > quotes > > for > >> printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that is $8000 per > > year > >> cheaper than the one we are currently using. > >>> > >>> Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year. > > Carrying > >>> 853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year. Divide that into > > 100,000 > >>> means funding covers 46.5 YEARS. > >> False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve in > > the > >> bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in reserve. > > You > >> can google there income statements. > >> > >> > >>> OPINION: > >>> > >>> I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4 vote > > but > >>> there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has > >>> proposed. Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing the > >>> actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions for > >> > >> False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things we > > have > >> coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in fact > > there > >> very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best interest of the > > club > >> > >> This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and > > should > >> not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look bad. If > you > > have > >> an issue talk with someone about your concern, preferably your > > chapter > >> president, they are your representative as in any organization. It's > > very > >> easy to simply pick up the phone instead of using this email list as > > a > >> podium for your disdain of MS. It's obvious, we get it. Please take > > it > >> offline. > >> > >> If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and > > many > >> others before me, and run for office. > >> > >> Kind regards > >> > >>> (Information taken from the Presidents Blog.) > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> > >>> > >>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > >>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > >>> DeTomaso mailing list > >>> [7]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > >>> [8]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > >>> > >>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, > > etc.) > >> use the links above. > >>> > >>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward > > any > >> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the > > list. > >> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or > > approve > >> the archiving of list messages. > >> _______________________________________________ > >> > >> > >> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > >> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > >> DeTomaso mailing list > >> [9]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > >> [10]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > >> > >> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, > etc.) > > use > >> the links above. > >> > >> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward > > any > >> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the > > list. > >> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or > > approve > >> the archiving of list messages. > > Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and > > non-productive comments that have been made in recent weeks, many > > very > > personal and vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the club. > > It is good to have different points of view on club business. But to > > present one's point of view in a negative and personalA manner, > > does > > nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and > > their > > persona in the eyes of others. > > From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many > > of > > the detractors do not have much experience in running a business. > > And > > make no mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To > > thrive, > > this club must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance > > it's > > value add to it's customers. > > As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the > > newsletter, for the board to not look for less expensive options, as > > with any other expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible. > > I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would have > > folks want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive > > and > > provides less for much more money.A We have enough cronyism in our > > government. Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has been > > a > > reason for keeping a more expensive service that provides less. > > I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail the > > newsletter, that can be printed by anyoneA that is not to lazy to > > take > > 3 minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative. > > As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one person.A > > Each person on the board has a say, with a majority required to > > decide > > on every issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just > > that, > > pointless. > > Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member of > > the board to the other members of the board, showing how approving > > that > > item would benefit the club member's experience, with the underlying > > financial implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs long > > term financial health. > > Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a > > constructive manner, with negative comments of a personal nature > > irrelevant and therefore non-constructive. > > I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and to > > think they are doing their job for free. What a deal... > > By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their > > comments, take it out on me.A I deserve it for letting 6831 sit > > idle > > with a blown header gasket for years. > > Peace, fellow "cat" owners. > > Dick Koch - Atlanta > > Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky > > enough to be on the sunny side of the grass. > >> On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez" <[1][11]edducati(a)mac.com> > wrote: > >> See below. > >> On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige > > <[2][12]rkunishige(a)hotmail.com> > > wrote: > >> > >> A It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace > > period > >> A without notice. > > False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning > > at > > 30 days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club, > > Ferrari club, Porsche club, they all have similar rules. > >> > >> A The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10 > > increased > >> A rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first > > place.A The > >> A return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven.A > > Simply, use > >> A the money to pay for our publication costs. > > False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority > > chapter presidents. > >> A PROPOSED:A $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund > > the > > $62.52 > >> A publication estimate per MS. > > That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive > > quotes for printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that > > is $8000 per year cheaper than the one we are currently using. > >> > >> A Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year.A > > Carrying > >> A 853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year.A Divide that into > > 100,000 > >> A means funding covers 46.5 YEARS. > > False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve > > in > > the bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in > > reserve. You can google there income statements. > >> A OPINION: > >> > >> A I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4 > > vote but > >> A there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has > >> A proposed.A Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing > > the > >> A actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions > > for > > False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things > > we > > have coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in > > fact there very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best > > interest of the club > > This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and > > should not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look > > bad. If you have an issue talk with someone about your concern, > > preferably your chapter president, they are your representative as > > in any organization. It's very easy to simply pick up the phone > > instead of using this email list as a podium for your disdain of > > MS. > > It's obvious, we get it. Please take it offline. > > If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and > > many others before me, and run for office. > > Kind regards > >> A (Information taken from the Presidents Blog.) > >> _______________________________________________ > >> > >> > >> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > >> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > >> DeTomaso mailing list > >> [3][13]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > >> [4][14]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > >> > >> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, > > etc.) use the links above. > >> > >> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to > > forward > > any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of > > the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an > > archive or approve the archiving of list messages. > > _______________________________________________ > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > > DeTomaso mailing list > > [5][15]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > [6][16]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, > > etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward > > any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of > > the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an > > archive or approve the archiving of list messages. > > References > > 1. [17]mailto:edducati@mac.com > > 2. [18]mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com > > 3. [19]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > > 4. [20]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > 5. [21]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > > 6. [22]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > _______________________________________________ > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > > DeTomaso mailing list > > [23]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > [24]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) > > use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward > any > > message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the > > list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an > archive > > or approve the archiving of list messages. > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > > DeTomaso mailing list > > [25]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > [26]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) > use the links above. > > > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward > any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the > list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive > or approve the archiving of list messages. > _______________________________________________ > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > [27]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > [28]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) > use the links above. > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any > message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the > list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive > or approve the archiving of list messages. > > References > > 1. mailto:marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net > 2. mailto:redcatman74@gmail.com > 3. mailto:edducati@mac.com > 4. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com > 5. mailto:edducati@mac.com > 6. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com > 7. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > 8. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > 9. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > 10. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > 11. mailto:edducati@mac.com > 12. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com > 13. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > 14. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > 15. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > 16. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > 17. mailto:edducati@mac.com? > 18. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com? > 19. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? > 20. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > 21. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? > 22. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > 23. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > 24. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > 25. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > 26. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > 27. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > 28. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Although I agree online issues of the newsletter should be available, even the norm, I really prefer getting printed copies. I pass them along to a mechanic friend of mine. I know if I had to print them out myself I simply wouldn't do it. Thanks to the POCA board and leadership for helping to keep the club moving forward! Sincerely, Chris Sent from my Windows Phone __________________________________________________________________ From: [1]Effie Richards Sent: 5/29/2016 9:44 PM To: [2]fastgrandma Cc: [3]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis My husband, for one, does not "do" computer, which is why I become his voice! I would of course print for him, but what about when I'm not around any longer? Things happen... Sent from Effie's iPad > On May 29, 2016, at 7:19 PM, fastgrandma <fastgrandma(a)aol.com> wrote: > > You have to realize that not everyone has a computer and some that do absolutely do not want their Newsletter online. The Newsletter has been sent as a pdf to the Eruopeans and members in Canada for some time now but even there, a couple want paper copies and that should be their absolute right since that is the one thing that the club does for its members: the publications! > > At the Rally we heard from several who had various reasons for wanting printed publications only and it would be very wrong to deny that. Maybe those 'other' clubs might do that but that is a good reason to not belong to them. > > Judy > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Pantdino via DeTomaso <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> > To: erichards <erichards(a)zogob.sdcoxmail.com>; marshallgsmith <marshallgsmith(a)sbcglobal.net> > Cc: detomaso <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> > Sent: Sun, May 29, 2016 5:30 pm > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis > > I thought the newsletter was going to be online only (hence will be > color for free) , while only the Profiles will on paper and mailed. > No? > > > > I don't see why anyone would not renew their membership-- with all the > old publications online and an improved website the club has more to > offer than ever. > > > > Jim Oddie > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Effie Richards <erichards(a)zogob.sdcoxmail.com> > To: marshallgsmith <marshallgsmith(a)sbcglobal.net> > Cc: detomaso <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> > Sent: Sun, May 29, 2016 5:08 pm > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis > Well said Marshall! Many Kudos to Jack DeRyke from me too! We love your > work! > Sent from Effie's iPad > > On May 29, 2016, at 4:05 PM, marshallgsmith > <[1]marshallgsmith(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote: > > > > Now wait a minute Dick, what you write here is WAY too level-headed > for > > this forum! > > > > Who is this really?? > > > > All joking aside, I obtain multiple bids for every one of a 'number' > of > > projects that I need to conduct every year. If I found a company that > > could save me $8,000 a year on a particular project, I would have > felt > > like I won the lottery! > > > > Sure, every once in a while the new company who submitted the lowest > > bid does not do as good of a job of the old one but when that > happens, > > I go back to the next bid which sometimes was the same company I used > > previously and all is back to normal. > > > > $8,000 a year is an awful lot of money just to stay with the company > > that you have and had comfort with. > > > > The statement of adding color to the newsletter would of course cost > a > > bit more money but when you consider that we would be saving $8,000 > off > > the top, we have a touch more money to play with and the savings > would > > still be very sizable. > > > > Plus, if any car club newsletter in this country is worthy of several > > color pages, it absolutely would be Jack DeRyke's!! This club is and > > will be indebted to you forever Jack! Thanks for the wonderful work > you > > do to keep our colorful jalopies on the road!! > > > > Marshall > > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone > > > > -------- Original message -------- > > From: Dick Koch <[2]redcatman74(a)gmail.com> > > Date: 05/29/2016 9:57 AM (GMT-08:00) > > To: Ed Mendez <[3]edducati(a)mac.com> > > Cc: [4]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis > > Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and > > non-productive > > comments that have been made in recent weeks, many very personal and > > vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the club. > > It is good to have different points of view on club business. But to > > present one's point of view in a negative and personal manner, does > > nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and > their > > persona in the eyes of others. > > From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many of > > the > > detractors do not have much experience in running a business. And > make > > no > > mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To thrive, this > > club > > must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance it's value > add > > to > > it's customers. > > As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the > > newsletter, > > for the board to not look for less expensive options, as with any > other > > expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible. > > I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would have > > folks > > want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive and > > provides > > less for much more money. We have enough cronyism in our government. > > Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has been a reason for > > keeping a more expensive service that provides less. > > I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail the > > newsletter, that can be printed by anyone that is not to lazy to take > > 3 > > minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative. > > As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one person. > > Each > > person on the board has a say, with a majority required to decide on > > every > > issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just that, > pointless. > > Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member of > > the > > board to the other members of the board, showing how approving that > > item > > would benefit the club member's experience, with the underlying > > financial > > implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs long term > > financial > > health. > > Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a > > constructive > > manner, with negative comments of a personal nature irrelevant and > > therefore non-constructive. > > I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and to > > think > > they are doing their job for free. What a deal... > > By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their > > comments, > > take it out on me. I deserve it for letting 6831 sit idle with a > blown > > header gasket for years. > > Peace, fellow "cat" owners. > > Dick Koch - Atlanta > > Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky > > enough > > to be on the sunny side of the grass. > >> On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez" <[5]edducati(a)mac.com> wrote: > >> See below. > >> > >>> On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige <[6]rkunishige(a)hotmail.com> > > wrote: > >>> > >>> It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace > > period > >>> without notice. > >> > >> False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning at > > 30 > >> days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club, > Ferrari > > club, > >> Porsche club, they all have similar rules. > >>> > >>> The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10 increased > >>> rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first place. > > The > >>> return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven. Simply, > > use > >>> the money to pay for our publication costs. > >> False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority > > chapter > >> presidents. > >> > >>> PROPOSED: $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund the > > $62.52 > >>> publication estimate per MS. > >> > >> That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive > quotes > > for > >> printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that is $8000 per > > year > >> cheaper than the one we are currently using. > >>> > >>> Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year. > > Carrying > >>> 853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year. Divide that into > > 100,000 > >>> means funding covers 46.5 YEARS. > >> False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve in > > the > >> bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in reserve. > > You > >> can google there income statements. > >> > >> > >>> OPINION: > >>> > >>> I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4 vote > > but > >>> there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has > >>> proposed. Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing the > >>> actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions for > >> > >> False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things we > > have > >> coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in fact > > there > >> very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best interest of the > > club > >> > >> This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and > > should > >> not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look bad. If > you > > have > >> an issue talk with someone about your concern, preferably your > > chapter > >> president, they are your representative as in any organization. It's > > very > >> easy to simply pick up the phone instead of using this email list as > > a > >> podium for your disdain of MS. It's obvious, we get it. Please take > > it > >> offline. > >> > >> If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and > > many > >> others before me, and run for office. > >> > >> Kind regards > >> > >>> (Information taken from the Presidents Blog.) > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> > >>> > >>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > >>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > >>> DeTomaso mailing list > >>> [7]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > >>> [8]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > >>> > >>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, > > etc.) > >> use the links above. > >>> > >>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward > > any > >> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the > > list. > >> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or > > approve > >> the archiving of list messages. > >> _______________________________________________ > >> > >> > >> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > >> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > >> DeTomaso mailing list > >> [9]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > >> [10]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > >> > >> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, > etc.) > > use > >> the links above. > >> > >> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward > > any > >> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the > > list. > >> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or > > approve > >> the archiving of list messages. > > Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and > > non-productive comments that have been made in recent weeks, many > > very > > personal and vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the club. > > It is good to have different points of view on club business. But to > > present one's point of view in a negative and personalA manner, > > does > > nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and > > their > > persona in the eyes of others. > > From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many > > of > > the detractors do not have much experience in running a business. > > And > > make no mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To > > thrive, > > this club must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance > > it's > > value add to it's customers. > > As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the > > newsletter, for the board to not look for less expensive options, as > > with any other expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible. > > I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would have > > folks want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive > > and > > provides less for much more money.A We have enough cronyism in our > > government. Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has been > > a > > reason for keeping a more expensive service that provides less. > > I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail the > > newsletter, that can be printed by anyoneA that is not to lazy to > > take > > 3 minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative. > > As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one person.A > > Each person on the board has a say, with a majority required to > > decide > > on every issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just > > that, > > pointless. > > Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member of > > the board to the other members of the board, showing how approving > > that > > item would benefit the club member's experience, with the underlying > > financial implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs long > > term financial health. > > Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a > > constructive manner, with negative comments of a personal nature > > irrelevant and therefore non-constructive. > > I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and to > > think they are doing their job for free. What a deal... > > By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their > > comments, take it out on me.A I deserve it for letting 6831 sit > > idle > > with a blown header gasket for years. > > Peace, fellow "cat" owners. > > Dick Koch - Atlanta > > Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky > > enough to be on the sunny side of the grass. > >> On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez" <[1][11]edducati(a)mac.com> > wrote: > >> See below. > >> On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige > > <[2][12]rkunishige(a)hotmail.com> > > wrote: > >> > >> A It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace > > period > >> A without notice. > > False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning > > at > > 30 days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club, > > Ferrari club, Porsche club, they all have similar rules. > >> > >> A The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10 > > increased > >> A rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first > > place.A The > >> A return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven.A > > Simply, use > >> A the money to pay for our publication costs. > > False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority > > chapter presidents. > >> A PROPOSED:A $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund > > the > > $62.52 > >> A publication estimate per MS. > > That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive > > quotes for printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that > > is $8000 per year cheaper than the one we are currently using. > >> > >> A Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year.A > > Carrying > >> A 853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year.A Divide that into > > 100,000 > >> A means funding covers 46.5 YEARS. > > False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve > > in > > the bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in > > reserve. You can google there income statements. > >> A OPINION: > >> > >> A I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4 > > vote but > >> A there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has > >> A proposed.A Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing > > the > >> A actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions > > for > > False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things > > we > > have coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in > > fact there very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best > > interest of the club > > This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and > > should not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look > > bad. If you have an issue talk with someone about your concern, > > preferably your chapter president, they are your representative as > > in any organization. It's very easy to simply pick up the phone > > instead of using this email list as a podium for your disdain of > > MS. > > It's obvious, we get it. Please take it offline. > > If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and > > many others before me, and run for office. > > Kind regards > >> A (Information taken from the Presidents Blog.) > >> _______________________________________________ > >> > >> > >> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > >> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > >> DeTomaso mailing list > >> [3][13]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > >> [4][14]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > >> > >> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, > > etc.) use the links above. > >> > >> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to > > forward > > any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of > > the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an > > archive or approve the archiving of list messages. > > _______________________________________________ > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > > DeTomaso mailing list > > [5][15]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > [6][16]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, > > etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward > > any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of > > the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an > > archive or approve the archiving of list messages. > > References > > 1. [17]mailto:edducati@mac.com > > 2. [18]mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com > > 3. [19]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > > 4. [20]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > 5. [21]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > > 6. [22]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > _______________________________________________ > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > > DeTomaso mailing list > > [23]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > [24]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) > > use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward > any > > message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the > > list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an > archive > > or approve the archiving of list messages. > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > > DeTomaso mailing list > > [25]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > > [26]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) > use the links above. > > > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward > any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the > list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive > or approve the archiving of list messages. > _______________________________________________ > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > [27]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > [28]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) > use the links above. > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any > message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the > list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive > or approve the archiving of list messages. > > References > > 1. [4]mailto:marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net > 2. [5]mailto:redcatman74@gmail.com > 3. [6]mailto:edducati@mac.com > 4. [7]mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com > 5. [8]mailto:edducati@mac.com > 6. [9]mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com > 7. [10]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > 8. [11]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > 9. [12]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > 10. [13]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > 11. [14]mailto:edducati@mac.com > 12. [15]mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com > 13. [16]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > 14. [17]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > 15. [18]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > 16. [19]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > 17. [20]mailto:edducati@mac.com? > 18. [21]mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com? > 19. [22]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? > 20. [23]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > 21. [24]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? > 22. [25]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > 23. [26]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > 24. [27]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > 25. [28]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > 26. [29]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > 27. [30]mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com > 28. [31]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > [32]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:erichards@zogob.sdcoxmail.com 2. mailto:fastgrandma@aol.com 3. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 4. mailto:marshallgsmith@sbcglobal.net 5. mailto:redcatman74@gmail.com 6. mailto:edducati@mac.com 7. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 8. mailto:edducati@mac.com 9. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 10. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 11. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 12. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 13. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 14. mailto:edducati@mac.com 15. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com 16. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 17. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 18. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 19. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 20. mailto:edducati@mac.com? 21. mailto:rkunishige@hotmail.com? 22. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 23. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 24. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com? 25. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 26. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 27. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 28. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 29. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 30. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 31. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 32. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.

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Welcome new POCA members!
by audionut＠hushmail.com 31 May '16

31 May '16

(Okay, you knew that was coming) Sent using Hushmail [cid:zyvqekg278ophplz9k214qm5a53hpe] (Okay, you knew that was coming) Sent using Hushmail

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Fw: Create the Future Contest
by Ken Green 30 May '16

30 May '16

This is pretty cool, and one of my clients entered a variable compression ratio (plus a lot more) engine design. Subject: create the future contest Hi people I'd like you all to go the website below and vote for the hyper4 engine in the create the future contest. We'll need at least 150 votes so when done, forward it to your friends. Thnx, Bernie -----Forwarded Message----- >From: Create the Future Contest <createthefuture(a)techbriefs.com> >Sent: May 25, 2016 8:30 PM >To: Bernie Bon <bjbon(a)earthlink.net> >Cc: Create the Future Contest <createthefuture(a)techbriefs.com> >Subject: Your contest entry is qualified > >Dear Bernie, > >Congratulations! Your entry "Hyper4 High Efficiency Engine" has been qualified by the review team as meeting the requirements for the Create the Future Design Contest. >View your submission here: > >http://contest.techbriefs.com/2016/entries/automotive-transportation/6618 > >Voting on entries is now under way, so share this link with colleagues to build your page views and vote totals. The top ten entries receiving the most votes from site registrants will win valuable prizes. >Good luck in the contest! Winners will be announced in September. > >- Contest Administrators This is pretty cool, and one of my clients entered a variable compression ratio (plus a lot more) engine design. Subject: create the future contest Hi people I'd like you all to go the website below and vote for the hyper4 engine in the create the future contest. We'll need at least 150 votes so when done, forward it to your friends. Thnx, Bernie -----Forwarded Message----- >From: Create the Future Contest <createthefuture(a)techbriefs.com> >Sent: May 25, 2016 8:30 PM >To: Bernie Bon <bjbon(a)earthlink.net> >Cc: Create the Future Contest <createthefuture(a)techbriefs.com> >Subject: Your contest entry is qualified > >Dear Bernie, > >Congratulations! Your entry "Hyper4 High Efficiency Engine" has been qualified by the review team as meeting the requirements for the Create the Future Design Contest. >View your submission here: > >http://contest.techbriefs.com/2016/entries/automotive-transportation/6 618 > >Voting on entries is now under way, so share this link with colleagues to build your page views and vote totals. The top ten entries receiving the most votes from site registrants will win valuable prizes. >Good luck in the contest! Winners will be announced in September. > >- Contest Administrators

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